Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 08:21:14PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Kernel modules that are needed for the boot process itself reside in the initrd, and he copies that. For the *early* boot process. I.e. mounting the root filesystem and not much else. Indeed. So, considering worst case scenario one will have mounted root filesystem and a console access to the host. That's much better than trying to do anything with the system from initrd's busybox IMO. Kernel modules that live in /lib/modules are loaded after root filesystem is mounted and init is started. As long as kernel's ABI isn't changed they should load successfully. But this method provides no backup if the update causes a regression in one of these modules which may break a major fonction of the system. Given that the local disks and their filesystems are accessible, that leaves us with: 1) Network. Not having one in working condition is a major setback these days. Network breakage can be avoided by appending needed modules to the /etc/initramfs-tools/modules, assuming one uses MODULES=dep setting in the /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf. And if one uses MODULES=most it's already done anyway (and MODULES=most is the default). 2) Video, sound, USB, etc. Painful, but bearable. There's nothing in those modules that can not be fixed by using snapshot.debian.org while having mounted root filesystem and a network. Still I agree that copying kernel and initrd does not substitute the backup. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140808061254.GA18207@x101h
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Reco a écrit : Hi. On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 10:06:46AM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Marc Auslander a écrit : I just manually copy the four files in /boot associated with the working kernel. I append -knowngood to get new names. update grup happily makes boot entries for them. What about the kernel directory in /lib/modules which contains the major part of the kernel ? Kernel modules that are needed for the boot process itself reside in the initrd, and he copies that. For the *early* boot process. I.e. mounting the root filesystem and not much else. Kernel modules that live in /lib/modules are loaded after root filesystem is mounted and init is started. As long as kernel's ABI isn't changed they should load successfully. But this method provides no backup if the update causes a regression in one of these modules which may break a major fonction of the system. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e3c39a.3050...@plouf.fr.eu.org
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Marc Auslander a écrit : Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes: On Sb, 02 aug 14, 12:11:43, Kenneth Jacker wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. I just manually copy the four files in /boot associated with the working kernel. I append -knowngood to get new names. update grup happily makes boot entries for them. What about the kernel directory in /lib/modules which contains the major part of the kernel ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e1e216.1070...@plouf.fr.eu.org
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Hi. On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 10:06:46AM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Marc Auslander a écrit : Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes: On Sb, 02 aug 14, 12:11:43, Kenneth Jacker wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. I just manually copy the four files in /boot associated with the working kernel. I append -knowngood to get new names. update grup happily makes boot entries for them. What about the kernel directory in /lib/modules which contains the major part of the kernel ? Kernel modules that are needed for the boot process itself reside in the initrd, and he copies that. Kernel modules that live in /lib/modules are loaded after root filesystem is mounted and init is started. As long as kernel's ABI isn't changed they should load successfully. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140806083707.GA26385@x101h
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
ph Don't confuse installing a new kernel (3.2 and 3.12 are different ph kernels, different packages names) and upgrading an installed ph kernel with a new release (same version, same package name, ph different package release versions). Upgrading an installed kernel ph package replaces it, as with any other package. Installing a new ph kernel does not. I think the above comments by Pascal most succinctly clarifies my confusion ... pointing out the difference between installing and upgrading. Next time I'll pay more attention to what is being presented by the package manager! Still a little uneasy about having no backup kernel. But, I do have a CD with Recovery Is Possible/RIP [1] on it that I can use if something terrible happens. ;-) Though I am only replying to Pascal's letter, I definitely want to thank not just Pascal, but *all* who contributed to this thread. Thanks, -Kenneth [1] http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87fvh9e2vl@be.cs.appstate.edu
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sb, 02 aug 14, 12:11:43, Kenneth Jacker wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. Let's distinguish between package names and versions. Currently the *name* of the kernel package in stable is linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 and there are several versions available for it. According to tracker.debian.org the regular archive has *version* 3.2.57.3, while the security archive has 3.2.60-1+deb7u3. When upgrading the package with the *name* linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 from *version* 3.2.57.3 to 3.2.60-1+deb7u3 no files of the old version are preserved. This is normal and expected, otherwise package upgrades would very soon fill up your system[1]. If for some reason Debian were to release a linux image package with the *name* linux-image-3.2.0-5-amd64, the files of linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 would be preserved unless you deliberately configure your system not to or manually remove it yourself. As a side note, the point of having something-like-a-version in the package name is to allow different generations (avoiding the word versions on purpose) of a software to be installed in paralel when this is useful. Given the above, if you feel like you should be having a backup kernel image in case a *version* upgrade breaks something (yes, this is possible) you should probably install some other kernel image package (e.g. a -686 one if your system can boot it, or a package from backports, or some -rt image, etc.) and make sure you don't upgrade both at the same time. [1] packages tend to (slowly) grow in size over time, but this is not what I'm talking about here. Hope this explains/helps, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com writes:
On Sb, 02 aug 14, 12:11:43, Kenneth Jacker wrote:
[ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ]
I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears
to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot.
I just manually copy the four files in /boot associated with the
working kernel. I append -knowngood to get new names. update grup
happily makes boot entries for them.
My copy script is:
#!/bin/bash
for x in *knowngood
do
( set -x; cp -p $x ${x}-old )
done
for x in *amd64
do
( set -x; cp -p $x ${x}-knowngood )
done
You'll have to replace *amd64 by whatever the right search is for your
kernel.
Of course, I only run this after successful reboot and snif test with
the new kernel.
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Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. As stated by others; certainly old kernel is not removed after upgrade, you might be doing something tricky.. On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Kenneth Jacker k...@be.cs.appstate.edu wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. Just in case (unlikely I know) a new kernel has problems, I'd like to retain, say, the last three prior images in /boot. Other *nix systems required me to manually delete unneeded images ... Looking around, I thought I might find a GRUB option to do this. No luck. Thanks for your ideas/help! -- Prof Kenneth H Jacker (ret) k...@cs.appstate.edu Computer Science Dept www.cs.appstate.edu/~khj Appalachian State Univ Boone, NC 28608 USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87a97meurk@be.cs.appstate.edu
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sunday 03 August 2014 01:38:56 Chris Bannister wrote: Weird. So on these systems there are old packages which haven't been removed by the package manager? And on my Debian Wheezy system. I have four kernels, including three from Backports: 3.2, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14. I have removed 3.10 and 3.11. I originally installed 3.10 from Backports. Upgrading never seems to remove a kernel and never has. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201408031058.10077.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 10:58:10AM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Sunday 03 August 2014 01:38:56 Chris Bannister wrote: Weird. So on these systems there are old packages which haven't been removed by the package manager? And on my Debian Wheezy system. I have four kernels, including three from Backports: 3.2, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14. I have removed 3.10 and 3.11. I originally installed 3.10 from Backports. Upgrading never seems to remove a kernel and never has. They are individual separate packages, not upgrades of the same one. If you have the kernel meta package installed, then if it gets upgraded it will pull in the latest kernel. e.g: (on Jessie) apt-cache show linux-image-amd64 [..] Depends: linux-image-3.14-1-amd64 [..] I forgot about this meta package when I responded to the OP. Maybe he hasn't got it installed? -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140803161351.GA30445@tal
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Le 03/08/2014 11:58, Lisi Reisz a écrit : And on my Debian Wheezy system. I have four kernels, including three from Backports: 3.2, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14. I have removed 3.10 and 3.11. I originally installed 3.10 from Backports. Upgrading never seems to remove a kernel and never has. Don't confuse installing a new kernel (3.2 and 3.12 are different kernels, different packages names) and upgrading an installed kernel with a new release (same version, same package name, different package release versions). Upgrading an installed kernel package replaces it, as with any other package. Installing a new kernel does not. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53de5ef9.2000...@plouf.fr.eu.org
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sunday 03 August 2014 17:10:33 Pascal Hambourg wrote: Le 03/08/2014 11:58, Lisi Reisz a écrit : And on my Debian Wheezy system. I have four kernels, including three from Backports: 3.2, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14. I have removed 3.10 and 3.11. I originally installed 3.10 from Backports. Upgrading never seems to remove a kernel and never has. Don't confuse installing a new kernel (3.2 and 3.12 are different kernels, different packages names) and upgrading an installed kernel with a new release (same version, same package name, different package release versions). Upgrading an installed kernel package replaces it, as with any other package. Installing a new kernel does not. I just run aptitude update aptitude full-upgrade and it upgrades the kernel. I accept your difference - but it may not apply in the same way to the other distros which were mentioned. And from my point of view, I just upgrade. I have the impression, however, that when other packages are upgraded (moved on to a higher version) the previous package *is* removed. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201408031932.09895.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 19:32:09 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Lisi, I have the impression, however, that when other packages are upgraded (moved on to a higher version) the previous package *is* removed. For the most part, that's true. With kernels though, removing a previous one is considered unwise and/or unsafe. Mostly because if the new kernel fails for some reason, and you have no previous kernel available to you, your system is unusable. Admittedly, an upgrade of any package can render that package somehow 'broken' on any given system, but a borked kernel is a *major* problem. Especially if it's on the only machine you have and the only kernel available to that system. Hence, for kernel upgrades, the previous one is (or should be) left in place. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent But they didn't tell him the first two didn't count Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Le 03/08/2014 20:32, Lisi Reisz a écrit : On Sunday 03 August 2014 17:10:33 Pascal Hambourg wrote: Don't confuse installing a new kernel (3.2 and 3.12 are different kernels, different packages names) and upgrading an installed kernel with a new release (same version, same package name, different package release versions). Upgrading an installed kernel package replaces it, as with any other package. Installing a new kernel does not. I just run aptitude update aptitude full-upgrade and it upgrades the kernel. That's because aptitude full-upgrade (or apt-get dist-upgrade) may install new packages as the result of dependency changes. E.g a new kernel which the updated version of linux-latest (meta-package) depends on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53de8404.4070...@plouf.fr.eu.org
Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
[ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. Just in case (unlikely I know) a new kernel has problems, I'd like to retain, say, the last three prior images in /boot. Other *nix systems required me to manually delete unneeded images ... Looking around, I thought I might find a GRUB option to do this. No luck. Thanks for your ideas/help! -- Prof Kenneth H Jacker (ret) k...@cs.appstate.edu Computer Science Dept www.cs.appstate.edu/~khj Appalachian State Univ Boone, NC 28608 USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87a97meurk@be.cs.appstate.edu
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 02 Aug 2014 12:11:43 -0400 Kenneth Jacker
k...@be.cs.appstate.edu napísal:
[ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ]
I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears
to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image
in /boot.
Just in case (unlikely I know) a new kernel has problems, I'd like
to retain, say, the last three prior images in /boot. Other *nix
systems required me to manually delete unneeded images ...
Looking around, I thought I might find a GRUB option to do this. No
luck.
Thanks for your ideas/help!
I have this:
// DO NOT EDIT! File autogenerated by /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
APT::NeverAutoRemove
{
^linux-image-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-image-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^linux-headers-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-headers-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^linux-image-extra-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-image-extra-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^linux-signed-image-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-signed-image-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^kfreebsd-image-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^kfreebsd-image-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^kfreebsd-headers-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^kfreebsd-headers-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^gnumach-image-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^gnumach-image-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^.*-modules-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^.*-modules-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^.*-kernel-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^.*-kernel-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^linux-backports-modules-.*-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-backports-modules-.*-3\.14-2-amd64$;
^linux-tools-3\.14-1-amd64$;
^linux-tools-3\.14-2-amd64$;
};
in the /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels and old kernels are
preserved after update and i need to manually removed it (them).
They stays (i am using aptitude) installed despite the auto flag.
regards
--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk
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Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 08/02/2014 12:11 PM, Kenneth Jacker wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. That doesn't happen for me. On my systems, the old kernel image stays around until I remove its matching linux-image-* package - which doesn't happen automatically. (I presently have slightly over a dozen kernels still in place, and probably bootable.) What kernel package(s) are you working with, and what method (tool and commands) are you using to upgrade them? - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJT3YMVAAoJEASpNY00KDJrwCAQAKEK36Ef3DiBvL0gbcTwBrBZ BvWXvXHd5OFeGsuqckRgSLnZ+vIe2x6aT1v4jThAkdJ5nddA1b9VsoBZG3+3vbFE zsTENzlNqwm6mtvzmIVlFltQ2XmzyJtgF0Naf0fBi0Cfb5JsO8OROcASJWZ7NZF8 VH2Fp4sH4XAdOAsAAO8+4rLVaNkP2KHv4UHYJ0+yPdnCNlNGDCfCTjw2ILAuKrq0 K5pcgyLIqtWjegMsKFpcAvJ1FEqLuYOwJXXJlTLBFXTYoqI1o3bNkbNO7N3TCul3 5pd1I6AI1ELJKfqbiLDnKkhSjMwN0HpF7nCgvaH2gsNCiIFOV+stYuWGY4jZz5MS dQ9RMP3WlnRZU08yYJGLu8+fwBNjhqPATnhWKuFo55FDast083XRlhFWOr2y0XcZ pPtB84wclSq/Fk030x0d+FWGi25qbcu8tJc/Spy4kZ4JRpLLDkxocAR7APOQ6tPF UX4d0xbfp0iWFZ8zrurVsHjF7ugI8LqTU+TsGFXWIcnHntoPlfNMWXfDWRpRxGUH WLVo4BvhsvVWmxvuXSpIqa68uRrSChRhen8m6xjY1PuFaK+u4pNCJKUS+wlPKik+ oDOasx6ucjxoruyLtvnftzO42VLJIAgi4xELHtfv8fqScWTgsedx1tGEV4/xRZ34 pxLN71gUIOvJcdsdnJgx =UM5a -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53dd8316.2070...@fastmail.fm
Re: Retaining Older Kernels After Image Update
On Sat, Aug 02, 2014 at 12:11:43PM -0400, Kenneth Jacker wrote: [ Wheezy; 3.2.0-4-amd64 ] I've noticed that when I upgrade a kernel image, the prior one appears to be removed. So, at any time there is only one kernel image in /boot. Updates are different to a new package install. On a new kernel install, the old kernel is not removed. You might be getting confused by a security *upgrade* and a new kernel install. Also be aware that stable does not install *new* Just in case (unlikely I know) a new kernel has problems, I'd like to retain, say, the last three prior images in /boot. Other *nix systems required me to manually delete unneeded images ... Weird. So on these systems there are old packages which haven't been removed by the package manager? Look at the kernel as just another package as far as dpkg/APT are concerned. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140803003856.GC29992@tal
