Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Kubota-san, I do not think we are too far in what we wish to achieve. Your statement left me with a feel that I am labeled as an individual who is forcing western convention. If you are thinking me as such, I can assure you I am a complete opposite. On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 11:48:35AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: Is Given Family order related to English (or Western) language? I do not care about this question because it does not change my thought at all. ... Please remember that it is a well established convention for Japanese name to be flipped in English or French context upon translation. That was my point. I guess if translated into Hungarian or Chinese, we should use surname first as the translation convention. I know that convention. So you agree with me. I only pointed out this to avoid confusion which may have been caused by Oohara-san's comment. Convention only disctates what is the most likely event but that is not binding rule. Neither Japanese nor English speaker nor any collective entity should force their convention to the individual. These choice shall be a _personal_ choice of a person addressed. At the same time, when one defies convention, one should expect people's reaction. One has to kindly tell ones wish to defy convention. Any fair organization should respect these personal choices and to support these wishes to the extent possible. I do not think we need to twist the fact on convention to achieve our goal. We can always neglect convention and respect individual wishes. I cannot imagine a restaurant which is located at all countries or international restaurant. However, our project is international. I know plenty of restaurants located in almost all countries(*). But so what. I do not want Debian to become like that. Oops, we are getting too off-topic, here. (*) For example, the fast food chain starting with big-M. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 11:48:35AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: [...] I know that convention. However, the convention is related to Japanese people's custom, not western languages. It is proved by your example of Hungarian or Chinese. Thus, it is Japanese people (not English speakers) who have right to determine how to write Japanese people's name in English. [...] So we need a new db field containing the representation chosen by developers for their name. Denis
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 03:44:44PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /KELEMEN Peter (.+)/io) {
- $lastname = 'Kelemen'; $firstname = 'Peter'; $email =
$1;
Dah, it is minus. No wonder.
Err... the last chunk of his patch implemented the all-caps-means-surname,
so he also added chunks to remove manual overrides for that.
I must have been tired :-(
--
~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ +
Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32
.''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers
: :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu
`. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 01:15:16AM +0900, Oohara Yuuma wrote: cn: Oohara sn: Yuuma ... There does seem to be an error in Yuuma Oohara's entry, though -- cn and sn are reversed. This email is Cc:ed to the developer and debian-admin so that the error can be verified and then fixed. I don't know what cn and sn are. cn = Christian name, sn = surname? The real problem of this form is it does not accommodate people who do not have surname. I think people in Burma have honoring title but no surname. It is my academic curiosity :-) My family name is Oohara and my personal name is Yuuma. I am _not_ Yuuma Oohara -- in Japan a family name comes before a personal name. I know some minority of Japanese people wish to be called the same order in English/French context as ithey do in Japanese context. That is fine as preference but you are stretching too far and twisting the fact. All you had to say was I prefer to be called Oohara Yuuma I am sorry but I have to remind you that you are very likely to be called officially Yuuma Oohara in the letters your government issues in English or French. That may be where you have to fight :-) I do not understand why you are so picky on this issue here ? The NM application form insisted on the personal-name-family-name order, so it may be the cause of the bug. Form is form. Just follow the instruction. You will be surprised to find many US official forms use surname first, given name second, and middle name initial last format. As long as each entry is clearly marked, I see no issues. I see no major threat of cultural imperialism here either. So relax. Japan exports enough pop-culture trashes these days. Video games, anime, to name a few ... The name order will not trash Japanese culture. I don't see any point in splitting a developer's name into the family name and the personal name, but it is another issue. I guess many others see differently. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Hi, From: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0800 My family name is Oohara and my personal name is Yuuma. I am _not_ Yuuma Oohara -- in Japan a family name comes before a personal name. I know some minority of Japanese people wish to be called the same order in English/French context as ithey do in Japanese context. That is fine as preference but you are stretching too far and twisting the fact. Though I don't adopt this method myself, I understand what they insist. For example, when I search by using Google the current Korean president: Dae Jung Kim 2130 hits Kim Dae Jung 98000 hits You know, Kim is family name and Dae Jung is given name and the native order of Korean is Family Given. This means that Korean people preserve their name order even in alphabet transliteration. Then, why not Japanese? I don't want to think that you think Western culture is international and eastern culture is local, so eastern people must act in western way in international projects such as Debian. I know this result shows only one aspect of this problem. This is just an example of what they say. My own opinion is that I don't want to discuss the real contents of this problem. I just want to ask respecting way of thinking of each developer. All you had to say was I prefer to be called Oohara Yuuma I am sorry but I have to remind you that you are very likely to be called officially Yuuma Oohara in the letters your government issues in English or French. That may be where you have to fight :-) I do not understand why you are so picky on this issue here ? England and France are only two countries in the world. They don't have rights to determine international way to do something. If we were developing English or French localized distribution, you would be right. The NM application form insisted on the personal-name-family-name order, so it may be the cause of the bug. Form is form. Just follow the instruction. If this is a bug, or at least may cause a confusion, let us think about improvement. For example, adding a note Please input your given name and family name in the form regardless of your native order of name. If we don't have to know which part is given name and which is family name, it is a good idea to have only one form to input the whole name. In this case, the order is completely free. You will be surprised to find many US official forms use surname first, given name second, and middle name initial last format. As long as each entry is clearly marked, I see no issues. I see no major threat of cultural imperialism here either. So relax. Japan exports enough pop-culture trashes these days. Video games, anime, to name a few ... The name order will not trash Japanese culture. I don't see any point in splitting a developer's name into the family name and the personal name, but it is another issue. I guess many others see differently. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
* Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-01-31 18:51]: From: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0800 Uhm, please try to produce a sensible way for an attribution line -- I guess a beast like emacs must be able to do so. I am sorry but I have to remind you that you are very likely to be called officially Yuuma Oohara in the letters your government issues in English or French. That may be where you have to fight :-) I do not understand why you are so picky on this issue here ? England and France are only two countries in the world. Osamu wasn't taking about the countries here, he was refering to the language. Form is form. Just follow the instruction. If this is a bug, or at least may cause a confusion, let us think about improvement. If we confuse people that _don't read_ I simply can live with it. A form usually have it stated what you should enter right next to it. For example, adding a note Please input your given name and family name in the form regardless of your native order of name. That's a sensless defiant statement. If the form has written next to it what should be inserted why do you think adding another note about it would make people that don't read grok it better? If we don't have to know which part is given name and which is family name, it is a good idea to have only one form to input the whole name. In this case, the order is completely free. But we should now, imho. [39 lines of not needed stuff after your last line deleted] Please don't leave in huge chunks of junk that don't add to the mail, it just confuses people figuring out why you left them in. Have fun. Alfie -- Netscape is not a newsreader, and probably never shall be. -- Tom Christiansen pgpm2Z8hmaiXX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 06:51:40PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: I am sorry but I have to remind you that you are very likely to be called officially Yuuma Oohara in the letters your government issues in English or French. That may be where you have to fight :-) I do not understand why you are so picky on this issue here ? England and France are only two countries in the world. They don't have rights to determine international way to do something. If we were developing English or French localized distribution, you would be right. The correct approach here is to make the system internationalized, so we won't have to share the same format among different languages. The English, the French, the Japanese, and everybody else for that matter, will be able to use their own preferred format for displaying the names. There would be no conflict. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
I think some misunderstanding happened. On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 06:51:40PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: From: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] From Oohara Yuuma My family name is Oohara and my personal name is Yuuma. I am _not_ Yuuma Oohara -- in Japan a family name comes before a personal name. I know some minority of Japanese people wish to be called the same order in English/French context as they do in Japanese context. That is fine as preference but you are stretching too far and twisting the fact. ... This means that Korean people preserve their name order even in alphabet transliteration. Then, why not Japanese? I don't want to think that you think Western culture is international and eastern culture is local, so eastern people must act in western way in international projects such as Debian. ... I think we are talking 2 separate issues. 1. How people should be addressed? 2. What is the convention of name translation? I can assure you that I do not think Western culture is international since I am living in, err... , hostile cultural environment :-) If Oohara Yuuma said In Japan a family name comes before a personal name in _Japanese_ _language_ context. I want to retain the same order in English context too., it was not stretching the fact. I am all for respecting his defiance wish to the Japanese translation convention. Please remember that it is a well established convention for Japanese name to be flipped in English or French context upon translation. That was my point. I guess if translated into Hungarian or Chinese, we should use surname first as the translation convention. PS: Boy, it is a hot topic. In my daily activities, defending my real first name against anglocized name is a real challenge in a hostile environment. I already gave up on my real fist name at the restaurant or bar. :-) -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Hi, From: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:16:23 -0800 If Oohara Yuuma said In Japan a family name comes before a personal name in _Japanese_ _language_ context. I want to retain the same order in English context too., it was not stretching the fact. I am all for respecting his defiance wish to the Japanese translation convention. Is Given Family order related to English (or Western) language? I don't know. However, I can say that the order is related to English (or Western) people. I.e., Western people have names with Given Family order. If they visit some other country, they don't change their name. Vice versa. Please remember that it is a well established convention for Japanese name to be flipped in English or French context upon translation. That was my point. I guess if translated into Hungarian or Chinese, we should use surname first as the translation convention. I know that convention. However, the convention is related to Japanese people's custom, not western languages. It is proved by your example of Hungarian or Chinese. Thus, it is Japanese people (not English speakers) who have right to determine how to write Japanese people's name in English. Boy, it is a hot topic. In my daily activities, defending my real first name against anglocized name is a real challenge in a hostile environment. I already gave up on my real fist name at the restaurant or bar. :-) It is because the restaurant and the bar are localted at a specific country. It is natural that the restaurant follows the convention in the country. I cannot imagine a restaurant which is located at all countries or international restaurant. However, our project is international. --- Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:04:54AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 01:56:30PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote:
You know, some Japanese people write names in their native order,
Family Given, and such expressions exist in db.debian.org database.
... but I checked the script
(klecker:/org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl) and
I couldn't find additional handlers.
On that note, there should indeed be one such handler -- to make cn, sn ldap
fields preferred somehow, and one other handler -- to understand LASTNAME
Firstname and Firstname LASTNAME properly. Anyone care to write a patch? :)
The following patch implements the latter handler.
Matt
--- people.pl.orig Thu Jan 30 08:06:12 2003
+++ people.pl Thu Jan 30 07:59:51 2003
@@ -172,9 +172,6 @@
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Javier Fernandez-Sanguino
Pen~a\s+(.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Fernandez-Sanguino Pentilde;a';
$firstname = 'Javier'; $email = $1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /KELEMEN Peter (.+)/io) {
- $lastname = 'Kelemen'; $firstname = 'Peter'; $email =
$1;
- }
elsif ($maintainer =~ /J\.H\.M\.? Dassen \(Ray\) (.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Dassen'; $firstname = 'Ray J.H.M.'; $email
= $1;
}
@@ -232,66 +229,18 @@
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Chris(topher)? L\.? Cheney (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'Cheney'; $firstname = 'Christopher L.';
$email = $2;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /OHASHI Akira (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Ohashi'; $firstname = 'Akira'; $email = $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /GOTO Masanori (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Goto'; $firstname = 'Masanori'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /SZALAY Attila (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Szalay'; $firstname = 'Attila'; $email =
$1;
- }
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Sylvain LE GALL (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'Le Gall'; $firstname = 'Sylvain'; $email =
$1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /RISKO Gergely (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Risko'; $firstname = 'Gergely'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /PASZTOR Gyorgy (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Pasztor'; $firstname = 'Gyorgy'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Atsushi KAMOSHIDA (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Kamoshida'; $firstname = 'Atsushi'; $email
= $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Takao KAWAMURA (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Kawamura'; $firstname = 'Takao'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Takuo KITAME (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Kitame'; $firstname = 'Takuo'; $email = $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Atsuhito KOHDA (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Kohda'; $firstname = 'Atsuhito'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /SEKIDO Koichi (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Sekido'; $firstname = 'Koichi'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Tomohiro KUBOTA (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Kubota'; $firstname = 'Tomohiro'; $email =
$1;
- }
elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Lee (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'Lee'; $firstname = 'Ho-seok'; $email = $1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Julien LEMOINE (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Lemoine'; $firstname = 'Julien'; $email =
$1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /OHURA Makoto (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Ohura'; $firstname = 'Makoto'; $email = $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Menucc1? (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Menucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Mennucc1? (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Mennucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
}
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Abraham vd Merwe (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'van der Merwe'; $firstname = 'Abraham';
$email = $1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /ISHIKAWA Mutsumi (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Ishikawa'; $firstname = 'Mutsumi'; $email
= $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Shuichi OONO (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Oono'; $firstname = 'Shuichi'; $email = $1;
- }
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Susumu OSAWA (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Osawa'; $firstname = 'Susumu'; $email = $1;
- }
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:06:59PM -0800, Matt Kraai wrote:
--- people.pl.origThu Jan 30 08:06:12 2003
+++ people.pl Thu Jan 30 07:59:51 2003
@@ -172,9 +172,6 @@
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Javier Fernandez-Sanguino
Pen~a\s+(.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Fernandez-Sanguino Pentilde;a';
$firstname = 'Javier'; $email = $1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /KELEMEN Peter (.+)/io) {
- $lastname = 'Kelemen'; $firstname = 'Peter'; $email =
$1;
- }
elsif ($maintainer =~ /J\.H\.M\.? Dassen \(Ray\) (.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Dassen'; $firstname = 'Ray J.H.M.'; $email
= $1;
}
@@ -232,66 +229,18 @@
Matt, this should fine but is this really what you want to do. If we
use a rule all caps word makes surname, may be this patch is shorter.
Just wondering I thought programming is all about generalization
of phenomena into a simpler rules
--
~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ +
Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32
.''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers
: :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu
`. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
* Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-01-29 13:56]: It is because the web page is automatically generated by a script from developers database on db.debian.org . The script assumes the first part of name is given name and the last part is family name. Since there are many names which don't follow the assumption, the script has many exception handlers. Josip added two exception handlers and the page will be fixed in the next build. Uhm, just out of curisity, there are sn and cn which contains the surename and the firstname (why in the cn field?). Wouldn't it be best to use that data directly instead of the gecos field? You know, some Japanese people write names in their native order, Family Given, and such expressions exist in db.debian.org database. Those expressions should exist in the gecos filed only, but there is still cn and sn which should be filled with the correct data. ... but I checked the script (klecker:/org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl) and I couldn't find additional handlers. Oh, when looking at the script it _does_ use the cn and sn data Then it seems that the database is filled wrongly. We shouldn't define exceptions in the script but get the db admin to fix the data in there instead Just my 0.02 EUR, Alfie -- there's only one race and that's the human race and every human being's got the right to feel safe -- Clawfinger, What Are You Afraid Of? pgpBJ0pRxJ8EY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:06:59PM -0800, Matt Kraai wrote:
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Sylvain LE GALL (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'Le Gall'; $firstname = 'Sylvain'; $email =
$1;
}
I was wondering if you'd get the above to work, too :o)
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Menucc1? (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Menucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Mennucc1? (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Mennucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /W\. Borgert (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Borgert'; $firstname = 'W.'; $email = $1;
Random bug fixes?
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Taku YASUI (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Yasui'; $firstname = 'Taku'; $email = $1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /Hatta Shuzo (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Hatta'; $firstname = 'Shuzo'; $email = $1;
You were working off an outdated commit?
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 07:20:32PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: would ask to change name order, I would certainly stimulate the core part of flamewar and Japanese members of Debian might drop their activity as developers.) Well, this is simply an example of how you can't please all of the people all of the time. You brought these examples up because you didn't like how those developer's names appeared. You don't want them to conform to the way the majority of developers do things (fair enough), you don't want them to conform to the (admitedly ugly) uppercase convention (fair enough), but you still want the parser to somehow figure out the names (not fair) and complain about some sort of cultural imperialism while you're at it (unjustified, and not the first time you've done it.) Mike Stone
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Hi, From: Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:32:49 -0500 Well, this is simply an example of how you can't please all of the people all of the time. You brought these examples up because you didn't like how those developer's names appeared. You don't want them to conform to the way the majority of developers do things (fair enough), you don't want them to conform to the (admitedly ugly) uppercase convention (fair enough), but you still want the parser to somehow figure out the names (not fair) and complain about some sort of cultural imperialism while you're at it (unjustified, and not the first time you've done it.) The parser already has many exception handlers. I just wanted it to have two additional handlers. Since I recently read the parser to solve other problem, I knew it was easy to add two handlers. I don't think we can build a perfect parser. If you think you can, it is based on the cultural imperialism. However, it is a good idea to design a parser which can reduce the number of exceptions because it reduces the load of maintainance, which is why the Matt's improvement is worthwhile. Anyway, I'd like to praise Josip who maintains such a script with a cluster of exception handers. --- Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 02:08:38AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote:
--- people.pl.orig Thu Jan 30 08:06:12 2003
+++ people.pl Thu Jan 30 07:59:51 2003
@@ -172,9 +172,6 @@
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Javier Fernandez-Sanguino
Pen~a\s+(.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Fernandez-Sanguino Pentilde;a';
$firstname = 'Javier'; $email = $1;
}
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /KELEMEN Peter (.+)/io) {
- $lastname = 'Kelemen'; $firstname = 'Peter'; $email =
$1;
- }
elsif ($maintainer =~ /J\.H\.M\.? Dassen \(Ray\) (.+)/o) {
$lastname = 'Dassen'; $firstname = 'Ray J.H.M.'; $email
= $1;
}
@@ -232,66 +229,18 @@
Matt, this should fine but is this really what you want to do. If we
use a rule all caps word makes surname, may be this patch is shorter.
Just wondering I thought programming is all about generalization
of phenomena into a simpler rules
Err... the last chunk of his patch implemented the all-caps-means-surname,
so he also added chunks to remove manual overrides for that.
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 10:40:26AM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: Oh, when looking at the script it _does_ use the cn and sn data Well, not exactly, the devel/people script uses the data but it doesn't take it as authoritative. Then it seems that the database is filled wrongly. We shouldn't define exceptions in the script but get the db admin to fix the data in there instead % ldapsearch -P2 -x -h db.debian.org -b 'uid=hattas,ou=users,dc=debian,dc=org' cn mn sn ... cn: Shuzo sn: Hatta ... % ldapsearch -P2 -x -h db.debian.org -b 'uid=oohara,ou=users,dc=debian,dc=org' cn mn sn ... cn: Oohara sn: Yuuma ... There does seem to be an error in Yuuma Oohara's entry, though -- cn and sn are reversed. This email is Cc:ed to the developer and debian-admin so that the error can be verified and then fixed. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 07:46:13AM -0800, Matt Kraai wrote:
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Taku YASUI (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Yasui'; $firstname = 'Taku'; $email = $1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /Hatta Shuzo (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Hatta'; $firstname = 'Shuzo'; $email = $1;
You were working off an outdated commit?
It's based on /org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl.
If I don't do this, HATTA Shuzo's has two entries, one for escm
(which has HATTA Shuzo in the Maintainer field), and one for
gauche and jfbterm (which have Hatta Shuzo in the Maintainer
field).
Hmm. I committed:
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /(?:Hatta|HATTA) Shuzo (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Hatta'; $firstname = 'Shuzo'; $email = $1;
+ }
the other day.
In any case, I'll start applying all this now.
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 12:02:26PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:06:59PM -0800, Matt Kraai wrote:
elsif ($maintainer =~ /Sylvain LE GALL (.+)/) {
$lastname = 'Le Gall'; $firstname = 'Sylvain'; $email =
$1;
}
I was wondering if you'd get the above to work, too :o)
Given my limited knowledge of perl, the cure would be worse than
the disease.
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Menucc1? (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Menucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /A Mennucc1? (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Mennucci'; $firstname = 'Andrea'; $email =
$1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /W\. Borgert (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Borgert'; $firstname = 'W.'; $email = $1;
Random bug fixes?
The first is, the second keeps it from mistaking W. for
$lastname. It should set $firstname to Wolfgang instead, but I
was too lazy to look that up last night.
- elsif ($maintainer =~ /Taku YASUI (.+)/) {
- $lastname = 'Yasui'; $firstname = 'Taku'; $email = $1;
+ elsif ($maintainer =~ /Hatta Shuzo (.+)/) {
+ $lastname = 'Hatta'; $firstname = 'Shuzo'; $email = $1;
You were working off an outdated commit?
It's based on /org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl.
If I don't do this, HATTA Shuzo's has two entries, one for escm
(which has HATTA Shuzo in the Maintainer field), and one for
gauche and jfbterm (which have Hatta Shuzo in the Maintainer
field).
Matt
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
[please Cc: to me because I am not subscribed to either list] On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:01:12 +0100, Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % ldapsearch -P2 -x -h db.debian.org -b 'uid=oohara,ou=users,dc=debian,dc=org' cn mn sn ... cn: Oohara sn: Yuuma ... There does seem to be an error in Yuuma Oohara's entry, though -- cn and sn are reversed. This email is Cc:ed to the developer and debian-admin so that the error can be verified and then fixed. I don't know what cn and sn are. cn = Christian name, sn = surname? My family name is Oohara and my personal name is Yuuma. I am _not_ Yuuma Oohara -- in Japan a family name comes before a personal name. The NM application form insisted on the personal-name-family-name order, so it may be the cause of the bug. I don't see any point in splitting a developer's name into the family name and the personal name, but it is another issue. -- Oohara Yuuma [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian developer PGP key (key ID F464A695) http://www.interq.or.jp/libra/oohara/pub-key.txt Key fingerprint = 6142 8D07 9C5B 159B C170 1F4A 40D6 F42E F464 A695 Do not assume users will be motivated to read manuals --- The GNU Privacy Handbook
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 04:51:42PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: In any case, I'll start applying all this now. It worked fine. Thanks. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 01:15:16AM +0900, Oohara Yuuma wrote: % ldapsearch -P2 -x -h db.debian.org -b 'uid=oohara,ou=users,dc=debian,dc=org' cn mn sn ... cn: Oohara sn: Yuuma ... There does seem to be an error in Yuuma Oohara's entry, though -- cn and sn are reversed. This email is Cc:ed to the developer and debian-admin so that the error can be verified and then fixed. I don't know what cn and sn are. cn = Christian name, sn = surname? cn is the first name, and sn is the surname. My family name is Oohara and my personal name is Yuuma. As I suspected. debian-admin, please swap cn and sn for [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am _not_ Yuuma Oohara -- in Japan a family name comes before a personal name. That was just western spelling, ignore me :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 07:48:35PM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: I imagine names in http://www.debian.org/devel/people have the unified format of Surname, Given name. I found two exceptions: Shuzo, Hatta, where Hatta is surname and Shuzo is given name. Yuuma, Oohara, where Oohara is surname and Yuuma is given name. Thanks! I've added them to the exception list. I am wondering why these strange entry exist. Are they mistake of original data entry? I never see Japanese name spelled that way. Shuzo Hatta(Most common, Passport) Hatta, Shuzo (Many government forms, Some achademic paper) Hatta Shuzo(If you are historical figure or famous leterature writer) Where did these data originally taken? Just curious. From their own packages' Maintainer fields, i.e. they wrote it themselves: % grep-available -F Maintainer Shuzo -s Maintainer | sort -u Maintainer: HATTA Shuzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maintainer: Hatta Shuzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] % grep-available -F Maintainer Yuuma -s Maintainer | sort -u Maintainer: Oohara Yuuma [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps one of you could politely inform these two developers that they might get the westerners to read their name right if they changed the ordering? :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 01:56:30PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: You know, some Japanese people write names in their native order, Family Given, and such expressions exist in db.debian.org database. ... but I checked the script (klecker:/org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl) and I couldn't find additional handlers. On that note, there should indeed be one such handler -- to make cn, sn ldap fields preferred somehow, and one other handler -- to understand LASTNAME Firstname and Firstname LASTNAME properly. Anyone care to write a patch? :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Hi, From: Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:33:58 +0100 % grep-available -F Maintainer Shuzo -s Maintainer | sort -u Maintainer: HATTA Shuzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maintainer: Hatta Shuzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] % grep-available -F Maintainer Yuuma -s Maintainer | sort -u Maintainer: Oohara Yuuma [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps one of you could politely inform these two developers that they might get the westerners to read their name right if they changed the ordering? :) Well, I don't want to do this. I want nobody to do this. It is not a very good idea that non-westerners have to follow the customs of westerners but westerners don't need to follow that of non-westerners. Non-westerners already suffer from paying cost to learn many customs of westerners when we want to do something in international societies, and I want to reduce the load if possible. I think I can ask them to write family name in uppercase, it is the maximum which I can ask them. I don't know they will accept even this idea. Please note that this *is* what I recently mentioned as a 10-year flamewar and I *never* want to join it, and even asking writing familyname in uppercase might arouse the flamewar. (If I would ask to change name order, I would certainly stimulate the core part of flamewar and Japanese members of Debian might drop their activity as developers.) --- Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:26:34AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: I imagine names in http://www.debian.org/devel/people have the unified format of Surname, Given name. I found two exceptions: Shuzo, Hatta, where Hatta is surname and Shuzo is given name. Yuuma, Oohara, where Oohara is surname and Yuuma is given name. Thanks! I've added them to the exception list. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:25:18AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 09:26:34AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: I imagine names in http://www.debian.org/devel/people have the unified format of Surname, Given name. I found two exceptions: Shuzo, Hatta, where Hatta is surname and Shuzo is given name. Yuuma, Oohara, where Oohara is surname and Yuuma is given name. Thanks! I've added them to the exception list. I am wondering why these strange entry exist. Are they mistake of original data entry? I never see Japanese name spelled that way. Shuzo Hatta(Most common, Passport) Hatta, Shuzo (Many government forms, Some achademic paper) Hatta Shuzo(If you are historical figure or famous leterature writer) Where did these data originally taken? Just curious. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract
Re: family name, personal name in devel/people
Hi, From: Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: family name, personal name in devel/people Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:48:35 -0800 Shuzo, Hatta, where Hatta is surname and Shuzo is given name. Yuuma, Oohara, where Oohara is surname and Yuuma is given name. I am wondering why these strange entry exist. Are they mistake of original data entry? I never see Japanese name spelled that way. It is because the web page is automatically generated by a script from developers database on db.debian.org . The script assumes the first part of name is given name and the last part is family name. Since there are many names which don't follow the assumption, the script has many exception handlers. Josip added two exception handlers and the page will be fixed in the next build. You know, some Japanese people write names in their native order, Family Given, and such expressions exist in db.debian.org database. ... but I checked the script (klecker:/org/www.debian.org/cron/people_scripts/people.pl) and I couldn't find additional handlers. --- Tomohiro KUBOTA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.or.jp/~kubota/
