Re: IRC

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 19 May 2021 14:29:15 Dan Ritter wrote:

> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > On 2021-05-19 2:01 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:29:44PM -0400, Polyna-Maude 
Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > >> Now if what you are telling me is :
> > >> That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not
> > >> inside the Debian repository will make my system a
> > >> "frankendebian" and will entitle myself to be called off-topic
> > >> and not worth having my message read, then honestly, I'll simply
> > >> stop reading mailing list and go on my own.
> > >
> > > First of all, this is exactly the kind of attitude I was talking
> > > about, which we see *EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY* from Kali users
> > > especially.  If you behave like this on any of the Debian IRC
> > > channels, you will get no help.
> >
> > I am not a Kali user.
> >
> > > Second, no, not all third-party software makes your system
> > > unsupportable. But *packages* that are installed from other
> > > distributions most certainly do.
> >
> > Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
> > package I save some packaging time and get from another source
> > (Kali, Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
>
> Ahem.
>
> Installing a software thingy in /opt or /usr/local or such
> limits the damage to "it doesn't work, but the system as a whole
> works otherwise".
>
> Adding a package repository or installing a random .deb file off
> the Internet can change arbitrary things in your system, and
> stuff that you didn't think you were changing can suddenly stop
> working. That's extremely difficult to debug.
>
> > So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a
> > custom package but if I build software and put it outside the
> > packaging system, it's supportable ?
>
> Oh, no, no no no.
>
> There is no support for anything!
>
> But all of us volunteers are willing to help out, from each
> according to their abilities, to each according to the random
> factors of the universe.
>
> > And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms
> > used for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I
> > use a repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf
> > who already does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
> > So this is bad and make me loose community support ?
>
> No, because see above: there's no support.
>
> The question is, what can you do to maximize the chances of
> someone helping you?
>
> > I feel like people just feel good telling others "You are wrong" so
> > they can feel "right".
>
> In this case, you are mostly wrong. People are telling you that
> you're doing it the wrong way because their experience (and
> mine) is that they have spent far too much of their own time
> trying to debug problems that they cannot possibly reproduce,
> because you have a version of libinsidious that nobody else has.
>
> -dsr-

+10, or more. Thanks for pointing this out, Dan. Its a point too often 
missed in the usual "I've been insulted" responses seen here.

This is a distraction, but illustrates the problem:

To put the chances of screwing up the system totally by installing 
something packaged to run on a different system to the N! of the number 
of bytes a diff command comparing a properly built package for your fav 
system, with the same package from another system that just happens to 
use the same package manager. Then check to see if the calculator you 
and I can afford says 1.711224524E98 for a 69! entry. Numbers above 69 
need a 3 digit or on to infinity "ee" number.

Plain and simple, you do not put the result of that build, in a directory 
available to the system. You put it in a sandbox in /opt, or /usr/local, 
or in the case of an AppImage, in your home directory. I do it, but I 
don't recommend it, I'd much druther put it in /opt or usr/local.

Take care, stay safe and well everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !

On 2021-05-19 3:28 p.m., Reco wrote:
>   Hi.
> 
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:23:40PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:15:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>> wrote:
>>> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
>>> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
>>> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
>>
>> Because things you pull from git and install in /opt or /usr/local or
>> even $HOME do not interfere with the Debian system.
> 
> It's not true in the case of /usr/local.
> Any library that's installed in /usr/local/lib will be processed by
> ldconfig (see /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf), possibly leading to all
> kinds of mess.
> 

Exactly what I was saying.

>> They don't create dependency issues within the dpkg database, nor do
>> they overwrite essential system libraries or files,
> 
> But to ld.so any library in /usr/local takes priority over /usr, i.e.
> you don't need to overwrite the library to break the binary, providing
> ABI-incompatible library at /usr/local (and running ldconfig) is sufficient.
> And, last time I've looked at $PATH, /usr/local/bin is listed before
> /usr/bin, which can be the source of funny things too.
> 
>> An Ubuntu or Kali package, especially a badly built one, can cause *all*
>> kinds of havoc.  Even some third-party repositories set up by Debian
>> developers have been notorious for causing these kinds of problems in
>> the past -- take a look at the history of the "debian multimedia" package
>> repositories, in particular.
> 
> And this very list contains numerous examples of "I forgot about that
> library that I've installed at /usr/local, but it broke X and Y years
> after".
> 
One reason I prefer Debian over other distribution is all the rules
involved before a package is included into the repository /
distribution. There's common build options imposed that also prevent
some badly coded software to compile, so you get stability, etc.

Also the fact that the package build environment must be self contained
(you can't pull stuff from the web or depend on dependencies outside the
package system) make it even better.

There's software that is for example in Kali or Ubuntu that couldn't be
in Debian because of exactly those reason.
> Package breakages are bad, there's nothing to argue here. But breaking
> ld.so is equally bad.
> 
At least when you build a package, there's some test involved (before
build, for example with the Build-conflict, before install with Break,
etc). And as dpkg keep a list of the files installed, it's somewhat
easier to remove than a package that install itself using a "home brew
script" in /usr/local

> Reco
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:23:40PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:15:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
> > Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
> > package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
> > Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
> 
> Because things you pull from git and install in /opt or /usr/local or
> even $HOME do not interfere with the Debian system.

It's not true in the case of /usr/local.
Any library that's installed in /usr/local/lib will be processed by
ldconfig (see /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf), possibly leading to all
kinds of mess.

> They don't create dependency issues within the dpkg database, nor do
> they overwrite essential system libraries or files,

But to ld.so any library in /usr/local takes priority over /usr, i.e.
you don't need to overwrite the library to break the binary, providing
ABI-incompatible library at /usr/local (and running ldconfig) is sufficient.
And, last time I've looked at $PATH, /usr/local/bin is listed before
/usr/bin, which can be the source of funny things too.

> An Ubuntu or Kali package, especially a badly built one, can cause *all*
> kinds of havoc.  Even some third-party repositories set up by Debian
> developers have been notorious for causing these kinds of problems in
> the past -- take a look at the history of the "debian multimedia" package
> repositories, in particular.

And this very list contains numerous examples of "I forgot about that
library that I've installed at /usr/local, but it broke X and Y years
after".

Package breakages are bad, there's nothing to argue here. But breaking
ld.so is equally bad.

Reco

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !

On 2021-05-19 3:08 p.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 19 mai 21, 13:29:44, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>>
>> If this is not a Debian question then tell my what it is ?
>> "Why did it was chosen to use the -fPIC option in buildflags.mk on the
>> AMD64 platform and will this matter if I take if off because I'm trying
>> to build a software that ain't in the repository" (Because software in
>> the repository got built so will build).
> 
> Build options are likely to be documented in either Debian Policy or 
> Developer's Reference.
> 
Thanks for the answer.
But my question was more of a example than something else.

Anyway, yes Debian has the most wonderful documentation you can find for
ANY opensource project on this planet (and possibly the most wonderful
of all our known universe and one to be discovered).

Thanks

> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:48:47PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > freenode staff:
> > 
> > https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461
> 
> I suppose Marco is a serious guy, but it's hard to take seriously a
> statement that refers (without sourcing) to one's antagonist as "a
> Trumpian wannabe korean royalty bitcoins millionaire."
> 
> I have no idea what that is, and spam isn't mentioned.

Marco takes politics too close to the heart IMO.
It's the links in that article that are worth following.

Reco

Re: IRC

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 19 mai 21, 13:29:44, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
> If this is not a Debian question then tell my what it is ?
> "Why did it was chosen to use the -fPIC option in buildflags.mk on the
> AMD64 platform and will this matter if I take if off because I'm trying
> to build a software that ain't in the repository" (Because software in
> the repository got built so will build).

Build options are likely to be documented in either Debian Policy or 
Developer's Reference.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi

On 2021-05-19 2:24 p.m., Nicolas George wrote:
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside (12021-05-19):
>> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
>> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
>> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
> 
> Because the shortcut that allows you to save some time is (1) a very
> privileged part of the system and (2) full of pitfalls.
> 
> If you install something in /opt and do it incompetently but not too
> much, you cannot break your system. At worst, you break what you were
> installing.
> 
> If you install a package that was done incompetently but not too much,
> through the interactions of dependencies, it can cause all kinds of
> problems. In particular it can cause important security updates to be
> blocked to preserve the possibly unimportant package.
> 

I don't play around with base system packages.

> Oh, and, if you know enough about the packaging system to create your
> own packages without causing this kind of problems, then I do not need
> to explain that to you, you know this already. So yeah.
> 
Thanks for the message but like I already said, the packages I used for
source are mostly because they save me time writing documentation that
already got written.

> Regards,
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-05-19 2:23 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:15:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
>> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
>> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
> 
> Because things you pull from git and install in /opt or /usr/local or
> even $HOME do not interfere with the Debian system.  They don't create
> dependency issues within the dpkg database, nor do they overwrite
> essential system libraries or files, nor do they cause removal of Debian
> packages, etc.
> 
> An Ubuntu or Kali package, especially a badly built one, can cause *all*
> kinds of havoc.  Even some third-party repositories set up by Debian
> developers have been notorious for causing these kinds of problems in
> the past -- take a look at the history of the "debian multimedia" package
> repositories, in particular.
> 
I have the deb-multimedia repository in my system but only in source
form so I can easily get sources of package that ain't in Debian for the
version I want. By only having the source I don't risk having problem
arise by doing a install by mistake.

It took me three hours fixing the mess that deb-multimedia did on my GFs
computer. She installed a package and it updated something like 100
library, sometime compiled with non-sense options. Luckily they add the
"dmo" to software version. So I was able to list the bad guys by doing
dpkg -l | grep 'dmo'

I totally understand what you say.
And this is the reason why I build my own package when needed. More than
often will be new version of package that I use ahead of time, for
example a version of Emacs that is still in testing but that I need so I
can get tabnine to work on it.

And even there, so not to get problem with library, I'll do the compile
myself. Because most of the time it will link against the library I
already have installed whereas if I'd go with the binary this would
force me to update some non needed library only because it got linked
against (even if it didn't need it but was built for it because it's the
version that will be used by this specific system).

If I need something with a newer version that it exist in Debian then I
check if it exist in deb-multimedia.
If so, I get it in source form.
I check for the dependencies.
Most of the time, all the dependencies have already been ported into
backports.
So I fix those dependencies to use the naming convention that will make
them rely on backport.
And then I'll compile.
And use...
This is how I got Kodi 18.(something) on Buster.

>> So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a custom
>> package but if I build software and put it outside the packaging system,
>> it's supportable ?
> 
> It's not quite that cut-and-dried, but basically: yes.
> 
> Packages have a much bigger potential for breaking your system.
> 
Like I already said, I already know not to install non trusted package
on my system or dodgy software from unknown developers. For example
BigBlueMachine (a real damn mess).

>> And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms used
>> for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I use a
>> repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf who already
>> does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
>> So this is bad and make me loose community support ?
> 
> This is OK if you're competent to do it correctly.  But this is a
> specialized task, which the generic #debian channel may not be equipped
> to help you with.  We can point you toward beginner tutorials.
> 
I think you are starting to get the thing here.

I've built many package either from scratch or sometime package that
weren't maintained anymore. But that I wanted to get a newer release. So
I got into the package source in Strech (or even Jessie) so it saved me
time writing some documentation, also sometime I found patches that
we're useful. For example disabling the auto-update as not to cause
problem with dpkg file library for the system.

I've backported software from testing into buster myself, using Docker
container not to trash my whole system. Sometime disabling options that
will cause dependencies problem or will require library not available.

Those are mostly specific package, for example Kodi for my girlfriend.

Or in my case, metasploit-framework with the bunch of Ruby dependencies.
Or simply exploitdb, exploitdb-bin-sploits and exploitdb-papers.


> For help with any problems you encounter while building your own local
> packages, there are some channels on the OFTC network: #packaging and
> possibly #debian-mentors, although the latter is really for packages that
> are intended to become part of Debian, not personal/local projects.
> 

Well I'm already on the mentors and dpkg mailing list.

Maybe my question went in a direction for another mailing list here.

Yes I'm planning to go on an 

Re: IRC

[Dan Ritter]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: 
> 
> 
> On 2021-05-19 2:29 p.m., Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: 
> 
> I already know not to install untrusted software on my computer.

We're all happy about that. Not everyone is as good about that
as you are.

This is not about you. This is about why people on this mailing
list don't want to help people who do things badly.

But there's no rule about it. No law. People are free to help
you or not, even if you have built a system from your own
compiler chain and wrote an /etc/debian-version by hand.


-dsr-

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-05-19 2:29 p.m., Dan Ritter wrote:
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: 
>>
>> On 2021-05-19 2:01 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:29:44PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>>> wrote:
 Now if what you are telling me is :
 That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not inside 
the
 Debian repository will make my system a "frankendebian" and will entitle
 myself to be called off-topic and not worth having my message read, then
 honestly, I'll simply stop reading mailing list and go on my own.
>>>
>>> First of all, this is exactly the kind of attitude I was talking about,
>>> which we see *EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY* from Kali users especially.  If you
>>> behave like this on any of the Debian IRC channels, you will get no help.
>> I am not a Kali user.
>>
>>>
>>> Second, no, not all third-party software makes your system unsupportable.
>>> But *packages* that are installed from other distributions most certainly
>>> do.
>>>
>>
>> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
>> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
>> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> Installing a software thingy in /opt or /usr/local or such
> limits the damage to "it doesn't work, but the system as a whole
> works otherwise". 
> 

I don't know how many package you have developed or what's you
background but :

The packaging system make sure no one write over others file.
Installing a software in /opt doesn't prevent it from trashing files in /etc

Only thing it does is make it simple when you get some problem regarding
library compatibility because it come after /usr/lib in the list of
folder checked by the linker.

> Adding a package repository or installing a random .deb file off
> the Internet can change arbitrary things in your system, and
> stuff that you didn't think you were changing can suddenly stop
> working. That's extremely difficult to debug.
> 
> 

I already know not to install untrusted software on my computer.

You are getting far from what I was talking about.

I don't install .deb from the "internet".

I build my own software package when needed. I look over at the source
code, the scripts and everything else.

>> So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a custom
>> package but if I build software and put it outside the packaging system,
>> it's supportable ?
> 
> Oh, no, no no no.
> 
> There is no support for anything!
> 
I know that there's no support.
My wording was wrong.

> But all of us volunteers are willing to help out, from each
> according to their abilities, to each according to the random
> factors of the universe.
> 
>> And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms used
>> for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I use a
>> repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf who already
>> does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
>> So this is bad and make me loose community support ?
> 
> No, because see above: there's no support.
> 
> The question is, what can you do to maximize the chances of
> someone helping you?
> 
>> I feel like people just feel good telling others "You are wrong" so they
>> can feel "right".
> 
> In this case, you are mostly wrong. People are telling you that
> you're doing it the wrong way because their experience (and
> mine) is that they have spent far too much of their own time
> trying to debug problems that they cannot possibly reproduce,
> because you have a version of libinsidious that nobody else has.
> 
> -dsr-
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Dan Ritter]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: 
> 
> On 2021-05-19 2:01 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:29:44PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> > wrote:
> >> Now if what you are telling me is :
> >> That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not inside the
> >> Debian repository will make my system a "frankendebian" and will entitle
> >> myself to be called off-topic and not worth having my message read, then
> >> honestly, I'll simply stop reading mailing list and go on my own.
> > 
> > First of all, this is exactly the kind of attitude I was talking about,
> > which we see *EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY* from Kali users especially.  If you
> > behave like this on any of the Debian IRC channels, you will get no help.
> I am not a Kali user.
> 
> > 
> > Second, no, not all third-party software makes your system unsupportable.
> > But *packages* that are installed from other distributions most certainly
> > do.
> > 
> 
> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?

Ahem.

Installing a software thingy in /opt or /usr/local or such
limits the damage to "it doesn't work, but the system as a whole
works otherwise". 

Adding a package repository or installing a random .deb file off
the Internet can change arbitrary things in your system, and
stuff that you didn't think you were changing can suddenly stop
working. That's extremely difficult to debug.


> So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a custom
> package but if I build software and put it outside the packaging system,
> it's supportable ?

Oh, no, no no no.

There is no support for anything!

But all of us volunteers are willing to help out, from each
according to their abilities, to each according to the random
factors of the universe.

> And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms used
> for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I use a
> repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf who already
> does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
> So this is bad and make me loose community support ?

No, because see above: there's no support.

The question is, what can you do to maximize the chances of
someone helping you?

> I feel like people just feel good telling others "You are wrong" so they
> can feel "right".

In this case, you are mostly wrong. People are telling you that
you're doing it the wrong way because their experience (and
mine) is that they have spent far too much of their own time
trying to debug problems that they cannot possibly reproduce,
because you have a version of libinsidious that nobody else has.

-dsr-

Re: IRC

[Nicolas George]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside (12021-05-19):
> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?

Because the shortcut that allows you to save some time is (1) a very
privileged part of the system and (2) full of pitfalls.

If you install something in /opt and do it incompetently but not too
much, you cannot break your system. At worst, you break what you were
installing.

If you install a package that was done incompetently but not too much,
through the interactions of dependencies, it can cause all kinds of
problems. In particular it can cause important security updates to be
blocked to preserve the possibly unimportant package.

Oh, and, if you know enough about the packaging system to create your
own packages without causing this kind of problems, then I do not need
to explain that to you, you know this already. So yeah.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: IRC

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 02:15:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
> package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
> Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?

Because things you pull from git and install in /opt or /usr/local or
even $HOME do not interfere with the Debian system.  They don't create
dependency issues within the dpkg database, nor do they overwrite
essential system libraries or files, nor do they cause removal of Debian
packages, etc.

An Ubuntu or Kali package, especially a badly built one, can cause *all*
kinds of havoc.  Even some third-party repositories set up by Debian
developers have been notorious for causing these kinds of problems in
the past -- take a look at the history of the "debian multimedia" package
repositories, in particular.

> So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a custom
> package but if I build software and put it outside the packaging system,
> it's supportable ?

It's not quite that cut-and-dried, but basically: yes.

Packages have a much bigger potential for breaking your system.

> And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms used
> for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I use a
> repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf who already
> does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
> So this is bad and make me loose community support ?

This is OK if you're competent to do it correctly.  But this is a
specialized task, which the generic #debian channel may not be equipped
to help you with.  We can point you toward beginner tutorials.

For help with any problems you encounter while building your own local
packages, there are some channels on the OFTC network: #packaging and
possibly #debian-mentors, although the latter is really for packages that
are intended to become part of Debian, not personal/local projects.

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-05-19 2:01 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:29:44PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> Now if what you are telling me is :
>> That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not inside the
>> Debian repository will make my system a "frankendebian" and will entitle
>> myself to be called off-topic and not worth having my message read, then
>> honestly, I'll simply stop reading mailing list and go on my own.
> 
> First of all, this is exactly the kind of attitude I was talking about,
> which we see *EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY* from Kali users especially.  If you
> behave like this on any of the Debian IRC channels, you will get no help.
I am not a Kali user.

> 
> Second, no, not all third-party software makes your system unsupportable.
> But *packages* that are installed from other distributions most certainly
> do.
> 

Why would a package I get from a git repository be supportable but a
package I save some packaging time and get from another source (Kali,
Ubuntu for example) would become unsupportable ?

So you are telling me that support stop as soon I build myself a custom
package but if I build software and put it outside the packaging system,
it's supportable ?

> If you want to install third-party software, do so either by building
> upstream NON-PACKAGED sources and installing directly in /opt or
> /usr/local, or if you wish to use packages, use them only from trusted
> sources.  That *especially* means no PPAs.
> 

And if I build myself a package, for example I packaged all my roms used
for gaming into a deb file, this way it's easy to install and I use a
repository on my local network. By doing it this way, my gf who already
does her updates can also update the pack of roms I got.
So this is bad and make me loose community support ?

I don't install software from PPA.
I save myself some time writing packaging files by getting them from
other source when needed.

If you read what I've wrote.

I built many software using upstream source (git repository) but instead
of writing myself the whole packaging files, I took them from either
Kali or Ubuntu when available.

So if I use a package that is not included in Debian for licensing
reason then I get bad, even if it's something as simple as a one file
utility ?

One reason we use a packaging system that tracks the files installed is
to prevent software from interfering by writing over other packages
files. So you thing about /opt is pretty much non relevant except if I
do build software and don't use the packaging system.

> (What counts as trusted?  That's an open question, and pretty subjective.
> Except for the PPA part.  Everyone agrees on those.)
> 
>> If this is not a Debian question then tell my what it is ?
> 
> These would be examples of Debian questions which an IRC channel could
> reasonably hope to answer:
> 
> 1) "Why isn't virtualbox in Debian?"
> 
> 2) "How should I install virtualbox on Debian release _?"
> 
> However, the following is *not*:
> 
> 3) "I built a custom virtualbox package myself from Kali deb-src, and now
>I'm getting this error"
> 
> That's what we can't support.  Especially in IRC, where questions should
> be short and easy, not involving 8-hour diagnostic marathons.
> 

There's a difference between a plain "I get this error" and the other
way around that is :

I get a error and would like to fix it, I'd like to know why do you guys
enforce -fPIC because maybe you have a good reason and if not, I won't
use this option (and this could solve my problem).

I feel like people just feel good telling others "You are wrong" so they
can feel "right".

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:29:44PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Now if what you are telling me is :
> That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not inside the
> Debian repository will make my system a "frankendebian" and will entitle
> myself to be called off-topic and not worth having my message read, then
> honestly, I'll simply stop reading mailing list and go on my own.

First of all, this is exactly the kind of attitude I was talking about,
which we see *EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY* from Kali users especially.  If you
behave like this on any of the Debian IRC channels, you will get no help.

Second, no, not all third-party software makes your system unsupportable.
But *packages* that are installed from other distributions most certainly
do.

If you want to install third-party software, do so either by building
upstream NON-PACKAGED sources and installing directly in /opt or
/usr/local, or if you wish to use packages, use them only from trusted
sources.  That *especially* means no PPAs.

(What counts as trusted?  That's an open question, and pretty subjective.
Except for the PPA part.  Everyone agrees on those.)

> If this is not a Debian question then tell my what it is ?

These would be examples of Debian questions which an IRC channel could
reasonably hope to answer:

1) "Why isn't virtualbox in Debian?"

2) "How should I install virtualbox on Debian release _?"

However, the following is *not*:

3) "I built a custom virtualbox package myself from Kali deb-src, and now
   I'm getting this error"

That's what we can't support.  Especially in IRC, where questions should
be short and easy, not involving 8-hour diagnostic marathons.

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !

On 2021-05-19 12:57 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:29:56PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> Yesterday I downloaded the virtualbox package from the Ubuntu repository
>> (because I just found it's not in Debian anymore) and compiled it on
>> Debian. Because all the software that I can't find compiled in the
>> Debian normal repository, I get them from either Ubuntu or Kali and
>> compile them myself. Yes I compiled all the packages that are in Kali
>> but not in Debian, to make my own Buster with Kali software. That was
>> "hell of a mess" but as I did it before with Stretch, I already had a base.
> 
> I believe most people would refuse to support this system, because it's
> not in a state that anyone but you will understand, or know how to
> troubleshoot.
> 
> If you have an issue with virtualbox specifically, I would suggest you
> go to a virtualbox support channel.  They'll know much more about it
> than a generic Debian channel does.  The best you'll get out of #debian
> is probably a bot factoid that points you to a wiki page and/or bug
> reports that describe the issues with virtualbox, and why it was removed
> from Debian.
> 
> If your real issue is "how do I support my frankendebian built out of
> hand-built packages from three different distributions", well, we don't
> know, and we don't want to waste our time trying to find out.
> 
Love that kind of non-sense answer...
First, it was only a example as I normally find solution myself.
2nd, if you read what I wrote, it regard to a question specific to
something pretty much Debian. And that is :

Build options set in the buildflags.mk

Now if what you are telling me is :
That all software that I may run on my Linux box that are not inside the
Debian repository will make my system a "frankendebian" and will entitle
myself to be called off-topic and not worth having my message read, then
honestly, I'll simply stop reading mailing list and go on my own.

If this is not a Debian question then tell my what it is ?
"Why did it was chosen to use the -fPIC option in buildflags.mk on the
AMD64 platform and will this matter if I take if off because I'm trying
to build a software that ain't in the repository" (Because software in
the repository got built so will build).

Now no one ask you to waste any time. And if the only time you can take
to help someone is the time that you know can be added to a "bug fixed
database" than that's your choice but be assured that if someone ask for
help, and even if it's a real unique case, that only this person may
have, then I'll be more than happy to help. Because I'm not wasting my
time, but I'm learning and possibly this could be useful if I ever get
something similar in a different situation.

To be open minded doesn't mean you have to crack your head open ;-)

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Celejar]

On Wed, 19 May 2021 19:13:40 +0200
Erwan David  wrote:

> Le 19/05/2021 à 18:50, Celejar a écrit :
> >
> > Andrew Lee is a former owner of Mt. Gox? Source?
> >
> > Celejar
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)=948396067

Ah, okay. So he was not an owner of Mt. Gox the company, but rather the
developer of some sort of mobile application for the Mt. Gox exchange
that was subsequently acquired by the company Mt. Gox.

https://proprivacy.com/vpn/privacy-news/an-interview-with-private-internet-access-founder-andrew-lee

Celejar

Re: IRC

[Erwan David]

Le 19/05/2021 à 18:50, Celejar a écrit :
>
> Andrew Lee is a former owner of Mt. Gox? Source?
>
> Celejar
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Lee_(entrepreneur)=948396067

Re: IRC

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:29:56PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded the virtualbox package from the Ubuntu repository
> (because I just found it's not in Debian anymore) and compiled it on
> Debian. Because all the software that I can't find compiled in the
> Debian normal repository, I get them from either Ubuntu or Kali and
> compile them myself. Yes I compiled all the packages that are in Kali
> but not in Debian, to make my own Buster with Kali software. That was
> "hell of a mess" but as I did it before with Stretch, I already had a base.

I believe most people would refuse to support this system, because it's
not in a state that anyone but you will understand, or know how to
troubleshoot.

If you have an issue with virtualbox specifically, I would suggest you
go to a virtualbox support channel.  They'll know much more about it
than a generic Debian channel does.  The best you'll get out of #debian
is probably a bot factoid that points you to a wiki page and/or bug
reports that describe the issues with virtualbox, and why it was removed
from Debian.

If your real issue is "how do I support my frankendebian built out of
hand-built packages from three different distributions", well, we don't
know, and we don't want to waste our time trying to find out.

Re: IRC

[Celejar]

On Wed, 19 May 2021 18:32:40 +0200
Erwan David  wrote:

> Le 19/05/2021 à 18:04, Celejar a écrit :
> > On Wed, 19 May 2021 11:00:07 -0500
> > Paul Johnson  wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:40 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
>  On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
>  deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi !
> > Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
> >
>    https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
> >>> It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
> >>> different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.
> >> There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
> >> today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.
> > Wow - I just saw this:
> >
> > https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
> >
> > But it didn't mention Bitcoin spammers ;)
> >
> > Celejar
> >
> >
> To one of the former Mt Gox owner...

Andrew Lee is a former owner of Mt. Gox? Source?

Celejar

Re: IRC

[Celejar]

On Wed, 19 May 2021 19:31:09 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:04:51PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
> > > today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.
> > 
> > Wow - I just saw this:
> > 
> > https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
> > 
> > But it didn't mention Bitcoin spammers ;)
> 
> LWN is known to simplify things. Here's some words from the former

They are? I usually find their coverage pretty good. In any event, in
this case the piece was barely a paragraph, just noting the existence
of serious problems and so on, and linking to various places.

> freenode staff:
> 
> https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461

I suppose Marco is a serious guy, but it's hard to take seriously a
statement that refers (without sourcing) to one's antagonist as "a
Trumpian wannabe korean royalty bitcoins millionaire."

I have no idea what that is, and spam isn't mentioned.

Celejar

Re: IRC

[Erwan David]

Le 19/05/2021 à 18:04, Celejar a écrit :
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 11:00:07 -0500
> Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:40 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
 On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
 deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:

> Hi !
> Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
>
   https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
>>> It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
>>> different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.
>> There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
>> today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.
> Wow - I just saw this:
>
> https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
>
> But it didn't mention Bitcoin spammers ;)
>
> Celejar
>
>
To one of the former Mt Gox owner...

Re: IRC

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-05-19 12:00 p.m., Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:40 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
>>> deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi !
 Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?

>>>
>>>   https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
>>
>> It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
>> different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.
> 
> There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
> today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.
> 

Thanks for letting me know. I won't go have a look on FreeNode.
Two things I really dislike...
1st : Spammer
2nd : Publicity over all the crypto currency
3rd: Mix of the first two

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: IRC

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:04:51PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
> > today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.
> 
> Wow - I just saw this:
> 
> https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
> 
> But it didn't mention Bitcoin spammers ;)

LWN is known to simplify things. Here's some words from the former
freenode staff:

https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461

Reco

Re: IRC

[Celejar]

On Wed, 19 May 2021 11:00:07 -0500
Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:40 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
> > > deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi !
> > > > Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
> > > >
> > >
> > >   https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
> >
> > It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
> > different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.
> 
> There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
> today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.

Wow - I just saw this:

https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/

But it didn't mention Bitcoin spammers ;)

Celejar

Re: IRC

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:40 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
> > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
> > deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi !
> > > Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
> > >
> >
> >   https://wiki.debian.org/IRC
>
> It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
> different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.

There's currently a network wide mass exodus from Freenode going on
today after apparently Freenode was sold to some bitcoin spammers.

Re: IRC

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 06:24:20PM +0300, IL Ka wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
> deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi !
> > Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
> >
> 
>   https://wiki.debian.org/IRC

It's worth mentioning that there are #debian channels on at least two
different IRC networks: OFTC and Freenode.

All of the "official" Debian channels are on the OFTC network, because
for whatever reason(*), all of the Debian developers moved over there
about 15 years ago.

However, almost all of the Debian *users* are on the Freenode network.

It is what it is.

Freenode's #debian has more people, and you will probably get help there
faster, so long as your question is actually on-topic and reasonable
for an IRC channel.  However, all of the specialized channels (like
#debian-next, #debian-boot, or #debian-mentors) are on the OFTC network.
If your question is highly specific, or if you are not using a stable
Debian release, you may need to be on both networks.

Example of common *off-topic* questions for #debian (ones which will get
you ignored, yelled at, or kicked out of the channel, depending on how
you act) include: questions about sid/unstable, questions about Ubuntu,
questions about MX Linux, and questions about Kali Linux.

(*)I shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but some of you will remember the
guy I'm thinking of, a Freenode admin who drove a lot of people away.  Or
was the network still called OPN at the time?  I don't rememeber when
the name changed

Re: IRC

[IL Ka]

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 6:22 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <
deb...@polynamaude.com> wrote:

> Hi !
> Is there some IRC channel for Debian ?
>

  https://wiki.debian.org/IRC

re: irc client question

[Jude DaShiell]

I tried using tee with BitchX and found those two programs just hang my
computer even with BitchX run inside ` marks.  I may have to run BitchX
with -d and -f options to make this work, but I don't like my chances.



--

Re: IRC meeting online 19/8 20:00 #debian-gr/OFTC (was Re: θεμα λιστας)

[Pantelis Koukousoulas]

2012/8/10 Christos Ricudis ricu...@paiko.net:
 Κριμα. Μαζι με τους αλλους τουλαχιστον δυο θα ησασταν τουλαχιστον τρεις.

Για study group και 3 να ήμασταν θα ήταν αρκετό, αν και από ότι
φαίνεται θα είμαστε αρκετά παραπάνω.

Δεν καταλαβαίνω το λόγο της ειρωνίας αυτή τη φορά. Λίγη καλή διάθεση
πού και πού δε θα έβλαπτε :)

Χαιρετισμούς,
Παντελής

Re: IRC meeting online 19/8 20:00 #debian-gr/OFTC (was Re: θεμα λιστας)

[Alexius Dionysius Diakogiannis]

11 Αυγ 2012, 18:26, ο/η Pantelis  Koukousoulas pkt...@gmail.com έγραψε:

 2012/8/10 Christos Ricudis ricu...@paiko.net:
 Κριμα. Μαζι με τους αλλους τουλαχιστον δυο θα ησασταν τουλαχιστον τρεις.
 
 Για study group και 3 να ήμασταν θα ήταν αρκετό, αν και από ότι
 φαίνεται θα είμαστε αρκετά παραπάνω.
 
 Δεν καταλαβαίνω το λόγο της ειρωνίας αυτή τη φορά. Λίγη καλή διάθεση
 πού και πού δε θα έβλαπτε :)
 
 Χαιρετισμούς,
 Παντελής


Ρικουδης και ευγένεια; Καλη διάθεση; Ήθος; Δε βλέπεις τη λίστα καιρο μου 
φαίνεται...

Re: IRC meeting online 19/8 20:00 #debian-gr/OFTC (was Re: θεμα λιστας)

[Serafeim Zanikolas]

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 01:33:12PM +0300, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
 On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 +0300
 Pantelis  Koukousoulas pkt...@gmail.com wrote: 
  Για πρακτικούς λόγους θα πρότεινα να κανονιστεί αυτή η συνάντηση μετά
  τις 15, π.χ., την επόμενη Παρασκευή (ή πείτε όσοι ενδιαφέρεστε ποιες
  μέρες θα σας βόλευαν);
 
 Μετά από συζήτηση στο κανάλι, συμφωνήσαμε στις 19/8 (επόμενη Κυριακή
 μετά τον 15αυγουστο) στις 8-9 το βράδυ στο κανάλι #debian-gr/OFTC. Όσοι
[..]

Ωραία, βγήκε κ κάτι καλό απ'αυτή την κουβέντα.

Δεν θα είμαι εκεί (δεν βολεύει η μέρα κ γενικά δεν πολυπαίζει irc) αλλά θα
χαρώ να διαβάσω από τη λίστα τυχόν συμπεράσματα.

Στο μεταξύ, όποιος/α θέλει μπορεί να γράψει κ στη λίστα τι θέλουν να κάνουν.

Για τα εισαγωγικά ξανα-αναφέρω, με τον κίνδυνο να γίνομαι κουραστικός, σχετική
παρουσίαση κ άρθρο διαθέσιμα από το http://people.debian.org/~sez/

-- 
Every great idea is worthless without someone to do the work. --Neil Williams


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Re: IRC meeting online 19/8 20:00 #debian-gr/OFTC (was Re: θεμα λιστας)

[vangelis mouhtsis]

Σεραφείμ, γειά
Είδα το λινκ με τις αναρτήσεις σου και το θεωρώ πολύ σπουδαίο.
Οπως κατάλαβα εισαι ενα εμπειρο άτομο και νομίζω οτι η όποια
δική σου συμβουλή θα ειναι χρήσιμη.
Εύχομαι να βρείς τρόπο να έλεθεις σ'αυτή την συνάντηση η να
μπορέσεις κάπου-κάπου να μας επισκέπτεσαι στο κανάλι για
χρήσιμες συμβουλές.

φιλικά
gnugr

Στις 10/08/2012 04:08 μμ, ο/η Serafeim Zanikolas έγραψε:

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 01:33:12PM +0300, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:43:06 +0300
Pantelis  Koukousoulaspkt...@gmail.com  wrote:

Για πρακτικούς λόγους θα πρότεινα να κανονιστεί αυτή η συνάντηση μετά
τις 15, π.χ., την επόμενη Παρασκευή (ή πείτε όσοι ενδιαφέρεστε ποιες
μέρες θα σας βόλευαν);

Μετά από συζήτηση στο κανάλι, συμφωνήσαμε στις 19/8 (επόμενη Κυριακή
μετά τον 15αυγουστο) στις 8-9 το βράδυ στο κανάλι #debian-gr/OFTC. Όσοι

[..]

Ωραία, βγήκε κ κάτι καλό απ'αυτή την κουβέντα.

Δεν θα είμαι εκεί (δεν βολεύει η μέρα κ γενικά δεν πολυπαίζει irc) αλλά θα
χαρώ να διαβάσω από τη λίστα τυχόν συμπεράσματα.

Στο μεταξύ, όποιος/α θέλει μπορεί να γράψει κ στη λίστα τι θέλουν να κάνουν.

Για τα εισαγωγικά ξανα-αναφέρω, με τον κίνδυνο να γίνομαι κουραστικός, σχετική
παρουσίαση κ άρθρο διαθέσιμα από το http://people.debian.org/~sez/




--

Re: IRC meeting online 19/8 20:00 #debian-gr/OFTC (was Re: θεμα λιστας)

[Christos Ricudis]

On 08/10/2012 04:08 PM, Serafeim Zanikolas wrote:
Ωραία, βγήκε κ κάτι καλό απ'αυτή την κουβέντα. Δεν θα είμαι εκεί (δεν 
βολεύει η μέρα κ γενικά δεν πολυπαίζει irc)


Κριμα. Μαζι με τους αλλους τουλαχιστον δυο θα ησασταν τουλαχιστον τρεις.



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Re: IRC wiki page wrong.

[Camaleón]

On Thu, 12 May 2011 21:02:47 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:

 On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:30:49 +0300
 Rares Aioanei scha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello Rares,
 
 I couldn't fathom where to report this , so I'm hoping that here it
 will meet the appropriate eyes. On http://wiki.debian.org/IRC
 {etc}
 
 It's a *wiki*

... so you (@Rares) can create an account and directly correct the error 
by yourself, or you can warn the wiki team editors by contacting them:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki/Contact

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: IRC wiki page wrong.

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:30:49 +0300
Rares Aioanei scha...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Rares,

 I couldn't fathom where to report this , so I'm hoping that
 here it will meet the appropriate eyes. On http://wiki.debian.org/IRC
{etc}

It's a *wiki*

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Re: IRC - A beginners tutorial can be fun too :-)

[Dotan Cohen]

 http://sunoano.name/ws/public_xhtml/misc.html#irc_with_pidgin


Nice. Any chance of doing a Quassel version for KDE user?

Thanks!

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Re: IRC - A beginners tutorial can be fun too :-)

[marc]

Dotan Cohen said:

 http://sunoano.name/ws/public_xhtml/misc.html#irc_with_pidgin


 Nice. Any chance of doing a Quassel version for KDE user?

Quassel works great on gnome too!

Nice to be able to praise a recent kde development for a change.

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Re: IRC - A beginners tutorial can be fun too :-)

[Suno Ano]

 Dotan Nice. Any chance of doing a Quassel version for KDE user?

Hehe ... Well, I am a GNOME boy so as far as I am concerned no. I also
lack the time. However, feel free to steal from me, link to me, whatever
you see fit :)




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Re: IRC - A beginners tutorial can be fun too :-)

[Tony Baldwin]

Suno Ano wrote:

Hi folks,

in the past it happened more and more often that I had been asked by
people if I could show/help them with joining an IRC network. Those
folks are, or shall I say, have been mostly ordinary Windows users
(think of retired Uncle Bob).

After I educated person #8 on the fine arts of IRC, I thought to myself,
that ain't going to scale if we continue down this road sir... I decided
to write a fool-proof tutorial an point folks to it from now on

http://sunoano.name/ws/public_xhtml/misc.html#irc_with_pidgin


Pidgin has got to be about the worst tool for accessing IRC.
(I do use it for MSN, Yahoo! Messenger and Google Talk).
I use IRSSI, myself, but, for the clueless n00b, I would recommend a 
tool like konversation, kirsc, xchat, or, even, seamonkey-irc (shame we 
don't have seamonkey in our repos.  I used it on PCLOS and Ubuntu for my 
browser and e-mail.  Faster than FF and TB).


/tony

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Re: IRC - A beginners tutorial can be fun too :-)

[Avi Greenbury]

Tony Baldwin wrote:
   (shame we
don't have seamonkey in our repos. 


We have IceApe.

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Re: IRC server to authenticate users against an LDAP

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 03:11:01PM +0530, Foss User wrote:
 Is there any IRC server software that can authenticate users against an LDAP?

There are a number of packages that include 'irc services' . e.g.:

$ aptitude search '~G protocol::irc ~Gsecurity::authentication'
p   dancer-services - IRC services implementation for dancer-irc

$ apt-cache search irc | grep -i servi
atheme-services - modular IRC services daemon
dancer-services - IRC services implementation for dancer-ircd
hybserv - IRC services for IRCD-Hybrid
ratbox-services-common - irc services for use with ircd-ratbox
ratbox-services-mysql - irc services for use with ircd-ratbox with the mysql 
backend
ratbox-services-pgsql - irc services for use with ircd-ratbox with the 
PostgreSQL backend
ratbox-services-sqlite - irc services for use with ircd-ratbox with the sqlite 
backend

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Re: irc y #trivia

[ChEnChO]

El 14/11/07, Relvis Gonzalez Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 Saludos colegas,

 tengo en mi red un UnrealIRCD corriendo y me gustaria insertarle un
 canal #trivia, no tengo idea de donde descargarlo, si alguien me
 pudiera decir de que servidor lo puedo obtener se lo agradecería.

 Gracias de antemano.




Es un Off-topic... pero te recomendaria leerte el RFC de irc y pasar
por alguna red irc para que te enteres de como va el tema de los
canales.



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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[ptilou]

On 31 août, 21:10, Marc Blanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:17:12 -0700

 ptilou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.

  J'ai déjà pas réussi à utilisé toutes les fonctionnalités de vim 

 BitchX.


Y a pas dans apt-get ?

Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[giggz]

ptilou a écrit :
 On 31 août, 21:10, Marc Blanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:17:12 -0700

 ptilou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.
 J'ai déjà pas réussi à utilisé toutes les fonctionnalités de vim 
 BitchX.

 
 Y a pas dans apt-get ?
 
 
ben si en sid en tt cas :

p   bitchx  - Advanced Internet Relay Chat
client
p   bitchx-dev  - Header files for BitchX

p   bitchx-gtk  - GTK interface for BitchX

p   bitchx-ssl  - SSL support for BitchX


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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[ptilou]

On 30 août, 18:20, Camille Bourgoin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.

J'ai déjà pas réussi à utilisé toutes les fonctionnalités de vim 

Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Camille Bourgoin]

ptilou [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On 30 août, 18:20, Camille Bourgoin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.

 J'ai déjà pas réussi à utilisé toutes les fonctionnalités de vim
 

utiliser toutes les fonctionnalités d'Emacs ... est-ce possible ?
À mon avis, à moins d'avoir la vie éternelle, ça n'est pas très
utile. L'important c'est de l'utiliser selon ses besoins, et de
s'amuser avec, aussi ;)

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jabber : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Marc Blanc]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:17:12 -0700
ptilou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.
 
 J'ai déjà pas réussi à utilisé toutes les fonctionnalités de vim 

BitchX.


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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Camille Bourgoin]

Tu peux essayer ERC qui est un mode d'Emacs. Il est vraiment excellent.


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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Emmanuel Bouthenot]

 Est il possible d'utiliser IRC en ligne de commande via une connection
 ssh sur la machine ?
y'a un client irc dispo dans zsh :)

M.

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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Arnaud Hocevar]

On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 13:24 +0200, philippe L wrote:
 Boujour,
 
 Est il possible d'utiliser IRC en ligne de commande via une connection
 ssh sur la machine ?
 
 Merçi
 
 Ptilou

Pour toi tout spécialement, telnet est le mieux adapté.


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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[philippe L]

Le 25/08/07, Emmanuel Bouthenot[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

  Est il possible d'utiliser IRC en ligne de commande via une connection
  ssh sur la machine ?
 y'a un client irc dispo dans zsh :)

Arf, j'ai oublié j'utilise batch, un tuto avec ?

Merci

Ptilou

Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[FrekoDing]

philippe L ecrivait le 25.08.2007 13:24:


Boujour,


Bonjour.


Est il possible d'utiliser IRC en ligne de commande via une connection
ssh sur la machine ?


irssi


Merçi


de rien. @+


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Re: IRC en ligne de commande ?

[Vincent H.]

On 8/25/07, FrekoDing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 philippe L ecrivait le 25.08.2007 13:24:

  Est il possible d'utiliser IRC en ligne de commande via une connection
  ssh sur la machine ?

Personnellement j'utilise ircII qui fonctionne très bien.

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Re: IRC

[Benjamin Lannoy]

À défaut d'IRC, il y a éventuellement aussi le salon Jabber
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tout récent, jusque-là assez actif et
qui ne demande rien de mieux que de nouveaux membres. :)

Le Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:20:31 +0100,
amilanar [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

 Salut à tous..
 
 Vous connaitriez des canaux irc qui bougent un peu sur debian et en
 français. #debian-fr ne bougeant pas spécialement.. :(
 Sinon des canaux sur le monde du libre en général sans attributions
 particulières à une distrib..
 
 Merci @+
 
 


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Re: IRC

[Shams Fantar]

amilanar a écrit :

Salut à tous..

Vous connaitriez des canaux irc qui bougent un peu sur debian et en
français. #debian-fr ne bougeant pas spécialement.. :(
Sinon des canaux sur le monde du libre en général sans attributions
particulières à une distrib..

Merci @+


  

Salut,

- Sur irc.debian.org, il y a #debian-fr
- Sur irc.freenode.org, il y a #debian-fr, #sfr-debian, ces deux salons 
sont pour debian, ensuite, il y a des salons qui parlent de toutes les 
distributions comme #linuxfr


bye

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Blog de Scurz : http://sfantar.homelinux.org


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Re: IRC server level recording

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 11:16:06AM -0500, Tony Heal wrote:
 I am looking for a way to record specific channels on my IRC server. I would
 like to have a searchable, postgresql based database. Anyone have any
 suggestions? I tried using drone but it does not support logging into a
 passworded server, only passworded channels.
 
  
 
 Thanks in advance
 
  
 
Hi Tony,
I was just reading my daily mail from Freshmeat.net:
[027] - IMSpector 0.3 
  by Lawrence Manning (http://freshmeat.net/users/aslak3/)
Tue, Dec 5th 2006 23:40

Communications :: Chat

About: IMSpector is a plugin-based transparent IM proxy with the
ability
to log to files and databases. It is also able to filter content.
Supported protocols include MSN, ICQ, AIM, IRC, and Yahoo.

Changes: This release greatly improves AIM/ICQ support by properly
logging
the local IDs. A content filter that can remove naughty words was
also
added. IMSpector now runs on BSD (using pf). Many other small fixes
and
improvements were made.

License: GNU General Public License (GPL)

URL: http://freshmeat.net/projects/imspector/

cheers,
Kev
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[totalement HS] Re: irc enregistrement d'un nick

[Naha]

wolfgod a écrit :


Bonjour,

quelqu'un pourrait-il m'expliquer comment faire pour enregistrer un NICK 
est-ce bien:


/nickserv register mon_mot_de_passe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
 


Non. Pourquoi tu ne l'as pas demandé tout-à-l'heure sur IRC ?

c'est /msg nickserv help pour voir les commandes et /msg  nickserv 
register mot_de_passe pour enregistrer ton nick actuel avec le mot de 
passe donné.




Merci


 
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Re: IRC: ALSA

[Thaddeus H. Black]

If ALSA sound does not interest you, neither will this post.  You can
skip it.

I wrote:
 [...]
 thb Sound problem.  On my system, /dev/dsp, /dev/midi and other sound
   devices seem to accept sound data as normal, but the speaker produces
   no sound.  My mixer is not zeroed.  I've ALSA and NAS installed, plus
   Esound and Jack because other packages depend on them.  If you have
   experience debugging Debian sound: where should I start looking for
   the solution, please?
 asg thb: does 'cat /dev/urandom  /dev/dsp' produce a horrible noise?
   silence? or an error?
 thb asg: thanks; stand by
 thb asg: I ran the command you suggested as root.  Silence, no error,
   no exit until I hit ^C.
 [...]
 Blissex thb: you may have one of those cards without mute/unmute then.
 thb Blissex: my sound chip is very common: AD1981, included on
   millions of recent Intel boards.  There is nothing unusual about it.
 Blissex thb: are you using the 'snd-intel8x0' driver though?
 thb Blissex: yes.  Hard-compiled into the kernel; not a module.
 Blissex thb: BTW ALSA should not be really compiled in the kernel,
   there may be problems if it is done like that.
 thb Blissex: wow!  That, I did not know.  Very good.
 Blissex thb: also have a look here: http://alsa.opensrc.org/intel8x0
   and the 8x0 subsection of http://tinyurl.com/4ogk2

For the record, Blissex' suggestion seems to have solved my problem.
ALSA had failed when recompiled monolithically into my 2.6.8 kernel; but
now that I configure ALSA as a set of modules and recompile the kernel
again, it seems to work fine.  If you encounter a similar problem---if
you have recompiled your 2.6 kernel monolithically and the snd_intel8x0
ALSA driver mysteriously produces no sound---try restoring
module-loading support, then recompile your kernel again with the ALSA
units as loadable modules.  Your kernel doesn't need any fancy automatic
module handling if you don't want it; basic CONFIG_MODULES and
CONFIG_MODULE_UNLOAD suffice.  See the Debian binary
package 'kernel-package' and the modprobe(8) manpage for further info.

How applicable the advice is to systems having non-intel8x0 sound chips
or running non-2.6 kernels, I admit that I do not know; Debian sound is
not my area of expertise and I don't know much about it.  This post is
to report for the list archive what happened to work for me.  For the
benefit of confused Debian beginners who may stumble upon this post,
however, I should observe that unless you have deliberately recompiled
your kernel (this does not happen by accident; if you had done it, you
would know), the advice probably does not pertain to you.

(It may not matter, but to complete the technical report: my specific
motherboard is the Intel D845GEBV2L.  This motherboard provides sound
through an onboard Analog Devices AD1981 chip, which is one of the
several chips the snd_intel8x0 ALSA driver drives.  The reference OS is
Debian 3.1r0a sarge stable.)

I am not subscribed to debian-user, so please e-mail me directly if you
want to reach me over this.

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Re: IRC

[Damian Fossi]

On 8/5/05, Alejandro Garrido Mota [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hola está lista de debian no tiene algún canal para chatear?

¿Para conversar sobre Debian o para conversar cosas triviales ?

Saludos,


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Re: IRC

[Decipher]

Hola! no se si será la de la lista, pero está la #debian-es en
irc.freenode.net


Saludos,


El vie, 05-08-2005 a las 19:48 -0400, Alejandro Garrido Mota escribió:
 Hola está lista de debian no tiene algún canal para chatear? 
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Re: IRC connection

[Pene Chamuscado del Caballo]

I can connect fine. 


On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:08:22 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
 I tried the IRC, but it can not connect to the irc.debian.org. It always
 says time out.
 Can anyone give me some information how to set it up?
 
 Thanks
 
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Re: IRC connection

[Nicholas Lativy]

On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 01:08:22PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello, 
 I tried the IRC, but it can not connect to the irc.debian.org. It always 
 says time out. 
 Can anyone give me some information how to set it up?
You may wish to try another server, irc.debian.org just points to
Freenode, a list of Freenode servers can be found at:

http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml

I hope that was of some help. :-)

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Re: IRC connection

[jackie wang]

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:08:22 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello, 
 I tried the IRC, but it can not connect to the irc.debian.org. It always 
 says time out. 
 Can anyone give me some information how to set it up?
 

try using port  instead of 6667.

HTH

jackie


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Re: IRC Network

[Jacob S.]

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:02:21 +0200
Tim Raats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 How do I setup my own IRC Network ?

I would start with apt-cache search irc | grep daemon.

HTH,
Jacob

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Re: irc with audible notification

[Antonio Rodriguez]

On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:25:14AM +0100, kev wrote:
 hi,
 
 this must be available but i can't find the answer anywhere...
 
 does anyone know of an IRC client which makes an audible beep or something 
 when a message is put into the channel?
 
 this is for a debian woody machine,
 
 thanks,
 
 kev bailey
 
 Xchat?


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Re: irc with audible notification

[Zachary Rizer]

--- Antonio Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:25:14AM +0100, kev wrote:
  hi,
  
  this must be available but i can't find the answer
 anywhere...
  
  does anyone know of an IRC client which makes an
 audible beep or something 
  when a message is put into the channel?
  
  this is for a debian woody machine,
  
  thanks,
  
  kev bailey
  
  Xchat?
 
 
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Irssi.

08:58 [lookandfeel]
08:58 bell_beeps = ON
08:58 [lookandfeel]
08:58 beep_msg_level = MSG HILIGHT
08:58 bell_beeps = ON
08:58 beep_when_away = ON
08:58 beep_when_window_active = OFF



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Re: irc debian..

[Angel J. Varela Vaca]

El Sábado, 26 de Junio de 2004 20:03, Guillermo Bernaldo de Q. Maraver 
escribió:
 Hola a todos... una pregunta muy simple,,,
 ¿Esite algún servidor de irc y/o algun canal de irc para usuarios de
 debian en español?

Tienes irc.freenode.org  canal #debian-es
 Saludos y hasta pronto.

Messiahs
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Re: IRC-Server empfehlung

[Julius Plenz]

* Michelle Konzack [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-05-09 14:17]:
 Frage: Welcher laesst sich einfacher installieren, konfigurieren und
 administrieren ?

Ich kenne mich mit privat laufenden IRC-Servern nicht aus, kann aber
zu der Liste der Server einen hinzufügen, der auf jeden Fall nicht
schlecht ist, den Server, den (u.a.) das Quakenet nutzt, das größte
IRC-Netz.

Das Ding heißt ASUKA und kann unter
http://dev-com.quakenet.org/releases/asuka/
gefunden werden.

Julius
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Re: Irc i firewall

[bieniu]

 Mam firewalla z domyślną polityką INPUT na DROP. Potem otwieram 
niektóre porty w tym porty z zakresu 6665 - 6669. Domyślna polityka na 
OUTPUT i FORWARD jest ACCEPT. 
 Niestety nie mozna wejść na żadnego irca (działając z serwera). 
 
 Przykładowo w BitchX mam:
 Connecting to port 6667 of server krakow.irc.pl [refnum 0]
 
 i tak sobie czekam aż po jakimś czasie wyskakuje:
 BitchX: Servers exhausted. Restarting.
 Connecting to port 6667 of server krakow.irc.pl [refnum 0]
 
 Sytuacja jest analogiczna na innych serwerach irc. 
 

serwery irca - polskie wymagaja posiadania identa
zapewne uzywasz oidentd ktory chodzi na porcie 113 domyslnie
sproboj otworzyc na firewallu port 113 i nie powinno byc juz problemu

pozdro
bieniu


-- 
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Re: Irc i firewall

[Marcin Owsiany]

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 11:41:37AM +0100, Dariusz Skarbek wrote:
 Mam firewalla z domyślną polityką INPUT na DROP. Potem otwieram niektóre 
 porty w tym porty z zakresu 6665 - 6669. Domyślna polityka na OUTPUT i 
 FORWARD jest ACCEPT. 
 Niestety nie mozna wejść na żadnego irca (działając z serwera). 
 
 Przykładowo w BitchX mam:
 Connecting to port 6667 of server krakow.irc.pl [refnum 0]
 
 i tak sobie czekam aż po jakimś czasie wyskakuje:
 BitchX: Servers exhausted. Restarting.
 Connecting to port 6667 of server krakow.irc.pl [refnum 0]
 
 Sytuacja jest analogiczna na innych serwerach irc. 
 
 Coś robię źle :) Proszę o pomoc.

Proponuję na początek pobawić się targetem LOG.

Marcin
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Re: IRC server configuration

[Nicos Gollan]

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:27:37 -0500
Tom Allison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I am thinking I would like to set up something more like an IM process
 than the more open IRC process.  I would like to be able to chat
 with specific (invited?) people in real time.  But I don't want it
 completely open like IRC servers typically are.
 
 I don't have the interest or the bandwidth to run a IRC server for all
 the various chat-rooms out there.  But more along the lines of having
 a chat server that can be set up for dedicated groups of people (read 
 family  friends).

Have a look at a Jabber (www.jabber.org) server. It supports groupchats
which might be what you're looking for.

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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[Greg Folkert]

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 10:11, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
 Hi list!
 
 Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

Yes, irc.debian.org #debian
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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[Paul Morgan]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:11:22 -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

 Hi list!
 
 Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?
 
 Thanks!
 
 Hugo.

Yes.

/server irc.debian.org
/join #debian

-- 
paul

The average lifespan of a Web page today is 100 days. This is no way to
run a culture.

Internet Archive Board Chairman



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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[Jerome BENOIT]

Hello List !

here are naive questions:
What is the basic tools provided with Debian (Sarge) to do IRC ?
Is there a Gnome interface ?
Greg Folkert wrote:
On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 10:11, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Hi list!

Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?


Yes, irc.debian.org #debian
Thanks,
Jeromre


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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Jerome BENOIT wrote:
Hello List !

here are naive questions:
What is the basic tools provided with Debian (Sarge) to do IRC ?
Is there a Gnome interface ?
Since I have mozilla 1.5 and 1.6a compiled with xft from their source I 
use chatzilla.

Hugo.


Greg Folkert wrote:

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 10:11, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Hi list!

Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?


Yes, irc.debian.org #debian


Thanks,
Jeromre





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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[John Smith]

Hi,

try gaim (apt-get install gaim)

Sincerely,

Jan.

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 17:03, Jerome BENOIT wrote:
 Hello List !
 
 here are naive questions:
 What is the basic tools provided with Debian (Sarge) to do IRC ?
 Is there a Gnome interface ?
 
 
 Greg Folkert wrote:
  On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 10:11, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
  
 Hi list!
 
 Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?
  
  
  Yes, irc.debian.org #debian
 
 Thanks,
 Jeromre
 
 
 


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Re: irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?

[Jerome BENOIT]

Thanks for your answers,
I will try soon.
Jerome

John Smith wrote:
Hi,

	try gaim (apt-get install gaim)

Sincerely,

Jan.

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 17:03, Jerome BENOIT wrote:

Hello List !

here are naive questions:
What is the basic tools provided with Debian (Sarge) to do IRC ?
Is there a Gnome interface ?
Greg Folkert wrote:

On Sun, 2003-11-30 at 10:11, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


Hi list!

Is there an irc equivalent to linux.debian.user?


Yes, irc.debian.org #debian
Thanks,
Jeromre







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Re: irc adresse

[Thomas Schönhoff]

Hallo,

longman schrieb:

Hallo,

kann mir einer sagen, ob sich die irc adresse von debian
irc.debian.org sich geändert hat?
Ich bekomme einfach keine Verbindung.
 

Also ich kriege eine Verbindung (gerade eben), daher ist wohl alles beim 
alten geblieben!

Thomas

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Re: irc adresse

[longman]

Danke.
Habe es jetzt geschaftt mich einzuloggen.

Grüße
Michael

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Schönhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Debian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: irc adresse


 Hallo,

 longman schrieb:

 Hallo,
 
 kann mir einer sagen, ob sich die irc adresse von debian
 irc.debian.org sich geändert hat?
 Ich bekomme einfach keine Verbindung.
 
 
 
 Also ich kriege eine Verbindung (gerade eben), daher ist wohl alles beim
 alten geblieben!

 Thomas


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Re: IRC protocol blocked

[Karsten M. Self]

on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 12:12:52PM +0800, what what ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 The IRC protocol has been blocked by the local gateway. I tried to reason 
 with them, but they refuse to lift such  a ban.
 
 So, I can not have access to the irc #debian channel.
 
 Anyone knows a way to work out from my side?

You don't specify where your access is received.  Note that violating
site policy may have serious repercussions.  Particularly if it's at a
place of employment.

There are several guides to bypassing firewalls, Google for Firewall
Piercing HOWTO.  Note that this information can get you fired or worse.

Your best bet is to get access somewhere else.  If you can and your site
allows ssh access to a remote shell account, you can run a text-mode IRC
client such as irssi from this.

Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of Gestalt don't you understand?
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Re: IRC protocol blocked

[Jon Haugsand]

* Karsten M. Self
 Your best bet is to get access somewhere else.  If you can and your site
 allows ssh access to a remote shell account, you can run a text-mode IRC
 client such as irssi from this.

If you have ssh access, using X applications is trivial.  Just turn on
X tunnelling, and everything is plain sailing:

ssh -X [EMAIL PROTECTED] xapplication

-- 
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 http://www.norges-bank.no


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Re: IRC protocol blocked

[Sven Hoexter]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 07:41:48AM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote:
 on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 12:12:52PM +0800, what what ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

Hi,

  So, I can not have access to the irc #debian channel.
  
  Anyone knows a way to work out from my side?
 
 You don't specify where your access is received.  Note that violating
 site policy may have serious repercussions.  Particularly if it's at a
 place of employment.
That is realy important! I've recently heard again about a case where
somebody got fired from his apprenticeship cause of policy violation.
 
 There are several guides to bypassing firewalls, Google for Firewall
 Piercing HOWTO.  Note that this information can get you fired or worse.
 
 Your best bet is to get access somewhere else.  If you can and your site
 allows ssh access to a remote shell account, you can run a text-mode IRC
 client such as irssi from this.
And in a realy hard case you can use cgiirc. It's working quite good and you
only need http access to the outside.
You can find cgiirc on http://cgiirc.sf.net

The piercing way requieres a tool like transconnect and a broken https
proxy.

Sven
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Re: IRC

[Mateusz Szczyrzyca]

Dnia Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 07:06:16PM +0200, osoba znana jako Pawel Bukowski 
napisała:
 Witam ;)
 
 Wie ktos moze ktore porty trzeba udostepnic na iptables aby na ircu nie
 miec +r?
 Mam ustawione aby dla nawiazanych polaczen przyjmowal nowe na innych
 portach ale to nie wystarcza
 
+r zależy od ustawień ircd na danej sieci ircowej, zapewne mniemam
iż chodzi Ci o IRCnet. Jeśli tak to tam bez revDNS oraz na sieciach
dialupowych jest +r ustawiane.

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Re: IRC

[Kamil 'czemu aka klusek' Bista]

Witam ;)

Wie ktos moze ktore porty trzeba udostepnic na iptables aby na ircu nie
miec +r?
Mam ustawione aby dla nawiazanych polaczen przyjmowal nowe na innych
portach ale to nie wystarcza


A masz prawidlowo skonfigurowanego revDNSa ? Serwer irc widzi Cie jako 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] czy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Przez jaki serwer sie laczysz? (warszawa 
ma +r dla kilku klas), moze to jakas nowa pula nie dopisana jeszcze do I:?



--
Pozdrawiam,
Kamil 'czemu' Bista
czemu(malpek)rotfl(kropek)tc
Slackware-current user :-)

Re: IRC

[Pawel Bukowski]

Mam ustawionego revDNS'a i jezeli dam
-A INPUT -p tcp -s warszawa.irc.pl -j ACCEPT
to nie mam +r ale to jest brzydkie rozwiazanie...
probowalem zobaczyc co robi ircd gdy sie lacze do niego... doszedlem do
wniosku ze laczy sie z klientem na porcie gdzies pomiedzy 3000 a 4000...
ale samo udostepnienie tych portow tez nie dziala...

W liście z pią, 12-09-2003, godz. 19:33, Kamil 'czemu aka klusek' Bista
pisze: 
 
  Witam ;)
  
  Wie ktos moze ktore porty trzeba udostepnic na iptables aby na ircu nie
  miec +r?
  Mam ustawione aby dla nawiazanych polaczen przyjmowal nowe na innych
  portach ale to nie wystarcza
 
 A masz prawidlowo skonfigurowanego revDNSa ? Serwer irc widzi Cie jako 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] czy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Przez jaki serwer sie laczysz? 
 (warszawa 
 ma +r dla kilku klas), moze to jakas nowa pula nie dopisana jeszcze do I:?
 
 
 -- 
 Pozdrawiam,
 Kamil 'czemu' Bista
 czemu(malpek)rotfl(kropek)tc
 Slackware-current user :-)
 
 
 

Re: IRC

[Pawel Bukowski]

oki juz mam... chodzilo o to ze warszawa.irc.pl daje +r gdy nie ma
dostepu do auth (ident)...
W liście z pią, 12-09-2003, godz. 20:17, Pawel Bukowski pisze: 
 Mam ustawionego revDNS'a i jezeli dam
 -A INPUT -p tcp -s warszawa.irc.pl -j ACCEPT
 to nie mam +r ale to jest brzydkie rozwiazanie...
 probowalem zobaczyc co robi ircd gdy sie lacze do niego... doszedlem do
 wniosku ze laczy sie z klientem na porcie gdzies pomiedzy 3000 a 4000...
 ale samo udostepnienie tych portow tez nie dziala...
 
 W liście z pią, 12-09-2003, godz. 19:33, Kamil 'czemu aka klusek' Bista
 pisze: 
  
   Witam ;)
   
   Wie ktos moze ktore porty trzeba udostepnic na iptables aby na ircu nie
   miec +r?
   Mam ustawione aby dla nawiazanych polaczen przyjmowal nowe na innych
   portach ale to nie wystarcza
  
  A masz prawidlowo skonfigurowanego revDNSa ? Serwer irc widzi Cie jako 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] czy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Przez jaki serwer sie laczysz? 
  (warszawa 
  ma +r dla kilku klas), moze to jakas nowa pula nie dopisana jeszcze do I:?
  
  
  -- 
  Pozdrawiam,
  Kamil 'czemu' Bista
  czemu(malpek)rotfl(kropek)tc
  Slackware-current user :-)
  
  
  
 

Re: irc: tem saida pelo firewall?

[Christian Lyra]

Tem o cgiirc, que o fatalerror tava comentando no canal esse domingo... 
basicamente eh um front-end web para o irc. Se eu achar o endereco eu posto 
aqui na lista.

On Tuesday 22 July 2003 17:00, Marcio de Araujo Benedito wrote:
 Pessoal;

 Estou em uma rede protegida por um firewall, que tem todas as portas,
 exceto a 80, fechadas.

 Existe alguma maneira de eu usar o irc para entrar no #debian-br

 []'s
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http://wecanstopspam.org

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  ``A well-written program is its own heaven; a poorly-written program is its 
own hell.'' 
The Tao Of Programing

Re: irc: tem saida pelo firewall?

[William Prigol Lopes]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:27:37 -0300
Christian Lyra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

.. basicamente eh um front-end web para o irc. Se eu achar o endereco eu posto 
aqui na lista.

Eu acho que é este http://sp.debian-br.org/cgi-bin/irc/irc.cgi;

  Estou em uma rede protegida por um firewall, que tem todas as portas,
  exceto a 80, fechadas.
 
  Existe alguma maneira de eu usar o irc para entrar no #debian-br

William Prigol Lopes

Lab. de Informática - UNIVATES
May the source stay with you

Re: IRC Server

[Ross Burton]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 14:28, Matthew Daubenspeck wrote:
 Can I please have some suggestions on a small, simple, and secure IRC
 server. I don't need anything major, but would like some basic
 functionality...

Secure IRC?

Hahahahaha :)

Try SILC (silcnet.org). Its not IRC, but it looks like IRC and is very
secure.  They maintain debs.

Ross
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Re: IRC Server

[Hugh Saunders]

On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 09:28:46AM -0500, Matthew Daubenspeck wrote:
 Can I please have some suggestions on a small, simple, and secure IRC
 server. I don't need anything major, but would like some basic
 functionality...
how about a 386 running ircd behind a well configured firewall?

hugh


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Re: IRC

[zippo potamme]

At 22:39 22/02/2003 +0100, Henares Sebastien wrote:

citons aussi #linux-fr .. sur undernet bien entendu ..


Il existe aussi l'ex openprojects.net nommé maintenant freenode.org sur 
lequel tu peut trouver #debian-france, #linuxfr, #gcu

tous trois francophones.




 Le sam 22/02/2003 à 20:58, Alexandre Anriot a écrit :
   Bonsoir,
 
  Connaissez vous de bons channels sur Linux et Debian plus
particulièrement (heu.. en français si possible)

 Sur le réseau Undernet (http://www.undernet.org/),
 il existe #linuxfr et #debianfr dont j'en suis l'un des opérateurs.
 D'autres utilisateurs habitués et opérateurs de ces channels (surtout
 #debianfr) sont égalemment inscrits sur cette liste.

 --
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 http://choranche.grotte.org/
 In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
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--- 

Re: IRC

[Nicolas C.]

Le samedi 22 février 2003 à 20:58, Alexandre Anriot écrivait :
  Bonsoir,

Bonsoir,
 
 Connaissez vous de bons channels sur Linux et Debian plus particulièrement 
 (heu.. en français si possible)

#linux-fr, #debian-fr, #debian-france sur irc.freenode.net

À bientôt :)

-- 
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Clef GPG   : http://linuxpower.free.fr/bounga.asc

Re: IRC

[Raphael Bordet]

Le sam 22/02/2003 à 20:58, Alexandre Anriot a écrit :
  Bonsoir,
 
 Connaissez vous de bons channels sur Linux et Debian plus particulièrement 
 (heu.. en français si possible)

Sur le réseau Undernet (http://www.undernet.org/), 
il existe #linuxfr et #debianfr dont j'en suis l'un des opérateurs.
D'autres utilisateurs habitués et opérateurs de ces channels (surtout
#debianfr) sont égalemment inscrits sur cette liste.

-- 
Raphaël Bordet | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://choranche.grotte.org/
In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
-- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IRC

[Henares Sebastien]

citons aussi #linux-fr .. sur undernet bien entendu ..

 Le sam 22/02/2003 à 20:58, Alexandre Anriot a écrit :
   Bonsoir,
 
  Connaissez vous de bons channels sur Linux et Debian plus
particulièrement (heu.. en français si possible)

 Sur le réseau Undernet (http://www.undernet.org/),
 il existe #linuxfr et #debianfr dont j'en suis l'un des opérateurs.
 D'autres utilisateurs habitués et opérateurs de ces channels (surtout
 #debianfr) sont égalemment inscrits sur cette liste.

 --
 Raphaël Bordet | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://choranche.grotte.org/
 In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate.
 -- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Irc console

[Carlos Eduardo Bortolotto]

On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:05:11 -0200
Miguel Facchini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Sobre o howto não posso ajudar, mas acredito que uma busca sobre o mesmo
 seria fácil de encontrar informações a respeito.

 - Original Message -
 From: tiagoanjoinformatica [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 4:54 PM
 Subject: Irc console

 Alguem ai já usou o irc no linux em modo console !!!
 E teria algum hownto dele ???

Miguel, xchat-text eh bom tanto quanto o BitchX? eu nunca usei o xchat-text, 
pois tudo o que preciso o BitchX tem. Sobre o howto Tiba, le a documentacao 
desse link que te passei abaixo aqui! acho que tem tudo o que voce precisa. O 
canal de irc oficial do BitchX fica na EFNet, entao vai o endereco, caso queira 
um possivel *help online*: irc.weblook2k.com no canal #BitchX

http://www.bitchx.org/docs.html


-- 
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(wmkr) ICQ UIN: #73544759 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page http://www.wmkr.tk
Great minds argue ideas; Medium minds argue events; Small minds argue people

Re: Irc console

[Miguel Facchini]

Olá a todos,

já usei e ainda uso muitas vezes, pode usar o xchat-text ou o bitchx, tanto
um como o outro faz o serviço, mas use o que você preferir e/ou achar mais
fácil de usar.

Sobre o howto não posso ajudar, mas acredito que uma busca sobre o mesmo
seria fácil de encontrar informações a respeito.

Abraços
Miguel Facchini
Analista de Sistemas
(54) 9102-9202
Porto Alegre - RS


- Original Message -
From: tiagoanjoinformatica [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Irc console


Boa tarde ae list.

Alguem ai já usou o irc no linux em modo console !!!
E teria algum hownto dele ???

Grato

Tiba Online


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O melhor lugar para você construir seu site. Fácil e grátis!
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Re: Irc console

[Fabio Rafael da Rosa]

 Alguem ai já usou o irc no linux em modo console !!!
 E teria algum hownto dele ???
BitchX ... =-)
ótimo programa, uso ele inclusive quando estou no X...  =-) 

Re: Irc console

[Nelson Luiz Campos]

Tiba;

Dê uma olhada em apt-cache show bitchx

[]'s,

Still

* tiagoanjoinformatica ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Boa tarde ae list.
 
 Alguem ai já usou o irc no linux em modo console !!!
 E teria algum hownto dele ???
 
 Grato
 
 Tiba Online
 
  
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Linux User #89621 UIN 11464303 | I do; I understand.
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Re: IRC

[Justin A]

Replying to 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200211/msg02927.html
If it lets me

Mr W|GGL|T eh

wonder if you knows some people log irc..

i have about 20 pages of nothing but 
Oct 24 03:55:47 *   W|GGL|T is away: I'm busy or asleep
Oct 24 10:36:04 -- W|GGL|T has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed 
out))
Oct 24 10:39:29 -- W|GGL|T (~[EMAIL PROTECTED]) has 
joined #debian

then

Nov 01 23:37:15 W|GGL|T   me too
Nov 01 23:37:16 W|GGL|T   lol
Nov 01 23:37:31 W|GGL|T   i use morpheus all the time
Nov 01 23:38:06 W|GGL|T   i use it in XP but i think there's a linux 
version
Nov 01 23:38:18 W|GGL|T   from what i read in linux journal
Nov 01 23:38:35 *   W|GGL|T has NO problem with file sharing at ALL
Nov 01 23:38:39 W|GGL|T   to each his own
Nov 01 23:38:49 W|GGL|T   dont like it, don't use it
Nov 01 23:39:16 The_Vulture   W|GGL|T: do like it, buy it
Nov 01 23:39:31 W|GGL|T   i buy it when i want to buy it
Nov 01 23:39:34 W|GGL|T   'nuff said
Nov 01 23:40:02 mwilson   W|GGL|T: Which I'm sure pretty much turns out 
to be never.
Nov 01 23:40:33 W|GGL|T   mwilson: thanks for being concerned about 
what's in my music library
Nov 01 23:40:41 W|GGL|T   :o)
Nov 01 23:41:08 W|GGL|T   The_Vulture: yeah, especially when most of it 
IS mine
Nov 01 23:41:09 W|GGL|T   :o)
Nov 01 23:41:21 mwilson   W|GGL|T: Thank you for confirming yet again my 
assertion that most media thieves are dumb-fucks.
Nov 01 23:41:45 W|GGL|T   mwilson: you are welcome to your fucked up 
opinion...you should keep it to yourself
Nov 01 23:41:48 W|GGL|T   should
Nov 01 23:41:50 W|GGL|T   but whatever

and then a little later

Nov 03 10:58:53 *   W|GGL|T is back (gone 05:50:17)
Nov 03 11:34:49 W|GGL|T   anyone know offhand what disk of the 7 cd set 
the 2.4.18 kernel source would be on?
Nov 03 11:35:14 hop   W|GGL|T: #1, i'd suspect
Nov 03 12:24:32 W|GGL|T   quick question about sources.list:  i need to 
put deb  http://penguinppc.org/~daenzer/debian/dri-trunk/   ./ in my 
sources.list but when i run apt-get, it ignores the site...this have to do 
with the ./ at the end of that line?
Nov 03 12:26:46 W|GGL|T   i have a question about the sources.list
Nov 03 12:27:24 W|GGL|T   aww...fuck it...i'll subscribe and ask the 
debian mailing list
Nov 03 12:27:40 Mave  W|GGL|T: man sources.list
Nov 03 12:27:43 nkuttler  ~tell W|GGL|T about ask
Nov 03 12:28:11 W|GGL|T   uh...ive ALREADY asked
Nov 03 12:28:20 nkuttler  W|GGL|T: ah, see it now. do you get an error?
Nov 03 15:20:44 -- W|GGL|T has quit (brunner.freenode.net 
irc.freenode.net)


So basically #debian didn't cater to your file sharing philosophy, and wasn't 
able to read your mind.

I'm terribly sorry, guess we should have tried harder.

CC replies :-)
-- 
-Justin


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