Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 26/06/2020 02:50, Default User wrote:

"Beware the censor, for in his heart, he deems himself your master."


main!

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[Will Mengarini]

* davidson  [20-06/25=Th 03:31 +]:
>> Oh god.  Look, this is about my signature, isn't it?
>>
>> [...] Look, for the last time, it's not *my* opinion.
>> It is (allegedly) Horatio Nelson's. [...]
>>
>> I know, I know.  It is so sad.  But there is no alternative if truly
>> open and accepting collaboration is to flourish in Freedomland.
>>
>> [...] And you will have to send me some links to videos of
>> this Community band, because I have never ever heard of them
>> but I'm really into all kinds of zombie apocalypse stuff.

That is now officially my favorite mailing list post of 2020.

I know /intellectually/ that 2020 isn't over yet,
but /emotionally/ I find that difficult to accept.

* Pierre-Elliott Bécue  [20-06/25=Th 12:29 +0200]:
> [...] You, being horrified about the authoritarism a Code
> of Conduct and potential moderation seems to represent,
> should be delighted that no scapegoat was designated.
>
> Yet, although some may try and play naive, I'm pretty sure
> the concerned people know who they are and what my email
> is referring about, and that seems quite enough to me.

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID

-- 
 Will Mengarini  
Bid on .signature now!  Find great deals & huge selection.  www.eBay.com
This gelatinous cube corpse tastes terrible!
sh -c 'echo -n MENGARINI|sum -s|colrm 4'

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 03:40:26PM +, davidson wrote:

And OP specified no debian listserv(s).


Sure they did, in the To: field.

--
  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[davidson]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Le jeudi 25 juin 2020 à 09:42:44+, davidson a écrit :

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 deloptes wrote:

davidson wrote:


On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.


Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.


Sorry but I do not understand - can you explain the context?


/me reluctantly drops out of satirical mode

I cannot.


What is the reason, which thread?

^ ^^


Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.


The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing.


And OP specified no thread(s).

And OP specified no debian listserv(s).

Were those omissions also intentional?


You, being horrified about the authoritarism a Code of Conduct and
potential moderation seems to represent, should be delighted that no
scapegoat was designated.


I concede you make a good point here. And I would like to congratulate
you for making it, without my sincerity appearing to be sarcasm.

And then I would tell you, "I am indeed relieved that Community Team
has not tossed anyone into the maw of the volcano."


Yet, although some may try and play naive, I'm pretty sure the
concerned people know who they are and what my email is referring
about, and that seems quite enough to me.


Broadcast means, allegedly unicast ends. This intrigues me.


Bests,


We sit across a picnic table from one another, in cool shade near a
brook by a meadow, which is uncharacteristically (but happily) empty
of mosquitoes. Refreshment is on the table. We are content. We are in
a jolly mood. Chuckling at one another. You crack a good joke and make
me spill my beer. A gentle breeze passes.

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Default User]

"Beware the censor, for in his heart, he deems himself your master. "

Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 6:13 AM  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.
>
> nyah, nyah.
>
> > The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
> > intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing.
>
> Well done.
>
> And to all of you yelling CENSORSHIP!1!!
>
> It's not about opinions. It's about not behaving like a jerk.
>
> Expressing opinions is OK (although some attempt to stay on-topic is
> generally appreciated, but isn't enforced. I, for one, welcome that).
>
> But insulting people isn't OK. And I'm glad people stand up to that.
>

I feel it's also about not tolerating intolerance.  If folks want to be
bigots, then they can go start their own fork without the support or
blessing of us.  Similar to how Gab forked Mastodon (and then Gab broke
itself).

Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[tomas]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

[...]

> > Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.

nyah, nyah.

> The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
> intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing.

Well done.

And to all of you yelling CENSORSHIP!1!!

It's not about opinions. It's about not behaving like a jerk.

Expressing opinions is OK (although some attempt to stay on-topic is
generally appreciated, but isn't enforced. I, for one, welcome that).

But insulting people isn't OK. And I'm glad people stand up to that.

Cheers
-- t


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Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Le jeudi 25 juin 2020 à 09:42:44+, davidson a écrit :
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 deloptes wrote:
> > davidson wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> > > > Dear users,
> > > > 
> > > > In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
> > > > Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
> > > > Project in the same time.
> > > 
> > > Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.
> > 
> > Sorry but I do not understand - can you explain the context?
> 
> /me reluctantly drops out of satirical mode
> 
> I cannot.
> 
> > What is the reason, which thread?
> 
> Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.

The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing. You, being horrified
about the authoritarism a Code of Conduct and potential moderation seems
to represent, should be delighted that no scapegoat was designated.

Yet, although some may try and play naive, I'm pretty sure the concerned
people know who they are and what my email is referring about, and
that seems quite enough to me.

Bests,

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[davidson]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 elvis wrote:


On 25/6/20 1:31 pm, davidson wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.


Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.


The Community Team would like to remind you that this Code of
Conduct is to be followed when communicating on any Debian
Discussion Medium, even by non Debian Members.

Following the CoC guidelines isn't hard, it's essentially about not
being unrespectful to other people,


Oh god. Look, this is about my signature, isn't it?

It's a joke, man. A reductio ad absurdum, if you will.


and it helps avoiding situations where any form of official
moderation would be needed.


Woah, slow down. If you really think it's a problem, I can change the
sig. All you gotta do is ask.


Anybody of course may have an opinion, but voicing it in
disrespectful ways can't be accepted, as it could drive other
members of the Community away.


Look, for the last time, it's not *my* opinion. It is (allegedly)
Horatio Nelson's. And the whole point is that it is a very, very DUMB
opinion. Held by nobody but chauvinist troglodytes that need to be
excluded from polite society for the good of all.


??? I guess you can hold that opinion


For the record, I do not. That was satire.

The extent which putative communities and the sanction of banishment
seem to co-occur alarms me. In my small corner of the world, I sense
that "community" the term, and banishment the sanction, are
increasingly overapplied.

It almost seems as if the less felicitous it is, to call the group in
question a community, the more frequent are the calls for banishment.


if you have never studied or read about the period to put it in
context.


Indeed I have not. I did once attempt David Webber's Honor Harrington
series of science fiction novels (space opera subgenre), whose
protagonist is reportedly based on Nelson. But I did not know this at
the time, and I did not get very far.

I would be grateful for any book recommendation that you think might
improve a patient reader's understanding of the historical context.


To a student of the period it holds a subtle humour and is just a
product of its times.


Thank you for this.

To me, oblivious to its original context, it sums up an authoritarian
syllogism, saying the "quiet part out loud":

  1. Firstly, you must always implicitly obey orders, without
 attempting to form any opinion of your own respecting their
 propriety.

[South Park's Cartman voice:] Obey mah authoritah!

A would-be authority that begins and ends here will fail. Such a state
of affairs must first be constructed. ("Firstly" is a lie. "Lastly"
would be the truth.)

  2. Secondly, you must consider every man your enemy who speaks ill
 of your king;

$king is just a variable, a placeholder for some sacred postulate, any
questioning of which is immediately met with overwhelming force.

  3. and thirdly, you must hate a Frenchman, as you do the devil.

$Frenchman is the placeholder for a handy quotidien scapegoat, used to
misdirect the mob's inherent resentment of authority.

$devil of course stands for the eternal (ie, imaginary/ideal)
scapegoat, useful to have around when no real $Frenchman will
plausibly serve.

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[davidson]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 deloptes wrote:

davidson wrote:


On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.


Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.


Sorry but I do not understand - can you explain the context?


/me reluctantly drops out of satirical mode

I cannot.


What is the reason, which thread?


Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[elvis]

On 25/6/20 1:31 pm, davidson wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.


Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.


The Community Team would like to remind you that this Code of
Conduct is to be followed when communicating on any Debian
Discussion Medium, even by non Debian Members.

Following the CoC guidelines isn't hard, it's essentially about not
being unrespectful to other people,


Oh god. Look, this is about my signature, isn't it?

It's a joke, man. A reductio ad absurdum, if you will.


and it helps avoiding situations where any form of official
moderation would be needed.


Woah, slow down. If you really think it's a problem, I can change the
sig. All you gotta do is ask.


Anybody of course may have an opinion, but voicing it in
disrespectful ways can't be accepted, as it could drive other
members of the Community away.


Look, for the last time, it's not *my* opinion. It is (allegedly)
Horatio Nelson's. And the whole point is that it is a very, very DUMB
opinion. Held by nobody but chauvinist troglodytes that need to be
excluded from polite society for the good of all.



??? I guess you can hold that opinion if you have never studied or read 
about the period to put it in context. To a student of the period it 
holds a subtle humour and is just a product of its times.






I know, I know. It is so sad. But there is no alternative if truly
open and accepting collaboration is to flourish in Freedomland.

In fact, the main point is that it is SO worthy of scorn that it needs
no more commentary than its own presentation, verbatim.


With best regards,


I hope that I have made myself perfectly clear so that you can stop
worrying and have a good week.

Next time (if there is one) maybe you could be a little more explicit
though?

And you will have to send me some links to videos of this Community
band, because I have never ever heard of them but I'm really into all
kinds of zombie apocalypse stuff.


[0] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct



--
'DISMISS the old horse in good time, lest he fail in the lists and the spectators 
laugh." Horace

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[deloptes]

davidson wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> Dear users,
>>
>> In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
>> Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
>> Project in the same time.
> 
> Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.

Sorry but I do not understand - can you explain the context?

What is the reason, which thread?

Re: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[davidson]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.


Oh, crap. I think I know what this is about. Sorry everybody.


The Community Team would like to remind you that this Code of
Conduct is to be followed when communicating on any Debian
Discussion Medium, even by non Debian Members.

Following the CoC guidelines isn't hard, it's essentially about not
being unrespectful to other people,


Oh god. Look, this is about my signature, isn't it?

It's a joke, man. A reductio ad absurdum, if you will.


and it helps avoiding situations where any form of official
moderation would be needed.


Woah, slow down. If you really think it's a problem, I can change the
sig. All you gotta do is ask.


Anybody of course may have an opinion, but voicing it in
disrespectful ways can't be accepted, as it could drive other
members of the Community away.


Look, for the last time, it's not *my* opinion. It is (allegedly)
Horatio Nelson's. And the whole point is that it is a very, very DUMB
opinion. Held by nobody but chauvinist troglodytes that need to be
excluded from polite society for the good of all.

I know, I know. It is so sad. But there is no alternative if truly
open and accepting collaboration is to flourish in Freedomland.

In fact, the main point is that it is SO worthy of scorn that it needs
no more commentary than its own presentation, verbatim.


With best regards,


I hope that I have made myself perfectly clear so that you can stop
worrying and have a good week.

Next time (if there is one) maybe you could be a little more explicit
though?

And you will have to send me some links to videos of this Community
band, because I have never ever heard of them but I'm really into all
kinds of zombie apocalypse stuff.


[0] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct


--
Firstly, you must always implicitly obey orders, without attempting to
form any opinion of your own respecting their propriety. Secondly, you
must consider every man your enemy who speaks ill of your king; and
thirdly, you must hate a Frenchman, as you do the devil. --H. Nelson

Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Dear users,

In the past days we saw multiple emails discussing about non
Debian-related things and infringing the Code of Conduct[0] of the
Project in the same time.

The Community Team would like to remind you that this Code of Conduct
is to be followed when communicating on any Debian Discussion Medium,
even by non Debian Members.

Following the CoC guidelines isn't hard, it's essentially about not
being unrespectful to other people, and it helps avoiding situations
where any form of official moderation would be needed.

Anybody of course may have an opinion, but voicing it in disrespectful
ways can't be accepted, as it could drive other members of the Community
away.

With best regards,

[0] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue (for the Community Team)
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.


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