Re: lilo, linux and win95
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Stern) writes: > I'm saying that not only can a logical be > created without being created within an extended partition, but that it > can exist without an extended partition, or at least outside of any > extended partition displayed by fdisk. Hmm. I haven't actually had many opportunities to repartition, so I think I really need to read some documentation, and experiment a bit, before I can say anything about this. -- Carey Evans http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/ GNU GPL: "The Source will be with you... always." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On 18 Mar 1998 21:18:15 +1200, Carey Evans wrote: > I don't think so. My PC at work, using IBM's BootManager (available > in OS/2 and Partition Magic) has: > > - lilo.conf - > boot=/dev/hda6 > root=/dev/hda6 > ... > - > > The normal MBR probably can't load this though. I don't have enough experience using the MBR for the lilo boot sector to respond directly to this. I believe the lilo "manual" document was rewritten middle-late last year(June-September), and that there used to be some citations of unusual practices (I know there are still some good examples in there, but that's not what I'm talking about), so I don't doubt that this is possible. There was also a wish list which had more interesting ideas. Unless I've misinterpretted the lilo documentation (which coincidentally may not be up to date), your configuration seems atleast atypical, and not within the scope of documented behavior. However, you're a Linux god, and I'm a mere mortal, so for anyone reading this, consider the source! :-) > I don't think it's possible to put a logical partition on a disk > without it being in an extended partiton. fdisk might let you create > the logical partition without explicitly creating the extended > partition, but it has to do it anyway. You're inferring that fdisk implicitly creates an extended partition if a logical partition is specified, but no extended partition exists, or the logical partition cylinders are not within the boundaries of the extended partition, and that it is displayed in fdisk? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that not only can a logical be created without being created within an extended partition, but that it can exist without an extended partition, or at least outside of any extended partition displayed by fdisk. It's been quite a while since I've experimented with this, and I don't have a spare drive to fdisk right now, so I can't tell you how many logical partitions can be created without, or outside of, an extended partition, but even one seems inappropriate. However, since I've never seen mention of this in the fdisk documentation, I can't say for sure. -- David Stern -- http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Stern) writes: > hda5 (or sda5) and above are logical partitions. Logical partitions > cannot be used to store the lilo boot sector. I don't think so. My PC at work, using IBM's BootManager (available in OS/2 and Partition Magic) has: - lilo.conf - boot=/dev/hda6 root=/dev/hda6 ... - The normal MBR probably can't load this though. > For a reason I've not determined, Linux fdisk may allow logical > partitions to be created and used without first creating an extended > partition. I don't think it's possible to put a logical partition on a disk without it being in an extended partiton. fdisk might let you create the logical partition without explicitly creating the extended partition, but it has to do it anyway. -- Carey Evans http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/ GNU GPL: "The Source will be with you... always." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
While most of this has been said previously, it has not been brought together and it has been less than clear at times, so I'm combining what others and myself have stated into a hopefully complete and concise summary. hda5 (or sda5) and above are logical partitions. Logical partitions cannot be used to store the lilo boot sector. For a reason I've not determined, Linux fdisk may allow logical partitions to be created and used without first creating an extended partition. I think this behavior is incorrect. My understanding is that logical partitions should be created within an extended partition, that any of the possible four primary partitions may created as extended partitions, and further that up to a possible total of 63 partitions for hda (ide) drives, and 15 partitions for sda (scsi) drives may be created. Extended partitions of the first hard disk may be used to store the lilo boot sector using the -b param, however not many programs support booting from an extended partition. For those programs that do support this option, ($ystem Commander may be one, www.v-com.com ), one or more logical partitions may effectively be booted from the extended partition lilo boot sector. /usr/doc/lilo/Manual.txt.gz - The LILO boot sector is designed to be usable as a partition boot sector. (I.e. there is room for the partition table.) Therefore, the LILO boot sector can be stored at the following locations: - boot sector of a Linux floppy disk. (/dev/fd0, ...) - MBR of the first hard disk. (/dev/hda, /dev/sda, ...) - boot sector of a primary Linux file system partition on the first hard disk. (/dev/hda1, ...) - partition boot sector of an extended partition on the first hard disk. (/dev/hda1, ...)* * Most FDISK-type programs don't believe in booting from an extended partition and refuse to activate it. LILO is accompanied by a simple program (activate) that doesn't have this restriction. Linux fdisk also supports activating extended partitions. -- David Stern -- http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, it was written: > > > /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) > > > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux > > > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap > > > > From the numbering above, I can surmise that you installed linux into an > > Extended DOS partition. > > No, that's apparentally standard config. It was installed straight into a > linux partition. Yes, but hda5 (and above) are the equivalent of DOS extended partitions (or to be more precise, DOS logical partitions). the fact it is a "linux" or "linux native" partiton is only refering to it's system ID (0x83). this ID helps linux recognise what type of partition it is. Linux/Swap/DOS etc... Even in linux, these partition's are called logical partition's. For a better explanation, take a look at the partition mini-HOWTO, under the section "What is a partition anyway?" Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- If at first you don't succeed, you must be using Windows. Get Linux! --- Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
To all that replied to my LILO, Win95 and Linux problem..thanks very much for responding to my plea for help. Much appreciated! :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
** Reply to note from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:38:28 -0500 (EST) > > /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) > > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux > > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap > > From the numbering above, I can surmise that you installed linux into an > Extended DOS partition. No, that's apparentally standard config. It was installed straight into a linux partition. > - MBR of the first hard disk. (/dev/hda, ...) > - boot sector of a primary Linux file system partition on the first hard > disk. (/dev/hda1, ...) > - partition boot sector of an extended partition on the first hard disk. > (/dev/hda1, ...)* Tried all these and she no work with LILO.however I did solve the problem by installing the OS/2 Boot Manager program. I had worked on trying to install it with LILO for pretty close to three days on and offwith Boot Manager installed, I was able to do a re-install of both Win95 and linux in about an hour or so. :-) Thanks for your inputmuch appreciated. :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > howdy all.:-) > > Just installed Debian linux and win95 on a system and wish to have dual boot > > system with LILO as boot manager. > > cfdisk shows: > > /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap >From the numbering above, I can surmise that you installed linux into an Extended DOS partition. > > If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer: > > Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes > Install a master boot record on /dev/hda yes > Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes > > then LILO will generate the following error message: > > 5: not a valid partition number (1-4) > > > If I answer yes to the first two questions but no for the third the system > can only boot with Win95to boot linux I must use my emergency disk. > > Any suggestions on why this is happening? > >From the LILO manual ... LILO boot sector is designed to be usable as a partition boot sector. (I.e. there is room for the partition table.) Therefore, the LILO boot sector can be stored at the following locations: - boot sector of a Linux floppy disk. (/dev/fd0, ...) - MBR of the first hard disk. (/dev/hda, ...) - boot sector of a primary Linux file system partition on the first hard disk. (/dev/hda1, ...) - partition boot sector of an extended partition on the first hard disk. (/dev/hda1, ...)* * Most FDISK-type programs don't believe in booting from an extended partition and refuse to activate it. LILO is accompanied by a simple program (activate) that doesn't have this restriction. Linux fdisk also supports activating extended partitions. It _can't_ be stored at any of the following locations: - boot sector of a non-Linux floppy disk or primary partition. - a Linux swap partition. - boot sector of a logical partition in an extended partition.* - on the second hard disk. (Unless for backup installations, if the current first disk will be removed or disabled, or if some other boot loader is used, that is capable of loading boot sectors from other drives.) * LILO can be forced to put the boot sector on such a partition by using the -b option or the BOOT variable. However, only few programs that operate as master boot records support booting from a logical partition. ... Now based on the above information, you need to run the _Linux_ version of Fdisk (/sbin/fdisk) and make the extended partition (/dev/hda2) active. Other members of this list use extended partitions for Linux. My personal perference is to use primary partitions only. Without starting over from scratch, as root, you should try tweaking the lilo.conf file by hand and running lilo afterward. Reboot and check. As always, keep that bootable floppy handy just in case 8-) Perhaps others can offer tips on how you can configure the lilo.conf file for your particular setup. -- -= Sent by Debian 1.3 Linux =- Thomas Kocourek KD4CIK @[EMAIL PROTECTED]@westgac3.dragon.com Remove @_@ for correct Email address --... ...-- ... -.. . -.- -.. - -.-. .. -.- -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) > > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux > > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap > > > > If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer: > > > > Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes > > Install a master boot record on /dev/hadayes > > Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes > > > > then LILO will generate the following error message: > > > > 5: not a valid partition number (1-4) > > If I am not mistaken: > 1) you can not set a logical partition as the active partition. > 2) The first four partitions are reserved for primary partitions. > 3) You can not change the disk partitions without cfdisk and freinds. I agree with you on those.. except one of the first four partitions can be an extended partition (contains logical partitions) to have more than four partition's total... Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- WinErr: 007 System price error - Inadequate money spent on hardware --- Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, David Stern wrote: > > > There doesn't need to be hda2, hda3 AND hda4. There does need to be ONE > If that is the case one of them apears to be missiing The partition with internal logical partition's (hda5 and above) is sometimes not shown on a partition listing. In this case it would be hda2. A quick check, hda2 is shown on my machine in fdisk with the "p" command, but it is not shown in cfdisk's listing. > > What happened to CC:'ing the person who wrote the remarks in question? > For the life of me, I cannae imagine what happened to that I think the original poster's address was [EMAIL PROTECTED] bit hard to CC to it I see he/she has fixed it.. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) --- Don't worry. I backed it up to the RAM disk yesterday. --- Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
> dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap > > If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer: > > Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes > Install a master boot record on /dev/hadayes > Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes > > then LILO will generate the following error message: > > 5: not a valid partition number (1-4) If I am not mistaken: 1) you can not set a logical partition as the active partition. 2) The first four partitions are reserved for primary partitions. 3) You can not change the disk partitions without cfdisk and freinds. -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, David Stern wrote: > There doesn't need to be hda2, hda3 AND hda4. There does need to be ONE If that is the case one of them apears to be missiing > What happened to CC:'ing the person who wrote the remarks in question? For the life of me, I cannae imagine what happened to that Regards Jon. -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, David Stern wrote: > Someone responded to me personally: > > David Stern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 3/14/98 11:44 AM > > > > > >If you pick the mbr, say goodbye to your win95 bootloader, because lilo > > >will overwrite the win95 bootloader (you won't be able to boot win95). > > >Actually, there should be one backup copy to restore from. However, if > > >you keep each os'es bootloader on their own partition, you can just > > >change the active (bootable) partition to get the other os, should lilo > > >fail for any reason. This, you can safely and easily do with either > > >linux or dos fdisk, and this eliminates the problem of one boot record > > >overwriting the other. In lilo.conf, add: other=/dev/hda2 label=dos table=/dev/hda loader=/boot/chain.b And run lilo. Note, change /dev/hda2 to your win95 partition and label to win95 if you want. Brandon - Brandon Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "We all know linux is great... it PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED] does infinite loops in 5 seconds" Phone: (757) 221-4847 --Linus Torvalds -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
Someone responded to me personally: > David Stern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 3/14/98 11:44 AM > > > >If you pick the mbr, say goodbye to your win95 bootloader, because lilo > >will overwrite the win95 bootloader (you won't be able to boot win95). > >Actually, there should be one backup copy to restore from. However, if > >you keep each os'es bootloader on their own partition, you can just > >change the active (bootable) partition to get the other os, should lilo > >fail for any reason. This, you can safely and easily do with either > >linux or dos fdisk, and this eliminates the problem of one boot record > >overwriting the other. > That's not true... You can install on the MBR and have LILO boot to > Windows. I had my computer set up that way for several months before > Windows ate itself and I decided I didn't want to reinstall it. Much > easier than messing with partition maps every time you want to boot to > another OS. This is a good point that deserves public mention. A sworn witness has testified that it's possible, and I recall it in the docs, so apparently it IS possible to let win95's boot loader and lilo's both reside on the MBR. Just don't ask me how. Everytime I tried it, windows was unbootable until I restored the MBR. After many restorations, I had chance to find the backup copy no longer valid on several occasions (requiring me to reinstall winNT), and after tiring of this, I ultimately submitted defeat. The part about running each os'es boot loader on it's own partition (not shown) still works quite well. -- David Stern -- http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
> Sorry but, what on earth happened to /dev/hda2, /dev/hda3 and /dev/hda4 > ?? > and what is the bit about > > >> Install a master boot record on /dev/hada > > what is /dev/h[a]da ??, shouldn't that be /dev/hda[X] ? > > --Jon. There doesn't need to be hda2, hda3 AND hda4. There does need to be ONE of them, because that will comprise All of the logical partitions, unless I suddently forgot everything about logical partitions. (I've done some weird things with linux fdisk that have led me to question myself on this point, but I think I'm correct.) Regarding "hada", I took that as a typo.. What happened to CC:'ing the person who wrote the remarks in question? David Stern -- http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lilo, linux and win95
Sorry but, what on earth happened to /dev/hda2, /dev/hda3 and /dev/hda4 ??
and what is the bit about
>> Install a master boot record on /dev/hada
what is /dev/h[a]da ??, shouldn't that be /dev/hda[X] ?
--Jon.
> >
> > system with LILO as boot manager.
> >
> > cfdisk shows:
> >
> > /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it)
> > /dev/hda5 Logical Linux
> > /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap
> >
> > If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer:
> >
> > Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes
> > Install a master boot record on /dev/hadayes
> > Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes
>
>
> If you pick the mbr, say goodbye to your win95 bootloader, because lilo
> will overwrite the win95 bootloader (you won't be able to boot win95).
> Actually, there should be one backup copy to restore from. However, if
> you keep each os'es bootloader on their own partition, you can just
> change the active (bootable) partition to get the other os, should lilo
> fail for any reason. This, you can safely and easily do with either
> linux or dos fdisk, and this eliminates the problem of one boot record
> overwriting the other.
> I haven't tried it yet, but there's also a "chos" ("choose OS") package
> in hamm that is supposed to make a nice menu at boot. Undoubtedly,
> there are numerous other possibilities, as well.
> The best lilo reference I found (though somewhat long and terse):
> /usr/doc/lilo/Manual.txt.gz
>
> There should also be a number of mini-howto's on booting possibilities:
> /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+DOS+Win95+OS2.gz
> /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+FreeBSD.gz
> /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+NT-Loader.gz
> /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+Win95.gz
> /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Loadlin+Win95.gz
>
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Re: lilo, linux and win95
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:18:13 PST, wrote:
> howdy all.:-)
>
> Just installed Debian linux and win95 on a system and wish to have dual boot
>
> system with LILO as boot manager.
>
> cfdisk shows:
>
> /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it)
> /dev/hda5 Logical Linux
> /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap
>
> If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer:
>
> Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes
> Install a master boot record on /dev/hadayes
> Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes
I'm not intimately familiar with liloconfig (I think that's what you're
using), but you can only have one lilo boot record, so take your pick
-- either lilo will reside on the master boot record -OR- on the linux
"root" partition (/dev/hda5). Whichever partition you put the boot
record on, you need to set active.
If you pick the mbr, say goodbye to your win95 bootloader, because lilo
will overwrite the win95 bootloader (you won't be able to boot win95).
Actually, there should be one backup copy to restore from. However, if
you keep each os'es bootloader on their own partition, you can just
change the active (bootable) partition to get the other os, should lilo
fail for any reason. This, you can safely and easily do with either
linux or dos fdisk, and this eliminates the problem of one boot record
overwriting the other.
I haven't tried it yet, but there's also a "chos" ("choose OS") package
in hamm that is supposed to make a nice menu at boot. Undoubtedly,
there are numerous other possibilities, as well.
The best lilo reference I found (though somewhat long and terse):
/usr/doc/lilo/Manual.txt.gz
There should also be a number of mini-howto's on booting possibilities:
/usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+DOS+Win95+OS2.gz
/usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+FreeBSD.gz
/usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+NT-Loader.gz
/usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Linux+Win95.gz
/usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Loadlin+Win95.gz
--
David Stern
--
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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lilo, linux and win95
howdy all.:-) Just installed Debian linux and win95 on a system and wish to have dual boot system with LILO as boot manager. cfdisk shows: /dev/hda1 Boot Primary Dos FAT16 (has Win95 installed on it) /dev/hda5 Logical Linux /dev/hda6 Logical Linux Swap If I run LILO and tell it to generate a new /etc/lilo.conf and then answer: Install a partition boot record to boot linux from /dev/hda5?yes Install a master boot record on /dev/hadayes Make /dev/hda5 the active partition? yes then LILO will generate the following error message: 5: not a valid partition number (1-4) If I answer yes to the first two questions but no for the third the system can only boot with Win95to boot linux I must use my emergency disk. Any suggestions on why this is happening? Question: Should the partitions have been installed as hda1, hda2 and hda3 or is the hda1, hda5 and hda6 sequence normal? Question: If the sequence is not normal, this may explain why LILO is barfing; is there anyway to change the Name(s) hda5 and hda6 to hda2 and hda3 without having to run fdisk all over again and therefore having to do a complete re-install of the linux partitions and OS? your comments on this problem would be much appreciated (and that's putting it mildly at this particular point in time after 2 days of trying to figure this problem out!! )...thanks. :-) -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
