Re: [off topic] High Sierra, was: Cindex

[David Wright]

On Sun 12 May 2024 at 21:52:05 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2024 22:27:58 +0200 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote:
> 
> >Hah ! Do they think that ISO 9660 is dead enough so they can highjack
> >its birth name ?
> 
> Happens all the time (just saying - not condoning);
> 
> Solid State Drive - referring to HDs without moving parts.
> 
> BITD, Solid State referred to equipment that operates using transistors,
> not valves.  By that definition, *all* HDs are Solid State.

High Sierra is a proper noun, not just a lofty mountain range.
You'd normally only capitalise solid state drive in a heading,
or when defining SSD.

Of course, the company has history; think Apple Corps,
McIntosh Laboratory, etc.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [off topic] High Sierra, was: Cindex

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 12 May 2024 22:27:58 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

Hello Thomas,

>Hah ! Do they think that ISO 9660 is dead enough so they can highjack
>its birth name ?

Happens all the time (just saying - not condoning);

Solid State Drive - referring to HDs without moving parts.

BITD, Solid State referred to equipment that operates using transistors,
not valves.  By that definition, *all* HDs are Solid State.

-- 
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I must be hallucinating, watching angels celebrating
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Re: off topic, has anyone here built marlin from src?

[gene heskett]

On 12/26/22 08:44, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 08:15:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;



Hi Gene :)


debian bullseye, on a i5 machine, uptodate a/o yesterday.
trying to build marlin for a newer board in a 3d printer, static blew the
Robin Nano 1.2 board that drove a two trees sapphire 5 plus.  The blown
board has been replaced with a newer Robin Nano 3.1 board, with TMC2209
motor drivers.

I've had pip3 install platformio but cannot find instructions of how to
start from square one.



If you're installing from pip3 - you are probably on your own. Anything you
install from pip, you generally have to debug by yourself.


Understood, I should go pester the python list then.


I have available, several banana pi m5's if that would be a more suitable
platform. And I build LinuxCNC from fresh git pulls on an rpi4b regularly,
so I'm not a newbie for arm stuff.



Are the banana pi m5's or the Robin Nano _actually_ running Debian?
If they're not, and running Armbian or similar: you're once again on your
own and will need to ask their support channels.


Armbian, which is equ to testing. And like the rpi world, no mailing 
list, only forums. And you can get banned for years asking about a 
realtime kernel.  That is not a foundation approved topic.


So I did my own, first on this planet, including figuring out my own 
installer too. The uncompressed tarball is about 28 megs. Its on my web 
page.



Marlin has switched to an autoconfig of sorts, two methods of building,
platformio, and visual studio.



The Debian wiki is your friend here for Visual Studio.
https://wiki.debian.org/VisualStudioCode


I'd druther stay out of that pigpen. Not near enough lipstick. History 
teaches me well. NT-3.51 had a habit of its late night housekeeping 
deleting 3.51's main .dll. I called Redmond and asked for just that 
library. And got accused of being a pie-rat. So Bill and I agreed to 
disagree nearly 30 years ago. Bills product has improved since, a lot, 
but not enough to interest me.

It's a very popular development environment but it comes from Microsoft -
so once again, you may be on your own. I would strongly suggest using
the simple .deb package rather than snapd or flatpak. It is also
available for arm64 and armhf (probably built for Ubuntu), but, as ever
your mileage may vary.


debs for this do not exist. The Marlin zip from github is around 150 
megs and needs another 50megs or so for config files as it covers at 
least  500 various printers in 5 or 6 basic architectures. There's 
another maker under every juniper bush.


Or whatever they are called in your locale. ;o)>

I do use a couple AppImages, but from what I've read about snap calling 
home scares me. OpenSCAD and digiKam run fine as AppImages yet are many 
versions newer than your repo's offer. The difference in OpenSCAD? The 
current, about 30 day old AppImage is about 100x faster that your repo's
nearly 2 yo version. The repo version of digikam crashes accessing my 
camera, the ApppImage Just Works. I know nothing about flatpack.



One path involves Visual Studio which does not seem to be available for
debian, so it appears the platformio path is the one to follow. But step by
step instructions are pretty slim.

Can anyone help get me started?



See above.

See mine. :0>

Take care and stay well Andrew. I hope we both have a better 2023.


Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


And cheers to you - and all best wishes for 2023

Andy Cater


--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic, has anyone here built marlin from src?

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 26.12.2022 18:15, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;
...
One path involves Visual Studio which does not seem to be available 
for debian, so it appears the platformio path is the one to follow. 
But step by step instructions are pretty slim.


Can anyone help get me started?

I don't have any experience with CNCs or MarlinFW, but from what I've 
read from documentation [1] [2] it should be pretty straight forward.
First things first you need to install VSCode (Visual Studio Code IDE) 
[3]. Which is not available in Debian repos so you have to trust 
Microsoft and add their external repos along with trusted gpg key.
After VSCode installation, you can proceed and install "PlatformIO" 
which is an extension plugin for VSCode. [4]
To do that, basically you need to press "Ctrl+Shift+X" inside VSCode and 
type "PlatformIO" into search bar inside left-side panel and click 
Install button.
After that you will have a ready-to-go toolkit for MarlinFW 
configuration and compilation, and proceed with further steps, as 
described in [4].



[1] https://marlinfw.org/docs/basics/install.html
[2] https://marlinfw.org/docs/configuration/configuration.html
[3] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/linux
[4] https://marlinfw.org/docs/basics/install_platformio_vscode.html
--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: off topic, has anyone here built marlin from src?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 08:15:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 

Hi Gene :)

> debian bullseye, on a i5 machine, uptodate a/o yesterday.
> trying to build marlin for a newer board in a 3d printer, static blew the
> Robin Nano 1.2 board that drove a two trees sapphire 5 plus.  The blown
> board has been replaced with a newer Robin Nano 3.1 board, with TMC2209
> motor drivers.
> 
> I've had pip3 install platformio but cannot find instructions of how to
> start from square one.
> 

If you're installing from pip3 - you are probably on your own. Anything you
install from pip, you generally have to debug by yourself.

> I have available, several banana pi m5's if that would be a more suitable
> platform. And I build LinuxCNC from fresh git pulls on an rpi4b regularly,
> so I'm not a newbie for arm stuff.
> 

Are the banana pi m5's or the Robin Nano _actually_ running Debian?
If they're not, and running Armbian or similar: you're once again on your
own and will need to ask their support channels.

> Marlin has switched to an autoconfig of sorts, two methods of building,
> platformio, and visual studio.
> 

The Debian wiki is your friend here for Visual Studio. 
https://wiki.debian.org/VisualStudioCode

It's a very popular development environment but it comes from Microsoft -
so once again, you may be on your own. I would strongly suggest using
the simple .deb package rather than snapd or flatpak. It is also
available for arm64 and armhf (probably built for Ubuntu), but, as ever
your mileage may vary.

> One path involves Visual Studio which does not seem to be available for
> debian, so it appears the platformio path is the one to follow. But step by
> step instructions are pretty slim.
> 
> Can anyone help get me started?
> 

See above.

> Thank you.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

And cheers to you - and all best wishes for 2023

Andy Cater

> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 

Re: off topic-cura question

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

On 05/02/2022 12:13, gene heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

Does anyone have an address that willl actually get to the Ultimaker-cura
developers? I have a wish, bug to report.

Thanks all, pm's ok.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


Might this be a good place to start?:
https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Terence]

Many thanks - now it's back to normal! (whatever that is in these Covid
days!)


On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 12:17, piorunz  wrote:

> On 29/11/2021 12:02, Terence wrote:
> > Many thanks, Piotr, that's done it. Since the early 1990s I have always
> > been impressed by the support given on the Debian lists - wonderful!
>
> You are most welcome!
>
> Now as you have working firefox, you can import everything from old
> profile if you are using Mozilla cloud sync, or if you don't, you can
> try to fix old profile: CTRL+F5 on the page (forces to drop caches on
> this page), clean cookies, clean cache, cache, disable addons, until you
> have this resolved. Good luck :)
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
>

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[piorunz]

On 29/11/2021 12:02, Terence wrote:

Many thanks, Piotr, that's done it. Since the early 1990s I have always
been impressed by the support given on the Debian lists - wonderful!


You are most welcome!

Now as you have working firefox, you can import everything from old
profile if you are using Mozilla cloud sync, or if you don't, you can
try to fix old profile: CTRL+F5 on the page (forces to drop caches on
this page), clean cookies, clean cache, cache, disable addons, until you
have this resolved. Good luck :)

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Terence]

Many thanks, Piotr, that's done it. Since the early 1990s I have always
been impressed by the support given on the Debian lists - wonderful!


On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 11:03, piorunz  wrote:

> Please try new profile.
>
> firefox-esr -P
>
> is the command to run. Usually everything works on clean, new profile.
> When you confirm that, you can concentrate to restore your old profile
> to working order.
>
> On 29/11/2021 09:43, Terence wrote:
> > Thank you, all. I'm not running NoScript but thank you for the
> > suggestion. It does seem strange as I'v e used it for years with no
> problem.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 19:31, Hans  > > wrote:
> >
> > Am Sonntag, 28. November 2021, 20:22:25 CET schrieb
> > harrywea...@tutanota.com :
> >
> > Running debian/stable, amd64, fully updated. No problems here.
> >
> > Just a guess: Are you running NoScript plugin im Firefox? Maybe it
> > is not
> > trusted.
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > Hans
> >  > > Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but
> > returns no
> >  > > search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
> >  > >
> >  > > Has anyone else the same problem/
> >  >
> >  > No problem here, on SID!
> >  > Cheers!
> >  >
> >  > Harry.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> With kindest regards, Piotr.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄
>
>

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[piorunz]

Please try new profile.

firefox-esr -P

is the command to run. Usually everything works on clean, new profile.
When you confirm that, you can concentrate to restore your old profile
to working order.

On 29/11/2021 09:43, Terence wrote:

Thank you, all. I'm not running NoScript but thank you for the
suggestion. It does seem strange as I'v e used it for years with no problem.


On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 19:31, Hans mailto:hans.ullr...@loop.de>> wrote:

Am Sonntag, 28. November 2021, 20:22:25 CET schrieb
harrywea...@tutanota.com :

Running debian/stable, amd64, fully updated. No problems here.

Just a guess: Are you running NoScript plugin im Firefox? Maybe it
is not
trusted.

Have fun!

Hans
 > > Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but
returns no
 > > search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
 > >
 > > Has anyone else the same problem/
 >
 > No problem here, on SID!
 > Cheers!
 >
 > Harry.







--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Terence]

Thank you, all. I'm not running NoScript but thank you for the suggestion.
It does seem strange as I'v e used it for years with no problem.


On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 19:31, Hans  wrote:

> Am Sonntag, 28. November 2021, 20:22:25 CET schrieb
> harrywea...@tutanota.com:
>
> Running debian/stable, amd64, fully updated. No problems here.
>
> Just a guess: Are you running NoScript plugin im Firefox? Maybe it is not
> trusted.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Hans
> > > Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but returns no
> > > search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
> > >
> > > Has anyone else the same problem/
> >
> > No problem here, on SID!
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Harry.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Hans]

Am Sonntag, 28. November 2021, 20:22:25 CET schrieb harrywea...@tutanota.com:

Running debian/stable, amd64, fully updated. No problems here. 

Just a guess: Are you running NoScript plugin im Firefox? Maybe it is not 
trusted.

Have fun!

Hans
> > Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but returns no
> > search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
> > 
> > Has anyone else the same problem/
> 
> No problem here, on SID!
> Cheers!
> 
> Harry.

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Nicolas George]

Terence (12021-11-28):
> Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but returns no
> search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
> 
> Has anyone else the same problem/

I do not know if it is related, but I have observed problems of parts of
some pages not displaying, or displaying as flat rectangles, just after
a Firefox upgrade to 78.15.0esr-1~deb11u1. I downgraded to
78.14.0esr-1+b1 for now.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[harryweaver]

-- 
 Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox. 



29 Nov 2021, 02:22 by terence.j...@gmail.com:

> Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but returns no search 
> result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.
>
> Has anyone else the same problem/
>
>
No problem here, on SID!
Cheers!

Harry.

Re: Off Topic: Firefox and Duckduckgo Failure

[Erwan David]

Le 28/11/2021 à 17:22, Terence a écrit :
Duckduckgo shows its search page in Firefox as normal, but returns no 
search result. It works fine in Chromium as usual.


Has anyone else the same problem/


Works for me (but I do not use the firefox package, I use the upstream 
software)

Re: [Off topic thoughts] Re: debian installation issue

[Joe]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:41:37 +0200
 wrote:


>  "Any sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from
> stupidity"
> 
> (some call that "plausible deniability").
> 
>
"People would rather appear stupid than evil".

-- 
Joe

Re: [Off topic thoughts] Re: debian installation issue

[tomas]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 10:46:34AM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > Secure Boot (Microsoft's attempt to stop you from using Linux)
> 
> Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > While I'm not a fan of Microsoft:
> > > https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot#What_is_UEFI_Secure_Boot_NOT.3
> > > "Microsoft act as a Certification Authority (CA) for SB, and they will
> > > sign programs on behalf of other trusted organisations so that their
> > > programs will also run."
> 
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >  - do you know any other alternative CA besides Microsoft
> >  - is there any internationally legal binding of Microsoft
> 
> Actually it is the mainboard producers and possibly the CPU producers who
> decide who is in charge as CA.

:-)

Yes, I know how it (should) work. I was pointing out what the actual
effect is.

> create an independent institution which authorizes the legitimate
> boot programs which are acceptable by default.

You know I'm a fan of some bastard of Clarke's Third Law and Hanlon's
Razor. In this case, it applies nicely:

 "Any sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from stupidity"

(some call that "plausible deniability").

Now it doesn't help to whine around that "THEY" are cementing their
monopoly (again"). Well, duh. It's what they do, and I do commend
all the hacker's efforts to understand the new machinery some aliens
have dumped on our yards.

I was just toning down our nerdy "Oh, shiny, no more evil maid attacks"
enthusiasm and just refusing to let Microsoft off that hook, although
they are behaving in a halfway civilised way (the monopoly probes
might have some relation to that, who knows).

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> I agree that it is not people-friendly to try preventing the use of a
> video after it was depublicated by state TV. The concept of Depublication
> is technically an unrealistic fiction and also a blow to the payers of
> state TV fees ("Rundfunkgebuehren").
> 
> Given the german judicial principles, the owner (ZDF, as of Michael
> Lange's report here) is obliged to use all reasonable means to enforce its
> legally obliged decision to depublicate the video. So i assume they use
> their copyright claim towards Youtube and others as tool to show this
> reasonable effort.
> 
> I see no indication that the content of the video was the reason for its
> depublication. Such content driven depublication happens from time to
> time, but not silently. Usually it rather enhances the public impact of
> the disliked message.

I understand the general part and partially agree - though it is disputable
if such lows ("Rundfunkgebuehren") are contemporary.
For this specific documentary I do not know, because there are many other
documentaries on YT that are still available.
It is very hard to not slip into conspiracy because even in the documentary
they say that the studies performed by the French Government, VW and Audi
showed that such vehicles become green after 20km and that the media
refused to publish the studies, because it is damageing the image of EVs.

Anyway - I was trying to not download any video I like, but just to bookmark
the link to the video. This story here emerged from the sneaking
dictatorship of big corporations and governments and went off line.

There is definitely less freedom than in 2007. There is more spying,
censorship and aggression from left and right.

As for the HTML5 it is obviously hard to make a parser (there are roughly 2
engines that can handle HTML5 well) so there is also less freedom here.

Hence my conclusion that we enter middle/dark ages of modern world

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Joe]

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:51:59 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:


> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.
> 

Even the WEF are fairly upfront about it:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/the-dirty-secret-of-electric-vehicles/

-- 
Joe

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> > environmental hog"), sung by a children choir

Michael Lange wrote:
> Still seems to be available on yt, though.

Legally it could now be "Zeitgeschichte" (= "contemporary history") and
thus be exempted from the obligation to depublish it.
But since WDR as the copyright owner retracted it, it rather could be due
to the technical unfeasability of depublication.

My best theory is that they have a good media consultant who told them
that any publicly visible attention to this song would start a new wave
of ridiculing the wobbly backbone of WDR.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> > environmental problems with electrical cars.

deloptes wrote:
> But it was on youtube and was removed and I could not find it

I agree that it is not people-friendly to try preventing the use of a video
after it was depublicated by state TV. The concept of Depublication is
technically an unrealistic fiction and also a blow to the payers of state TV
fees ("Rundfunkgebuehren").

Given the german judicial principles, the owner (ZDF, as of Michael Lange's
report here) is obliged to use all reasonable means to enforce its legally
obliged decision to depublicate the video. So i assume they use their
copyright claim towards Youtube and others as tool to show this reasonable
effort.

I see no indication that the content of the video was the reason for its
depublication. Such content driven depublication happens from time to
time, but not silently. Usually it rather enhances the public impact of the
disliked message.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:51:59 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

(...)
> The reason for not eternally offering videos for download is in the
> legal framework of german state TV. (In german:
> "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag", now "Medienstaatsvertrag".)
> 
> State run TV collects mandatory fees from all households for the purpose
> of broadcasting radio and TV. When the internet became important for
> publishing, the private german newspaper publishers and TV stations
> objected that the state run TV used those fees for financing a strong
> web appearance. The compromise, which is now law, was the rule that
> videos and audio are publicly available only for a limited time.
>   
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96ffentlich-rechtlicher_Rundfunk#Engagement_im_Internet
>   https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depublizieren
> 

I know, but that does not really explain why they bother to block
third-party uploads on yt, there are lots of material there hwre they
apparently don't care, like these two quickly collected examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhGC1O0gZNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnH10TfhkOQ

> We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
> the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
> WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
> complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
>   https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637

Yeah, I remember that one, and particularly its aftermath; is there an
English word for "Realsatire"? Priceless! :-)

Still seems to be available on yt, though.

> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.

Sure, I agree about that. For some reason they care enough to make yt
block the video for Germany, but that has nothing to do with
"censorship". It think it might even be possible that they found enough
factual errors in the film that they prefer to withdraw it.

Regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Vulcans never bluff.
-- Spock, "The Doomsday Machine", stardate 4202.1

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
> the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
> environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
> WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
> complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
>
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637
> 
> But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
> environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
> available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.

But it was on youtube and was removed and I could not find it

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Michael Lange wrote:
> Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
> for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
> any further.

The reason for not eternally offering videos for download is in the legal
framework of german state TV. (In german: "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag", now
"Medienstaatsvertrag".)

State run TV collects mandatory fees from all households for the purpose
of broadcasting radio and TV. When the internet became important for
publishing, the private german newspaper publishers and TV stations
objected that the state run TV used those fees for financing a strong
web appearance. The compromise, which is now law, was the rule that
videos and audio are publicly available only for a limited time.
  
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96ffentlich-rechtlicher_Rundfunk#Engagement_im_Internet
  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depublizieren

We had cases of self-censoring which led to depublication. I remember
the song "Meine Oma ist 'ne alte Umweltsau" (= "My granny is an old
environmental hog"), sung by a children choir and produced by TV station
WDR in 2019. That video was retracted after conservative politicians
complained about the insult towards their main voter group.
  https://www.sueddeutsche.de/medien/wdr-umweltsau-kinderchor-satire-1.4738637

But i really do not see any such censoring with the video about
environmental problems with electrical cars. It was aired and then
available for two months. Business as good or bad as ever.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 05 May 2021 09:16:55 +0200
deloptes  wrote:

> Michael Lange wrote:
> 
> > now I got curious too.
> > Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the
> > video for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not
> > explained any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to
> > earn money by somehow selling their documentary to the audience.
> 
> You are saying you can not open the link (may be better to say watch the
> video) in Germany?!
> But this is not ZDF video - it is ARTE documentary. 
> Please share information. I am sitting in Austria and I can watch and I
> am downloading right now.
> 

as I said, it is blocked in Germany, and according to what yt says it
looks like ZDF holds copyrights for Germany.
My guess is that the film was produced by some third party and the German
copyrights were purchased by ZDF and then passed on to Arte (it is not
unusual that ZDF produced material is actually shown on Arte, there is
obviously some sort of cooperation between those two). Maybe it was even
some sort of international co-production. Personally I don't care enough
to further investigate, you can certainly see the details during the
closing credits.
But all this is really far off-topic here, so i guess this discussion
should better come to an end.
I hope you enjoy the film!

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

There is a multi-legged creature crawling on your shoulder.
-- Spock, "A Taste of Armageddon", stardate 3193.9

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Michael Lange wrote:

> now I got curious too.
> Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
> for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
> any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to earn money by
> somehow selling their documentary to the audience.

You are saying you can not open the link (may be better to say watch the
video) in Germany?!
But this is not ZDF video - it is ARTE documentary. 
Please share information. I am sitting in Austria and I can watch and I am
downloading right now.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Felmon Davis wrote:

> I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I
> found it here: .
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.
> 
> also I wonder if the link will work for you.

Cool. This is great help - THANK YOU! Downloading now. And for the future, I
will be downloading all the videos. I have been downloading only from time
to time.

The question remains - was it removed on purpose and why the
Green-Lobby-Trolls have their videos online.

The link works, I am not in China :) thanks again

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 5 May 2021 01:06:30 +0200 (CEST)
Felmon Davis  wrote:

> On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:
> 
> > Felmon Davis wrote:
> >
> >> you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
> >> at 
> >
> > this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but
> > the one where someone comments on the video is there
> 
> I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I 
> found it here: .
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.
> 
> also I wonder if the link will work for you.

now I got curious too. 
Oddly, it seems like the German public TV station ZDF blocked the video
for Germany due to "intellectual property rights" which are not explained
any further. Maybe the real copyright holders still hope to earn money by
somehow selling their documentary to the audience.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Suffocating together ... would create heroic camaraderie.
-- Khan Noonian Singh, "Space Seed", stardate 3142.8

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:


Felmon Davis wrote:


you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
at 


this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there


I got intrigued (and again apologies for my error!) and weird but I 
found it here: .


I'm pretty sure it's the right video but check.

also I wonder if the link will work for you.

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, deloptes wrote:


Felmon Davis wrote:


you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
at 


this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there


ah, my error!

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[deloptes]

Felmon Davis wrote:

> you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles)
> at 

this is exactly the problem - the original video is not there, but the one
where someone comments on the video is there

Re: [Off topic] videos of german state TV, was Re: HTML syntax.

[Felmon Davis]

On Tue, 4 May 2021, Thomas Schmitt wrote:


Hi,

deloptes wrote:

I just tried to find a video on ARTE


You believe french-german state TV ?



I watched some time ago. Video was called "Umweltsünder E-Auto?"


For the non-germans: = "Environmental Sinner E-Car ?".

(It was a bit exaggerated as in several other documentaries of ARTE,
but also pointed out the problems in the overall environmental balance
sheet of battery driven indivual transport.)



They were forced to remove it :/ from their mediathek and from youtube


German State TV is only allowed to offer its videos for a limited time.
In the case of a documentary it's 12 months. But the usual live span is
only 7 days.
 https://www.daserste.de/specials/ueber-uns/verweildauer-100.html
 Sections "Rundfunkstaatsvertrag" and "Auch mehr als 7 Tage"

The video in question was available from 24 november 2020 to 22 January
2021. This is mentioned in a follow-up audio critique by german state radio:
 
https://www.swr.de/swr2/film-und-serie/umweltsuender-e-auto-unnoetig-verteufelt-100.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas




you can view it on youtube (if that's compliant with your principles) 
at 


fjd

--
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: [Off-topic] When in Rome...

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> FWIW, I did, once, for a couple of days. With a fully loaded bicycle,
> (after riding ~2000Km to get there, but that's another story).
> 
> I must admit that I was a bit scared. Turned out to be *extremely*
> relaxed, much more so than other cities I was used to. My guess is
> that the other drivers perceived us as a kind of strange-looking and
> *very* slow Vespa. More predictable, and thus easy to deal with :)
> 

Bicycle in Rome?! Not good for the lungs anyway. I've been driving a lot in
Italy. It is a good example for relative perseption of reality. To
understand what I mean go drive a car in Egypt. Compared Egypt to Rome is
like comparing Rome to Berlin or Hamburg.

> Back to topic (or well: pop the topic stack): to halfway function
> you'll need the assumption that not everyone is out to kill you.
> Everything else goes as pathological disorder, for a reason.
> 
> Of course, taking precautions that not everyone will manage not
> (unintentionally) killing you may prolong your life span.

This also shows how important the context of such ideas is. In some
countries you can not just walk wherever and whenever you want. So in such
a case you make precautions that will help you come home alive at the end.

Re: off-topic: URIBL_BLACK

[황병희]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> Hi,
>
> 황병희 wrote:
>> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=4.0 [...]URIBL_BLACK[...]
>> [...]
>> i got URIBL_BLACK score in SpamAssassin.
>
> Grrr. Why are spam slanderers and virus scammers allowed to interfere
> with Debian ?
> Debian 10 installs a Firefox which accuses Debian ISOs of being malware
> and now our mailing list asks URIBL about the reputation of people's ISPs.
>
>   http://uribl.com/faq.shtml
>   "Can you tell me why my domain is blacklisted?
>No. [...]"
>
> I did not find a page yet where they would sell permissions to spam.
> But an honest libel service is nearly as bad as a bribable one.
>
> We cannot stop them, but we should not support them by including their
> info in spam decisions of Debian lists.
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>

You save me from dark side force. Thank you! Thomas^^^

Sicnerely, Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: off-topic: URIBL_BLACK

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

황병희 wrote:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=4.0 [...]URIBL_BLACK[...]
> [...]
> i got URIBL_BLACK score in SpamAssassin.

Grrr. Why are spam slanderers and virus scammers allowed to interfere
with Debian ?
Debian 10 installs a Firefox which accuses Debian ISOs of being malware
and now our mailing list asks URIBL about the reputation of people's ISPs.

  http://uribl.com/faq.shtml
  "Can you tell me why my domain is blacklisted?
   No. [...]"

I did not find a page yet where they would sell permissions to spam.
But an honest libel service is nearly as bad as a bribable one.

We cannot stop them, but we should not support them by including their
info in spam decisions of Debian lists.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [Off-topic]

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:14 PM Diagonal Arg  wrote:

> On 7/12/19 9:57 AM, Reco wrote:
>
> >   Hi.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 08:52:57AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> >>> To me, Bigcorp is like state (minus First Amendment).
> >>
> >> Businesses don't have armies.
> >
> > Or do they?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide
>
> They now even have mini-states, thanks to the Kochs and the Cato Institute:
>

Well, they have a maxi-state too. The takeover is not yet 100% but quite
close:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

One of the turning points was the legal precedent that corporations were
separate legal entities.
After that, the people in charge of them could not be personally held
legally responsible for their
actions as corporate officers. Only the paper corporation. So for example
no pharmaceutical
executive will go to prison for pushing narcotics on Americans. Only the
paper corp will have to pay damages,
and they will write-off their losses on their taxes. So the American
taxpayer picks up their tab.
Rich men and women skate again :-)


>
> https://www.alternet.org/2015/01/nightmare-libertarian-project-push-one-central-american-country-through-massive-privitization/
>
> > Reco
>
> Dave.
>
>

Re: [Off-topic]

[Diagonal Arg]

On 7/12/19 9:57 AM, Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 08:52:57AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
>>> To me, Bigcorp is like state (minus First Amendment).
>>
>> Businesses don't have armies.
> 
> Or do they?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide

They now even have mini-states, thanks to the Kochs and the Cato Institute:

https://www.alternet.org/2015/01/nightmare-libertarian-project-push-one-central-american-country-through-massive-privitization/

> Reco

Dave.

Re: [Off-topic]

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 08:52:57AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > To me, Bigcorp is like state (minus First Amendment).
> 
> Businesses don't have armies.

Or do they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide

Reco

Re: [Off-topic]

[tomas]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 08:52:57AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomas writes:
> > You can't easily monetize mail (the interfaces are standard, for a
> > consumer it's easy to change providers)
> 
> Gmail.  The only interface that matters to most people is the user
> interface they see in their browser and that is not standardized.
> 
> > I have the impression you're being blindsided by ideology there.
> 
> I don't suffer from that disease (which is pretty much the same as
> religion).

Famous Last Words (TM).

> > To me, Bigcorp is like state (minus First Amendment).
> 
> Businesses don't have armies.

Says who?

> > I had early and intense religious education.  Not trying to offend
> > anyone, but I had my share of devil and then some. These days I prefer
> > to make do without
> 
> If you still believe in evil you haven't entirely overcome your
> religious indoctrination.

Of course I don't believe in "evil". What's there to believe in?
Still there are actions I'd describe as evil. It's a useful
adjective, as are "red" or "bitter" or "tenuous".

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Off topic: Carbon.

[John Hasler]

Joe wrote:
> "Does history record any case in which the majority was right?"
> R A Heinlein

Does history record any case in which the opinion of the majority was
actually known and recorded correctly and objectively?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Joe]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:00:10 +0300
Georgios  wrote:

> Personally
> Right or wrong are highly subjective. Besides that right or wrong
> always has to do with your goal. What accomplish your goal is right.
> for example.
> Want to be good a math?
> Well the right thing to do is study after school.
> 
> 
> Socially
> You could say that every society based on its values finds something
> that is considered right by the majority.
> for example.
> Slavery i bet 99% of us would agree that is wrong and would criticize
> it. Slavery was accepted as right a couple hundred years ago.
> 
And punitive levels of taxation are accepted today.

> By the way the last example probably answer to Heinlein.(based on
> today values)
> 
> ps.Just felt that I had to answer that quote. Dont really like what it
> implies. Of course it could be out of context.
> 

There is no context, it was a standalone aphorism.

> On 6/23/19 1:26 PM, Joe wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "Does history record any case in which the majority was right?"
> > 
> > R A Heinlein
> >   

OK, an exaggeration, but a general comment that the mob is almost
always misinformed, often deliberately.

-- 
Joe

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Georgios]

Personally
Right or wrong are highly subjective. Besides that right or wrong always
has to do with your goal. What accomplish your goal is right.
for example.
Want to be good a math?
Well the right thing to do is study after school.


Socially
You could say that every society based on its values finds something
that is considered right by the majority.
for example.
Slavery i bet 99% of us would agree that is wrong and would criticize
it. Slavery was accepted as right a couple hundred years ago.

By the way the last example probably answer to Heinlein.(based on today
values)

ps.Just felt that I had to answer that quote. Dont really like what it
implies. Of course it could be out of context.

On 6/23/19 1:26 PM, Joe wrote:

> 
> "Does history record any case in which the majority was right?"
> 
> R A Heinlein
> 

Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Nicholas Geovanis]

Cool I didn't know it was Marx Bros.
In one of their movies Groucho is hugging a tall blonde who keeps saying
"Hold me closer". Finally he says, "I get any closer I'll be on the other
side of you". :-)

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 11:26 AM Curt  wrote:

> On 2019-06-23, rhkra...@gmail.com  wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 23, 2019 09:55:33 AM Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> >> "If I told you you had beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
> >> -same sketch
> >
> > Something makes me think / remember that was not original with Monty
> Python --
> > I think it was Groucho Marx who said the same thing (or something very
> > similar) before Monty Python.
>
> Wikipedia claims it's Groucho (from the TV show 'You Bet Your Life.'
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Said_You_Had_a_Beautiful_Body_Would_You_Hold_It_Against_Me
>
>
> > I am curious.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> “Decisions are never really made – at best they manage to emerge, from a
> chaos
> of peeves, whims, hallucinations and all around assholery.” – Thomas
> Pynchon
>
>

Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Curt]

On 2019-06-23, rhkra...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Sunday, June 23, 2019 09:55:33 AM Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
>> "If I told you you had beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
>> -same sketch
>
> Something makes me think / remember that was not original with Monty Python 
> -- 
> I think it was Groucho Marx who said the same thing (or something very 
> similar) before Monty Python.

Wikipedia claims it's Groucho (from the TV show 'You Bet Your Life.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Said_You_Had_a_Beautiful_Body_Would_You_Hold_It_Against_Me


> I am curious.
>
>


-- 
“Decisions are never really made – at best they manage to emerge, from a chaos
of peeves, whims, hallucinations and all around assholery.” – Thomas Pynchon

Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[rhkramer]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 09:55:33 AM Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> "If I told you you had beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
> -same sketch

Something makes me think / remember that was not original with Monty Python -- 
I think it was Groucho Marx who said the same thing (or something very 
similar) before Monty Python.

I am curious.

Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Nicholas Geovanis]

"If I told you you had beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
-same sketch

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 3:45 AM Thomas Schmitt  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> deloptes wrote:
> > https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ
>
> Reminds me somewhat of
>   "The Hungarian Phrasebook Sketch"
>   http://www.montypython.net/scripts/phrasebk.php
> (There is a lengthy link list before the sketch text begins.)
>
>   "Publisher: I wish to plead incompetence."
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Joe]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:57:26 +0200
 wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 01:45:25AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science-
> > mainstream supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from
> > real scientists (Not the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung
> > <- these are fake).  
> 
> Mainstream also supports round Earth lie, while we all do know Earth
> is flat.
> 

"Does history record any case in which the majority was right?"

R A Heinlein

-- 
Joe

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[tomas]

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 01:45:25AM +0200, deloptes wrote:

[...]
> too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science- mainstream
> supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from real scientists (Not
> the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung <- these are fake).

Mainstream also supports round Earth lie, while we all do know Earth is
flat.

-- t


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Elmo]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, deloptes wrote:


Elmo wrote:


and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in
English as in German.

part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are
curt because they need fewer words to say things.

first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the
same number of words.


I don't know about this, but presuming imperative as a command and not as a
request is too much for me and on top of this saying "You know what
happens ..." . This is also the 3rd German with repetitive behavior
pattern.


every sane person I know has repetitive behavior patterns.

I suspect the food and/or water and/or education quality in Germany, 
but do not have scientific facts :). The fact is they voted 4 times 
for crook Merkel, which speaks for it self but I do not know of 
course who Thomas Schmitt voted for :) (or the other two 
individuals)


Anyway it was not meant to be a command but a request to stop this CO2 BS.


I think it may be possible you don't know how *you* sound to some. 
this sort of thing happens a lot.


ok, danke for listening!

fjd

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[deloptes]

Elmo wrote:

> and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in
> English as in German.
> 
> part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are
> curt because they need fewer words to say things.
> 
> first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the
> same number of words.

I don't know about this, but presuming imperative as a command and not as a
request is too much for me and on top of this saying "You know what
happens ..." . This is also the 3rd German with repetitive behavior
pattern. I suspect the food and/or water and/or education quality in
Germany, but do not have scientific facts :). The fact is they voted 4
times for crook Merkel, which speaks for it self but I do not know of
course who Thomas Schmitt voted for :) (or the other two individuals)

Anyway it was not meant to be a command but a request to stop this CO2 BS.

regards

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Elmo]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, deloptes wrote:


Thomas Schmitt wrote:


Juhwohl. "Please" with exclamation mark is to be considered imperial.
Tsuck Marsh.



No - you missed some forms in school. For example

Der Imperativ ist im Deutschen sehr gebräuchlich, weil wir hier mit wenigen
Wörtern sagen können, was der andere tun soll. Für Nicht-Muttersprachler
klingt diese Form manchmal etwas unhöflich, das ist aber normalerweise
nicht so gemeint. Natürlich kommt es immer auf den Ton an. Um höflicher zu
klingen, können wir das Wörtchen bitte verwenden.

Beispiel:
   Fahren Sie mich bitte zum Bahnhof!
   Schnallen Sie sich bitte an!
https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ


sounds nonsensical to me. you can say, "I need to get to the train 
station, any chance of a ride? hope I'm not imposing!", in German as 
easily as in English.


and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in 
English as in German.


part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are 
curt because they need fewer words to say things.


first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the 
same number of words.


second, Germans are not necessarily curt.

I wonder if this Lingolia groups spreads similar cultural stereotypes 
about the other languages (or rather, people using those languages)?


I think I'll return to lurking to avoid adding more to this 
unfortunate turn of discussion.


fjd


No idea why you tend to overcomplicate things


I have to admit that
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treibhauseffekt
is much more 4 pi R ^ 2 than
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect



too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science- mainstream
supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from real scientists (Not
the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung <- these are fake).




Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI


Isn't the combination of "youtube" and "think" a classical oxymoron ?


No - it is TED talks - science for people like you and me


If the video is about growing biomass: What grows must rot some day,
unless it gets sedimented. Biomass has to wander from the athmospheric
carbon cycle to the geological cycle in order to get climate-inactive
for a longer time.
I.e. the surplus unearthed carbon must be burried again, not vitalized.

Not to forget that biomass tends to produce methane, which is worse
than carbon dioxide for about twenty years before it becomes carbon
dioxide.


Have a nice day :)


Again too much thinking - you should be making cars, no thinking too much :D
It is repetitive pattern in my experiences - some friends left Germany for
good reasons and they are born Germans.

regards

Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Juhwohl. "Please" with exclamation mark is to be considered imperial.
> Tsuck Marsh.
> 

No - you missed some forms in school. For example

Der Imperativ ist im Deutschen sehr gebräuchlich, weil wir hier mit wenigen
Wörtern sagen können, was der andere tun soll. Für Nicht-Muttersprachler
klingt diese Form manchmal etwas unhöflich, das ist aber normalerweise
nicht so gemeint. Natürlich kommt es immer auf den Ton an. Um höflicher zu
klingen, können wir das Wörtchen bitte verwenden.

Beispiel:
Fahren Sie mich bitte zum Bahnhof!
Schnallen Sie sich bitte an!
https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ

> 
>> No idea why you tend to overcomplicate things
> 
> I have to admit that
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treibhauseffekt
> is much more 4 pi R ^ 2 than
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
> 

too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science- mainstream
supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from real scientists (Not
the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung <- these are fake).

> 
>> Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
> 
> Isn't the combination of "youtube" and "think" a classical oxymoron ?
> 
No - it is TED talks - science for people like you and me

> If the video is about growing biomass: What grows must rot some day,
> unless it gets sedimented. Biomass has to wander from the athmospheric
> carbon cycle to the geological cycle in order to get climate-inactive
> for a longer time.
> I.e. the surplus unearthed carbon must be burried again, not vitalized.
> 
> Not to forget that biomass tends to produce methane, which is worse
> than carbon dioxide for about twenty years before it becomes carbon
> dioxide.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)

Again too much thinking - you should be making cars, no thinking too much :D
It is repetitive pattern in my experiences - some friends left Germany for
good reasons and they are born Germans.

regards

Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[deloptes]

Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> deloptes wrote:
>> Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?
> 

I said please - it is not a command - are you German? Your name sounds
German and your acting as well ;-) - don't get affected, but more often
recently interacting with Germans I make same experience. No idea why you
tend to overcomplicate things and see intentions that do not exist.

> 
>> BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)
> 
> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle, not of the
> unearthing of carbon for oxidation. I'm doing my best to reduce the
> profits which carbon diggers can make from me.
> 

Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

(it is not a command though no please :) )

regards

Off-topic: Action [Was: Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 22.06.19 12:23, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> deloptes wrote:
> > Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?
> 
> 
> > BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)
> 
> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle, not of the
> unearthing of carbon for oxidation. I'm doing my best to reduce the
> profits which carbon diggers can make from me.

Sitting here, in the down under winter, heating with carbon-neutral biomass
as I've done for the last 30 years, doing paperwork to progress my
off-grid 100% solar and biomass (i.e. stored solar) powered rural build,
I'd suggest that moving at least 2m above current sea level before the
end of the century, is not wasted effort.

> But i am not a teenager any more. So i am glad to see how well they are
> doing their job of annoying us in a constructive way.

Not all old folk are slow learners. I'm 65, and am accelerating the
action I've been taking for over three decades. What we're seeing
socially is the late adopters finally catching on. (Including bankers
and insurers, showing the problem is not imminent - it is here now.)

With Chennai running out of water now, and the Himalayas losing 1% of
snow mass yearly (28% already gone), the CIA's projection of water wars
by 2030 is optimistic, I expect. Here, in southern Australia, our farm
is destocked, because the last dam, dug in a watercourse, deepened to 6
metres, has run dry. Neighbours dams have been dry for a year. Never
before has there been no water at all.

The national (arguably vanity) rice crop over the last three years is:
807,000 ; 635,000 ; 52,000 tonnes. Hay prices have tripled, despite a
steady high stock slaughter rate. Usually one of the world's largest
wheat exporters, we are now importing increasing quantities to try to
keep core breeding stock alive. 

The extra 1 billion human mouths to feed every 12 years puts increasing
strain on decreasing food supply reliability. Loss of farmland to
suburbia is compounding the problem, also due to water use.

Feedback effects are small snowballs yet, but measurably growing:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190612-the-poisons-released-by-melting-arctic-ice

We're slow to the party down here, but even we can pick up our game:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-14/australias-largest-solar-and-battery-farm-opens-in-kerang/11209666

Let's all act before "Children as young as 10 were being sent to fetch
water a train ride away, hauling back containers of water almost as big
as they were." becomes symptomatic of the next generation's fate:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-22/chennais-telling-the-globe-a-story-about-water-scarcity/11229084

Erik

Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

[tomas]

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 12:23:02PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> deloptes wrote:
> > Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?

:-)

> > BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)

So am I, BTW. Nature hasn't endowed us with photosynthesis, alas.

> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle [...]

> [...] i am glad to see how well they are
> doing their job of annoying us in a constructive way.

+1, on both accounts!

Cheers
-- t


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Re: Off topic: non zero error codes

[tomas]

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 05:21:38AM +, Erik Josefsson wrote:
> Good morning,
> 
> I have wanted to ask for a long time about something I made up from
> hearsay whether it is remotely true. I hope that's OK.
> 
> Is there is a shell/language where the returncode for TRUE is zero
> and that that is the opposite of how all other shells/languages are
> made?
> 
> The argument for creating it was that it then becomes handier to say
> "no errors, one error, two errors..." than to say "success, one
> error, two errors...".
> 
> I mean: (0, 1, 2, ...) is handier than (1, 0, whatever, ...).

Yes... and no.

What you are referring to is the UNIX convention, that programs
deliver an integer code at exit, which is typically interpreted
as "error code" -- thus zero => no error. This is a convention,
though, so programs don't have to stick to that.

The more official name is "exit code", and each civilised manual
page will have a section on these.

See f.ex. man curl(1) for one very extensive specimen.

So it won't come as a surprise that the shell, which was born to
invoke programs (and to react to their diverse (mis-)adventures)
interprets an exit code of zero as "OK", "all went well" and
so on -- while interpreting everything else as "uh-oh, perhaps
tell the user that something went wrong".

This convention mirrors the one found in the "classical" C
programming style.

Cheers
-- tomás 


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Re: Off topic: non zero error codes

[Linux-Fan]

Erik Josefsson writes:


Good morning,

I have wanted to ask for a long time about something I made up from hearsay
whether it is remotely true. I hope that's OK.

Is there is a shell/language where the returncode for TRUE is zero and that
that is the opposite of how all other shells/languages are made?


Yes, there is. It is called POSIX shell. Other shells have adpoted the
concept as well, e.g. Bash.

Try:

$ true
$ echo $?
0

$ false
$ echo $?
1


The argument for creating it was that it then becomes handier to say "no
errors, one error, two errors..." than to say "success, one error, two
errors...".


I think it stems from two different traditions:

* One is to use ``error codes'' to show that something went wrong and 0 if
  everything is OK.

* The other is to have a function report ``true'' (commonly 1) on success and
  ``false'' (commonly 0) on error.

One can see both traditions used in different styles of C-programs -- some
more advanced programming languages provide the concept of  Exceptions to
avoid these situations, although it is not always consistent even in
comparably new programming languages like Java.

For program execution from the shell, the ``error codes''-idea is applied
and as `true` and `false` are just programs which can be run from the POSIX
shell, the counter-intuitive use of `true` ~ 0 and `false` ~ 1 can be
explained.

HTH
LInux-Fan

[...]


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Re: [Off-topic] Was: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Nicolas George]

Default User (2018-09-04):
> Is this the mailing list for the Debian GNU/Linux computer operating
> system?

Apparently, a few people consider that since this list is named
"debian-user" and they actually use Debian, they can use it as their
private gossip room. The rudeness of some people is boundless.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: [Off-topic] Was: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Default User]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, 14:43 John Hasler  wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > In my case that would have been Korea. I was quite ready to find a
> > steady and make a few babies, but not if I was going to get drafted
> > and killed.  So I had the board move my name to the top of the list,
> > but I made a mistake on the AFQT and scored a 98, condeming me to
> > carrying a little yellow card proclaiming I was 4F'd for the next 40
> > years. They didn't want anyone who could think for hisself because he
> > wouldn't obey orders.
>
> I tried that.  Didn't work.  The Army had a lot of radio and telecom
> equipment that needed fixing.  They did try to get me to go to OCS, but
> I wasn't stupid enough to accept.  I milked the invitation for all it
> was worth, though.  The CO of my Basic company was an OCS graduate so I
> got to spend time the other guys spent doing pushups in his office
> listening to his sales pitch.  Eventually he caught on.
> --
> John Hasler
> jhas...@newsguy.com
> Elmwood, WI USA
>


Is this the mailing list for the Debian GNU/Linux computer operating
system?

: )

Re: [Off-topic] Was: mailing list vs "the futur"

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 September 2018 14:15:01 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > macht nichts. Doesn't make any difference IOW, they are all bad.
>
> But the Great War was also "The War To End All Wars".  Seems to have
> worked, eventually.  Nobody declares war any more.
>
No, they just get called terrorists.

> > Mans inhumanity to man knows no bounds and leaves the participants
> > in the ditches with what we call PTSD today.  Then it was "shell
> > shock", same thing they've now given it a "better" name of PTSD
>
> "Shell shock" initially was assumed to result from bombardment. It was
> never well-defined and has fallen out of use. "Combat stress reaction"
> refers to an acute (that is, prompt) psychiatric reaction to combat
> stress and covers most of what used to be called "shell shock". It
> becomes PTSD if it persists for long enough.
>
> We're going to get flamed again for being off-topic.

Thats Godwins Law isn't it? But I'll have to agree, we've about wore it 
out.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic: uptime question

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

> This function is made for the formatting of *dates*, not *time intervals.
>
> That would mean that you might get even funnier results if your uptime
> is more than (around) 30-31 days.

I did understand. For now my chromebook uptime is over 30 days, thanks!

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: off topic: uptime question

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

In Article <17430759904711630...@scdbackup.webframe.org>,
 "Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> [...]
> (You should better compute the time interval days from the seconds
>  difference. %d will probably rollover at 31.)

Thank you for good point, indeed;;;

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: off topic: uptime question

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Byung-Hee wrote:
> uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%d days %H:%M")
> Ruby: 28 days 09:23 (Tue Sep 26 15:19:58 +0900 2017)
> Bash: 00:43:33 up 27 days,  9:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.21

Google sent me to
  https://apidock.com/ruby/DateTime/strftime

My guess is that ruby's "%d - Day of the month" begins counting at 1
whereas bash begins at 0 days.

(You should better compute the time interval days from the seconds
 difference. %d will probably rollover at 31.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: off topic: uptime question

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:50:03AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) wrote:
> #+BEGIN_SRC ruby
> require "date"
> 
> uptime_data = IO.read('/proc/uptime').split[0].to_i
> sboot = Time.now - uptime_data
> 
> if uptime_data >= 86400
>   uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%d days %H:%M")
> else
>   uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%H:%M")
> end
> 
> puts uptime.to_s + " (" + sboot.to_s + ")"
> #+END_SRC
> 
> Then i do ruby cmd and shell cmd at Ubuntu (chromebook).
> Ruby: 28 days 09:23 (Tue Sep 26 15:19:58 +0900 2017)
> Bash: 00:43:33 up 27 days,  9:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.21
> 
> Why the result is different? Ruby result is more 1 day than shell result.
> Guide me please... thanks in advance^^^
> 
> Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

This is more of a Ruby question. *If* (a big if, I don't know Ruby that well)
strftime is similar to the Unix library function strftime, the "%d" placeholder
you use there stands for the "day of the month", which counts from one, not from
zero. This function is made for the formatting of *dates*, not *time intervals.

That would mean that you might get even funnier results if your uptime
is more than (around) 30-31 days.

If that is the case I fear you'll have to find other conversion functions
or write up something yourself.

HTH
- -- tomás
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Re: off topic! What is the error in this script

[David Wright]

On Mon 26 Jun 2017 at 09:24:40 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 06:30:18PM +0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> > Dominic Knight [2017-06-25 15:35:46+01] wrote:
> > 
> > > To convert a series of .flac files to .mp3 files I attempted to use the
> > > following line;
> > >
> > >> $ find -name "*.flac" -exec bash -c 'ffmpeg -i "{}" -y -acodec
> > > libmp3lame -ab 320k "${0/.flac}.mp3"' {} \;
> 
> Teemu has highlighted one of the bugs here:
> 
> > The arguments for "bash -c" go like this:
> > 
> > bash -c '...' name one two three
> 
> The other bug is that you are have {} inside of a larger argument to
> find -exec.  This is "allowed" by GNU find (a horrible misfeature of
> the GNU implementation), but is not allowed by other implementations
> of find, because it leads directly to a code injection vulnerability.
> 
> (You are also using the implicit "." starting path for find, which is
> another GNU extension.  This one is not a security problem, just a
> portability problem.)
> 
> > And in '...' the arguments are in variables $0 (=name), $1 (=one), $2
> > (=two), $3 (=three) etc. So:
> > 
> > find -name "*.flac" -exec \
> > bash -c 'ffmpeg -i file:"$1" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k -y 
> > file:"${1%.flac}.mp3"' \
> > foo {} \;
> > 
> > Note the "foo": it is saved to $0 ("shell's name") and and then the
> > actual filename is in usual first positional parameter $1. We also want
> > to have explicitl "file:" protocol with ffmpeg so that any "something:"
> > prerix in filename is not interpreted as a protocol name. (See "man
> > ffmpeg-protocols".)
> > 
> > But here's another way without double quoting:
> > 
> > while read -r -d $'\0' input; do
> > ffmpeg -i file:"$input" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k \
> > -y file:"${input%.flac}.mp3"
> > done < <(find . -name '*.flac' -print0)
> 
> $'\0' is just the same as ''.  Also, you need to set IFS to the empty
> string for this read, to suppress trimming of leading/trailing IFS
> whitespace characters in filenames.
> 
> while IFS= read -r -d '' input; do ...
> 
> I'd probably add -type f to the find command.
> 
> Finally, ffmpeg is known to have an issue inside loops that read
> from stdin.  Specifically, ffmpeg is one of those programs that reads
> all available stdin, which means the loop will only run once, with the
> other filenames being slurped up by ffmpeg with unpredictable results.
> ssh is another such program.
> 
> There are two workarounds for that:
> 
> 1) Add  
> 2) Use a file descriptor other than stdin for the outer while loop.
>For example,
> 
>  while IFS= read -r -d '' input <&3; do
>  ffmpeg -i file:"$input" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k \
>  -y file:"${input%.flac}.mp3"
>  done 3< <(find . -type f -name '*.flac' -print0)

While it's laudable to write command lines such as these, I can't help
being reminded of perl obfuscation contests.

I've been recording radio/TV programmes/vinyl discs/whatever for years,
and generating mp3 files from them (and from MIDI/youtube-type files).
I have bash functions for handling the different sources, targets
("faithful", or compressed for noisy backgrounds, or wav for further
processing), and processes (gapless concatenation or individual
tracks). They're named [s]2mp3[x] where s is for concatenating
the inputs, and x with compression.

This means you haven't got to remember how to apply your preferred
bitrates, compression parameters and so on, and the functions can look
after output directory creation, preservation of timestamps, and any
other housekeeping tasks.

Just a suggestion…

Cheers,
David.

Re: off topic! What is the error in this script

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 06:30:18PM +0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Dominic Knight [2017-06-25 15:35:46+01] wrote:
> 
> > To convert a series of .flac files to .mp3 files I attempted to use the
> > following line;
> >
> >> $ find -name "*.flac" -exec bash -c 'ffmpeg -i "{}" -y -acodec
> > libmp3lame -ab 320k "${0/.flac}.mp3"' {} \;

Teemu has highlighted one of the bugs here:

> The arguments for "bash -c" go like this:
> 
> bash -c '...' name one two three

The other bug is that you are have {} inside of a larger argument to
find -exec.  This is "allowed" by GNU find (a horrible misfeature of
the GNU implementation), but is not allowed by other implementations
of find, because it leads directly to a code injection vulnerability.

(You are also using the implicit "." starting path for find, which is
another GNU extension.  This one is not a security problem, just a
portability problem.)

> And in '...' the arguments are in variables $0 (=name), $1 (=one), $2
> (=two), $3 (=three) etc. So:
> 
> find -name "*.flac" -exec \
> bash -c 'ffmpeg -i file:"$1" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k -y 
> file:"${1%.flac}.mp3"' \
> foo {} \;
> 
> Note the "foo": it is saved to $0 ("shell's name") and and then the
> actual filename is in usual first positional parameter $1. We also want
> to have explicitl "file:" protocol with ffmpeg so that any "something:"
> prerix in filename is not interpreted as a protocol name. (See "man
> ffmpeg-protocols".)
> 
> But here's another way without double quoting:
> 
> while read -r -d $'\0' input; do
> ffmpeg -i file:"$input" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k \
> -y file:"${input%.flac}.mp3"
> done < <(find . -name '*.flac' -print0)

$'\0' is just the same as ''.  Also, you need to set IFS to the empty
string for this read, to suppress trimming of leading/trailing IFS
whitespace characters in filenames.

while IFS= read -r -d '' input; do ...

I'd probably add -type f to the find command.

Finally, ffmpeg is known to have an issue inside loops that read
from stdin.  Specifically, ffmpeg is one of those programs that reads
all available stdin, which means the loop will only run once, with the
other filenames being slurped up by ffmpeg with unpredictable results.
ssh is another such program.

There are two workarounds for that:

1) Add 

Re: off topic! What is the error in this script

[Dominic Knight]

On Sun, 2017-06-25 at 18:30 +0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Dominic Knight [2017-06-25 15:35:46+01] wrote:
> 
> > To convert a series of .flac files to .mp3 files I attempted to use
> > the
> > following line;
> > 
> > > $ find -name "*.flac" -exec bash -c 'ffmpeg -i "{}" -y -acodec
> > 
> > libmp3lame -ab 320k "${0/.flac}.mp3"' {} \;
> 
> The arguments for "bash -c" go like this:
> 
> bash -c '...' name one two three
> 
> And in '...' the arguments are in variables $0 (=name), $1 (=one), $2
> (=two), $3 (=three) etc. So:
> 
> find -name "*.flac" -exec \
> bash -c 'ffmpeg -i file:"$1" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k -y
> file:"${1%.flac}.mp3"' \
> foo {} \;
> 
Thanks Teemu that works perfectly some nicely converted radio shows
now, cheers.

> Note the "foo": it is saved to $0 ("shell's name") and and then the
> actual filename is in usual first positional parameter $1. We also
> want
> to have explicitl "file:" protocol with ffmpeg so that any
> "something:"
> prerix in filename is not interpreted as a protocol name. (See "man
> ffmpeg-protocols".)
> 
I never realised ffmpeg was as capable as that - impressive.

> But here's another way without double quoting:
> 
> while read -r -d $'\0' input; do
> ffmpeg -i file:"$input" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k \
> -y file:"${input%.flac}.mp3"
> done < <(find . -name '*.flac' -print0)
> 
This however doesn't work, what this snippet does is write the first 20
seconds of one of the .flacs to an mp3 (this is also the endpoint of
the opening jingle and so very short break/space in the track, as
produced by audacity - it may work on individual music tracks - not
tested that yet) and then goes off into CPU wonderland tying the
processors up at 100% until killed.

Cheers for the first one though I think I get what is happening in my
first attempt now, bash -c $0 always returned the same name to ffmpeg
for conversion.

Dom.

Re: off topic! What is the error in this script

[Teemu Likonen]

Dominic Knight [2017-06-25 15:35:46+01] wrote:

> To convert a series of .flac files to .mp3 files I attempted to use the
> following line;
>
>> $ find -name "*.flac" -exec bash -c 'ffmpeg -i "{}" -y -acodec
> libmp3lame -ab 320k "${0/.flac}.mp3"' {} \;

The arguments for "bash -c" go like this:

bash -c '...' name one two three

And in '...' the arguments are in variables $0 (=name), $1 (=one), $2
(=two), $3 (=three) etc. So:

find -name "*.flac" -exec \
bash -c 'ffmpeg -i file:"$1" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k -y 
file:"${1%.flac}.mp3"' \
foo {} \;

Note the "foo": it is saved to $0 ("shell's name") and and then the
actual filename is in usual first positional parameter $1. We also want
to have explicitl "file:" protocol with ffmpeg so that any "something:"
prerix in filename is not interpreted as a protocol name. (See "man
ffmpeg-protocols".)

But here's another way without double quoting:

while read -r -d $'\0' input; do
ffmpeg -i file:"$input" -c:a libmp3lame -ab 320k \
-y file:"${input%.flac}.mp3"
done < <(find . -name '*.flac' -print0)

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen   - .-..    //
// PGP: 4E10 55DC 84E9 DFF6 13D7 8557 719D 69D3 2453 9450 ///


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Re: off topic! What is the error in this script

[Wellington Terumi Uemura]

I would do something like...

for f in *.flac; do something $f; done

It will find all your flac files and do whatever.



Em 25 de jun de 2017 11:51, "Dominic Knight" 
escreveu:

> To convert a series of .flac files to .mp3 files I attempted to use the
> following line;
>
> > $ find -name "*.flac" -exec bash -c 'ffmpeg -i "{}" -y -acodec
> libmp3lame -ab 320k "${0/.flac}.mp3"' {} \;
>
> which I expected to find each flac and convert it to a corresponding
> .mp3 however, it reads the first .flac only and rewrites it to all .mp3
> files ie;
>
> for flacs (a1 > a9) it reads a .flac and outputs mp3's (a1 > a9) but
> all mp3's contain the original content of only a1.flac
>
> Where have I gone wrong?
>
> Cheers,
> Dom.
>
>

Re: [off topic] Re: Encrypted flash drives

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > Just wait until you read my alternative facts about the raison d'être
> > of systemd.

kAt wrote:
> I want to read it

If you test

  http://scdbackup.webframe.org/make_isombr_part

as described in
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg01215.html
on your USB stick and afterwards check by some partition editors,
then i will try to compile an exclusive report about the true
origin of systemd.


In exchange for a physically plausible explanation of a light mill,
i would make up a story about why a mirror exchanges left and right
but not up and down.
(Crooke radiometer: turns wrong way around, needs thin gas filling
 and temperature gradient between wheel and glass to work, gaps are
 much too large for any thermal transpiration, ...)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: [off topic] Re: Encrypted flash drives

[kAt]

Thomas Schmitt:
> Hi,
> 
> tomás wrote:
>> Beware of the Sun!
> 
> Says the Oracle ...
> 
>> You often *make* my day, Thomas :-)
> 
> Just wait until you read my alternative facts about the raison d'être
> of systemd.

I want to read it
Except for the last two lines

> Have a nice day :)
> Thomas

U2

Re: [off topic] Re: Encrypted flash drives

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:24:47AM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> tomás wrote:
> > Don't forget Ariadne and the yarn, and give my greetings to the
> > Minotaur ;-)
> 
> Minotaur XP was replaced by the incompatible cyclops-scylla 2.0.
> You will have to replace your old Theseus desktop by the new
> Oddity Experiencer which gives the look-and-feel of a smartphone
> and comes with its own wooden horse emulator.

Not forget the Daedalus framework, supporting the Icarus client.
Beware of the Sun!

> Have a nice day :)

You often *make* my day, Thomas :-)

regards
- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAljY3lMACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbm9QCfUg/smKZn/OpDbDC0Mot7xVRv
qhUAnja2uL/VC4by9Cbd76FG45nRp0Wz
=B3BZ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: off topic -- Gmane (HTTP) is now online!

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

On 2016년 9월 10일 오후 11시 40분 22초 GMT+09:00, "Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)" 
 wrote:
>Just type http://gmane.org in web browser firefox or chrome. 
> (..)

If you have get some bugs such as broken links/newsgroups, please say to 
newsgroup gmane.discuss(gmane-disc...@quimby.gnus.org) please please please!!!

Dear Debian forks,

Thank! Thanks! Thanks!
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Andre Majorel]

On 2016-07-16 13:49 +, Curt wrote:

> She was putting her foot down, but it went into her mouth.

Did she ? In any case, hearing someone from the US poke fun at
the UK for being late in updating their unit system "vaut son
pesant de cacahuètes", as people might say around these parts.
:-)

-- 
André Majorel 
bugs.debian.org, a spambot's best friend.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

On Sat 16 Jul 2016 at 19:46:00 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> NIST does not agree with you.  As for recognizing the metric system and
> making it legal for trade, the USA did that in 1866.  What it has not
> done and what the metrification enthusiasts really want it to do is ban
> the use of the customary system.

It's usual to quote the parts of the post that you're referring to.
As you haven't, I'll just put them back in here.

I wrote:
> On Fri 15 Jul 2016 at 22:48:11 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> > Dennis writes:
> > > BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
> > > keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
> > > arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio?  Then just change it!
> >
> > It wasn't a change in conversion ratio.  It was change in definition.
> > Originally US length measures were defined by a physical standard
> > derived from the British yard such that the inch worked out to close to
> > 2.54cm.  In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm
> 
> Close, but no ciger. The 1866-07-28 length of the US yard was
> preserved at 3600÷3937 of the metre. What changed in 1893 was
> the adoption of the International Standard Metre (21 and 27
> were the ones they received) as the prototype.

In 1893, the “Mendenhall Order” was published as Bulletin 26 of the
Coast and Geodetic Survey. It was republished as Appendix 3 of
“Weights and Measures Standards of the United States a brief history”
in Special Publication 447 of the National Bureau of Standards, which
is NIST's predecessor. It says “The practical effect upon our
customary weights and measures is, of course, nothing. The most
careful study of the relation of the yard and the metre has failed
thus far to show that the relation as defined by Congress in the act
of 1866 is in error.”

A footnote at the end of this paragraph says “NOTE---Reference to the
act of 1866 results in the establishment of the following:
   Equations.

  3600
 1 yard = metre.
  3937   ”

This contradicts the statement “In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm”.

> The change to inch=2.54cm came much later (1959-07-01) and was
> actually expressed as one yard = 0.9144 of the metre. The old foot,
> the US Survey foot, is still used by the National Geodetic Survey
> for the publication of heights. Some states still publish their
> State Plane Coordinates in feet (provided to them by NGS in metres)
> and are at liberty to use either type of foot.

Again from Special Publication 447, §8 (page 20) says “When the
National Bureau of Standards began its work in 1901 the principal
units of weights and measures in the U. S. customary system were
defined as follows:

  3600
 1 yard = metre.
  3937

 1 pound = [...]
 1 gallon = [...]
 1 bushel = [...]

These definitions remained unchanged for 58 years, and the last two
are still the official values.
[...
...] and the United States entered into agreement, effective July 1, 1959,
whereby uniformity was established for use in the scientific and
technical fields. The equivalents 1 yard=0.9144meter (whence 1 inch
=25.4 millimeters) and [...] were adopted for each of these national
laboratories.”

Appendix 5 shows the change in length on 1959 to be about 2ppm, and
also states “Any data expressed in feet derived from and published as
a result of geodetic surveys within the United States will continue to
bear the following relationship as defined in 1893:

 1200
 1 foot= meter
 3937

The foot unit defined by this equation shall be referred to as the US
Survey Foot and it shall continue to be used [...]”
until they readjust the survey networks, which they did in 1983 with
NAD83, superseding NAD27.

The survival of the US Survey Foot to the present time is evidenced
by http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/faq.shtml which says “NGS does NOT have an
"official" conversion factor. NGS works in meters ONLY. NGS only uses
feet to publish SPCs, and those are converted from meters using the
conversion factor as defined by the individual states who have
requested that we publish SPCs in feet.
The only other instance where NGS publishes linear values in feet is
for elevations, i.e., orthometric heights. All computations are still
done in meters, but for publication purposes we convert meters to
feet. That conversion is done using the U.S. Survey Foot conversion
factor. We publish elevations in meters to the nearest millimeter (3
decimal places) and in feet to hundredths of a foot (2 decimal
places). For elevations above 5,000 feet (1,524 meters), the
conversion factor will change the foot value by one in the second
place.”

If NIST does not agree with its own historical publications, could you
please post 

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[John Hasler]

NIST does not agree with you.  As for recognizing the metric system and
making it legal for trade, the USA did that in 1866.  What it has not
done and what the metrification enthusiasts really want it to do is ban
the use of the customary system.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

On Fri 15 Jul 2016 at 22:48:11 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> Dennis writes:
> > BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
> > keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
> > arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio?  Then just change it!
> 
> It wasn't a change in conversion ratio.  It was change in definition.
> Originally US length measures were defined by a physical standard
> derived from the British yard such that the inch worked out to close to
> 2.54cm.  In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm

Close, but no ciger. The 1866-07-28 length of the US yard was
preserved at 3600÷3937 of the metre. What changed in 1893 was
the adoption of the International Standard Metre (21 and 27
were the ones they received) as the prototype.

The change to inch=2.54cm came much later (1959-07-01) and was
actually expressed as one yard = 0.9144 of the metre. The old foot,
the US Survey foot, is still used by the National Geodetic Survey
for the publication of heights. Some states still publish their
State Plane Coordinates in feet (provided to them by NGS in metres)
and are at liberty to use either type of foot.

> and BIPM-supplied meter
> and kilogram standards became the official US measurement standards.  It
> took until 1930 for the Brits to catch up.

Who was first is of little real interest. What's difficult to argue
against is that the Brits have pretty well gone metric with a few
exceptions like distances between towns, beer glasses, and the
freedom to sell milk in pints or litres. The Americans have not.
Even scientists convert their statements into customary units when
they commnicate with the public. And, of course, the most notorious
example of using the wrong units was the $125-million loss of the
Mars Climate Orbiter in 1989 because someone was using pounds-force
instead of Newtons.

At school in the 60s, we used the poundal instead of the
pound-force (on the rare occasions we used Imperial units).
Perhaps this was because the staff were unwilling to teach a
class of children to measure mass in slugs.

Cheers,
David.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 16 July 2016 14:49:30 Curt wrote:
> On 2016-07-16, John Hasler  wrote:
> > Lisi writes:
> >> Not quite accurate...
> >
> > An accurate summary, the point being that it was not a change in
> > conversion factor, it was a change in definition.
>
> She was putting her foot down, but it went into her mouth.

Very witty, but also inaccurate.  My foot was not in my mouth.  The definition 
and the conversion factor both changed in 1959 when the yard was standardised 
in terms of the metre.  And, of course, redefined in 1960 and 1983 when the 
metre itself was redefined, since the yard is now defined in terms of the 
metre.

Lisi

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 16 July 2016 13:21:35 John Hasler wrote:
> Lisi writes:
> > Not quite accurate...
>
> An accurate summary, the point being that it was not a change in
> conversion factor, it was a change in definition.

While we are quibbling, a) the date you gave was wrong and b) the change in 
definition simply didn't come until 1959 and it resulted in a very small 
change in conversion factor. 

Lisi

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Curt]

On 2016-07-16, John Hasler  wrote:
> Lisi writes:
>> Not quite accurate...
>
> An accurate summary, the point being that it was not a change in
> conversion factor, it was a change in definition.

She was putting her foot down, but it went into her mouth.

-- 
Même l’avenir n’est plus ce qu’il était. 
Paul Valéry  

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[John Hasler]

A brief official history of the metric system in the USA:
http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[John Hasler]

Lisi writes:
> Not quite accurate...

An accurate summary, the point being that it was not a change in
conversion factor, it was a change in definition.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Curt]

On 2016-07-16, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Saturday 16 July 2016 04:48:11 John Hasler wrote:
>> Dennis writes:
>> > BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
>> > keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
>> > arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio?  Then just change it!
>>
>> It wasn't a change in conversion ratio.  It was change in definition.
>> Originally US length measures were defined by a physical standard
>> derived from the British yard such that the inch worked out to close to
>> 2.54cm.  In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm and BIPM-supplied meter
>> and kilogram standards became the official US measurement standards.  It
>> took until 1930 for the Brits to catch up.
>
> Not quite accurate, though sufficiently jingoistic.

Give 'em an inch ...

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch
>
> Lisi
>
>


-- 
Même l’avenir n’est plus ce qu’il était. 
Paul Valéry  

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 16 July 2016 04:48:11 John Hasler wrote:
> Dennis writes:
> > BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
> > keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
> > arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio?  Then just change it!
>
> It wasn't a change in conversion ratio.  It was change in definition.
> Originally US length measures were defined by a physical standard
> derived from the British yard such that the inch worked out to close to
> 2.54cm.  In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm and BIPM-supplied meter
> and kilogram standards became the official US measurement standards.  It
> took until 1930 for the Brits to catch up.

Not quite accurate, though sufficiently jingoistic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch

Lisi

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[John Hasler]

Dennis writes:
> BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
> keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
> arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio?  Then just change it!

It wasn't a change in conversion ratio.  It was change in definition.
Originally US length measures were defined by a physical standard
derived from the British yard such that the inch worked out to close to
2.54cm.  In 1893 the inch was defined as 2.54cm and BIPM-supplied meter
and kilogram standards became the official US measurement standards.  It
took until 1930 for the Brits to catch up.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 Jul 2016 at 11:21:25 (-0500), Dennis Wicks wrote:
> Doug wrote on 07/10/2016 10:22 PM:
> >I've seen several places where this definition is shown, so it must be 
> >correct.
> >If you Google
> >for paper weight, there will be at least one site that mentions paper weight 
> >in
> >pounds and
> >also in grams / cm-squared, which may make sense to the Europeans reading 
> >this but
>that would be square-cm.
> >not to me!
> 
> I'm with you!
> 
> Personally, I have never seen a sensible justification for switching
> from one arbitrary measurement system (foot, pound, quart) to
> another arbitrary measurement system (meter, gram, liter).

Is that the International Foot or the US Survey Foot, the Avoirdupois
Pound or the Troy Pound, the Imperial Quart or the US Quart?

But you're just comparing the units here, not the system which also
includes how the units relate to one another. There's a multiplicity
of multiples to with any non-metric system, which we had to learn
at school. 12, 3, 220, 8 for distances, 16, 16, 14, 8, 20 for weight,
4, 2, 4, 2, 4 for volume. That's before you looked at areas, 4840, 640,
and volumes, 2219.36 cu in per bushel. No, we didn't have to learn
that last one.

> BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you haven't been
> keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This is what I mean by
> arbitrary. Don't like the conversion ratio? Then just change it!

The problem with measuring paper by weight is of course that the
amount weighed is never unambiguously specified, and varies
according to what sort of paper is being specified. That's why
I said you need to serve an apprenticeship in printing, so you
can tell whether the paper is bond, cover, Bristol or book,
amongst others... And you have to hope that your supplier uses the
normal basis weight, which is not actually fixed, only conventional.

Cheers,
David.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Dennis Wicks]

Doug wrote on 07/10/2016 10:22 PM:


I've seen several places where this definition is shown, so it must be correct.
If you Google
for paper weight, there will be at least one site that mentions paper weight in
pounds and
also in grams / cm-squared, which may make sense to the Europeans reading this 
but

   that would be square-cm.

not to me!




I'm with you!

Personally, I have never seen a sensible justification for 
switching from one arbitrary measurement system (foot, 
pound, quart) to another arbitrary measurement system 
(meter, gram, liter).


BTW: one inch now equals 2.54 cm *exactly*, in case you 
haven't been keeping up! (Used to be approx 2.54 cm.) This 
is what I mean by arbitrary. Don't like the conversion 
ratio? Then just change it!

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 11 July 2016 07:18:44 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 11 July 2016 05:02:42 David Wright wrote:
> > "Please remember that the greater the "lb"
> > associated with a paper not always determines that it is a thicker
> > sheet. Notice that the 67lb Vellum Bristol has a lower gsm than a
> > 65lb cover because they are two different categories of cardstocks
> > and are scaled differently." (paperworks.com)
>
> I glazed over when Gene started to talk about 28 lbs of paper.  28 lbs
> is 2 stone.  I couldn't carry 28 lbs of paper.

I can, but its done carefully else I damage me back some more.

But put it in this context Lisi, really nice output one usually puts on 
24 lb. A 500 sheet ream is pretty close to 2" thick, just a little long.  
This 28 lb stock is not quite 3" thick for a 500 sheet ream. And I share 
the dislike for 20 lb, it will ocassionaly hang up in the printer, but 
it quietly says cheap if you hand it out too.

The manuals for LinuxCNC run above the 700 page range, so to keep 
reasonably up to date I kill a tree about every 2 years for a fresh 
copy. I do them duplex, on 24 lb & punch for a 3 ring binder.

But since we finally have a decent pdf reader in evince, I am trying to 
break me of reaching for a 10 pound binder that it may take me 15 
minutes to find what I want in it.  That is not productive use of ones 
remaining time.

> I buy paper by the 500 sheets!!  And you don't need to  know what the
> numbers (80 gsm etc) actually mean, though I do.  100 is when you
> really want something to look nice.  120 is thin card, 90 is what I
> used on all documents leaving the house for some years (because I was
> in business) and I now use 80 because I am skinflint in my old age. 
> 70, the once I ever bought it some years ago, caused my printer to jam
> up.
>
> Lisi


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 11 July 2016 05:02:42 David Wright wrote:
> "Please remember that the greater the "lb"
> associated with a paper not always determines that it is a thicker
> sheet. Notice that the 67lb Vellum Bristol has a lower gsm than a 65lb
> cover because they are two different categories of cardstocks and are
> scaled differently." (paperworks.com)

I glazed over when Gene started to talk about 28 lbs of paper.  28 lbs is 2 
stone.  I couldn't carry 28 lbs of paper.

I buy paper by the 500 sheets!!  And you don't need to  know what the numbers 
(80 gsm etc) actually mean, though I do.  100 is when you really want 
something to look nice.  120 is thin card, 90 is what I used on all documents 
leaving the house for some years (because I was in business) and I now use 80 
because I am skinflint in my old age.  70, the once I ever bought it some 
years ago, caused my printer to jam up.

Lisi

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

On Sun 10 Jul 2016 at 23:22:29 (-0400), Doug wrote:
> On 07/10/2016 09:20 PM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:33:37 PM David Wright wrote:
> >> BTW I do find American paper weights about as obfuscated as anything.
[...]
> >> Yes, paper; but how much?
> >
> >From a quick google search:
> >
> >
> >
> >What does 20 lb paper mean? | Yahoo Answers
> >
> >
> >https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid...
> >
> >Jun 4, 2008 - Best Answer: "Paper weight refers to the weight of a
> >500-sheet ream of 17" x 22" paper. Each of these sheets is
> >equivalent to four letter size ...
> >
> >
> >
> I've seen several places where this definition is shown, so it must
> be correct. If you Google
> for paper weight, there will be at least one site that mentions
> paper weight in pounds and
> also in grams / cm-squared, which may make sense to the Europeans
> reading this but
> not to me!

gsm is grams per square metre. The numbers may be unfamiliar to
people in USA/Canada (75gsm is your normal 20lb copy paper) but
as for making sense, it could hardly be simpler---the weight in
grams of a square meter of the actual paper concerned.
Where's the sense in "Please remember that the greater the "lb"
associated with a paper not always determines that it is a thicker
sheet. Notice that the 67lb Vellum Bristol has a lower gsm than a 65lb
cover because they are two different categories of cardstocks and are
scaled differently." (paperworks.com)

Cheers,
David.

Straying further OT, Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

On Sun 10 Jul 2016 at 21:20:39 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:33:37 PM David Wright wrote:
> > BTW I do find American paper weights about as obfuscated as anything.
> > I think you need to serve an apprenticeship in printing to have a clue.
> > There'a website http://okpaper.com/calculators/lbs-to-gsm that claims
> > to do the conversion. Type in 20 lbs and it spits out
> > GSM text 29.6
> > GSM cover 54.16
> > They're not seriously telling me that the standard US paper weight
> > (20lbs) comes out at those gsm values. 80gsm is standard, and if you
> > buy 70gsm at cheap stores, there's a fair chance it'll misfeed in the
> > printer. 60gsm comes in writing tablets and would be hopeless in any
> > machine. (I haven't a clue what "text" and "cover" mean.)
> > Of course, the fundamental problem with the American system is 20 lbs
> > of what? Yes, paper; but how much?
> 
> From a quick google search:
> 
> 
> What does 20 lb paper mean? | Yahoo Answers
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid...
> Jun 4, 2008 - Best Answer: "Paper weight refers to the weight of a 500-sheet 
> ream of 17" x 22" paper. Each of these sheets is equivalent to four letter 
> size ...
> 

Well, that figures. Putting 50lbs into okpaper produces 74gsm which
feels about right, and hand-cranking the numbers using 20lbs of
17" x 22" produces 75.2gsm. So you have to guess what size of sheet to
weigh according to what you think the type of paper might be.
And of course everybody knows that "20 lb. bond" is at other times
referred to as a "50 lb. text weight", whatever that might be.

Pure insanity, with not much enlightenmnt from
http://paperworks.com/about-paper-weights
and a spoonful of confusion from
http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html
which introduces yet another unit called "point", and states
"The Values in the table [...] should not be used as specifications
because there are variances within the same basis weight due to other
characteristics of the papers. Similar weight papers may vary between
different paper manufacturers."

Have you heard the one about measuring lightbulb bases with two dimes
(10¢) and two cans of Campbell's condensed tomato soup? Oh, and a
penny (presumably the 1¢ kind). Seriously:
https://www.harringtonlights.com/Reference/identifying_screw_bases.htm

Cheers,
David.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Doug]

On 07/10/2016 09:20 PM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:


On Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:33:37 PM David Wright wrote:

> BTW I do find American paper weights about as obfuscated as anything.

> I think you need to serve an apprenticeship in printing to have a clue.

> There'a website http://okpaper.com/calculators/lbs-to-gsm that claims

> to do the conversion. Type in 20 lbs and it spits out

> GSM text 29.6

> GSM cover 54.16

> They're not seriously telling me that the standard US paper weight

> (20lbs) comes out at those gsm values. 80gsm is standard, and if you

> buy 70gsm at cheap stores, there's a fair chance it'll misfeed in the

> printer. 60gsm comes in writing tablets and would be hopeless in any

> machine. (I haven't a clue what "text" and "cover" mean.)

> Of course, the fundamental problem with the American system is 20 lbs

> of what? Yes, paper; but how much?

From a quick google search:



What does 20 lb paper mean? | Yahoo Answers 



https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid...

Jun 4, 2008 - Best Answer: "Paper weight refers to the weight of a 
500-sheet ream of 17" x 22" paper. Each of these sheets is equivalent 
to four letter size ...




I've seen several places where this definition is shown, so it must be 
correct. If you Google
for paper weight, there will be at least one site that mentions paper 
weight in pounds and
also in grams / cm-squared, which may make sense to the Europeans 
reading this but

not to me!

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[rhkramer]

On Sunday, July 10, 2016 08:33:37 PM David Wright wrote:
> BTW I do find American paper weights about as obfuscated as anything.
> I think you need to serve an apprenticeship in printing to have a clue.
> There'a website http://okpaper.com/calculators/lbs-to-gsm that claims
> to do the conversion. Type in 20 lbs and it spits out
> GSM text 29.6
> GSM cover 54.16
> They're not seriously telling me that the standard US paper weight
> (20lbs) comes out at those gsm values. 80gsm is standard, and if you
> buy 70gsm at cheap stores, there's a fair chance it'll misfeed in the
> printer. 60gsm comes in writing tablets and would be hopeless in any
> machine. (I haven't a clue what "text" and "cover" mean.)
> Of course, the fundamental problem with the American system is 20 lbs
> of what? Yes, paper; but how much?

From a quick google search:


What does 20 lb paper mean? | Yahoo Answers
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid...
Jun 4, 2008 - Best Answer: "Paper weight refers to the weight of a 500-sheet 
ream of 17" x 22" paper. Each of these sheets is equivalent to four letter 
size ...

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[David Wright]

I'm finding this excahnge harder and harder to follow...

On Sun 10 Jul 2016 at 18:28:31 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 10 July 2016 15:01:42 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Sunday 10 July 2016 19:47:19 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday 10 July 2016 14:26:01 John Hasler wrote:
> > > > Gene writes:
> > > > > Anything but letter, or maybe legal, is special order on this
> > > > > side of the pond.

I understand that, if you live in a small town.

> > > > Lots of outfits such as OfficeMax claim to stock A3.
> > > > http://www.a4supplies.com/ claims to have everthing A size.

At $58-72/ream (20-28lbs), that's a lot more than 11x17 at, say,
Staples: $18-19/ream (20), $60-88/5reams (20-24).

> > >  Uh huh, and thats special order for me in small county seat town
> > > West Virginia. :) Pick up at the local wally's store for a few cents
> > > north of $19 for a 500 sheet ream of fairly smooth paper Is hard to
> > > beat.

That's a good price for 28lbs paper if that's what it is.

> > This is what I mean by special order - look at the prices. :-/
> >
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field
> >-keywords=tabloid+sized+printer+paper&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atabloid+sized+pr
> >inter+paper
> >
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&fie
> >ld-keywords=A4+printer+paper&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AA4+printer+paper
> 
> Pounds to dollars, thats 3x what I just paid for 28 lb well finished copy 
> paper.  Those folks must think you Brits all have your own money tree?

But you'd have to be crazy buying ledger rather than A3 in the UK.

BTW I do find American paper weights about as obfuscated as anything.
I think you need to serve an apprenticeship in printing to have a clue.
There'a website http://okpaper.com/calculators/lbs-to-gsm that claims
to do the conversion. Type in 20 lbs and it spits out
GSM text 29.6
GSM cover 54.16
They're not seriously telling me that the standard US paper weight
(20lbs) comes out at those gsm values. 80gsm is standard, and if you
buy 70gsm at cheap stores, there's a fair chance it'll misfeed in the
printer. 60gsm comes in writing tablets and would be hopeless in any
machine. (I haven't a clue what "text" and "cover" mean.)
Of course, the fundamental problem with the American system is 20 lbs
of what? Yes, paper; but how much?

Cheers,
David.

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 23:51:15 Gene Heskett wrote:
> I've obviously got too many hobbies.

No such thing as too many hobbies!! ;-)

Lisi

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 18:45:05 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Sunday 10 July 2016 23:21:44 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 10 July 2016 14:58:16 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > Does the image cover the whole sheet of paper??
> >
> > I can make it pretty close to borderless with another 1 or 2
> > percentage points of size increase.
>
> I was wondering whether any of the feed problems are due to Te paper
> you are feeding, and what you told it to expect, are different.  Can't
> you set evince to expect American idiosyncrasies??

This printing facility is I believe, tdeprint. No, I just ran it, and 
thats not what I'm looking at. Ahh, I just spied the "e" so its evinces 
own printer driver.
>
> Lisi
>
> > Its a logic flow diagram and to get the text in a logic box big
> > enough to read, it occupies a minimum of 6 sheets of landscape
> > 11x17.  Fairly complex signal flow.  The .hal file that generates it
> > is around 640 lines.  Taping it together and sticking it a about a
> > third of a sheet of thin plywood to make it studyable is about a 1.5
> > hour job by the time the borders are cut away, and its adjusted so
> > all the lines meet when the tape is applied takes 2 cups of coffee
> > and several trips to a well worn diamond plate to keep the knife
> > sharp.  The plate was 800 grit 25 years ago, probably around 8000
> > grit equ now.
> >
> > > On Sunday 10 July 2016 05:09:34 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 09 July 2016 21:51:52 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, July 09, 2016 07:14:24 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > I believe it is. Checking, yes. If that is the correct size,
> > > > > > and its truly borderless when selected as
> > > > > > "tabloid(borderless)", if the paper guidance can be
> > > > > > improved, that would be ideal as when I trimmed it up and
> > > > > > put it on a big sheet of light plywood this morning, I was
> > > > > > trimming about 1/2" from all 4 edges on average. And it was
> > > > > > set for "A3(borderless)" at the time.  What size in our
> > > > > > antiquated inch system is A3?
> > > > >
> > > > > A3 is what I consider a metric size (well, it is an ISO
> > > > > standard)--in inches it is 11.7 x 16.5 in.
> > > >
> > > > Humm, wider but shorter.
> > > >
> > > > > If the only choices on that printer feed door are in the A
> > > > > series of sizes, that may explain why the feed doesn't work to
> > > > > align the paper properly.
> > > >
> > > > I was just trying to set the guides, such as they are, to fit
> > > > the width of the paper, but had to tape then down to hold them
> > > > as it takes only a gram or maybe two to move them, so they slide
> > > > equal amounts in both directions the instant a sheet of paper
> > > > touches them.  Useless design other than the auto center the
> > > > cross coupling enforces if you tape it down so it cannot move.
> > > >
> > > > > I'd start by trimming one sheet of 11x17 paper to 11x16.5 and
> > > > > see if that feeds better.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know how easy it is to buy A series paper in the US.
> > > >
> > > > It feeds the short edge in first, unlike the paper trays, both
> > > > of which can be set for several different sizes, but they both
> > > > feed long edge first. So once its been grabbed, there is still
> > > > about 14.25 inches of paper hanging out in empty space with zero
> > > > guidance because the curl of the paper as it passes over the top
> > > > edge of this "door", lifts the paper a good 1/4" above and
> > > > totally free of the guides. Most worthless design I have ever
> > > > seen.  Paper centering and feed alignment are completely at the
> > > > mercy of the human trying to insert the paper centered and
> > > > square. And I do not believe that if a sheet of Lexan was added
> > > > to extend the paper support for at least 8", and it was screwed
> > > > to the plastic of the door, the stoppers incorporated into the
> > > > plastic hinges would actually survive a sheet of tagboard laying
> > > > on it, combined with the weight of the Lexan, too heavy.  A
> > > > sheet of 28 lb copy paper is ok, but not a hand laying on it.
> > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 17:27:45 David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 10 Jul 2016 at 00:09:34 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > It feeds the short edge in first, unlike the paper trays, both of
> > which can be set for several different sizes, but they both feed
> > long edge first. So once its been grabbed, there is still about
> > 14.25 inches of paper hanging out in empty space with zero guidance
> > because the curl of the paper as it passes over the top edge of this
> > "door", lifts the paper a good 1/4" above and totally free of the
> > guides. Most worthless design I have ever seen.  Paper centering and
> > feed alignment are completely at the mercy of the human trying to
> > insert the paper centered and square. And I do not believe that if a
> > sheet of Lexan was added to extend the paper support for at least
> > 8", and it was screwed to the plastic of the door, the stoppers
> > incorporated into the plastic hinges would actually survive a sheet
> > of tagboard laying on it, combined with the weight of the Lexan, too
> > heavy.  A sheet of 28 lb copy paper is ok, but not a hand laying on
> > it.
>
> Could you attach your Lexan to a wall behind the printer and then
> push the printer close to the Lexan to leave only a small gap for
> the paper to have to cross? Like (if your unicode is up to it):
>
I gave up on the lexan idea, as too heavy and thick.  Some 3/4" mahogany 
strips glue to a sheet of 28 gauge alu are about whats needed, with 
another strip of thin oak under the front edge of the alu.  Some screws 
so the heads hit the end of the door when I lay the front 1/4 of alu on 
the door will serve to align it angularly, while two more bits of thin 
wood attached to the underside runners that support the oak, so each one 
can be adjusted to center it up by pushing on the sides of the door on 
the existing guides need to be fitted yet, and another strip underneath 
it at the rear to serve as a lift handle for one hand, while the other 
encourages to paper to go in and be picked up by the feed grippers.  It 
will slide in far enough to beep by the weight of the paper, but needs 
help to get it to close the grippers on the end of the paper.  Tomorrows 
project now as I got sidetracked working on the Sheldon lathes CNC 
conversion, while glue was setting on this thing.

I've obviously got too many hobbies.

> ┊←wall
> ┊
> ┊ ↙ Lexan (should be a shallower angle)
> ┊  ╲
> ┊   ┌┐←printer (push it towards Lexan)
> ┊   ┊┊
> └╌╌╌┴┴╌╌╌ ←tabletop
>
> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 23:21:44 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 10 July 2016 14:58:16 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Does the image cover the whole sheet of paper??
>
> I can make it pretty close to borderless with another 1 or 2 percentage
> points of size increase.

I was wondering whether any of the feed problems are due to Te paper you are 
feeding, and what you told it to expect, are different.  Can't you set evince 
to expect American idiosyncrasies??

Lisi
>
> Its a logic flow diagram and to get the text in a logic box big enough to
> read, it occupies a minimum of 6 sheets of landscape 11x17.  Fairly
> complex signal flow.  The .hal file that generates it is around 640
> lines.  Taping it together and sticking it a about a third of a sheet of
> thin plywood to make it studyable is about a 1.5 hour job by the time
> the borders are cut away, and its adjusted so all the lines meet when
> the tape is applied takes 2 cups of coffee and several trips to a well
> worn diamond plate to keep the knife sharp.  The plate was 800 grit 25
> years ago, probably around 8000 grit equ now.
>
> > On Sunday 10 July 2016 05:09:34 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 09 July 2016 21:51:52 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, July 09, 2016 07:14:24 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > I believe it is. Checking, yes. If that is the correct size, and
> > > > > its truly borderless when selected as "tabloid(borderless)", if
> > > > > the paper guidance can be improved, that would be ideal as when
> > > > > I trimmed it up and put it on a big sheet of light plywood this
> > > > > morning, I was trimming about 1/2" from all 4 edges on average.
> > > > > And it was set for "A3(borderless)" at the time.  What size in
> > > > > our antiquated inch system is A3?
> > > >
> > > > A3 is what I consider a metric size (well, it is an ISO
> > > > standard)--in inches it is 11.7 x 16.5 in.
> > >
> > > Humm, wider but shorter.
> > >
> > > > If the only choices on that printer feed door are in the A series
> > > > of sizes, that may explain why the feed doesn't work to align the
> > > > paper properly.
> > >
> > > I was just trying to set the guides, such as they are, to fit the
> > > width of the paper, but had to tape then down to hold them as it
> > > takes only a gram or maybe two to move them, so they slide equal
> > > amounts in both directions the instant a sheet of paper touches
> > > them.  Useless design other than the auto center the cross coupling
> > > enforces if you tape it down so it cannot move.
> > >
> > > > I'd start by trimming one sheet of 11x17 paper to 11x16.5 and see
> > > > if that feeds better.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know how easy it is to buy A series paper in the US.
> > >
> > > It feeds the short edge in first, unlike the paper trays, both of
> > > which can be set for several different sizes, but they both feed
> > > long edge first. So once its been grabbed, there is still about
> > > 14.25 inches of paper hanging out in empty space with zero guidance
> > > because the curl of the paper as it passes over the top edge of this
> > > "door", lifts the paper a good 1/4" above and totally free of the
> > > guides. Most worthless design I have ever seen.  Paper centering and
> > > feed alignment are completely at the mercy of the human trying to
> > > insert the paper centered and square. And I do not believe that if a
> > > sheet of Lexan was added to extend the paper support for at least
> > > 8", and it was screwed to the plastic of the door, the stoppers
> > > incorporated into the plastic hinges would actually survive a sheet
> > > of tagboard laying on it, combined with the weight of the Lexan, too
> > > heavy.  A sheet of 28 lb copy paper is ok, but not a hand laying on
> > > it.
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 15:01:42 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Sunday 10 July 2016 19:47:19 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 10 July 2016 14:26:01 John Hasler wrote:
> > > Gene writes:
> > > > Anything but letter, or maybe legal, is special order on this
> > > > side of the pond.
> > >
> > > Lots of outfits such as OfficeMax claim to stock A3.
> > > http://www.a4supplies.com/ claims to have everthing A size.
> >
> >  Uh huh, and thats special order for me in small county seat town
> > West Virginia. :) Pick up at the local wally's store for a few cents
> > north of $19 for a 500 sheet ream of fairly smooth paper Is hard to
> > beat.
>
> This is what I mean by special order - look at the prices. :-/
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field
>-keywords=tabloid+sized+printer+paper&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atabloid+sized+pr
>inter+paper
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&fie
>ld-keywords=A4+printer+paper&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AA4+printer+paper

Pounds to dollars, thats 3x what I just paid for 28 lb well finished copy 
paper.  Those folks must think you Brits all have your own money tree?

> The only Wally's I could find was a delicatessen.  Do you mean
> Walmart?

Yes'm.  Thats the place. :)

> Lisi


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: off topic Question of the day..

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 10 July 2016 14:58:16 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> Does the image cover the whole sheet of paper??

I can make it pretty close to borderless with another 1 or 2 percentage 
points of size increase.

Its a logic flow diagram and to get the text in a logic box big enough to 
read, it occupies a minimum of 6 sheets of landscape 11x17.  Fairly 
complex signal flow.  The .hal file that generates it is around 640 
lines.  Taping it together and sticking it a about a third of a sheet of 
thin plywood to make it studyable is about a 1.5 hour job by the time 
the borders are cut away, and its adjusted so all the lines meet when 
the tape is applied takes 2 cups of coffee and several trips to a well 
worn diamond plate to keep the knife sharp.  The plate was 800 grit 25 
years ago, probably around 8000 grit equ now.

> On Sunday 10 July 2016 05:09:34 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 09 July 2016 21:51:52 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 09, 2016 07:14:24 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > I believe it is. Checking, yes. If that is the correct size, and
> > > > its truly borderless when selected as "tabloid(borderless)", if
> > > > the paper guidance can be improved, that would be ideal as when
> > > > I trimmed it up and put it on a big sheet of light plywood this
> > > > morning, I was trimming about 1/2" from all 4 edges on average. 
> > > > And it was set for "A3(borderless)" at the time.  What size in
> > > > our antiquated inch system is A3?
> > >
> > > A3 is what I consider a metric size (well, it is an ISO
> > > standard)--in inches it is 11.7 x 16.5 in.
> >
> > Humm, wider but shorter.
> >
> > > If the only choices on that printer feed door are in the A series
> > > of sizes, that may explain why the feed doesn't work to align the
> > > paper properly.
> >
> > I was just trying to set the guides, such as they are, to fit the
> > width of the paper, but had to tape then down to hold them as it
> > takes only a gram or maybe two to move them, so they slide equal
> > amounts in both directions the instant a sheet of paper touches
> > them.  Useless design other than the auto center the cross coupling
> > enforces if you tape it down so it cannot move.
> >
> > > I'd start by trimming one sheet of 11x17 paper to 11x16.5 and see
> > > if that feeds better.
> > >
> > > I don't know how easy it is to buy A series paper in the US.
> >
> > It feeds the short edge in first, unlike the paper trays, both of
> > which can be set for several different sizes, but they both feed
> > long edge first. So once its been grabbed, there is still about
> > 14.25 inches of paper hanging out in empty space with zero guidance
> > because the curl of the paper as it passes over the top edge of this
> > "door", lifts the paper a good 1/4" above and totally free of the
> > guides. Most worthless design I have ever seen.  Paper centering and
> > feed alignment are completely at the mercy of the human trying to
> > insert the paper centered and square. And I do not believe that if a
> > sheet of Lexan was added to extend the paper support for at least
> > 8", and it was screwed to the plastic of the door, the stoppers
> > incorporated into the plastic hinges would actually survive a sheet
> > of tagboard laying on it, combined with the weight of the Lexan, too
> > heavy.  A sheet of 28 lb copy paper is ok, but not a hand laying on
> > it.
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page