Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Am 2006-11-23 12:06:00, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas: On my Multimedia-station /tmp is a seperated Western Digital Raptor 76 GByte... and my /tmp is arround 40% if I am working. How many of memory do you have in those machine? 8 GByte and if I have more money next month the second 8 GByte. - It is a Dual-Opteron. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On 22.11.06 19:34, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-11-19 20:25:26, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas: I do not separate / from /usr, in many cases even from /boot So 100 Mbyte will not enough in any kind did anyone say I use 100 MB for / with /usr? I just would not split 100MB / from 1.9GB /usr but use 2GB / without separate /usr. if I need to split something somewhere, it's separate /boot for making booting process easier (or even possible) better: /var; ext3; 1 GB /var/log; ext3; 500 MB I don't see any reason to have them separate. let a process running crazzy and filling op your diskspace with tonns of logfiles (debug.log, kern.log and syslog are written parallel) You will be happy, IF you have a seperated log partition! I don't remember that happening to me. I rotate my files daily/weekly (on different machines) and use /var big enough. I mount /tmp on tmpfs (size-limited) and I think it's better to add this space to swap, and use /tmp on tmpfs limited to 1 GB. And what, if the files is bigger as your memory? It would fill up 1GB filesystem the same way independently on filesystem used - tmpfs (with swap big enough) or anything other. Putting 1GB to swap and using 1GB /tmp on swap helps, when there are really temporary files with processes working with them. I'd try to find out who and why needs that big file in /tmp (why not e.g. /var/tmp) Working with files in /tmp is much faster if /tmp is mounted on swap. If that makes your system slower, they probably even don't have to be in /tmp (/tmp means temporary, any data that have to be preserved upon reboot, do NOT belong there). However I haven't seen /tmp used that much for long time. Maybe in some cases... On my Multimedia-station /tmp is a seperated Western Digital Raptor 76 GByte... and my /tmp is arround 40% if I am working. How many of memory do you have in those machine? -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Am 2006-11-19 20:25:26, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas: I do not separate / from /usr, in many cases even from /boot So 100 Mbyte will not enough in any kind better: /var; ext3; 1 GB /var/log; ext3; 500 MB I don't see any reason to have them separate. let a process running crazzy and filling op your diskspace with tonns of logfiles (debug.log, kern.log and syslog are written parallel) You will be happy, IF you have a seperated log partition! I mount /tmp on tmpfs (size-limited) and I think it's better to add this space to swap, and use /tmp on tmpfs limited to 1 GB. And what, if the files is bigger as your memory? However I haven't seen /tmp used that much for long time. Maybe in some cases... On my Multimedia-station /tmp is a seperated Western Digital Raptor 76 GByte... and my /tmp is arround 40% if I am working. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Am 2006-11-20 08:54:46, schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas:
On 19.11.06 15:20, Kent West wrote:
Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
On 19.11.06 16:00, Michelle Konzack wrote:
better: /var; ext3; 1 GB
/var/log; ext3; 500 MB
I don't see any reason to have them separate.
I should write separate from each other
Ahhh and if a process is filling up your /var what do you
think happen to /var/spool/mail, /var/spool/sms or others?
No thanks!
Oh, I know about this bug in mozilla products. And it's one of the most
popular bugs :) I think it was already solved somehow, in newer
mozilla(/firefox) versions.
Not only mozilla! I know more then 200 programs in Debian which do this
and of case, I do not want to have my mutt header_cache in my $HOME
which is a NFS-Mount since then, the performance is gone.
I set ${TMPDIR} to /tmp/${LOGNALE}.XX/ and on my Workstation
my /tmp/${LOGNALE}.XX/header_cache has arround 600 MByte.
Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
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Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Am 2006-11-13 15:04:08, schrieb Samuel Bächler: directory; filesystem; size root; ext3; 100 MB ^^ This was suffisant under Woody, but not more under Sarge You need at least 500 MByte since the kernel put its modules there and if you install a second kernel, you will get the HELL with 100 MByte. /home; ext3; 10 GB TOOO small! swap; SWAP; 1 GB // for swap rule of thumb is twice your ram (2*256) My Workststion has vever used more then 200 MByte Swap over the last 7 years and I use my Machines heavyly! Adding such big SWAP will slowdown the computer significant. /var; ext3; 1 GB better: /var; ext3; 1 GB /var/log; ext3; 500 MB /tmp; ext3; 1 GB Definitivly to small On my Systems I use: /dev/sda1 / 500 MByte /dev/sda2 swap 250 MByte /dev/sda3 /tmp1 MByte /dev/sda5 /usr 4000 MByte /dev/sda6 /var 1000 MByte /dev/sda7 /var/log 500 MByte /dev/sda8 /home rest of diskspace but normaly I have my/home on a NFS-Server (v3) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Am 2006-11-13 05:04:06, schrieb anonymous: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ This is the old version. http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r4/i386/iso-cd/ is the new one for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. You do not need to download the Whole bunch of CD's. The packages on it are sorted by priority and importance. Normal-User should not need more then the first 3-5 CD's if they want/need to install Off-Line. All other CD's are more and more direction documentations and development which Normal-User not need. How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? It depends whether you use a WindowManager only or in conjunction with KDE and/or GNOME. My full blown Workstation (incl. OpenOffice.org in 8 languages) without KDE/GNOME has arround 1,6 GByte. Adding KDE and GNOME plus documentations will increase it to over 4 GByte. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On 19.11.06 16:00, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2006-11-13 15:04:08, schrieb Samuel Bächler: directory; filesystem; size root; ext3; 100 MB ^^ This was suffisant under Woody, but not more under Sarge You need at least 500 MByte since the kernel put its modules there and if you install a second kernel, you will get the HELL with 100 MByte. I do not separate / from /usr, in many cases even from /boot /home; ext3; 10 GB TOOO small! swap; SWAP; 1 GB // for swap rule of thumb is twice your ram (2*256) My Workststion has vever used more then 200 MByte Swap over the last 7 years and I use my Machines heavyly! Adding such big SWAP will slowdown the computer significant. no, it won't. using swap will slow it down, but only if you don't have enough of memory /var; ext3; 1 GB better: /var; ext3; 1 GB /var/log; ext3; 500 MB I don't see any reason to have them separate. /tmp; ext3; 1 GB Definitivly to small I mount /tmp on tmpfs (size-limited) and I think it's better to add this space to swap, and use /tmp on tmpfs limited to 1 GB. However I haven't seen /tmp used that much for long time. Maybe in some cases... -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. REALITY.SYS corrupted. Press any key to reboot Universe. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote: On 19.11.06 16:00, Michelle Konzack wrote: better: /var; ext3; 1 GB /var/log; ext3; 500 MB I don't see any reason to have them separate. Because if some process starts spewing log entries left-and-right, only your /usr/log partition fills up rather than your entire /usr partition. You can also make your /usr partition read-only this way, which can function as another step in security/safety-hardening a system. /tmp; ext3; 1 GB Definitivly to small I mount /tmp on tmpfs (size-limited) and I think it's better to add this space to swap, and use /tmp on tmpfs limited to 1 GB. However I haven't seen /tmp used that much for long time. Maybe in some cases... Seems like if I download an .iso using Firefox to my home dir, it temporarily stores it in /tmp, meaning I have to have enough free space in /tmp to get the full .iso. -- Kent -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
A. First of all you should not call yourself anonymous, tell us your real name. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? As far as I know they include documentation and source code - thats in fact one key-feature of free-software. How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? If you want to have a pretty installation create different partitions. Here is my partition table. I use my system just as a desktop-computer: directory; filesystem; size root; ext3; 100 MB /home; ext3; 10 GB swap; SWAP; 1 GB // for swap rule of thumb is twice your ram (2*256) /var; ext3; 1 GB /tmp; ext3; 1 GB Certainly there are *much* better setups. But at least it works for over one year now. Cheers Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
anonymous schreef: I was planning to download and test install Debian for the first time. However, when I browsed the website below: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? I tried to look up the answers in the online manual, but was unable to find them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, A. It is much better (and simpler) to do a net install. You download just a small CD to begin with the installation and then choose what you want to install. See http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ As soon as the system is working you can add packages as you need them. -- Eeltje -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 05:04:06AM -0800, anonymous wrote: I was planning to download and test install Debian for the first time. However, when I browsed the website below: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? I tried to look up the answers in the online manual, but was unable to find them. Any help would be appreciated. well the source cd's are at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/source/iso-cd/ ... you won't need all 15 cd's by any chance... and the update cd's are for people that already have some older 3.1 cd's lying around, so you won't need them either... but, if you only want to install a single computer and you have a suitable internet connection for it, maybe the netinst image would be better for you, as with that you only download a small image for the base system (112 MB) and then only the packets you really install... as for space requierements: my installations are between 7 and 8 gigabytes for my desktop machines (excluding /home and other large dir's used for storing big things, but including around 1-2 gigs of kernel and other sources in /usr/src. that said, while my desktop machines do not have a full kde or gnome installed (though most of the libs since i use some kde and gnome apps), they also have things like a database- and webserver installed for testing purposes... my mothers machine uses around 5 gigs for a (nearly) complete gnome, some audio apps and some simple games... that said, there are as far as i know, over 2 packages currently in debian, and while you wont be able to install all of them at the same time, you can imagine that the 15 cd's would need quite a lot of disk space if you decompress and install all packages you can install at the same time, though there is litle point in doing that, i think. i hope that helps yours albert - -- Albert Dengg [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBRVh9gCIMiEpzxsFKAQLO0QP+ImGOPwVJAHnocJSaL2eVNj8ayOKvf9py 5ILVTCBhn+CmqrEETTIV3Jm6mpTlGTAzGUsd9JVc16A+gJhth96FQhPO32bU8vpt U7WC+AVNTqOSilg6J7KJ5jF2X0hyJoXOO9GSvNAY0VVl1Q9u8znrzwridftXEmle pBg+PgDOLto= =0+v3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
anonymous wrote: I was planning to download and test install Debian for the first time. However, when I browsed the website below: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. From the FAQ at: http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#which-cd Furthermore, in most cases it is not necessary to download all of the images for your architecture. The packages are sorted by popularity: The first CD/DVD contains the installation system and the most popular packages. The second one contains slightly less popular ones, the third one even less popular ones, etc. You will probably only need the first DVD (or the first two CDs) unless you have very special requirements. (And in case you happen to need a package later on which is not on one of the CDs/DVDs you downloaded, you can always install that package directly from the Internet.) I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? I believe that about the last half are source. How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? A complete install of all packages is impossible. Since Debian gives you choice, you have multiple packages that accomplish the same task, such as an email back-end. These email back-ends would conflict with each other, so you can only install one of them at a time. Etc. However, as mentioned in the FAQ, a fairly complete system can be had by using only the first, and maybe the second CD. Depending on your partitioning scheme and what you install, you can probably have a full-blown workstation on a GB or less. Or it might take 20 GB; just depends on what you want. Shoot for 10GB as a starter, if you have it; if not, use your 1GB and be choosy. I tried to look up the answers in the online manual, but was unable to find them. Any help would be appreciated. It's appreciated that you're willing to do your own research; that's good. Sorry there doesn't seem to be a clear answer to this question. -- Kent West Westing Peacefully http://kentwest.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Samuel Bächler wrote: A. First of all you should not call yourself anonymous, tell us your real name. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? As far as I know they include documentation and source code - thats in fact one key-feature of free-software. That's what I also guessed. However, my real problem is that I would like to first download only the necessary and required CDs excluding those for sources and docs. So, which ones should I download? Strange enough, I did not find any mention of what these CDs contain either on debian.org, installation manual or at any other place on the Internet. It would be much helpful if a list of files for each CD is made available on the website. I prefer to download iso images rather than a network install. I can later use the CDs for quick modifications to the installation rather than using network everytime for this purpose. May be, I also have to install on a machine which does not have access to network. How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? If you want to have a pretty installation create different partitions. Here is my partition table. I use my system just as a desktop-computer: directory; filesystem; size root; ext3; 100 MB /home; ext3; 10 GB swap; SWAP; 1 GB // for swap rule of thumb is twice your ram (2*256) /var; ext3; 1 GB /tmp; ext3; 1 GB Certainly there are *much* better setups. But at least it works for over one year now. I am currently using Slackware. I have experimented with various sorts of partitioning schemes including similar to one given above. Cheers Thanks for your reply. Hopefully, someone can help me figure out how many CDs to download for the binary files excluding sources and docs. Sam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Monday 13 November 2006 18:34, anonymous wrote: I was planning to download and test install Debian for the first time. However, when I browsed the website below: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. Downloading all the CDs would be only feasible if you are never going to be downloading software from the internet or you only wish you use stable software (From the CDs.) But remember that this stable software can also be downloaded. But just in case you can't download software due to the absence of a Network Connection, the CDs would suffice. The Update CDs are usually helpful for updating a machine that already has Debian installed, but doesn't have a network connection. They provide all the required security updates to patch the system. But if your machine has got an Internet connection, the first CD should suffice. It has got KDE + GNOME and all the required utilities to get your system up and running. You may download the CD2 just in case. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? Just Binary Files. Documentation..as in relevant man-pages would be provided. How much would it need for a complete install on a P-IV 2.5GHz with 256 MB RAM? And how much for the disk space? Yeah. That is a fair enough configuration. 256 MB is usually what is recommended as the minimum amount of RAM for running a Graphical User Interface (GUI). For e.g. KDE / GNOME. Free Space...I would keep like 5GB of Free space or generally more than that for / ..cuz I have a bigger HDD. But 5GB should be more or less sufficient. It would be difficult to comment on this one unless you provide the details about your purpose of installing Debian. I tried to look up the answers in the online manual, but was unable to find them. Any help would be appreciated. I don't know, but this has been discussed quite a lotta times in various fora. Users often get stunned by the number of CDs and get confused what to download and what not to. -- Regards, Amit. Remember fellas, what we do in life echoes in eternity! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:23:11PM +0530, Amit Joshi wrote: I don't know, but this has been discussed quite a lotta times in various fora. Users often get stunned by the number of CDs and get confused what to download and what not to. Perhaps http://www.debian.org/distrib/ should explicitly say If you have a decent internet connection, you only need the netinstall CD or the first regular CD. The rest will be downloaded as needed and you won't waste bandwidth downloading packages you won't use. and the netinstall option should be the *first* on the list. Definitely it should be presented before the option of downloading the complete set of CDs or DVDs. THen it should go on to explain: The other CD's are needed only if you are installing on a machine without a decent net connection, and you can install a very respectable Debian system using only the first few CDs, which contain the most popular packages. The later CDs in the set contain less popular packages. That said, a list of which CDs contain which packages would still be useful. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Mon November 13 2006 05:04, anonymous wrote: I was planning to download and test install Debian for the first time. However, when I browsed the website below: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/3.1_r3/i386/iso-cd/ for a download, I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I saw this on the jigdo download page. It lets you search the contents of .jigdo files. Never used it myself though. http://www.us.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#search Jigdo is a great help with debian cd/dvd images. When there is an update to the install disks it will reuse files that haven't changed, get new/changed files and create the .iso for you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:23:11PM +0530, Amit Joshi wrote: I don't know, but this has been discussed quite a lotta times in various fora. Users often get stunned by the number of CDs and get confused what to download and what not to. Perhaps http://www.debian.org/distrib/ should explicitly say If you have a decent internet connection, you only need the netinstall CD or the first regular CD. The rest will be downloaded as needed and you won't waste bandwidth downloading packages you won't use. and the netinstall option should be the *first* on the list. Definitely it should be presented before the option of downloading the complete set of CDs or DVDs. Many thanks for your elaborated reply. I prefer to download the iso image at least for the first time install of the distribution as it would give me a better *feel* about the distribution and the packages included with it. Later, I can manage my machine even when the network is not available. May be installing next release of Debian, I would go for a network install. THen it should go on to explain: The other CD's are needed only if you are installing on a machine without a decent net connection, and you can install a very respectable Debian system using only the first few CDs, which contain the most popular packages. The later CDs in the set contain less popular packages. I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? In fact, I have received conflicting statements to answer this query. Just compare the two statements below. As far as I know they include documentation and source code - thats in fact one key-feature of free-software. Samuel Bächler AND Just Binary Files. Documentation..as in relevant man-pages would be provided.Amit Joshi I am unable to decide which one of these is correct. Having used Redhat and Slackware before which just use 4 CDs each for the boot and packages and a couple more for the documentation and sources, it is difficult for me to take 15 CDs for the installation of packages alone. IF this *is* really the case, there should be some good reason for this: Does debian offer a lot of packages choices? Lot more than does either slackware or redhat so as to need this much number of CDs? OR the .deb packages are not as much efficient and do not use good compression to squeeze them all in a fewer CDs? That said, a list of which CDs contain which packages would still be useful. -- hendrik Again, still awaiting some insight into the above issues.
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 12:23:11PM -0800, anonymous wrote: Many thanks for your elaborated reply. I prefer to download the iso image at least for the first time install of the distribution as it would give me a better *feel* about the distribution and the packages included with it. Later, I can manage my machine even when the network is not available. May be installing next release of Debian, I would go for a network install. If you have reasonable 'Net bandwidth and download one netinst CD, (110 MB or so for Intel i386) from http://cdimage.debian.org and use the package selector, it will give you the chance to select from roughly 18,000 packages and install them from the 'Net. Current stable a.k.a Sarge is 15 CDs for binaries / 15CDs for source 2 DVD's for binary, 3 DVD's for source. If you already _have_ Debian 3.1 installed then you can update to fully current with three CD's. Taking CD and DVD count for current Debian testing a.k.a Etch which should be released as stable within the next month: Three full DVD's / 21 CD's of binaries, three DVD's / 20 CD's of source. ~= 6DVD / 41 CD total I am unable to decide which one of these is correct. Having used Redhat and Slackware before which just use 4 CDs each for the boot and packages and a couple more for the documentation and sources, it is difficult for me to take 15 CDs for the installation of packages alone. IF this *is* really the case, there should be some good reason for this: Does debian offer a lot of packages choices? Lot more than does either slackware or redhat so as to need this much number of CDs? Yes, Debian offers many more packages than almost any other distribution. Chances are, if you can think of a package, then someone has either packaged it already or will package it for Debian if the licence is appropriate. Some very large packages e.g. OpenOffice may contain lots of localisation/help files or other i18n stuff so that you can install the parts you want OR the .deb packages are not as much efficient and do not use good compression to squeeze them all in a fewer CDs? .debs are an archive formed using ar, cpio and .tar files if I remember correctly. HTH, Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Mon November 13 2006 12:23, anonymous wrote: I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? Sorry I can't answer that question well. It's been a while since I looked at the debian install cd's. I can tell you that the packages are placed on the cd's first by need (kernel's etc) and then popularity. When I installed from cd I always grabbed the first two cd's (three if I had time) and that took care of most of what I used. I also had deb sources in my /etc/apt/sources.list and anything I wanted to install that wasn't on my cd's would get installed over the net although in 80% of the cases I already had what was needed. The debian archive has become much larger lately though (something like 18000 packages) so it has become somewhat harder to manage without a network connection. I do my downloading now on one machine and copy the contents of /var/cache/apt/archives to another computer if need be (be sure not to delete deb's after download if you go this route). Having used Redhat and Slackware before which just use 4 CDs each for the boot and packages and a couple more for the documentation and sources, it is difficult for me to take 15 CDs for the installation of packages alone. IF this *is* really the case, there should be some good reason for this: Does debian offer a lot of packages choices? Lot more than does either slackware or redhat so as to need this much number of CDs? I don't use cd's anymore. I have 2 DVD's for sarge and 3 for etch. After the initial install I proceed with X, KDE and Gnome. With sarge I use a handfull of packages from DVD 2. Once I'm done I have 1800 packages installed, so there are a lot of packages in debian, many you will never have time to get too, if they even interest you.. :) OR the .deb packages are not as much efficient and do not use good compression to squeeze them all in a fewer CDs? I'm not sure what .deb packages are made of, but I'm pretty sure they are at least on par with .rpm. That said, a list of which CDs contain which packages would still be useful. It is a good idea. I don't know if it exists (yet). Not a very authoritative answer but that's how I see it.. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
anonymous wrote: I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? In fact, I have received conflicting statements to answer this query. Just compare the two statements below. As far as I know they include documentation and source code - thats in fact one key-feature of free-software. Samuel Bächler AND Just Binary Files. Documentation..as in relevant man-pages would be provided.Amit Joshi I believe Amit was referring to the first two CDs, as just a bit above that quote he says: ... the first CD should suffice. It has got KDE + GNOME and all the required utilities to get your system up and running. You may download the CD2 just in case. Others have also indicated that you probably only need the first one or two CDs for a typical workstation. To see what's on each CD, see http://atterer.net/jigdo/jigdo-search.php?list Having used Redhat and Slackware before which just use 4 CDs each for the boot and packages and a couple more for the documentation and sources, it is difficult for me to take 15 CDs for the installation of packages alone. Generally the source CDs are labeled source, and the package CDs are labeled binary. IF this *is* really the case, there should be some good reason for this: Does debian offer a lot of packages choices? 20,000+, last I heard; I'm unsure how many other distros offer. -- Kent West http://kentwest.blogspot.com http://kentwest.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
[ anonymous seems to be a silly name to be using, but hey... ] anonymous wrote: I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? First of all, ignore the update CDs - they're designed to allow people with earlier CD sets to update their systems to 3.1r3. The 15 CDs for 3.1r3 (binary-i386) are laid out in the following order: 1) First come the installer and installation docs 2) Then the packages needed for the base system (kernel and other essential packages like libc) 3) Then the tasks listed in the installer (mail server, samba, chunks of Gnome, KDE, etc.) 4) Then the remaining packages, simply sorted in order of popularity using popcon results (see popcon.debian.org) I fact, the same ordering is used for all of the variety of CDs and DVDs. A businesscard CD just contains #1 above, a netinst contains #1 and #2. CD #1 of the full set _should_ contain #1, #2 and #3 above. DVD#1 will cover #1, #2, #3 and a large chunk of #4. The packages on these CDs are all binaries and the documentation packages to go with them, mixed by the popcon ordering. As they are ordered by popularity, most people don't need anything like the whole set; the first 5 or so will typically cover any common needs. The sources live separately, on the (cunningly-named!) source CDs and DVDs. If you want to see which packages are contained on each CD, look in the jigdo files that are also shipped from cdimage.debian.org. A jigdo file is basically just an index of the files contained in each iso image, along with some metadata and the checksums of those files. Hope that helps... Steve (debian-cd team, the guy who made the 3.1rX CDs) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] Who needs computer imagery when you've got Brian Blessed? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 12:23:11PM -0800, anonymous wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:23:11PM +0530, Amit Joshi wrote: I don't know, but this has been discussed quite a lotta times in various fora. Users often get stunned by the number of CDs and get confused what to download and what not to. Perhaps http://www.debian.org/distrib/ should explicitly say If you have a decent internet connection, you only need the netinstall CD or the first regular CD. The rest will be downloaded as needed and you won't waste bandwidth downloading packages you won't use. and the netinstall option should be the *first* on the list. Definitely it should be presented before the option of downloading the complete set of CDs or DVDs. Many thanks for your elaborated reply. I prefer to download the iso image at least for the first time install of the distribution as it would give me a better *feel* about the distribution and the packages included with it. Later, I can manage my machine even when the network is not available. May be installing next release of Debian, I would go for a network install. THen it should go on to explain: The other CD's are needed only if you are installing on a machine without a decent net connection, and you can install a very respectable Debian system using only the first few CDs, which contain the most popular packages. The later CDs in the set contain less popular packages. I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? The first ones, anyway, have binary files and documentation. I used CDs back in the days when woody was current. There were seven of them, and they contained binary packages and documentation -- the stuff you need for using Debain, and not the stuff you need for recompiling it all from scratch. I don't think I ever needed past disk 5. As I mentioned, the contents are organised in order of popularity, so unless you like massively unpopular software, you shouln't need more than a few disks. I never use more than the first CD for an installation nowadays. I guess it might be different if I had a machine whose ethernet hardware was not recognised No. Now that I think of it, when that happened to me last January I stuck in a $15 PCI ethernet card and used it instead. Much easier than acquiring 15 CDs. I'm not sure which CDs would contain the sources. I suspect a different set. In fact, I have received conflicting statements to answer this query. Just compare the two statements below. As far as I know they include documentation and source code - thats in fact one key-feature of free-software. Samuel B?chler AND Just Binary Files. Documentation..as in relevant man-pages would be provided.Amit Joshi I am unable to decide which one of these is correct. Having used Redhat and Slackware before which just use 4 CDs each for the boot and packages and a couple more for the documentation and sources, it is difficult for me to take 15 CDs for the installation of packages alone. IF this *is* really the case, there should be some good reason for this: Does debian offer a lot of packages choices? Lot more than does either slackware or redhat so as to need this much number of CDs? I have heard that Debian has the most extensive collection of packages for any Linux in existence. Anyone know if that is true? OR the .deb packages are not as much efficient and do not use good compression to squeeze them all in a fewer CDs? That said, a list of which CDs contain which packages would still be useful. -- hendrik Again, still awaiting some insight into the above issues. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how many CDs for v3.1 r3?
Steve McIntyre wrote: [ anonymous seems to be a silly name to be using, but hey... ] anonymous wrote: I still have not received a definitive reply to my question as yet. Which, to repeat was: I found out that I would need to download 18 CDs: 15 regular and 3 for the update. I would like to know whether all these CDs have binary files or are these also include CDs with sources and documentation. If so, which ones of them? First of all, ignore the update CDs - they're designed to allow people with earlier CD sets to update their systems to 3.1r3. The 15 CDs for 3.1r3 (binary-i386) are laid out in the following order: 1) First come the installer and installation docs 2) Then the packages needed for the base system (kernel and other essential packages like libc) 3) Then the tasks listed in the installer (mail server, samba, chunks of Gnome, KDE, etc.) 4) Then the remaining packages, simply sorted in order of popularity using popcon results (see popcon.debian.org) I fact, the same ordering is used for all of the variety of CDs and DVDs. A businesscard CD just contains #1 above, a netinst contains #1 and #2. CD #1 of the full set _should_ contain #1, #2 and #3 above. DVD#1 will cover #1, #2, #3 and a large chunk of #4. The packages on these CDs are all binaries and the documentation packages to go with them, mixed by the popcon ordering. As they are ordered by popularity, most people don't need anything like the whole set; the first 5 or so will typically cover any common needs. The sources live separately, on the (cunningly-named!) source CDs and DVDs. If you want to see which packages are contained on each CD, look in the jigdo files that are also shipped from cdimage.debian.org. A jigdo file is basically just an index of the files contained in each iso image, along with some metadata and the checksums of those files. This really explains everything. I have already downloaded 4 CDs and I hope this should help me get started with a decent system. Hope that helps... Thanks for the detailed answers to my queries. Steve (debian-cd team, the guy who made the 3.1rX CDs) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] Who needs computer imagery when you've got Brian Blessed? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
