Re: [DRAFT #2] Maximum term for tech ctte members
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:18:36PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 19/11/14 at 19:13 +, Anthony Towns wrote: Russ's reaction to this was that it would be very hard not to automatically reappoint a current member: The social pressures here don't work very well. In general, any approach that has the existing committee decide whether to retain a member who's already on the committee has the potential for hard feelings, creating future difficulties working together, and so forth. This is why I favor some system that requires a pause; that way, no one is put in the position of having to refuse to reappoint someone that they've worked with for the last eight years. -- https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2014/05/msg00081.html I found that pretty persuasive personally. OK, point taken. So either we find a way to re-appoint a current member that avoids that social pressure (but that would likely require changing the appointment procedure entirely), or we drop the idea of not having a mandatory vacation between two appointments. (which sounds more likely) How about only accepting reappointment during the cooloff period if a.) the committee is short more than one person *AND* b.) the nomination comes from the DPL? That way, if the DPL observes that the TC clearly struggles to find a new member he can nominate a cooloff:ee, but the TC cannot do so themselves. PS: To preempt possible objections that this allows for the TC to gamble the system by claiming that there are no viable candidates: I fully trust the TC to be above such behaviour *AND* I also fully trust the DPL to see through such a behaviour if it, against all odds, would take place. Kind regards, David -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141119223245.gg8...@hirohito.acc.umu.se
Re: REISSUED CfV: General Resolution: Init system coupling
On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 11:34:20AM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: [snip] But actually, I dislike (3) even more, for the reasons detailed in the subthread at [4]. I value standardization a lot. I think that this is one of the main things that Debian provides. (3) is a big step towards diminishing the importance of a common policy, by pushing important technical decisions that affect standardization to the respective maintainers. I think that all packages must support the default init system (except in very specific cases), and we shouldn't allow maintainers to decide otherwise because they think it's best for their packages. (yeah, the wording in the amendment goes slightly further, but I don't think it goes far enough -- also, we have existing procedures to deal with cases where it makes sense to deviate from a common policy). I too value standardization. Judging by decisions taking by other large distributions and upstream development, a fifth, only support systemd as init system would thus have been the most sensible option. But for political reasons that's sadly not realistic. I read option 3 as saying that all packages have to support the default init system and *on top of that* they may, at the maintainer's convenience, support other init systems. This is as close to a more sensible fifth option we're likely to get at the moment. Maybe once things have calmed down and people notice that the moon did not fall just because we changed default init system it might be viable to formally excise sysvinit scripts, but for now I think that option 3 is far better than option 2. Kind regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141109121607.ge8...@hirohito.acc.umu.se
Re: Alternative proposal: support for alternative init systems is desirable but not mandatory
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 02:28:02PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: [snip] The wording in my resolution comes from the TC discussion and specifies `at least one' or `some alternative'. To represent that as `all' is IMO misleading. One important difference between `all' and `at least one' is this: suppose there is some init system that does not support the common interface you suppose in your point (2). Saying `all' suggests that it is somehow the fault of the packages which deal with the common interface. This point was raised in the TC discussion. Saying `all' gives the impression that every package must do work for each init system. That is why my proposal's wording simply says that packages are forbidden from requiring `a specific' init system. OK, so packaging uselessd (thus providing another init system that provides -- most of -- the systemd interfaces) would solve all your worries? [snip] Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141019141318.gc8...@hirohito.acc.umu.se
Re: non-free?
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 01:58:26PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 27/03/14 at 20:38 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Thu, 2014-03-27 at 10:32 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Nice; if it really works with all RAR 3.0 archives, it might be worth updating the unrar-free package description, which currently says: Description-en: Unarchiver for .rar files Unrar can extract files from .rar archives. Can't handle some archives in the RAR 3.0 format, only the non-free unrar package can do that. Wrong package, you are looking at unrar not unar. No, I'm saying that, if unar can open all RAR 3.0 archives, the unrar-free package description should probably be updated to point to unar rather than unrar. If unar can open all rar-archives, why not drop unrar and unrar-nonfree from the archives? That way we'd be rid of one crippled and one non-free package, all in one fell swoop :) Kind regards, David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140327164937.gn25...@hirohito.acc.umu.se
Re: [Draft] GR: diversity statement for the Debian Project
On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 10:14:06AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Hi, On 03/05/12 at 00:32 +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote: It doesn't matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you: we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community. I'm not a big fan of this formulation. Maybe it should be a bit less personal, without the use of we/you ? I personally love this kind of phrasing. This is supposed to be a statement that makes people feel welcome. Contrast We welcome you with The Debian project welcomes contributors. The latter phrasing (or other non-personal ways of putting it) seems, at least to me -- admittedly not a native English speaker -- quite cold. Kind regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120504223815.gc10...@suiko.acc.umu.se
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 01:54:40PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Mon, Dec 15 2008, Russ Allbery wrote: Thomas Weber thomas.weber.m...@gmail.com writes: Am Montag, den 15.12.2008, 10:06 + schrieb Steve McIntyre: I've been talking with Manoj already, in private to try and avoid flaming. I specifically asked him to delay this vote until the numerous problems with it were fixed, and it was started anyway. I'm *really* not happy with that, and I'm following through now. Uh, I don't quite get this: you shortened the discussion period, but at the same time asked the secretary to delay the vote? Where did Steve shorten the discussion period? He did so for the *other* vote, but I haven't seen a thread where he did for this one. (I may have just missed it.) I mis remembered. Steve shortened the discussion period for this vote, and the discussion and voting period for the _other_ vote, but I missed that the vote period for the gr_lenny vote was not shortened. I'll send out a new CFV. OK, does this mean that everyone who already cast their vote will need to do so again, or will the voting period simply be extended another week? Regards: David -- /) David Weinehall t...@debian.org /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Proposal: The DFSG do not require source code for data, including firmware
On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 05:38:07PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 01:28:35AM -0500, Peter Samuelson wrote: [Steve Langasek] That's an interesting point. Can you elaborate on how you see this being a loophole, in a sense that having the firmware on a ROM wouldn't also be? The day Debian begins to distribute ROM chips, or devices containing ROM chips, I will expect those chips to come with source code. Until then, this is a red herring. Note that while Peter is currently in the n-m queue (on hold pending further response to TS checks apparently), he's not yet a developer, and his expectations shouldn't be inferred to be those of the developers as a whole. Well, I hereby fully agree with Peter's expectations. And I am a DD. Please don't dismiss people just on grounds that they're not, yet, DD's. Regards: David -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Rime on my window (\ // ~ // Diamond-white roses of fire // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Beautiful hoar-frost (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A FIFO DAM, was: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64
On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 02:26:28AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: [snip] Is queue-jumping desirable? It really sucks to see people (with questionable philosophies expressed on lists) getting through NM in 10 days while you're dangling there for months without being able to detect anyone doing anything about you. Yes, it's definitely desirable. For instance, a person maintaining an important library that a lot of other packages depend on, is more urgent to pass through than someone maintaining an umptisecond tetris-clone, text-editor or whatever... [snip] I agree with everyone that it would be desirable with more feedback, but I prefer having someone I can REALLY trust to make the right decisions on who goes in and who stays out, to someone that I don't have full confidence in but who communicates more. Would I trust myself as DAM? Not for a second. Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Northern lights wander (\ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Full colour fire (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: General Resolution: Handling of the non-free section: proposedBallot
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 03:18:15PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 02:16:42PM +, MJ Ray wrote: On 2004-03-08 13:51:40 + Sven Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 01:37:31PM +, MJ Ray wrote: They are drivers for hardware which have the bug of not being free software, but I think you knew that already. Yeah, and what do you plan to do to help fixing that ? And do you not think this is more important than some cosmetic change like the one that is proposed here. I suggest those who want them fixed work on them. When I want them fixed, I will work on them eventually. My time is too limited to do much more: there are things I want more now that I'm not working on yet. Agressive challenges from the likes of you do not make me want to work on them, given your recent history. A, but you have no problem in having me do more work in order to maintain my non-free package, which is currently needed for the rest of my debian work. Thanks. I'm moving out of my current apartment very soon, thus I have no more need of my ADSL-modem. This ADSL-modem (Zyxel Prestige 645MP) doesn't need any non-free driver (or indeed, any drivers at all). I'm willing to pay shipment for it and give it to you, if you in return promise to stop using your current ADSL-modem, drop support for the driver and request for removal (or at least do not opppose such a request from another DD) of the driver. (DISCLAIMER: This of course relies on the ADSL-modem working for you too; I'm not that well into phone-systems in different countries to know if if would work...) Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Northern lights wander (\ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Full colour fire (/
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:31:42PM +0100, Gergely Nagy wrote: [lots of partially amusing but mostly silly text snipped] Ooooh! There's another idea! We can feed Gone with the Wind (iirc that was the title), th script of Titanic and other stuff to a megahal, put a tama frontend on it, dress it up as a girl, then feed it our constitution, policy and -devel without the flamewars, and we have a new, female developer! You do of course realise that -devel without the flamewars would consist purely of people sending unsubscribe requests to the wrong place and spam, right? And having a devel with a vocabulary solely consisting of SPAM-phrases and the word unsubscribe might not be very useful. ;-) Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Northern lights wander (\ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Full colour fire (/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:31:42PM +0100, Gergely Nagy wrote: [lots of partially amusing but mostly silly text snipped] Ooooh! There's another idea! We can feed Gone with the Wind (iirc that was the title), th script of Titanic and other stuff to a megahal, put a tama frontend on it, dress it up as a girl, then feed it our constitution, policy and -devel without the flamewars, and we have a new, female developer! You do of course realise that -devel without the flamewars would consist purely of people sending unsubscribe requests to the wrong place and spam, right? And having a devel with a vocabulary solely consisting of SPAM-phrases and the word unsubscribe might not be very useful. ;-) Regards: David Weinehall -- /) David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] /) Northern lights wander (\ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \) http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/ Full colour fire (/
Re: Some analysis of DPL 2003 results
On Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 02:29:16AM -0700, Rob Lanphier wrote: Hi all, Being the election methods geek that I am, I decided to do some analysis of the last DPL election. I've posted the results of this here: http://electorama.com/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=32 [snip] Interesting reading, although I don't know what I should make out of this sentence: What complicates this is that the ballot allows for multiple first choices. Relatively few Debian developers did this though (453 of the 488 total votes). I'd say that 453 out of 488 is quite a lot, not relatively few, so something seems to be amiss here, huh? Regards: David Weinehall -- / David Weinehall [EMAIL PROTECTED] / Northern lights wander \ // Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \ http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao// Full colour fire /
