Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities
Hi Devin, On 3/20/22 18:09, Devin Prater wrote: * Currently, Debian backports is how people with disabilities can get the most up-to-date accessibility fixes and improvements while remaining on a stable base system. For example, the newest version of the Orca screen reader, with all of its fixes, and newest version of ATSPI, the thing that makes Orca able to talk to applications. Would you be willing to entertain the idea of moving those updates directly to Debian stable? This is up to the Debian Stable release team to decide, and that's not something the DPL can override. The TC or a GR could. But best would be to use the normal way: be convincing when discussing with the release team. * In many desktop environments, a user cannot use their assistive technologies effectively unless they find and check a box enabling the use of assistive technologies. Do you think that this is good and fair to users? The DPL can give you his opinion, but even with super DPL power, he cannot act on the issue better than any other DD, IMO... At best, the DPL could influence others and push them to work on the problem. Just an idea: how about we create a day per year, where all DDs are invited to work on accessibility issues? I'm not volunteering for organizing such a day, just giving the idea for the accessibility team to pick-up... I'd volunteer a day per year, if I'm given a list of tasks I can act on! Cheers, Thomas Goirand (zigo)
Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities
Hi, On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:09:24 -0500 Devin Prater wrote: > * Have you heard of the Debian Accessibility group? Sorry, no. It means that there's an opportunity to people like me can know it more if the Debian Accessibility group could show their duties and activities :) > * Currently, Debian backports is how people with disabilities can get the > most up-to-date accessibility fixes and improvements while remaining on a > stable base system. For example, the newest version of the Orca screen > reader, with all of its fixes, and newest version of ATSPI, the thing that > makes Orca able to talk to applications. Would you be willing to > entertain the idea of moving those updates directly to Debian stable? Yes, as I said in my platform. > > Provide better Debian “Experience” for our contributors and users. > > > > We are developing Debian a lot day by day, but it seems that won’t reach > > most of our users. I’m not sure what is the better way to give more values > > (providing easy access to testing/unstable in d-i? more updates to stable?), > > but it’s wonderful if we can. We need some coordination to achieve this, but worth trying. > * How would you present Debian to a group of people with disabilities? What > reasons would you give them for why they should consider Debian? Honestly, I don't have enough information for that. It means that YOU people with disabilities need to show what's good/bad currently in Debian and what should be done in the future, then discuss with others. Something clear to you is sometimes not clear to me, please tell us :) > * In many desktop environments, a user cannot use their assistive > technologies effectively unless they find and check a box enabling the use > of assistive technologies. Do you think that this is good and fair to users? Yes and No. I'm Japanese and not good at English, so want to use Japanese in the desktop environment but I should choose Japanese in the installer that shows in English. It's fair since most people can recognize English more than Japanese. There is some limitation in the user interface and prefer majority is reasonable. However, adding Accessibility software by default is not hard, IMHO. Installing Accessibility by default and setting "minimum desktop" checkbox for people who don't need it would be better (of course, it also needs some coordination to do so). -- Hideki Yamane
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Gunnar Wolf wrote on 20/03/2022 at 17:44:44+0100: > Felix Lechner dijo [Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 06:49:50AM -0700]: >> Hi Gunnar, >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:47 PM Gunnar Wolf wrote: >> > >> > This year I think I will break my usual >> > practice, and vote a certain DPL candidate below NotA :-\ >> >> With that statement, you potentially committed two >> infractions—depending on where you live. >> >> First, revealing a vote is widely looked down upon. Why would you do >> it other than to sway people who have not made up their minds? It's >> why some folks desire to have secret votes. Your conduct might also be >> illegal in some places. [1] > > Debian is not a country. Our elections are not bound by national or > state-level electoral laws. > >> Second, you expressed a preference among candidates while holding >> public office. [2] That is a big gray area, but restrictions exist in >> the US [3] and, to some extent, in Germany. [4] On a Debian list, you >> are an office holder with expanded authorities. Would it not be better >> to act moderately compared to membership, on average? > > I am just a Debian Developer, just as you are. I happen to have > received some delegations... but that's an internal issue of an > organization -- a not-legally-incorporated organization even. > > If you plan on becoming a DPL, I suggest you to look into > understanding the difference between the role of the Debian Project > Leader and that of a President, Prime Minister, Supreme Dictator, or > something like that. I'm sorry to add to the bad atmosphere, but reading Felix' prose and this subthread, I hope he doesn't ever become a DPL. -- PEB signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Hi Jonathan, On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 11:09 AM Jonathan Carter wrote: > > How would you gauge that, Felix? It's impractical to have a vote every > time a decision is to be made, which is why voters want to know how a > potential DPL would make choices so that they can make an informed > choice on who to vote for. Even if you end up setting up that army of > committees (I can't imagine all the bureaucracy that will come with), > you would still have to make frequent decisions unlikely covered by > those committees. So, again, how would you gauge what project members > perceive as proper? What can I say? Rule by decree is more efficient around the world. I tried to explain my vision for more checks and balances in my response to Richard Laager [1] who asked the question first. I believe that a civic system, however simple, approximates the will of the people to a greater degree. No referendums are needed. Referendums wouldn't solve anything. We are a direct democracy that isn't, because people are too afraid of voting. We should give folks another way to take charge. As to the level of bureaucracy, the collective process we use presently is probably even less efficient. A distributed system, on the other hand, would reduce the reading burden on the mailing lists. Many problems would be handled by experienced committee members, who can make decisions for the project at set times but also easily revisit them. Right now, we can hardly do either. Please allow me to add that I admire your work as DPL. You have done a marvelous job for two years, and will also give the project your best in your third term. I hope you adopt some of my ideas when you are re-elected. Thank you! Kind regards, Felix Lechner [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2022/03/msg00174.html
Re: To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities
Hi Devin, On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:09 AM Devin Prater wrote: > > I'd like to ask a few questions of all candidates for Debian leadership. > As a person who is blind, these are of significant importance to me. > I hope that, in asking these questions and maybe sparking a > discussion on these topics, attention can be focused on Debian's > role in the lives of people with disabilities, and the companies and > organizations that use it. > > * Have you heard of the Debian Accessibility group? > * If so, have you worked with them in the past, or are you currently > working with them? > * Currently, Debian backports is how people with disabilities can > get the most up-to-date accessibility fixes and improvements > while remaining on a stable base system. For example, the > newest version of the Orca screen reader, with all of its fixes, and > newest version of ATSPI, the thing that makes Orca able to talk to > applications. Would you be willing to entertain the idea of moving > those updates directly to Debian stable? > * How would you present Debian to a group of people with > disabilities? What reasons would you give them for why they > should consider Debian? > * In many desktop environments, a user cannot use their assistive > technologies effectively unless they find and check a box > enabling the use of assistive technologies. Do you think that > this is good and fair to users? I have some modest vision challenges myself with thirteen diopters on both sides since my youth, but my risk is the detachment of both retinas due to the shape of my eyeballs. Fortunately, a correction via glasses has worked well so far. My condition is one reason why I live in Fremont, which is also home to California's School for the Blind. The entire city is equipped for the visually impaired (and also for the deaf). If I go blind one day, I will still be able to go shopping. I have heard of the Debian Accessibility group, but I do not recall having worked with you or your team on accessibility items. As a fellow user of the 'stable' base system (which I believe is somewhat uncommon inside Debian) I backport nearly all of my packages to bullseye. I would generally like to find a workflow to make backports more common overall. As project leader, I would support the Accessibility Group in any need, with high priority. You fall under a specially protected class. I would furthermore not hesitate to push for the use of project funds on your behalf, if that's not happening already. When asked to present to a group of people with disabilities, I would prefer to do so by your side. In advance, I would try to find a suitable position in our organization for any person agreeable to the Accessibility team (but subject to a confirmation by the appointments committee). I do not believe any delegation for better accessibility currently exists. I would then point to that "Accessibility Czar" as a reason why people with disabilities should use Debian. As for finding a box, it seems a terrible way to enable assistive technologies. How do you find it when you are blind? Maybe some desktop environments try to enable a few of those tools by default, but that calls for a technical solution. I pledge to work with you to improve the availability of accessibility tools in Debian. Thank you for bringing Debian to people in whose lives it can make a real difference! Kind regards, Felix Lechner P.S. Hi everyone, please join #meetfelix on OFTC. I hope to get to know you better!
To all candidates: Debian and people with disabilities
Good day, I'd like to ask a few questions of all candidates for Debian leadership. As a person who is blind, these are of significant importance to me. I hope that, in asking these questions and maybe sparking a discussion on these topics, attention can be focused on Debian's role in the lives of people with disabilities, and the companies and organizations that use it. * Have you heard of the Debian Accessibility group? * If so, have you worked with them in the past, or are you currently working with them? * Currently, Debian backports is how people with disabilities can get the most up-to-date accessibility fixes and improvements while remaining on a stable base system. For example, the newest version of the Orca screen reader, with all of its fixes, and newest version of ATSPI, the thing that makes Orca able to talk to applications. Would you be willing to entertain the idea of moving those updates directly to Debian stable? * How would you present Debian to a group of people with disabilities? What reasons would you give them for why they should consider Debian? * In many desktop environments, a user cannot use their assistive technologies effectively unless they find and check a box enabling the use of assistive technologies. Do you think that this is good and fair to users? Thanks so much for the answers. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com
Another round of open questions
Hi Andriy and others, Andriy Grytsenko wrote: > Thanks for the comment. It is so, exactly. The war came to an active > state, Russian nazis launch missiles over our country, trying to conquer > and set up marionette government. Our Army proven to be good enough to > fight them but many civilians already dead after attacks which include > prohibited weapons such as thermobaric bombs. Sadly. > Thanks a lot, I am more or less safe, my city district is far away from > any major points so I hear explosions (as our air defense forces safely > shut down all the incoming missiles from Russia) far away from here all > the time. And I hope for war to be ended soon as Russians do eventually > have their forces eliminated. No help is needed for now. > All you can do, I think, is to pray and to help our forces with weapons, > which many countries already do actually. How are you? Hope you're fine. Have you received all the weapons and solders we already sent you? Yavorovsky military training ground tragedy is painful, but one should learn from it. By the way, if Russian forces are all eliminated by now, why do you ask for more weapon, do you want to kill all Russian civilians too? And here are some questions to DPL candidates: How do you plan to address Russian aggression? Will Russian be banned from Debian development? Will you allow Russian users to use Debian? Do you plan to add some funny jokes for Russian users, like as follows: - https://github.com/medikoo/es5-ext/commit/28de285ed433b45113 - https://github.com/vuejs/vue-cli/issues/7054 - https://github.com/RIAEvangelist/node-ipc/issues/233 And some more questions for a wider audience: 1. Have you heard about Neonazism ( Azov Battalion, Aider) in Ukraine? 2. Have you ever heard them saying that they gonna kill all Russian speaking people? 3. Have you ever heard Indian media showing Ukrainian leaders saying they will send nukes to Moscow if they get in Nato? 4. Do you know about Donbas? 5. Have you ever heard 14000 Russian speaking people were killed In Donbas by Ukrainian Army? 6. Have you ever seen the mass grave of Russian speaking children In Donbas? 7. Have you heard the speech of Petro Poroshenko ex President of Ukarine where he said, the only place for Russian speaking children In Donbas is a bomb shelter? 8. Have you seen the selfies of Ukrainian army with the missiles dedicated to the children In Donbas before bombing in the Kindergarten and schools. (On those missiles it was written "All the best is meant for children".) 9. Do you know about the ideological leader of "independent" Ukraine, Stepan Bandera? He was a war criminal and his team killed more than 850 thousands jews, 220 thousands polish and 400 thousands Russians? And now he is praised as a hero in Ukraine? How do I know this? I speak and understand Russian. I can understand spoken Ukrainian language as well. Moreover, I have friends and relatives who had flee from Donbas region in order to save their lives. With no regards, Daniel Pocock
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Hi Richard, On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 7:53 PM Richard Laager wrote: > > This is a complex topic, but in broad strokes, the concept of having > more people involved seems reasonable to me. But I fear that the idea > and the reality may be different. How do you plan to find all the people > to sit on these committees? Have you found some already? > > > that enjoy broad community support. > > That is, of course, a great goal. Do you have any specifics to offer > about how to achieve that? > > How would you handle contentious topics? The benefits of greater community involvement require fewer people than you might think (but hopefully a growing number). I'll try to illustrate that below. As project leader, my greatest concern would be to lend my own decisions some measure of democratic legitimacy. Let's take disbursements, for example. I would not be comfortable granting financial requests, other than on an emergency basis, without some type of community review. I might ask you, Richard, to serve on my Disbursements Committee together with someone I perceive as an equally strong person but otherwise different from you in some way. A small Appointments Committee could help me figure out who would be a good counterweight. In your case, I might approach Daniel Kahn Gillmor, who was copied as a courtesy. (Sorry Daniel, it's all hypothetical.) Anyone unhappy with Debian's disbursements could feed supplemental information to either one of you, who would then confront the other. Your meeting is open to the public. The threshold for community involvement is low, especially for folks afraid to write to the lists. For contentious topics, the debate over disbursements would automatically be compartmentalized to your tiny committee without burdening the entire project. There is no need to write to d-devel (or to threaten to do so) unless some outrageous conduct deserves broader attention. Neither would there be a need for a General Resolution, or the all too popular threat of one. The moderating effect grows with the size of your committee. The overall temperature of the project would also go down. We already do something similar with our technical teams. In summary: Yes, you are right. The reality will be different, but no one is perfect. As for finding the volunteers, my experience is that people will contribute if they can help control their own destiny. In a group, everyone only has to do a tiny part for the whole thing to get better! Jonathan would know how much time he spends deliberating over monthly disbursements. A committee with modest experience would probably take twice as long. Kind regards, Felix Lechner P.S. Hi everyone, please join #meetfelix on OFTC. I hope to get to know you better!
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Felix Lechner dijo [Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 06:49:50AM -0700]: > Hi Gunnar, > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:47 PM Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > > > This year I think I will break my usual > > practice, and vote a certain DPL candidate below NotA :-\ > > With that statement, you potentially committed two > infractions—depending on where you live. > > First, revealing a vote is widely looked down upon. Why would you do > it other than to sway people who have not made up their minds? It's > why some folks desire to have secret votes. Your conduct might also be > illegal in some places. [1] Debian is not a country. Our elections are not bound by national or state-level electoral laws. > Second, you expressed a preference among candidates while holding > public office. [2] That is a big gray area, but restrictions exist in > the US [3] and, to some extent, in Germany. [4] On a Debian list, you > are an office holder with expanded authorities. Would it not be better > to act moderately compared to membership, on average? I am just a Debian Developer, just as you are. I happen to have received some delegations... but that's an internal issue of an organization -- a not-legally-incorporated organization even. If you plan on becoming a DPL, I suggest you to look into understanding the difference between the role of the Debian Project Leader and that of a President, Prime Minister, Supreme Dictator, or something like that.
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Hi Tiago, On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 7:56 PM Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: > > I have to say I feel really troubled by reading this. It's hard to believe > that > a candidate for DPL addresses a legitimate and quite sensitive question with > such a rhetorical passive-aggressive borderline-bullying response. > > Well, at least it makes the voting easier for me. It was not a rhetorical question. Molly posted here three times regardless of any sensitivity. Each time I answered reluctantly, and in the abstract. After Steve McIntire's push to provide financial assistance, however, I realized that Molly's question may have been more than hypothetical. With my counter-question I hoped to clarify her request, because my answer would change. I would be prepared to provide some continuity of government, even if I personally disagree with actions taken before I was elected. (For example, to preserve the priority of a claim.) The degree depends on each case—again making any details ineligible to discuss here. In view of Molly's later assertion that she "didn't mention financial assistance or pursuing harassment claims in court," [1] I am no longer sure how to understand her original question. [2] I am sorry I was unable to provide a satisfactory answer. Kind regards, Felix Lechner [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2022/03/msg00160.html [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2022/03/msg00146.html
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Felix Lechner, 2022-03-20 09:50 -0400: > Hi Gunnar, > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:47 PM Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > > > This year I think I will break my usual > > practice, and vote a certain DPL candidate below NotA :-\ +1 > With that statement, you potentially committed two > infractions—depending on where you live. > > First, revealing a vote is widely looked down upon. Why would you do > it other than to sway people who have not made up their minds? It's > why some folks desire to have secret votes. Your conduct might also be > illegal in some places. [1] Hmm. Given that you live in California, I'm incredibly surprised that you've never seen a campaign sign (for or against a candidate) in someone's lawn before. Taowa
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
> That is a big gray area, but restrictions exist in > the US [3] The Hatch Act only applies to Employees of the United States Federal Government from engaging in political activity using their official position (in the case of a regular, and not restricted federal employee). You can't engage in political activity at work to people seeking government services, for example, but you can (in both cases) express an opinion on your personal social media, or even run for nonpartisan office! You can even campaign against a candidate on your personal time. This hot take is exceptionally bad and your characterization of the rules have NO recognizable relation to reality. Debian is also *NOT* a Government (you'll be forgiven for confusing this fact because people seem insistent they have some sort of first amendment right within the project), and we have no such election related rules. If the project wants to make a "hatch act", you're welcome to propose a constitutional amendment. Now I'm wondering about my vote order and placement of NOTA too... Paul -- :wq
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Hi Gunnar, On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:47 PM Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > This year I think I will break my usual > practice, and vote a certain DPL candidate below NotA :-\ With that statement, you potentially committed two infractions—depending on where you live. First, revealing a vote is widely looked down upon. Why would you do it other than to sway people who have not made up their minds? It's why some folks desire to have secret votes. Your conduct might also be illegal in some places. [1] Second, you expressed a preference among candidates while holding public office. [2] That is a big gray area, but restrictions exist in the US [3] and, to some extent, in Germany. [4] On a Debian list, you are an office holder with expanded authorities. Would it not be better to act moderately compared to membership, on average? Kind regards, Felix Lechner [1] https://www.vox.com/21523858/ballot-selfies-state-rules [2] https://www.debian.org/intro/organization [3] for example on the federal level, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act [4] in German, https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/650184/57e48f43ca79df7039003aff9850f8c9/WD-6-045-19-pdf-data.pdf
Re: Question to all candidates: how is Debian doing?
On 17/03/22 at 16:54 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > As someone who used to care a lot about Debian, but who hasn't been able > to pay much attention to the project lately, I was wondering: On 17/03/22 at 13:57 -0700, Felix Lechner wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 12:52 PM Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > > > Interesting. What would be the composition, roles, duties of that > > Strategy Council ? > > [...] > > Given your past service as project leader, I would be honored to > appoint you as the first member (pending confirmation by the > Appointments Committee). Since I just admitted not paying much attention to the project lately, I'm not sure I would trust myself as a good pick for this council :) Lucas
Re: Question to all candidates: registering Debian as an organization
Hi Bill, On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 1:50 PM Bill Allombert wrote: > > Could someone explain what does that mean ? I'm sorry no one has gotten back to you so far. I do not know which ideas Jonathan Carter and Brian Gupta (copied as a courtesy) have been pursuing. My own thinking on this point is also evolving, as detailed below. I copied Christan Kastner to make sure he sees this expanded answer. If the project finances lawsuits, as suggested elsewhere, we may soon have a liability problem. Newton's law also applies in conflict: Exerting force always creates a counter-force. (Many folks in Debian do not understand that basic maxim of diplomacy.) It would only be a matter of time until we have to defend ourselves. The same thinking has kept me from pushing for lawsuits as your trademark delegate. Assuming we have X amount of money—I'm not sure the amount is public, and it would be dated anyway—a single lawsuit from a contributor for harassment at the 2022 Kosovo Debconf, as an example, could wipe us out. What if the contributor is female? Last time I checked we were 94% male. In a jury trial, the claim could settle at twice the amount we have, plus inflation. Lawyers fees would be extra. Our dreams of free software would be gone. If we accidentally formed a General Partnership, as has been suggested elsewhere, the plaintiff might be able to collect the award from our wealthiest members, who would then have to turn around and recover from the rest of us. It is called the doctrine of joint and several liability. [1] Maybe a patent troll would even set up a honey trap for us. Either way, it would be prudent to solicit broad legal input before taking steps toward incorporation. As project leader, I would contact Laurence Lessig [2] at the Harvard Law School as well as Richard Fontana and Eben Moglen—both long-time friends of the project—to see if they might host a symposium to help us figure out what to do. (I have no legal training.) I'm sure some law school graduate or post-doctoral students are interested in our potential transition. Looking into the future, please allow me to mention another big idea. What if the United Nations were to recognize a universal right to digital access and computing resources? Could Debian become part of a "World Digital Access Programme"? Under international treaties, I think it would shield us from most lawsuits in national courts. Our tax regime would also become super easy—probably none. Debian runs on older hardware. Plus, we have done a lot of hard work on international translations! I have friends who are or were high-ranking officials at the UN. With the project's permission, I might explore finding a home for Debian there. Would the UN be an appropriate potential home for our noble and selfless efforts? Kind regards, Felix Lechner P.S. Everyone, please join #meetfelix on OFTC. I hope to get to know you better! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig
Re: Question to all candidates: how is Debian doing?
Hi, On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:54:54 +0100 Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > How is Debian doing currently? Working steadily as well as before, and providing better quality in testing/unstable than ever (stable is also better of course). As usual, more packages in each releases. > What are the recent successes I might have missed? Well, there are more derivatives that are based on Debian than before. The trend of server systems goes to a container, and many many people (and systems) use debian(-slim) docker image and distroless that uses Debian. It means, we've provided a lot of values for the world - transparently. > Where did we fail or under-perform? We have many derivatives that may mean they are not satisfied with our project and want to make it outside of the project. And upstreaming it to Debian is not so much. Some of them are worth it for users, and they can make Debian more attractive. Please take them to us, borrow them! Wrong reputation: 'Debian means "too old to use"' :( It is not valid, and as a user of testing/unstable, I can see that we are making updates every day. But I can see such words in social media a lot - it's a failure. It seems that "Many items are produced in a factory, but consumers cannot see it at the stores." It's not a manufacturing system failure, but we can put more performance in a delivery system, IMO. > Which big challenges do you see ahead of us? * Refactoring the project and its infrastructure (more effort and investment) * With above, provide more "values" through daily development with stability (as ever) and predictable changes for users * Communicate with users and contributors more, hear their voice * More statistics to measure success (and fail) and decide direction All of the above needs contributors' will! :) > Are there opportunities that we could leverage? Huge YES. We can do more - if we would "Embrace Change". -- Hideki Yamane
Re: Question to all candidates: Code of Conduct and Community Team - how do you feel about them?
Hi, On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:34:03 + "Andrew M.A. Cater" wrote: > We've had the Code of Conduct for about eight years now and the Community Team > for about as long. There are still significant differences about how some > people feel about them, despite the Code of Conduct having been adopted by > the > Project as a whole. > > How do _you_ feel about the Code of Conduct - and the role of a Community > Team? Well, we have the CoC, but all we do not read and think about it repeatedly, contrast to DFSG and Social Contract because the CoC itself is a kind of "common sense", IMHO. CoC itself is good, however, we've just created it - have the form but not the spirit (in Japanese "仏作って魂を入れず"). If we want to use it effectively, we should do some training during the onboarding process (and it's better to do it for existing members in each several years). We need more communication about it with our contributors. We need a Community Team to deal with some troubles for the project, and they do hard work (thank you), but I need more transparency about what they are doing (and did). Maybe it would be a sensitive and difficult thing but it's a necessary thing. > More widely: where something is adopted by the Project but opposition remains > - > how would you deal with differences of opinion and attempt to reconcile > different viewpoints to consensus? That is like a law - our parliament adopts something, but opposition remains ;) And we are an all different people and have a unique opinion, sometimes conflict with each other. Yes, there is a "gap," so all we apparently should recognize it. Currently, it's not (to me, at least). And if someone would do some violation to CoC, just banning is not healing. Asking them to go for counseling by professionals with project money is better, IMO. We are good at coding, writing, making some systems - but not counselors. After dealing with some cognitive trouble, then re-start talking. Maybe before and during their duties, the community team members would be better to get counseling since dealing with such trouble make them sick (or something wrong feelings), IMHO. To summarize: - Make the situation clear: what's wrong, and what it should be. - Train ourselves: to think about what is CoC and why we need it - We don't have to do all the work by only ourselves. Ask the professionals that we are not good at (of course I'll do so :) -- Hideki Yamane
Re: Question to all candidates: Ongoing/future legal projects
Hi, On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:19:28 -0400 Molly dB wrote: > I don't think it's exactly a term limit problem. In November, there was > an email to debian-private about a small team handling some legal work > (also mentioned in Jonathan's email). I want to know about how a new > DPL would take over this specific issue and manage future legal issues. > Jonathan's email shared some specifics about how the current issues are > being handled, so I hope moving forward we can talk about other things. Okay. > In general, I want to hear about how candidates intend on approaching > the kinds of issues that may need legal intervention in the future. I > understand that this is a somewhat vague question, because there are > many types of legal issues. (Someone could bring a copyright claim > against Debian, for example.) Another way to ask this question would > be: What's your project management style for a community disaster? First, I've never gotten such issues (luckily), so I would "imagine" it so far. Arrange a particular team (with our contributors and lawyers from outside of the project) and set a special issue tracker infrastructure to deal with the problem. And DPL (and assistant team if I would be ;) communicate with them (+ other teams that related to) and handle the direction. Make a monthly progress report and publish it as much as possible (I guess, without details, of course) since we project members should know the situations we face now. -- Hideki Yamane
