Re: The List Standard
> > > Andrei Popescu wrote: > > >> Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed > > >> though). > > Jim Hyslop wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to > > gmane.linux.debian.user: > > > It's not true threading, though - it's lumping by subject line. At > > > least, that's what it did when I used it a few years ago - maybe the > > > latest version is better (but I'm not holding my breath...). > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:43:30AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > > Recent versions appear to sort "conversations" by references. which recent? On 30.04.07 20:28, Andrei Popescu wrote: > Oh yes, stupid MS renaming *again*. Re-inventing the wheel (yes, again). They started with Thread-Index: and Thread-Topic: headers, ignoring the well-known and long-time used References: (or at least In-Reply-To:). Hopefully they finally got the fact that sorting by References has advantages and started using them. They didn't change name of the feature... -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. Posli tento mail 100 svojim znamim - nech vidia aky si idiot Send this email to 100 your friends - let them see what an idiot you are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 07:43:30AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > Jim Hyslop wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to > gmane.linux.debian.user: > > > Andrei Popescu wrote: > >> Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed > >> though). > > > > It's not true threading, though - it's lumping by subject line. At > > least, that's what it did when I used it a few years ago - maybe the > > latest version is better (but I'm not holding my breath...). > > Recent versions appear to sort "conversations" by references. Oh yes, stupid MS renaming *again*. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: The List Standard
Jim Hyslop wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.user: > Andrei Popescu wrote: >> Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed >> though). > > It's not true threading, though - it's lumping by subject line. At > least, that's what it did when I used it a few years ago - maybe the > latest version is better (but I'm not holding my breath...). Recent versions appear to sort "conversations" by references. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
Andrei Popescu wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.user: > Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed > though). Outlook can thread. It calls threads "conversations," though. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:01:37 -0600 > Ted Hilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically > > added to the descending list. But have you not in your own email broken > > the chain of information because all I get when I read your email is to > > see your one extraction and I don't know On 09.04.07 21:10, David E. Fox wrote: > Ted - please wrap your lines at < 72 characters. It'll make your posts > easier to read and reply to. I wonder why does Thunderbird not to wrap lined, if is uses format=flowed messages (which it does). It's probably bug in thunderbird, RFC 2646 (section 4.1) tells that text should be wrapped... (i re-wrapped Ted's text myself) > Most (sane) mailers track by something called Reference Threading - so > that a subject with the added text [debian-user] will still be able to > be seen as part of the thread. If you are talking about merging messages with same subject (with additional Re:) to one thread, I have bad experience with it so I've turned this off. > > Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more > > confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in > > disagreement with one another. > > Shouldn't happen much. For threads where there is a lot of disagreement > (see the subjects "sponge burning" for instance) people haven't been > altering the original content. That would be disastrous, and really > open one up for a flame fest ;(. I agree with this. Stripping irelevant parts of original content is OK and case much less of confusion than reading long pages of irelevant text and searching for relevant parts there. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. On the other hand, you have different fingers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Ted Hilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Chris Lale wrote: > > David E. Fox wrote: > > > >> [...] > >> Normally, one should just reply-to list, and it's considered bad form > >> to mail the poster directly, unless asked to do so. > >> > > > > In Thunderbird (Icedove), either > > > > click on "Reply All", change "debian-user@lists.debian.org" from "Cc:" to > > "To:" > > and delete any other "Cc:" or "To:" lines; > > Took this advice. I will see how it turns out until I get that extension > you mentioned. > > Also, I'm getting some static about my email wrapping. Not from me, at least for this post. It looks like you've nailed it. > turned off. Some responders to my email seem to think I am advocating > Top loading which I am not. I simply remarked that many in business s/Top loading/top posting/ > insist on Top loading. I am doing some negotiations with a very large > company and they put their reply at the very top of the original It's a different venue. They have their conventions, we have ours. Both are reasonable, within each venue. I hate having to do it that way at work, but that's how most of those at work want to do it. Don't like it? Find another employer. :-P > Thanks, hope your recommendations work out. Here goes! This one looks fine to me. Welcome. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. Spammers! http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling/emails.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Andrew M.A. Cater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > [much generally good info snipped] > > that virtually everybody who posts to the list is also subscribed to the > list, so that you don't normally need to cc. them. Not true. Anyone or anything can post to the list. Agreed that additional Cc:'s (unless specifically requested, and some are inclined to refuse even them) are not generally welcome. > If you want to see a very good example of a mailing list with > high signal/noise ratio, technical excellence and lots of interesting > sidelights - the beowulf list (archives of www.beowulf.org) is always > worth a browse. The major players there are real experts - even the > off-topic stuff is interesting and thought provoking. Thx for the hint. Well worth a look. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. Spammers! http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling/emails.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrei Popescu wrote: > Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed > though). It's not true threading, though - it's lumping by subject line. At least, that's what it did when I used it a few years ago - maybe the latest version is better (but I'm not holding my breath...). - -- Jim Hyslop Dreampossible: Better software. Simply. http://www.dreampossible.ca Consulting * Mentoring * Training in C/C++ * OOD * SW Development & Practices * Version Management -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGG/uHLdDyDwyJw+MRAsvFAKC7pz46pUyf5Kz8VSLDOZOXASUkCgCg2hkl 3IWW2+xrKTprSTU5bKVmnRI= =92/C -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically added to the descending list. Most email clients have 3 options : Reply, Reply to All, Reply to List. You should use Reply to List when replying to list. A list of email clients which support "Reply to List" feature can be found at http://wiki.debian.org/ReplyToListEmailClients But have you not in your own email broken the chain of information because all I get when I read your email is to see your one extraction and I don't know from that who said what or even the initial subject content. I do not know what you mean by "extraction", but usually the previous emails, discussions are a click away in your email client. The thread structure lets you see "which email is reply to which email etc.,". It is customary to snip away irrelevant parts of the previous message and keep the parts that you are replying to. Not every one has threads. If you want to read this mailing list, any attempt to resist threads is futile. Try to get a mail client with threads. In a thread before yours this statement was made: ' AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the subject is changed. (It uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for example utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what you seem to be saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this matter. Most email clients can thread without any problem even if the subject is changed. Some email clients cannot preserve threads if the subject is changed. I was being considerate about the second category. Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that original information? Usually all that information (previous emails, previous threads etc.,) is one click away in a good email client. Note that I have 3 objections I want to discuss in more detail if that is okay with you. I am quite happy that you raised the issues. It helps me improve that document in the future. raju I think I now understand where you are coming from and am in agreement with you on these issues. I have tried to frame this response inside your frame, I'll see how it works out. Thanks Ted -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Chris Lale wrote: David E. Fox wrote: [...] Normally, one should just reply-to list, and it's considered bad form to mail the poster directly, unless asked to do so. In Thunderbird (Icedove), either click on "Reply All", change "debian-user@lists.debian.org" from "Cc:" to "To:" and delete any other "Cc:" or "To:" lines; Took this advice. I will see how it turns out until I get that extension you mentioned. Also, I'm getting some static about my email wrapping. I've got Thunderbird (Tools>Options>Wrapping) set to to 72 which is the default standard. But I'm willing to change it to something else. What would that be? Also, I am here using an embedded comment to your embedded comment as most list members seem to want to do it that way. I have been using threads for a while but when I first came to the list the threads were turned off. Some responders to my email seem to think I am advocating Top loading which I am not. I simply remarked that many in business insist on Top loading. I am doing some negotiations with a very large company and they put their reply at the very top of the original message. Also, when I worked for a large Telco they did the same thing. It was only after getting involved with Linux email issues that I even realized there were other and better ways of transmitting email messages. Thanks, hope your recommendations work out. Here goes! or install the "Reply To List" extension [1] and use Ctrl-I to initiate a reply. [...] [1] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/?ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension Hope that's useful. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
> First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically > added to the descending list. Most email clients have 3 options : Reply, Reply to All, Reply to List. You should use Reply to List when replying to list. A list of email clients which support "Reply to List" feature can be found at http://wiki.debian.org/ReplyToListEmailClients > But have you not in your own email broken > the chain of information because all I get when I read your email is to > see your one extraction and I don't know from that who said what or even > the initial subject content. I do not know what you mean by "extraction", but usually the previous emails, discussions are a click away in your email client. The thread structure lets you see "which email is reply to which email etc.,". It is customary to snip away irrelevant parts of the previous message and keep the parts that you are replying to. > Not every one has threads. If you want to read this mailing list, any attempt to resist threads is futile. Try to get a mail client with threads. > In a thread before > yours this statement was made: ' AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the > subject is changed. (It uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" > This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to > establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for example > utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what you seem to be > saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this matter. Most email clients can thread without any problem even if the subject is changed. Some email clients cannot preserve threads if the subject is changed. I was being considerate about the second category. > Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but > the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that > original information? > Usually all that information (previous emails, previous threads etc.,) is one click away in a good email client. > Note that I have 3 objections I want to discuss in more detail if that is > okay with you. I am quite happy that you raised the issues. It helps me improve that document in the future. raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
Ted Hilts wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.user: > Kamaraju S Kusumanchi > > http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html > > This helps a lot but I have a few issues with a couple of the statements. > > First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically > added to the descending list. I'm not sure what exactly that means, it doesn't make sense. > But have you not in your own email broken > the chain of information because all I get when I read your email is to > see your one extraction and I don't know from that who said what or even > the initial subject content. Not every one has threads. In a thread before > yours this statement was made: ' AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the > subject is changed. (It uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" If your mailer breaks threads, you shouldn't use it at all. Period. There's no excuse for any mailer or newsgroup reader to not support threads at this point. Even Outlook gets this right barring it's user torquing it deliberately. > This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to > establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for example > utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what you seem to be > saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this matter. Reply To is not set. You should be using Reply to List instead of Reply or Reply to All when replying. > Also my original subject had [debian-user] as the prefix yet Thunderbird > accepted Re: The list Standard. Subject prefixes aren't done on this list. > Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but > the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that > original information? You can always pull it from the original message or the archives. > Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more > confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in disagreement > with one another. Only if you failed English. Top posting is not the norm except among those who learned to read from Microsoft Outlook. > Anyway, I have in this email not used the REPLY TO key and addressed my > response to you using the original subject in order to see what actually > happens. Looks like you started a new thread. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
Ted Hilts wrote in Article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted to gmane.linux.debian.user: > Thunderbird runs with threads beginning with the first issue ins the > subject line and then all successive emails related are tied together in > a descending fashion. I take this to mean that one can first see the > first issue and follow downwards at other inputs as long as the subject > remains the same. I'm pretty sure Thunderbird supports threading. Threading and subject headers are not related to each other. > However, most businesses do just the opposite either leaving off the > original or piling their reply in an ascending fashion. > This creates a problem for me because my mail client wants me to put the > next message at the bottom and positions the cursor to this will > happen. Also, there are no upward threading that I know of. But a lot > of people expect a reply at the top. Not in the real world, no. http://wiki.ursine.ca/Best_Online_Quoting_Practices > What I have begun to do is tell them to go to the bottom to get at my > reply so they can first see what they have previously said which they > often forget or get it wrong. Then the quoting has been ineffectively framed or the person responding missed the key point. > However, I also notice that many people in the list snip out stuff so that > when the next person responds it is possible they do not have the same > context and the same information and so go off in a different direction. This is a Good Thing(tm). Removing parts that you think are irrelevant make it obvious whether or not you're missing the point based on what you're responding to. > Have I got it all wrong or are there conventions we should all be > observing. I usually respond to a part of the original not by embedding > remarks into the original email (as some do) but by copying the part > down to the bottom quoted and followed by my email suggestion that way > the original and all following emails that preceded mine are preserved. Bottom posting considered harmful, since it's often just as context destroying and bandwidth intensive as top posting for pretty much the same reasons. If you're not going to bother framing your response, why bother quoting at all? -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
David E. Fox wrote: > [...] > Normally, one should just reply-to list, and it's considered bad form > to mail the poster directly, unless asked to do so. In Thunderbird (Icedove), either click on "Reply All", change "debian-user@lists.debian.org" from "Cc:" to "To:" and delete any other "Cc:" or "To:" lines; or install the "Reply To List" extension [1] and use Ctrl-I to initiate a reply. > > [...] > [1] http://open.nit.ca/wiki/?ReplyToListThunderbirdExtension Hope that's useful. -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Ted Hilts wrote: > [...] > > Not every one has threads. You say that you are using Thunderbird (Icedove). You can use the "View" menu to view your mail in threaded format: View -> Sort by -> Threaded > > [...] > -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 09:10:42PM -0700, David E. Fox wrote: > On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:01:37 -0600 > Ted Hilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically added > > to the descending list. But have you not in your own email broken the chain > > of information because all I get when I read your email is to see your one > > extraction and I don't know > > Ted - please wrap your lines at < 72 characters. It'll make your posts > easier to read and reply to. > > Most (sane) mailers track by something called Reference Threading - so > that a subject with the added text [debian-user] will still be able to > be seen as part of the thread. > > Normally, one should just reply-to list, and it's considered bad form > to mail the poster directly, unless asked to do so. > > > Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but > > the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that > > original information? > > By using the reference threads, or maybe archives if the original post > is long gone. That's usually not going to be the case, unless the old > post is (ahem) old. > > All the replies should be visible as one thread that you and others can > navigate through in order to form the big picture. > > > > > Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more > > confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in disagreement > > with one another. > > Shouldn't happen much. For threads where there is a lot of disagreement > (see the subjects "sponge burning" for instance) people haven't been > altering the original content. That would be disastrous, and really > open one up for a flame fest ;(. > Ted, I've deliberately kept the above in one piece, so you can see how it's supposed to come out. The convention is to wrap at 70-72 characters because screens often have an 80 character limit and your mailer may use >> or some such to indicate replies and flow of the conversation. If you want to reply to one point, then it's also quite often conventional to do something like Now about $bar - what do you think. or even - 8X -- [which looks like scissors on a dotted line] Now about $bar - what do you think? It's always worth reading a thread and thinking over a reply carefully: the convention is to maintain the style such that you can read consecutively. Once you're part way through a thread, this should be automatically obvious. So, something like the following: Ted said in reply to Andy > $Foo rocks - Linux does infinite loops in five seconds now. >> Solaris has really good performance now that you can use feature $bar No, neither of you has noticed that AIX trumps them all with feature $baz. We're using it here ... and to try to keep one line at the end to indicate that >Ted >> Andy Foobar This list is fairly strict about netiquette: the one canonical rule is that virtually everybody who posts to the list is also subscribed to the list, so that you don't normally need to cc. them. If you want to see a very good example of a mailing list with high signal/noise ratio,technical excellence and lots of interesting sidelights - the beowulf list (archives of www.beowulf.org) is always worth a browse. The major players there are real experts - even the off-topic stuff is interesting and thought provoking. Andy > > > Thanks -- Ted > > David E. Fox -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not every one has threads. In a thread before yours this > > statement was made: > > > > AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the subject is changed. (It > > uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" > > > This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to > > establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for > > example utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what > > you seem to be saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this > > matter. > > > > I don't understand "not everyone has threads". Its a standard part of > email. Therefore any decent mail user agent should show threads. Try > mutt. Even Outlook can thread (not sure what happens if subject gets changed though). Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:01:37 -0600 Ted Hilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically added > to the descending list. But have you not in your own email broken the chain > of information because all I get when I read your email is to see your one > extraction and I don't know Ted - please wrap your lines at < 72 characters. It'll make your posts easier to read and reply to. Most (sane) mailers track by something called Reference Threading - so that a subject with the added text [debian-user] will still be able to be seen as part of the thread. Normally, one should just reply-to list, and it's considered bad form to mail the poster directly, unless asked to do so. > Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but > the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that > original information? By using the reference threads, or maybe archives if the original post is long gone. That's usually not going to be the case, unless the old post is (ahem) old. All the replies should be visible as one thread that you and others can navigate through in order to form the big picture. > > Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more > confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in disagreement > with one another. Shouldn't happen much. For threads where there is a lot of disagreement (see the subjects "sponge burning" for instance) people haven't been altering the original content. That would be disastrous, and really open one up for a flame fest ;(. > Thanks -- Ted -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 08:01:37PM -0600, Ted Hilts wrote: > http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html > > This helps a lot but I have a few issues with a couple of the statements. > > First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but > simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically added > to the descending list. But have you not in your own email broken the chain > of information because all I get when I read your email is to see your one > extraction and I don't know from that who said what or even the initial > subject content. It up to each responder to snip bits that aren't relavent to their reply. > Not every one has threads. In a thread before yours this > statement was made: > > AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the subject is changed. (It uses > the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" > This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to > establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for example > utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what you seem to be > saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this matter. > I don't understand "not everyone has threads". Its a standard part of email. Therefore any decent mail user agent should show threads. Try mutt. > Also my original subject had [debian-user] as the prefix yet Thunderbird > accepted Re: The list Standard. > > Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but > the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that > original information? If need be, with the archives. If you're really wanting to follow a thread, don't delete it out of your own mailbox or save it to its own mailbox. > Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more > confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in disagreement > with one another. Nevertheless, it is how it is done on this list. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[debian-user] The List Standard
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html This helps a lot but I have a few issues with a couple of the statements. First: as I understand your guideline I am not to use the reply key but simply address my reply back to the list and it will be automatically added to the descending list. But have you not in your own email broken the chain of information because all I get when I read your email is to see your one extraction and I don't know from that who said what or even the initial subject content. Not every one has threads. In a thread before yours this statement was made: ' AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the subject is changed. (It uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header)" This person seems to imply that normally the subject is the key to establishing the descending threads. And if Thunderbird for example utilizes the REPLY TO header then that is at odds with what you seem to be saying in this guideline. So I am confused on this matter. Also my original subject had [debian-user] as the prefix yet Thunderbird accepted Re: The list Standard. Second: Also, when one person removes content they think is irrelevant but the original author might think otherwise then how does one find that original information? Third: Altering the original content or injecting statements adds more confusion than it saves especially if a lot of people are in disagreement with one another. Anyway, I have in this email not used the REPLY TO key and addressed my response to you using the original subject in order to see what actually happens. Note that I have 3 objections I want to discuss in more detail if that is okay with you. Thanks -- Ted -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The List Standard
> I am beginning to wonder > what the list standard is on this matter -- or should be. > Does this help? http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/du-guidelines.html raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [debian-user] The List Standard
Ted Hilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My browser for mail is Thunderbird and Seamonkey I use for browsing. > > Thunderbird runs with threads beginning with the first issue ins the > subject line and then all successive emails related are tied together > in a descending fashion. I take this to mean that one can first see > the first issue and follow downwards at other inputs as long as the > subject remains the same. However, most businesses do just the AFAIK Thunderbird can thread even if the subject is changed. (It uses the 'In-Reply-To:' header) > opposite either leaving off the original or piling their reply in an > ascending fashion. This creates a problem for me because my mail Bleah! > client wants me to put the next message at the bottom and positions > the cursor to this will happen. Also, there are no upward threading > that I know of. But a lot of people expect a reply at the top. What You could try to use threading and sorting by descending date. > I have begun to do is tell them to go to the bottom to get at my > reply so they can first see what they have previously said which they > often forget or get it wrong. However, I also notice that many people > in the list snip out stuff so that when the next person responds it > is possible they do not have the same context and the same > information and so go off in a different direction. The netiquette is to snip *irrelevant* stuff. But this is pretty subjective. > Have I got it all wrong or are there conventions we should all be > observing. I usually respond to a part of the original not by > embedding remarks into the original email (as some do) but by copying > the part down to the bottom quoted and followed by my email > suggestion that way the original and all following emails that > preceded mine are preserved. I have observed conflicts over this I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, but maybe you should read this: http://learn.to/quote (go to "This Text in English) and more general http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[debian-user] The List Standard
My browser for mail is Thunderbird and Seamonkey I use for browsing. Thunderbird runs with threads beginning with the first issue ins the subject line and then all successive emails related are tied together in a descending fashion. I take this to mean that one can first see the first issue and follow downwards at other inputs as long as the subject remains the same. However, most businesses do just the opposite either leaving off the original or piling their reply in an ascending fashion. This creates a problem for me because my mail client wants me to put the next message at the bottom and positions the cursor to this will happen. Also, there are no upward threading that I know of. But a lot of people expect a reply at the top. What I have begun to do is tell them to go to the bottom to get at my reply so they can first see what they have previously said which they often forget or get it wrong. However, I also notice that many people in the list snip out stuff so that when the next person responds it is possible they do not have the same context and the same information and so go off in a different direction. Have I got it all wrong or are there conventions we should all be observing. I usually respond to a part of the original not by embedding remarks into the original email (as some do) but by copying the part down to the bottom quoted and followed by my email suggestion that way the original and all following emails that preceded mine are preserved. I have observed conflicts over this issue and I am beginning to wonder what the list standard is on this matter -- or should be. Thanks, Ted -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
