Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 01.12.2005 um 03:36 schrieb Mohammed Adnène Trojette:


Has there been any progress on the integration of your design as an
official CSS for the website?


Hi Mohammend!

Major changes need some more people to say "yes, that is what we want!".

I am currently collecting suggestions and include example pages in my  
tree. Currently I am doing only indexy.html where y is a number from  
1 to ...


Later I will apply the suggested changes to some more pages as the  
css may conflict with other pages and we need much more css than for  
the index page.


Anybody who wants to make something linke a color scheme (we need  
colors for tables, links and other things, too) is welcome. People  
helping do not need to know about css or WML necessarily. If we get a  
nice color table, we will create a css out of it as an example.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote:

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005, Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote:


Imho, both are great work :)



Hello, Raúl!

Has there been any progress on the integration of your design as an
official CSS for the website?

I know that Jutta is taking care of the current CSS (many thanks to
her!), so I just wanted to know if there were still blockers to
commit Raúl's work.

Friendly,


Hello

I'm currently working with Jutta in a new CSS.
I have just finished a new CSS proposal, I'm now to sending it to Jutta.

Raul.


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Mohammed Adnène Trojette]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005, Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote:
> Imho, both are great work :)

Hello, Raúl!

Has there been any progress on the integration of your design as an
official CSS for the website?

I know that Jutta is taking care of the current CSS (many thanks to
her!), so I just wanted to know if there were still blockers to
commit Raúl's work.

Friendly,
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.10.2005 um 23:50 schrieb Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña:

Why not add that as a new page under http://www.debian.org/devel/ 
website/?
I don't think a wiki is needed for that as most people working on  
that stuff

in this list will have CVS access anyway.


For the outline, maybe. I do not know, if it is recomended or not  
that people having no write access can change there things, too.


greetings

Jutta

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 11:32:51PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> 
> I am quite sure that it would be possible to create an outline in the  
> wiki where everyone can easily make changes. It is only, that there  
> must be people volunteering to do that.

Agreed.
> 
> Here some todos:

Why not add that as a new page under http://www.debian.org/devel/website/?
I don't think a wiki is needed for that as most people working on that stuff
in this list will have CVS access anyway.

Regards

Javier


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 22.10.2005 um 21:53 schrieb Richard Atterer:

For example, they are not able to browse through all pages of a  
section

(say, "Getting Debian") because they cannot tell whether there is yet
another page hidden behind one of those many links, with just the
information they need.


Therefore we need an outline of the logical structure of the pages,  
which is not always the same as the position in the file system.


If an outline is present, it is possible to create section menus and  
breadcrumbs


Another thing so solve is, that some page content relys on full width  
of page, so that there is no space left for a menu at one side. It  
will not take a long time until I have validating everything as HTML  
strict. But there are still many things left, that should go to  
debian.css.


I am quite sure that it would be possible to create an outline in the  
wiki where everyone can easily make changes. It is only, that there  
must be people volunteering to do that.


Here some todos:

- - Strict HTML (we are working on that)
- - Outline
- - Making more unique layout (tables, lists, ..)
- - removing remaing layout tables
- - replacing misused HTML tags by the corrext ones
- - adding missing end tags (non existing obsolete tags have some  
unwanted results in rendering)

- - Adding access keys
- - making pages more text browser friendly
- - moving more tags to wml includes
- - In one of the last steps: reducing and tuning the css (related to  
more unique layout)

...


greetings

Jutta



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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Richard Atterer]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 02:38:31PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > For the front page that is probably true, but personally I find a left 
> > menu distracting also after navigating to another page (the one that I 
> > actually _do_ want to read ;-)
> 
> Which is why I think it's good that the sidebar is only there on the front
> page. I'm assuming the intent is to do the same in this redesign,
> although without an example of a page that isn't the front page it's
> hard to tell.

I beg to differ - the lack of navigation on the pages is probably one of 
the most significant usability problems of the website. Without the menu, 
users soon lose sense of where they are on the site.

For example, they are not able to browse through all pages of a section 
(say, "Getting Debian") because they cannot tell whether there is yet 
another page hidden behind one of those many links, with just the 
information they need. From the POV of someone who is new to the pages, it 
can look like a maze of little twisty links between an unorganized bunch of 
pages.

Cheers,

  Richard

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Guilhelm Panaget]

Le Jeudi 20 Octobre 2005 20:42, Joey Hess a écrit :
> Guilhelm Panaget wrote:
> > My comment will be rather futile... I think the page would look better if
> > the background logo was fixed : it wouldn't move while scrolling up and
> > down.
>
> This has horrible performance issues with any machine that is older than
> 2 years old or so since you can't just scroll a pixmap but have to
> redraw each time.
indeed... I never noticed that, but you're right, scrolling is much more fast 
with the non fixed background... (but I also have a poor 6 years old PC with 
very low video memory...)

Guilhelm


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Joey Hess]

Guilhelm Panaget wrote:
> My comment will be rather futile... I think the page would look better if the 
> background logo was fixed : it wouldn't move while scrolling up and down.

This has horrible performance issues with any machine that is older than
2 years old or so since you can't just scroll a pixmap but have to
redraw each time.

Also, it is visually distracting for anyone who hasn't alredy burnt out
that part of their visual cortex throught too much time using
transparent terminals. :-P

(One of the things I really hate about the new changelogs.debian.net..)

-- 
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Joey Hess]

Frans Pop wrote:
> For the front page that is probably true, but personally I find a left 
> menu distracting also after navigating to another page (the one that I 
> actually _do_ want to read ;-)

Which is why I think it's good that the sidebar is only there on the front
page. I'm assuming the intent is to do the same in this redesign,
although without an example of a page that isn't the front page it's
hard to tell.

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Joey Hess]

MJ Ray wrote:
> On the plus side, I like what you've done with the watermark behind
> the main text and I think the updated top bar is an improvement.
> Maybe I'd prefer it in a shade of debian red, keeping blue for links.

I also think the solid blue is a bit cold and bringing  bit more red in
would be good. 

Otherwise it's pretty nice.

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Guilhelm Panaget]

Hi !

My comment will be rather futile... I think the page would look better if the 
background logo was fixed : it wouldn't move while scrolling up and down.

This can be done replacing :

background: url('images/opendebianlogo.png') #fff no-repeat 80% 170px
by :
background: url('images/opendebianlogo.png') #fff fixed no-repeat 80% 170px

Regards,

Guilhelm


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 20 October 2005 16:49, Richard Atterer wrote:
> Um, yes, but the typical user comes to the page looking for something
> in particular, they don't actually read most of the text on the page,
> but scan it looking for a link to what they want. So your assumption
> that people actually *want* to read the main text is wrong.

For the front page that is probably true, but personally I find a left 
menu distracting also after navigating to another page (the one that I 
actually _do_ want to read ;-)

In the case of Debian's current layout it is not so bad because of the 
full color background for the navigation menu, so the main text is 
clearly separated. But in the proposed versions the distinction between 
menu and main text area is a lot weaker.


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Richard Atterer]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 12:30:28PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> That can also be seen as an advantage as a right nav bar does not 
> distract so much from reading the main text.

Um, yes, but the typical user comes to the page looking for something in 
particular, they don't actually read most of the text on the page, but scan 
it looking for a link to what they want. So your assumption that people 
actually *want* to read the main text is wrong.

FWIW, I have no preference one way or another WRT left-hand vs. right-hand 
navigation.

Cheers,

  Richard

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 20 October 2005 11:48, Richard Atterer wrote:
> - Disadvantage: A user's gaze "enters" the page from the left (for
> left-to-right writing), so when people scan the page for information,
> they don't find the navigation as quickly.

That can also be seen as an advantage as a right nav bar does not distract 
so much from reading the main text.


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Mohammed Adnène Trojette]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
> But this looks rather similar to the old page.  To be honest, I like
> your initial design much better.

Alternate stylesheets are also possible, the only problem being twice as
work for updating the CSS files (and initially validating more than one
CSS).

Imho, both are great work :)

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Richard Atterer]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 11:19:28AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> Having the navigation on the right looks good to me.

This is an old issue for discussion when it comes to web usability:

- Advantage of right-hand navigation: The navigation is near the browser's 
  scroll bar, so no large mouse movements are necessary.  
- Disadvantage: People are used to the de-facto standard with left-hand nav
- Disadvantage: A user's gaze "enters" the page from the left (for 
  left-to-right writing), so when people scan the page for information, 
  they don't find the navigation as quickly.

Cheers,

  Richard

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Thursday 20 October 2005 09:43, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/debian_2a.html

Having the navigation on the right looks good to me. The top navigation 
bar could be dropped, unless it can be used for a different type of 
navigation than the one on the right.

I would like to see the red Debian logo added somewhere, maybe in the top 
right corner?


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Raúl!

You wrote:

> I made another draft, this time more accessible I think:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/debian_2.html

But this looks rather similar to the old page.  To be honest, I like
your initial design much better.

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[MJ Ray]

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ra=FAl_Fuenzalida?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I made another draft, this time more accessible I think:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/debian_2.html

Invalid html due to the extra . Please check with tidy.

The debian logo has no size set and a blank alt tag.

Quite a few warnings at
URL:http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lancer2.tie.cl%2Fdebian_2.html&usermedium=all
the W3C validator, which are mostly colour-related. I don't
like mid-grey on white and grey for the body text, because
it's rather hard on the eyes. See number 1 on
URL:http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html
Jakob Nielsen's latest "Top Ten Web Design Mistakes"

No links seem to be underlined, even in the body text, which is
no.2 on the above list. Please underline links in main text. Use
URL:http://colorfilter.wickline.org/
to see just how difficult your colour-only links might be for
pretty much all colour-blind people (as far as I can tell!).

The page continues the current front page's mistake of having
two navigation spaces, along the top and the left, which are
showing some of the same things. There's an odd-looking wrap
around the bottom of the left menu, and no "skip to main text"
for non-CSS users.

And a nitpick: the title tag says "Operationg" instead of "Operating".

On the plus side, I like what you've done with the watermark behind
the main text and I think the updated top bar is an improvement.
Maybe I'd prefer it in a shade of debian red, keeping blue for links.

Apart from the lack of "skip" link, it works fairly easily for my
non-CSS browsers. I'd like to see XML button links for the RDF by
the security news, but that's page content more than design.

Thanks for working on that,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), Lynn, Norfolk, Eastern England
Personal email - see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Web, koha, gnu/linux & stats at http://www.ttllp.co.uk/


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Draft updated:

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/debian_2a.html


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-10-18 16:02]:
> The CSS contains:
>  body { padding: 0; font: normal 11px verdana; color: #222; text-align: left; 
> }
> which is wrong for a couple of different reasons:

 And one more that aba forgot: If you define the text color you
definitely should define the background-color, too. Defining one but not
the other will just get you strange results for people that like to set
their local values to something different than the default.

 So long,
Alfie
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units of measurement and that promoted MM-DD- as an acceptable date
format, I wouldn't throw stones. ;)
  -- Charl P. Botha to an .us citicen complaining that 22.3. is not unambiguous


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

I made another draft, this time more accessible I think:

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/debian_2.html


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Re: Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:56:46AM -0300, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> So sorry, it happens that I made it entirely again and I did erase 
> ...index_2.html
> 
> Now, there is only one:
> 
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/

The page shows up (in my computer) with lots of whitespace, regardless of
the font I set (using Mozilla Firefox 1.0.6 at the moment, need to update). I
can provide some screenshots if you want but, believe me, it looks ugly at
1024x768. 

Regards

Javier


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Peter Karlsson]

Frans Pop:

Is it wise to rely on automatic UTF-8 detection? Wouldn't it be better to 
explicitly define the encoding in the header? I would guess there will be 
other browsers affected...


The XML header on the page stated the encoding anyway, so the BOM wasn't 
really very useful.


The best way to place the encoding declaration is of course in the HTTP 
header, but that is not always an option, so putting it in the HTML/XML 
header section (like www.debian.org does) is usually fine. Any browser that 
cannot handle that (or the initial BOM) will have problems browsing actual 
web pages as they exist today.


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 18.10.2005 um 17:32 schrieb Raúl Fuenzalida:


http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_r.html


It still lacks accessibility. See Screenshots with equal font  
settings at http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/screenshots/lancer/ 
screenshots.html.
Screenshots are taken with exactly same browser window size and same  
font settings.
For pages with, which currently have only a page navigation and the  
navbar which has been removed from the layout in the example, there  
will be more problems, even if people have a browser window of 1024px  
width.


And please do not complain, that I have used such a large font. I  
have seen people using larger fonts to be able to read the screen.  
Without my glasses I couldn't read anything with the font settings, I  
used for the screenshots.


Jutta

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Tuesday 18 October 2005 18:11, Peter Karlsson wrote:
> That looks like a bug in Konqueror, in that it doesn't autodetect the
> UTF-8 encoding properly. Not that a BOM is needed for UTF-8 anyway, but
> that's another story...

Ah, I see what you mean. BOM [1] was a new term to me.
If it is not needed, I would propose to delete it anyway.

Is it wise to rely on automatic UTF-8 detection? Wouldn't it be better to 
explicitly define the encoding in the header? I would guess there will be 
other browsers affected...

[1] http://www.unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#BOM


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Kaare Olsen]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:32:04 -0300
Raúl Fuenzalida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> so, I made the changes:
> 
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_r.html

I like your proposed design, too.

Can you do something about the empty space between the delimiter line
and the heading "What is Debian?" on the main page, and between the logo
and the heading "About" in the menu?

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Kaare Olsen]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:09:36 +0100
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html
> 
> There is a link on the homepage to itself, which can be confusing,

I don't think Raúl has changed any content.  Our current homepage also
has both "Debian" in the first paragraph and the logo pointing to the
homepage.

However, I agree it should be changed, but that's not Raúl's concern.

-- 
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Peter Karlsson]

Frans Pop:


Seems to be in the source. If I view the source (using Konqueror), the
first lines are:


That looks like a bug in Konqueror, in that it doesn't autodetect the UTF-8 
encoding properly. Not that a BOM is needed for UTF-8 anyway, but that's 
another story...


Please file a bug report for Konqueror.

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Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Frans Pop wrote:

Seems to be in the source. If I view the source (using Konqueror), the 
first lines are:





PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"

"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>

 



It's really strange... those caracters doesn't appear when viewing the 
code using Firefox or Opera. I did erase the  tag



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Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Andreas Barth wrote:


The layout is fine. However, I cannot read it on the system here.

The CSS contains:
body { padding: 0; font: normal 11px verdana; color: #222; text-align: left; }
which is wrong for a couple of different reasons:

* You force all people to use a certain type - what, if the people don't
 have that available? (That's like the people who write Arial there -
 not everyone has the same font.) It's easy possible to write
 "verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, *" - or whatever else suites you.
 
* The second is worse: You set the font size to 11px. This can be *way*

 *wrong*. Please don't do that. If someone set a high font size, the
 person probably has reasons for this. Please respect that.

 For the "normal size", really the users decisisions should be taken.
 If you need something for e.g. h1-tags or so, 110% exists.
 


yeah, I believe it is true, I understand it



Please see e.g.
http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/2001-August/004138.html for
some "why it is wrong".

Please see also http://en.selfhtml.org/css/eigenschaften/schrift.htm for
more details.

So, I propose to use
body { padding: 0; font: verdana,helvetica,arial, sans-serif, *; color: #222; 
text-align: left; }
 



so, I made the changes:

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_r.html


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Tuesday 18 October 2005 16:43, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> a... don't know. The encoding?

Seems to be in the source. If I view the source (using Konqueror), the 
first lines are:




http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>



pgpkkrIt4SP1K.pgp
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Frans Pop wrote:


On Tuesday 18 October 2005 14:56, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
 


http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/
   



Very nice and clean.

One thing: there are some stray characters in the top left corner. See 
attachment. Any idea?


 







a... don't know. The encoding?


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Andreas Barth]

* Raúl Fuenzalida ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [051018 14:56]:
> Now, there is only one:
> 
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/
> 
> It's simplest than before

The layout is fine. However, I cannot read it on the system here.

The CSS contains:
 body { padding: 0; font: normal 11px verdana; color: #222; text-align: left; }
which is wrong for a couple of different reasons:

* You force all people to use a certain type - what, if the people don't
  have that available? (That's like the people who write Arial there -
  not everyone has the same font.) It's easy possible to write
  "verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, *" - or whatever else suites you.
  
* The second is worse: You set the font size to 11px. This can be *way*
  *wrong*. Please don't do that. If someone set a high font size, the
  person probably has reasons for this. Please respect that.

  For the "normal size", really the users decisisions should be taken.
  If you need something for e.g. h1-tags or so, 110% exists.

Please see e.g.
http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/2001-August/004138.html for
some "why it is wrong".

Please see also http://en.selfhtml.org/css/eigenschaften/schrift.htm for
more details.

So, I propose to use
 body { padding: 0; font: verdana,helvetica,arial, sans-serif, *; color: #222; 
text-align: left; }
 
 

Cheers,
Andi


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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Frans Pop]

On Tuesday 18 October 2005 14:56, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/

Very nice and clean.

One thing: there are some stray characters in the top left corner. See 
attachment. Any idea?



lancer2.png
Description: PNG image


pgpuNcJTcAS8q.pgp
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[MJ Ray]

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ra=FAl_Fuenzalida?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Well.. I made some drafts, three pages, very simple. I would like you to 
> see them:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html

There is a link on the homepage to itself, which can be confusing,
and the text is too small.

> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/gettingdebian.html
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/aboutdebian.html

These two are not found.

> If you are using Firefox or Opera... the page has an alternate stylesheet.

How does one access it in Firefox? The View>Style menu shows normal
two options.

> The pages are in my country, Chile. I don't know how fast they load from 
> other countries... a thing I would like to know, please.

Pretty fast.

Thanks,
-- 
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Re: Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

So sorry, it happens that I made it entirely again and I did erase 
...index_2.html


Now, there is only one:

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/

It's simplest than before


...it seems that i'm gonna have to learn CVS and WML...


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Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 08:30:38PM -0300, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> something like this?
> 
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_2.html

That gives a 404 here...?

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Peter Karlsson]

Raúl Fuenzalida:

> Well.. I made some drafts, three pages, very simple. I would like you to see
> them:

> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html

Wow. Very nice indeed! Just one minor problem: It is using a fixed
window width, which means that I either get a horizontal scroll bar, or
wasted space around the page. The left-hand column should probably be
fixed-width, but the text column should allow to resize as needed.

Also, if we go for having the logo like that (which is nice), we should
probably switch to use the official logotype, and not the open one.

-- 
\\// Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/


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Re: Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

I've fixed some of the issues... take a look..:

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html


Jutta Wrage wrote:

For me, I think the current (mainly the old Debian Layout) layout is  
nicer.


something like this?

http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index_2.html


- - Default font size is too small
- - If I increase the font size a bit, it lacks contrast


It is 'in vogue' to use grey fonts... but I made them little more black.



- - The Debian Logo eats much of the space.


I believe it is true.

- - The font cannot be enlarged very much to get more accessibility, 
if  done, the menu overlaps the content or in another browser part of 
the  menu goes outside the browser window (not accessible anly longer).


I believe it is fixed, i've changed the units from 'px' to 'em' and I 
tested it in Firefox, Opera, and Internet Explorer



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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Jutta Wrage]

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Am 17.10.2005 um 19:23 schrieb Bas Zoetekouw:

Wow, that looks quite nice indeed.  This would be a big improvement  
over

our current pages, IMO.


I have made some screenshots where two of those pages can be compared  
to the original pages directly. Please note, that I used exactly the  
same font settings for comparision behind each heading on that page:


http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/screenshots/lancer/screenshots.html

For me, I think the current (mainly the old Debian Layout) layout is  
nicer. But there are some other issues:


- - Default font size is too small
- - If I increase the font size a bit, it lacks contrast
- - The Debian Logo eats much of the space.
- - The font cannot be enlarged very much to get more accessibility, if  
done, the menu overlaps the content or in another browser part of the  
menu goes outside the browser window (not accessible anly longer).


greetings

Jutta

- -- 
http://www.witch.westfalen.de

http://witch.muensterland.org

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Raúl!

You wrote:

> Well.. I made some drafts, three pages, very simple. I would like you to 
> see them:
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/gettingdebian.html
> http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/aboutdebian.html

Wow, that looks quite nice indeed.  This would be a big improvement over
our current pages, IMO.

> The pages are in my country, Chile. I don't know how fast they load from 
> other countries... a thing I would like to know, please.

Loads quite fast here (Netherlands).

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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Raúl Fuenzalida]

Well.. I made some drafts, three pages, very simple. I would like you to 
see them:


http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/index.html
http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/gettingdebian.html
http://www.lancer2.tie.cl/aboutdebian.html

If you are using Firefox or Opera... the page has an alternate stylesheet.

The pages are in my country, Chile. I don't know how fast they load from 
other countries... a thing I would like to know, please.



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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[MJ Ray]

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ra=FAl_Fuenzalida?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...]
> Is there any plans of renewing the web site?

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/2005/06/msg00144.html and
recent http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/ archives too.

> I have some ideas, ideas related with the appearance, with the design.

Thanks for giving no details at all of them!

Cc'd because I doubt the OP is subscribed yet.

-- 
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Re: www.debian.org Web Design

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 03:31:21AM -0300, Raúl Fuenzalida wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> I would like to say that I think that debian.org has a lack of design, 
> it looks very poor, almost ugly.
> I believe that this can be fixed, XHTML offer a lot of features which 
> can help.
> 
> Is there any plans of renewing the web site?

As with anything in Debian: there are no plans per se, but if someone
wants to do the work, and it is generally agreed upon that the work done
does look good, then it's quite likely that it'll be accepted.

> I have some ideas, ideas related with the appearance, with the design.

You're welcome to demonstrate what you think would look good. One way to
do this would be to check out a copy of Debian's website to your local
hard disk, edit the code any way you see fit, post it on a website that
you control, and ask for comments on this list.

Information on how to do this and how the website is set up can be found
at http://www.debian.org/devel/website/

Currently Jutta Wrage is working on converting the site so that it
complies with HTML strict, which could probably be seen as 'renewing'.
Jutta also did most (all?) of the work to introduce CSS in the website
instead of table-based designs. If what you're planning to do has
something to do with that, you may want to coordinate with Jutta.

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