Re: dealing with aggression against project
On Wednesday, 7 April 2021 11:22:27 AM AEST Russ Allbery wrote: > PS: I would not consider such a letter to be "aggression against the > project" in any meaningful way, and thus also don't agree with the subject > line of this thread. In this case I'd say you are wrong. Telling another project, on behalf of the entire organisation, that their leader is unworthy is an act of aggression because it implies that * they need external advise in a form of petition (or worse) * the project is unable to govern itself properly * the people deserve the (bad) leader they've elected * community that made bad decisions is out to be shamed * leader himself is smeared with long list of accusations * leader is beyond hope, worthy of no rebuttal or pardon All of those implied messages are beyond criticism. I'd call it "passive aggressive" except that there is nothing "passive" in public accusations of impropriety, however politely they are expressed. Here is the less hypothetical example: our current GR not merely calls leader "unworthy" but calls for his resignation (choice 2), together with entire board of directors (choice 1), with refusal to cooperate until our demands are met (choice 3). An undeniable aggression. -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- The relative freedom which we enjoy depends of public opinion. The law is no protection. Governments make laws, but whether they are carried out, and how the police behave, depends on the general temper in the country. If large numbers of people are interested in freedom of speech, there will be freedom of speech, even if the law forbids it; if public opinion is sluggish, inconvenient minorities will be persecuted, even if laws exist to protect them. -- George Orwell --- COVID-19: Majority testing positive have no symptoms. -- https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/july-august-2020/ignoring-the-covid-evidence/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
dealing with aggression against project
Suppose Debian is to receive a similar letter of aggression, e.g. "We IBM and Mozilla Foundation think that your duly elected project leader is unworthy." Wouldn't the only reasonable response to that be "mind your own business"? Note that if we start discussing response and putting it out for GR then we are DoS'ed successfully. -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- The end cannot justify the means for the simple and obvious reason that the means employed determine the nature of the ends produced. -- Aldous Huxley --- And how long a lockdown is enough? If we open now, will lockdown recur in autumn? Next year? Whenever authoritarianism so wishes? No dictatorship could imagine a better precedent for absolute control. -- https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1924.long :: BMJ 2020;369:m1924 "Should governments continue lockdown to slow the spread of covid-19?" signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: General Resolution: please vote responsibly
On Sunday, 4 April 2021 9:31:26 PM AEST Jessica Clarke wrote: > they should vote for > what *they* believe in, not what you or anyone else thinks. Adults' vote would hardly be motivated by reverse psychology (e.g. voting against "what I think or anyone else think"). But it is worth remembering that to cancel someone's life mission is nothing less than an expressed death (non-existence) wish. -- Kind regards, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- Writing non-free software is not an ethically legitimate activity, so if people who do this run into trouble, that's good! All businesses based on non-free software ought to fail, and the sooner the better. -- Richard Stallman signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Debian Project Leader election 2021: both candidates are from cancel mob
On Sunday, 4 April 2021 9:49:57 AM AEST Debian Project Secretary - Kurt Roeckx wrote: > [ ] Choice 1: Jonathan Carter > [ ] Choice 2: Sruthi Chandran FYI, both cancel mob candidates signed anti-RMS statement: https://github.com/rms-open-letter/rms-open-letter.github.io/blob/main/index.md -- Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- If I were a teacher, I would recommend that all my students very hurriedly read most of Orwell's books, especially 1984 and Animal Farm, because then they'd begin to understand the world we live in. -- John Pilger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: General Resolution: please vote responsibly
On Sunday, 4 April 2021 9:50:01 AM AEST Debian Project Secretary - Kurt Roeckx wrote: > This is the first call for votes on the General Resolution about > a statement regarding Richard Stallman's readmission to the FSF board. I urge everybody to vote responsibly and thoughtfully. Cancel mob can never be satisfied and, if encouraged, they will demand more sacrifices soon. -- Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Mahatma Gandhi signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 5
On Saturday, 3 April 2021 11:19:38 AM AEDT Craig Sanders wrote: > The witch hunt is not within debian, debian's just being dragged into the > angry mob. Yes to everything you've said, Craig. And the attack on Debian has been successful so far. So many man-hours were lost on this GR already in the midst of the pre-release freeze, just to name one problem... We are on a slippery slope of turning Debian into political project. >From now on I expect more politics and less commitment to the project's mission. Mob only cares about power and if they succeed with canceling a person (who dedicated his entire life to the mission) for being weird then we will only see more exercise of mob power here and everywhere else... -- Best wishes, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot. -- George Orwell --- The age structure of those most affected does not fit the evidence from previous pandemics. -- COVID-19 deaths compared with "Swine Flu" https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-deaths-compared-with-swine-flu/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Willingness to share a position statement?
On Friday, 2 April 2021 11:09:42 PM AEDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > Thanks for arguing for my point: Communism was a beautiful theoretical > idea which was implemented by humans and therefore was a miserable > fuckup in the end. > > I still think the concept is really interesting, but I can't see a > working implementation as soon as there are humans who would want to be > leaders in such regimes. > > I don't see a connection with free speech here, anyway. What a nasty disgraceful style of debating you have, Pierre. You understood very well what I'm saying and I'm is not confirming your point. Communism is a bad ideology that does not work (and could not work even in theory) - that's why it should be "cancelled". Free speech is a beautiful working practice but it is in the way of terrible ideas and that's why they want to "cancel" free speech. -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- Hay smells different to lovers and horses. -- Stanisław Jerzy Lec --- How Many Excess Deaths Are Due to COVID-19? -- https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-many-excess-deaths-are-due-to-covid-19/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Willingness to share a position statement?
On Thursday, 1 April 2021 7:56:12 PM AEDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > Freedom of speech is one of the theoretically most beautiful ideas > Humans ever created. So is Communism. Communism (i.e. fascism + marxism) is an ultimate "cancel culture" that terminated at least 100 million lives in 20th century. Communism can not tolerate criticism and that's why communism is incompatible with free speech. We need free speech to defeat communism and prevent it from raising its ugly head again. The following book is a good read to understand the matters better: Friedrich A. Hayek "The Road to Serfdom" https://mises.org/library/road-serfdom-0 -- Regards, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- Journalists don't sit down and think, "I'm now going to speak for the establishment." Of course not. But they internalize a whole set of assumptions, and one of the most potent assumptions is that the world should be seen in terms of its usefulness to the West, not humanity. This leads journalists to make a distinction between people who matter and people who don't matter. -- John Pilger --- Israel: Why Is All-Cause Mortality Increasing? -- https://swprs.org/israel-why-is-all-cause-mortality-increasing/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: "rms-open-letter" GR choice 2: sign https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
On Friday, 26 March 2021 7:12:09 PM AEDT Timo Weingärtner wrote: > Hi, > > I hereby propose to have another option on the ballot: > > ---8<---8<---8<--- > The Debian Project co-signs the statement regarding Richard Stallman's > readmission to the FSF board seen at https://rms-support-letter.github.io/. > The text of this statement is given below. > > Richard M. Stallman, frequently known as RMS, has been a driving force in > the free software movement for decades, with contributions including the > GNU operating system and Emacs. > > Recently, there have been vile online attacks looking to remove him from > the FSF board of directors for expressing his personal opinions. We have > watched this happen before in an organized fashion with other prominent > free software activists and programmers. We will not stand idly this time, > when an icon of this community is attacked. > > FSF is an autonomous body that is capable of treating its members in a > fair, unbiased fashion, and should not give in to external social > pressures. We urge the FSF to consider the arguments against RMS > objectively and to truly understand the meaning of his words and actions. > > Historically, RMS has been expressing his views in ways that upset many > people. He is usually more focused on the philosophical underpinnings, and > pursuing the objective truth and linguistic purism, while underemphasising > people’s feelings on matters he’s commenting on. This makes his arguments > vulnerable to misunderstanding and misrepresentation, something which we > feel is happening in the open letter calling for his removal. His words > need to be interpreted in this context and taking into account that more > often than not, he is not looking to put things diplomatically. > > Regardless, Stallman’s opinions on the matters he is being persecuted over > are not relevant to his ability to lead a community such as the FSF. > Furthermore, he is entitled to his opinions just as much as anyone else. > Members and supporters do not have to agree with his opinions, but should > respect his right to freedom of thought and speech. > > To the FSF: > > Removing RMS will hurt FSF’s image and will deal a significant blow to the > momentum of the free software movement. We urge you to consider your > actions carefully, as what you will decide will have a serious impact on > the future of the software industry. > > To the ambush mob who is ganging up on Richard Stallman over reasonable > arguments in debate and various opinions and beliefs voiced over decades as > a public figure: > > You have no part in choosing the leadership of any communities. Especially > not via another mob attack which does not remotely resemble a fairly > conducted debate as exemplified by better people such as Richard Stallman. > ---8<---8<---8<--- Seconded. This option is necessary to balance RMS derangement syndrome. IMHO this shameful GR should not have existed as it is not our business to interfere with internal matters of FSF. -- Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 2048R/CCBC38B3CCEE --- Tyranny is always better organized than freedom. --- "Increased Risk of Noninfluenza Respiratory Virus Infections Associated With Receipt of Inactivated Influenza Vaccine". -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22423139/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: "rms-open-letter" choice 3: do not, as the project itself, sign any letter regarding rms
On Saturday, 27 March 2021 9:51:40 PM AEDT Timo Weingärtner wrote: > Updated text: > ---8<---8<---8<--- > The Debian Project will not issue a public statement on whether Richard > Stallman should be removed from leadership positions or not. > > Any individual (including Debian members) wishing to (co-)sign any of the > open letters on this subject is invited to do this in a personal capacity. > ---8<---8<---8<--- I support that. Thanks, Timo. -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- The end cannot justify the means for the simple and obvious reason that the means employed determine the nature of the ends produced. -- Aldous Huxley --- And how long a lockdown is enough? If we open now, will lockdown recur in autumn? Next year? Whenever authoritarianism so wishes? No dictatorship could imagine a better precedent for absolute control. -- https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1924.long :: BMJ 2020;369:m1924 "Should governments continue lockdown to slow the spread of covid-19?" signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Willingness to share a position statement?
On Wednesday, 24 March 2021 11:38:25 PM AEDT Steve McIntyre wrote: > Freedom of speech does *not* mean freedom from consequences. Here is a good reply to this very statement: ~~~ "Freedom of speech is supposed to imply freedom from quite a wide range of possible consequences; mostly consequences like fines or incarceration, but the spirit of it applies more broadly than that. If I were to say that [whoever] is free to speak, but I wouldn’t guarantee there would be no consequences for that speech, wouldn’t it be fair to interpret my words as a veiled threat? The only valid “consequences” for an act of free speech is a solid rebuttal. If you think otherwise, then I suggest that you haven’t quite grasped the point of the concept, or that you simply have tyrannical tendencies (as many do). ~~~ Taken from the following conversation: https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2021/02/07/friendly-atheist-defends-censorhip/ -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov GPG key : 4096R/52B6BBD953968D1B --- It's a nonsense assumption that you can get rid of terrorism with war. Terrorism is taking the lives of innocent people to gain your objective. War is basically the same thing on a larger scale. -- Gene Sharp --- Your Facebook friends are wrong about the lockdown. A non-hysterics's guide to COVID-19 by Tom Woods. -- https://wrongaboutlockdown.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
