Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 05:34:10AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> iceweasel in jessie really is firefox?

You should probably verify what browser you're actually using.  Either
find the "Help" or "About Something" option in the settings menu, or
try going to "about:" in the URL bar.

> it's strange that firefox for XP is ok with the site

There are many strange aspects of this problem.  I don't yet understand
what's going on.

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

Thank Greg Wooledge!

I have created a new user, and the problem remain
it mean the default setting does not work for the web site

iceweasel in jessie really is firefox?
it's strange that firefox for XP is ok with the site

Thank Brian!

On 6/8/17, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 04:05:33AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
>> On 6/8/17, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>> > Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)
>
>> iceweasel is debian's fork of firefox( which is popular)?
>> i want to use a popular browser
>> and i think iceweasel is a popular one.
>
> You've missed the point, though to be fair it wasn't spelled out very
> clearly.
>
> The "iceweasel" name is historic now.  The trademark issues with
> Mozilla have been resolved.  In jessie and stretch, iceweasel is a
> *transitional* package, existing only to bring in firefox-esr for
> people who had previously been using the browser under that name.
> Once you've got firefox-esr installed, you can remove the "iceweasel"
> transitional package.
>
> As for your original issue, I'm stumped.  Firefox-esr (and iceweasel
> before it) have Javascript enabled by default.  If your Javascript web
> site isn't loading in those browsers, and you're sure you've tried it with
> the default settings, then the reason is something much too subtle for me.
>
> (If you haven't tried it with the default settings yet, that would be
> the next thing I'd try.  Create a new browser profile, or create a
> whole new Debian user account if you want a *really* clean slate.)
>
>

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 04:05:33AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> On 6/8/17, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)

> iceweasel is debian's fork of firefox( which is popular)?
> i want to use a popular browser
> and i think iceweasel is a popular one.

You've missed the point, though to be fair it wasn't spelled out very
clearly.

The "iceweasel" name is historic now.  The trademark issues with
Mozilla have been resolved.  In jessie and stretch, iceweasel is a
*transitional* package, existing only to bring in firefox-esr for
people who had previously been using the browser under that name.
Once you've got firefox-esr installed, you can remove the "iceweasel"
transitional package.

As for your original issue, I'm stumped.  Firefox-esr (and iceweasel
before it) have Javascript enabled by default.  If your Javascript web
site isn't loading in those browsers, and you're sure you've tried it with
the default settings, then the reason is something much too subtle for me.

(If you haven't tried it with the default settings yet, that would be
the next thing I'd try.  Create a new browser profile, or create a
whole new Debian user account if you want a *really* clean slate.)

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Brian]

On Thu 08 Jun 2017 at 04:05:33 +0800, Long Wind wrote:

> On 6/8/17, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)
> >
> > Lisi
> 
> iceweasel is debian's fork of firefox( which is popular)?
> i want to use a popular browser
> and i think iceweasel is a popular one.

iceweasel is definitely not a fork of firefox.

Cue history of Debian's naming of a popular web browser.

-- 
Brian.

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

On 6/8/17, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

>
> Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)
>
> Lisi
>
>

iceweasel is debian's fork of firefox( which is popular)?
i want to use a popular browser
and i think iceweasel is a popular one.

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 07 June 2017 01:51:30 Long Wind wrote:
> i can visit the web site with firefox 4 xp and android browser. the problem
> is with iceweasel
>
> thanks anyway!
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2017, SDA  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 05:30:05AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > > Thank Thomas!
> > > I disable javascript, but it still display nothing.
> > >
> > > the web site is in Chinese, use Unicode
> > >
> > > my energy is limited,I give up
> > > Thank all those who reply!
> >
> > I posted a link to what the page looks like as a webm movie. Not see it?

Why are you using Iceweasel?  (You probably said, but I can't find it.)

Lisi

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Paul Scott]

On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 10:18:48AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> really??
> 
> i just install chromium
> it has same problem as iceweasel

Works fine here on Firefox on sid (Debian is going back to Firefox),
Has button to change to English as someone else mentioned.

Paul


> 
> 
> On 6/7/17, Charlie S  wrote:
> >
> > After contemplation, my reply is:
> >
> >
> > It displays with Chromium and offers to translate it. Epiphany displays
> > it as well.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> 
> 

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

Epiphany-browser can't display it too
but Epiphany-game seem to be sth. I can enjoy
thank you very much!

On 6/7/17, Charlie S  wrote:
>
>
>   After contemplation, my reply is:
>
>
> It displays with Chromium and offers to translate it. Epiphany displays
> it as well.
>
> Charlie
>
>

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

really??

i just install chromium
it has same problem as iceweasel


On 6/7/17, Charlie S  wrote:
>
>   After contemplation, my reply is:
>
>
> It displays with Chromium and offers to translate it. Epiphany displays
> it as well.
>
> Charlie
>

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

i can visit the web site with firefox 4 xp and android browser. the problem
is with iceweasel

thanks anyway!

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017, SDA  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 05:30:05AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > Thank Thomas!
> > I disable javascript, but it still display nothing.
> >
> > the web site is in Chinese, use Unicode
> >
> > my energy is limited,I give up
> > Thank all those who reply!
>
> I posted a link to what the page looks like as a webm movie. Not see it?
>
>

Re: (abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[SDA]

On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 05:30:05AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> Thank Thomas!
> I disable javascript, but it still display nothing.
> 
> the web site is in Chinese, use Unicode
> 
> my energy is limited,I give up
> Thank all those who reply!

I posted a link to what the page looks like as a webm movie. Not see it? 

(abort)Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

Thank Thomas!
I disable javascript, but it still display nothing.

the web site is in Chinese, use Unicode

my energy is limited,I give up
Thank all those who reply!

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[SDA]

On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 09:31:26AM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
>i am not at home and can't use debian pc
>my problem is like Richard's description
>it loads sth., but display nothing
>thanks!

Here is a screen recording of what that abomination of a web page looks 
like.  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B84pZZOsDAK5UVNUTXcwZFRUOWs/view?usp=sharing

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Ken Heard]

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On 06/06/17 08:44 AM, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Just as a data point, it seems to work for me in Wheezy / Iceweasel
> / Firefox ESR--I see lots of content, but all in a foreign language
> using--what's the right word?--pictographs?--those "picture
> characters" used in several far east languages (e.g., Chinese).

I think the word you want is one of logogram, logograph or
grammalogue, meaning in all three cases a word represented by a single
sign.

Ken


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Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Dan Purgert]

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I visited the site with lynx and got error 521 which I've never 
> encountered before. error 500's indicate access is forbidden generally 
> if memory serves.

500 errors are the server responding that it cannot fulfill your
request.  Wikipedia[1] shows 521 specifically as a custom (i.e. "specific
service only" vs. global) code used by Cloudflare to indicate the target
server is down.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Jude DaShiell]

I visited the site with lynx and got error 521 which I've never 
encountered before. error 500's indicate access is forbidden generally 
if memory serves.


On Tue, 6 Jun 2017, Ben Finney wrote:


Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:37:22
From: Ben Finney 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: why can't I visit this web site
Resent-Date: Tue,  6 Jun 2017 00:37:47 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

Long Wind  writes:


this is really unbelievable
I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel


What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection
times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of
the monitor into your face?


can you help me and test the site?


You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can
know whether they're experiencing the same.




--

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/06/2017 07:54 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[snip]


Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.


In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
"forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox

So, uh, good luck.



There is SeaMonkey 
I'm running their default Linux package on both Jessie and Stretch with 
Mate DE with no problems.


I abandoned Firefox and Thunderbird before abandoning WinXP ;/

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[tomas]

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On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:54:49AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 02:32:21PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > > iceweasel does not support javascript?
> > 
> > It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.
> 
> You may want to try the NoScript extension.  It disables all Javascript
> by default, and allows you to turn it on for specific domains.
> 
> https://noscript.net/
> 
> For some people, it may be too aggressive.  It depends on what web
> sites you intend to use.

I know that. I prefer something more aggressive: disabling Javascript
in about:config (and disabling quite a few other things, btw), and
using that as my default browsing profile.

Then I have a couple of other (separate) profiles for very specific
pages. Pages which don't work without javascript usually don't interest
me.

> > Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
> > to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.
> 
> In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
> "forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
> to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
> started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
> out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".
> 
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox
> 
> So, uh, good luck.

I know. I suppose that it's a question of perspective. I've had
discussions with Firefox people, and while they most probably
are well intentioned, their vision is very biased. For one example,
they reason that taking away the "disable javascript" switch
is based on telemetry: it causes problems for some users.

But that this keeps many beginners from experimenting and
learning, and at the same time re-inforces "web programmers"
in their use of horrific frameworks which rely on more and
more programs running client-side... that's something they
only view as a Good Thing (just think about how much Mozilla
has invested on a well-performing Javascript implementation.
Heck, the PDF viewer is written in Javascript these days:
an impressive technical feat, and many nifty tricks in
there, but... no, thanks!).

For me, it's a Bad Thing, because it makes the interface
between the service and my computer ever more obfuscated
(was: a document in an ugly, but somewhat specified language,
is: some obscure protocol which only the service provider[1]
controls, since (s)he develops server and client-side parts
in lockstep).

So thanks, but no thanks. Call me luddite if you want, but
I don't like the path things are taking. Things may have a
free license, but are becoming so obfuscated as to be effectively
non-free.

Cheers

[1] Or the service provider's framework provider (who these
   days is mostly Google or Facebook because distributed
   programming Is Hard and needs lots of resources).

- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 02:32:21PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> > iceweasel does not support javascript?
> 
> It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.

You may want to try the NoScript extension.  It disables all Javascript
by default, and allows you to turn it on for specific domains.

https://noscript.net/

For some people, it may be too aggressive.  It depends on what web
sites you intend to use.

> Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
> to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.

In the last decade or so, the overall Firefox policy seems to have become
"forget whatever we used to do, let's force people to write extensions
to provide those features".  And in the last year or two, as people
started using extensions to provide the features Firefox has stripped
out, the policy has become "let's block the use of extensions".

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-on-signing-in-firefox

So, uh, good luck.

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[rhkramer]

> On Tuesday 06 June 2017 01:37:22 Ben Finney wrote:
> > WA boxing glove on a spring pops out of
> > the monitor into your face?
> > 

Sounds like the next step in UI design, in fact, it might be a real "gooey" 
UI.  

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Joe]

On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 20:06:30 +0800
Long Wind  wrote:

> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie
> 

In about:config. Type that into the address bar, then in the Search
box, type javascript. The global disable is called javascript.enable.

More commonly, firefox/iceweasel users use NoScript or other selective
javascript enabler.

> iceweasel does not support javascript?

Every version that I've seen does. It has always been Firefox by
another name, but usually not the current version.
> 
> i think iceweasel makes poor choice
> XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site
> 

And many web developers don't bother to test Firefox versions, because
obviously, people only use Microsoft web browsers. Two hours ago, I
completely failed to download something from a site after logging in to
it, using the current Firefox on Win8. I then tried the same exercise
with an older Firefox on Linux, and it worked perfectly. Unusual, I
have to say, it's more often the other way around, but clearly the web
developer had done something wrong. The web protocol for downloading is
trivial and shouldn't even require javascript. But something clever had
been done about restricting the download to logged-in account holders,
and it wasn't behaving as expected. Sturgeon's Revelation applies to
websites, and in particular, to their developers.

-- 
Joe

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[tomas]

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On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 08:06:30PM +0800, Long Wind wrote:
> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie

They have taken it out: it's "always enabled" unless you dig into
about:config.

Firefox developers have decreed that their users are too stupid
to cope with an "on/off" switch for Javascript. Sad, but true.

> iceweasel does not support javascript?

It doesn't support *disabling* javascript. It's always on.

> i think iceweasel makes poor choice

I agree (although we are talking about slightly different things :)

> XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site

I have no idea what incompatible code "this site" uses. Or what
else is going on (perhaps some other site, which that page needs
to work, is being blocked in one but not in the other installation).

I would say the problem lies in bad javascript code in that site,
although I don't feel like debugging some random javascript code
off the 'net. It's too depressing.

Regards
- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Long Wind wrote:
> i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie
> iceweasel does not support javascript?

It did for me by default.  I rather had to riddle how to disable it.

I go to pseudo URL
  about:config
to see a long list of adjustable properties.
When i type into the "Search" field:
  java
the second item in the now reduced list becomes
  javacript.enabled
I doubleclick to toggle between values "false" and "true".

After having gone back to the page which needs Javascript, i reload that
page to see its content ... and all the awful Javascript frippery.
(I looked up "Firlefanz" in dict.cc, "frippery" was funniest.)

As soon as possible i disable Javascript again.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

i can't find options related to javascript in iceweasel/jessie

iceweasel does not support javascript?

i think iceweasel makes poor choice
XP/firefox and android' browser can visit this site

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[tomas]

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On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 07:38:05PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/05/2017 07:12 PM, Long Wind wrote:
> >this is really unbelievable
> >I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

> Using Stretch and SeaMonkey 2.46 with JavaScript and cookies *DISABLED*
> It loads something but _displays_ nothing.
> Displaying web page by using CNTRL-U reveals a VERY long single line
> containing JavaScript.

Same here. Host resolves alright, page loads, but is Javascript-only.

> I avoid unknown sites that display nothing unless JavaScript enabled.
> YMMV

Heh. So we're at least *two* :-)

I'd go further: I consider a page which refuses to show anything when
Javascript is disabled as highly suspicious -- borderline malware.

(Yeah, I know, I know: The Internet is evolving, blah, blah. Not in
a good direction, IMO).

As Richard says: YMMV.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Ben Finney]

Long Wind  writes:

> i am not at home and can't use debian pc

That's okay. We can wait until you are able to reply properly.

-- 
 \   “Are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “Umm, I think so, Don |
  `\  Cerebro, but, umm, why would Sophia Loren do a musical?” |
_o__)   —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Long Wind]

i am not at home and can't use debian pc

my problem is like Richard's description
it loads sth., but display nothing

thanks!

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/05/2017 07:12 PM, Long Wind wrote:

this is really unbelievable
I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

http://www.cs.ecitic.com/

I can visit it with XP/firefox

can you help me and test the site?




Using Stretch and SeaMonkey 2.46 with JavaScript and cookies *DISABLED*
It loads something but _displays_ nothing.
Displaying web page by using CNTRL-U reveals a VERY long single line 
containing JavaScript.


I avoid unknown sites that display nothing unless JavaScript enabled.
YMMV

Re: why can't I visit this web site

[Ben Finney]

Long Wind  writes:

> this is really unbelievable
> I can't visit this site with jessie/iceweasel

What happens? A server error? A 404 Not Found error? The connection
times out? The browser crashes? A boxing glove on a spring pops out of
the monitor into your face?

> can you help me and test the site?

You'll need to say what actually happens for you, otherwise no-one can
know whether they're experiencing the same.

-- 
 \ “Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands |
  `\ it.” —Albert Einstein |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney