Re: A simple Thank You

[longwind2]

 Gear says thanks for work put into Debian development

meaning of Debian developer is clear


On Thursday, August 8, 2024 at 06:37:05 AM GMT+8, Wesley 
 wrote:


what do you mean by saying "debian developer"? developing on debian, or 
developing debian?

Thanks.
  

Re: A simple Thank You

[Wesley]

what do you mean by saying "debian developer"? developing on debian, or 
developing debian?

Thanks.


> 
> how many user here are debian developer?
> 
> many users here are IT professional, eager to help. 
> 
> but I am not sure they are debian developers.
>

Re: A simple Thank You

[longwind2]

 how many user here are debian developer?

many users here are IT professional, eager to help. 

but I am not sure they are debian developers.  

A simple Thank You

[Gameming Gear]

Hello.

I just wanted to thank you for the work you put into Debian development.

I have tried multiple distributions to find the best stability without
having a load of updates.
I even recommend Debian to my friends and family, they love it!

Here's 1 minute of my time to thank you.

💙

Re: Thank you Debian

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

> Subject: Thank you Debian

You're very welcome!

Thanks for providing this ansible repo. I added it to my bookmarks
to share it when people ask me for advice.

(Some people replied with sound advice regarding your questions so I
won't answer them again).

Regards,
-- 
PEB


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Re: Thank you Debian

[Michel Verdier]

On 2024-02-22, an...@rodier.me wrote:

>> What makes you chose ansible instead of a debian package applying your
>> scripts and configurations?
>
> I didn't want to create a new distribution, I wanted scripts to
> configure a bare distribution, that anyone could maintain using the
> standard Debian procedures afterwards.

Doing your own package with own configurations is not doing a
distribution. It's doing a .deb and putting it in a local repo. Then it's
just a part of the apt update/upgrade process.

> Also, if you have a look to the solution, you will see that the
> integration between all the packages is not appropriate to the packages
> modification.

Your own package don't change regular packages, it just runs scripts and
puts configurations. Just as ansible does but more integrated in debian
packaging system.

Re: Thank you Debian

[andre]

On 22/02/2024 11:58, Michel Verdier  wrote:

On 2024-02-21, Andre Rodier wrote:

> A few years ago, I created a set of Ansible scripts to code what I was already
> doing manually, so I could rebuild my server from scratch.

What makes you chose ansible instead of a debian package applying your
scripts and configurations?


I didn't want to create a new distribution, I wanted scripts to configure a 
bare distribution, that anyone could maintain using the standard Debian 
procedures afterwards.

Also, if you have a look to the solution, you will see that the integration 
between all the packages is not appropriate to the packages modification.



> - What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in the
>   packages configuration ?
> - Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
>configuration files ?

There is some debian packages for internal checks: rkhunter, tiger,
lynis, checksecurity, john, etc
Also OpenVAS https://openvas.org/ (fork from nessus) and other tools in
Kali Linux (debian-based)

Re: Thank you Debian

[Michel Verdier]

On 2024-02-21, Andre Rodier wrote:

> A few years ago, I created a set of Ansible scripts to code what I was already
> doing manually, so I could rebuild my server from scratch.

What makes you chose ansible instead of a debian package applying your
scripts and configurations?

> - What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in the
>  packages configuration ?
> - Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
>   configuration files ?

There is some debian packages for internal checks: rkhunter, tiger,
lynis, checksecurity, john, etc
Also OpenVAS https://openvas.org/ (fork from nessus) and other tools in
Kali Linux (debian-based)

Re: Thank you Debian

[Andre Rodier]

On 21/02/2024 22:58, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 5:47 PM Andre Rodier  wrote:

[...]

A few years ago, I created a set of Ansible scripts to code what I was
already doing manually, so I could rebuild my server from scratch.

The solution is on GitHub, and while there was already a plethora of
existing solutions, none of them implemented everything I wanted and
needed. It was apparently challenging:

1. A DNS server included, with DNSSEC implemented, and SSHFP.
2. Everything from Debian packages, so upgrade can be automatic.
3. No git clone and no zip download for any service.
4. The usual LetsEncrypt, but also the extra like CAA, DANE, etc...
5. All services should be running under AppArmor.
6. No PHP, no RoundCube, NextCloud, OwnCloud, etc please.
7. Jabber server, with c2s and s2s.
8. CardDAV and CalDAV server.
9. WebDAV server.
10. LDAP for authentication, not a MySQL database.
11. IPv6 support

The points #2 and #3 are particularly interesting. I seriously cannot
understand why or how people could trust a server exposed on internet,
without automatic updates from a serious community like Debian. Are they
suppose to receive alerts from GitHub releases to manually download them
as they happen ? How can this be done while they are on vacation ?
Excuse my naive question, if it is, please.

I precise, I am using unattended upgrades, and automatic reboot, and
never had any issue, thanks to Debian packages quality. I just sometimes
receive a nice email saying the server rebooted.

This wouldn't have been possible with the Debian community, so, again,
thank you for that.

We have been happy with this solution, for myself, and a few friends and
family members, but I would like the opinion from the security experts
on this list.

- What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in
the packages configuration ?
- Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
configuration files ?


You will probably need to stitch together several different solutions,
based on the context. For example, use an Ansible Linter for your
Ansible scripts, <https://www.google.com/search?q=Ansible+linter>.

Jeff



Thanks, Jeff.

Yes, Ansible lint is configured as a git hook in the distribution.

Kind regards,
André

Re: How to find system configuration vulnerabilities; was: Thank you Debian

[Andre Rodier]

On 21/02/2024 21:08, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 21 Feb 2024 19:03 +, from an...@rodier.me (Andre Rodier):

- What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in the
packages configuration ?
- Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
configuration files ?


My understanding is that both Lynis and Vuls are popular for
already-installed systems. If you have your configuration packaged as
Ansible scripts, then deploying that onto a disposable VM based on a
minimal Debian installation should be a reasonably practical way of
auditing the deployment process itself for vulnerabilities.
Thanks, I will try this approach, this is a good idea. Yes, using a VM 
is easy, that's the approach I used for the development.



A web search for something like "linux local vulnerability scanner"
will provide you with additional leads.
I tried the debsecan package, which is good as well. I will see if I can 
make this more readable and integrated with the distribution.



Note that any automated tool will use some kind of heuristics so (a)
may find things that are not actually vulnerabilities in your setup,
and (b) might not find something which _is_ a vulnerability in your
setup

Of course, as usual with this kind of tools.

Thanks for your insights.

André

Re: Thank you Debian

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 5:47 PM Andre Rodier  wrote:
> [...]
>
> A few years ago, I created a set of Ansible scripts to code what I was
> already doing manually, so I could rebuild my server from scratch.
>
> The solution is on GitHub, and while there was already a plethora of
> existing solutions, none of them implemented everything I wanted and
> needed. It was apparently challenging:
>
> 1. A DNS server included, with DNSSEC implemented, and SSHFP.
> 2. Everything from Debian packages, so upgrade can be automatic.
> 3. No git clone and no zip download for any service.
> 4. The usual LetsEncrypt, but also the extra like CAA, DANE, etc...
> 5. All services should be running under AppArmor.
> 6. No PHP, no RoundCube, NextCloud, OwnCloud, etc please.
> 7. Jabber server, with c2s and s2s.
> 8. CardDAV and CalDAV server.
> 9. WebDAV server.
> 10. LDAP for authentication, not a MySQL database.
> 11. IPv6 support
>
> The points #2 and #3 are particularly interesting. I seriously cannot
> understand why or how people could trust a server exposed on internet,
> without automatic updates from a serious community like Debian. Are they
> suppose to receive alerts from GitHub releases to manually download them
> as they happen ? How can this be done while they are on vacation ?
> Excuse my naive question, if it is, please.
>
> I precise, I am using unattended upgrades, and automatic reboot, and
> never had any issue, thanks to Debian packages quality. I just sometimes
> receive a nice email saying the server rebooted.
>
> This wouldn't have been possible with the Debian community, so, again,
> thank you for that.
>
> We have been happy with this solution, for myself, and a few friends and
> family members, but I would like the opinion from the security experts
> on this list.
>
> - What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in
> the packages configuration ?
> - Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
> configuration files ?

You will probably need to stitch together several different solutions,
based on the context. For example, use an Ansible Linter for your
Ansible scripts, <https://www.google.com/search?q=Ansible+linter>.

Jeff

Re: How to find system configuration vulnerabilities; was: Thank you Debian

[Timothy Butterworth]

On February 21, 2024, at 4:08 PM, Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net> 
wrote:

>On 21 Feb 2024 19:03 +, from an...@rodier.me (Andre Rodier):
>> - What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in the
>> packages configuration ?
>> - Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
>> configuration files ?
>My understanding is that both Lynis and Vuls are popular for
>already-installed systems. If you have your configuration packaged as
>Ansible scripts, then deploying that onto a disposable VM based on a
>minimal Debian installation should be a reasonably practical way of
>auditing the deployment process itself for vulnerabilities.
>A web search for something like "linux local vulnerability scanner"
>will provide you with additional leads.
>Note that any automated tool will use some kind of heuristics so (a)
>may find things that are not actually vulnerabilities in your setup,
>and (b) might not find something which _is_ a vulnerability in your
>setup.
>-- 

You can install and run Tenable Nessus Vulnerability scanner. The free version 
can scan like 10 IPs. I use Nessus and it works well. 

Security Blanket is a Security hardening tool suite which is nice and not too 
expensive.


>Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
>“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: How to find system configuration vulnerabilities; was: Thank you Debian

[Michael Kjörling]

On 21 Feb 2024 19:03 +, from an...@rodier.me (Andre Rodier):
> - What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in the
> packages configuration ?
> - Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the
> configuration files ?

My understanding is that both Lynis and Vuls are popular for
already-installed systems. If you have your configuration packaged as
Ansible scripts, then deploying that onto a disposable VM based on a
minimal Debian installation should be a reasonably practical way of
auditing the deployment process itself for vulnerabilities.

A web search for something like "linux local vulnerability scanner"
will provide you with additional leads.

Note that any automated tool will use some kind of heuristics so (a)
may find things that are not actually vulnerabilities in your setup,
and (b) might not find something which _is_ a vulnerability in your
setup.

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Thank you Debian

[Andre Rodier]

Dear Debian community,

I love Debian, used it since Potato, both desktop and server, and I'm 
not planning to change.


I have been using it to host personal servers, especially emails, since 
about 20 years.


A few years ago, I created a set of Ansible scripts to code what I was 
already doing manually, so I could rebuild my server from scratch.


The solution is on GitHub, and while there was already a plethora of 
existing solutions, none of them implemented everything I wanted and 
needed. It was apparently challenging:


1. A DNS server included, with DNSSEC implemented, and SSHFP.
2. Everything from Debian packages, so upgrade can be automatic.
3. No git clone and no zip download for any service.
4. The usual LetsEncrypt, but also the extra like CAA, DANE, etc...
5. All services should be running under AppArmor.
6. No PHP, no RoundCube, NextCloud, OwnCloud, etc please.
7. Jabber server, with c2s and s2s.
8. CardDAV and CalDAV server.
9. WebDAV server.
10. LDAP for authentication, not a MySQL database.
11. IPv6 support

The points #2 and #3 are particularly interesting. I seriously cannot 
understand why or how people could trust a server exposed on internet, 
without automatic updates from a serious community like Debian. Are they 
suppose to receive alerts from GitHub releases to manually download them 
as they happen ? How can this be done while they are on vacation ? 
Excuse my naive question, if it is, please.


I precise, I am using unattended upgrades, and automatic reboot, and 
never had any issue, thanks to Debian packages quality. I just sometimes 
receive a nice email saying the server rebooted.


This wouldn't have been possible with the Debian community, so, again, 
thank you for that.


We have been happy with this solution, for myself, and a few friends and 
family members, but I would like the opinion from the security experts 
on this list.


- What is the best approach to check if there is any vulnerability in 
the packages configuration ?
- Is there any service that could audit the deployment code or the 
configuration files ?


Source code: https://github.com/progmaticltd/homebox
Docs: https://www.homebox.space/index-en.html

Kind regards,
André Rodier

Re: please, help to get the image write done, due to an error. Thank you!

[Steve McIntyre]

Moving this to the debian-user list and setting reply-to accordingly...

On Fri, Feb 09, 2024 at 12:25:15PM +, guido mezzalana wrote:
>Hello
>
>First of all I wish to thank you all Debian's Team! To still enjoy a free OS:)
>
>I am running Ubuntu XFCE and I am using the Disk Image Write to get your lates
>Debian 12.4.1 XFCE on my USB. Unfortunately after a few try I get always an
>error and so I cannot get the job done. I do have a Lenovo X200 which comes
>without DVD writer.

Ummm. What image exactly are you trying to write, and how?

We don't have any images labelled with version 12.4.1. Where did you
get this image from?

What exact errors is the image writer program reporting? Without that
information it's very difficult to help you.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
< sladen> I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it
  note stuck to the mini-bar saying "Paul: This fridge and
  fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering"

Re: Thank you for downloading Debian!

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Loren wrote:
> I attempted to download the current version and in the middle of
> downloading Bit Torrent reset my browser. [...]
> Now what do I do?

I'd try plain https download.
E.g if you wanted to get by Bit Torrent:

  
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/debian-11.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso.torrent

then use your browser or a command line program like "wget" to download

  
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-11.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso

(Other versions than 11.5.0 or other processor types than "amd64" will
of course need other download URLs.
Giving us the URLs of what and where you tried would help with giving you
advise and/or finding out what went wrong.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Thank you for downloading Debian!

[Loren]

I attempted to download the current version and in the middle of
downloading Bit Torrent reset my browser. When I opened my browser
again, the download did not restart and when I go to the website again
to attempt to download it again it takes me to the page stating "Thank
you for downloading Debian!"

I don't want to go to another computer to try to download it again,
and I only have a 1/3 of the file right now. I have tried deleting the
file, clearing my browser settings including the site settings. Now
what do I do?

Loren

Re: cherrytree is available again, now in testing !THANK YOU!

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 13/12/20 8:46 am, Kenneth Parker wrote:



On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 5:47 PM Marco Möller 
<mailto:ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net>> wrote:


Dear Giuseppe Penone!
Dear Evgenii Gurianov!
Dear Andrius Merkys!

    Thank you very much for providing Cherrytree in Debian again!
Maybe I missed an announcement about it. I just found it in the
testing
repository when searching for it before checking for updates for my
flatpak installation of it. It seems to reside there since end of
october already. 



Intriguing Package.  As one, using Microsoft's OneNote on Android, I 
am happy to see an Open Source alternative. It installed fine on my 
Bullseye, and I am in the Learning Curve phase.


Is it possible to import notes from OneNote to Cherrytree?

Thanks!

Kenneth Parker


I installed cherrytree on debian 10 buster using snap install cherrytree
The only problem so far is that printing doesn't work. It can't see any 
of the system printers


--
Jeremy Ardley




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Re: cherrytree is available again, now in testing !THANK YOU!

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 5:47 PM Marco Möller <
ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote:

> Dear Giuseppe Penone!
> Dear Evgenii Gurianov!
> Dear Andrius Merkys!
>
> Thank you very much for providing Cherrytree in Debian again!
> Maybe I missed an announcement about it. I just found it in the testing
> repository when searching for it before checking for updates for my
> flatpak installation of it. It seems to reside there since end of
> october already.


Intriguing Package.  As one, using Microsoft's OneNote on Android, I am
happy to see an Open Source alternative. It installed fine on my Bullseye,
and I am in the Learning Curve phase.

Is it possible to import notes from OneNote to Cherrytree?

Thanks!

Kenneth Parker

cherrytree is available again, now in testing !THANK YOU!

[Marco Möller]

Dear Giuseppe Penone!
Dear Evgenii Gurianov!
Dear Andrius Merkys!

Thank you very much for providing Cherrytree in Debian again!
Maybe I missed an announcement about it. I just found it in the testing 
repository when searching for it before checking for updates for my 
flatpak installation of it. It seems to reside there since end of 
october already.  Anyway, now that also I found out about this, it is a 
good moment to Thank You!

Best wishes,
Marco!

THANK YOU!!!! -Re: Does Debian have a "nag" tool?

[Richard Owlett]

On 08/15/2020 06:53 AM, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:30:13 -0500
Richard Owlett  wrote:


Just missed girlfriend's birthday by 6 weeks :{
[just sent a 'mea culpa' email.]
Is there a better tool than "cron"?

Just looked at its manpage.
I'm looking for something slightly different.

Independent of when I turn on or first do something after midnight on
a specific date I want a reminder to be displayed unless I have taken
a specific action.

As:
   1. I've known her for > 30 years.
   2. I'm a _senior_ citizen.
   3. She is a decade younger.
I am about to receive just retribution.
[She'll claim I'm forgiven due to senility.]

Wish to prevent such a response next year ;/

TIA




Remind?



That's just what "doctor ordered".
Thank you!

Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 26/06/2020 02:50, Default User wrote:

"Beware the censor, for in his heart, he deems himself your master."


main!

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Default User]

"Beware the censor, for in his heart, he deems himself your master. "

Re: Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 6:13 AM  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.
>
> nyah, nyah.
>
> > The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
> > intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing.
>
> Well done.
>
> And to all of you yelling CENSORSHIP!1!!
>
> It's not about opinions. It's about not behaving like a jerk.
>
> Expressing opinions is OK (although some attempt to stay on-topic is
> generally appreciated, but isn't enforced. I, for one, welcome that).
>
> But insulting people isn't OK. And I'm glad people stand up to that.
>

I feel it's also about not tolerating intolerance.  If folks want to be
bigots, then they can go start their own fork without the support or
blessing of us.  Similar to how Gab forked Mastodon (and then Gab broke
itself).

Thank you [was: Reminder about the Debian Code of Conduct]

[tomas]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

[...]

> > Perhaps OP can solve this mystery for us.

nyah, nyah.

> The fact that my email is not in reply to a specific message is
> intentional and is done to avoid fingerpointing.

Well done.

And to all of you yelling CENSORSHIP!1!!

It's not about opinions. It's about not behaving like a jerk.

Expressing opinions is OK (although some attempt to stay on-topic is
generally appreciated, but isn't enforced. I, for one, welcome that).

But insulting people isn't OK. And I'm glad people stand up to that.

Cheers
-- t


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Description: Digital signature

THANK YOU!!!! -was- [Re: LibreOffice Writer - Help system font too small]

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/05/2020 07:07 AM, John Hasler wrote:

  Richard Owlett writes:

Suggestions for a *text editor*, *NOT word processor*, which can set
tab stops at column N1, N2, N3, ... ?


Emacs.



Took me <30 seconds to set Help text font to legible size.
Not sure why it took me that long *ROFL*
The tutorial's author has a sense of humor.
I'm drooling over contents of "goodies package".
Now to read the tutorial.

THANK YOU

Re: (Thank you Tom) Re: David --- Re: WRITING to NTFS drives

[Thomas D Dial]

On Wed, 2019-03-13 at 21:57 +0100, Linux-Fan wrote:
> > On 3/13/19 3:43 PM, Thomas D Dial wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > I contacted a relative who does this routinely. Windows
> > > alternately, I
> > > contacted a relative who does this routinely about the initial
> > > queston
> > > about writing to NTFS file systems from Linux and Windows
> > > alternately.
> > > Although he does this in a dual boot environment, and with either
> > > Ubuntu
> > > or Mint, they should be similar enough to Debian and the proposed
> > > use to
> > > be meaningful.
> > > 
> > > He did not report problems with NTFS as such, but mentioned
> > > possible
> > > OneDrive sync issues and inability of Linux to write to a Windows
> > > drive
> > > if it was closed down in a locked state. I knew nothing of such a
> > > "locked state" and Google search for it indicated only issues that
> > > suggest prior file system corruption that needed chkdsk or SFC
> > > (and
> > > possibly bootrec, or even Windows refresh or reinstall), so
> > > probably not
> > > a meaningful barrier.
> > > 
> > > Prior testing would be appropriate, with verification of the 90%
> > > or more
> > > most common use cases, maybe with help of a relatively
> > > knowledgable user
> > > or a few of them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The locked state might be from a feature introduced in Windows 8:
> Windows
> does not shut down by default but rather goes into suspend-to-disk. If
> the
> data is accessed from another OS while Windows is suspended, Windows'
> and
> the other OS' view on the data may be inconsistent and cause file
> system
> corruption.
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-
> winpc/win10-fast-start-up-quick-boot-warning-suggestion/5fec376c-
> d876-4033-85f6-32c2d2cb5e03
> 
> So for external drives there should not be an issue as long as they
> are
> unmounted/disconnected properly prior to a Windows shutdown or
> alternatively
> one can disable "Fast Startup" completely to avoid its risks.
> 
Thank you for the explanation, and reference, which makes sense and
persuades me to make sure fast startup/quick boot is disabled on the
small number of Windows things on my network. The floundering fix I
mentioned in an earlier post may well have been made necessary by this
"feature." Most of the systems here are on all the time, and I rarely am
in such a hurry that a minute or so to boot from cold would be a
problem.

Tom

> HTH
> Linux-Fan
> 
> OT: Last time I e-mailed the list, my mail's signature could not be
> verified
> successfuly in (at least not in my e-mail client)... I am not sure how
> to
> debug this so it might again be signed incorrectly? :(

Re: (Thank you Tom) Re: David --- Re: WRITING to NTFS drives

[Linux-Fan]

On 3/13/19 3:43 PM, Thomas D Dial wrote:


[...]


I contacted a relative who does this routinely. Windows alternately, I
contacted a relative who does this routinely about the initial queston
about writing to NTFS file systems from Linux and Windows alternately.
Although he does this in a dual boot environment, and with either Ubuntu
or Mint, they should be similar enough to Debian and the proposed use to
be meaningful.

He did not report problems with NTFS as such, but mentioned possible
OneDrive sync issues and inability of Linux to write to a Windows drive
if it was closed down in a locked state. I knew nothing of such a
"locked state" and Google search for it indicated only issues that
suggest prior file system corruption that needed chkdsk or SFC (and
possibly bootrec, or even Windows refresh or reinstall), so probably not
a meaningful barrier.

Prior testing would be appropriate, with verification of the 90% or more
most common use cases, maybe with help of a relatively knowledgable user
or a few of them.


[...]

The locked state might be from a feature introduced in Windows 8: Windows
does not shut down by default but rather goes into suspend-to-disk. If the
data is accessed from another OS while Windows is suspended, Windows' and
the other OS' view on the data may be inconsistent and cause file system
corruption.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance-
winpc/win10-fast-start-up-quick-boot-warning-suggestion/5fec376c-
d876-4033-85f6-32c2d2cb5e03

So for external drives there should not be an issue as long as they are
unmounted/disconnected properly prior to a Windows shutdown or alternatively
one can disable "Fast Startup" completely to avoid its risks.

HTH
Linux-Fan

OT: Last time I e-mailed the list, my mail's signature could not be verified
successfuly in (at least not in my e-mail client)... I am not sure how to
debug this so it might again be signed incorrectly? :(


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Description: PGP signature

(Thank you Tom) Re: David --- Re: WRITING to NTFS drives

[deb]

On 3/13/19 3:43 PM, Thomas D Dial wrote:

On Wed, 2019-03-13 at 11:12 -0400, deb wrote:

On 3/12/19 9:50 PM, David Christensen wrote:

On 3/11/19 11:13 AM, deb wrote:

I saw this question come up

and it set off bells.


Someone asked what the status of WRITING to NTFS drives was.

That it was not yet supported (?) .



*MY* Assumptions:

   * MIXED NETWORK, with Win, Mac, Linux (EXT4 formatted).

   * many portable 1-5TB drives making the rounds, formatted with
NTFS.

   * data loss is unacceptable [to the highest degree that is
possible].



I know that I can read (and verify) files just fine from NTFS on
Debian 9.8

but [if you have direct experience with this]

is writing to these drives from debian actually safe?


[if you have direct experience with this]

what process/tool(s) do you use to validate the writes?


What are other places to ask this?


Thank you!

On 3/12/19 4:40 PM, deb wrote:

I'm faced with people running everywhere with these things, and
dozens of drives.

Writing to NTFS file systems using Debian has worked for me for the
current and past few releases of Debian Stable.  It is not a common
use-case for me any more, so I'll refrain from making comments.


However, it seems like you have a large sneaker net with many
sneakers
and even more feet.  My experiences with a few sneakers and two
feet
prompted me to pursue better solutions (Ethernet network, file
server,
version control server, backups, archives, images, etc.).  I am
curious why you don't do the same?


David



Brace yourself.

They take the drives back and forth *Home*.

(As well as back & forth to clients)..

There is equal volume pumping around the LAN as well.

It appears you have a problem that is more managerial in nature than
technical, that the best technical measures can do no more than
mitigate.

Scary. My employment was in a US DoD agency that was pretty careful
about information assurance generally, where such activity was forbidden
and punished if found. I do not like to think about having to make it
work.

I contacted a relative who does this routinely. Windows alternately, I
contacted a relative who does this routinely about the initial queston
about writing to NTFS file systems from Linux and Windows alternately.
Although he does this in a dual boot environment, and with either Ubuntu
or Mint, they should be similar enough to Debian and the proposed use to
be meaningful.

He did not report problems with NTFS as such, but mentioned possible
OneDrive sync issues and inability of Linux to write to a Windows drive
if it was closed down in a locked state. I knew nothing of such a
"locked state" and Google search for it indicated only issues that
suggest prior file system corruption that needed chkdsk or SFC (and
possibly bootrec, or even Windows refresh or reinstall), so probably not
a meaningful barrier.

Prior testing would be appropriate, with verification of the 90% or more
most common use cases, maybe with help of a relatively knowledgable user
or a few of them.

Tom Dial



Thank You!

Re: Thank you for your insight.

[R0b0t1]

Thank you for the response, though I feel you don't address my
question. Happily though, I spoke with an acquaintance and it was
determined that the subservience to the license (i.e. agreeing to be
bound by the GPL2) could not be offered as consideration as its
restrictions were not the licensee's to offer at the time of
acceptance of the license. The licensee had no rights to offer as part
of the contract, as the contract had not yet given them any rights to
give up. The terms put forth by the GPL2 are only restrictions that
are part of the license.

Furthermore, as stated above, it should seem quite self referential -
I can't offer my acceptance of a license as consideration, because it
is what I am trying to accept.

As I am sure you are aware, under US law there is no contract if both
sides have not provided consideration. This leaves us in the strange
place of gratis licenses being suggestions.

Cheers,
R0b0t1

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>
> Thank you for your insight.
>
> It is a shame that there were no responses. They ignored your post, then
> kept baying at me: "no this is wrong" "you're not a lawyer" "I will not
> lower myself to refute you with arguments!".
>
> As for non-monetary consideration to support an additional no-revocation
> term:
> Many of the old linux-kernel (programmer)rights-holders have received
> nothing, and have made no such promise.
> Many of the contributors (who did not transfer their rights) have
> received nothing.
>
> There is nothing to uphold the contention that they have forfeited their
> default right to rescind license to their property.
> They never made such a promise, they were never paid for such a promise,
> they never contracted for such, etc.
>
> They wrote code, licensed it gratuitously,
> and now an attempt is being made to both control their speech, their
> action, and to basically convert their property.
>
> Most of the entities who have been licensed the works have neither paid
> anything to the various rights-holders,
> nor have they ever contacted nor been contacted by the various
> rights-holders, etc.
>

Re: THANK YOU - was {Re: Documentation of "history" command}

[David Wright]

On Fri 11 May 2018 at 07:40:44 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/11/2018 06:50 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >When I search man-pages.debian.org I get only a page in Chinese(?).
> >The best hit I get doing a web search is
> >  [http://www.tldp.org/LDP/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary/html/x1712.htm]
> >There is a plethora questions/answers, but too narrowly focused.
> >They do display it's potential power.
> >
> The reading assignments given should keep me out of mischief.
> I had missed the ramifications of it being a "built-in"
> Thanks again.

You can also peruse all the builtins in one place with   man builtins
though  man bash  obviously contains a lot more about the use of
history in general.

PS Do distinguish between the history list and the history file.
This tripped up somebody here in January.

Cheers,
David.

THANK YOU - was {Re: Documentation of "history" command}

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/11/2018 06:50 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

When I search man-pages.debian.org I get only a page in Chinese(?).
The best hit I get doing a web search is
  [http://www.tldp.org/LDP/GNU-Linux-Tools-Summary/html/x1712.htm]
There is a plethora questions/answers, but too narrowly focused.
They do display it's potential power.

Suggestions?
TIA



The reading assignments given should keep me out of mischief.
I had missed the ramifications of it being a "built-in"
Thanks again.

Re: thank you everyone who posts here :)

[Kenneth Parker]

I find their Archives very helpful, especially with the Search option.

Also, people here are friendly and helpful.

Good luck!

Kenneth Parker


On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 6:47 AM songbird  wrote:

>   it's a debian/linux play day for me and perhaps
> i can figure out how to fix my issues.
>
>
>   songbird
>
>

thank you everyone who posts here :)

[songbird]

  it's a debian/linux play day for me and perhaps
i can figure out how to fix my issues.


  songbird

Last order, 11/15/17. You forced an order for sunglasses with my order for free watch after completing your survey. I need to cancel the postage and order for the sunglasses. Thank you.

[Quinnon Walker]

THANK YOU {Re: Log Xsensors Core Temperature Data}

[Richard Owlett]

On 10/05/2017 12:00 PM, Reco wrote:

Hi.

On Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 12:11:33PM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:

Is there a way to log the time and temperature data for the CPU from the
xsensors app?

Or, a;alternately, is there an app that will allow me to save the CPU core
time temperature results?


/usr/bin/sensors from lm-sensors package will do it just fine.

Put something like this in cron:

date >> /tmp/cputemp.log; sensors | grep ^Core >> /tmp/cputemp.log

Reco




Thank you Stephen for asking the question
*and*
thank you Reco for your response.
The combination caused me to rethink how to approach some loosely 
related problems. Only one one of which were specifically temperature 
related.

Thank you Debian!

[Jimmy Johnson]

Another release is done! I want to think all involved for keeping as 
much legacy as you have done, good job! Keeping files and file systems 
safe and sound can be a difficult job but a necessary job. Special 
thanks to the KDE team for keeping the legacy oxygen theme, root user 
konqueror filemanagement, kdf, quick launch, etc. I hope that Legacy KDE 
will always be an important part of our future and Debian 10, Buster 
will become the best Linux Distro to ever be installed on a computer. 
Thanks again Debian!


Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Buster - Plasma Version 5.8.6 - EXT4 at sda17
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: how i can instal programe to linux Debian ? thank you

[Mostafa Shahverdy]

>   usually  (as root on a system):
> 
> # apt-get install 
> 
>   will do everything needed.  depending upon the 
> package you may have to configure some things 
> after it is installed.
> 
>   if you do not know the name of the package you
> can use search the package list for keywords to
> see what shows up and use other search utilities
> to show more details.
> 
>   they are available both on-line (
> 
>   https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages
> 
>   )
> 
>   and off-line (
> 
> # apt-get install synaptic
> 
Also if you are using Debian with Gnome desktop, I suggest you install
`gnome-software` using command `sudo apt-get install gnome-software`


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: how i can instal programe to linux Debian ? thank you

[songbird]

Saber Lalam wrote:

which program?

  usually  (as root on a system):

# apt-get install 

  will do everything needed.  depending upon the 
package you may have to configure some things 
after it is installed.

  if you do not know the name of the package you
can use search the package list for keywords to
see what shows up and use other search utilities
to show more details.

  they are available both on-line (

  https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages

  )

  and off-line (

# apt-get install synaptic

  )

  for more general introductory information check:

  https://wiki.debian.org/

  there is also a debian-handbook and debian-reference
(both are also packages which can be installed).


  songbird

how i can instal programe to linux Debian ? thank you

[Saber Lalam]

THANK YOU! - was [Re: Duplicating a partition's directory structure - How?]

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/3/2017 5:28 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:

On 2017-01-03 05:13 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:


I wish to duplicate a partition's directory structure without any of
the existing file contents. The immediate application is a heavily
customized version of an installation DVD. There are two underlying
goals. I wish to reuse some existing utilities which expect to find
data in a particular branch of the directory tree. The second is very
similar in that a person familiar with a structure would assume that
certain types of information will be in a particular sub-directory.

Also this will be an educational experience as I expect the answer
will be elegant in its simplicity and point me towards chasms in my
understanding of Linux.


Found this solution on [1], it seems to work.

$ rsync -a -f"+ */" -f"- *" source/ destination/

Cheers,
Sven


1. http://psung.blogspot.com/2008/05/copying-directory-trees-with-rsync.html



That link was particularly valuable for its description of the 
scope of things that can be accomplished with "filter rules". 
Reading the man page for rsync is more productive for the 
perspective that blog post triggered.


Not only do I have an answer to my specific question but pointers 
to ideas that will simplify achieving my overall goals.

THANK YOU [Re: [Newbie] Can ls command format output my way?]

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/17/2016 9:40 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

ls -R /media/data produces the content but not the NEEDED format.

I want a list like:
/media/data/dir1/filea
/media/data/dir1/fileb
/media/data/dir1/subdir1/filex
/media/data/dir1/subdir1/filey
/media/data/dir1/subdir1/filez
/media/data/dir2/filea
/media/data/dir2/fileb
/media/data/dir2/subdir1/filex
/media/data/dir2/subdir1/filey
/media/data/dir2/subdir1/filez
et cetera

I don't wish anything but full path to all files in a top level
directory.

Followup question how should I found the answer for myself. I
looks basic enough ...
TIA




"find" is what I was looking for.
Browsing the man page suggests I can even select which lines to 
print - i.e. I'm only really in files of form *.html .

Thanks again.

Re: Congratulations Daniel , Your Roof is Covered. Thank You!zM5r

[Dan]

Well you have 24 hours to replace my roof then

Thank You for your time.



On Nov 30, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Uwe Kleine König  wrote:

eksc 
Congratulations Daniel,


The Home Warranty Limited time event.


Never pay for covered home repairs again!


Your Roof is Covered - FREE!


Click Here



Unsub 
Opt Out 











keow
@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@$%^&*()_(*&^%$#@$%^&*()(*&^%$#@$%&*()(*&%$#

Thank you. was: Re: Brother HL-L2300D Mono Laser

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 09 December 2016 00:21:06 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Thursday 08 December 2016 23:52:21 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > Any comments on this printer?  Brother HL-L2300D Mono Laser
> >
> > There seems to be a .deb for an LPR and  CUPSwrapper driver.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Lisi
>
> That was intended to have this URL in it, for the .deb:
> http://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadlist.aspx?&c=gb&lang=en&prod=hll2300
>d_us_eu_as&os=128&type3=625&dlid=dlf006893_000

Thanks, all.  That is very helpful.  I am off away for three days, but 
immediately on return I shall order an HL-L2300D.  I'd do so now, but I don't 
want it delivered while I am away!

Lisi

Re: Congratulations samrmn , Your Roof is Covered. Thank You!Wdw9

[Sam Rahmani]

Screw you.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Brad Rogers  wrote:

> krst
>
> Congratulations samrmn,
> The Home Warranty Limited time event.
> Never pay for covered home repairs again!
> Your Roof is Covered - FREE!
> Click Here
>
> Unsub
> Opt Out
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> ksft
> @#$%^&*()*&^%$#@$%^&*()(*&^%$#@#$%^&*()_(*&^%$#@
>
>

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Richard Owlett]

On 1/21/2016 3:09 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:48:16PM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:

Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2

[...]

Thanks to you for asking the right questions in the right way :-)


[...] I hope I get to pay it forward.


The beauty of the thing is, that (as far as I'm concerned), I've got
the feeling of having received more than I gave: I learn a lot by
researching things and by the insightful answers of other people on
list.



To elaborate on that point, remember that posts to this list are 
archived at

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
and thus searchable with one's preferred tool.

I've several of the posts in threads you began flagged for easy 
retrieval on my local archive of the list.

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Daniel Bareiro]

Hi, Steve.

On 21/01/16 00:48, Steve Matzura wrote:
> Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2
> to get my system up and running. Specific thanks go, in no particular
> order, to Daniel, Gary, Reco, Lisi, Dan, Mudongliang, Joe, the
> Wanderer, Rick Thomas, and many others who took the time and had the
> patience to bootstrap my knowledgebase and put me back on the path to
> Linux enlightenment. Where there's a need, there's a tool. :-) And
> usually more than one. All my hard- soft- and symbolic links except
> two are working correctly, and I know what those two's problems are
> and have fixed but not re-tested them, so my usership is once again at
> piece with the world, and more importantly, me! Thanks again to all of
> you, and I hope I get to pay it forward.

I'm glad to have been able to contribute with my little grain of sand.

These experiences also help us to learn and know that, with will,
initiative and patience, everything is possible.

A great example to be followed for those who are starting with Debian
and are discouraged when things do not work.

It is also nice to see that you have also investigated on your own
several of the things we have suggested. See that attitude is also
something that encourages us to continue helping.


Best regards,
Daniel



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:48:16PM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
> Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2

You're welcome. Glad to be of help.

> Thanks again to all of you, and I hope I get to pay it forward.

Looking forward to it.

Reco 

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 21 January 2016 09:09:12 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> You've asked, you've been polite and patient, you've read the answers
> and tried to make sense of all -- you have motivated people here to
> figure out things... thanks for your contribution :-)

Hear! Hear!  You have been great in this way, Steve.

Lisi

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 21 January 2016 03:48:16 Steve Matzura wrote:
> Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2
> to get my system up and running. Specific thanks go, in no particular
> order, to Daniel, Gary, Reco, Lisi, Dan, Mudongliang, Joe, the
> Wanderer, Rick Thomas, and many others 

Thank _you_ Steve.  I needed cheering up.  It's nice to know that we - and I - 
were useful. :-))

Lisi

> who took the time and had the 
> patience to bootstrap my knowledgebase and put me back on the path to
> Linux enlightenment. Where there's a need, there's a tool. :-) And
> usually more than one. All my hard- soft- and symbolic links except
> two are working correctly, and I know what those two's problems are
> and have fixed but not re-tested them, so my usership is once again at
> piece with the world, and more importantly, me! Thanks again to all of
> you, and I hope I get to pay it forward.
> --
> Steve M, listening, out.

Re: A heart-felt thank-you to all

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:48:16PM -0500, Steve Matzura wrote:
> Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2
[...]

Thanks to you for asking the right questions in the right way :-)

> [...] I hope I get to pay it forward.

The beauty of the thing is, that (as far as I'm concerned), I've got
the feeling of having received more than I gave: I learn a lot by
researching things and by the insightful answers of other people on
list.

You've asked, you've been polite and patient, you've read the answers
and tried to make sense of all -- you have motivated people here to
figure out things... thanks for your contribution :-)

regards
- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlagoDgACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbQSACfSlWHMFsE/XLbAok0fm6zvJaO
AKUAnjzEoAkslCXCt1M/ZQz3k6XDTCbl
=YQVI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

A heart-felt thank-you to all

[Steve Matzura]

Thanks to all who've helped me climb the learning curve of Debian 8.2
to get my system up and running. Specific thanks go, in no particular
order, to Daniel, Gary, Reco, Lisi, Dan, Mudongliang, Joe, the
Wanderer, Rick Thomas, and many others who took the time and had the
patience to bootstrap my knowledgebase and put me back on the path to
Linux enlightenment. Where there's a need, there's a tool. :-) And
usually more than one. All my hard- soft- and symbolic links except
two are working correctly, and I know what those two's problems are
and have fixed but not re-tested them, so my usership is once again at
piece with the world, and more importantly, me! Thanks again to all of
you, and I hope I get to pay it forward.
--
Steve M, listening, out.

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 12/31/2015 08:48 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:


Everyone, please be safe out there.. Talk to people. Let them know
what's going on in your Life. I'm spending a SERIOUS amount of time
today kicking myself for having never even thought to track Ian down
and follow his musings because of his direct impact on my ability to
be able to keep up with the rest of you all...

Cindy.



Just like you Cindy, it never occurred to me that Ian would feel he had 
no one he could talk too, Ian and I where mutual friends, but we never 
talked, it just never occurred to me..this is so sad..


To you developers out there I challenge you to keep "Ian's Dream" alive, 
simple and modular as you go, I have no need for a corporate system or 
auto statistic gathers and updater's running in the background on my system.


Happy New Year to you all and may it be your best year ever,
James R. Johnson
--
Debian Jessie - KDE 4.14.2  - EXT4 - AMD64 at sda10
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Amir H. Firouziyan]

This is sad for me too and I found out this news by Debian logo.
R.I.P. Ian

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 2:14 AM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>
>

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[franiortiz hotmail]

Thanks Ian
we will not forget you


De: Weaver 
Enviado: viernes, 1 de enero de 2016 10:18
Para: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Asunto: Re: RIP and Thank You.

On 2015-12-31 09:24, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:44:26 +
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>>
>
> Official Announcement from Debian:
>
> https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html
>
> RIP, Ian Murdock.

I didn't know him, and only saw the odd statement on list very
occasionally, that was always on point.
This is what personally disturbs me.
The contrast between that, and the obvious disorientation at the end.
Keep many eyes open.

Harry Weaver.
--
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its
government."
  -- Thomas Paine

Registered Linux User: 554515

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Weaver]

On 2015-12-31 09:24, Charlie Kravetz wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:44:26 +
Lisi Reisz  wrote:


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/



Official Announcement from Debian:

https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html

RIP, Ian Murdock.


I didn't know him, and only saw the odd statement on list very 
occasionally, that was always on point.

This is what personally disturbs me.
The contrast between that, and the obvious disorientation at the end.
Keep many eyes open.

Harry Weaver.
--
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its  
government."

 -- Thomas Paine

Registered Linux User: 554515

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Curt]

On 2015-12-31, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 42! How sad.

So it isn't the answer to everything.

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 12/31/15, John L. Ries  wrote:
> If the news report is correct, he appears to have self destructed,
> which is even sadder.


Please go easy on him as we watch how it goes.. This really isn't the
most appropriate place and yet it is for me to say... his whole last
Twitter feed there..

I did a version of that a few weeks ago myself... minus some of it but
and yet enough I'm very much feeling the Shoes he was wearing there..

Gives me some odd insight into where his Mind was that last little while.

That account name he referenced. If you look at his December 10th
tweet, he just pondered out loud about transposing letters that
created unintended yet functional unrelated words. I do that, that's
why it caught my eye.

With that in mind, can anyone try to read his Mind as to what he
really meant by that account name that appears to have helped play its
part in whatever happened?

The other... right at the end there. I'm going to... forward that
somewhere and ask that it be addressed. It just sounds like he's
alleging he was put through phenomenal humiliation at the hands of Law
Enforcement. That guaranteed played its part IF it's true. That needs
addressed in his name and for him.

#RIP, Ian. I live on $480 a month for EVERYTHING #Life costs. YOUR
#Debian is THE REASON I am able to stay within hours of the latest
from current Debian developments while living Life at the speed of
abject #poverty...

Everyone, please be safe out there.. Talk to people. Let them know
what's going on in your Life. I'm spending a SERIOUS amount of time
today kicking myself for having never even thought to track Ian down
and follow his musings because of his direct impact on my ability to
be able to keep up with the rest of you all...

Cindy.

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* . *

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[John Hasler]

Noah Duffy writes:
> Unfortunately, there will be some mystery surrounding his death until
> we get the facts.

At this point it looks like the sort of event that will always have some
mystery surrounding it.  No use speculating, though.  More facts will
come out.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Noah Duffy]

Saw this yesterday evening.  Very sad news.  Unfortunately, there will
be some mystery surrounding his death until we get the facts.

The memory of him will always live on through the Debian project.

-- 
Noah Duffy
noahdu...@fastmail.fm

ASCII ribbon campaign ( )
against HTML e-mail!   X
  / \

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[John L. Ries]

If the news report is correct, he appears to have self destructed,
which is even sadder.

--|
John L. Ries  |
Salford Systems   |
Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
or (435)867-8885  |
--|


On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, Steve Matzura wrote:


42! How sad.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:44:26 +, you wrote:


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Steve Matzura]

You and a few hundred thousand of your closest friends I'm sure. Very
tragic.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 21:28:08 -0200, you wrote:

>Rest in Peace Ian!
>
>I wanna know exactly what happened with him.
>
>On 30 December 2015 at 20:44, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>>
>>

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Steve Matzura]

42! How sad.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:44:26 +, you wrote:

>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Martinx - ジェームズ  writes:

> Rest in Peace Ian!
>
> I wanna know exactly what happened with him.
>
> On 30 December 2015 at 20:44, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/

Yes.  The story as reported so far is really bizarre.

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Rick Thomas]

https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html

> His family has asked for privacy during this difficult time and we very much 
> wish to respect that.

He will be missed…
Rick

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Charlie Kravetz]

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:44:26 +
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>

Official Announcement from Debian:

https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html

RIP, Ian Murdock.

-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Martinx - ジェームズ]

Rest in Peace Ian!

I wanna know exactly what happened with him.

On 30 December 2015 at 20:44, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>
>

Re: RIP and Thank You.

[Dino Picascia]

R.i.p :(

Il mercoledì 30 dicembre 2015, Lisi Reisz  ha scritto:

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/
>
>

-- 

dinopicas...@gmail.com

*GPG: 0xFED2E841*


*Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail notice *

RIP and Thank You.

[Lisi Reisz]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/30/ian_murdock_debian_founder/

THANK YOU - was [Re: Differences Between ThinkPad Models]

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/4/2015 12:28 AM, Joerg Desch wrote:

Am Thu, 03 Dec 2015 13:35:35 -0800 schrieb GC:


Can someone help me compare the differences with each of these laptops?
- Lenovo ThinkPad X60/X60s - Lenovo ThinkPad X60 Tablet - Lenovo
ThinkPad T60 - Lenovo ThinkPad X200 - Lenovo ThinkPad R400 - Lenovo
ThinkPad R500 - Lenovo ThinkPad T400 - Lenovo ThinkPad T500


ThinkWiki is your friend. ;-)

http://www.thinkwiki.org


As I sit here with two Lenovo laptop and a desktop in front of 
me, all I can say is

 *THANK YOU*
I've only scantily browsed the site. Wish I'd seen it sooner ;)

Re: thank you debian developers, helpers, translators, contributors!

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

songbird wrote:

  Jessie is out!  that makes for a lot of time for
folks on the installer, release team, debuggers, 
documentors, etc.


  i appreciate and applaud each of you when i see
what is happening.

  every day your work is helpful to me and to 
others that i help.


  THANK YOU again,



Indeed!

Hugo


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Re: thank you debian developers, helpers, translators, contributors!

[Lisi Reisz]

On Sunday 26 April 2015 14:07:06 songbird wrote:
>   Jessie is out!  that makes for a lot of time for
> folks on the installer, release team, debuggers,
> documentors, etc.
>
>   i appreciate and applaud each of you when i see
> what is happening.
>
>   every day your work is helpful to me and to
> others that i help.
>
>   THANK YOU again,

Hear, hear. :-)

Lisi


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thank you debian developers, helpers, translators, contributors!

[songbird]

  Jessie is out!  that makes for a lot of time for
folks on the installer, release team, debuggers, 
documentors, etc.

  i appreciate and applaud each of you when i see
what is happening.

  every day your work is helpful to me and to 
others that i help.

  THANK YOU again,


  songbird


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Sivaram Neelakantan]

On Wed, Feb 18 2015,Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:


[snipped 18 lines]

> I'm amazed that a typo can bring such an emotional reaction - my email
> was really not about systemd, but about the fact that "Debian Works" -
> at least for me.  I cannot speak for others.

As a first time Debian user, the upgrade and a fresh install worked.
There weren't any surprises anywhere apart from my ignorance.

>
> I feel it is important to praise (or at least: acknowledge) the things
> that go right.  And my upgrade went smoothly.  A lot of work has gone
> into Debian, and I believe it is very important that we encourage the
> things that go right - just complaining about the wrong things is
> insufficient and probably not constructive.

Agree and this install was one of the easiest for me.  which just
worked OOTB.

[snipped 6 lines]



 sivaram
 -- 


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Petter Adsen]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:29:35 +1100
Andrew McGlashan  wrote:
> Okay, you've had two supporting replies, that is virtually none.

...and here's one more. I installed Jessie in a VM a while back, and so
far I have no complaints. Granted, I don't use it for anything
important (yet), but I will probably switch to it as my main OS in the
near future.

> I would like to say a BIG "NO THANKS" ... Debian is much less than it

Then go help the Devuan folks. Or use Slackware. Or FreeBSD. Or...

> Now, just wait until you have some real problems with your systemd
> Jessie installation

I've been using Linux since about '94-'95 or something like that, and
quite honestly I've never felt any particular need to replace my init
system. That said, from what I've seen so far, systemd seems...OK. It's
not a life-changing event. This whole systemd-panic seems a bit
over-inflated to me.

Petter

-- 
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."


pgpVZQErThM2w.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Andrew McGlashan]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 19/02/2015 2:26 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 February 2015 10:32:59 Martin Read wrote:
>> On 18/02/15 07:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>>> What I want from a DPL (another thread), is a DPL that will
>>> remove systemd (for starters), particularly as a system
>>> default.
> 
> I didn't get Andrew's posting (???), so had to go to the archives.
> Andrew said:
> 
>> I would like to say a BIG "NO THANKS" ... Debian is much less
>> than it was for me.
> 
> If you don't want it, Andrew, you don't have to have it.  That's
> fine.  No-one is compelled to use it.  But let the large number of
> people who *do* want to use it, do so in peace.

It is far from that simple Lisi.

The whole idea of what "Debian" is, has changed significantly, that's
the major problem.  And yes, it isn't just Debian that has been given
the RHEL treatment -- the future of Linux in general, is much less
rosy for the requirements that I and many others have for servers.

Kind Regards
AndrewM

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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 18 February 2015 10:32:59 Martin Read wrote:
> On 18/02/15 07:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> > What I want from a DPL (another thread), is a DPL that will remove
> > systemd (for starters), particularly as a system default.


I didn't get Andrew's posting (???), so had to go to the archives.  Andrew 
said:

> I would like to say a BIG "NO THANKS" ... Debian is much less than it
> was for me.  

If you don't want it, Andrew, you don't have to have it.  That's fine.  No-one 
is compelled to use it.  But let the large number of people who *do* want to 
use it, do so in peace.

Lisi


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Martin Read]

On 18/02/15 07:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:

What I want from a DPL (another thread), is a DPL that will remove
systemd (for starters), particularly as a system default.


The DPL has no authority within the Debian project to unilaterally do that.


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Wed, 2015-02-18 at 22:40 +1300, Richard Hector wrote:
> On 17/02/15 23:40, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> > I also ended up with systemd - which I was also somewhat sceptical 
> > about.  But since I could not come up with any technically sound 
> > arguments against it (partially caused by my ignorance of systemd),
> > I decided to take the leap - if nothing else, to be able to
> > honestly criticize it and actually know what I was talking about.
> 
> On 18/02/15 20:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> > You couldn't even bring yourself to say systemd, what's wrong with
> > saying it?
> 
> He did, actually. And described constructive motives.

I did. But in the first paragraph of the email, I *did* have a typo,
where I missed out the 'd' in systemd, which is what I assume Andrew is
referring to.

I'm amazed that a typo can bring such an emotional reaction - my email
was really not about systemd, but about the fact that "Debian Works" -
at least for me.  I cannot speak for others.

I feel it is important to praise (or at least: acknowledge) the things
that go right.  And my upgrade went smoothly.  A lot of work has gone
into Debian, and I believe it is very important that we encourage the
things that go right - just complaining about the wrong things is
insufficient and probably not constructive.

The fact that some people dislike what runs on my system[1] is
immaterial as far as I am concerned. My system works for me.

[1] Yes: "system". No "d". That's on purpose. There are other things in
life.
-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen.


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Andrew McGlashan]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 18/02/2015 8:40 PM, Richard Hector wrote:
> On 17/02/15 23:40, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
>> I also ended up with systemd - which I was also somewhat
>> sceptical about.  But since I could not come up with any
>> technically sound arguments against it (partially caused by my
>> ignorance of systemd), I decided to take the leap - if nothing
>> else, to be able to honestly criticize it and actually know what
>> I was talking about.
> 
> On 18/02/15 20:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>> You couldn't even bring yourself to say systemd, what's wrong
>> with saying it?
> 
> He did, actually. And described constructive motives.

Yes, but the first paragraph he said "system ," 

A.
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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Richard Hector]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 17/02/15 23:40, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> I also ended up with systemd - which I was also somewhat sceptical 
> about.  But since I could not come up with any technically sound 
> arguments against it (partially caused by my ignorance of systemd),
> I decided to take the leap - if nothing else, to be able to
> honestly criticize it and actually know what I was talking about.

On 18/02/15 20:29, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> You couldn't even bring yourself to say systemd, what's wrong with
> saying it?

He did, actually. And described constructive motives.

Richard
(who hasn't got past installing a jessie test VM, and ignoring it)

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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Andrew McGlashan]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

Okay, you've had two supporting replies, that is virtually none.

I would like to say a BIG "NO THANKS" ... Debian is much less than it
was for me.  You couldn't even bring yourself to say systemd, what's
wrong with saying it?

Now, just wait until you have some real problems with your systemd
Jessie installation

What I want from a DPL (another thread), is a DPL that will remove
systemd (for starters), particularly as a system default.

Kind Regards
AndrewM
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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Javier Barroso]

Hello,

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Karl E. Jorgensen
 wrote:
> I see that there has been a fair amount of talk on this mailing list
> about system , Gnome 3 and some general dislike of Debian Jessie as a
> result. So I thought I'd throw in my 2 p
>
> I recently upgraded my main laptop (a fancy new Dell XPS with more SSD
> than I've ever had before) from Wheezy to Jessie, and I have to say:
> Brilliant!
>
> The upgrade took a while (almost exactly 1 hour) and there were a few
> NEWS files presented to me, but no problems surfaced.  Things "just
> worked".  It was a bit of an anticlimax, bordering on boring, followed
> by a nervous reboot.  It took me longer to make sure I had working
> backups and alternate boot media - just in case.
>
> Even though I had opted to install the laptop with a single (big) BTRFS
> file system, this didn't cause as much as a comment by the upgrade.  The
> scripts just got on with their jobs without grumbling.  I was fearing
> that GRUB might have a hiccup on this, as I realise this is not a
> commonly-used set-up, and thus probably less tested.
>
> I *did* end up with Gnome 3 - which I initially was a bit sceptical
> about. I was a Gnome (2?) user with a preference for the "awesome"
> window manager - this did not seem to be an option with Gnome 3.  But
> with Gnome 3 and the Shellshape extension (could somebody package that?
> Otherwise I might!) things are back as I like them. With eye candy to
> boot.  This would probably not be suitable for my low-powered Atom
> netbook, but I'm now confident enough to upgrade that too. Later. When I
> get time.
Yes, please, try to package it, make a RFP, and try to upload to mentors
I asked on gtk-gnome list [1], but nobody had time to package it (I
had not time too)

Regards,
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2014/02/msg4.html


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Re: A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 17 February 2015 10:40:38 Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> I see that there has been a fair amount of talk on this mailing list
> about system , Gnome 3 and some general dislike of Debian Jessie as a
> result. So I thought I'd throw in my 2 p
>
> I recently upgraded my main laptop (a fancy new Dell XPS with more SSD
> than I've ever had before) from Wheezy to Jessie, and I have to say:
> Brilliant!

I, as I mentioned, have also installed systemd and Jessie for the first time.  
I too have been n nervous and was letting the dust settle.  But I needed 
up-to-date for my shiny new media computer.

I tried Linux Mint and MATE first.  We'll draw a veil.  I made myself stick it 
for six months and try to iron the problems out.  My advice?  If you have 
problems with your sight avoid LM and MATE like the plague.

I finally gave myself a break and installed Jessie and TDE 14.

As Karl says, Brilliant.  It installed easily, fast and without a hitch.

> My system now boots in SECONDS. It nearly boots *too* quick. It seems
> like the pause in Grub is taking longer than both the POST and Debian
> boot!?  

Mine too. This is a media computer.  Fast = good.  I have explained to my 
husband that I could even shorten GRUB, but I don't want to - I want easy 
access.

> I'm sure that there is a *lot* of work going on for Debian Jessie that I
> simply have not paid attention to - simply because it did not cause
> problems.  Which is absolutely excellent - that's the way software
> *should* be. Keep up the good work!

I am conservative.  Without all the fuss I would probably have chosen to 
install another, more established, init system.  But in the circumstances, I 
took a deep breath and installed the default.  I love it!  Maybe not at all 
times, in all circumstances, for all people, I don't know.  But for this 
application and this person, Brilliant!  Thank you, developers, for all your 
work.

Lisi


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A big "Thank You" to Debian :-)

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

I see that there has been a fair amount of talk on this mailing list
about system , Gnome 3 and some general dislike of Debian Jessie as a
result. So I thought I'd throw in my 2 p

I recently upgraded my main laptop (a fancy new Dell XPS with more SSD
than I've ever had before) from Wheezy to Jessie, and I have to say:
Brilliant!

The upgrade took a while (almost exactly 1 hour) and there were a few
NEWS files presented to me, but no problems surfaced.  Things "just
worked".  It was a bit of an anticlimax, bordering on boring, followed
by a nervous reboot.  It took me longer to make sure I had working
backups and alternate boot media - just in case.

Even though I had opted to install the laptop with a single (big) BTRFS
file system, this didn't cause as much as a comment by the upgrade.  The
scripts just got on with their jobs without grumbling.  I was fearing
that GRUB might have a hiccup on this, as I realise this is not a
commonly-used set-up, and thus probably less tested.

I *did* end up with Gnome 3 - which I initially was a bit sceptical
about. I was a Gnome (2?) user with a preference for the "awesome"
window manager - this did not seem to be an option with Gnome 3.  But
with Gnome 3 and the Shellshape extension (could somebody package that?
Otherwise I might!) things are back as I like them. With eye candy to
boot.  This would probably not be suitable for my low-powered Atom
netbook, but I'm now confident enough to upgrade that too. Later. When I
get time.

I also ended up with systemd - which I was also somewhat sceptical
about.  But since I could not come up with any technically sound
arguments against it (partially caused by my ignorance of systemd), I
decided to take the leap - if nothing else, to be able to honestly
criticize it and actually know what I was talking about.

As far as I am concerned, the proof is in the pudding: It *works*,
dammit! :-)  I'm sure there are some rough edges somewhere - I just
haven't encountered them. And until I do, I have nothing to complain
about.

My system now boots in SECONDS. It nearly boots *too* quick. It seems
like the pause in Grub is taking longer than both the POST and Debian
boot!?  Booting is as quick as resuming from sleep!  I'm not used to
that!!

I'm sure that there is a *lot* of work going on for Debian Jessie that I
simply have not paid attention to - simply because it did not cause
problems.  Which is absolutely excellent - that's the way software
*should* be. Keep up the good work!

-- 
Karl E. Jørgensen



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Re: Partitioning of new machine - thank you

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 8/11/14, b-m...@gmx.ch  wrote:
> On Saturday 09 August 2014 11.11:08 Gary Dale wrote:
>>
>> To preserve your archive, I'd advise PAR2 redundancy files to fix any
>> problems that may crop up. So long as your HD copies are good, you don't
>> need to go to the PAR2 files, but should one develop a problem, you can
>> fix it with the PAR2 files. Having 5% to 10% redundancy is a lot cheaper
>> than RAID1.
>>
>> You can automate the PAR2 creation by checking for new files and
>> creating PAR2s for them.
>
> Thank you all for the great ideas and opinions.
>
> I've decided to use only one internal ext4 partition w/o any RAID for the
> photos together with par2 for the anti-bit rot plus the external backup.

No probs! :)

I imagine my suggestion for a 30GiB systemd partition made all the difference...


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Re: Partitioning of new machine - thank you

[b-misc]

On Saturday 09 August 2014 11.11:08 Gary Dale wrote:
> 
> To preserve your archive, I'd advise PAR2 redundancy files to fix any
> problems that may crop up. So long as your HD copies are good, you don't
> need to go to the PAR2 files, but should one develop a problem, you can
> fix it with the PAR2 files. Having 5% to 10% redundancy is a lot cheaper
> than RAID1.
> 
> You can automate the PAR2 creation by checking for new files and
> creating PAR2s for them.

Thank you all for the great ideas and opinions.

I've decided to use only one internal ext4 partition w/o any RAID for the 
photos together with par2 for the anti-bit rot plus the external backup.


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Thank you - was [Re: Permission issue]

[Richard Owlett]

Richard Owlett wrote:

My dual boots Squeeze and Wheezy.
I've created a partition whose function in life is to be
essentially a scratch pad for all groups/users of both.
How do I force all files to be written to that partition to be
readable AND writable to everybody?




Thank you Siard and David.I think I now know what is happening 
and why.




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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Wine under Squeeze (6.0.5) - Wheere does it get put by Synaptic?]

[Curt]

On 2013-09-24, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>>
>> /usr/share/doc/wine-doc/ ...
>>
>> for the package 'wine-doc'
>>
>
> The latter is what I was looking for. I'm still getting used to 
> where Debian puts things.

I gave you a fish; the other two posters taught you to fish, which is
better.  Unless you don't like fishing.

Although I think /usr/share/doc is pretty much the canonical place for
'doc', Doc.

man hier

provides some fine fishing for the infamous What-goes-where (typically!)
cold-blooded aquatic vertebrate.


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Thank you - was [Re: Wine under Squeeze (6.0.5) - Wheere does it get put by Synaptic?]

[Richard Owlett]

Curt wrote:

On 2013-09-23, Richard Owlett  wrote:

[I do have *DO* have Wheezy, but that machine no work - unrelated
problems]

I just installed Wine including (so Synaptic verifies) the
documentation.
Can't find it. Where should it have been put?


/usr/share/doc-base/winedev-guide
/usr/share/doc-base/winelib-guide
/usr/share/doc-base/wineusr-guide

+

/usr/share/doc/wine-doc/ ...

for the package 'wine-doc'



The latter is what I was looking for. I'm still getting used to 
where Debian puts things.




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SOLVED was Re: Sound problems on Wheezy upgrade THANK YOU

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 24 September 2013 01:24:09 Gregory Nowak wrote:
> firmware-linux-nonfree installed, and that doesn't seem to have
> helped. So, I would try a newer kernel from debian backports as
> someone else in that thread suggests. HTH.

I already had the firmwqare.  So backport kernel installed, master 
re-set to 100% instead of 0%, to which the new kernel had reset it.

And my loudspeakers blared out!

THANK YOU ALL!

And I was seriously and sadly thinking of abandoning Debian.  Shame on 
me. :-(

Lisi


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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[Richard Owlett]

*CAVEAT LECTOR* - long winded humor included in following

Ralf Mardorf wrote:

I recommend to stay with Debian and to stay for Debian with the Linux
kernel and what ever boot loader you're using now. Test WMs and DEs, win
experiences and in the future you still can decide to use FreeBSD,
another Linux distro and/or other bootloaders.


YEPP



I prefer Linux over FreeBSD, but have both installed, I prefer another
Linux distro, but Debian IMO is a good choice too and the bootloader is
relatively unimportant, as long as it makes the needed multi-boots
available.


We agree that there are "sociological" as well as "technical" 
reasons to chose.




We all needed to start at some point and win experiences. Having a
choice between uncountable solutions for a newbie definitively is
confusing, but the advantage is, once you have got experiences, you can
customize your OS too your needs.


I would say "choice is good".
"results" up to user ;/




This community can give you hints, if you would describe your needs.
E.g. is the target to get a server, something real-time related, IOW
audio or CNC, something to make arts, office work etc. pp.?!



In theory "I agree".
In practice grin...;/
I admit some of my questions may be malformed.
Whether intentionally or not, results cause me to *THINK* !
"Thinking" is good.



2 Cents, without following the whole thread.

We could confuse you completely by explaining, why we chose the set up
we prefer, this wont help you, but only confuse you.


Maybe. Maybe not. Can you say "HIGH speed paper tape" without 
choking?

Knew there had to be others.



You've got the choice between audio servers, startup systems and many
other things too. Libre has got a learning curve. Even a discussion
about the preferred editor could cause a flame war :D.


How about 8080 vs 6502 vs TMS??? ;/



Simply start, I guess the only useful hint were _all_ of us agree is,
that you should start with learning how to make backups of your install
and that you should make regular backups, so you are free to damage your
install and simply restore it to a working state.


You mean I should follow advice I've been giving out for DECADES?

You may have missed a comment I made in this or a related thread --
I purchased a used laptop *EXPLICITLY* for experimental installs.

Can you say 
6J6/12AX7/026/KSR35/S100/CPM-80/DEC/PET/CBM/20mA/RS232 
'compliant' 



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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[berenger . morel]

Le 18.09.2013 22:28, Richard Owlett a écrit :

berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

[*SNIP*]
I guess this is why Debian meet my needs: you can tinker things
easily, and so learn a lot even if you have poor starting knowledge.
But do not worry, it seem that on that list, everyone is still
learning things regularly.



That "tinkering" is generally recognized as valid in Debian community
is part of my justification for using it.

That does NOT mean that my sanity is never questioned :>

I continue to say "Thank you" to the community.


The best way to show that you liked what we did, is to do the same :) 
(and that's a nice way to learn stuff too, when more experienced people 
fix what you said)



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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[Richard Owlett]

berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

[*SNIP*]
I guess this is why Debian meet my needs: you can tinker things
easily, and so learn a lot even if you have poor starting knowledge.
But do not worry, it seem that on that list, everyone is still
learning things regularly.



That "tinkering" is generally recognized as valid in Debian 
community is part of my justification for using it.


That does NOT mean that my sanity is never questioned :>

I continue to say "Thank you" to the community.



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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[Ralf Mardorf]

I recommend to stay with Debian and to stay for Debian with the Linux
kernel and what ever boot loader you're using now. Test WMs and DEs, win
experiences and in the future you still can decide to use FreeBSD,
another Linux distro and/or other bootloaders.

I prefer Linux over FreeBSD, but have both installed, I prefer another
Linux distro, but Debian IMO is a good choice too and the bootloader is
relatively unimportant, as long as it makes the needed multi-boots
available.

We all needed to start at some point and win experiences. Having a
choice between uncountable solutions for a newbie definitively is
confusing, but the advantage is, once you have got experiences, you can
customize your OS too your needs.

This community can give you hints, if you would describe your needs.
E.g. is the target to get a server, something real-time related, IOW
audio or CNC, something to make arts, office work etc. pp.?!

2 Cents, without following the whole thread.

We could confuse you completely by explaining, why we chose the set up
we prefer, this wont help you, but only confuse you.

You've got the choice between audio servers, startup systems and many
other things too. Libre has got a learning curve. Even a discussion
about the preferred editor could cause a flame war :D.

Simply start, I guess the only useful hint were _all_ of us agree is,
that you should start with learning how to make backups of your install
and that you should make regular backups, so you are free to damage your
install and simply restore it to a working state.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[Charles Kroeger]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:20:02 +0200
Richard Owlett  wrote:
 
> What's the best? I still don't know.

Mr. Owlett,

I would just like to add to the usual suggestions since you're interested in
tinkering with Debian, a worthy hobby to be sure, that no one has suggested the 
now
forgotten UDE with the insightful motto: "get used to it."

http://udeproject.sourceforge.net/download.html

UDE may be mostly unknown but the latest stable version was updated on 
5-4-2013. 
so there's life there yet. You can tinker with some compiling of the source 
code if
you like. The project does not use any special GUI-Libraries such as Qt or GTK+ 
and
is based on the standard Xlibs this makes UDE faster.

I used UDE for a long time at lease while it was in the usual repositories; 
but, to
really feel the UDE experience, your system needs to be very uncluttered as it
were, and I've given this up for the comfortable but more complex world of 
XFCE4.
  
My reasons notwithstanding, I would just say that UDE was like Galadriel's 
mirror,
that wonderful glassy black surface reflecting back a pensive face (your face)
peering into the void. It was wonderfully existential at the time.

-- 
CK



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[berenger . morel]

Le 18.09.2013 13:31, Richard Owlett a écrit :

Richard Owlett wrote:

/Background
[snip]

/Questions
1. Given that I prefer LILO over GRUB and xfce over
Gnome/lxde/kde, what GUIs should I investigate further.
2. Given that internet is effectively non-existent and
internal/external disk space is effectively unlimited, how can I
make as many as possible of the DE &/or WM on the distribution
DVD simply available to experiment with?



Thank you to all who replied. I was able to load multiple DE's/WM's
and compare various permutations.

What's the best?


There is no best solution that we can give you. i3 is probably the best 
solution for me, but will be the poorest solution for some other people 
for which Gnome3 will be the best. Which in turn will not even meet the 
requirements of KDE's users.
Every user is different, so should be every Debian installation, at 
least for personal needs (and sometimes you have different needs 
depending on the hardware too... ). The only thing other people can do 
to help you is showing you other roads.



I still don't know. The exercise demonstrated that I
had misconceptions about Debian "philosophy" and underlying structure
[ e.g. led me to read more about package management].


This is Debian's philosophy as *I* see it: you will be able to choose 
all tools you want. Even the kernel, since you can use KFreeBSD ( ok it 
is recent, and maybe not fully tested, I do not know. I should try it 
someday. )
Debian is not a linux system, it is an operating system, which happen 
to be (often) relying on the linux kernel.
This imply, for example, that systemd will probably not become the only 
one init system. Same for gnome for DEs or for grub2 for bootloaders 
(but, yes, they can be the default tool in a period of time).


I guess this is why Debian meet my needs: you can tinker things easily, 
and so learn a lot even if you have poor starting knowledge.
But do not worry, it seem that on that list, everyone is still learning 
things regularly.



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Thank you - was [Re: Choosing among "Desktop Enviroments" and/or "Windows Managers"]

[Richard Owlett]

Richard Owlett wrote:

/Background
[snip]

/Questions
1. Given that I prefer LILO over GRUB and xfce over
Gnome/lxde/kde, what GUIs should I investigate further.
2. Given that internet is effectively non-existent and
internal/external disk space is effectively unlimited, how can I
make as many as possible of the DE &/or WM on the distribution
DVD simply available to experiment with?



Thank you to all who replied. I was able to load multiple 
DE's/WM's and compare various permutations.


What's the best? I still don't know. The exercise demonstrated 
that I had misconceptions about Debian "philosophy" and 
underlying structure [ e.g. led me to read more about package 
management].



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Re: please read i am not getting satisfaction from mytablet l got it in april i dont download anything on it and it is slow take long to load so what should i do please tell me thank you.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

phillip johnson  writes:

When your subject line is three lines long (on my display, anyway) maybe
you should move it to the body of your post.

When the body of your post is empty, you should *definitely* move
something in there.

Does your table run Debian Linux?  If not, why are you asking here?


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