Re: First email to debian www page team

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi Albert,

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 01:16:35PM -0700, Albert Yeh wrote:
>Hi All,
> 
>I'm Albert and getting my master's in CS. I've browsed the debian webpage
>for... hours trying to find out what I can do to assist. Alot of this is
>overwhelming or very hard to decide on where to start. I tried helping
>with man-pages but alot of it comes from the upstream packages.  I thought
>id try something with a little less expertise. Having browsed around, I
>found this page:
>https://www.debian.org/devel/website/todo
>Even this page itself could use some reorg to present the information a
>bit better. 
>If i wanted to present it in a cleaner more presentable format, what would
>be my first step to making a contribution to the debian team.

The source code of the website is at


You're always welcome to fork that, make changes that you think would
make things clearer, and file a merge request.

Thanks for wanting to contribute!

-- 
 w@uter.{be,co.za}
wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

Re: [website] Document how to set usertags in BTS

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 01:01:30PM +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
>  You can set usertags for multiple users at bug submission time by
> -including multiple User pseudo-headers, each Usertags pseudo-header
> -sets the usertags for the last User pseudo-header. This is especially
> +including multiple User pseudo-headers; each Usertags pseudo-header
> +sets the usertags for the last user set before via User pseudo-header. This 
> is especially
>  useful for setting usertags for a team with multiple users, setting
>  usertags for multiple teams, or setting the
>   href="https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Debbugs/ArchitectureTags;>architecture 
> usertags

Honestly, I think that is *less* clear than the original.

I would instead propose:

  You can set usertags for multiple users at bug submission time by
  including multiple "User" pseudo-headers. The headers are read top to
  bottom, and every time a "User" pseudo-header is used it sets the
  current user which is then active for any "Usertags" pseudo-headers
  that appear before the next "User" pseudo-header in the list.

-- 
 w@uter.{be,co.za}
wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

Re: Re: Using Cloudflare as CDN for debian.org website

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 03:03:47PM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> * reCaptcha's dataset is closed source. Google can and will use it as
> they wish. They can also use the dataset/the AI against humans or
> humanity itself.
> 
> AFAIK, reCAPTCHA's dataset mostly based on road infrastructure in USA 
> (streets,
> buildings, cars, signs, etc). Those who lived in USA will easily recognize
> them, but what is the case for someone who can't master English well and
> doesn't know about road infrastructure used? He may leave the website just
> because he can't pass the security check.

How on earth do you consider that to even remotely be an advantage? We
*want* the website to be usable to everyone, not just to human beings.

-- 
To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Re: Using Cloudflare as CDN for debian.org website

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 07:14:58PM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Dear debian.org webmasters,
> 
> CDN (Content Delivery Network) is a service that distribute website's content
> into different servers across the world. This way, when a visitor in Singapore
> (for example) visit a website which hosted in Europe, the website assets will
> be served from CDN server in Singapore or nearby instead.

The Debian.org website is already mirrored to several machines, which in fact
implements a CDN avant la lettre.

[...]
> One of interesting feature of Cloudflare is reCAPTCHA challenge every time
> visitor access website which have this feature enabled.

Please let's not go there...

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  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Re: New WML upstream release uploaded to Unstable (was: Intent to upload new WML version to unstable for buster)

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi Axel,

On Tue, Jan 01, 2019 at 03:36:25AM +0100, Axel Beckert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Axel Beckert wrote:
> > I recently uploaded 2.10.1 to experimental which seems to work
> > identical to 2.0.12. I just had to include a few patches for making
> > wmk and some corner cases work properly again. And with them works
> > well on my own projects as well as with webwml (tried English, German
> > and Japanese).
> 
> In the meanwhile I ran "make install" on the whole webwml directory
> with wml 2.12.0 and it did run through without aborting. I checked a
> few pages as samples and they all looked fine.
> 
> There though were a bunch of ignored errors (attached) like these:
> 
> make[4]: *** No rule to make target 
> '../../../../english/international/l10n/data/unstable', needed by 
> '../../../../english/international/l10n/date.gen'.  Stop.
> make[3]: [../../../Makefile.common:84: po-install] Error 2 (ignored)
> 
> grep: ../../../../english/international/l10n/data/langs: No such file or 
> directory
> 
> They though didn't look wml-related to me.

This can be avoided; I spent some time a while back making it possible
to have the website build fail, even if you didn't run the cronjobs etc.
To do so, run:

make STRICT_ERROR_CHECKS=1 USE_SAMPLE_FILES=1 install

(it will then fail if you didn't install some of the tools required by
the website build, however, so you might want to prepare for that)

-- 
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  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Re: Unable to create account

[Wouter Verhelst]

[Trimmed Cc]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 04:31:10PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-12-18 at 07:29 +, shu...@everdata.com wrote:
> 
> > Thank you so much for your valuable response. Steve, I would like to
> > convey that we are a web hosting company located in India
> 
> I've just whitelisted your email now so things should work OK if you
> try to register again. Please let us know if you have any problems.

Are you sure that's the right thing to do? They sounded like regular
spammers to me...

-- 
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  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Re: Renamed .gitlab-ci.yml to disable CI builds (at least for now)

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:00:34AM +, Damyan Ivanov wrote:
> -=| Wouter Verhelst, 27.11.2018 08:20:08 +0100 |=-
> > Hi Laura,
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 09:27:19PM +0100, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> > > Hello all
> > > We've been told that the webwml CI builds in Salsa use too much
> > > resources, affecting Salsa's ability to serve other users.
> > 
> > That's not good, obviously.
> > 
> > How are we overdoing it? E.g., are we using too many runners, or are we
> > using too much space for artifacts?
> 
> Too many runners, I think. That's from #alioth:
> 
> webwml starts about 20 builds in parallel, 20 times docker pull of 
> a large image, 20 times git pull of the not too small repo, this 
> produces a lot of load
> 
> i asked them to disable the builds, as the result of those 
> builds are not used, not even to check for errors. and 
> breaking the concurrent build restriction to do nothing is 
> a bit bold
> 
> HTH to pinpoint the issue.

It does, thanks.

The reason we currently do it that way is that, while I know you can
tell buildbot to skip certain builds if they are not necessary based on
certain criteria, I couldn't find an obvious way to make "were files
under a certain directory touched in the most recent push" be part of
those criteria. I did add a small shell test to the start of every
translation that skips the build if the current translation did not see
any changes in the push for which we're building, but didn't consider
the fact that even the setup for running that really small script is
significant, too.

I'll go through the documentation and see if I can find a way to make
that work better, so that translation jobs aren't even started if they
don't need to do anything.

Regards,

-- 
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Re: Renamed .gitlab-ci.yml to disable CI builds (at least for now)

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi Laura,

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 09:27:19PM +0100, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> Hello all
> We've been told that the webwml CI builds in Salsa use too much
> resources, affecting Salsa's ability to serve other users.

That's not good, obviously.

How are we overdoing it? E.g., are we using too many runners, or are we
using too much space for artifacts?

> Currently the use of shared runners is disabled (see Settings > CI in
> Salsa webwml project), and I have renamed the .gitlab-ci.yml file to
> README_CI.gitlab-ci.yml and added an explanation inside the file (see
> the paragraph added below):
[...]
> We can also discuss in which cases it's reasonable to enable the CI
> setup for the team repo, and how (apart of renaming the file back and
> forth?).

Some things that spring to mind:

- We could install a project-specific runner on a machine that is owned
  by (a member of) the webmaster team. That way we don't overload the
  shared runners. This would not help much if the main problem is the
  overuse of artifacts, though.
- We could disable artifacts altogether, and use some custom deployment
  instead (e.g., on www-staging.debian.org). This would require that
  translations are able to be built when English is not built, however;
  I'm not sure if that's the case currently. It also ignores the shared
  runners issue (if that exists). Obviously the two methods could be
  combined if necessary.
- Please note that with gitlab CI, it's also possible to specify on
  which branches the runner should do nothing. That way, we can tell it
  to ignore the master branch, but build it everywhere else. It would
  then still be used for merge requests, without a need for renaming the
  file over and over again. I think this would be more useful as an
  intermediate solution than the current "disabled everywhere" thing.

Regards,

-- 
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  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

!33 ready as far as I'm concerned

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

I've spent the last week or so on tuning the CI system a bit more in !33
so that CI will fail if there's an error in building the website. The
strategy I used in the end was to add small sample files that are of the
same format as the external files that are downloaded by cron on
www-master, but that are much smaller. I added another variable,
USE_SAMPLE_FILES, to the Makefiles; if that's set, the build system will
now copy the sample file to the "regular" file, and use that rather than
expecting the regular file to be there.

With that, CI will now fail if you introduce an error to the website
(but that's a good thing, obviously). You will get an email when that is
the case.

I've also added another feature: you can now specify which translations
should be built, rather than having CI autodetect which languages were
touched and only build those. For more information, see the ci/README.md
file that my merge request creates.

Finally, since this ended up installing a *lot* of packages which was
starting to take close to 10 minutes just to download and install
everything, I created a new docker image and stored it into the gitlab
docker registry for the webwml project. The Dockerfile for this is
stored under ci/docker-image/Dockerfile. However, I was thinking it
might be better to store that in a separate repository; that way, we can
create CI for that too, and adding another package to the docker image
becomes a question of committing a change to the Dockerfile and letting
gitlab CI do its thing.

(alternatively, this could be made a separate stage in CI, but that
would increase the time required to do a CI build yet again)

Thoughts?

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To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Bug#911185: commit hash not found in translation-check header breaks the wml build

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 03:06:43PM +0200, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> I have done some tests to include some parts of what is done via cron scripts
> to be done in .gitlab-ci.yml, to minimise the areas of webwml failing in the
> CI, but later I thought that if those processes are indeed in separated cron
> jobs that only run 6 times a day (and some others, once a day), maybe it's
> not reasonable to make them run in salsa with each commit...

Point.

Perhaps another strategy might be better:

For each file that is not committed to the repository, create a "sample"
file that contains examples of what the data is supposed to look like,
but that doesn't necessarily reproduce all the data. Then, create a
Makefile rule along the following lines:

Mirrors.masterlist: Mirrors.masterlist.sample
if [ ! -f $@ ]; then cp $< $@; else touch $@; fi

This copies the "sample" file to the "normal" file, but not if the
normal file already exists. That way, the bogus sample files should
never overwrite the real data, but at least CI will have processed some
information (I think it's perfectly fine if a CI preview contains some
bogus data). On www-master, the external cronjobs would remain, so there
the website would contain the real data.

-- 
To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Bug#911185: commit hash not found in translation-check header breaks the wml build

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:27:35PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:52:55PM +0200, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> > * I'm not sure if we want that, or we prefer that the build fails and
> > make the CI not ignore these errors (then I guess the person committing
> > the file with wrong translation hash would get a mail, and hopefully fix
> > the file. If the page is built, maybe these kind of issues pass by
> > unnoticed).
> 
> Yes. I think that should be done, indeed, and I've been working on it.

FWIW, that's !33. I've been adding a "weak error checks" mode, where the
intention is that CI will fail, unless something is expected not to be
in the repository, such as the "Mirrors.masterlist" file, which seems to
be used all over the repository.

One issue I'm running against now is /english/international/l10n/data;
that directory seems almost empty, but it would appear that it is
supposed to contain configuration data for the website itself (i.e., not
data that I would expect to find in another repository).

Why is that not just added to git and committed?

-- 
To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Bug#911185: commit hash not found in translation-check header breaks the wml build

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:52:55PM +0200, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> * I'm not sure if we want that, or we prefer that the build fails and
> make the CI not ignore these errors (then I guess the person committing
> the file with wrong translation hash would get a mail, and hopefully fix
> the file. If the page is built, maybe these kind of issues pass by
> unnoticed).

Yes. I think that should be done, indeed, and I've been working on it.

-- 
To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

Re: Gitlab CI and future steps

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 09:12:47PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> A second improvement that could be made is to set up automatic
> deployment for the website from gitlab CI, to allow for easy review. I
> had originally set up gitlab pages, but that is too limited for what we
> need; even when only producing the English version of the website, the
> size of the output is bigger than the maximum allowed size of 100MB in
> the gitlab pages setup on salsa.
> 
> Secondly, if we do proper deployments from salsa, then it is possible to
> let gitlab know that the deployment has happened on a particular
> location; then when you look at a commit or at a file in the gitlab
> interface, gitlab will add a link to the relevant page in either
> production or on the staging server, depending on the branch or
> repository you're looking at.

So, apparently, the artifacts can be browsed from a build tree. If you
go to a job in the gitlab interface, there is a section "Job artifacts"
in the right hand side. There, you have a "Browse" button that brings
you to an overview of all the files that were left by that job. You can
then click on any file to see it rendered in your browser.

I think this is good enough for review purposes, and that it means that
deployments are unnecessary.

Note that the artifacts are kept for a maximum of four weeks; after that
they are automatically removed. However, I think that is just fine for
review purposes.

-- 
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Gitlab CI and future steps

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

Laura just merged my gitlab CI config file. It works, but there's still
room for improvement:

First, the Makefile is set up to ignore errors by default. That means
that if someone introduces an error in one of the files, this isn't
noticed.  One could wonder what the point of doing a CI system is, if it
doesn't catches errors :-) I thought at first that it would be a lot of
work to make this work, but I found that there is actually a variable
STRICT_ERROR_CHECKS, which, if set to nonzero, aborts the build when
something fails.

Unfortunately, it also makes the build fail if files that are downloaded
by cron on www-master aren't available, so just setting it in
.gitlab-cy.yml doesn't help.

There are two ways of fixing this:

1. Either the gitlab CI config could be made to download the necessary
   files; or we could link to them from submodules, or something along
   those lines.
2. Alternatively, I could see if it is possible to make the build system
   ignore failures that are expected when certain files are not
   available, but to fail for everything else. This would work, but the
   downside of that method would be that any part of the website source
   that depends on such external files, would not be tested by the CI
   config.

I think the second will probably be the path of least resistance, so I
will be looking into that for now, but it might take a while; we can
then look at doing the first later.

A second improvement that could be made is to set up automatic
deployment for the website from gitlab CI, to allow for easy review. I
had originally set up gitlab pages, but that is too limited for what we
need; even when only producing the English version of the website, the
size of the output is bigger than the maximum allowed size of 100MB in
the gitlab pages setup on salsa.

Secondly, if we do proper deployments from salsa, then it is possible to
let gitlab know that the deployment has happened on a particular
location; then when you look at a commit or at a file in the gitlab
interface, gitlab will add a link to the relevant page in either
production or on the staging server, depending on the branch or
repository you're looking at.

Doing this requires some setup, and I'll have to figure out a way to do
it safely without providing SSH or push-rsync or some such access to
www-master for the whole internet, so I'll have to think about that a
bit more. I do think it has some advantages though, so I'll definitely
look at making that work.

Once we have deployment from git working for staging, we might
eventually also want to add deployment of the main website from git.
That would mean that when someone pushes to the repository, that would
trigger a build, and then deployment could either be done as part of the
build, or as part of a cron or manual job later on.

That's definitely not for now yet, though :-)

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Re: [Delayed] Summary of the web team BoF at DC18

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 07:36:03PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> I have been working on improving the setup to split out a full build
> into multiple jobs -- see
> https://salsa.debian.org/wouter/webwml/pipelines/19296 for an example.
> Since the timeout is per job and not per pipeline, that would work
> around this problem. However, it doesn't seem to be working properly
> yet; the "make install" step seems to be calling "wml" occasionally,
> which means things take time, and we don't want that (because it would
> make things time out). I'm not exactly sure whether that's my fault or
> the build system's.

I've now fixed this by making every individual language step do "make
install" rather than just "make all", and by having the "pages" phase
rsync each individual language directory into the main "public"
directory, which should then do the final publication.

It works, except that deploying the created output fails with an error
message that the produced data is too large. I'm sure this is something
which the salsa administrators could fix if we asked them nicely.

At any rate, I plan to replace the code in my merge request with the
code from this branch[1], it seems like a better option.

There are still a few things that could be done to improve this,
however:

- The webwml Makefile is currently set up to ignore failures and
  continue. For a continuous integration system, this is suboptimal,
  although I understand that it makes sense for the main website. I
  would like to suggest that ignoring failures is not done if some
  environment variable is set; the CI jobs can then just set that
  variable and allow things to fail if something is broken.
- The jobs start off with running "apt-get install" for various
  packages. This works, but it is more efficient to create an image on
  the docker hub which already has those packages preinstalled. I'll
  look at doing so.
- I'm not sure what happens if changes are made to multiple languages in
  a single git push. There are two possibilities: either gitlab will
  merge pushed caches from a single stage so that the cached result will
  have all files from all translations (which is good, that's what we
  want), or pushing a cache will overwrite all other caches from the
  same phase (in which case the publish stage will just push the English
  version of the site together with and whichever translation happened
  to be finished last). I'll need to experiment and see if that needs
  fixing. Even if the latter of those two possibilities is the case,
  however, I still think that seeing an auto build break is a good idea,
  so regardless of that I still think this is progress.

Thoughts?

[1] on the train currently, no network, I'll try to remember to push
when I get to a network connection, but I might forget, yada yada.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: [Delayed] Summary of the web team BoF at DC18

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi Laura,

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 06:17:48PM +0200, Laura Arjona Reina wrote:
> Hi Wouter
> 
> El 26 de septiembre de 2018 17:59:58 CEST, Wouter Verhelst 
>  escribió:
> >On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:51:32AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> >> I've filed !30 to merge it in.
> >
> >... and have received absolutely zero responses. Either that means
> >people don't understand how things work, or I'm missing the ball by so
> >much it would take a lot of effort to reply and nobody has had the
> >courage yet to do so.
> >
> >Which is it?
> 
> Sorry, I wanted to fork your repo and try myself (with some non-trivial
> commits build-wise, like the ones that trigger build of many pages (e.g.
> change in footer, release number, or .po templates)

Unfortunately, those will probably overrun the default maximum of one
hour per CI job and therefore time out. It is possible to change the
default maximum, but salsa allows no more than two hours; beyond that
the gitlab-runner administrators have to change the configuration. So
that means that the current merge request will only work for things that
are limited to a handful of languages.

I have been working on improving the setup to split out a full build
into multiple jobs -- see
https://salsa.debian.org/wouter/webwml/pipelines/19296 for an example.
Since the timeout is per job and not per pipeline, that would work
around this problem. However, it doesn't seem to be working properly
yet; the "make install" step seems to be calling "wml" occasionally,
which means things take time, and we don't want that (because it would
make things time out). I'm not exactly sure whether that's my fault or
the build system's.

I do intent to try to make this all work properly if the interest is
there, but even so the current merge request should already be somewhat
helpful.

> to give a proper answer, but ENOTIME.
> 
> I should have replied even just to say THANKS! 
> 
> The end of the weekend looks promising and I hope I can say something
> more by next week, if nobody beats me to it.

Sure.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: [Delayed] Summary of the web team BoF at DC18

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:51:32AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> I've filed !30 to merge it in.

... and have received absolutely zero responses. Either that means
people don't understand how things work, or I'm missing the ball by so
much it would take a lot of effort to reply and nobody has had the
courage yet to do so.

Which is it?

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: Guided image selection: POC, RFC

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 09:08:58PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> 
> > I'm sure it's possible to do that without JS too. However, I think this
> > is easier to maintain and translate (the whole layout is in a .json file
> > that I intentionally tried to keep simple to understand).
> 
> You could still maintain it in json and use some perl to generate static HTML.

True. A secondary upside of javascript, however, is that it makes for a
more snappy response time (since there are no additional downloads
required). In an interactive "here's a bunch of questions that you may
want to click through quickly", that's a *good* thing.

I think adding javascript for interactivity to our website is a good
idea and we shouldn't be afraid of it. No, we shouldn't make it a
requirement, but that's not what this is.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: Guided image selection: POC, RFC

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 08:13:50AM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote:
> Am 07.12.2017 um 00:31 schrieb Wouter Verhelst:
> >> First thing I noticed: the cursor doesn't change when moving over the
> >> selection options. The cursor should indicate that you can click on the
> >> fields by changing to the usual hover-over-link cursor (no idea how it's
> >> called in webdesign language).
> > 
> > That would be the "cursor:pointer" CSS value. Good point, thanks. Added 
> > that.
> 
> Great, it improves the (my) user experience a lot!
> 
> >>> - After asking questions, it tells you 'this is what you asked for', but
> >>>   it doesn't actually give you the URL, because that part hasn't been
> >>>   implemented yet.
> >>> - There is a button "disable this, give me the full list". Once you
> >>>   click on it, it's gone and there's no way to get it back (other than a
> >>>   page refresh). This may not be ideal.
> >>
> >> In general the navigation needs to be worked on. There should be options
> >> to go back and forth in the walkthrough. That's completely missing so far.
> > 
> > A back button is actually slightly more complicated than I thought at
> > first, but it's a good point and I should add it. I'll work on it some
> > more.
> > 
> > A "start over from scratch" button is reasonably simple though; I've
> > just added that.
> > 
> > I don't think a "go forward" button is useful, and I'm also not sure
> > what it should do, so I'm not adding that.
> 
> I agree that a forward button is not needed. A back button though is
> necessary in my eyes. Honestly I even think that the browser back button
> should work here. It's a bit counter-intuitive that it doesn't. Probably
> that's possible with Javascript, just need to figure out how?
> 
> I thought a bit more about the "disable this screen" button: I don't
> like the current behaviour that it merely disables the javascript
> walkthrough but stays on the same page. That's not very intuitive in my
> eyes. Why not separate the walkthrough and the full list two separate
> pages with separate URLs? I think that would be more intuitive.

Yeah, that's probably a good point. Hadn't thought about that much.

An alternative could be to have the javascript be an overlay popup; that
is, the original content remains on the page, but the selection menu
just shows over that content. That way it's obvious that the back button
will remove page in the back.

There would not be much need to have it on the "releases" page at that
point anymore though. I'm thinking it might make more sense to have it
behind the "Download debian" button on the intro page, and have the js
live there instead.

I'll look at that this weekend.

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Re: Guided image selection: POC, RFC

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 04:11:17PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Wouter Verhelst <wou...@debian.org> wrote:
> 
> > I spent much of today on a bit of Javascript to guide a user through
> > selecting the right image for his or her use case; the idea being that
> > we'd ask them a few questions, and then say "this is the image you'll
> > need to download if you want to install Debian like that".
> 
> BTW, the guided Tails install pages achieve that without JS:
> 
> https://tails.boum.org/install/

I'm sure it's possible to do that without JS too. However, I think this
is easier to maintain and translate (the whole layout is in a .json file
that I intentionally tried to keep simple to understand).

> > So. Thoughts? Does this look like something useful?
> 
> Yes, definitely a good idea.

Thanks.

-- 
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Re: Guided image selection: POC, RFC

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 10:56:43PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote:
> Hi Wouter,
> 
> 
> Thumbs up for taking action and working on a practical solution to the
> problems discussed on debian-devel@l.d.o!
> 
> 
> > I spent much of today on a bit of Javascript to guide a user through
> > selecting the right image for his or her use case; the idea being that
> > we'd ask them a few questions, and then say "this is the image you'll
> > need to download if you want to install Debian like that".>
> > A proof of concept is up at
> > http://latin.grep.be/~wouter/debian-www/releases/stable/debian-installer/
> 
> 
> I quite like the idea of such a walkthrough. In my eyes it would be a
> great improvement to the current situation and I'm in favor of further
> developing it as our new download page.
> 
> As you wrote yourself, it's quite rough at the moment, but that can be
> fixed :)

Right :-)

> > If people like this, it will require some more work before it can go
> > live. In particular:
> > - It currently has no visual appeal. Someone with better graphical
> >   design skills than myself will have to fix that.
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot help either here ;)
> 
> First thing I noticed: the cursor doesn't change when moving over the
> selection options. The cursor should indicate that you can click on the
> fields by changing to the usual hover-over-link cursor (no idea how it's
> called in webdesign language).

That would be the "cursor:pointer" CSS value. Good point, thanks. Added that.

> > - After asking questions, it tells you 'this is what you asked for', but
> >   it doesn't actually give you the URL, because that part hasn't been
> >   implemented yet.
> > - There is a button "disable this, give me the full list". Once you
> >   click on it, it's gone and there's no way to get it back (other than a
> >   page refresh). This may not be ideal.
> 
> In general the navigation needs to be worked on. There should be options
> to go back and forth in the walkthrough. That's completely missing so far.

A back button is actually slightly more complicated than I thought at
first, but it's a good point and I should add it. I'll work on it some
more.

A "start over from scratch" button is reasonably simple though; I've
just added that.

I don't think a "go forward" button is useful, and I'm also not sure
what it should do, so I'm not adding that.

> > I decided not to spend too much time on that now though, since I thought
> > it would make more sense to show what I've got so far and ask for
> > people's thoughts.
> 
> Again, great that you actually started working on it. As said above, I
> like the idea.

Thanks.

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Guided image selection: POC, RFC

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

I spent much of today on a bit of Javascript to guide a user through
selecting the right image for his or her use case; the idea being that
we'd ask them a few questions, and then say "this is the image you'll
need to download if you want to install Debian like that".

A proof of concept is up at
http://latin.grep.be/~wouter/debian-www/releases/stable/debian-installer/

If people like this, it will require some more work before it can go
live. In particular:
- It currently has no visual appeal. Someone with better graphical
  design skills than myself will have to fix that.
- After asking questions, it tells you 'this is what you asked for', but
  it doesn't actually give you the URL, because that part hasn't been
  implemented yet.
- There is a button "disable this, give me the full list". Once you
  click on it, it's gone and there's no way to get it back (other than a
  page refresh). This may not be ideal.
- There may be a need to improve some of the language in the questions.
- This adds two files, a .js file and a .json file. The first contains the
  logic of showing the buttons etc and should not need to be localized
  (although there are some direct strings currently, and they will need
  to be moved elsewhere); the second contains the questions that should
  be asked and what their effect should be. It may be necessary to
  either generate the second in such a way that it can be localized, or
  update my makefile rule so that the localized .json files are stored
  and copied from the right language-specific directory.

I decided not to spend too much time on that now though, since I thought
it would make more sense to show what I've got so far and ask for
people's thoughts.

So. Thoughts? Does this look like something useful? Should I spend more
time on finishing it up and possibly adding it to the website proper?

Thanks,

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[PATCH] Remove extraneous / at end of URL

[Wouter Verhelst]

packages.d.o currently produces URLs with two consecutive / characters
in it.

Since the apache configuration for ftp-master.metadata.d.o decides upon
the content-type by a URL LocationMatch configuration item, the extra /
produces a URL which does not match the regex; as a result, the file
gets served without a Content-Type header.

RFC2616 specifies that if no charset is specified, the default is
ISO-8859-1, which in the case of Debian changeslogs is wrong; they're
specified as UTF-8.
---
 templates/config.tmpl | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/templates/config.tmpl b/templates/config.tmpl
index 3f64edf..3f4e39f 100644
--- a/templates/config.tmpl
+++ b/templates/config.tmpl
@@ -19,7 +19,7 @@
security_mirror = 'security.debian.org'
security_mirror_url = security_mirror _ '/debian-security'
security_suite_suffix = '/updates'
-   changelogs_url = 'http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/'
+   changelogs_url = 'http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs'
policy_url = 'https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/'
cn_help_url = project_homepage _ 'intro/cn'
patch_tracking_url = 'http://sources.debian.net/patches/summary'
-- 
2.9.3

Re: CVS webwml/french/CD/jigdo-cd

[Wouter Verhelst]

On 07-05-13 23:59, CVS User taffit wrote:
 Update of /cvs/webwml/webwml/french/CD/jigdo-cd
 In directory vasks:/tmp/cvs-serv10565/french/CD/jigdo-cd
 
 Modified Files:
   index.wml 
 Log Message:
 Wouter should use ./smart_change.pl in order to actually “Bump 
 translations, too�

I did, but in a different commit (I forgot about translations and about
smart_change until after I had committed the english version). Does that
matter? If not, then I would think that's a bug in smart_change.pl.

-- 
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If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you
will not go to space today.

  -- http://xkcd.com/1133/


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Re: debian to grow up

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 07:05:00PM -0400, n...@myself.com wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I'm not reporting any bug or whatever... I'm a software engineer and I want
 to get involved in open source, I'm using it exclusively at home since 3years
 and for me it is time to give my contribution. Leaving in Belgium and working
 for a company but I'll have time to write some drivers or whatever software
 you want if I get your requirements... Of course this will be a kind of hobby
 so don't tell me about Java. Just talk C, C++ can be ok also ;-)

If you wish to help working on Debian, see
http://www.debian.org/devel/join/; this page lists how you can help,
and what steps you need to take to do it.

 I've already developped a library to trace anything you want. Just need to
 add it to your code and it will tell you what happen when in which source
 file and at which line!!! Still in C or C++ of course ;-)

If you would like to add this library to Debian, you could package it
and try looking for a sponsor; that page also links to an explanation of
how this is supposed to work.

Thanks for volunteering,

-- 
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trying to fool the system.
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Re: integrating Debian GNU/kFreeBSD into InstallingDebianOn?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 03:13:53PM +0700, Paul Wise wrote:
 On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 08:58 +0100, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
 
  Concerning povray, I had forgotten (or did not realize)
  that it is non-free. I am aware that there are some
  licensing issues with the beta version, but did not
  imagine that the stable version was anything other than
  open source...
 
 povray releases source code, but has never been free software. There was
 a plan to rectify that for povray 4 by relicensing stuff where possible
 and rewriting the rest of the code. Last I saw the povray folks haven't
 released 3.7,

Yes, but they are working on it. All new code must be released under
GPL3+, and 3.7 has seen a semi-rewrite of some core bits from C to C++.
Last I checked those bits were buggy as hell though, so I guess that's
why they haven't released it yet.

-- 
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works because there's a guard with a large gun making sure no one is
trying to fool the system.
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Re: integrating Debian GNU/kFreeBSD into InstallingDebianOn?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:25:46AM +0100, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
 Some applications are simply missing and compile (and run)
 seemingly without problems from Debian sources. One such
 example that I have found is povray. Why is this so?

povray is in non-free; it is very much possible that there simply is no
non-free autobuilder for kfreebsd.

 I currently do not have a good idea of all that is missing
 as I am hardly using this machine for the moment
 (at least until konsole gets fixed, as I find it awkward
 to revert to using xterm...).

urxvt ftw!

 I remain optimistic, but find the Debian announcement
 to be just a little premature. I went through a similar
 (thankfully short-lived) experience during the introduction
 of KDE4.

Note that unstable is a development system; it is not unexpected that
things break there every once in a while.

As long as they are fixed before the release (and with the freeze, that
is very much doable), I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

-- 
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works because there's a guard with a large gun making sure no one is
trying to fool the system.
  http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/01/biometrics.html


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Re: Addition for Debian -- Ports

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 07:52:36PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
 Hi,
 
 The web page, Debian -- Ports, lists a few non-linux examples of Debian:
   http://www.debian.org/ports/
 
 Nexenta is apparently Debian on top of the OpenSolaris kernel:
   http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki
 
 I don't use it or have anything to do with it, but I like the idea and
 think it could be in the list with the others.

That page only lists ports that are officially part of the Debian
project. Nexenta, while Debian-based, is a separate project, so it isn't
listed.

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Re: New *Improved* Developer Locations map

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2007 at 10:49:13PM -0400, James Treacy wrote:
 Hello all,
 I was not alone in not being completely happy with the second version
 of the developer map so I bit the bullet and wrote my own program to
 aggregate high concentrations of developers. The results can be found
 in http://people.debian.org/~treacy/developer-locations.html . For

It works nicely, but it's pretty large here; about 30% of the map widget
is invisible below the bottom of my browser window.

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Bug#103975: Sherlock searchability (Mozilla 'Search' sidebar)

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2007 at 12:32:02AM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
 Hi Kevin!
 
 You wrote:
 
  Hi.  I think it'd be just swell if you could search packages.debian.org
  and the bugs database through the 'Search' sidebar in Mozilla.  And, in
  fact, one can without too much effort.  (See attatched Sherlock
  extension files.)  But it would work even BETTER with just a little help
  from the server side of things.
 
 I'm currently cleaning out old bugs for the debian webpages, and I
 encountered this request [1], which you submitted back in 2001.  Could
 you please take a look at it and see if it's still relevant?  AFAIK,
 firefox doesn't have a  search sidebar anymore, so it seems that this
 bug can be safely closed.  What do you think?

Firefox *does* have a search box (as does IE7, IIRC). You can add
search engines there, too. For example, all pages on the english
wikipedia contain this in their head section:

link rel=search type=application/opensearchdescription+xml 
href=/w/opensearch_desc.php title=Wikipedia (English)

with /w/opensearch_desc.php being:

?xml version=1.0?
OpenSearchDescription xmlns=http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearch/1.1/;
ShortNameWikipedia (English)/ShortName
DescriptionWikipedia (English)/Description
Image height=16 width=16 
type=image/x-iconhttp://en.wikipedia.org/favicon.ico/Image
Url type=text/html method=get 
template=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Searchamp;search={searchTerms}/
Url type=application/x-suggestions+json method=GET 
template=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=opensearchamp;search={searchTerms}/
/OpenSearchDescription

This should be easy enough to adapt, I guess.

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Re: etch-m68k on packages.d.o

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 11:23:13AM +0200, Frank Lichtenheld wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 04:32:31PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
  Would it be possible to add etch-m68k to the interface at
  packages.debian.org? That could be helpful.
 
 Certainly.
 I have two questions though:
 
 1) etch-m68k contains a source/ directory which is currently
identical to the one of etch. Do I need to prepare for it to
differ from etch's?

Yes; it could eventually differ from etch, when necessary to allow
software to build on m68k.

 2) I would add m68k just as a normal etch architecture, similar how I
handled amd64 for sarge. Do you see any problems with that?

Not really, as m68k isn't in etch anyway. What problems could there
be?

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etch-m68k on packages.d.o

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

Would it be possible to add etch-m68k to the interface at
packages.debian.org? That could be helpful.

If that's not possible, can someone explain to me how I can set up a
similar site on my own system?

Thanks,

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Re: A contest for a new css

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:31:00AM +0100, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
 Hi Mathieu!
 Hi! I steal think that debian has, unfortunatly, the less beautiful
 website of all major distributions. I already submited some artworks I
 did on this mailling list[1], but not everyone liked it.  All right, I
 may not be the best webdesigner around here, so what about launching a
 contest ? :)
 
 Actually, that's not a bad idea at all.

I agree. Another option could be to make it a summer of code project;
the FreeBSD project did that last year, and look at their website now!
:-)

 There are lots of people in the past who have suggested that that
 would like to change the layout a bit, so why not give people a change
 to see what they come up with.
 
 However, if we want to create such a content, I think it is important
 to state in advance what kind of limitations we want.  For example,
 validating XTHML,

FWIW, we already have that bit today.

 clear separation of content and layout, working in all browsers, no
 frames, no javascript, no dynamic pages, needs to fit in the current
 wml building scheme and translation practise, etc.
 
 What do you guys think?

I'm all for it.

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Re: Setting up a staging ground for etch release

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 04:49:13PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
 Gustavo Franco wrote:
  Closing, just a vague idea but maybe it would be good to test into
  debian.org/devel/debian-installer. Couldn't we add something like
  mozilla that suggests a download based on the browser information ?
  (eg.: If i log into the page using my ibook, show my only the ppc
  images available and a link to the others). Thoughts?
 
 This requires active pages,

Not necessarily; a bit of javascript could work (provided, of course,
that the content is still visible even if javascript is not enabled or
available).

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Re: Who is actively porting the Debian architectures?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:51:01PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
 I'm not sure what the criteria are for listing on that page?  I've no
 involvement with the buildds or anything - all the PowerPC stuff I've
 ever done has been to do with porting user space applications and
 testing.

That is porting. There is little porting work in buildd maintenance; all
you ever do is sign successful logs, interpret failures, and file
appropriate bugs (although many buildd maintainers, myself included,
seem to think the last part is optional when they are swamped with other
work)

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Re: New Debian Site

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 08:45:10AM +0200, Jens Seidel wrote:
  4) Last I would also put a print page in each page so that users don't
  have to
  print with all the colors in the way. (this can be easily done with CSSs.)
 
 I would not like this. Each browser has a printing function and there
 exists also tools such as html2ps. If you want avoid printing colors just
 select the monochrome printer spooler!?

There are things that are totally useless on a printout of a webpage.
The blue menu on the main page, the options to select another language
or mirror, etc, make no sense on a printout. It is sensible to hide them
there.

That does not require using a print this page or printer-friendly
version link; CSS has media types which allow you to modify the
lay-out of a page depending on whether you're viewing it in a graphical
browser, printing it out, or using a speech synthesizer to listen to it
(for the blind). I believe this is what was being referred to, rather
than one of those totally broken links that you seen on so many
webpages these days.

If you want to see this in action: firefox understands the difference
between media types (at least the difference between view in graphical
browser and print out), and Wikipedia has media type support in their
CSS. Just ask for a print preview in firefox of any wikipedia page, and
you'll see what is being meant here.

  Please let me know your opinions and, if appreciated by the web developing
  team,
  weather you are able to modify the site to implement these features.
 
 You should always rely on others. We can give hints and maybe agree on a
 solution, but you should maybe show us your results too.

Eh, doesn't the paragraph above miss a not here?

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Re: Help offered

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 12:30:11AM +0200, HXC wrote:
 I would like to help with the debian.org website. I have a bachelor 
 degree in communication management. Is there help needed and if so where 
 do I start / who do I contact?

Help is always welcome; but there is no real list of things that need to
be done urgently. If you have specific ideas and patches, you're welcome
to post them here. Just note that the Debian website is written in wml,
and this will not likely be changed any time soon.

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Re: suggestion of a new page on Debian.org

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Jul 23, 2006 at 06:42:04PM -0400, andrei raevsky wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to write a number of book reviews for Debian.org about
 the new Debian books recently published in English, French and German.
 
 Alas - I do not know sgml nor have I physically have the possibility
 to dedicate any time to learn it.
 
 Lastly, since these book reviews would be about 2-4 paragraphs in
 length each they would be longer than the ones currently on
 http://www.debian.org/doc/books.  Do you think it would be possible
 for you to create a separate page with these reviews?

Perhaps.

However, I'm not entirely sure it would be a good idea to publish such
reviews on the Debian website. Debian has always tried to remain neutral
in mentioning products and services relating to Debian, whether these
products are CD-ROM disks, consultancy services, or books; this is
because Debian cannot afford having an opinion about these products
and/or services.

That being said, I do not think that there is anything wrong with Debian
linking to reviews about Debian-related books, provided it is made
properly clear that these reviews as should not be seen as Debian's
opinion, and that other reviews will be added on request, or something
similar.

 Sorry that I cannot do it all myself and send you a fully
 publication-ready sgmled product, but I can only offer to help the
 Debian Project with the skills I have.

That is really the best any of us can do.

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CIA

[Wouter Verhelst]

Hi,

The WWW repository used to have CIA messages, but that seems to be gone
now since the compromise. I assume this is a known issue, but I wanted
to mention it just in case it isn't.

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Re: Suggestions For The Website

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 12:16:11PM +0200, kailander wrote:
 Hi

Hi,

 Sorry if I made you angry.

Though of course I can't speak for anyone but myself, I don't think you
did in fact make anyone angry. It's just that you're not the first one
to suggest changes which do not fit with our way of doing things, and
sometimes having to repeat the same arguments over and over again
becomes tiresome.

We have a certain philosophy about our website, and it is different from
what is commonly accepted to be best practice (mainly because we care
less about Internet Explorer than would be the case for
commercially-developed websites, and because we care more about correct
HTML/CSS use than seems to be the case for most of those websites).

Within that philosophy, however, all suggestions are welcome; and if
they make sense, there is no particular reason why any suggested change
would be rejected.

 I really appreciate all the efforts that you make to maintain this
 website, but i was just enthusiastic about this you know.

So are we :-)

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Re: price of the 3 debian cds much more expensive than what it is told on the website

[Wouter Verhelst]

[debian-www isn't really the most appropriate list for this type of
question; adding debian-user to the Cc list. Please direct replies, if
any, there, removing debian-www from the list]

On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 11:30:52AM +0200, bruno doutriaux wrote:
 je pense que j'aurais pu vous parler en français ? n'est-ce pas ?
 car vous semblez avoir un nom français.

Perhaps, but then please not on the main Debian lists. Not everyone
speaks french here (there are some french Debian lists).

 2006/6/13, bruno doutriaux [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 ok, thanks for the link.
 i will maybe download kubuntu. what is the difference between debian sarge
 and ubuntu or kubuntu ?
 (i know that ubuntu uses gnome and that kubuntu uses kde).
 what is the gui of debian sarge ? is it multi-gui ?
 thanks.
 bruno doutriaux

Ubuntu and Kubuntu are not Debian; while based on Debian, they really
are different distributions, with different goals.

The main differences are the fact that Ubuntu (and its sisters kubuntu
and edubuntu) have strict 6-month release cycles, while Debian does not;
and the fact that the default Ubuntu installation has a lot more choices
made for you already, whereas a Debian system makes less of those.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages; for example, Debian will
release when it's ready, meaning that the release will be delayed if
there are too many bugs still open. While I don't expect that Ubuntu
will ship with many bugs, they are a bit laxer in this. Of course, that
also means that you can never tell for sure when the release will
happen, and that our release cycles typically take longer (so the
software in the latest release is, on average, older than the one in the
latest Ubuntu release).

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Re: m68k on packages.d.o

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 04:55:56AM +0200, Frank Lichtenheld wrote:
 On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 08:19:00PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
  For some reason, m68k is no longer listed on the initial page with
  distributions and versions that one gets if one searches for a package.
  Could anyone please have a look as to what's going on here?
 
 I think I identified the problem. If I manage to commit the fix *keep
 fingers crossed* it should be fixed soon.

Yes, it's working again. Thanks!

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Re: Contact from Buenos Aires (Argentina)

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Apr 02, 2006 at 03:55:01PM -0300, Sergio Damián Steinberg wrote:
 Hi:
 I am writing you because I am trying to contact you because I want a
 copy of Debian and a book ins spanish about debian (can be printed or
 PDF, doesn´t matter).
 On March 25 was Flisol 2006 and there the differents LUG´s of Latin
 America installed differnt kind of GNU/Linux and I asked for Debian
 Stable but I forget to ask for a copy and no one sell me a copy of
 Debian and I´d try to contact but nobady answer the phones and
 e-mails.

Debian can be downloaded from the Internet, or bought from a number of
CD vendors. For more information, go to http://www.debian.org/distrib/

I'm not very familiar with Spanish books about Debian, so I can't help
you there.

 And I need to know how to config LinuxWias on Debian because all the
 information that I get is for RedHat and Mandrake.

[LinuxWias appears to be a driver to connect to the Internet using
Velocom, an argentinian ISP]

LinuxWias apparently isn't packaged for Debian. The easies thing you can
do is to install the alien package, and convert the RPM to a Debian
package using alien -c linuxwias*rpm (once you have it downloaded);
after that, install it using dpkg -i linuxwias*deb

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Re: Installation hitch

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 11:01:20PM -0800, sphitz wrote:
 Hi debian folks,
 
 I'm trying to install debian on a Dell Dimension E310 from a recently burned
 net install disc, i386 Binary 1.  Strangely, during the initial phase of the
 installation I can use the keyboard to select from the menu, but as soon as
 I go to install, I lose the ability to use the keyboard when the language
 selection screen appears.
 
 Can you help me trouble shoot this?

You should ask your question on debian-user, which is our user support
mailing list. This list is only for things related to the Debian
website.

I've Cc'ed debian-user.

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Re: http://www.debian.gr.jp/~kitame/maint.rhtml down

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 04:14:16PM +0900, Takuo KITAME wrote:
 2006-02-12 (日) の 22:13 -0800 に Matt Kraai さんは書きました:
  On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 09:17:02PM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
   The link http://www.debian.gr.jp/~kitame/maint.rhtml on 
   http://www.us.debian.org/devel/ hasn't worked for weeks or even 
   months.  Please check it out or remove it.
  
  Thanks for reporting this.
  
  Takuo, is this page going to return soon?
 
 No.
 www.debian.gr.jp had been closed due to disk trouble.
 all data has gone...

Hmm. I do have a copy of (almost) all your CSV files, up to
20060106.csv, which I used to produce
http://people.debian.org/~wouter/charts. If you want, I can tar them up
and send them to you...

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Re: Unterstützend e Informationen

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 05:10:11PM +0100, Richard Atterer wrote:
 Hallo, dies ist eine englische Mailingliste, deswegen werde ich auf 
 Englisch antworten!
 
 On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 11:54:23AM -, Manfred Schoenrogg wrote:
  Wir wären Ihnen sehr dankbar, wenn Sie uns ungefähre Zahlen über die im 
  Einsatz befindlichen Debian Systeme zur Verfügung stellen könnten
 [How many Debian systems are used in production?]
 
 We don't have detailed numbers - our software doesn't phone home so we 
 cannot count our users. :)
 
 However, consider this:
 http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/12/05/strong_growth_for_debian.html
 http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/28/debian_fastest_growing_linux_distribution.html

You may also want to have a look at our 'users' page:

http://www.debian.org/users/

This list is by no means complete (it is purely voluntary-based), but
should give you an idea as to where and how Debian is used.

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Re: Help needed to get autogb run for chinese pages

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 01:39:30PM +0100, Jutta Wrage wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 Am 17.12.2005 um 11:32 schrieb Wouter Verhelst:
 
 -B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
 +#B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
 +B5TOGB = /usr/bin/autogb -i big5 -o gb
 
 This is exactly the same, I have now all the time. But I get the  
 strange error at build of the very first page already.
 
 make[1]: Leaving directory `/bilder/dwww/webwml/chinese/po'
 wml -q -D CUR_YEAR=2005 -o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:contact.zh- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - 
 o [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --prolog=./bin/ 
 fix_big5.pl  contact.wml
 * Converting: [zh_CN.GB2312], make: *** [contact.zh-hk.html] Fehler 56

Since this is doing stuff with charsets, which sometimes can have locale
issues: What's your locale? Have you tried running it with LC_ALL=C?

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Re: Help needed to get autogb run for chinese pages

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 11:04:46PM +0100, Jutta Wrage wrote:
 I am still searching for help on the chinese does not build on ppc  
 problem.

I can only say 'it works for me', with the following (and, obviously,
installing the right package):

Index: Make.lang
===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/chinese/Make.lang,v
retrieving revision 1.39
diff -u -r1.39 Make.lang
--- Make.lang   15 Aug 2005 02:21:38 -  1.39
+++ Make.lang   17 Dec 2005 10:31:18 -
@@ -16,7 +16,8 @@
 U8TOB5 = $(BIN)/u8tob5
 U8TOGB = $(BIN)/u8togb
 # B5TOGB = ( cat - | $(B5TOU8) | $(U8TOGB) )
-B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
+#B5TOGB = LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(BIN) $(BIN)/autogb -i big5 -o gb
+B5TOGB = /usr/bin/autogb -i big5 -o gb
 TOCN = $(BIN)/tocn.pl
 TOHK = $(BIN)/tohk.pl
 TOTW = $(BIN)/totw.pl

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Bug#341336: www.d.o: link to m68k server which doesn't run an httpd

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2005 at 09:57:57PM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
 Package: www.debian.org
 Version: 20051129
 Severity: normal
 File: http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/
 
 Links on http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/ and other pages to
 http://m68k.debian.org/ are bad; that server apparently doesn't any
 longer serve www clients. 

m68k.d.o is kullervo.d.o, which itself is an m68k machine. It's not
unlikely that this was done on purpose, though I'm not sure at all.

I asked the people responsible for kullervo. If it was done on purpose,
I'll remove the links; otherwise, there's no need :-)

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Bug#341336: www.d.o: link to m68k server which doesn't run an httpd

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2005 at 08:31:54AM -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
 Huh?  Pages off of www.d.o have links to a machine that doesn't accept
 HTTP requests.  Links which one cannot succeed in following are wrong,
 correct?

Sure.

However, if that was not done on purpose, then it would follow that it's
a bug that m68k.d.o doesn't reply to HTTP requests and that bug should
then be fixed... no need to remove links to a page which should be there
but isn't at the moment because of technical issues, is there?

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Re: Reminder: Link exchange with your site http://www.debian.org/intro/free

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 02:57:43PM -0600, Peter Dobler wrote:
 Dear Webmaster,
 
 My name is Peter Dobler, and I run the web site Online Business Idea:
 
 http://www.online-business-idea.com/
 
 The other day I wrote you to let you know I'm very interested in
 exchanging links.

Debian is not in the business of exchanging links, and we won't consider
it. These things are nothing more than scams, which will only incur the
wrath of google (et al) upon you, so that your page will lose all the
PageRank value it otherwise had.

If you really want to increase your PageRank, you should not put up
links to totally unrelated websites.

-- 
.../ -/ ---/ .--./ / .--/ .-/ .../ -/ ../ -./ --./ / -.--/ ---/ ..-/ .-./ / -/
../ --/ ./ / .--/ ../ -/ / / -../ ./ -.-./ ---/ -../ ../ -./ --./ / --/
-.--/ / .../ ../ --./ -./ .-/ -/ ..-/ .-./ ./ .-.-.-/ / --/ ---/ .-./ .../ ./ /
../ .../ / ---/ ..-/ -/ -../ .-/ -/ ./ -../ / -/ ./ -.-./ / -./ ---/ .-../
---/ --./ -.--/ / .-/ -./ -.--/ .--/ .-/ -.--/ .-.-.-/ / ...-.-/


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Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 08:30:38PM -0300, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
 something like this?
 
 http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_2.html

That gives a 404 here...?

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 03:31:21AM -0300, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
 Hello:
 
 I would like to say that I think that debian.org has a lack of design, 
 it looks very poor, almost ugly.
 I believe that this can be fixed, XHTML offer a lot of features which 
 can help.
 
 Is there any plans of renewing the web site?

As with anything in Debian: there are no plans per se, but if someone
wants to do the work, and it is generally agreed upon that the work done
does look good, then it's quite likely that it'll be accepted.

 I have some ideas, ideas related with the appearance, with the design.

You're welcome to demonstrate what you think would look good. One way to
do this would be to check out a copy of Debian's website to your local
hard disk, edit the code any way you see fit, post it on a website that
you control, and ask for comments on this list.

Information on how to do this and how the website is set up can be found
at http://www.debian.org/devel/website/

Currently Jutta Wrage is working on converting the site so that it
complies with HTML strict, which could probably be seen as 'renewing'.
Jutta also did most (all?) of the work to introduce CSS in the website
instead of table-based designs. If what you're planning to do has
something to do with that, you may want to coordinate with Jutta.

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Re: Quote signs in debian css - solution for all languages in sight

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, Oct 08, 2005 at 01:12:26PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
 On Saturday 08 October 2005 02:29, Jutta Wrage wrote:
  Here we are. Hope I got everything right: http://
  www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/
 
 Dutch (nl) does not put opening quotes on the baseline.

Actually, it does. It's just never done anymore these days because most
typewriters or computers don't have a separate charachter for those.

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Re: driver package for TRIO 3D/2X

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2005 at 09:03:34AM +0700, Le Minh Nghia wrote:
 Hi administrator!
 
 My computer have been installed by Debian os, but xserver - xfree86 is not
 working.
 
 Although i configured xserver-xfree86 by
 
 dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 but it's failed.
 
 I can not loggin GUI (GNOM or KDE)
 
 Pls tell me the way which can solute the problem

We would need a lot more information to be able to help you out; for
starters, the log of your X server starting up (as found in
/var/log/XFree86.0.log) would be useful (do not attach it to an email!
Put it online somewhere, and give the URL in a followup-email).

Additionally, your question was sent to the wrong mailinglist.
debian-www@lists.debian.org is the list for the webmasters of the Debian
website; for user support questions, debian-user@lists.debian.org is a
far better choice (Cc set; please remove the Cc to debian-www on
followup mails).

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Re: Donation

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 01:19:25AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 08:09:09AM -0700, Matt Kraai wrote:
  On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 12:40:34PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
   On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 12:33:27PM +0100, Wally wrote:
I want to make a donation for debian.org

What would be the minimum amount to get listet with a backlink?
[...]
 Does anyone know if this gentleman ever followed up?

I don't know; however, I'm not sure the offer for a donation was
sincere.

There are quite a number of people requesting Link Exchanges all the
time on -www (presumably to falsifyingly increase their Google
PageRank). Debian does not do this, for very good reasons, and most such
requests aren't even answered anymore.

Recently, people have started to offer donations in exchange for links
on our site. From the tone of those mails, and the sudden silence on
receival of the rejection to list a backlink, which happens almost
every time, I'm afraid most of these prospect donators are really only
interested in the backlink rather than in the donation.

Of course, there may be exceptions; but I don't think we should go after
him and remind him of his offer, or anything.

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Re: Linux Operating System

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 01:27:55PM +0700, Deskha wrote:
 Dear Sir or Madam,
 
 We would like to ask to you about Linux Operating System. Which one 
 operating system that we can pay only one times but it can useful for 
 another PC in the same organization? We are very glad if you would 
 explaining for us about it.

This is not really a question for debian-www; you would have been better
off asking your question on debian-user. Cc set; please respect it.

Anyway. If you're looking for an operating system that you have to pay
only once (if at all) and are allowed to use on all your systems, then
almost every Linux distribution is a good option; the most well-known
exception being current RedHat Enterprise versions.

After all, the nature of the license of most Linux programs requires
that this is possible. Even when using RedHat, you are allowed to use at
least parts of the system on another machine.

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Re: Get this piece of shit off my site

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 01:05:56PM -0500, kevin gallagher wrote:
 get this shit off my computer

I'm not sure what you're talking about. We didn't put anything on your
computer. Debian produces and distributes an operating system that can
run on many computers; it is more likely that your system administrator
installed Debian on your system. Please contact them for more
information; we cannot help you in this.

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Re: take out debian programe in my

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 07:09:13AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 computer.

We can't. Debian does not break into other people's computers and
install stuff there that they didn't ask for; we create an operating
system that can be downloaded and installed, free of charge, by anyone
who wants to.

Since you didn't specify what makes you think that Debian has been
installed on your computer, I can only guess what has happened; it would
perhaps be better if you contact your system administrator or supplier
to help you find out what has happened.

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Re: problem with site

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sat, May 21, 2005 at 07:18:26PM -0700, Drew Kaufman wrote:
 I need to speak with someone at Debian, and there is no phone number.
 Unacceptable.

Hah.

 Please send correspondence to me with a valid phone number to the
 corporate office immediately.

There is none; Debian is a worldwide organization of volunteers, rather
than a corporation.

If you need to talk to someone at Debian, the preferred medium is
usually email. You'll need to pick the right mailinglist depending on
what the subject is; see lists.debian.org for a list of our mailing
lists.

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Re: GTK module for python

[Wouter Verhelst]

[this isn't a question for debian-www; if this doesn't help, please go
to debian-user@lists.debian.org, or, if you're not using Debian, find a
forum for your python distribution]
On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 06:06:16PM +0530, Jagadish K , Bangalore wrote:
 Hi,
 Kindly let me know the site to download gtk python module to import gtk in 
 python.

If you're using Debian, just run 

apt-get install python-gtk

If you're not using Debian, then you should ask those people who gave
you python in the first place.

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Re: New Menubar for www.debian.org - increasing Accessibility

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 01:58:59PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Hi!
 
 As there was a request to make the quicknav at top of debian web pages 
 more accessible, I have worked out two examples fot a new one without 
 images and changable font size.
 
 Please have a look at 
 http://www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/menus/menubar.html and send 
 comments to me or the list.

Well done!

I must say that I don't see any difference between the first and the
second if everything fits on one line; the only difference that I see is
when you resize the window, in which case the second example is simply
better, IMO.

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Re: vote_001: th/td

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op za, 05-03-2005 te 10:27 +0100, schreef Nicolas Bertolissio:
 Hi,
 
 Is there a particular reason why Majority Requirement has th tags
 where other row headers have td?

'th' means 'Table Header', whereas 'td' means 'Table Data'.

Or something like that.

In any case, the 'th' is supposed to be used for title rows, whereas you
would use 'td' for data rows. The markup of title rows is slightly
different, and a renderer that prints out a table to paper might also
repeat the th cells on every page. Moreover, without th cells, lynx
renders a table very ugly, while it is okay if one row with th exists.

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Re: Debian ISO http images

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Feb 20, 2005 at 12:40:51PM +0100, Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo wrote:
 On Sun, Feb 20, 2005 at 12:04:10PM +0200, Sleepwalker wrote:
  Hello debian-www,
  
  I've decided to download Debian Linux. Once I've loaded the mirror,
  there are two cd1 images (debian-30r4-i386-binary-1.iso) and
  (debian-30r4-i386-binary-1_NONUS.iso)... Which of them should I
  download and are they both bootable?
 
 That's rather debian-user question.
 
 Anyway, if you live outside USA then NONUS.iso is the right choice.

If you live inside the USA, then NONUS is the right choice, too.

It's only if you live inside the USA and want to distribute the CD-ROM to
someone who does /not/ live inside the USA that you must use the
NONUS.iso CD-ROM to not be liable to legal troubles.

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Re: debian iso

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op wo, 02-02-2005 te 11:03 -0800, schreef popescu cornel:
 i need linux debian . please send me valid adress to downlode
 debian linux iso

The full list of mirrors can be found here:

http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/

Just pick one that is close to you and start downloading. Note that you
don't need to download all images; if your system is connected to the
Internet on a reasonably fast link, the first image will do.

Alternatively, if you're more interested in trying out the Sarge release
rather than the Woody release, go here:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer

Note, however, that Sarge is a development-class release. Though it
should be almost ready, it may not be what you would expect.

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Re: Fake post

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op za, 01-01-2005 te 09:53 -0800, schreef Adam Tierney:
 Hi, can you please remove the following post:
 
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2000/01/msg00870.html

To get that spam removed, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: new design for debian site

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op za, 18-12-2004 te 00:56 -0800, schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 In my opinion, somes have a fixed idea about site layout.

That's not true; however, we do not necessary think that the current
layout is bad.

It isn't shiny-fancy-super-graphical; however, from a purely functional
point of view, it surely is a good site. Also, the site isn't annoyingly
ugly; it is easy to the eyes -- comparable to a book, in reading
quality.

That's what we find more important than what it looks like; after all,
the Debian website shouldn't look like a painting or a computer game; it
is a purely functional thing for an operating system. It contains the
documentation for our system, it contains an introduction in our
processes, etc. It doesn't need fancy moving graphical features or
something of the like; using those would get us at risk of getting
people annoyed, and we don't want that.

 Sorry to wish contribution.

I think you misunderstood us.

There is nothing wrong with contributing. In fact, contributions is what
Debian thrives on. If you want to contribute by doing a survey, there's
nothing wrong with that; I'm sure people would welcome it, provided it
isn't a one-man-show -- that is, that we can give some input on the
questions you'll ask in your survey. If that survey reveals there are
some issues with the website that could use some improvement, we'll
surely implement them.

It is important to note, though, that the way Debian works is that you
just submit worked out proposals. If you think the website should be
redesigned, you're welcome to go ahead and propose a new layout -- this
can easily be done by mirroring (part of) the website, and working from
there.

If we like the proposed layout, we'll accept it. If we don't, we won't.
It's as simple as that.

If you don't want to redesign the /whole/ website, you're welcome to
suggest improvements on particular bits where you think improvements are
a good idea. These are always welcome -- especially if you provide code
to back up those suggestions.

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Re: new design for debian site

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op vr, 17-12-2004 te 11:45 +0200, schreef F I R A T:
 i post your replies to many art sites. They said me Are They
 Kidding ..?

Debian is not an art project.

 so let us make survey about this issue.

Feel free; don't expect it to have any result, though.

As said, if you have specific ideas, you're welcome to suggest them; but
a meta-discussion about what we /could/ do won't help.

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Re: Message to, Cord

[Wouter Verhelst]

Op vr, 10-12-2004 te 09:24 -0300, schreef Francisco Cesar da Silva:
 I’m sorry to disturb you once more, but, the situation
 is getting really worst here people are still
 contacting me (those who read my address/phone # on
 your site) and I lost my pacience, then they insult me
 and I insult then.

Shit happens.

 If they meet me/come to me and
 injure me (or in an very extreme case even kill me or
 I kill then to defend myself),

Surely you must be joking.

 you must take the
 responsability.

Only if you can convince a judge that it's Debian's fault that people
were killed. Good luck.

It's Debian's policy not to remove data from its list archives. /ever/.
That includes data which you don't want to be there, or even sensitive
data.

If you don't want to have it appear online, you shouldn't have sent it
in the first place.

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NixSys BVBA
Louizastraat 14, 2800 Mechelen
T:+32 15 27 69 50 / F:+32 15 27 60 51 / M:+32 486 836 198

Re: Providing documentation for developers (in the website) related to the buildd network

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 10:59:19AM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 
 After trying to build my own autobuilder machine at home [1] I've found 
 that there's not that much documentation on how the buildd network works, 
 and it's quite spread out (in different locations, including mailing lists 
 and people.debian.org directories)

Indeed.

 I'm considering uploading the attached content to the webwml sources (i.e. 
 the Debian website) at w.d.o/debian/buildd/.

As most of this content is developer-oriented, shouldn't this be
/devel/buildd/ ?

 This information tries to complement the information available
 elsewhere (i.e. buildd.debian.org, the Developer's Reference) and
 aggregate some of the information produced by developers
 (people.debian.org stuff). That's why some of you are in the mail so
 you can review and approve the reuse of your content.

 I would appreciate some comments on the content attached (html pages 
 provided for convenience, local hyperlinks will not work due to how the 
 website builds for content negotiation). If no one objects I will upload 
 this to the website shortly.

I have no problem with my content being reused for www.debian.org;
however, in that case I would appreciate it if I could maintain it
there (i.e., if someone could give me CVS access).

However, one little correction:

--- index.wml.orig  2004-11-08 11:46:02.670732286 +0100
+++ index.wml   2004-11-08 11:47:55.032348605 +0100
@@ -57,7 +57,8 @@
 for all architectures (in state emNeeds-Build/em).
 Build machines will query the build database for packages in this state,
 and will routinely take packages from that list. The list is
-is prioritized by urgency and number of packages build-depending on a package.
+is prioritized by previous compilation state, priority, section, and finally
+package name.

 PIf the build succeeds in all architectures, the maintainer will not
 need to do anything. All those binary packages will be uploaded to the

The idea that this list would be prioritized by urgency is a myth which
was sent into the world by my people.d.o page; however, it is incorrect.

 The only reason I'm doing this is because I think there's not enough 
 developer-oriented information on how buildd works (both the software and 
 the network) and I would rather have this in a single place than spread out 
 in multiple locations.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I wanted to do this a while ago, but
never got around to actually do it. Thanks for taking this up.

 Also, it would be nice to write some additional information on both where 
 to obtain the software (buildd was previously available at db.debian.org, 
 but it seems to not be there any longer)

No, there simply is no source package, and it is therefore not
referenced in the Sources file available on db.debian.org.

However, if you check the version number of the package in the Packages
file, and check where the Sources file has its base URL, you can
download the source tarball.

I agree that it would be better if the source would be readily
downloadable, but that is currently not the case.

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Re: Providing documentation for developers (in the website) related to the buildd network

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 01:47:29PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 11:54:15AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
   I'm considering uploading the attached content to the webwml sources 
   (i.e. 
   the Debian website) at w.d.o/debian/buildd/.
  
  As most of this content is developer-oriented, shouldn't this be
  /devel/buildd/ ?
 
 A. Correct, it's devel/buildd (and that's where I have it in my local 
 sources, the previous reference was a typo)

Okay :)

  I have no problem with my content being reused for www.debian.org;
  however, in that case I would appreciate it if I could maintain it
  there (i.e., if someone could give me CVS access).
 
 I cannot provide that access, but I'm sure the www maintainers would gladly 
 give it to you once this has been setup.

Whom do I ask?

[...]
  However, if you check the version number of the package in the Packages
  file, and check where the Sources file has its base URL, you can
  download the source tarball.
 
 I can't find the package in the sid Packages file, is it 'buildd'?

In the db.debian.org packages file, not the sid one.

wget http://db.debian.org/debian-admin/Packages

look for 'buildd' in Packages, and see what the version number is.
construct a file name 'wanna-build_' plus the version number of buildd
as found in Packages.

wget http://db.debian.org/debian-admin/wanna-build_$version.tgz

 A previous mail from you [1] points to http://db.debian.org/debian-admin/ 
 but that location is not available any more (I believe you are already 
 aware of that)
 
  I agree that it would be better if the source would be readily
  downloadable, but that is currently not the case.
 
 Yes, most unfortunate. I've been able to find a buildd package, however, at
 http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/buildd/
 
 I wonder if this one is recommended/used?

Neither am I.

 [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/06/msg007006.html

That link renders a 404.

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