Re: Swap Distribution
On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 06:33:24AM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 02:10:48PM +, Colin Watson wrote: > > That looks excellent. There's already quite a lot of cooperation between > > HP and Debian, with a number of Debian developers employed by HP and > > improving the distribution in directions that are favourable to both > > parties. Employing developers is probably the most efficient way for a > > company to help itself support Debian well. > > Out of personal curiosity, what sorts of activities fill the day of a > corporate-employed open-source developer? No personal experience, but judging from the prolific output of the average such developer I'd say they're very busy. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Swap Distribution
On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 02:10:48PM +, Colin Watson wrote: > > That looks excellent. There's already quite a lot of cooperation between > HP and Debian, with a number of Debian developers employed by HP and > improving the distribution in directions that are favourable to both > parties. Employing developers is probably the most efficient way for a > company to help itself support Debian well. Out of personal curiosity, what sorts of activities fill the day of a corporate-employed open-source developer? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Swap Distribution
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:29:19PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:39:38PM +, Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > If somebody actually set up full scale enterprise-style global support > > for Debian, then we'd be happy to link to them, and probably help them > > in any way feasible. > > HP? > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/12/04/HNhpdebian_1.html > InfoWorld: HP to expand Debian GNU/Linux support: December 04, 2003 That looks excellent. There's already quite a lot of cooperation between HP and Debian, with a number of Debian developers employed by HP and improving the distribution in directions that are favourable to both parties. Employing developers is probably the most efficient way for a company to help itself support Debian well. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Swap Distribution
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:39:38PM +, Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:56:37PM +0200, Juha Ylitalo wrote: > > Most common reply to this kind of comments is that you can always buy > > similar support for Debian, but www.debian.org/consultants doesn't list > > any big companies like IBM, etc. that could guarantee global support. > > Even www.progeny.com, which probably has some kind of support for > > Debian, doesn't have any figures which system administrator could use > > for making some rough calculations on expected expenses, when they make > > purchase orders. For these reasons, redhat.com provides convening > > one-stop service point, where you can purchases all that you need for > > next x years. > > Right, but that's Red Hat's business model, so obviously they're going > to give you the figures. They aren't doing it out of the kindness of > their hearts ... > > If somebody actually set up full scale enterprise-style global support > for Debian, then we'd be happy to link to them, and probably help them > in any way feasible. HP? http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/12/04/HNhpdebian_1.html InfoWorld: HP to expand Debian GNU/Linux support: December 04, 2003 Peace. -- Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Go through his clothes and look for loose change. - Princess Bride pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Swap Distribution
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:56:37PM +0200, Juha Ylitalo wrote: > Most common reply to this kind of comments is that you can always buy > similar support for Debian, but www.debian.org/consultants doesn't list > any big companies like IBM, etc. that could guarantee global support. > Even www.progeny.com, which probably has some kind of support for > Debian, doesn't have any figures which system administrator could use > for making some rough calculations on expected expenses, when they make > purchase orders. For these reasons, redhat.com provides convening > one-stop service point, where you can purchases all that you need for > next x years. Right, but that's Red Hat's business model, so obviously they're going to give you the figures. They aren't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts ... If somebody actually set up full scale enterprise-style global support for Debian, then we'd be happy to link to them, and probably help them in any way feasible. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Swap Distribution
on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:14:03PM -0200, Leandro Guimar?es Faria Corsetti Dutra ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Em Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:46:12 -0300, Mariano Wahlmann escreveu: > > > i want to know if debian > > has the an automatic update tool (like up2date), i read that debian use > > apt > > Which is much better than up2date. Amen. > > how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep releasing uptades for > > 5 years for each version. Thanks. > > Debian makes smooth upgrades, but doesn't keep support after the > following version is released. You can contract it if you like. More specifically: Debian releases tend to occur at 1 - 2 year intervals (see below). After release, the prior stable release continues to be supported for security updates for a period of time. This isn't officially stated, but tends to be for at least several months after a stable release. In the case of "potato", Debian 2.2, support was continued for 12 months following the release of "woody", Debian 3.0. This was discussed in the following summary of a survey of security support requests: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200302/msg00010.html To: Debian Development Announcements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Results from the Security Survey last Year From: Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:17:05 +0100 ... I will probably continue to support potato with security updates at least until end of June 2003 and I hope that the other members of the Security Team will do the same. This means that we support potato for additional 12 months after the release of woody, which is much more than users can expect from a group of volunteers who only work on the system for the sake of it. ... So that you're aware: it's *VASTLY* more trivial to update Debian systems than RH. Part of the payoff of the long release cycle is that _live_ system updates _work_. On the rollover from old stable to new stable, you simply issue: # apt-get update; apt-get -u dist-upgrade ...and your packages are updated. There _will_ be questions, and in a production environment, you're *strongly* urged to run the upgrade on a test platform _first_, to ensure your needs are met. In practice, however, It Just Work®. Usually. And if it doesn't you file a bug. (see http://bugs.debian.org/ or the "reportbug" package. And FYI: Debian Release Dates 0.93R6 Oct 26, 1995 1.1 ``buzz''Jun 17, 1996 1.2 ``rex'' Dec 12, 1996 1.3 ``bo'' Jun 5, 1997 2.0 ``hamm''Jul 24, 1998 2.1 ``slink'' Mar 9, 1999 2.2 ``potato'' Aug 15, 2000 3.0 ``woody'' Jul 19, 2002 Peace. -- Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Microsoft Outlook: the security hole that happens to be an email client -- Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, in "How to avoid ILOVEYOU", May, 2000 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Swap Distribution
On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 19:33, Vineet Kumar wrote: ... > debian's maintenance and upgrade facilities blow everything at redhat > out of the water. Completely. In the redhat world, a reinstall is SOP. > With Debian, you'll never have to reinstall. Upgrades just work. While I am using Debian in my server at home, I've upgraded bunch of RedHat Linux machines from 7.3 to 8, 8 to 9, 9 to Fedora Core 1 with apt-get (that has been compiled for RPMs) without any major problems. Of course, you can do RedHat Linux upgrade with bood floppies/CDs, but there has been easier ways for while... > > read that debian use apt, how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep > > releasing uptades for 5 years for each version. > > I don't know where you get that figure. This: ... > I haven't been paying all that close attention, but I'm pretty sure 9 > wasn't released in 1999, nor even 8.0 for that matter. I guess he was referring to RedHat Enterprise Linux. http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/ says following: Stability 12-18 month release cycle and five years of support for every version. [end of quote] Downside in RHEL is that you have to pay those yearly fees, but thats the price you have to pay, if you want/need to run Oracle or some of the other close source applications, which they only support on specific Linux distributions, or you need to be certain that your platform is supported for next five years. Debian doesn't give you similar guarantees, since it all depends on how long some volunteers are willing to maintain old versions from their packages. Most common reply to this kind of comments is that you can always buy similar support for Debian, but www.debian.org/consultants doesn't list any big companies like IBM, etc. that could guarantee global support. Even www.progeny.com, which probably has some kind of support for Debian, doesn't have any figures which system administrator could use for making some rough calculations on expected expenses, when they make purchase orders. For these reasons, redhat.com provides convening one-stop service point, where you can purchases all that you need for next x years. -- Juha Ylitalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] +358 40 562 6152 http://www.iki.fi/jylitalo "Some tools are used, because its policy, others because they are good." signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Swap Distribution
* Mariano Wahlmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031204 05:46]: > Hi, I'm currently admin , and here we use RedHat distribution, but last > tendencies of RedHat, told me that i must to change my Linux > Distribution, i thought about Debian, wich is very popular, but i want > to know if debian has the an automatic update tool (like up2date), i debian's maintenance and upgrade facilities blow everything at redhat out of the water. Completely. In the redhat world, a reinstall is SOP. With Debian, you'll never have to reinstall. Upgrades just work. > read that debian use apt, how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep > releasing uptades for 5 years for each version. I don't know where you get that figure. This: Red Hat Linux -- Red Hat's policy for Red Hat Linux distributions is to provide maintenance for at least 12 months. At certain times, Red Hat may extend errata maintenance for certain popular releases of the operating system. End of Life dates for errata maintenance for currently supported products are listed below: Red Hat Linux 9 (Shrike)April 30, 2004 Red Hat Linux 8.0 (Psyche) December 31, 2003 Red Hat Linux 7.3 (Valhalla)December 31, 2003 Red Hat Linux 7.2 (Enigma) December 31, 2003 Red Hat Linux 7.1 (Seawolf) December 31, 2003 comes from here: http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/ I haven't been paying all that close attention, but I'm pretty sure 9 wasn't released in 1999, nor even 8.0 for that matter. good times, Vineet -- http://www.doorstop.net/ -- "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- E.W. Dijkstra signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Swap Distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:46:12AM -0300, Mariano Wahlmann wrote: > Hi, I'm currently admin , and here we use RedHat distribution, but last > tendencies of RedHat, told me that i must to change my Linux > Distribution, i thought about Debian, wich is very popular, but i want > to know if debian has the an automatic update tool (like up2date) Debian came up with the idea, we were there first. Then Microsoft copied it craptastically with windowsupdate.microsoft.com, then RedHat made up2date... > i read that debian use apt, how long did debian keep support? Two years at most usually. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/z2tYUzgNqloQMwcRAorDAKC5O04L+z/6O6chAwVoZ167kxbQzQCgifPr fasz0PWGNR3f2qsE7f8aVcI= =dSQo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Swap Distribution
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:14:03PM -0200, Leandro Guimar?es Faria Corsetti Dutra wrote: > Em Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:46:12 -0300, Mariano Wahlmann escreveu: > > > i want to know if debian > > has the an automatic update tool (like up2date), i read that debian use > > apt > > Which is much better than up2date. Heh! Yeah... Once you get used to apt, you'll wonder how you ever got by without it. > > how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep releasing uptades for > > 5 years for each version. Thanks. > > Debian makes smooth upgrades, but doesn't keep support after the > following version is released. You can contract it if you like. I'm pretty sure this bit is not true. Obsolete versions get security updates for a while after the new release comes out... I don't think there's a guaranteed time-frame for that (this being Debian, it runs something like "until it becomes too much of a pain")... But I believe the devels aim for "about a year". Cheers! -- ---<>--- He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom. - J.R.R. Tolkien --<>-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Swap Distribution
Em Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:46:12 -0300, Mariano Wahlmann escreveu: > i want to know if debian > has the an automatic update tool (like up2date), i read that debian use > apt Which is much better than up2date. > how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep releasing uptades for > 5 years for each version. Thanks. Debian makes smooth upgrades, but doesn't keep support after the following version is released. You can contract it if you like. -- Leandro GuimarÃes Faria Corsetti Dutra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> +55 (11) 9406 7191 Belo Horizonte, Londrina, SÃo Paulo +55 (11) 5686 9607 http://br.geocities.com./lgcdutra/ +55 (11) 5685 2219 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Swap Distribution
Hi, I'm currently admin , and here we use RedHat distribution, but last tendencies of RedHat, told me that i must to change my Linux Distribution, i thought about Debian, wich is very popular, but i want to know if debian has the an automatic update tool (like up2date), i read that debian use apt, how long did debian keep support?, RedHat keep releasing uptades for 5 years for each version. Thanks. - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
