subject:"Sad..."

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 19:13 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 _Every_ generalisation is _always_ wrong :)

Ok, I agree :). My statements are in a context, so I guess most people
will understand, even if they should disagree.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389956291.3167.47.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 10:26 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
 In the long term  the support he gets from XP  could become worse than
 the support supplied by GNU/Linux. It does not seem wise to me.

There are some cracked XP and 98 se versions out there, that are as good
as FreeBSD and Linux for many usages, it's also possible to tune a legal
XP and 98 se to be good for many usages.

The advantage of Windows over Debian is hardware support and that more
people get payed for writing software for exotic usages, such as audio
and video editing.

_But_ IMO it's important to share knowledge. One of the things a
computer and networks are good for, is sharing knowledge and sharing
news from different points of view.

1. Open source is needed. IOW I won't use Microsoft and Apple.
2. I e.g. want to read the news from Israel and Palestine, of the USA
   and the Iran. Could be done with MS and Apple, but in some countries
   we need security ... did I wrote some? ... in all countries we need
   security when doing this, so FLOSS is the better way to go, since
   there are likely less backdoors for the bad guys, if any.

Etc. pp.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389957198.3167.60.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 10:26 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
  In the long term  the support he gets from XP  could become worse than
  the support supplied by GNU/Linux. It does not seem wise to me.
 
 There are some cracked XP and 98 se versions out there, that are as good
 as FreeBSD and Linux for many usages, it's also possible to tune a legal
 XP and 98 se to be good for many usages.
 
 The advantage of Windows over Debian is hardware support and that more
   ^^^ Linux, covert advertising and
even for this it's a typo, since my preferred distro is another one.

 people get payed for writing software for exotic usages, such as audio
 and video editing.
 
 _But_ IMO it's important to share knowledge. One of the things a
 computer and networks are good for, is sharing knowledge and sharing
 news from different points of view. [...]


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389957550.3167.62.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Gian Uberto Lauri

Ralf Mardorf writes:
  On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 10:26 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
   In the long term  the support he gets from XP  could become worse than
   the support supplied by GNU/Linux. It does not seem wise to me.
  
  There are some cracked XP and 98 se versions out there, that are as good

Cracked? Patched by the user or supplied by some unorthodox supplier?

  as FreeBSD and Linux for many usages, it's also possible to tune a legal
  XP and 98 se to be good for many usages.
  
  The advantage of Windows over Debian is hardware support and that more
  people get payed for writing software for exotic usages, such as audio
  and video editing.

Today that's indeed true. 

When an hardware maker builds a new  device he sends a specimen of the
device and  the driver in  Redmond to  get the Microsoft  blessing and
sell more.

Tomorrow could be a different tune.

If the device is worth the effort, Microsoft will include the support
in the system. I should ask to some of my friends who work(ed) there
if all the device that receive the designed for Windows X get an
automatic-embedded-in-the-OS support in Windows X+1.

  _But_ IMO it's important to share knowledge. One of the things a
  computer and networks are good for, is sharing knowledge and sharing
  news from different points of view.
  
  1. Open source is needed. IOW I won't use Microsoft and Apple.

I could use Apple HW for sure. Maybe even Mac OS X, after all it's a Unix.

What I  need more than Open  Source is Free Software.  You know, Apple
discontinues PowerPC units and GNU/Linux still supplies up to date (or
almost up to date - my attempt  to install the latest stable on a Lamp
failed since it left the system unusable).

  2. I e.g. want to read the news from Israel and Palestine, of the USA
 and the Iran. Could be done with MS and Apple, but in some countries
 we need security ... did I wrote some? ... in all countries we need
 security when doing this, so FLOSS is the better way to go, since
 there are likely less backdoors for the bad guys, if any.

I heard about some doubts about TrueCrypt...

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/21209.6811.3403.617...@mail.eng.it

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
   Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
   blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
   keyboard.
  
  Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
  and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
  but handcrafted by a craftsman.
 
 But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.

Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
first katana ;)?


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389960475.3167.84.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:57 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
 I heard about some doubts about TrueCrypt...

Encryption doesn't work, when there is already a backdoor before the
encryption takes place. For FLOSS operating systems it's hard to place
such a backdoor, for closed operating systems from US-American companies
there clearly are such backdoors.

A TOR browser won't help you, when the NSA already gets your data from
your keyboard buffer.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389961057.3167.89.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 13:07 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 
  But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
 
 Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
 knife in Germany anymore

My father, a gifted martial artist, once nearly cut one of his fingers,
when cutting a cake using a good pie knife. The children travelling
knife from the past are better than knifes for adults nowadays. Perhaps
they only want protect us against our foolishness. OTOH why don't
they simply teach us, how to distinguish the bad from the good tools
and how to use the tools? Not every good tool is as dangerous as a good
knife, most tools are harmless, but anyway much better than computer
replacements, or replacements build controlled by computers.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389962357.3167.98.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Nate Bargmann

* On 2014 17 Jan 05:15 -0600, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 The advantage of Windows over Debian is hardware support and that more
 people get payed for writing software for exotic usages, such as audio
 and video editing.

In amateur radio circles there is a constant warning against USB to
serial dongles using the Prolific chips due to driver issues and FTDI
chipsets are preferred.  A year ago I intended to use my laptop which
came with Windows 7 to log an amateur radio event.  The OS completely
forgot the FTDI device that was attached and could not find it.  I lost
nearly an hour of time tracking down a replacement driver and finally
getting it installed.  The same hardware has been very well supported in
Debian for several years at least.  I think the meme that Windows
automatically has better driver support is, these days, suspect at best
and an outright lie at worst.

The other issue Julian had was that he jumped into a Linux distribution
at about the worst time to be using KDE.  I suspect his experience would
be better today, but the dearth of amateur radio software compared to
the Windows platform still exists, especially pretty looking programs.

I also wonder if Julian, as many other hams I've talked to over the
years, get the idea from those of us who favor Linux that a Linux
distribution is a bug for bug replacement for Windows.  We know that is
not the case although many of the same things may be accomplished in a
Linux based environment as in Windows or OS/X.

I still see the glass as half full as there are opportunities to improve
the Linux environment.  Not everything has been done that can be done.
Also, for a general computing environment either a Linux or BSD based
system seems to be the remaining choices as Windows and OS/X seem to be
moving toward a media centric focus.  While our free systems can do that
as well, they will never receive the blessing of the big media companies
whole still hold their customers at a paranoid arm's length.

Perhaps it is the perspective of time or age, but while it is
unfortunate that some people find that a Linux system doesn't meet their
needs or expectations, it is helpful to remember that neither do the
popular proprietary systems meet the needs or expectations of all.
What I want to avoid is the monopoly position held by Windows during the
late '90s and early part of this century.  I just ask for the freedom to
choose.

- Nate

-- 

The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true.

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140117130245.gj15...@n0nb.us

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Denis Witt

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 18:58:11 +0100
Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote:

a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled
machine, but handcrafted by a craftsman.

But this isn't because a machine can't do the work of a good craftsman
(in some cases today, and in almost any in the future). It's because
it's hard to sell a knife for 250$ when one can buy a reasonably good
one for 20$. Of course, there are some people who can value the 250$
knife but there are more who can't, or didn't have the money. And the
people who can might not buy it when it was made by a machine.

So if your company buys a very expensive robot to produce knifes, what
quality will they produce?

What machines can do nowadays is quite impressive:
http://vimeo.com/3833961
(Kuka robot copies the Gutenberg Bible)

Or think about machines in mills, sorting out single grains of poor
quality while they are falling down like a waterfall into the
millstone granting a better flour quality than you can with dozens of
human workers doing the same.

The downside of robots, yet, is that it takes a lot of time to make
them learn to craft another series of knifes, even if they differs
only in details. But there are already companies selling (industrial
grade) robots you can program by showing them what they should do:
http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/

No to mention the power such robots can have, combined with the
accuracy shown in the vimeo video. The Kuka Titan can lift one metric
ton placing it somewhere in over 3m range with an accuracy of
millimeters:
http://www.kuka-robotics.com/germany/en/pressevents/productnews/NN_titan_+the_worlds_strongest_robot.htm

It's all a matter of costs, or better return of invest. Kuka robots for
example get their paintjobs by humans. We all know robots can handle
paintjobs very well, but Kuka has a very broad range of different
robots and doesn't produce hundreds of each every day. So it's too
expensive, yet, to (re)program the robot, but this is about to change.

Bye.

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 07:02 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
 I still see the glass as half full

:)



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389977923.3167.109.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 14:38 +0100, Denis Witt wrote:
 Or think about machines in mills, sorting out single grains of poor
 quality while they are falling down like a waterfall into the
 millstone granting a better flour quality than you can with dozens of
 human workers doing the same.

I mentioned that there are some tasks computers are good for ;), but
many things only can be done by humans.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389978053.3167.111.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
  On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
keyboard.
   
   Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
   and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
   but handcrafted by a craftsman.
  
  But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
 
 Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
 knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
 work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
 weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
 same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
 used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
 computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
 don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
 they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
 It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
 never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
 first katana ;)?

This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.

Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?

Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
   On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
 Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
 blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
 keyboard.

Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
but handcrafted by a craftsman.
   
   But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
  
  Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
  knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
  work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
  weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
  same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
  used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
  computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
  don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
  they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
  It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
  never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
  first katana ;)?
 
 This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.
 
 Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
 crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
 are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
 tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?
 
 Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.

Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
brains.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389991390.5878.25.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 21:43 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
  Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
  blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
  keyboard.
 
 Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred 
 years
 and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
 but handcrafted by a craftsman.

But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
   
   Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
   knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
   work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
   weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
   same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
   used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
   computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
   don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
   they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
   It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
   never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
   first katana ;)?
  
  This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.
  
  Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
  crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
  are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
  tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?
  
  Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.
 
 Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
 mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
 precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
 super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
 brains.

PS:

Do you ask a computer to compute who is the best person to be the
perfect boy/girl-friend? Is intuition less or more substantial?

If humans would be aware to program a CNC machine perfectly, they
perhaps could be better or at least equal to human work, but we are
unable to do it.

Humans feel the right point, a computer doesn't.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389992545.5878.29.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 22:02 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 21:43 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
   On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
   Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that 
   will
   blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse 
   /
   keyboard.
  
  Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred 
  years
  and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled 
  machine,
  but handcrafted by a craftsman.
 
 But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.

Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
first katana ;)?
   
   This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.
   
   Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
   crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
   are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
   tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?
   
   Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.
  
  Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
  mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
  precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
  super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
  brains.
 
 PS:
 
 Do you ask a computer to compute who is the best person to be the
 perfect boy/girl-friend? Is intuition less or more substantial?
 
 If humans would be aware to program a CNC machine perfectly, they
 perhaps could be better or at least equal to human work, but we are
 unable to do it.
 
 Humans feel the right point, a computer doesn't.

Sorry, for the PPS, but I worked with CNC machines.

CNC machines need to sense the surface as human need to do, but they
don't have that perfect senses as humans have got.

We aren't talking just about measurements, but about assessment, math
interpolation can't compare to human knowledge/feeling.

Is there any computer able to produce just a simple pop song that
reaches the top ten? A computer is able to produce a jazz, rock,
classical style song, but not able to touch human emotions.

So are you saying computers are better than humans?



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389993032.5878.35.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:43:10 -0800 Ralf 
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  
   
  Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
  mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more 
  precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a 
  super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our 
  brains. 

Our brains (and bodies) are the most shoddily constructed, corroded, 
inefficient, poorly maintained, infinite-monkeys sort of kajiggered engineering 
in the known universe. In my opinion, that we experience flaws and mistakes as 
better than exact reproduction and precise technique says more about how we 
are flawed and improvised than whether there is something intrinsically better 
about machine or manually wound coils.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/1257539946.845.1389993305871.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.241.245]

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 13:14 -0800, cletusjenkins wrote:
  On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:43:10 -0800 Ralf 
 Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  

   Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
   mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more 
   precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a 
   super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our 
   brains. 
 
 Our brains (and bodies) are the most shoddily constructed, corroded, 
 inefficient, poorly maintained, infinite-monkeys sort of kajiggered 
 engineering in the known universe. In my opinion, that we experience flaws 
 and mistakes as better than exact reproduction and precise technique says 
 more about how we are flawed and improvised than whether there is something 
 intrinsically better about machine or manually wound coils.

Living beings are able to self-repair, to eat and to produce the needed
energy for doing some work. You only need to interrupt electrical power
given by humans, to kill a machine.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389993709.5878.38.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 22:21 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 13:14 -0800, cletusjenkins wrote:
   On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:43:10 -0800 Ralf 
  Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  
 
Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more 
precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a 
super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our 
brains. 
  
  Our brains (and bodies) are the most shoddily constructed, corroded, 
  inefficient, poorly maintained, infinite-monkeys sort of kajiggered 
  engineering in the known universe. In my opinion, that we experience flaws 
  and mistakes as better than exact reproduction and precise technique says 
  more about how we are flawed and improvised than whether there is something 
  intrinsically better about machine or manually wound coils.
 
 Living beings are able to self-repair, to eat and to produce the needed
 energy for doing some work. You only need to interrupt electrical power
 given by humans, to kill a machine.

And don't forget we the most shoddily constructed ... in the known
universe were the once who build the machines!



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389993940.5878.40.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Jerry Stuckle


On 1/17/2014 4:14 PM, cletusjenkins wrote:

 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:43:10 -0800 Ralf 
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote 
  
   Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
   mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
   precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
   super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
   brains.

Our brains (and bodies) are the most shoddily constructed, corroded, inefficient, poorly 
maintained, infinite-monkeys sort of kajiggered engineering in the known universe. In my 
opinion, that we experience flaws and mistakes as better than exact 
reproduction and precise technique says more about how we are flawed and improvised than 
whether there is something intrinsically better about machine or manually wound coils.




And the only complex machine that can be reproduced by unskilled labor!

Jerry


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52d9a1ab.3020...@attglobal.net

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread John Hasler

Ralf Mardorf wrote: 
  Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
  mechanically wounded coil does?

I doubt that it would in a double-blind experiment.

 The mechanically wound coil is more precise!

The mechanically wound coil could easily be made precisely as imprecise
as you wish.  Repeatably.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87txd2fg10@thumper.dhh.gt.org

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:21:49 -0800 Ralf 
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  

   
  Living beings are able to self-repair, to eat and to produce the needed 
  energy for doing some work. You only need to interrupt electrical power 
  given by humans, to kill a machine. 
   

I'm not arguing one is better than the other, just in all situations neither is 
the best. You said in another reply that we haven't created a computer that can 
create as we do, which is good otherwise we would be out-competed and certainly 
shortly become extinct. But I don't think human-like creativity is restricted 
humans. Any sufficiently advanced alien lifeform could reproduce such 
creativity. And I think there is no reason a sufficiently complex digital 
life-form could not do the same. Our best computers are at the level of 
complexity of a bug or small reptile. 

The best argument in favor of analog, human-created things is a blow job. 
Nothing beats a blow job, and no matter how many plastic tubes and lube have 
been sold, none can beat a warm, wet analog, human mouth. So until we are 
finally replaced, up with humanity!


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/961042879.863.1389994800889.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.241.245]

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 16:33 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
 And the only complex machine that can be reproduced by unskilled labor!

Yesno, we need to be able to interact with other humans, in the real
world! ... to reproduce ourself ;)



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389994900.5878.48.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 15:35 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
 Ralf Mardorf wrote: 
   Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
   mechanically wounded coil does?
 
 I doubt that it would in a double-blind experiment.

But your doubts are wrong, it was done a trillion times :p.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389994975.5878.49.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:33:31 -0800 Jerry Stuckle wrote  
   
   
  
  And the only complex machine that can be reproduced by unskilled labor! 
  
  Jerry 

And not only that, it is in fact quite fun and enjoyable to make people. While 
I enjoy tinkering with my computers, it was more better making my children.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/1630896868.877.1389995337102.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.241.245]

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 13:38 -0800, cletusjenkins wrote:
  On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:21:49 -0800 Ralf 
 Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  
 

   Living beings are able to self-repair, to eat and to produce the needed 
   energy for doing some work. You only need to interrupt electrical power 
   given by humans, to kill a machine. 

 
 I'm not arguing one is better than the other, just in all situations neither 
 is the best. You said in another reply that we haven't created a computer 
 that can create as we do, which is good otherwise we would be out-competed 
 and certainly shortly become extinct. But I don't think human-like creativity 
 is restricted humans. Any sufficiently advanced alien lifeform could 
 reproduce such creativity. And I think there is no reason a sufficiently 
 complex digital life-form could not do the same. Our best computers are at 
 the level of complexity of a bug or small reptile. 
 
 The best argument in favor of analog, human-created things is a blow job. 
 Nothing beats a blow job, and no matter how many plastic tubes and lube have 
 been sold, none can beat a warm, wet analog, human mouth. So until we are 
 finally replaced, up with humanity!

I agree, but they will kill you and now me too, because you mentioned
that. Sexuality is a taboo! It's evil, it doesn't exist in the clean
computer world!

Computers are clean, they do everything better than humans ... and if
you watch television you should be aware that they eat our planet to
reproduce themself and be more smart than we are!

Wow, on what are those folks? Please let me know, I wont to take the
same mix of drugs :p.





-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389995600.5878.56.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 13:47 -0800, cletusjenkins wrote:
  On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:33:31 -0800 Jerry Stuckle wrote  


   
   And the only complex machine that can be reproduced by unskilled labor! 
   
   Jerry 
 
 And not only that, it is in fact quite fun and enjoyable to make people. 
 While I enjoy tinkering with my computers, it was more better making my 
 children.

And I prefer to talk to your children and you than to have a talk with
my PC ;).



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389995924.5878.57.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Karen Lewellen

well, I have no children, but the making process is indeed far more fun 
then putting my hands inside a box.  And consider all the wonderfully 
imaginative and beautiful human art that results?
Computer cases seem so...bland by comparison with say George Clooney 
packages.Kare


On Fri, 17 Jan 2014, cletusjenkins wrote:


 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:33:31 -0800 Jerry Stuckle wrote 
 
 

 And the only complex machine that can be reproduced by unskilled labor!

 Jerry

And not only that, it is in fact quite fun and enjoyable to make people. While 
I enjoy tinkering with my computers, it was more better making my children.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/1630896868.877.1389995337102.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.241.245]





--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/pine.bsf.4.64.1401171650450.73...@server1.shellworld.net

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 16:53 -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
 Computer cases seem so...bland by comparison with say George Clooney 
 packages.

Women?!

As a heterosexual man now I have to disagree, I prefer the sexy body of
my female computer case compared to the odd shape of George Clooney.

Karen, you are completely mistaken :D.



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389996787.5878.61.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Karen Lewellen


Have you seen the movie her?
one person's case is another person's preference! smiles.
Kare

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 16:53 -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Computer cases seem so...bland by comparison with say George Clooney
packages.


Women?!

As a heterosexual man now I have to disagree, I prefer the sexy body of
my female computer case compared to the odd shape of George Clooney.

Karen, you are completely mistaken :D.



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389996787.5878.61.camel@archlinux





--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/pine.bsf.4.64.1401171721470.74...@server1.shellworld.net

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit


 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:53:20 -0800 Ralf 
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote  

  I agree, but they will kill you and now me too, because you mentioned 
  that. Sexuality is a taboo! It's evil, it doesn't exist in the clean 
  computer world! 

Any computer sufficiently complex to be considered sentient will have its own 
particular perversions, different due to the differing physical hardware, but 
still. Even the simplistic insect/bacteria computers we have now are far from 
clean:

(Not safe for work:) 
http//www.iseekgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/carly_moore_naked.jpg

(hoipefully such links do not violate some rule, if so I apologize, but I 
couldn't help myself)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/152421747.75235.1390002994566.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.252.227]

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Joel Rees

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote:
On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
keyboard.

Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
but handcrafted by a craftsman.

But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.

Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
first katana ;)?

This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.

Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can?

A good knife is not made by tolerances measurable by a machine cheap
enough to make good-enough knives at cheap prices.

The complex array of sensors and the highly pattern-intensive
calculation that goes on when a good craftsman are not cheap, and not
compact, in any machine we make. We have the general ideas, now,
perhaps for the first time in history, but we are hitting the limits
of the technology, and we are running out of resources just as we
think we are in reach of the holy-grail of duplicating what
$primalCondition has done in creating us.

Or
are you against interchangeability?

There is 6-sigma kinds of quality, and there is
tuned-to-the-individual kinds of quality, which is only partially
related to the manufacture of a good knife.

Assuming they could hold these
tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?

No company I know of has the resources necessary to build the machine
theoretically capable of producing a truly good knife and put it into
operation mass-producing truly good knives.

On the other hand, a good-enough knife that can take an edge from a
whetstone can be used as a close approximation to a truly good knife
in our day-to-day consumer-level uses.

Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.

If we use computers in our work, we need to understand the
differences. I remember in the good-old-days being told every now
and then by an office worker in some bureaucratic office or other that
my data wouldn't fit in the database records. Sometimes, the humans in
the system were willing to provide work-arounds, sometimes they
weren't. I remember reading accounts in the newspaper of lives lost
because of such bureaucratic intolerances, system intolerances that
were blamed on the computers or the designers of the computer parts of
the system.

And we on this list regularly engage in finding workarounds.

And the so-called commercial closed-source solutions tend to need
more of this kind of community support than the open-souce so-called
non-commercial stuff we are using.

Which is why we keep using it, even though there are continually
voices telling us that the grass is greener on the closed-source,
anti-freedom (non-)solutions side of the fence.

--
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor
Strangelove
Key ID 8D549279

So it is a bit of navel-gazing, perhaps, but I think it's on-topic
navel-gazing, myself.

--
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
http://lists.debian.org/caar43iohbo4jh1b4za0-fl8hj7byy+qxgrwfjfrppr7ezya...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Joel Rees

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:51 AM, cletusjenkins cletusjenk...@zoho.com wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:53:20 -0800 Ralf
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote

I agree, but they will kill you and now me too, because you mentioned
that. Sexuality is a taboo! It's evil, it doesn't exist in the clean
computer world!

Any computer sufficiently complex to be considered sentient will have its own
particular perversions, different due to the differing physical hardware, but
still. Even the simplistic insect/bacteria computers we have now are far from
clean:

(Not safe for work:) [obviously inappropriate link elided]

(hoipefully such links do not violate some rule, if so I apologize, but I
couldn't help myself)

There are two problems with such links.

One is that iseekgirls.[domain] is going to have a high probability
of harbouring drive-bys and other kinds of malware that we don't
really want to subject our current version of flash+browser to.

As food for thought, it seems to me that the other problem, while I
assume it's the one you reference in your comment about rules,
involves principles of human condition which parallel the computer
security problem. If you don't see what I mean, consider, who pays for
the server space and internet bandwidth, why, and with what money?

--
Joel Rees

Be careful where you see conspiracy.
Look first in your own heart.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
http://lists.debian.org/caar43in2hntz30lobj+7dofxy5cz_nsdvlosuhxudc-47pb...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 09:43:10PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
  Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
  blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
  keyboard.
 
 Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred 
 years
 and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
 but handcrafted by a craftsman.

But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
   
   Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
   knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke doesn't
   work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
   weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
   same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
   used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
   computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
   don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago and
   they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is better.
   It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as it
   never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
   first katana ;)?
  
  This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.
  
  Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
  crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
  are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
  tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?
  
  Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.
 
 Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
 mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
 precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
 super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
 brains.

Sounds better is subjective. Can't be measured. Tolerances can be.
Besides, what does that have to do with my question?

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10:10:32PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 22:02 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
  On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 21:43 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 12:13 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:07:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 12:05 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
  On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
   On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that 
will
blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a 
mouse /
keyboard.
   
   Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several 
   hundred years
   and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled 
   machine,
   but handcrafted by a craftsman.
  
  But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.
 
 Correct! And I suspect that it isn't allowed to sell and buy a good
 knife in Germany anymore without a firearms licence (this joke 
 doesn't
 work in German, we don't have a firearms licence, here it's called
 weapon license). IOW to get a good pastry chef's knife you need the
 same weapon license you need for a katana or pump gun. So people are
 used to use carp to cut a steak and they win the impression, that
 computer controlled machines can punch out good tools ... they simply
 don't know how good the quality of tools was just a few decades ago 
 and
 they believe all the hype that in the digital age everything is 
 better.
 It simply isn't better, quality of technology nowadays is as worse as 
 it
 never was before, let alone social quality. When did they build the
 first katana ;)?

This really belongs on the OT list but I'll reply anyway.

Ralph, do you think monks in a Carpathian monastery lovingly hand
crafting parts can maintain the same tolerances as CNC machinery can? Or
are you against interchangeability? Assuming they could hold these
tolerances, how many people/companies could/would pay for them?

Face it. You can only take this good old days schtik so far.
   
   Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a
   mechanically wounded coil does? The mechanically wound coil is more
   precise! Don't underestimate human touch. The human brain is a
   super-computer, no computer build by humans is able to compare with our
   brains.
  
  PS:
  
  Do you ask a computer to compute who is the best person to be the
  perfect boy/girl-friend? Is intuition less or more substantial?
  
  If humans would be aware to program a CNC machine perfectly, they
  perhaps could be better or at least equal to human work, but we are
  unable to do it.
  
  Humans feel the right point, a computer doesn't.
 
 Sorry, for the PPS, but I worked with CNC machines.
 
 CNC machines need to sense the surface as human need to do, but they
 don't have that perfect senses as humans have got.
 
 We aren't talking just about measurements, but about assessment, math
 interpolation can't compare to human knowledge/feeling.

You are if you want interchangeability of parts.

 
 Is there any computer able to produce just a simple pop song that
 reaches the top ten? A computer is able to produce a jazz, rock,
 classical style song, but not able to touch human emotions.
 
 So are you saying computers are better than humans?

At some tasks, of course.

Pop songs? Relationships? What does that have to do with producing
anything tangible? Don't forget, without the creature comforts made
possible with high volume production, all your free time would be taken
up scratching out an existence from the soil with none left to enjoy the
esoteric pleasures you talk about. 

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10:42:55PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 15:35 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
  Ralf Mardorf wrote: 
Why does a manually wound coil for guitars does sound better than a 
mechanically wounded coil does?
  
  I doubt that it would in a double-blind experiment.
 
 But your doubts are wrong, it was done a trillion times :p.

Didn't your mother tell you a million times don't exaggerate.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Karen Lewellen

..besides, the film I referenced her, is all about a sensing computer 
who trust me has no problem with sexuality.

Kare

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014, cletusjenkins wrote:



 On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:53:20 -0800 Ralf 
Mardorfralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote 

 I agree, but they will kill you and now me too, because you mentioned
 that. Sexuality is a taboo! It's evil, it doesn't exist in the clean
 computer world!

Any computer sufficiently complex to be considered sentient will have its own 
particular perversions, different due to the differing physical hardware, but 
still. Even the simplistic insect/bacteria computers we have now are far from 
clean:

(Not safe for work:) 
http//www.iseekgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/carly_moore_naked.jpg

(hoipefully such links do not violate some rule, if so I apologize, but I 
couldn't help myself)


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/152421747.75235.1390002994566.JavaMail.sas1@[172.29.252.227]





--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/pine.bsf.4.64.1401180101470.7...@server1.shellworld.net

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 22:35 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
 Pop songs? Relationships? What does that have to do with producing
 anything tangible?

It has got, but I want to end this discussion.

I wonder when humans became as cold as ice :(.

http://www.parorobots.com/ Pure and clean, better than a real cat or a
real dog :(, they also plan to replace human care attendants by robots.
No joke, for conversations with old people they already use robots and
they claim that this is good, the care attendants could do the physical
work and don't need to spend time to talk to the old people :(.

But lets end this discussion. Computers are good and lets continue
complaining sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit, just because some humans
won't understand the limits of computers.

:(
Ralf


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1390025225.5878.69.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 07:45:04PM +0200, Cristian Baboi wrote:
 În data de Thu, 16 Jan 2014 19:36:09 +0200, Iain M Conochie
 Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that
 will blowus all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a
 mouse / keyboard.
 
 
 There would not be 3D interfaces because they are skeuomorphic and
 this is bad design.
 All interfaces will be flat! :-)

After having read this post:
http://www.themachinestarts.com/read/2012-11-how-we-started-calling-visual-metaphors-skeuomorphs-why-apple-design-debate-mess
I am not sure I understand your remark.

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140118063238.GA5651@tal

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:17PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 Certainly humans have technology, and gadgets, and technological power
 (awesome chariots, ...

Mmmm, so the last chariot I saw wasn't on Ben Hur?

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140118065211.GB5651@tal

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-17 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 1/18/14, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:17PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 Certainly humans have technology, and gadgets, and technological power
 (awesome chariots, ...

 Mmmm, so the last chariot I saw wasn't on Ben Hur?

Yes, definitely, and did you notice the fine leather work on those
chariots? the Selley's poly glue stuff used to join the spokes of the
wheels to the rims? the fine muck-metal buckles for the reins (muck
metal is _so_ inexpensive it's awesome!)

:)


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/caosgnstpuuebpntfs-gsywh-dlgegu8_at567s5f2qmzbob...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 01:38:08PM -0800, cletusjenkins wrote:
 I'm not arguing one is better than the other, just in all situations
 neither is the best. You said in another reply that we haven't created
 a computer that can create as we do, 

What do yo mean we? Just because one person is a good musician doesn't
mean we are. Just because one person is a great craftsman
doesn't mean all people *can* be.

 be out-competed and certainly shortly become extinct. But I don't
 think human-like creativity is restricted humans. Any sufficiently
 advanced alien lifeform could reproduce such creativity. 

You're making that up! :)

Just a bit of advice, if it's not NSFW why on earth do you think it's
OK on this list?  Do you say what ever you like to your mother or anyone
you meet?

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140118074241.GC5651@tal

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 10:32:07AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
 As food for thought, it seems to me that the other problem, while I
 assume it's the one you reference in your comment about rules,
 involves principles of human condition which parallel the computer
 security problem. If you don't see what I mean, consider, who pays for
 the server space and internet bandwidth,  why, and with what money?

What! Surely it is simpler than that? Would you discuss the same things
with your boss as you would with your sexual counsellor. If your boss *is*
your sexual counsellor then substitute sexual counsellor with
partner(s) or mistress, whichever is appropriate.

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140118075136.GD5651@tal

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Sat, 2014-01-18 at 18:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 On 1/18/14, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:17PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
  Certainly humans have technology, and gadgets, and technological power
  (awesome chariots, ...
 
  Mmmm, so the last chariot I saw wasn't on Ben Hur?
 
 Yes, definitely, and did you notice the fine leather work on those
 chariots? the Selley's poly glue stuff used to join the spokes of the
 wheels to the rims? the fine muck-metal buckles for the reins (muck
 metal is _so_ inexpensive it's awesome!)
 
 :)

http://antiqwatch.com/all/bronnikovs-unique-wooden-pocket-watches.html

Not antique, a Russian still build such watches. But of cause, an atomic
clock is more precise ... that reminds me to run ntpdate, because
computer clocks are the most precise clocks ;).



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1390031602.5878.73.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Jo, 16 ian 14, 11:38:01, Robert Brockway wrote:
 
 FWIW I expect yet another disruptive technology to come along soon.
 I very much doubt we'll be using a single finger or thumb to type on
 small mobile screens to get anything done in 10 years time.

I agree.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Andrei POPESCU

On Mi, 15 ian 14, 16:53:15, Jarth Berilcosm wrote:
 
 Computers are cheap crap because they can be made to be cheap crap. The 
 production proces permits this.

Of course it does, as it is possible to make knifes that don't cut (not 
sharpened, bad quality steel, etc.). IMNSHO the problem is with 
consumers that buy such crap instead of voting with their money.

Kind regards,
Andrei
P.S. Reply-To: -offtopic
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Gian Uberto Lauri

Andrei POPESCU writes:
  On Mi, 15 ian 14, 16:53:15, Jarth Berilcosm wrote:
   
   Computers are cheap crap because they can be made to be cheap crap. The 
   production proces permits this.
  
  Of course it does, as it is possible to make knifes that don't cut (not 
  sharpened, bad quality steel, etc.). IMNSHO the problem is with 
  consumers that buy such crap instead of voting with their money.

I think that you are partially right: people is under massive bombing
by advertisements and other such messages that they 'must' have these
'technological marvels' [1].

Most of these bombed ones lack the  know how required to resist to the
bombing itself,  and their only  judgment meter  is how much  does it
cost?.

[1]  After all  programs  within computers  animate  the brute  matter
creating immaterial servants, and that  is magic. And the problem with
magic is that for each real sorcerer you find ten thousand charlatans.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/21207.39724.95577.597...@mail.eng.it

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Thursday 16 January 2014 02:06:23 Ma Xiaojun wrote:
 I guess Unix junkie can claim xterms with whatever window manager a
 desktop.

You are being hamstrung by your own definition of desktop.  It's basic 
meaning is something (in this case a computer) that sits on top of 
your desk.  It does not necessarily need windows at all.  Desktop 
computers as opposed to computers which fill a room.

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201401160937.21525.lisi.re...@gmail.com

corrigendum: Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Lisi Reisz

On Thursday 16 January 2014 09:37:21 Lisi Reisz wrote:
 It's basic
 meaning

Ouch!  Its basic meaning


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201401161026.47345.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Zenaan Harkness

On 1/16/14, Ma Xiaojun damage3...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:08 PM, Jarth Berilcosm ja...@yahoo.com wrote:
Looking back on using Linux as a desktop OS for almost 15 years we've
seen tons of features added but not much in terms of 'bite'.

Also, how many projects can one need for a specific purpose built on the
libraries of a parent project providing 80% of the functionality. How
much of these improvements go upstream, if at all ? I suspect the open-
and-free-model lacks the incentive to go forth with fusing projects to
making delivery of targets more timely.

I don't understand what you mean.
What I see is that Red Hat is being more and more like a dictator.

I'll bite - I DO want to see an end to this type of 'meme'! :

Red Hat has been an absolutely outstanding Free/Libre software
corporation, steadfastly sticking to fully libre licenses, including
for numerous acquisitions the company has made!

Time and again, Red Hat has developed software in house, and released
it under a totally libre license!

Time and again, Red Hat has purchased some external software house,
which was under proprietary license, and then just to turn around and
release it under a totally libre license!

Of course they are judicious with what they purchase (just to turn
around and release as libre software).
Of course they are judicious with their in-house development human resources.

Rightly so! And let's hope Red Hat the company remains judicious, and
exemplary, and an outstanding member of the free software community
(my definition thank you).

For just one example:
- I am unable to use systemd, due to some mismatches (bugs) between I,
my current usage and knowledge patterns, and how Debian, and other
software I use, currently all work together.
- But based on all I've read, systemd, for Linux based systems, is
quite superior to anything we've seen before, for what it does. We
want a top-notch tradition computer desktop? I certainly do, and
systemd, AFAICS, will certainly help us get there. And note: systemd
was only adopted (by Red Hat/ Fedora) may be two years after Lennart
started developing it in his own time.
- Based on Red Hat's history alone, I believe that systemd has been
chosed for technical superiority reasons. Yes, it will help servers.
Yes, it will help desktops.

I think that the main problem we libre software community face at the
moment is as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread - the talent
pool has shifted at least somewhat to more exciting projects (a shiny
new Android IM app anyone? we really could use another! :) :)

We who are able ought to step up to those plates which are important
to us (eg audio drivers, input systems, whatever).

But let's not bash one of our community's greatest corporate allies
ever - Red Hat!

Regards,
Zenaan

PS, I even tried to use Red Hat once, not long before the community
edition was split into Fedora, or perhaps just after, but at that time
I was all command-line-only, and the different locations of things and
different ways of doing things, just wasn't worth it to me.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
http://lists.debian.org/CAOsGNSSyNy=T-5wjhggtK9yvf02=6kkipLrdFVz=sxkbxrz...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread yaro

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 10:40:40 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:
 On 1/16/14, Ma Xiaojun damage3...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:08 PM, Jarth Berilcosm ja...@yahoo.com wrote:
  Looking back on using Linux as a desktop OS for almost 15 years we've
  seen tons of features added but not much in terms of 'bite'.
  
  Also, how many projects can one need for a specific purpose built on the
  libraries of a parent project providing 80% of the functionality. How
  much of these improvements go upstream, if at all ? I suspect the open-
  and-free-model lacks the incentive to go forth with fusing projects to
  making delivery of targets more timely.
  
  I don't understand what you mean.
  What I see is that Red Hat is being more and more like a dictator.
 
 I'll bite - I DO want to see an end to this type of 'meme'! :
 
 Red Hat has been an absolutely outstanding Free/Libre software
 corporation, steadfastly sticking to fully libre licenses, including
 for numerous acquisitions the company has made!
 
 Time and again, Red Hat has developed software in house, and released
 it under a totally libre license!
 
 Time and again, Red Hat has purchased some external software house,
 which was under proprietary license, and then just to turn around and
 release it under a totally libre license!
 
 Of course they are judicious with what they purchase (just to turn
 around and release as libre software).
 Of course they are judicious with their in-house development human
 resources.
 
 Rightly so! And let's hope Red Hat the company remains judicious, and
 exemplary, and an outstanding member of the free software community
 (my definition thank you).
 
 For just one example:
 - I am unable to use systemd, due to some mismatches (bugs) between I,
 my current usage and knowledge patterns, and how Debian, and other
 software I use, currently all work together.
 - But based on all I've read, systemd, for Linux based systems, is
 quite superior to anything we've seen before, for what it does. We
 want a top-notch tradition computer desktop? I certainly do, and
 systemd, AFAICS, will certainly help us get there. And note: systemd
 was only adopted (by Red Hat/ Fedora) may be two years after Lennart
 started developing it in his own time.
 - Based on Red Hat's history alone, I believe that systemd has been
 chosed for technical superiority reasons. Yes, it will help servers.
 Yes, it will help desktops.
 
 I think that the main problem we libre software community face at the
 moment is as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread - the talent
 pool has shifted at least somewhat to more exciting projects (a shiny
 new Android IM app anyone? we really could use another! :) :)
 
 We who are able ought to step up to those plates which are important
 to us (eg audio drivers, input systems, whatever).
 
 But let's not bash one of our community's greatest corporate allies
 ever - Red Hat!
 
 Regards,
 Zenaan
 
 PS, I even tried to use Red Hat once, not long before the community
 edition was split into Fedora, or perhaps just after, but at that time
 I was all command-line-only, and the different locations of things and
 different ways of doing things, just wasn't worth it to me.

I think this attitude toward Red Hat stems from a subculture developing in the 
FOSS movement that corporation == evil. Thing is, you're right: Red Hat has 
been doing an examplary job, especially in developing technologies for Linux 
to make a usable personal desktop.

I'm an Arch user on the desktop, and I use Debian Stable on my server. Let me 
tell you I would jump for joy if I could switch to systemd on my server 
without having to hand-write most the unit files I'd need to get it back in 
working order. Instead I'd rather see Jessie go to systemd. I know this would 
alienate Debian Hurd and Debian BSD people, but let's be perfectly frank here: 
They're fringe projects few actual real-world Debian users care about, and 
shouldn't slow real-world, actual Debian progress over.

I definitely am for at least giving most of Red Hat's ideas they try on Fedora 
a spin. Systemd works like a charm on systems designed to make use of it (Arch 
and Gentoo (As a fully-suppored alternative to OpenRC.). No need to mention 
Fedora.) 

The worst option to follow these days is actually Ubuntu, which uses Upstart, 
which does what systemd does, only backwards and in a poorly thought out way, 
and the fact they want to jump to Mir (A half-baked, half-assed alternative 
to Xorg and Wayland minus compatibility for either.), which is going to 
effectively kill their usable software library as most upstream projects like 
KDE, Qt, and GTK+ have said in no uncertain terms they won't support Mir, 
which will mean Ubuntu will lose compatibility with 95% of the established 
desktop software base for Linux. 

Following Fedora on the desktop is a good idea. Following Ubuntu on the 
desktop is a BAD idea. 

I disagree that the FOSS talent has jumped ship, though (Heck,

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Iain M Conochie


snip


A lot of Linux geeks spent a lot of time worrying about Microsoft's 
desktop dominance over those years.  I would often hear people claim 
that Linux had to get on to the desktop *now* (1999, 2004, 2007, etc) 
or it would be locked out *forever*.


I concluded some time in the late 90s that sooner or later a 
disruptive technology would come along and completely rewrite the 
rules on computer interfaces, making any current desktop dominance 
irrelevant.


Absolutely spot on.

Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will blow 
us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse / keyboard.


Iain


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52d81889.2050...@thargoid.co.uk

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Cristian Baboi


În data de Thu, 16 Jan 2014 19:36:09 +0200, Iain M Conochie
i...@thargoid.co.uk a scris:


snip


A lot of Linux geeks spent a lot of time worrying about Microsoft's
desktop dominance over those years.  I would often hear people claim
that Linux had to get on to the desktop *now* (1999, 2004, 2007, etc)
or it would be locked out *forever*.

I concluded some time in the late 90s that sooner or later a disruptive 
technology would come along and completely rewrite the rules on

computer interfaces, making any current desktop dominance irrelevant.


Absolutely spot on.

Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will blow 
us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse / keyboard.




There would not be 3D interfaces because they are skeuomorphic and this  
is bad design.

All interfaces will be flat! :-)

---
Acest email este fără viruși sau programe dăunătoare deoarece protecția 
antivirusului avast! este activă.
http://www.avast.com


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/op.w9sjlewg0b9...@nvidia.fritz.box

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Ralf Mardorf

On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
 Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
 blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
 keyboard.

Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
but handcrafted by a craftsman.

It could be that computers will be used by a keyboard and a mouse even
in 300 years, because this is a good way to do it and in addition it
could be, that computers are not that much used as today, people perhaps
find back to play a real music instrument, to handcraft a lot of things
again, to get better quality. They perhaps will read books again instead
of Linux sucks blogs.

When parallel ports replaced serial ports nobody imagined that serial
ports once will replace parallel ports, but they did and it also could
be that analog technology will replace a lot of digital technology in
the future.

Sure, in the future we might be able to control computers by thinking,
the technology once will be available, but perhaps humans start making
social progress and aren't under a spell of computers anymore. The
computer in the future might be a tool for tasks a computer is useful,
but beyond that people might be completely disinterested in using
computers.

Regards,
Ralf



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389895091.658.16.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Ignazio Palmisano

On 15 January 2014 21:42, Jarth Berilcosm ja...@yahoo.com wrote:
 On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 11:08:22 -0600, yaro wrote:

 Yeah, well, all this bitching proves i should look harder for the off-
 topic list.


True.
I.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/CAD2jOMOwBcwOhAjdy9TgQidAi_p=pu1xgkip4b5q3k08p_2...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Robert Holtzman

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 06:58:11PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-01-16 at 17:36 +, Iain M Conochie wrote:
  Gazing into my crystal ball, there will be a 3D interface that will
  blow us all away, and the kids will laugh at us for using a mouse /
  keyboard.
 
 Not necessarily! We eat using classic knifes since several hundred years
 and btw. a good knife isn't produced by a computer controlled machine,
 but handcrafted by a craftsman.

But these, sure as hell, aren't sold in grocery stores.

 
 It could be that computers will be used by a keyboard and a mouse even
 in 300 years, because this is a good way to do it and in addition it
 could be, that computers are not that much used as today, people perhaps
 find back to play a real music instrument, to handcraft a lot of things
 again, to get better quality. They perhaps will read books again instead
 of Linux sucks blogs.

You're, indulging in wishful thinking. That world died circa 1970. It won't 
return because large corporations won't be able to make as much money as they 
can now. Sad, huh?

 
 When parallel ports replaced serial ports nobody imagined that serial
 ports once will replace parallel ports, but they did and it also could
 be that analog technology will replace a lot of digital technology in
 the future.

Don't hold your breath.

 
 Sure, in the future we might be able to control computers by thinking,
 the technology once will be available, but perhaps humans start making
 social progress and aren't under a spell of computers anymore. The
 computer in the future might be a tool for tasks a computer is useful,
 but beyond that people might be completely disinterested in using
 computers.

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Your mail is being read by tight lipped 
NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor 
Strangelove 
Key ID 8D549279


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Ma Xiaojun

Yet another read: http://www.g4ilo.com/linux.html


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
http://lists.debian.org/cagvx7uu0egsy4p__-k8c9pzvrsinlz7wpgjmdqf0_nabafa...@mail.gmail.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-16 Thread Ralf Mardorf

On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 14:29 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
 Yet another read: http://www.g4ilo.com/linux.html

So what?

I bought a professional sound card, that should work with Linux, but it
doesn't, it does perfectly work on Windows XP.

XP isn't a bad OS regarding to some technically things, I anyway won't
use it.

I want that humans share knowledge! So I use FreeBSD and Linux! For the
industry Microsoft and Apple are more interesting, so more hardware will
run on that platforms. Nobody cares about quality of technology, nobody
does care about humanity, only money is important.

Humans stagnate! We made technologically progress all the times, so it
isn't progress by definition, it's just that one crap becomes the
successor of other crap. We never made any social progress! Watch the
news!



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389940910.3167.44.camel@archlinux

sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit


Looking back on using Linux as a desktop OS for almost 15 years we've 
seen tons of features added but not much in terms of 'bite'. 

Hardware support is a lot better but still sucks when it comes to 
consumer multi-media, gaming performance etc. 

Someone wrote down a well documented list on all this and more

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/
why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html


What bothers me most on this list is the mention of uncountable 
regressions. Subjectively i came to the same conclusion as observed on 
various occasion even with commercial products. The word uncountable 
seems a bit harsh though not unimaginable. If so, this is bad, verry bad 
as it indicates a possible lack of oversight and follow-up or peer 
review. 

Let's just hope there's nothing lurking beneath the surface shall we. 
( Linux would not be generated by an AI would it not ? :D )

Fortunately there are some great projects ahead to improve the desktop, 
let's keep them fingers crossed one more time :-)

I'm honestly a bit amazed the desktop is not a priority for developers 
which often seem to be keen on serious gaming, at last the few I've met 
seemed to be. Maybe they have a secret Microsoft box in the house for 
that, or a console of sorts. Or an Apple.

Also, how many projects can one need for a specific purpose built on the 
libraries of a parent project providing 80% of the functionality. How 
much of these improvements go upstream, if at all ? I suspect the open-
and-free-model lacks the incentive to go forth with fusing projects to 
making delivery of targets more timely. 

Good developers are rare and should not be spread across so many 
projects. Good developers resolve bugs rather than building an economy 
upon them. A bug is a great marketing instrument for creating leverage, 
but it's also something stuck in the back of one's head in the long run.

Please consider the above with a grain of salt, i am not always known for 
a delicate choice of words.

Cheerio,

J.

-- 
jabadaba doooh ooh h


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.01.15.14.08...@yahoo.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-15 Thread Ralf Mardorf


 Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed
 point has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions
 centered on it, proving that I haven't pulled it out of my  expletive
 . And please always check your facts.

 If you get an impression that Linux sucks - you are largely wrong. If
 I had to create a list of Windows problems, it would be almost as long
 as this one.

- http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

Unworldly!

A lot of people think like you, not understanding that digital
technology can't compare to analog technology. Sure, using a computer
humans can do some things that can't be done manually or by analog
technology, but most things are from much higher quality, when done with
analog technology or manually. Multimedia, toolmaking, ... an endless
list.

We use computers, because analog technology and handcrafted things are
to expensive, the complete philosophy of human kind did go a step in the
wrong direction.

I'm pro computers, already using Linux for more than 10 years, but
started much earlier with computers in the late 80s.

It's a misunderstanding to guess that computer technology is that
progressed. Computers are cheap crap. If you are aware that they are
nothing but cheap crap, you can use them from an relatively objective
point of view.

Less expectations = less disappointment

High expectations = high disappointment

IOW your opinion is subjective from an unworldly point of view.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: You sent to the wrong list. I only Cc'ed to Debian user and sent to
the off-topic list. I suspect replies should go to this list only.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389803341.1846.21.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:29:01 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

I'm using a news-reader and could not find the off-topic mailinglist.

Sorry to say so but your reply sounds more like rambling than anything. 
I'll reply to the part i was able to comprehend.

Expectations ? Man, get a good night sleep.

Computers are cheap crap because they can be made to be cheap crap. The 
production proces permits this.

 Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed point
 has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions centered on
 it, proving that I haven't pulled it out of my  expletive
 . And please always check your facts.
 
 If you get an impression that Linux sucks - you are largely wrong. If I
 had to create a list of Windows problems, it would be almost as long as
 this one.
 
 -
 http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/
why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
 
 Unworldly!
 
 A lot of people think like you, not understanding that digital
 technology can't compare to analog technology. Sure, using a computer
 humans can do some things that can't be done manually or by analog
 technology, but most things are from much higher quality, when done with
 analog technology or manually. Multimedia, toolmaking, ... an endless
 list.
 
 We use computers, because analog technology and handcrafted things are
 to expensive, the complete philosophy of human kind did go a step in the
 wrong direction.
 
 I'm pro computers, already using Linux for more than 10 years, but
 started much earlier with computers in the late 80s.
 
 It's a misunderstanding to guess that computer technology is that
 progressed. Computers are cheap crap. If you are aware that they are
 nothing but cheap crap, you can use them from an relatively objective
 point of view.
 
 Less expectations = less disappointment
 
 High expectations = high disappointment
 
 IOW your opinion is subjective from an unworldly point of view.
 
 Regards,
 Ralf
 
 PS: You sent to the wrong list. I only Cc'ed to Debian user and sent to
 the off-topic list. I suspect replies should go to this list only.





-- 
jabadaba doooh ooh h


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.01.15.16.53...@yahoo.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-15 Thread yaro

On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 04:53:15 PM Jarth Berilcosm wrote:
 On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 17:29:01 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 
 I'm using a news-reader and could not find the off-topic mailinglist.
 
 Sorry to say so but your reply sounds more like rambling than anything.
 I'll reply to the part i was able to comprehend.
 
 Expectations ? Man, get a good night sleep.
 
 Computers are cheap crap because they can be made to be cheap crap. The
 production proces permits this.
 
  Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed point
  has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions centered on
  it, proving that I haven't pulled it out of my  expletive
  
  . And please always check your facts.
  
  If you get an impression that Linux sucks - you are largely wrong. If I
  had to create a list of Windows problems, it would be almost as long as
  this one.
  
  -
  http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/
 
 why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
 
  Unworldly!
  
  A lot of people think like you, not understanding that digital
  technology can't compare to analog technology. Sure, using a computer
  humans can do some things that can't be done manually or by analog
  technology, but most things are from much higher quality, when done with
  analog technology or manually. Multimedia, toolmaking, ... an endless
  list.
  
  We use computers, because analog technology and handcrafted things are
  to expensive, the complete philosophy of human kind did go a step in the
  wrong direction.
  
  I'm pro computers, already using Linux for more than 10 years, but
  started much earlier with computers in the late 80s.
  
  It's a misunderstanding to guess that computer technology is that
  progressed. Computers are cheap crap. If you are aware that they are
  nothing but cheap crap, you can use them from an relatively objective
  point of view.
  
  Less expectations = less disappointment
  
  High expectations = high disappointment
  
  IOW your opinion is subjective from an unworldly point of view.
  
  Regards,
  Ralf
  
  PS: You sent to the wrong list. I only Cc'ed to Debian user and sent to
  the off-topic list. I suspect replies should go to this list only.


These reasons why Linux is not ready for the desktop lists are so stupid. 
Sure they're objective. But you know how easy it is to take Windows or OS X, 
grab a list of THEIR flaws, and call them reasons *they* aren't ready for the 
desktop? This is practically trolling. Nothing to see here people, move along.

Conrad


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1526474.kVutC6NRmJ@twilight

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-15 Thread Ralf Mardorf

On Wed, 2014-01-15 at 16:53 +, Jarth Berilcosm wrote:
 I'm using a news-reader and could not find the off-topic mailinglist.

That is a good example how the cheap crap called computer nowadays is
misused, for laziness, carelessness, abyss of ignorance, to produce
other cheap crap.

 Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed
 point has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions

So it's nothing more than an opinion underpinned with some links,
instead of objectivity and hard research. It takes seconds to underpin
that all US presidents are shapeshifters, that there never was a
Holocaust (no not Godwin). I try to point out that you can underpin
every unreflected opinion by links.

There are only a few exceptions a computer is good for. The computer is
the most overvalued tool humans invented.

And again, I like computers, but I don't overvalue computers = more
satisfaction for me, than for you Jarth. Your disappointment is based on
wrong points of departures.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1389806547.1846.37.camel@archlinux

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-15 Thread Miles Fidelman


Ralf Mardorf wrote:
It's a misunderstanding to guess that computer technology is that 
progressed. Computers are cheap crap. If you are aware that they are 
nothing but cheap crap, you can use them from an relatively objective 
point of view.


Well put :-)



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52d6c609.5040...@meetinghouse.net

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

2014-01-15 Thread steef




 Origineel bericht 


On Wed, 2014-01-15 at 16:53 +, Jarth Berilcosm wrote:

I'm using a news-reader and could not find the off-topic mailinglist.


That is a good example how the cheap crap called computer nowadays is
misused, for laziness, carelessness, abyss of ignorance, to produce
other cheap crap.


Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed
point has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions


So it's nothing more than an opinion underpinned with some links,
instead of objectivity and hard research. It takes seconds to underpin
that all US presidents are shapeshifters, that there never was a
Holocaust (no not Godwin). I try to point out that you can underpin
every unreflected opinion by links.

There are only a few exceptions a computer is good for. The computer is
the most overvalued tool humans invented.

And again, I like computers, but I don't overvalue computers = more
satisfaction for me, than for you Jarth. Your disappointment is based on
wrong points of departures.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org




excellent, ralf.

reg.,

steef


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52d6e000.4090...@home.nl

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit

On Wed, 15 Jan 2014 18:22:27 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

Honestly ?  Get a break, go live in a tent or something.



 On Wed, 2014-01-15 at 16:53 +, Jarth Berilcosm wrote:
 I'm using a news-reader and could not find the off-topic mailinglist.
 
 That is a good example how the cheap crap called computer nowadays is
 misused, for laziness, carelessness, abyss of ignorance, to produce
 other cheap crap.
 
 Most importantly this list is not an opinion. Almost every listed point
 has links to appropriate articles, threads and discussions
 
 So it's nothing more than an opinion underpinned with some links,
 instead of objectivity and hard research. It takes seconds to underpin
 that all US presidents are shapeshifters, that there never was a
 Holocaust (no not Godwin). I try to point out that you can underpin
 every unreflected opinion by links.
 
 There are only a few exceptions a computer is good for. The computer is
 the most overvalued tool humans invented.
 
 And again, I like computers, but I don't overvalue computers = more
 satisfaction for me, than for you Jarth. Your disappointment is based on
 wrong points of departures.
 
 Regards,
 Ralf
 
 PS: d-community-offto...@lists.alioth.debian.org





-- 
jabadaba doooh ooh h


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2014.01.15.21.39...@yahoo.com

Re: sad but true, Linux sucks, a bit