Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Linux-Fan]

Darac Marjal writes:



On 10/06/2023 16:08, S M wrote:

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 02:12:14PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:


Is command-line editing part of POSIX, then? Are you suggesting that dash is
missing some bit of POSIX compliance? That's possible.
Command-line editing in vi-mode is defined by POSIX, but it's not mandatory  
as

far as I know.

OK, this looks like Bug #561663. If I read that bug correctly, the intention  
IS that dash should support command-line editing (in your case, you'd invoke  
it with -V for vi-style editing. The maintainer claimed the block was  
closed, but then they re-opened it two days later.


Interesting. I am also one of the niche users interested in running dash as  
a primary shell with vi-style line editing.


Last time I tried it (must be several years ago already), the vi-style  
editing did indeed work when enabled with `set -o vi`. On my current Debian  
oldstable (bullseye) workstation it does not work anymore.


Back when the vi-style editing worked it was _almost_ ready for "productive"  
use. Unfortunately, POSIX shells do not support bash's `\[` and `\]` in  
prompts that can be used to hide color code sequences from being counted  
towards the prompt length. This caused there to be a discrepancy between the  
observed and computed lengths leading to erratic line editing whenever the  
line exteeded the width of the window (happens often for me).


Hence I concluded that while it sounds nice to switch to `sh` as the primary  
shell in theory, this does not quite work in practice (for me anyways).


YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö


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Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Darac Marjal]

On 10/06/2023 16:08, S M wrote:

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 02:12:14PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:


Is command-line editing part of POSIX, then? Are you suggesting that dash is
missing some bit of POSIX compliance? That's possible.

Command-line editing in vi-mode is defined by POSIX, but it's not mandatory as
far as I know.

OK, this looks like Bug #561663. If I read that bug correctly, the 
intention IS that dash should support command-line editing (in your 
case, you'd invoke it with -V for vi-style editing. The maintainer 
claimed the block was closed, but then they re-opened it two days later.




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Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 09:21:19PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> Unfortunately neither the Debian changelog of dash nor the commit
> message for this change[2] give an explanation.  Removing the debconf
> handling certainly simplifies the package, and there are not too many
> scripts around that start with "#!/bin/sh" and fail to work with dash -
> these are the reasons I can think of.

I have serious doubts about that.  I'm sure that *in Debian*, virtually
all scripts have been fixed to use the correct syntax for their shebang.
But outside of Debian?  The world's a mess.  There's no way to even know
how many broken scripts are out there.

An admin's choice to use /bin/sh -> bash on their system is usually done
to work around broken third-party scripts.  (This is what's so confusing
about S M's part of the thread -- their motivation is entirely different.)

At the bare minimum, this change needs to be documented in the official
release notes and the dash NEWS file, which is currently giving incorrect
information to users.

It would also be *nice* to have an explanation, and perhaps some risk
analysis about what may happen if an admin decides to change the symlink
despite the unsupported nature of that change.

I suspect we'll only get the latter from users who are brave enough to
try it, and dedicated enough to document their discoveries.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Sven Joachim]

On 2023-06-09 12:06 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2023-06-09 at 12:00, Charles Curley wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 13:38:25 +
>> S M  wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that
>>> dpkg-reconfigure no longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from
>>> dash to bash.
>>
>> You can still change it manually (rm ; ln -s).
>
> Or just 'ln -sf', to do it in something closer to an atomic fashion.
>
> Except that, since (at least from what I can see on a quick check) the
> /bin/sh symlink appears to be shipped explicitly in the dash package,
> next time that package gets upgraded the symlink will probably be
> overwritten with one pointing back to dash again.
>
> If the system is smart enough to not replace a sysadmin-edited symlink
> during package upgrade, then that wouldn't happen - but I'd honestly
> expect that it would, since otherwise if a symlink got messed up and
> broke things, reinstalling the package it came from wouldn't be
> guaranteed to fix those things.

That is true.  However, you can avoid that by diverting the /bin/sh
symlink which tells dpkg to unpack it under a different name.  To do so,
you have to first remove the diversion that dash itself sets up.  The
following six commands change the /bin/sh symlink permanently to bash
and also take care of the manpage:

# dpkg-divert --remove --no-rename /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz
# dpkg-divert --remove --no-rename /bin/sh
# ln -sf bash.1.gz /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz
# ln -sf bash /bin/sh
# dpkg-divert --add --local --no-rename /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz
# dpkg-divert --add --local --no-rename /bin/sh

The version of dash in experimental no longer diverts the /bin/sh
symlink itself, so in the future the first two steps will not be
necessary.  The dash maintainer wanted to include this change in
bookworm, but was turned down by the release team[1].

> Of course, there's still the question of the *reason* why this change
> was made and why using anything but dash for /bin/sh is now considered
> no longer supported. I don't have any explanation for that, and until
> the maintainers actually give one, neither do the rest of us - but in
> the absence of one, it's hard to be sure that pointing the symlink to
> /bin/bash won't break something.

Unfortunately neither the Debian changelog of dash nor the commit
message for this change[2] give an explanation.  Removing the debconf
handling certainly simplifies the package, and there are not too many
scripts around that start with "#!/bin/sh" and fail to work with dash -
these are the reasons I can think of.

There is also an open bug against the release notes[3] filed by the dash
maintainer.

Cheers,
   Sven

1. https://bugs.debian.org/1035745
2. 
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/dash/-/commit/c322a1c9fc6be11d7eb4439407c0a398aba8bbb7
3. https://bugs.debian.org/1036907

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[S M]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 09:49:14AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> There's no point debating any further.  S M has a unique desire, which
> is not shared by any other person I've ever heard of, and they're going
> to do what they want.

I didn't mean this to be a discussion about my particular wants or needs (As I
said, I have that sorted out already). I was just raising a question about the
reasons for this change as it removes a theoretically harmless option that was
there before.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[gene heskett]

On 6/9/23 20:33, S M wrote:

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 08:00:51PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 05:45:04PM -0500, S M wrote:

Regarding a workaround, I ended up creating a symlink /usr/local/bin/sh
pointing to bash and chsh to that.


Why?  Why not simply chsh to /bin/bash if that's what you want as your
interactive shell?

Are you somehow relying on bash's disabling of certain features when
invoked as "sh", in interactive mode?  I don't understand that at all.



Yes. POSIX-compliance is a feature to me. I'd actually be fine with
using dash itself but the lack of command line editing and filename
completion is a deal-breaker to me.

.

+10 (or more)

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[S M]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 02:12:14PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

> Is command-line editing part of POSIX, then? Are you suggesting that dash is
> missing some bit of POSIX compliance? That's possible.

Command-line editing in vi-mode is defined by POSIX, but it's not mandatory as
far as I know.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 02:12:14PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On 10/06/2023 01:32, S M wrote:
> > Yes. POSIX-compliance is a feature to me. I'd actually be fine with
> > using dash itself but the lack of command line editing and filename
> > completion is a deal-breaker to me.

> Is command-line editing part of POSIX, then? Are you suggesting that dash is
> missing some bit of POSIX compliance? That's possible.

There's no point debating any further.  S M has a unique desire, which
is not shared by any other person I've ever heard of, and they're going
to do what they want.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Darac Marjal]

On 10/06/2023 01:32, S M wrote:

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 08:00:51PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 05:45:04PM -0500, S M wrote:

Regarding a workaround, I ended up creating a symlink /usr/local/bin/sh
pointing to bash and chsh to that.

Why?  Why not simply chsh to /bin/bash if that's what you want as your
interactive shell?

Are you somehow relying on bash's disabling of certain features when
invoked as "sh", in interactive mode?  I don't understand that at all.


Yes. POSIX-compliance is a feature to me. I'd actually be fine with
using dash itself but the lack of command line editing and filename
completion is a deal-breaker to me.
Is command-line editing part of POSIX, then? Are you suggesting that 
dash is missing some bit of POSIX compliance? That's possible.


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Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[S M]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 08:00:51PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 05:45:04PM -0500, S M wrote:
> > Regarding a workaround, I ended up creating a symlink /usr/local/bin/sh
> > pointing to bash and chsh to that.
> 
> Why?  Why not simply chsh to /bin/bash if that's what you want as your
> interactive shell?
> 
> Are you somehow relying on bash's disabling of certain features when
> invoked as "sh", in interactive mode?  I don't understand that at all.
> 

Yes. POSIX-compliance is a feature to me. I'd actually be fine with
using dash itself but the lack of command line editing and filename
completion is a deal-breaker to me.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 05:45:04PM -0500, S M wrote:
> Regarding a workaround, I ended up creating a symlink /usr/local/bin/sh
> pointing to bash and chsh to that.

Why?  Why not simply chsh to /bin/bash if that's what you want as your
interactive shell?

Are you somehow relying on bash's disabling of certain features when
invoked as "sh", in interactive mode?  I don't understand that at all.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[S M]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 04:07:03PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> Nothing you wrote here is incorrect, but none of it explains the policy
> change that has occurred.  I won't even say it's a bad policy change.
> It makes at least a little bit of sense...

Yeah, I'd also like to know what was the reason to change this.
Regarding a workaround, I ended up creating a symlink /usr/local/bin/sh
pointing to bash and chsh to that.

But, the way I see it, any portable POSIX-compliant script should be
able to run in both dash and bash. If a script runs with dash but not
bash, it means one of three things:

   1 The script is not portable to begin with. (the script has a bug or
   the wrong shebang)

   2 The script is interpreted incorrectly by bash but not dash. (bash
   has a bug)

   3 The script is portable but it's interpreted incorrectly by dash,
   and this wrong behavior is what the scriptwriter wants. (dash has a
   bug)

So it seems to me that this change will only end up sweeping bugs under
the rug. Which I guess is not that bad of a thing as long as the system
works, but I digress. In any case, all three can be fixed by changing
the shebang to #!/bin/dash without much additional work. So I'm just
curious about what was the reason behind taking away this choice from
the user.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[songbird]

Greg Wooledge wrote:
...
> Huh.  Well, that's rather important, isn't it?
>
> The package maintainers seem to have forgotten to TELL us this, at least
> in the NEWS.Debian.gz file, which still says only:
>
> unicorn:/usr/share/doc/dash$ zless NEWS.Debian.gz 
> dash (0.5.5.1-2.1) unstable; urgency=low
>
>   * The default system shell (/bin/sh) has been changed to dash for
> new installations.  When upgrading existing installations, the
> system shell will not be changed automatically.
>   * One can see what the current default system shell on this machine
> is by running 'readlink /bin/sh'.
>   * Change it by running 'dpkg-reconfigure dash'. 
>
>  -- Luk Claes   Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:20 +0200

  did you notice the date?  that's some time ago...  which
might be why it wasn't thought of as a change for now.

  i vaguely recall this.


> I've updated the wiki, so at least we have that much warning for users,
> not that many people will read it.


  songbird

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 08:20:52PM +0200, didier gaumet wrote:
> Le 09/06/2023 à 15:38, S M a écrit :
> > I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that dpkg-reconfigure 
> > no longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from dash to bash. This is 
> > apparently intentional as per the following:

> This is explained in the wiki:
> - dash is the Debian default non-interactive shell for speed and compliance
> to standard (setup of /bin/sh)
> - bash is the Debian default interactive shell for ease of use (setup of
> /etc/adduser.conf)

Nothing you wrote here is incorrect, but none of it explains the policy
change that has occurred.  I won't even say it's a bad policy change.
It makes at least a little bit of sense...

... but it should not have come as a *surprise* 2 days before the release.

... and it should not be missing from the dash package's NEWS file.

> https://wiki.debian.org/Shell

Another wiki page that I'll need to look at and possibly edit.  Thanks.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[didier gaumet]

Le 09/06/2023 à 15:38, S M a écrit :

Good day.

I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that dpkg-reconfigure no 
longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from dash to bash. This is 
apparently intentional as per the following:

https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/dash/0.5.11+git20210903+057cd650a4ed-4

I couldn't find any additional context or rationale. I would like to know if 
this is going to be a permanent change. Debian currently disables command line 
editing in dash builds, so that makes it unusable as an interactive shell.

Thank you very much for everything.



Hello,

This is explained in the wiki:
- dash is the Debian default non-interactive shell for speed and 
compliance to standard (setup of /bin/sh)
- bash is the Debian default interactive shell for ease of use (setup of 
/etc/adduser.conf)


https://wiki.debian.org/Shell

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[The Wanderer]

On 2023-06-09 at 12:00, Charles Curley wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 13:38:25 +
> S M  wrote:
> 
>> I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that
>> dpkg-reconfigure no longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from
>> dash to bash.
> 
> You can still change it manually (rm ; ln -s).

Or just 'ln -sf', to do it in something closer to an atomic fashion.

Except that, since (at least from what I can see on a quick check) the
/bin/sh symlink appears to be shipped explicitly in the dash package,
next time that package gets upgraded the symlink will probably be
overwritten with one pointing back to dash again.

If the system is smart enough to not replace a sysadmin-edited symlink
during package upgrade, then that wouldn't happen - but I'd honestly
expect that it would, since otherwise if a symlink got messed up and
broke things, reinstalling the package it came from wouldn't be
guaranteed to fix those things.

Of course, there's still the question of the *reason* why this change
was made and why using anything but dash for /bin/sh is now considered
no longer supported. I don't have any explanation for that, and until
the maintainers actually give one, neither do the rest of us - but in
the absence of one, it's hard to be sure that pointing the symlink to
/bin/bash won't break something.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 13:38:25 +
S M  wrote:

> I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that
> dpkg-reconfigure no longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from
> dash to bash.

You can still change it manually (rm ; ln -s).

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 09, 2023 at 07:20:29AM -0700, Kushal Kumaran wrote:
> >From the comments on
> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/dash/-/commit/c322a1c9fc6be11d7eb4439407c0a398aba8bbb7,
> this is intentional and permanent.  /bin/sh pointing to bash is no
> longer supported.

Huh.  Well, that's rather important, isn't it?

The package maintainers seem to have forgotten to TELL us this, at least
in the NEWS.Debian.gz file, which still says only:

unicorn:/usr/share/doc/dash$ zless NEWS.Debian.gz 
dash (0.5.5.1-2.1) unstable; urgency=low

  * The default system shell (/bin/sh) has been changed to dash for
new installations.  When upgrading existing installations, the
system shell will not be changed automatically.
  * One can see what the current default system shell on this machine
is by running 'readlink /bin/sh'.
  * Change it by running 'dpkg-reconfigure dash'. 

 -- Luk Claes   Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:20 +0200


I've updated the wiki, so at least we have that much warning for users,
not that many people will read it.

Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[Kushal Kumaran]

On Fri, Jun 09 2023 at 01:38:25 PM, S M  wrote:
> Good day.
>
> I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that
> dpkg-reconfigure no longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from
> dash to bash. This is apparently intentional as per the following:
>
> https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/dash/0.5.11+git20210903+057cd650a4ed-4
>
> I couldn't find any additional context or rationale. I would like to
> know if this is going to be a permanent change. Debian currently
> disables command line editing in dash builds, so that makes it
> unusable as an interactive shell.
>
> Thank you very much for everything.

>From the comments on
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/dash/-/commit/c322a1c9fc6be11d7eb4439407c0a398aba8bbb7,
this is intentional and permanent.  /bin/sh pointing to bash is no
longer supported.  Change your login shell to bash, if that's what you
want, using chsh.

-- 
regards,
kushal

"dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works

[S M]

Good day.

I noticed on a newly installed system with Debian 12 that dpkg-reconfigure no 
longer allows to switch the /bin/sh symlink from dash to bash. This is 
apparently intentional as per the following:

https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/dash/0.5.11+git20210903+057cd650a4ed-4

I couldn't find any additional context or rationale. I would like to know if 
this is going to be a permanent change. Debian currently disables command line 
editing in dash builds, so that makes it unusable as an interactive shell.

Thank you very much for everything.

Le choix PC générique 105 touches absent de dpkg-reconfigure

[Olivier]

Bonjour,

J'ai installé par PXE/Preseed un serveur.

Quand je lance dpkg-reconfiure, j'ai à l'écran une longue liste de
modèle de clavier démarrant par A4Teck KB21.
Les entées PC génériques sont absentes de cette liste y compris
l'entrée  PC générique 105 touches.

Quel paquet ou manip ajoute ce types d'entrées ?

Slts

Re: dpkg-reconfigure n'écoute pas debconf-set-selections (pour tzdata)

[Charles Plessy]

Le Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 05:00:00PM +0200, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :
> 
> Plus généralement, où peut-on trouver l'info des choix que ferait un
>   dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive xxx
> 
> Faut aller fouiner dans /var/lib/dpkg/info/xxx.config ?
> 
> Pour /var/lib/dpkg/info/tzdata.config on comprend comment c'est sensé
> fonctionner (même sans connaître le shell car les commentaires sont clairs),
> mais je sais pas si y'a un moyen plus rapide et générique pour avoir
> l'info.

Je ne connais pas de meilleure méthode...

Bonne journée,

-- 
Charles

Re: dpkg-reconfigure n'écoute pas debconf-set-selections (pour tzdata)

[Daniel Caillibaud]

Le 03/12/20 à  7h46, Charles Plessy  a écrit :
> je pense que ce n'est pas un bug, parce que « debconf n'est pas conçu
> pour être un système d'enregistrement et ne peut pas être utilisé comme
> tel », dixit man debconf-devel(7).
> https://manpages.debian.org/debconf-devel
> 
> Les paquets ne vont chercher des informations dans debconf que lorsque
> /etc n'en a pas encore.

Merci, je comprends mieux… debconf doit être vu les paramètres
d'installation par défaut lorsque rien n'est précisé dans /etc.

Paramètres qu'on peut préciser à l'installation ou plus tard (avec
debconf-set-selections), mais qui ne doivent surtout pas prendre le pas sur
une modification qu'aurait fait l'admin.

Et effectivement ça semble mieux comme ça.

On m'a soufflé un exemple où ce serait fâcheux s'il en était autrement :
- choix d'une zone à l'install (mettons Seoul parce que c'est un pc
  préinstallé en corée, ou une install faite avec en preseed coréen)
- l'admin fixe sa zone Europe/Paris via /etc/localtime et /etc/timezone
- lors de l'upgrade suivant du paquet tzdata, si debconf était la source
  d'autorité on se retrouverait avec Asie/Seoul

Plus généralement, où peut-on trouver l'info des choix que ferait un
  dpkg-reconfigure -f noninteractive xxx

Faut aller fouiner dans /var/lib/dpkg/info/xxx.config ?

Pour /var/lib/dpkg/info/tzdata.config on comprend comment c'est sensé
fonctionner (même sans connaître le shell car les commentaires sont clairs),
mais je sais pas si y'a un moyen plus rapide et générique pour avoir
l'info.

-- 
Daniel

Une maxime de charcutier chinois : la rondelle ne fait pas le printemps.
Coluche

Re: dpkg-reconfigure n'écoute pas debconf-set-selections (pour tzdata)

[Charles Plessy]

Le Wed, Dec 02, 2020 at 06:19:11PM +0100, Daniel Caillibaud a écrit :
> 
> Visiblement, si /etc/localtime pointe sur une timezone le 
>   dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -f noninteractive
> utilise cette timezone et ignore debconf.
> 
> C'est pas un bug ?

Bonjour Daniel,

je pense que ce n'est pas un bug, parce que « debconf n'est pas conçu
pour être un système d'enregistrement et ne peut pas être utilisé comme
tel », dixit man debconf-devel(7).  https://manpages.debian.org/debconf-devel

Les paquets ne vont chercher des informations dans debconf que lorsque
/etc n'en a pas encore.

> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=813226#20

Bon, effectivement, corriger un bug, c'est parfois assez brutal pour
ceux qui avaient appris empiriquement que c'était la manière normale
de fonctionner :(

Bonne journée,

Charles

-- 
Charles Plessy Nagahama, Yomitan, Okinawa, Japan

Re: dpkg-reconfigure n'écoute pas debconf-set-selections (pour tzdata)

[Daniel Caillibaud]

Le 30/11/20 à 16h56, Daniel Caillibaud  a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> 
> J'essaie d'imposer une timezone en mode non interactif avec
> debconf-set-selections et y'a un truc qui m'échappe…
> 
> # je veux avoir Europe/Paris sans avoir à répondre à une question, je me
> mets d'abord sur une autre timezone # par ex en répondant Europe/Riga
> dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
> Current default time zone: 'Europe/Riga'
> 
> # on vérifie debconf
> debconf-show tzdata|grep ^*
> * tzdata/Zones/Europe: Riga
> * tzdata/Areas: Europe
> * tzdata/Zones/Etc: UTC
> 
> # je select Europe/Paris
> printf 'tzdata tzdata/Areas select Europe\ntzdata tzdata/Zones/Europe
> select Paris\n'|debconf-set-selections
> 
> # je vérifie qu'il a compris ce que je voulais
> debconf-show tzdata|grep ^*
> * tzdata/Areas: Europe
> * tzdata/Zones/Etc: UTC
> * tzdata/Zones/Europe: Paris
> 
> # ok, j'applique la sélection
> dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -fnoninteractive
> 
> Current default time zone: 'Europe/Riga'
> 
> WTF 

Visiblement, si /etc/localtime pointe sur une timezone le 
  dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -f noninteractive
utilise cette timezone et ignore debconf.

C'est pas un bug ?

J'hésite à ouvrir un bug, pour tzdata ou debconf ?
(à priori plutôt tzdata vu les bugs déjà ouverts, notamment [1])

En tout cas, visiblement il faut, au choix

1) ne pas utiliser debconf et manuellement changer le symlink avant
reconfigure
  ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Paris /etc/localtime
  dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -f noninteractive

2) virer /etc/localtime (et /etc/timezone, plus sûr car les anciennes
versions de tzdata utilisaient ce fichier, ça semble plus le cas mais
y'a encore un bug ouvert là-dessus[1])
  rm -f /etc/localtime /etc/timezone 
  printf 'tzdata tzdata/Areas select Europe\ntzdata tzdata/Zones/Europe select 
Paris\n'|debconf-set-selections 1132
  dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -fnoninteractive

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=813226#20
et aussi https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=848143

-- 
Daniel

J'ai souvent regretté mes discours, jamais mes silences.
Publilius Syrus

dpkg-reconfigure n'écoute pas debconf-set-selections (pour tzdata)

[Daniel Caillibaud]

Bonjour,

J'essaie d'imposer une timezone en mode non interactif avec
debconf-set-selections et y'a un truc qui m'échappe…

# je veux avoir Europe/Paris sans avoir à répondre à une question, je me mets 
d'abord sur une autre timezone
# par ex en répondant Europe/Riga
dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
Current default time zone: 'Europe/Riga'

# on vérifie debconf
debconf-show tzdata|grep ^*
* tzdata/Zones/Europe: Riga
* tzdata/Areas: Europe
* tzdata/Zones/Etc: UTC

# je select Europe/Paris
printf 'tzdata tzdata/Areas select Europe\ntzdata tzdata/Zones/Europe select 
Paris\n'|debconf-set-selections

# je vérifie qu'il a compris ce que je voulais
debconf-show tzdata|grep ^*
* tzdata/Areas: Europe
* tzdata/Zones/Etc: UTC
* tzdata/Zones/Europe: Paris

# ok, j'applique la sélection
dpkg-reconfigure tzdata -fnoninteractive

Current default time zone: 'Europe/Riga'

WTF 

-- 
Daniel

Le génie consiste à voir ce que tout le monde a vu
et à penser ce que personne n'a pensé.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting David Wright (2019-07-16 19:41:17)
> On Sat 11 May 2019 at 01:22:09 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > Den 2019-05-10 kl. 18:21, skrev David Wright:
> > > > For example, I append lines to /etc/console-setup/remap.inc to 
> > > > do things like enhancing the navigation keys, and preventing 
> > > > Alt-space from producing NO-BREAK SPACE (because it's too easy 
> > > > to catch the Alt by mistake). Little things like that. And in 
> > > > fvwm I have keys for audio control, taking screen shots, 
> > > > capturing the screen as a movie, rotating the monitor with 
> > > > xrandr, etc.
> > 
> > @David, if you care to share your personal tweaks then I am 
> > interested in having a closer look, for inspiration and possibly for 
> > more general use.
> 
> Sorry for the delay replying, but in view of my managing to get 
> stretch installed on the last of my machines, and with buster coming 
> up, I'd thought I'd do a bit of tidying.

Thanks a lot!

I am currently deeply engaged at Debconf in Curitiba, Brazil - but I 
will sure have a closer look at your many details later, and see if I 
can make some of them more reusable.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Wed 17 Jul 2019 at 05:53:30 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> On 17 July 2019 01:22:52 CEST, David Wright  wrote:
> >On Sat 11 May 2019 at 10:10:42 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> >> […]
> >> That encourages me to ask another stupid question: I'd like to know
> >> why the "Keyboard model" has to be set before "Keyboard layout" when
> >> walking through the dpkg-reconfigure menues?
> >> 
> >> If it was the other way around, the first choice, "Keyboard layout",
> >> could perhaps make an informed selection from the list of "Keyboard
> >> models" that could be relevant at all.
> >
> >I wasn't aware that dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration had
> >any decision-making abilities like that. I think it just turns
> >multiword descriptive lists into the pithy descriptions, so that
> >you don't have to know that a "Generic 105-key (Intl) PC" keyboard
> >becomes "pc105" and a Right Alt key for AltGr becomes
> >"lv3:ralt_switch".
> >
> >> In any case, what you care about as a user is "Keyboard layout", and
> >> in most cases when you have to make a series of choices, you start
> >> with your known knowns, not your known unknowns.
> >
> >My experience is that Keyboard Models is critical. Without getting
> >that correct, defining CapsLock as my Compose key is futile because
> >the driver doesn't seem to have a clue where the CapsLock is.
> >(That's for an "Acer laptop" PC.)
> 
> Hi David, which "driver doesn't seem to have a clue"?

I have few ideas there. I would imagine that it's something in
/lib/modules/4.9.0-9-amd64/kernel/drivers/input, likely generated
from something in linux-source-4.9/drivers/input. I don't know
whether the kernel operates at that level, or whether it's just
handing scancodes over to, say, kbd_mode for it to sort out.
Sorry, I'm just dealing in symptoms rather than causes, and only
to the depth required to get my configuration definitions working.

At the moment, I've only installed buster onto one machine (of six).
I've noticed that one or two .xsession-1-$HOSTNAME files (hooked
into .xsession) have a couple of xmodmap commands which I want
to eliminate (and check that it doesn't interfere with anything).
Each Debian distribution brings a few necessary tweaks with it, and
I try to leverage the Debian Way, removing workarounds and obsolete
methods that accumulated in the past.

So, for example, I noticed that the buster laptop was sitting with
the backlight on all morning, only to discover:

$ cat /sys/module/kernel/parameters/consoleblank
600
$ 

and no trace of /etc/kbd/config to set it in. (Where is it set in
stretch?) So now I've put
\e[9;11]\S \n \l \d  \t
into /etc/issue, and I might put kbdrate back into root's crontab
(which I tried a while back, helping Cindy log in)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/04/msg00953.html
while I figure out what's been moved where.

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Hi David, which "driver doesn't seem to have a clue"?

//Erik

sorry for top posting

On 17 July 2019 01:22:52 CEST, David Wright  wrote:
>On Sat 11 May 2019 at 10:10:42 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
>> […]
>> That encourages me to ask another stupid question: I'd like to know
>> why the "Keyboard model" has to be set before "Keyboard layout" when
>> walking through the dpkg-reconfigure menues?
>> 
>> If it was the other way around, the first choice, "Keyboard layout",
>> could perhaps make an informed selection from the list of "Keyboard
>> models" that could be relevant at all.
>
>I wasn't aware that dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration had
>any decision-making abilities like that. I think it just turns
>multiword descriptive lists into the pithy descriptions, so that
>you don't have to know that a "Generic 105-key (Intl) PC" keyboard
>becomes "pc105" and a Right Alt key for AltGr becomes
>"lv3:ralt_switch".
>
>> In any case, what you care about as a user is "Keyboard layout", and
>> in most cases when you have to make a series of choices, you start
>> with your known knowns, not your known unknowns.
>
>My experience is that Keyboard Models is critical. Without getting
>that correct, defining CapsLock as my Compose key is futile because
>the driver doesn't seem to have a clue where the CapsLock is.
>(That's for an "Acer laptop" PC.)
>
>Cheers,
>David.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Sat 11 May 2019 at 10:10:42 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> […]
> That encourages me to ask another stupid question: I'd like to know
> why the "Keyboard model" has to be set before "Keyboard layout" when
> walking through the dpkg-reconfigure menues?
> 
> If it was the other way around, the first choice, "Keyboard layout",
> could perhaps make an informed selection from the list of "Keyboard
> models" that could be relevant at all.

I wasn't aware that dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration had
any decision-making abilities like that. I think it just turns
multiword descriptive lists into the pithy descriptions, so that
you don't have to know that a "Generic 105-key (Intl) PC" keyboard
becomes "pc105" and a Right Alt key for AltGr becomes "lv3:ralt_switch".

> In any case, what you care about as a user is "Keyboard layout", and
> in most cases when you have to make a series of choices, you start
> with your known knowns, not your known unknowns.

My experience is that Keyboard Models is critical. Without getting
that correct, defining CapsLock as my Compose key is futile because
the driver doesn't seem to have a clue where the CapsLock is.
(That's for an "Acer laptop" PC.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Sat 11 May 2019 at 01:22:09 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Den 2019-05-10 kl. 18:21, skrev David Wright:
> > > For example, I append lines to /etc/console-setup/remap.inc to do 
> > > things like enhancing the navigation keys, and preventing Alt-space 
> > > from producing NO-BREAK SPACE (because it's too easy to catch the 
> > > Alt by mistake). Little things like that.
> > > And in fvwm I have keys for audio control, taking screen shots, 
> > > capturing the screen as a movie, rotating the monitor with xrandr, 
> > > etc.
> 
> @David, if you care to share your personal tweaks then I am interested 
> in having a closer look, for inspiration and possibly for more general 
> use.

Sorry for the delay replying, but in view of my managing to get
stretch installed on the last of my machines, and with buster
coming up, I'd thought I'd do a bit of tidying.

The starting point for what I do is the composed characters that are
provided in X from /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose. So I
attempt to provide the same sequences to get the same characters on
the VC, just for ones that I personally use a lot.

The definitions go into /etc/console-setup/remap.inc, but AIUI you
have to include any default ones (which are mainly those for European
languages's diacriticals) because remap.inc overwrites them. I'm not
certain where the master list is, so   dumpkeys --compose-only   on
an unmodified system is the easiest way I've found to pick them up.

I failed to duplicate the X sequences for one or two characters,
I think because you're limited to two keystrokes after the Compose,
and possibly also to the Basic Multilingual Plane of Unicode. So,
for example, I use -- and __ on VCs in place of --. and --- on X
for the en and em dashes.

Then there are some common characters that aren't defined in X, so
I put those in ~/.XCompose (with matching ones in remap.inc). Again,
you have to respecify the system defaults, but in .XCompose you can
do it with an include (saving 6000 lines).

I also have a few more exotic characters that are only defined in
emacs using its ^X8 method, like diagonal, double, and double-headed
arrows.

All these work pretty much the same across all my machines/keyboards
(though I don't need £ and ¬ on my British ones). However, the fvwm
definitions vary much more because I try to match keys' functions
mnemonically with keycap engravings, and the latter vary widely,
particularly the coloured Fn keys on laptops.

So, for example, typing Sh-Alt-[☼+] or [☼-] (where Fn-[☼+] and [☼-]
increase and decrease brightness) starts or stops ffmpeg recording
of the whole screen as a movie, and Alt-[□■] (I don't remember what
Fn-[□■] is supposed to do) takes a screenshot of the whole screen.
Adding Shift- to the latter takes the screenshot after a delay.
Most keyboards have audio keys which X can recognise.

So my fvwm configuration files contains lines like:

Key F1  A   C   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Master 0 mute
Key F1  A   S   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Speaker 0 mute
Key F1  A   CS  Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Headphone 0 mute
Key F2  A   C   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Master 5%- unmute
Key F2  A   S   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Speaker 5%- unmute
Key F2  A   CS  Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Headphone 5%- 
unmute
Key F3  A   C   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Master 5%+ unmute
Key F3  A   S   Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Speaker 5%+ unmute
Key F3  A   CS  Exec exec amixer -c 1 -- sset Headphone 5%+ 
unmute

Key F10 A   4   Maximize 100 100
Key F10 A   M   Exec exec myfvwm-scrot-key-png.sh
Key F10 A   SM  Exec exec myfvwm-scrot-key-png-delayed.sh
Key F10 R   M   Exec exec myfvwm-scrot-key-root-png.sh
Key F10 R   SM  Exec exec myfvwm-scrot-key-root-png-delayed.sh
Key F11 A   4   Raise
Key F11 A   M   -
Key F11 A   SM  Exec exec myfvwm-killcapture.sh
Key F12 A   4   Stick
Key F12 A   M   -
Key F12 A   SM  Exec exec myfvwm-capture.sh

# This performs Left/Right mouse clicks in an application (W: specifically for 
the browser,
# R: Left click in Root, but also activates Ctrl-Right click in Root!)
Key Print   WR  N   FakeClick depth 0 press 1 wait 25 release 1
Key Print   W   C   FakeClick depth 0 press 3 wait 25 release 3

I've attached some files mentioned.

Cheers,
David.
# /etc/console-setup/remap.inc last edited 2019-07-07
# The system-supplied file has only comments, so it can be replaced.
# After editing this file, run the following on a VC:
# dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
# If this file isn't perfectly correct, it will
# at best do nothing, and at worst screw things

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

On 5/22/19 12:40 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 22 May 2019 at 04:06:46 (+), Erik Josefsson wrote:

On 5/5/19 7:21 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or
warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.

Well, what comes out of one of the keyboards now is p.

In response to your pressing keys, or spontaneously?
Rapidly or intermittently?


I found the laptop "p"-ing when coming back after wiping, among other 
things, baby drool in another room. My daughter is 19 months.


More specifically, I came back to a growing line of p's in an open text 
document in Mousepad (the xfce editor). I did not press any key, nor was 
the p's coming rapidly or intermittently. I just closed Mousepad.



Is this permanent (whenever you switch on) or just occasional?


It continued in Thunderbird, but less aggressive, kind of like at the 
end of the walk with the dog (if the allegory still holds for another joke).



Or did it start mid-session?


I think more like mid session, but not sure. I have now put that laptop 
on the shelf.


If something similar happens with this laptop, we can rule out baby 
drool. I'm keeping it safe from now on.


But it also means I will have to stop testing things and instead find 
for another mode of working with Debian.



After dpkg-reconfigure console-setup or keyboard-configuration?


Probably unrelated.

But you never know (full moons etc).

Best regards.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Wed 22 May 2019 at 15:18:36 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting David Wright (2019-05-22 14:40:28)
> > On Wed 22 May 2019 at 04:06:46 (+), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> > > On 5/5/19 7:21 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or
> > > > warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.
> > > 
> > > Well, what comes out of one of the keyboards now is p.
> > 
> > In response to your pressing keys, or spontaneously?
> > Rapidly or intermittently?
> > Is this permanent (whenever you switch on) or just occasional?
> > Or did it start mid-session?
> > After dpkg-reconfigure console-setup or keyboard-configuration?
> 
> or the really scary one: Does it happen only when the moon is full?

:)

But I have a problem with this laptop where these questions would be
answered thus:

Spontaneously. Intermittently. Occasional. Not mid-session.
Not after dpkg-reconfigure. (And the characters typed are NULs.)
"What comes out of one of the keyboards now is ^@^@^@^@^@^@"
wouldn't help much in diagnosing my problem.

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting David Wright (2019-05-22 14:40:28)
> On Wed 22 May 2019 at 04:06:46 (+), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> > On 5/5/19 7:21 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or
> > > warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.
> > 
> > Well, what comes out of one of the keyboards now is p.
> 
> In response to your pressing keys, or spontaneously?
> Rapidly or intermittently?
> Is this permanent (whenever you switch on) or just occasional?
> Or did it start mid-session?
> After dpkg-reconfigure console-setup or keyboard-configuration?

or the really scary one: Does it happen only when the moon is full?


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Wed 22 May 2019 at 04:06:46 (+), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> On 5/5/19 7:21 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or
> > warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.
> 
> Well, what comes out of one of the keyboards now is p.

In response to your pressing keys, or spontaneously?
Rapidly or intermittently?
Is this permanent (whenever you switch on) or just occasional?
Or did it start mid-session?
After dpkg-reconfigure console-setup or keyboard-configuration?

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

On 5/5/19 7:21 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or
warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.


Well, what comes out of one of the keyboards now is p.

Could be warewolf p's, or baby drool.

It's magic either way.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-11 kl. 01:22, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:

Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-05-11 00:51:38)

My original problem was that I could not figure out how to get both
Swedish and pipe "|" at all (which Jonas duly noted by removing "¦"
from the original subject line).

I edited the subject line in my posts unrelated to the content of the
thread: Since recently emails sent by my "alot" which is my main Mail
User Agent (MUA) gets rejected by Debian servers if header fields
contain non-ASCII characters.


The unintended consequence of interpreting your slight edit of the 
subject line as a comment on the content of the thread was that I 
learned a lot about my own mistakes :-)


Thank you!

That encourages me to ask another stupid question: I'd like to know why 
the "Keyboard model" has to be set before "Keyboard layout" when walking 
through the dpkg-reconfigure menues?


If it was the other way around, the first choice, "Keyboard layout", 
could perhaps make an informed selection from the list of "Keyboard 
models" that could be relevant at all.


In any case, what you care about as a user is "Keyboard layout", and in 
most cases when you have to make a series of choices, you start with 
your known knowns, not your known unknowns.


Best regards.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-05-11 00:51:38)
> My original problem was that I could not figure out how to get both 
> Swedish and pipe "|" at all (which Jonas duly noted by removing "¦" 
> from the original subject line).

I edited the subject line in my posts unrelated to the content of the 
thread: Since recently emails sent by my "alot" which is my main Mail 
User Agent (MUA) gets rejected by Debian servers if header fields 
contain non-ASCII characters.

If someone happen to know the "alot" MUA and can tell the tweaking 
needed to its configuration then great, but I don't have the time for 
broader suggestions requiring me to debug on my own, so I simply try 
avoid non-ASCII characters in header fields :-/


> Den 2019-05-10 kl. 18:21, skrev David Wright:
> > For example, I append lines to /etc/console-setup/remap.inc to do 
> > things like enhancing the navigation keys, and preventing Alt-space 
> > from producing NO-BREAK SPACE (because it's too easy to catch the 
> > Alt by mistake). Little things like that.
> > And in fvwm I have keys for audio control, taking screen shots, 
> > capturing the screen as a movie, rotating the monitor with xrandr, 
> > etc.

@David, if you care to share your personal tweaks then I am interested 
in having a closer look, for inspiration and possibly for more general 
use.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-10 kl. 18:21, skrev David Wright:

On Fri 10 May 2019 at 15:45:34 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:



https://www.iso.org/standard/57852.html

If it was compliant, then I guess that would make an informed choice
of "Keyboard model" easier than it is now.





The only rule I know is that claiming compliance with standards can
cost serious money.



Thanks for that insight and explanation!



And there's my major hick-up: 7 keys would be plenty if the output
would suffice to consist of about 100 different signals since 2^7=128
(to later map on characters, numbers and whatnot). 8 keys would be
excessive. I do understand the historical reasons for 105 keys (or
80), but how they relate to what really matters (the digital output)
is a mystery.

I don't think that these shifty keys are treated in such a logical
manner. I've always assumed that there's a keyboard controller chip
that's stamping "personality" on the keys, particularly Fn.



Indeed there is a keyboard controller chip that "takes care of all 
keyboard matrix scanning, key de-bouncing and communications with the 
computer, and has an internal buffer if the keystroke data cannot be 
sent immediately. The PC motherboard decodes the data received from the 
keyboard via the PS/2 port using interrupt IRQ1".


More from same source: "If, for example, you press 'shift' and 'A' then 
both keys will generate their own scan codes, the 'A' scan code value is 
not changed if a shift or control key is also pressed. Pressing the 
letter 'A' generates 'lC'h make code and when released the break code is 
'F0'h, 'lC'h.

Pressing 'shift' and 'A' keys will generate the following scan codes:
The make code for the 'shift' key is sent '12'h.
The make code for the 'A' key is sent 'lC'h.
The break code for the 'A' key is sent 'F0'h, 'lC'h.
The break code for the 'shift' key is sent 'F0'h,' 12'h.
If the right shift was pressed then the make code is '59'h and break 
code is 'F0'h, '59'h.
By analysing these scan codes the PC software can determine which key 
was pressed. By looking at the shift keystroke the software can 
distinguish between upper and lower case."


source: 
https://www.isy.liu.se/edu/kurs/TSTE12/laboration/TSTE12_Lab1_170824.pdf


Thanks for the hints leading me to that page.



It cannot really be physicality of the "Keyboard models", nor the
(brand) names of the them, but rather the digital output that is
defining whether one "Keyboard model" is different from the other. Or
am I completely wrong here?

If I am not wrong, the next question is if there are really 193
different keyboard models in that sense?

I mean, with the same keyboard layout (e.g. Finnish), how many of the
193 would give the exact same result on screen with one particular
keyboard (e.g. the Teres laptop)?

I guess more than two (which I now know is the case).

My own take: to be on that list, someone maintaining X has to obtain a
model of that keyboard to map out all the keys. By the time that's
been done, time has past and you likely will find that that model is
history as far as shopping is concerned. Unlike with kernel
development, there's not the pressure to keep up with new models as
they come out. Pruning the list of its older models is not a
priority either.



Unfortunately that makes perfect sense.





I guess that with only 80 keys on your keyboard, many of the
differences between these different models are dealing with keys you
simply don't have. I can use pc105 for all my laptop, however many
keys they have.

As far as I can see, the "source code" to Teres' keyboard does not say
anything about that, but the Schematics file lists 25 different keys
(KBD_X0 to KBD_X16 and KBD_Y0 to KBD_Y7), and there is a micro
controller ATMEGA16U4-AU.

https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/blob/master/HARDWARE/A64-TERES/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD/Rev.A/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD_Rev.A.sch

I'm fine with thinking that KBD_X0, KBD_X1 etc on the "inside" are
connected to the 40 physical keys on the "outside". Actually with 23
electronic keys to combine, it would be enough with an unique output
per electronic key plus ,  and + to get 92
different combinations. That should be enough, no?

Enough for what? I'm not sure what you mean. But as far as your use of
the keyboard is concerned, the keypresses have been through the
microprocessor, the kernel, and perhaps the xorg driver, so you're
not going to see any one-to-one mapping.



Sorry for writing out loud, I'm not sure what I was thinking. But 
anyway, it should be possible to write a program that listens to 
keypresses and asks you to press different keys like the "left-of-z key" 
and then suggest to you which "Keyboard model" you actually have, 
regardless which "Keyboard model" you have chosen with dpkg-reconfigure. 
Then no pruning of the list would be necessary.


(I mean something like "people who have ¦ left of Z of

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Fri 10 May 2019 at 15:45:34 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> Thanks for helping me sort out my thoughts!

OK, but I don't claim any expertise here.

> Den 2019-05-06 kl. 22:42, skrev David Wright:
> > [Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the Teres keyboard beyond looking at
> > https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/SPARE-PARTS/TERES-006-Keyboard/
> > (assuming this is it), and I've no idea of what keys your USB keyboard
> > has, nor knowledge of Swedish keyboard conventions.]
> 
> Yes, that's the Teres keyboard.
> 
> The wikipedia picture ofISO/IEC 9995-3:2002 applied to the US keyboard
> layout has 3 keys to the left and 4 keys to the right of the spacebar.
> Teres has 4 keys to the left and 3 keys to the right, otherwise they
> look the same (also the print on the keys):
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995#/media/File:KB_US-ISO9995-3.svg

No surprises there, then. I've never seen R-Win on any keyboards that
aren't full size, nor a laptop without a Fn key, usually on the left.

> This similarity makes me wonder why I cannot find any information from
> Olimex (or elsewhere) whether the Teres keyboard is fully compliant
> with the ISO standard that seems to be the one at hand (and which also
> seems current):
> 
> https://www.iso.org/standard/57852.html
> 
> If it was compliant, then I guess that would make an informed choice
> of "Keyboard model" easier than it is now.
> 
> I also guess that compliance would not only mean that the number of
> keys, their relative positions and the print on the keycaps would be
> defined, but also, and more importantly, that the digital output would
> follow certain rules.

The only rule I know is that claiming compliance with standards can
cost serious money.

> And there's my major hick-up: 7 keys would be plenty if the output
> would suffice to consist of about 100 different signals since 2^7=128
> (to later map on characters, numbers and whatnot). 8 keys would be
> excessive. I do understand the historical reasons for 105 keys (or
> 80), but how they relate to what really matters (the digital output)
> is a mystery.

I don't think that these shifty keys are treated in such a logical
manner. I've always assumed that there's a keyboard controller chip
that's stamping "personality" on the keys, particularly Fn.

> It cannot really be physicality of the "Keyboard models", nor the
> (brand) names of the them, but rather the digital output that is
> defining whether one "Keyboard model" is different from the other. Or
> am I completely wrong here?
> 
> If I am not wrong, the next question is if there are really 193
> different keyboard models in that sense?
> 
> I mean, with the same keyboard layout (e.g. Finnish), how many of the
> 193 would give the exact same result on screen with one particular
> keyboard (e.g. the Teres laptop)?
> 
> I guess more than two (which I now know is the case).

My own take: to be on that list, someone maintaining X has to obtain a
model of that keyboard to map out all the keys. By the time that's
been done, time has past and you likely will find that that model is
history as far as shopping is concerned. Unlike with kernel
development, there's not the pressure to keep up with new models as
they come out. Pruning the list of its older models is not a
priority either.

> > I guess that with only 80 keys on your keyboard, many of the
> > differences between these different models are dealing with keys you
> > simply don't have. I can use pc105 for all my laptop, however many
> > keys they have.
> 
> As far as I can see, the "source code" to Teres' keyboard does not say
> anything about that, but the Schematics file lists 25 different keys
> (KBD_X0 to KBD_X16 and KBD_Y0 to KBD_Y7), and there is a micro
> controller ATMEGA16U4-AU.
> 
> https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/blob/master/HARDWARE/A64-TERES/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD/Rev.A/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD_Rev.A.sch
> 
> I'm fine with thinking that KBD_X0, KBD_X1 etc on the "inside" are
> connected to the 40 physical keys on the "outside". Actually with 23
> electronic keys to combine, it would be enough with an unique output
> per electronic key plus ,  and + to get 92
> different combinations. That should be enough, no?

Enough for what? I'm not sure what you mean. But as far as your use of
the keyboard is concerned, the keypresses have been through the
microprocessor, the kernel, and perhaps the xorg driver, so you're
not going to see any one-to-one mapping.

> > What's more important is the layout: for example a British layout
> > puts \| left of z, whereas a US one will make that key <> and the
> > \| will be 3 keys right of p. In response to that, and deleting
> > £, many of the other punctuation characters get shuffled around.
> > 
> > The "key that's missing" usually refers to that left-of-z key,
> > (i) because the fact that it's the only punctuation character
> > thereabouts makes it rather obvious that it's missing, (ii) small
> > US keyboards don't have it whereas British (and 

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Hi David!

Thanks for helping me sort out my thoughts!

Den 2019-05-06 kl. 22:42, skrev David Wright:

On Sun 05 May 2019 at 20:52:40 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:

Den 2019-05-05 kl. 16:26, skrev David Wright:

Is this some sort of ticking off for wondering why the OP is*so*
keen to be able to type ¦ directly on the keyboard that they are
almost willing to use a USB keyboard with a laptop to get it?
Particularly as the wiki page referred to above has a reference to
http://jkorpela.fi/latin1/3.html#A6
which states "It is advisable to avoid using this character, since its
code position is occupied by another character in ISO Latin 9 (alias
ISO 8859-15), which will probably widely replace ISO Latin 1 at least
in European usage."

Now, using Unicode might avoid this danger, but it's still odd to
want this character so much when it appears to be as much of a relic
as the aforementioned ECU is. And, after all, the answer is that
they didn't.

For what it's worth, I had the foggy idea that I had to figure out how
to make the Teres keyboard reproduce the output from the Scandinavian
USB keyboard. What else would be "right"?

[Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the Teres keyboard beyond looking at
https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/SPARE-PARTS/TERES-006-Keyboard/
(assuming this is it), and I've no idea of what keys your USB keyboard
has, nor knowledge of Swedish keyboard conventions.]


Yes, that's the Teres keyboard.

The wikipedia picture ofISO/IEC 9995-3:2002 applied to the US keyboard 
layout has 3 keys to the left and 4 keys to the right of the spacebar. 
Teres has 4 keys to the left and 3 keys to the right, otherwise they 
look the same (also the print on the keys):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995#/media/File:KB_US-ISO9995-3.svg

This similarity makes me wonder why I cannot find any information from 
Olimex (or elsewhere) whether the Teres keyboard is fully compliant with 
the ISO standard that seems to be the one at hand (and which also seems 
current):


https://www.iso.org/standard/57852.html

If it was compliant, then I guess that would make an informed choice of 
"Keyboard model" easier than it is now.


I also guess that compliance would not only mean that the number of 
keys, their relative positions and the print on the keycaps would be 
defined, but also, and more importantly, that the digital output would 
follow certain rules.


And there's my major hick-up: 7 keys would be plenty if the output would 
suffice to consist of about 100 different signals since 2^7=128 (to 
later map on characters, numbers and whatnot). 8 keys would be 
excessive. I do understand the historical reasons for 105 keys (or 80), 
but how they relate to what really matters (the digital output) is a 
mystery.



It cannot really be physicality of the "Keyboard models", nor the 
(brand) names of the them, but rather the digital output that is 
defining whether one "Keyboard model" is different from the other. Or am 
I completely wrong here?


If I am not wrong, the next question is if there are really 193 
different keyboard models in that sense?


I mean, with the same keyboard layout (e.g. Finnish), how many of the 
193 would give the exact same result on screen with one particular 
keyboard (e.g. the Teres laptop)?


I guess more than two (which I now know is the case).



When the 105 and 102 options then gave the same result, it got
completely lost.

And I'm still kind of lost since I don't really understand what a
"Keyboard model" is. So already at the first menu choice of
dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration I don't really know what I'm
doing there.

In the dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration menu there are [193
different keyboard models] to choose from.

But two of them are the same, at least from the point of view of a
Teres laptop.

How does that work?

I guess that with only 80 keys on your keyboard, many of the
differences between these different models are dealing with keys you
simply don't have. I can use pc105 for all my laptop, however many
keys they have.



As far as I can see, the "source code" to Teres' keyboard does not say 
anything about that, but the Schematics file lists 25 different keys 
(KBD_X0 to KBD_X16 and KBD_Y0 to KBD_Y7), and there is a micro 
controller ATMEGA16U4-AU.


https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/blob/master/HARDWARE/A64-TERES/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD/Rev.A/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD_Rev.A.sch

I'm fine with thinking that KBD_X0, KBD_X1 etc on the "inside" are 
connected to the 40 physical keys on the "outside". Actually with 23 
electronic keys to combine, it would be enough with an unique output per 
electronic key plus ,  and + to get 92 
different combinations. That should be enough, no?




What's more important is the layout: for example a British layout
puts \| left of z, whereas a US one will make that key <> and the
\| will be 3 keys right of p. In response 

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Sun 05 May 2019 at 20:52:40 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> Den 2019-05-05 kl. 16:26, skrev David Wright:
> > Is this some sort of ticking off for wondering why the OP is*so*
> > keen to be able to type ¦ directly on the keyboard that they are
> > almost willing to use a USB keyboard with a laptop to get it?
> > Particularly as the wiki page referred to above has a reference to
> > http://jkorpela.fi/latin1/3.html#A6
> > which states "It is advisable to avoid using this character, since its
> > code position is occupied by another character in ISO Latin 9 (alias
> > ISO 8859-15), which will probably widely replace ISO Latin 1 at least
> > in European usage."
> > 
> > Now, using Unicode might avoid this danger, but it's still odd to
> > want this character so much when it appears to be as much of a relic
> > as the aforementioned ECU is. And, after all, the answer is that
> > they didn't.
> 
> For what it's worth, I had the foggy idea that I had to figure out how
> to make the Teres keyboard reproduce the output from the Scandinavian
> USB keyboard. What else would be "right"?

[Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the Teres keyboard beyond looking at
https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/SPARE-PARTS/TERES-006-Keyboard/
(assuming this is it), and I've no idea of what keys your USB keyboard
has, nor knowledge of Swedish keyboard conventions.]

> When the 105 and 102 options then gave the same result, it got
> completely lost.
> 
> And I'm still kind of lost since I don't really understand what a
> "Keyboard model" is. So already at the first menu choice of
> dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration I don't really know what I'm
> doing there.
> 
> In the dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration menu there are [193
> different keyboard models] to choose from.
> 
> But two of them are the same, at least from the point of view of a
> Teres laptop.
> 
> How does that work?

I guess that with only 80 keys on your keyboard, many of the
differences between these different models are dealing with keys you
simply don't have. I can use pc105 for all my laptop, however many
keys they have.

What's more important is the layout: for example a British layout
puts \| left of z, whereas a US one will make that key <> and the
\| will be 3 keys right of p. In response to that, and deleting
£, many of the other punctuation characters get shuffled around.

The "key that's missing" usually refers to that left-of-z key,
(i) because the fact that it's the only punctuation character
thereabouts makes it rather obvious that it's missing, (ii) small
US keyboards don't have it whereas British (and I assume many
European) ones usually do.

You mentioned your Scandinavian USB keyboard with it's "broken bar"
in that left-of-z position. The "broken" appearance has been a
traditional engraving on the pipe keycap for years and doesn't
have any particular significance significance: the key produces
pipe when typed normally (ie shifted).

I don't know how they decide which glyphs should be typed when
the AltGr key is used. Perhaps it's not too surprising that they
place ¦ on the | key as a mnemonic. To what end, who knows? The
glyph is virtually useless. But what does your USB keyboard produce
when you type this key with just shift pressed?

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-05 kl. 16:26, skrev David Wright:

Is this some sort of ticking off for wondering why the OP is*so*
keen to be able to type ¦ directly on the keyboard that they are
almost willing to use a USB keyboard with a laptop to get it?
Particularly as the wiki page referred to above has a reference to
http://jkorpela.fi/latin1/3.html#A6
which states "It is advisable to avoid using this character, since its
code position is occupied by another character in ISO Latin 9 (alias
ISO 8859-15), which will probably widely replace ISO Latin 1 at least
in European usage."

Now, using Unicode might avoid this danger, but it's still odd to
want this character so much when it appears to be as much of a relic
as the aforementioned ECU is. And, after all, the answer is that
they didn't.


For what it's worth, I had the foggy idea that I had to figure out how 
to make the Teres keyboard reproduce the output from the Scandinavian 
USB keyboard. What else would be "right"?


When the 105 and 102 options then gave the same result, it got 
completely lost.


And I'm still kind of lost since I don't really understand what a 
"Keyboard model" is. So already at the first menu choice of 
dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration I don't really know what I'm 
doing there.


In the dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration menu there are [193 
different keyboard models] to choose from.


But two of them are the same, at least from the point of view of a Teres 
laptop.


How does that work?

//Erik

[193 different keyboard models]

A4Tech KB-21
A4Tech KBS-8
A4Tech Wireless Desktop RFKB-23 — безжична
Acer AirKey V
Acer C300
Acer Ferrari 4000
Acer portàtil
Advance Scorpius KI
Amiga
Apple
Apple Aluminium (ANSI)
Apple Aluminium (ISO)
Apple Aluminium (JIS)
Apple portàtil
Asus portàtil
Atari TT
Azona RF2300 wireless Internet
BenQ X-Touch
BenQ X-Touch 730
BenQ X-Touch 800
Brother Internet
BTC 5090
BTC 5113RF Multimedia
BTC 5126T
BTC 6301URF
BTC 9000
BTC 9000A
BTC 9001AH
BTC 9019U
BTC 9116U Mini Wireless Internet and Gaming — безжична, за Интернет и игри
Cherry Blue Line CyBo@rd
Cherry Blue Line CyBo@rd (alt.)
Cherry B.UNLIMITED
Cherry CyBo@rd USB-Hub
Cherry CyMotion Expert
Cherry CyMotion Master Linux
Cherry CyMotion Master XPress
Chicony Internet
Chicony KB-9885
Chicony KU-0108
Chicony KU-0420
Chromebook
Classmate PC
Compaq Armada portàtil
Compaq Easy Access
Compaq Internet (13 tecles)
Compaq Internet (18 tecles)
Compaq Internet (7 tecles)
Compaq iPaq
Compaq Presario portàtil
Creative Desktop Wireless 7000 — безжична
Dell
Dell 101-key PC
Dell Inspiron 6000/8000 portàtil
Dell Latitude portàtil
Dell Precision M65 portàtil
Dell Precision M portàtil
Dell SK-8125
Dell SK-8135
Dell USB Multimedia
Dexxa Wireless Desktop
Diamond 9801/9802
DTK2000
eMachines m6800 portàtil
Ennyah DKB-1008
Everex STEPnote
FL90
Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo portàtil
Generies 101-sleutel PC
Generies 104-sleutel PC
Genius Comfy KB-12e
Genius Comfy KB-16M/Multimedia KWD-910
Genius Comfy KB-21e-Scroll
Genius KB-19e NB
Genius KKB-2050HS
Gyration
Happy Hacking
Happy Hacking per Mac
Hewlett-Packard Internet
Hewlett-Packard Mini 110 portàtil
Hewlett-Packard NEC SK-2500 Multimedia
Hewlett-Packard nx9020
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook 500
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook 500 FA
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook 6000/6100
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook XE3 GC
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook XE3 GF
Hewlett-Packard Omnibook XT1000
Hewlett-Packard Pavilion dv5
Hewlett-Packard Pavilion ZT1100
Honeywell Euroboard
HTC Dream
IBM Rapid Access
IBM Rapid Access II
IBM Space Saver
IBM ThinkPad 560Z/600/600E/A22E
IBM ThinkPad R60/T60/R61/T61
IBM ThinkPad Z60m/Z60t/Z61m/Z61t
Keytronic FlexPro
Logitech
Logitech Access
Logitech Cordless Desktop
Logitech Cordless Desktop (alt.)
Logitech Cordless Desktop EX110
Logitech Cordless Desktop iTouch
Logitech Cordless Desktop LX-300 — безжична
Logitech Cordless Desktop Navigator
Logitech Cordless Desktop Optical
Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro (2a. alt.)
Logitech Cordless Freedom/Desktop Navigator
Logitech diNovo
Logitech diNovo Edge
Logitech G15, допълнителни клавиши чрез G15daemon
Logitech Internet
 Logitech Internet 350
Logitech Internet Navigator
Logitech iTouch
Logitech iTouch Cordless Y-RB6
Logitech iTouch Internet Navigator SE
Logitech iTouch Internet Navigator SE USB
Logitech Ultra-X
Logitech Ultra-X Cordless Media Desktop
MacBook/MacBook Pro
MacBook/MacBook Pro (intl.)
Macintosh
Macintosh (oud)
Memorex MX1998
Memorex MX2500 EZ-Access
Memorex MX2750
Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000
Microsoft Internet
Microsoft Internet Pro (Suec)
Microsoft Natural Elite
Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000
Microsoft Natural Pro OEM
Microsoft Natural Pro/Internet Pro
Microsoft Natural Pro USB/Internet Pro
Microsoft Natural Wireless Ergonomic 7000
Microsoft Natuurlik
Microsoft Office sleutelbord
Microsoft Wireless Multimedia 1.0A
NEC SK-1300
NEC SK-2500
NEC SK-6200
NEC SK-7100
Northgate OmniKey 101
OLPC
Ortek Multimedia/Internet MCK-800
PC-98
PC genèric de 102 tecles (intl.)

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting David Wright (2019-05-05 16:26:26)
> On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:16:25 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting David Wright (2019-05-04 20:14:12)
> > > We British are used to having £ available, but US keyboards don't 
> > > even have ¢.
> > 
> > ¢ (ecu) is obsolete since many years.
> 
> Er. Americans still have cents (¢).
> 
> The ECU (₠) was never a real currency anyway.

Whoops - I guess that reveals how rarely (i.e. never) I use cent sign 
:-)

Thanks for the correction!

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[David Wright]

On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:16:25 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting David Wright (2019-05-04 20:14:12)
> > On Sat 04 May 2019 at 12:23:48 (-0400), Kenneth Parker wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
> > > 
> > > With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the 
> > > "p" key.
> > > I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.
> > > 
> > > One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, 
> > > for when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.
> > > 
> > > Which?
> > 
> > Pipe lies between { and } and is 7-bit ASCII, whereas the other one
> > lies between Yen and Section. I'm not sure why the OP wants to be able
> > to type it directly from one keystroke. Look at the company it keeps:
> > ¡ ¢ £ ¤ ¥ ¦ § ¨ © ª « ¬ ­ ® ¯ ° ± ² ³ ´ µ ¶ · ¸ ¹ º » ¼ ½ ¾ ¿ À
> > We British are used to having £ available, but US keyboards don't
> > even have ¢.
> 
> ¢ (ecu) is obsolete since many years.

Er. Americans still have cents (¢).

The ECU (₠) was never a real currency anyway. I never saw its symbol
being used in the wild. Its position is way down the Unicode table,
in the company of ₡ ₢ ₣ ₤ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₨ ₩ ₪ ₫ € ₭ ₮ ₯ ₰ ₱, currency signs
that I would have difficulty naming from their symbols, apart from—

> € (euro) is the current currency sign in some of EU.
> 
> As for the original question I simply ignore the odd parts and focus on 
> what I can sensibly contribute to: The pipe sign a.k.a. Unicode 
> "vertical bar": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar

Is this some sort of ticking off for wondering why the OP is *so*
keen to be able to type ¦ directly on the keyboard that they are
almost willing to use a USB keyboard with a laptop to get it?
Particularly as the wiki page referred to above has a reference to
http://jkorpela.fi/latin1/3.html#A6
which states "It is advisable to avoid using this character, since its
code position is occupied by another character in ISO Latin 9 (alias
ISO 8859-15), which will probably widely replace ISO Latin 1 at least
in European usage."

Now, using Unicode might avoid this danger, but it's still odd to
want this character so much when it appears to be as much of a relic
as the aforementioned ECU is. And, after all, the answer is that
they didn't.

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-05 kl. 12:47, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:

Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-05-05 12:06:53)

With some stickers to put onto the printed keys I'll be fine. Grateful
for pointers to such.

Did you try search the web e.g. for "keyboard stickers"?

I did! And "swerty" came up!

http://johanegustafsson.net/projects/swerty/

He says "Swerty for Linux" has been tested  on Ubuntu 9.04, 9.10, 10.04, 
and 12.04.


I guess this means I could file a whishlist bug for both "TERES-I 
keyboard" as 'Keyboard model' and and "Swerty" as 'Keyboard layout' as 
choices presented by dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration :-)


Best regards.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-05-05 12:06:53)
> With some stickers to put onto the printed keys I'll be fine. Grateful 
> for pointers to such.

Did you try search the web e.g. for "keyboard stickers"?

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-05 kl. 04:29, skrev Erik Josefsson:

Den 2019-05-04 kl. 21:43, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:

For danish, picking the layout "Danish (Win keys) has pipe key reachable
as AltGr+= (where AltGr is the right Alt key).

I also set "Menu" (which is the key between right Alt and right Ctrl) as
compose key.


So if you were to make a Danish Teres laptop, you'd make the following 
choices in dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration?


Keyboard model:  Generic 102-key PC (intl.)
Keyboard layout: Danish - (Win keys)
Key to function as AltGr:    The default for the keyboard layout
Compose key: Menu key
Use Control+Alt+Backspace to
terminate the X server?  

Those won't work for me, but there are a couple of Finnish options I 
will try. 


Found that keyboard model "Generic 102-key PC (intl.)" and keyboard 
layout "Finnish - Finnish (Winkeys)" works for me (the rest as above).


At last! :-)

With some stickers to put onto the printed keys I'll be fine. Grateful 
for pointers to such.


Sorry for the noise.

//Erik


Configuring keyboard-configuration

Please select the model of the keyboard of this machine.
-Keyboard model: Generic 102-key PC (intl.)
Please select the layout matching the keyboard for this machine.
-Keyboard layout: Danish - Danish (Win keys) [and below "Finnish - 
Finnish (Winkeys)"]
With some keyboard layouts, AltGr is a modifier key used to input some 
characters, primarily ones that are unusual for the language of the 
keyboard layout, such as foreign currency symbols and accented letters. 
These are often printed as an extra symbol on keys.

-Key to function as AltGr:  The default for the keyboard layout
The Compose key (known also as Multi_key) causes the computer to 
interpret the next few keystrokes as a combination in order to produce a 
character not found on the keyboard. On the text console the Compose key 
does not work in Unicode mode. If not in Unicode mode, regardless of 
what you choose here, you can always also use the Control+period 
combination as a Compose key.

-Compose key:  Menu key
By default the combination Control+Alt+Backspace does nothing. If you 
want it can be used to terminate the X server.

-Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 

Danish - Danish (Win keys)

½½11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨''
aassddffgghhjjkkllææøø
zzxxccvvbbnnmm,,..--


§§!!""##¤¤%%&&//(())==??`
QQWWEERRTTYYUUIIOOPPÅÅ^**
AASSDDFFGGHHJJKKLLÆÆØØ
ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__


¾¾¡¡@@££$$€€¥¥{{[[]]}}±±||
@@łł€€®®þþ←←↓↓→→œœþþ¨~˝
ªªßßððđđŋŋħħ̉ĸĸłł´^
««»»©©““””nnµµ¸··̣

+
¶¶¹¹²²³³¼¼¢¢⅝⅝÷÷««»»°°¿¿¦¦
ΩΩŁŁ¢¢®®ÞÞ¥¥↑↑ııŒŒÞÞ°ˇ××
ºº§§ÐЪªŊŊĦĦ̛&&ŁŁ˝ˇ
<<>>©©‘‘’’NNºº˛˙˙

Finnish - Finnish (Winkeys)

§§11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨''
aassddffgghhjjkkllööää
zzxxccvvbbnnmm,,..--


½½!!""##¤¤%%&&//(())==??`
QQWWEERRTTYYUUIIOOPPÅÅ^**
AASSDDFFGGHHJJKKLLÖÖÄÄ
ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__


/@@££$$€€‚‚{{[[]]}}\\¸
qqww€€rrþþyyuuııœœ̛˝~ˇ
əəßßððffgghhjjĸĸ/øøææ
ʒʒ××ccvvbbŋŋµµ’’̣––

+
¡¡””»»««““„„<<>>°°¿¿˛
QQWWRRÞÞYYUU||ŒŒ̉°ṓ
ƏƏẞẞÐÐFFGGHHJJØØÆÆ
ƷƷ··CCVVBBŊŊ——‘‘˙,

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-05-05 03:48:22)
> Den 2019-05-04 kl. 19:08, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:
> > Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-05-04 18:23:48)
> >> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> >> 
> >>
> >>> -> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
> >>> -> Other
> >>> -> Swedish
> >>> -> Swedish
> >>> -> The default for the keyboard layout
> >>> -> No compose key
> >>> -> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
> >>> sudo shutdown -h now
> >>>
> >>> And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
> > Nothing specific to Teres-I laptop about that.
> 
> How do you know?

Fine.  I don't know if there is a screw loose in your laptop, or 
warewolves pissed on a USB plugs.  Or all those swedish solar flares...

Perhaps you'd better ask a mechanic, a veterinary, and an astronomer for 
help, instead of this mailinglist!


> Please note that both myUSB keyboard and the Teres keyboard delivers 
> identical output with the two dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration 
> options I have tried "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key 
> PC (intl.)".

If that option works great then don't change that option.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-05 kl. 04:31, skrev Doug:


What is on the last key on the right, directly above the right Enter 
key? On a US keyboard, the is a back slant (unshifted) and the pipe, 
shifted. You haven't mentioned that key at all.


The print on that physical key on the Teres laptop is backslash \ and 
(shifted) pipe | .


The keyboard physically looks like this (also the black letters map on 
the print on the keys):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995#/media/File:KB_US-ISO9995-3.svg

except for the last row that from left has 
.


Btw, that svg file seems to refer to an ISO standard that looks current:

https://www.iso.org/standard/57852.html

So maybe the Teres keyboard is actually standard compliant, despite (or 
thanks to?) the penguin key?


//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[Doug]

On 05/04/2019 08:59 PM, Erik Josefsson wrote:

Den 2019-05-04 kl. 18:23, skrev Kenneth Parker:


On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:


-> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
-> Other
-> Swedish
-> Swedish
-> The default for the keyboard layout
-> No compose key
-> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
sudo shutdown -h now

And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".


With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the "p" 
key.  I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.


One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, 
for when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.


Which?



Actually, I'm just missing pipe (for exactly that reason).

The "¦" symbol is apparently called "broken bar" and happens to be the 
what my "scandinavian" USB- keyboard gives when the physical key 
between the  and the  key is pressed together with gr>+. I have never used it before and I don't think it has a 
function in any language, see wikipedia:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar#Solid_vertical_bar_vs_broken_bar

I have not yet figured out how to make the Teres keyboard do the pipe.

//Erik


What is on the last key on the right, directly above the right Enter 
key? On a US keyboard, the is a back slant (unshifted) and the pipe, 
shifted. You haven't mentioned that key at all.


--doug

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-04 kl. 21:43, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:

For danish, picking the layout "Danish (Win keys) has pipe key reachable
as AltGr+= (where AltGr is the right Alt key).

I also set "Menu" (which is the key between right Alt and right Ctrl) as
compose key.


So if you were to make a Danish Teres laptop, you'd make the following 
choices in dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration?


Keyboard model:  Generic 102-key PC (intl.)
Keyboard layout: Danish - (Win keys)
Key to function as AltGr:    The default for the keyboard layout
Compose key: Menu key
Use Control+Alt+Backspace to
terminate the X server?  

Those won't work for me, but there are a couple of Finnish options I 
will try.


Thanks for taking time.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-04 kl. 19:08, skrev Jonas Smedegaard:

Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-05-04 18:23:48)

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:



-> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
-> Other
-> Swedish
-> Swedish
-> The default for the keyboard layout
-> No compose key
-> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
sudo shutdown -h now

And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".

Nothing specific to Teres-I laptop about that.


How do you know?

There are no signs on the box telling me that the Teres laptop keyboard 
is one or the other of the [keyboards listed] by dpkg-reconfigure 
keyboard-configuration and the link to the hardware source don't say 
either:


https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/HARDWARE/A64-TERES/TERES-PCB5-KEYBOARD


Problem is that you want a pipe key "|" reachable


Yes, that is the problem!


on a 102-key keyboard


The Teres laptop keyboard has 80 physical keys. Why do you call it a 
"102-key keyboard"?



with a swedish layout.

Swedish layout is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Swedish

Notice how "<" and ">" (on a 105-key US layout is right of "M", shifted)
is left of "Z" on a key which is missing on 102-char keyboards.


Myscandinavian USB keyboard has 105 physical keys, but since the Teres 
laptop keyboard has 80 physical keys I cannot really notice "a key which 
is missing on 102-char keyboards".


Please note that both myUSB keyboard and the Teres keyboard delivers 
identical output with the two dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration 
options I have tried "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key 
PC (intl.)".


Thanks for feedback!

//Erik


[keyboards listed]

A4Tech KB-21
A4Tech KBS-8
A4Tech Wireless Desktop RFKB-23 — безжична
Acer AirKey V
Acer C300
Acer Ferrari 4000
Acer portàtil
Advance Scorpius KI
Amiga
Apple
Apple
Apple Aluminium (ANSI)
Apple Aluminium (ISO)
Apple Aluminium (JIS)
Apple portàtil
Asus portàtil
Atari TT
Azona RF2300 wireless Internet
BenQ X-Touch
BenQ X-Touch 730
[and more...]

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[Erik Josefsson]

Den 2019-05-04 kl. 18:23, skrev Kenneth Parker:


On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:


-> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
-> Other
-> Swedish
-> Swedish
-> The default for the keyboard layout
-> No compose key
-> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
sudo shutdown -h now

And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".


With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the "p" 
key.  I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.


One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, 
for when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.


Which?



Actually, I'm just missing pipe (for exactly that reason).

The "¦" symbol is apparently called "broken bar" and happens to be the 
what my "scandinavian" USB- keyboard gives when the physical key between 
the  and the  key is pressed together with gr>+. I have never used it before and I don't think it has a 
function in any language, see wikipedia:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar#Solid_vertical_bar_vs_broken_bar

I have not yet figured out how to make the Teres keyboard do the pipe.

//Erik

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2019-05-04 19:08:19)
> Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-05-04 18:23:48)
> > On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > -> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
> > > -> Other
> > > -> Swedish
> > > -> Swedish
> > > -> The default for the keyboard layout
> > > -> No compose key
> > > -> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
> > > sudo shutdown -h now
> > >
> > > And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
> 
> Nothing specific to Teres-I laptop about that.
> 
> Problem is that you want a pipe key "|" reachable on a 102-key keyboard 
> with a swedish layout.
> 
> Swedish layout is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Swedish
> 
> Notice how "<" and ">" (on a 105-key US layout is right of "M", shifted) 
> is left of "Z" on a key which is missing on 102-char keyboards.

For danish, picking the layout "Danish (Win keys) has pipe key reachable 
as AltGr+= (where AltGr is the right Alt key).

I also set "Menu" (which is the key between right Alt and right Ctrl) as 
compose key.  That enables a range of additional key combos (but pipe 
unreachable as it requires ^ directly reachable which in danish layout 
in Shift'ed).


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting David Wright (2019-05-04 20:14:12)
> On Sat 04 May 2019 at 12:23:48 (-0400), Kenneth Parker wrote:
> > On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> > 
> > > And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
> > 
> > With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the 
> > "p" key.
> > I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.
> > 
> > One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, 
> > for when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.
> > 
> > Which?
> 
> Pipe lies between { and } and is 7-bit ASCII, whereas the other one
> lies between Yen and Section. I'm not sure why the OP wants to be able
> to type it directly from one keystroke. Look at the company it keeps:
> ¡ ¢ £ ¤ ¥ ¦ § ¨ © ª « ¬ ­ ® ¯ ° ± ² ³ ´ µ ¶ · ¸ ¹ º » ¼ ½ ¾ ¿ À
> We British are used to having £ available, but US keyboards don't
> even have ¢.

¢ (ecu) is obsolete since many years.

€ (euro) is the current currency sign in some of EU.

As for the original question I simply ignore the odd parts and focus on 
what I can sensibly contribute to: The pipe sign a.k.a. Unicode 
"vertical bar": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar


 - Jonas

-- 
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 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[David Wright]

On Sat 04 May 2019 at 12:23:48 (-0400), Kenneth Parker wrote:
> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> 
> > And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
> 
> With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the "p" key.
> I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.
> 
> One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, for
> when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.
> 
> Which?

Pipe lies between { and } and is 7-bit ASCII, whereas the other one
lies between Yen and Section. I'm not sure why the OP wants to be able
to type it directly from one keystroke. Look at the company it keeps:
¡ ¢ £ ¤ ¥ ¦ § ¨ © ª « ¬ ­ ® ¯ ° ± ² ³ ´ µ ¶ · ¸ ¹ º » ¼ ½ ¾ ¿ À
We British are used to having £ available, but US keyboards don't
even have ¢.

Cheers,
David.

Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|")

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-05-04 18:23:48)
> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:
> 
> 
> > -> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
> > -> Other
> > -> Swedish
> > -> Swedish
> > -> The default for the keyboard layout
> > -> No compose key
> > -> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
> > sudo shutdown -h now
> >
> > And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".

Nothing specific to Teres-I laptop about that.

Problem is that you want a pipe key "|" reachable on a 102-key keyboard 
with a swedish layout.

Swedish layout is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Swedish

Notice how "<" and ">" (on a 105-key US layout is right of "M", shifted) 
is left of "Z" on a key which is missing on 102-char keyboards.


> With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the "p" key.
> I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.
> 
> One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, for
> when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.
> 
> Which?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar#Solid_vertical_bar_vs_broken_bar

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Erik Josefsson  wrote:


> -> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
> -> Other
> -> Swedish
> -> Swedish
> -> The default for the keyboard layout
> -> No compose key
> -> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
> sudo shutdown -h now
>
> And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".
>

With US Keyboards, I see either of those characters, right of the "p" key.
I was not aware that there were two, distinct characters.

One of them ("|" on my current keyboard) is used as a "Pipe" symbol, for
when I "pipe" the results of one command into another.

Which?

>
> I have tried "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key PC
> (intl.)" in the menue following the command 'dpkg-reconfigure
> keyboard-configuration' (see above), but there is no difference between
> 105 and 102 wrt what the Teres keyboard produce on screen (see below).
>
> I have also tried with an USB keyboard which has one extra key between
>  and . That extra key delivers "|") and "¦" with both
> "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key PC (intl.)" (and
> Swedish).
>
> I can of course use the USB keyboard with my laptop, but it would be
> more convenient if I could get the Teres keyboard to do "|" and "¦".
>
> So, does anyone know how to make the Teres keyboard not only output
> Swedish letters, but also "|" and  "¦"?
>
> Maybe there is a "keyboard model" I can choose that is a better fit than
> "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and"Generic 102-key PC (intl.)"?
>

Thanks!

Kenneth Parker

>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> //Erik
>
> 
>
>

dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration (Swedish with "|" and "¦"?)

[Erik Josefsson]

I've now repeated the same sequence of commands a couple of times to 
make [SD-cards for the Teres laptop] and finally it looks like I get the 
same results every time :-)


*** make new Teres SD-card with new Teres laptop
mkdir /home/debian/teres
cd /home/debian/teres
wget http://box.redpill.dk/nonfree/nonfree-teres1-buster-1.0b22.img.gz
gunzip nonfree-teres1-buster-1.0b22.img.gz
lsblk --paths
lsblk --paths
umount /dev/sda
sudo cp nonfree-teres1-buster-1.0b22.img /dev/sda
*** move new Teres SD-card to new Teres laptop
sudo box-fill-disk
sudo apt update
sudo box-add-gui
sudo apt install etckeeper
sudo apt install man
sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
-> Generic 105-key PC (intl.)
-> Other
-> Swedish
-> Swedish
-> The default for the keyboard layout
-> No compose key
-> Use Control+Alt+Backspace to terminate the X server? 
sudo shutdown -h now

And it works! Now I am just missing "|" and "¦".

I have tried "Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key PC 
(intl.)" in the menue following the command 'dpkg-reconfigure 
keyboard-configuration' (see above), but there is no difference between 
105 and 102 wrt what the Teres keyboard produce on screen (see below).


I have also tried with an USB keyboard which has one extra key between 
 and . That extra key delivers "|") and "¦" with both 
"Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and "Generic 102-key PC (intl.)" (and Swedish).


I can of course use the USB keyboard with my laptop, but it would be 
more convenient if I could get the Teres keyboard to do "|" and "¦".


So, does anyone know how to make the Teres keyboard not only output 
Swedish letters, but also "|" and  "¦"?


Maybe there is a "keyboard model" I can choose that is a better fit than 
"Generic 105-key PC (intl.)" and"Generic 102-key PC (intl.)"?


Thank you for your time.

//Erik


[SD-cards for the Teres laptop] https://box.redpill.dk/nonfree/


Generic 105-key PC (intl.)

DELTACO USB keyboard

No key pressed
§§11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨
aassddffgghhjjkkllööää''
<>ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__

ALT+GR
¶¶¡¡@@££$$€€¥¥{{[[]]}}\\±±
@@łł€€®®þþ←←↓↓→→œœþþ¨~
ªªßßððđđŋŋħħ̉ĸĸłłøøææ´´
||««»»©©““””nnµµ¸··̣

ALT+GR+SHIFT
¾¾¹¹²²³³¼¼¢¢⅝⅝÷÷««»»°°¿¿¬¬
ΩΩŁŁ¢¢®®ÞÞ¥¥↑↑ııŒŒÞÞ°ˇ
ºº§§ÐЪªŊŊĦĦ̛&&ŁŁØØÆÆ××
¦¦<<>>©©‘‘’’NNºº˛˙˙


Teres keyboard

No key pressed
§§11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨''
aassddffgghhjjkkllööää
zzxxccvvbbnnmm,,..--

SHIFT
½½!!""##¤¤%%&&//(())==??`
QQWWEERRTTYYUUIIOOPPÅÅ^**
AASSDDFFGGHHJJKKLLÖÖÄÄ
ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__

ALT+GR
¶¶¡¡@@££$$€€¥¥{{[[]]}}\\±±
@@łł€€®®þþ←←↓↓→→œœþþ¨~´´
ªªßßððđđŋŋħħ̉ĸĸłłøøææ
««»»©©““””nnµµ¸··̣

ALT+GR+SHIFT
¾¾¹¹²²³³¼¼¢¢⅝⅝÷÷««»»°°¿¿¬¬
ΩΩŁŁ¢¢®®ÞÞ¥¥↑↑ııŒŒÞÞ°ˇ××
ºº§§ÐЪªŊŊĦĦ̛&&ŁŁØØÆÆ
<<>>©©‘‘’’NNºº˛˙˙



Generic 102-key PC (intl.)

DELTACO USB keyboard

No key pressed
§§11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨
aassddffgghhjjkkllööää''
<>ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__

ALT+GR
¶¶¡¡@@££$$€€¥¥{{[[]]}}\\±±
@@łł€€®®þþ←←↓↓→→œœþþ¨~
ªªßßððđđŋŋħħ̉ĸĸłłøøææ´´
||««»»©©““””nnµµ¸··̣

ALT+GR+SHIFT
¾¾¹¹²²³³¼¼¢¢⅝⅝÷÷««»»°°¿¿¬¬
ΩΩŁŁ¢¢®®ÞÞ¥¥↑↑ııŒŒÞÞ°ˇ
ºº§§ÐЪªŊŊĦĦ̛&&ŁŁØØÆÆ××
¦¦<<>>©©‘‘’’NNºº˛˙˙


Teres keyboard

No key pressed
§§11223344556677889900++´
qqwweerrttyyuuiiooppåå¨''
aassddffgghhjjkkllööää
zzxxccvvbbnnmm,,..--

SHIFT
½½!!""##¤¤%%&&//(())==??`
QQWWEERRTTYYUUIIOOPPÅÅ^**
AASSDDFFGGHHJJKKLLÖÖÄÄ
ZZXXCCVVBBNNMM;;::__

ALT+GR
¶¶¡¡@@££$$€€¥¥{{[[]]}}\\±±
@@łł€€®®þþ←←↓↓→→œœþþ¨~´´
ªªßßððđđŋŋħħ̉ĸĸłłøøææ
««»»©©““””nnµµ¸··̣

ALT+GR+SHIFT
¾¾¹¹²²³³¼¼¢¢⅝⅝÷÷««»»°°¿¿¬¬
ΩΩŁŁ¢¢®®ÞÞ¥¥↑↑ııŒŒÞÞ°ˇ××
ºº§§ÐЪªŊŊĦĦ̛&&ŁŁØØÆÆ
<<>>©©‘‘’’NNºº˛˙˙

dpkg-reconfigure locales

[Listeiro 037]

Saudações a todos.

Estive pesquisando sobre caracteres em terminal e gostaria de saber
sobre um locale em Debian que não encontrei.

Chama-se Sundanese. Existe? Não existe?

O código que encontrei pareceu ser su e su_ID.

Pode ser que encontre mais outros que não existem. Mas por enquanto é
este.

Se não existir, como fazer a faixa de unicode deles aparecer no
terminal?

Desde já agradeço.

Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Camaleón]

El Tue, 02 Apr 2013 14:56:59 -0600, Dennis Xiloj escribió:

 On Mar 02 Abr 2013 08:26:29 Camaleón escribió:
 El Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:30:10 -0600, Dennis Xiloj escribió:
  On Lun 01 Abr 2013 07:07:08 Camaleón escribió:
 (...)
 
  Para eso tendrás que consultar el manual o la documentación de lo
  que hace cada paquete ya que la utilidad dpkg-reconfigure sólo
  vuelve a ejecutar la rutina inicial del configuración.
  
  Con una sutil diferencia, muchos paquetes inicialmente se configuran
  con valores predefinidos, sin consultar nada.
 
 ¿Y qué van a consultar si no hay nada y se parte de cero?
 
 
 Esa no es la diferencia, instalar de cero un paquete y volver a
 configurarlo no es lo mismo. El nivel de prioridad de las preguntas
 cambia.

No entiendo... a ver, ¿quieres decir que dpkg-reconfigure usa un nivel 
de prioridad distinto en base a qué exactamente? Digo, porque si ejecutas 
dpkg-reconfigure implica que el paquete ya ha sido instalado :-?

  dpkg-reconfigure en cambio consulta cada cosa, dependiendo del
  paquete, claro.
 
 ¿A qué te refieres? La página del manual no menciona ninguna
 diferenciación:

(...)

 La clave está en el much like.
 
 Esto en realidad depende de debconf, dpkg-reconfigure sólo es una
 utilidad que hace uso de debconf.
 
 La cantidad de preguntas que aparecen depende del nivel de prioridad,
 veamos lo que dice el manual de debconf:

(...)

 Debconf siempre usa prioridad high, a no ser que se configure de otra
 forma. En cambio dpkg-reconfigure siempre usa la prioridad low, a no
 ser que se le especifique de otra forma.

Ah, entonces dpkg-reconfigure siempre hace las mismas preguntas 
independientemente de que se haya instalado anteriormente el paquete.

 Por eso, dpkg-reconfigure en muchas ocasiones hace muchas más preguntas
 al usuario que las que se presentan normalmente en
 instalaciones/reinstalaciones.

Entendido... La diferencia es que dpkg-reconfigure usa una prioridad 
distinta cuando se ejecuta al instalar un paquete (lo llama debconf) que 
cuando lo ejecuta manualmente el usuario.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Camaleón]

El Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:30:10 -0600, Dennis Xiloj escribió:

 On Lun 01 Abr 2013 07:07:08 Camaleón escribió:

(...)

 Para eso tendrás que consultar el manual o la documentación de lo que
 hace cada paquete ya que la utilidad dpkg-reconfigure sólo vuelve a
 ejecutar la rutina inicial del configuración.
 
 Con una sutil diferencia, muchos paquetes inicialmente se configuran con
 valores predefinidos, sin consultar nada. 

¿Y qué van a consultar si no hay nada y se parte de cero?

 dpkg-reconfigure en cambio consulta cada cosa, dependiendo del paquete,
 claro.

¿A qué te refieres? La página del manual no menciona ninguna 
diferenciación:

***
DESCRIPTION
dpkg-reconfigure reconfigures packages after they have already been
installed. Pass it the names of a package or packages to reconfigure. It
will ask configuration questions, much like when the package was first
installed.
***

Si quieres decir que al preguntarte te toma las variables que ya están 
presentes en los archivos de configuración, pues es posible, es más, 
sería lo más lógico.

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Dennis Xiloj]

On Mar 02 Abr 2013 08:26:29 Camaleón escribió:
 El Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:30:10 -0600, Dennis Xiloj escribió:
  On Lun 01 Abr 2013 07:07:08 Camaleón escribió:
 (...)
 
  Para eso tendrás que consultar el manual o la documentación de lo que
  hace cada paquete ya que la utilidad dpkg-reconfigure sólo vuelve a
  ejecutar la rutina inicial del configuración.
  
  Con una sutil diferencia, muchos paquetes inicialmente se configuran con
  valores predefinidos, sin consultar nada.
 
 ¿Y qué van a consultar si no hay nada y se parte de cero?
 

Esa no es la diferencia, instalar de cero un paquete y volver a configurarlo no 
es lo mismo. El nivel de prioridad de las preguntas cambia.

  dpkg-reconfigure en cambio consulta cada cosa, dependiendo del paquete,
  claro.
 
 ¿A qué te refieres? La página del manual no menciona ninguna
 diferenciación:
 
 ***
 DESCRIPTION
 dpkg-reconfigure reconfigures packages after they have already been
 installed. Pass it the names of a package or packages to reconfigure. It
 will ask configuration questions, much like when the package was first
 installed.
 ***

La clave está en el much like. 

Esto en realidad depende de debconf, dpkg-reconfigure sólo es una utilidad que 
hace uso de debconf. 

La cantidad de preguntas que aparecen depende del nivel de prioridad, veamos 
lo que dice el manual de debconf:


Priorities
   Another nice feature of debconf is that the questions it asks  you  are
   prioritized. If you don’t want to be bothered about every little thing,
   you can set up debconf to only ask you the  most  important  questions.
   On the other hand, if you are a control freak, you can make it show you
   all questions. Each question has a priority.  In  increasing  order  of
   importance:

   lowVery  trivial questions that have defaults that will work in the
  vast majority of cases.

   medium Normal questions that have reasonable defaults.

   high   Questions that don’t have a reasonable default.

   critical
  Questions that you really, really need to see (or else).

   Only questions with a priority equal to or greater  than  the  priority
   you  choose  will  be  shown  to you. You can set the priority value by
   reconfiguring debconf, or temporarily by passing  --priority=  followed
   by  the  value  to  the  dpkg-reconfigure(8)  and  dpkg-preconfigure(8)
   commands, or by setting the DEBIAN_PRIORITY environment variable.


Debconf siempre usa prioridad high, a no ser que se configure de otra forma.
En cambio dpkg-reconfigure siempre usa la prioridad low, a no ser que se le 
especifique de otra forma.

Por eso, dpkg-reconfigure en muchas ocasiones hace muchas más preguntas al 
usuario que las que se presentan normalmente en instalaciones/reinstalaciones. 

 
 Si quieres decir que al preguntarte te toma las variables que ya están
 presentes en los archivos de configuración, pues es posible, es más,
 sería lo más lógico.
 

Eso también lo hace.

 Saludos,

Saludos

-- 
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Ing. Telecomunicaciones | Desarrollador Web


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Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[academia]

Hola listeros. Necesito me faciliten algunos ejemplos (todos los que
dispongan) acerca de cómo reconfigurar paquetes en debian, o sea, cómo
utilizar el comando (dpkg-reconfigure), además, para qué se utilizan. (NO
TENGO INTERNET) Si alguien tiene algún documento, manual, etc me los
pueden mandar al privado. Debajo expongo algunos que conozco, pero se que
existen muchos más, los cuales quiero conocerlos y utilizarlos.



Por ej,

dpkg-reconfigure locales-- genera los nuevos locales

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg   -- Reconfigurar el servidor gráfico

dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration -- Configuraciones del teclado


Saludos,

==**==
M.Sc. Saúl Giniebra Muñoz
Profesor/Admin-Red Academia de Artes Plásticas
Pinar del Río. Cuba

GNU/Linux Debian
Linux User No. 555860


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Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Camaleón]

El Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:43:48 -0400, academia escribió:

 Hola listeros. Necesito me faciliten algunos ejemplos (todos los que
 dispongan) acerca de cómo reconfigurar paquetes en debian, o sea, cómo
 utilizar el comando (dpkg-reconfigure), 

Hum...

dpkg-reconfigure [espacio] [tab] [tab]

 además, para qué se utilizan.

Creo que nunca lo he tenido que utilizar.

 (NO TENGO INTERNET) Si alguien tiene algún documento, manual, etc me los
 pueden mandar al privado. Debajo expongo algunos que conozco, pero se
 que existen muchos más, los cuales quiero conocerlos y utilizarlos.

(...)

man dpkg-reconfigure

 Por ej,
 
 dpkg-reconfigure locales  -- genera los nuevos locales
 
 dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg -- Reconfigurar el servidor gráfico
 
 dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration   -- Configuraciones del teclado

Para eso tendrás que consultar el manual o la documentación de lo que 
hace cada paquete ya que la utilidad dpkg-reconfigure sólo vuelve a 
ejecutar la rutina inicial del configuración.

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Jose Pablo Rojas]

El dpkg-reconfigure es para volver a configurar nuevamente el paquete,
entonces sirve practicamente con cualquier paquete que tengas instalado en
la máquina.


El 1 de abril de 2013 07:43, acade...@pinarte.cult.cu escribió:

 Hola listeros. Necesito me faciliten algunos ejemplos (todos los que
 dispongan) acerca de cómo reconfigurar paquetes en debian, o sea, cómo
 utilizar el comando (dpkg-reconfigure), además, para qué se utilizan. (NO
 TENGO INTERNET) Si alguien tiene algún documento, manual, etc me los
 pueden mandar al privado. Debajo expongo algunos que conozco, pero se que
 existen muchos más, los cuales quiero conocerlos y utilizarlos.



 Por ej,

 dpkg-reconfigure locales-- genera los nuevos locales

 dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg   -- Reconfigurar el servidor
 gráfico

 dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration -- Configuraciones del teclado


 Saludos,

 ==**==
 M.Sc. Saúl Giniebra Muñoz
 Profesor/Admin-Red Academia de Artes Plásticas
 Pinar del Río. Cuba

 GNU/Linux Debian
 Linux User No. 555860


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Re: Ayuda comando dpkg-reconfigure

[Dennis Xiloj]

On Lun 01 Abr 2013 07:07:08 Camaleón escribió:
 El Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:43:48 -0400, academia escribió:
  Hola listeros. Necesito me faciliten algunos ejemplos (todos los que
  dispongan) acerca de cómo reconfigurar paquetes en debian, o sea, cómo
  utilizar el comando (dpkg-reconfigure),
 
 Hum...
 
 dpkg-reconfigure [espacio] [tab] [tab]
 
  además, para qué se utilizan.
 
 Creo que nunca lo he tenido que utilizar.
 
  (NO TENGO INTERNET) Si alguien tiene algún documento, manual, etc me los
  pueden mandar al privado. Debajo expongo algunos que conozco, pero se
  que existen muchos más, los cuales quiero conocerlos y utilizarlos.
 
 (...)
 
 man dpkg-reconfigure
 
  Por ej,
  
  dpkg-reconfigure locales-- genera los nuevos locales
  
  dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg   -- Reconfigurar el servidor 
  gráfico
  
  dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration -- Configuraciones del teclado
 
 Para eso tendrás que consultar el manual o la documentación de lo que
 hace cada paquete ya que la utilidad dpkg-reconfigure sólo vuelve a
 ejecutar la rutina inicial del configuración.
 
Con una sutil diferencia, muchos paquetes inicialmente se configuran con 
valores predefinidos, sin consultar nada. dpkg-reconfigure en cambio consulta 
cada cosa, dependiendo del paquete, claro.


 Saludos,
Saludos

-- 
Dennis Xiloj
Ing. Telecomunicaciones | Desarrollador Web


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dpkg-reconfigure non interractif

[Nicolas Roudninski]

Bonjour,

Je repose la question au cas où quelqu'un aurait une idée, une piste :

Sur mon serveur debian, depuis quelques jours la commande dpkg-reconfigure
paquet n'est plus interactive. Par exemple, quand je lance
dpkg-reconfigure localepurge, rien ne se passe. J'ai tenté un
dpkg-reconfigure debconf, même résultat.

Auriez-vous une piste ?

Merci d'avance.

-- 
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nicor...@gmail.com

Re: dpkg-reconfigure non interractif

[Nicolas PHAM]

Bonjour,

rien dans */etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg ?

@+
*


Le 9 janvier 2013 12:31, Nicolas Roudninski nicor...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Bonjour,

 Je repose la question au cas où quelqu'un aurait une idée, une piste :

 Sur mon serveur debian, depuis quelques jours la commande
 dpkg-reconfigure paquet n'est plus interactive. Par exemple, quand je
 lance dpkg-reconfigure localepurge, rien ne se passe. J'ai tenté un
 dpkg-reconfigure debconf, même résultat.

 Auriez-vous une piste ?

 Merci d'avance.

 --
 Nicolas
 nicor...@gmail.com




-- 
Nicolas PHAM
Powered by GNU/Linux

dpkg-reconfigure n'est plus interactif

[Nicolas Roudninski]

Bonjour à tous et bonne année 2013,

Sur mon serveur debian, depuis quelques jours la commande dpkg-reconfigure
paquet n'est plus interactive. Par exemple, quand je lance
dpkg-reconfigure localepurge, rien ne se passe. J'ai tenté un
dpkg-reconfigure debconf, même résultat.

Auriez-vous une piste ?

Merci d'avance.

-- 
Nicolas
nicor...@gmail.com

Re: dpkg-reconfigure n'est plus interactif

[Guy Roussin]

Essayes de fixer la priorité (low medium high critical)
dpkg-reconfigure -plow debconf

Guy

On 06/01/2013 11:38, Nicolas Roudninski wrote:

Bonjour à tous et bonne année 2013,

Sur mon serveur debian, depuis quelques jours la commande 
dpkg-reconfigure paquet n'est plus interactive. Par exemple, quand 
je lance dpkg-reconfigure localepurge, rien ne se passe. J'ai tenté 
un dpkg-reconfigure debconf, même résultat.


Auriez-vous une piste ?

Merci d'avance.

--
Nicolas
nicor...@gmail.com mailto:nicor...@gmail.com

Re: dpkg-reconfigure locales et utf8

[Vincent Lefevre]

Bonjour,

On 2012-11-24 12:03:32 +0100, fabrice régnier wrote:
 salut la liste,
 
 J'ai décidé de passer complètement une machine en utf8 (j'avais des
 soucis avec mysqladmin qui m'insultait régulièrement).
 
 Un coup de dpkg-reconfigure locales,je vire le fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 et
 je mets le fr_FR.UTF-8 UTF-8 uniquement.
 
 maintenant, j'ai bien:
 FA:/tmp# locale
 LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LANGUAGE=
 LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MESSAGES=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_PAPER=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_NAME=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_ADDRESS=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_TELEPHONE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_IDENTIFICATION=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_ALL=

Il vaut mieux confirmer cette info avec locale charmap, au cas où.

 Mais:
 FA:/tmp# touch /tmp/pépé
 FA:/tmp# ls
 p?p?

Si tu obtiens ça *après* le changement de locales (ce que tu as fait
ci-dessus), ce n'est pas normal. Ton terminal est peut-être toujours
configuré en ISO-8859-15: dans un tel cas, les accents apparaissent
bien quand tu les tapes au clavier et le shell va les accepter
tels quels (même s'ils sont mal encodés), mais le ls va changer les
séquences UTF-8 invalides en ?. Cf sa page man pour le comportement
observé:

   -q, --hide-control-chars
  print ? instead of non graphic characters

   --show-control-chars
  show non graphic characters as-is (default unless program
  is 'ls' and output is a terminal)

-- 
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.net/blog/
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure locales et utf8

[Jérôme]

Le samedi 24 novembre 2012 à 13:44 +0100, Bzzz a écrit :
 Il existe (sous sid) utf8-migration-tool, c'est du python et ça n'est
 pas sûr que ça marche avec une version antérieure de python. 

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=utf8-migration-toolsearchon=namessuite=stablesection=all

ça existait déjà au moins sous Lenny, pour etch je ne sais plus.

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure locales et utf8

[jean]

Le Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:03:32 +0100,
fabrice régnier regnier@free.fr a écrit :

 salut la liste,
 
 J'ai décidé de passer complètement une machine en utf8 (j'avais des
 soucis avec mysqladmin qui m'insultait régulièrement).
 
 Un coup de dpkg-reconfigure locales,je vire le fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 et
 je mets le fr_FR.UTF-8 UTF-8 uniquement.
 
 maintenant, j'ai bien:
 FA:/tmp# locale
 LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LANGUAGE=
 LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MESSAGES=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_PAPER=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_NAME=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_ADDRESS=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_TELEPHONE=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_IDENTIFICATION=fr_FR.UTF-8
 LC_ALL=
 
 Mais:
 FA:/tmp# touch /tmp/pépé
 FA:/tmp# ls
 p?p?
 
 Et dans l'éditeur joe, impossible d'accentuer.
 
 Faut-il que je remette fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 ? J'aimerai pourtant bien
 m'en passer.
 
 Merki ;)
 
 f.
 
Il y a pas mal de temps j'avais utilisé convmv qui avait fait le job sans
problème. 


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dpkg-reconfigure locales et utf8

[fabrice régnier]

salut la liste,

J'ai décidé de passer complètement une machine en utf8 (j'avais des
soucis avec mysqladmin qui m'insultait régulièrement).

Un coup de dpkg-reconfigure locales,je vire le fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 et
je mets le fr_FR.UTF-8 UTF-8 uniquement.

maintenant, j'ai bien:
FA:/tmp# locale
LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=
LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_MESSAGES=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_PAPER=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_NAME=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_IDENTIFICATION=fr_FR.UTF-8
LC_ALL=

Mais:
FA:/tmp# touch /tmp/pépé
FA:/tmp# ls
p?p?

Et dans l'éditeur joe, impossible d'accentuer.

Faut-il que je remette fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 ? J'aimerai pourtant bien
m'en passer.

Merki ;)

f.

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure locales et utf8

[Bzzz]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:03:32 +0100
fabrice régnier regnier@free.fr wrote:

 Un coup de dpkg-reconfigure locales,je vire le fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 et
 je mets le fr_FR.UTF-8 UTF-8 uniquement.

O_o, un semblant d'erreur.
 
 Mais:
 FA:/tmp# touch /tmp/pépé
 FA:/tmp# ls
 p?p?

Normal: il ne suffit pas de dire à un livre passe en utf8 pour que
les contenus (antérieurs!) de ses pages migrent également.

Il aussi faut migrer *tous* les fichiers (notamment texte) vers utf8.

 Et dans l'éditeur joe, impossible d'accentuer.
 
 Faut-il que je remette fr_FR@euro ISO-8859-15 ? J'aimerai pourtant bien
 m'en passer.

Vi, c'est plus sage comme décision.

Il existe (sous sid) utf8-migration-tool, c'est du python et ça n'est
pas sûr que ça marche avec une version antérieure de python.
Sinon, la solution la plus rapide est en Gal de faire un backup, 
réinstaller en utf8, ne restaurer que les données voulues et migrer
leurs fichiers vers utf8 en faisant un ch'tit script bash.

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package#dpkg-reconfigure

[james gray]

The package:

#dpkg-reconfigure


Question:

does it actually exist.

-

At this page:

http://wiki.debian.org/Xorg


there are instructions to call:

#dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration



at this page:

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s03.html.en

that is geared towards 6.0 Squeeze 32 bit PC i386


i found no maintainer e mail address for this doc.


6.3.1.3 Choosing a keyboard


the suggestion:

you'll be able to select a keyboard layout from a wider range of choices
(run dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration as root after you have
completed the installation).



#su dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration


unknown id: dpkg-reconfigure

-

there is a man page for dpkg-reconfigure




searching Debian Packages with the option: package contents with word:
dpkkg-reconfigure does show some bread crumbs, no lunch after searching
through the leads.


http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=defaultsection=allarch=anysearchon=contentskeywords=dpkg-reconfigure


---


Could some one please allow me to know , what .


Thank you.

Re: package#dpkg-reconfigure

[Darac Marjal]

On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 06:05:59AM -0700, james gray wrote:
The package:
 
#dpkg-reconfigure
 
Question:
 
does it actually exist.

No. The file dpkg-reconfigure is actually part of the debconf (or
cdebconf) package.

[cut]
 
#su dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
 
unknown id: dpkg-reconfigure

Check the manpage for su. Perhaps you meant sudo there instead?



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: package#dpkg-reconfigure

[tv.deb...@googlemail.com]

On 02/11/2012 14:05, james gray wrote:

The package:

#dpkg-reconfigure


Question:

does it actually exist.


[cut]


Could some one please allow me to know , what .


Thank you.



Hi,

$ dpkg -S dpkg-reconfigure

debconf-i18n: /usr/share/man/de/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz
debconf-i18n: /usr/share/man/fr/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz
debconf-i18n: /usr/share/man/ru/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz
debconf: /usr/share/man/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz
debconf-i18n: /usr/share/man/pt/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz
debconf: /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure
bash-completion: /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/dpkg-reconfigure
debconf-i18n: /usr/share/man/es/man8/dpkg-reconfigure.8.gz

I guess /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure included in package debconf is what 
you are looking for.



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Re: package#dpkg-reconfigure

[Slavko]

Hi,

Dňa Fri, 2 Nov 2012 06:05:59 -0700 james gray kmz...@gmail.com
napísal:

 #su dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

try:

#sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

or:

#su
#dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

or edit the /etc/default/keyboard file manually.

regards

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Re: package#dpkg-reconfigure

[Brian]

On Fri 02 Nov 2012 at 06:05:59 -0700, james gray wrote:

 The package:
 
 #dpkg-reconfigure

dpkg-reconfigure is not a package.

 Question:
 
 does it actually exist.

Run the command

dpkg -S dpkg-reconfigure

to discover which package a file is in.

[Snip]

 #su dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
 
 
 unknown id: dpkg-reconfigure

Type 'su'. Nothing else. Press ENTER. Give the root password. Then
execute:

dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration


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Tip #42 dpkg-reconfigure (was ...Re: Adobe Flash in Chromium out of date: stable debian)

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 03:45:14PM -0500, John W. Foster wrote:
 On Fri, 2012-06-15 at 14:46 -0400, John L. Cunningham wrote:
  dpkg-reconfigure flashplugin-nonfree
 
 And once again this marvelous list has come thru for me.
 Thanks John!!
 That did the trick. I'm surprised I have not heard of this b/4 but will
 file it away in my tips/tricks area.
 frosty

This dpkg-reconfigure package-name can be useful for any package,
not just flashplugin-nonfree.

For example, a dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r) will
reconfigure the kernel:

root@tal:~# dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
Running depmod.
Examining /etc/kernel/postinst.d.
run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools
3.2.0-2-686-pae /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-2-686-pae
update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-2-686-pae 
run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/pm-utils 3.2.0-2-686-pae 
/boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-2-686-pae
run-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub
3.2.0-2-686-pae /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-2-686-pae
Generating grub.cfg ...
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-2-686-pae
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-2-686-pae
done
root@tal:~#


If any error messages occur DON'T reboot untill the errors are fixed.

Handy in case of concern of boot problems after a big upgrade,
especially if you feel uneasy about rebooting.

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dpkg-reconfigure affected by environment variables

[Vincent Lefevre]

Is it normal that dpkg-reconfigure can be affected by environment
variables?

For instance, I have PERL5LIB set to /home/vlefevre/lib/site_perl,
and when I do a su, this variable is kept in the environment,
and in the strace output on a dpkg-reconfigure, I could see that
$PERL5LIB was searched for Perl modules.

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure affected by environment variables

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Friday 22 January 2010 10:03:07 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
 Is it normal that dpkg-reconfigure can be affected by environment
 variables?

That's pretty normal.  Most programs don't go out of their way to ignore your 
environment settings.

dpkg-reconfigure also uses things like LANG and LC_* for when it invokes 
debconf.

 For instance, I have PERL5LIB set to /home/vlefevre/lib/site_perl,
 and when I do a su, this variable is kept in the environment,
 and in the strace output on a dpkg-reconfigure, I could see that
 $PERL5LIB was searched for Perl modules.

You can use (su -) to get a clean environment.  sudo also has features for 
cleaning the environment when changing users.
-- 
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b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc - error - is this a problem?

[Charlie]

Hello Everyone,

System Debian Testing [Squeeze] after upgrade:

As root did: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc

Got the error messages below:

# dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc
info: Checking if it is safe to convert to dependency based boot.
error: Unable to migrate to dependency based boot sequencing.
error: Problems detected: insserv: warning: script
'S25libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,  insserv:
warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,

[end quote]

Is this a problem?

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.

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Moreover I have tried it fairly and, strange as it may seem, am
satisfied that it does not agree with my constitution..Henry David
Thoreau

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Re: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc - error - is this a problem?

[Γιώργος Πάλλας]

Charlie wrote:

Hello Everyone,

System Debian Testing [Squeeze] after upgrade:

As root did: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc

Got the error messages below:

# dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc
info: Checking if it is safe to convert to dependency based boot.
error: Unable to migrate to dependency based boot sequencing.
error: Problems detected: insserv: warning: script
'S25libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,  insserv:
warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,

[end quote]

Is this a problem?

  


No, it is not a problem: Debian changed its booting philosophy...



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Re: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc - error - is this a problem?

[Charlie]

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:57:22 +0300 Γιώργος Πάλλας gp...@ccf.auth.gr
sent this information:


Charlie wrote:
 Hello Everyone,

 System Debian Testing [Squeeze] after upgrade:

 As root did: dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc

 Got the error messages below:

 # dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc
 info: Checking if it is safe to convert to dependency based boot.
 error: Unable to migrate to dependency based boot sequencing.
 error: Problems detected: insserv: warning: script
 'S25libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,  insserv:
 warning: script 'libdevmapper1.02' missing LSB tags and overrides,

 [end quote]

 Is this a problem?

   

No, it is not a problem: Debian changed its booting philosophy...


Thank you Γιώργος Πάλλας for your prompt and reassuring reply.

Be well,
Charlie
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.

I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still
can do something; I will not refuse to do something I can doHelen
Keller

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dpkg-reconfigure slapd no hace nada

[Javier E . Pérez P .]

hola todos, les para tratar aclarar algo sobre slapd, estaba a punto de
reportarlo como bug pero primero quería consultar a la audiencia :)

Les explico mi problema, quiero configurar mi LDAP para que el dn sea algo
como:

dc=algo,dc=int

pero si instalo slapd solo me pregunta por la clave del administrador del
slapd, así que hago un

dpkg-reconfigure slapd

las preguntas que se hacen son:
- si quiero omitir la configuraicón del servidor
 = respondo NO, porque si respondo si sale ahi mismo y no hace nada

- el nombre del dns
 = sería algo.int

- nombre de la organización
 = algo.int

- clave admin de LDAP
= 123456

- repetir
 = 123456

- base de datos a usar
 = hdb

- si deseo que se borre la bd cuando elimine el paquete
 = no

- respaldar la bd antigua
 = si

- permitir protocolo ldapv2
 = no

SALE.



Yo tengo entendido que en este punto se debe crear (automagicamente con el
dpkg-reconfigure) el archivo de configuración de slapd
(/etc/ldap/slapd.conf) y la base de datos (/var/lib/ldap/*), pero no hace
ninguno de los dos!

es que estoy haciendo algo mal?
es un bug?


como trate reportarlo como un bug (y luego pensé en escribir por acá antes)
dejo la salida que reportbug me dio quizá sirva de utilidad, gracias de
antemano.

saludos.


Subject: dpkg-reconfigure slapd do nothing
Package: slapd
Version: 2.4.11-1
Severity: normal

*** Please type your report below this line ***


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0.2
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=es_VE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=es_VE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages slapd depends on:
ii  adduser   3.110  add and remove users and groups
ii  coreutils 6.10-6 The GNU core utilities
ii  debconf [debconf- 1.5.24 Debian configuration management
sy
ii  libc6 2.7-18 GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii  libdb4.2  4.2.52+dfsg-5  Berkeley v4.2 Database
Libraries [
ii  libgnutls26   2.4.2-6+lenny1 the GNU TLS library - runtime
libr
ii  libldap-2.4-2 2.4.11-1   OpenLDAP libraries
ii  libltdl3  1.5.26-4   A system independent dlopen
wrappe
ii  libperl5.10   5.10.0-19  Shared Perl library
ii  libsasl2-22.1.22.dfsg1-23+lenny1 Cyrus SASL - authentication
abstra
ii  libslp1   1.2.1-7.5  OpenSLP libraries
ii  libwrap0  7.6.q-16   Wietse Venema's TCP wrappers
libra
ii  perl [libmime-bas 5.10.0-19  Larry Wall's Practical
Extraction
ii  psmisc22.6-1 Utilities that use the proc
filesy
ii  unixodbc  2.2.11-16  ODBC tools libraries

Versions of packages slapd recommends:
ii  libsasl2-modules  2.1.22.dfsg1-23+lenny1 Cyrus SASL - pluggable
authenticat

Versions of packages slapd suggests:
pn  ldap-utilsnone (no description available)

-- debconf information:
  slapd/password_mismatch:
  slapd/tlsciphersuite:
  slapd/invalid_config: true
  shared/organization: cantv.net
  slapd/upgrade_slapcat_failure:
  slapd/slurpd_obsolete:
  slapd/backend: HDB
  slapd/dump_database: when needed
  slapd/allow_ldap_v2: false
* slapd/no_configuration: false
  slapd/move_old_database: true
  slapd/suffix_change: false
  slapd/dump_database_destdir: /var/backups/slapd-VERSION
  slapd/purge_database: false
  slapd/domain: cantv.net

Re: dpkg-reconfigure slapd no hace nada

[BasaBuru]

On Domingo 26 Julio 2009 10:01:34 Javier E. Pérez P. escribió:
 hola todos, les para tratar aclarar algo sobre slapd, estaba a punto de
 reportarlo como bug pero primero quería consultar a la audiencia :)

 es que estoy haciendo algo mal?
 es un bug?

No es un bug, tienes que configurar:

/etc/ldap/slapd.conf
/etc/ldap/ldap.conf 
/etc/pam_ldap.conf

Este howto (para etch) que escribí te puede ayudar, es la sección OpenLDAP

http://diariolinux.com/2008/02/22/howto-
debianopensslbind9postfixopenldapcourier-i/

(se parte, pegalo en el navegador)

También se explica como usarlo para autentificar postfix, webdav, etc.

el uso, esta concebido para ser la base de autentificación de todos los 
servicios susceptibles de autentificación.

Un saludo

BasaBuru


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Re: etch-lenny et sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Olivier K]

Salut Charles Plessy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ;
Le 11.09 (jeudi) à 04:34, tu as écrit :

 Xorg est devenu beaucoup plus intelligent. Si un ficher xorg.conf
 presque vide ne suffit pas pour une configuration jugée standard,
 alors cela vaut la peine d'ouvrir un rapport de bug.

D'accord. Dit comme ça, ça ressemble à un progrès ;-)

Ceci dit, comment ferait-on pour connaître maintenant les valeurs des
paramètres qui n'apparaissent plus dans xorg.conf ?

La commande xdpyinfo, par exemple, ne donne pas toutes ces valeurs.

[C'est peut-être un peu OT...]

Cordialement,

-- 
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Re: etch-lenny et sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[steve]

Bonjour,

Le 2008-09-11, à 08:10:13 +0200, Olivier K ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) a écrit :

 Lignes : 30
 
 Salut Charles Plessy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ;
 Le 11.09 (jeudi) à 04:34, tu as écrit :
 
  Xorg est devenu beaucoup plus intelligent. Si un ficher xorg.conf
  presque vide ne suffit pas pour une configuration jugée standard,
  alors cela vaut la peine d'ouvrir un rapport de bug.
 
 D'accord. Dit comme ça, ça ressemble à un progrès ;-)

Oui et non. Quand on trouve un xorg.conf à moitié vide, c'est pour le
moins déroutant au début.

 Ceci dit, comment ferait-on pour connaître maintenant les valeurs des
 paramètres qui n'apparaissent plus dans xorg.conf ?

Tu peux faire un 

Xorg -configure

pour obtenir un xorg.conf avec les options de base,

et pour les modelines, il faut utiliser l'outil gtf, par ex:

gtf 1280 800 60

Modeline 1280x800_60.00  83.46  1280 1344 1480 1680  800 801 804 828
-HSync +Vsync


et cette sortie est à mettre dans xorg.conf, dans la section Monitor.

Mais normalement, il n'y a pas besoin de faire ça avec du matériel
relativement récent.

Bonne journée,
Steve

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etch-lenny et sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Olivier K]

Bonjour,

Quand je lance

   sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

même après avoir réglé à basse la priorité des questions avec 

   sudo dpkg-reconfigure debconf

sur lenny, dpkg ne me pose pas du tout autant de questions que selon
mon souvenir sur etch.

Rien sur la profondeur des couleurs (si c'est bien le terme), rien sur
la résolution, ni même le choix du pilote (nv sous lenny gère ma carte
graphique, plus besoin du module propriétaire nvidia).

Par ailleurs, un cat -n /etc/X11/xorg.conf me montre un fichier
comportant bien peu de lignes. Aucune ligne de résolution, ni de ligne
faisant référence au driver nv.

Un collègue lance à ma demande la même commande sur sa machine, sous
lenny aussi. Son fichier xorg.conf, «complet» (datant de 2006) est
remplacé par un fichier minimal du genre du mien.

Cela me donne l'impression que le fonctionnement a changé entre etch
et lenny, mais je ne trouve pas...

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Re: etch-lenny et sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Charles Plessy]

Le Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 06:25:08PM +0200, Olivier K a écrit :
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
 
 sur lenny, dpkg ne me pose pas du tout autant de questions que selon
 mon souvenir sur etch.

Bonjour,

Xorg est devenu beaucoup plus intelligent. Si un ficher xorg.conf
presque vide ne suffit pas pour une configuration jugée standard, alors
cela vaut la peine d'ouvrir un rapport de bug.

Amicalement,

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Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japon

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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Salvador Garcia Z.]

Rodrigo Cortés escribió:

2008/8/21 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Rodrigo Cortés escribió:


2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  

Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.



Perdón pero los pasos que indicas instalan el módulo del driver nvidia
que se carga en el kernel (o me equivoco??)... entonces... para que
instalas luego el driver privativo???


  

El driver privativo lo cargo por que, los que estan en debian no me permiten
controlar o no se como controlar los floats y el SLI, para aprobechar al
maximo lo que he pagado por ella. Con los privativos le puedo llevar a que
me responda a 16x y ajustes de resolución de 32.
la tarjeta que tengo es esta:



Lo que trataba de decirte es que con la instalación mediante m-a a-i
instalas un driver que existe en los repositorios de debian, sin
embargo, si instalas el driver privativo te reemplazará el driver
instalado por el privativo, por eso, sólo basta con instalar el
privativo.

  
Si y no. Da la casualidad de que el driver privativo solo lo puedes 
cargar con el núcleo 2.6.18 y eso ya no existe, ya estamos en el 2.6.26, 
lo cual quiere decir que tendrías que copilar o buscar la manera de 
cargar un núcleo antiguo que muchas veces no, nos da el rendimiento que 
esperamos de nuestros ordenadores, con el 18 tengo problemas de usb y 
algunos de bios.

De esta manera el driver privativo entra en cualquier núcleo sin problemas.


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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Rodrigo Cortés]

2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.

Perdón pero los pasos que indicas instalan el módulo del driver nvidia
que se carga en el kernel (o me equivoco??)... entonces... para que
instalas luego el driver privativo???


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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Salvador Garcia Z.]

Rodrigo Cortés escribió:

2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.



Perdón pero los pasos que indicas instalan el módulo del driver nvidia
que se carga en el kernel (o me equivoco??)... entonces... para que
instalas luego el driver privativo???

  
El driver privativo lo cargo por que, los que estan en debian no me 
permiten controlar o no se como controlar los floats y el SLI, para 
aprobechar al maximo lo que he pagado por ella. Con los privativos le 
puedo llevar a que me responda a 16x y ajustes de resolución de 32.

la tarjeta que tengo es esta:

http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3969465CatId=1839

Por eso quiero sacar todo lo mas posible en referente a la aceleración.


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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

[Rodrigo Cortés]

2008/8/21 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Rodrigo Cortés escribió:

 2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.


 Perdón pero los pasos que indicas instalan el módulo del driver nvidia
 que se carga en el kernel (o me equivoco??)... entonces... para que
 instalas luego el driver privativo???



 El driver privativo lo cargo por que, los que estan en debian no me permiten
 controlar o no se como controlar los floats y el SLI, para aprobechar al
 maximo lo que he pagado por ella. Con los privativos le puedo llevar a que
 me responda a 16x y ajustes de resolución de 32.
 la tarjeta que tengo es esta:

Lo que trataba de decirte es que con la instalación mediante m-a a-i
instalas un driver que existe en los repositorios de debian, sin
embargo, si instalas el driver privativo te reemplazará el driver
instalado por el privativo, por eso, sólo basta con instalar el
privativo.


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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg [Solucionado]

[Jose G. Lopez]

2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Odair Augusto Trujillo wrote:

 Para la mezcla de kernel amd64 y sistema de 32 bits,
 http://www.espaciolinux.com/blogs-display-jid-1020.html

 Para poner el driver de nvidia dejar la sección Device así:

 Section Device
IdentifierTu tarjeta Nvidia
Drivernvidia
Option   AddARGBGLXVisuals True  Option   RenderAccel
 True
Option   AllowGLXWithComposite True
 EndSection

 --
 Al principio, el Hombre creó a Dios; y lo creó a su imagen y semejanza.
 Y el Hombre dio a Dios multitud de nombres, y el poder de que fuera el
 Señor de toda la tierra cuando al Hombre le conviniere.

 La opcion que me funciono con Nvidia fue la siguiente:

 #apt-get install module-assistant nvidia-kernel-common
 #module-assistant auto-install nvidia
 #m-a a-i nvidia
 #depmod -a
 #modprobe nvidia
 #apt-get install nvidia-glx

 Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.


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Gracias Salvador, ya lo soluciné. Pero no edité el xorg.conf para
meterle el driver nvidia, en vez de eso instalé nvidia-xconfig como
se comenta en el wiki y el mismo te lo genera.
# nvidia-xconfig
El problema es que al reiniciar las X me dí cuenta que había perdido
la distribución del teclado (es); me había eliminado la línea:

Option  XkbLayout es

La volví a poner y todo perfecto.
De nuevo gracias.

Salu2

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Re: Error al hacer dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg [Solucionado]

[Salvador Garcia Z.]

Jose G. Lopez escribió:

2008/8/16 Salvador Garcia Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Odair Augusto Trujillo wrote:


Para la mezcla de kernel amd64 y sistema de 32 bits,
http://www.espaciolinux.com/blogs-display-jid-1020.html

Para poner el driver de nvidia dejar la sección Device así:

Section Device
   IdentifierTu tarjeta Nvidia
   Drivernvidia
   Option   AddARGBGLXVisuals True  Option   RenderAccel
True
   Option   AllowGLXWithComposite True
EndSection

--
Al principio, el Hombre creó a Dios; y lo creó a su imagen y semejanza.
Y el Hombre dio a Dios multitud de nombres, y el poder de que fuera el
Señor de toda la tierra cuando al Hombre le conviniere.
  

La opcion que me funciono con Nvidia fue la siguiente:

#apt-get install module-assistant nvidia-kernel-common
#module-assistant auto-install nvidia
#m-a a-i nvidia
#depmod -a
#modprobe nvidia
#apt-get install nvidia-glx

Después metes el driver privativo y todo va de lujo.


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Gracias Salvador, ya lo soluciné. Pero no edité el xorg.conf para
meterle el driver nvidia, en vez de eso instalé nvidia-xconfig como
se comenta en el wiki y el mismo te lo genera.
# nvidia-xconfig
El problema es que al reiniciar las X me dí cuenta que había perdido
la distribución del teclado (es); me había eliminado la línea:

Option  XkbLayout es

La volví a poner y todo perfecto.
De nuevo gracias.

Salu2

  
Bien yo he cargado el driver de Nvidia privativo después de cargar los 
módulos oficiales de la distro por que tengo una PCIE y para sacar todo 
el jugo a esa tarjeta es necesario, puesto que le puedo llevar hasta 16X 
de aceleración, con los que están en la distro no es posible aun, o no 
se como.



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