Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"

[Christoph Noack]

Hi Christopher, hi Nick!

Nick, thanks for your feedback - and I don't know whether this helps or
not, but it is a known issue for some years now. Unfortunately, changing
that (in a way that it makes real sense) requires to use something
called "Layout Manager", so that we can switch button orders depending
on the platform.

At least, I've documented that some time ago in the Design Team's "What
We Need" list:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#LibreOffice_Technical_Basis

The last time I talked about that with some developers was at the Fosdem
in February - the work seems a bit stalled at the moment (or let's say:
nobody actively picked that topic).

So if anybody wants to work on / advertise that topic - highly
appreciated.

Am Freitag, den 15.07.2011, 21:06 -0400 schrieb Christopher Lee:
> We shouldn't forget that LibreOffice is a cross-platform program and
> that we may also want to consider that people will expect similar
> behavior from the program no matter where they're running it. On the
> other hand, the order of the buttons really doesn't seem like it would
> be hard to implement. Maybe obey system defaults and have an option to
> rearrange?

Christopher, I noticed several times that you wrote something like
"doesn't seem ... hard to implement" where it is - in fact - hard work.
So although I don't know if you are a developer working on LibreOffice
(by the way, I'm not a programmer), we should ask on the dev list for
such effort estimations.

I this recent case, it's almost no problem to change the button order
for one dialog - but the issue is that we do have hundreds of them
hard-coded.

Cheers,
Christoph



> -- 
> Christopher Lee
> Executive Director
> Champion Debate
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, nick rundy wrote:
> 
> > 
> > LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in its 
> > Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux 
> > installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout 
> > that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For example, 
> > MS Windows displays "OK Cancel." Linux displays "Cancel OK."
> > I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing 
> > (http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with 
> > how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux 
> > applications display them?
> > 
> > MS Windows: Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save
> > MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux: Reset Help Cancel OK 
> > -- 
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org 
> > (mailto:design+h...@global.libreoffice.org)
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
> > deleted
> 
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"

[Christopher Lee]

I agree with what you're saying, but I think people tend to be at least
somewhat more cautious in an office program and after one or two mishaps
with the okay button (save all before closing, anyone?) people learn.  We
shouldn't really be trying to protect the user from themselves, and most
seem to get along fine the way it is (verbs anyway, not that I disagree with
this).

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:

> say what you want about what order of the buttons but the more important
> thing is weather the user understands what the buttons mean.  Lukas Mathis
> writes an exigent blog(ignorethecode.net) about UI and UX (even though he
> does not call it UX) and what to and not to do when making your UI's.  He
> wrote a blog post
> http://ignorethecode.net/blognobody-reads/<
> http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2008/10/31/nobody-reads/>
> about
> how people do not read dialog boxes.  He says that most people just click
> ok
> because it what they always click and nothing bad happens.  he says to use
> verbs instead of using ok and cancel use save and discard.  Now I can see
> that we do this as nick has given the examples of what the order each OS.
>  I
> just thought that this was a grate blog and that I would tell people about
> it.  there are many other useful tips on there that would help with making
> LibreOffice.
>
> ignore the code
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Christopher Lee
> wrote:
>
> > We shouldn't forget that LibreOffice is a cross-platform program and that
> > we may also want to consider that people will expect similar behavior
> from
> > the program no matter where they're running it. On the other hand, the
> order
> > of the buttons really doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement.
> Maybe
> > obey system defaults and have an option to rearrange?
> >
> > --
> > Christopher Lee
> > Executive Director
> > Champion Debate
> >
> >
> > On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, nick rundy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in
> > its Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux
> > installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button
> layout
> > that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For
> example,
> > MS Windows displays "OK Cancel." Linux displays "Cancel OK."
> > > I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing (
> > http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform
> with
> > how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux
> > applications display them?
> > >
> > > MS Windows: Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save
> > > MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux: Reset Help Cancel OK
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org
> (mailto:
> > design+h...@global.libreoffice.org)
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>


-- 
Christopher Lee
Executive Director
Champion Debate Camp
Co-Captain
Thomas Jefferson Policy Debate Team

--The Gunboat Debater--

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [proposal] Dark application background

[Andrew Pullins]

I pretty much got the what it said  but if it will help other people who
read this. but it is not that hard to use translate.

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Christopher Lee
wrote:

> If needed, I can translate the text and reupload the image.  My German's
> not
> fantastic but there's nothing out of my range on this screenie.
>
> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Andrew Pullins  >wrote:
>
> > >
> > > maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
> >
> >
> > wow this is grate, I don't know what it all says but thank you Google
> > translate. so would you click the drop down bar that says Application
> > Backg... and choose things like page color,  margin outline color ect.
> And
> > the general would be things like, Tool Bars, Headers, Footers, and other
> > things.  its better than what I was imagined when it was suggested.
> >
> > I think that the second option is good. It makes it so that you can
> select
> > exactly what you would want.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Christopher Lee
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ich finde dass ziemlich super!  Und deine Emglisch ist auch ganz gut.
> ;)
> > >
> > > Okay, now that we've established that my Grammatik is not up to snuff,
> > your
> > > mockup looks really good.  I'm not entirely sold on the second row
> > (General
> > > >> Application Background), but it's clear and useful.
> > >
> > > I am surprised that you didn't find it-- even in German, I found the
> > option
> > > relatively quickly. Then again, I had prior knowledge and some German
> to
> > > help.  But the options dialogue as a whole could really use some love.
> > >
> > > Christopher Lee
> > > Executive Director
> > > Champion Debate
> > >
> > > On Jul 15, 2011, at 2:59 AM, Alex B  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since i'm using OOo/libO for almost 2 years now, and never found the
> > > option to change the application background color, this can mean two
> > things:
> > > >
> > > > I. Something is wrong with me.
> > > > II. Something is wrong with the options dialog.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > (in my defence, it's way harder to find in german, than in english)
> > > >
> > > > I took a deeper look at the options dialog and i must say, it's quite
> > > confusing sometimes, but thats an other topic.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think, the whole apperance options would be easier to use if:
> > > >
> > > > - The apperance dialog is more prominent.
> > > > - A view color schemes are included in the default installation.
> > > > - There is a small live-preview.
> > > >
> > > > maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> And while I agree that it's not an art program, it's also fair to
> make
> > > this comparison considering how many colors are offered in the
> > LibreOffice
> > > options dialogue. We can deal with dropdown menus for changing font
> > colors
> > > since most people use a >limited selection anyway (of course, with a
> > Shore
> > > More . . . along the way), but there must be over a hundred offered in
> > those
> > > dropdown lists.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Christopher Lee
> > > >> Executive Director
> > > >> Champion Debate
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> this is not a Art program. but I see what you mean, palates are
> grate.
> > I
> > > >> am working on a new UI right now, and will be uploading my ideas in
> a
> > > few
> > > >> days... or maybe tomorrow. hope to get some feed back from everyone.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Christopher Lee
> > > >> mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
> > > >>
> > >  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I
> read
> > > this.
> > >  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to
> > understand.
> > >  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the
> hole
> > > >>> thing.
> > > >>> Definitely. I don't see dropdown lists as being an ideal means of
> > > picking a
> > > >>> color for a multitude of reasons. 1) There are a lot of colors, and
> > > >>> scrolling through a long list is tedious. 2) You can only see a
> small
> > > >>> selection at any given time, making it harder to compare two
> colors.
> > 3)
> > > It's
> > > >>> difficult to guess where the colors are, as they're in no real
> > logical
> > > order
> > > >>> for the end user. 4) Lack of customization. 5) It's just not the
> > right
> > > >>> interface. Art programs use palates for a reason.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Christopher Lee
> > > >>> Executive Director
> > > >>> Champion Debate
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I
> read
> > > this.
> > >  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to
> > understand.
> > >  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the
> hole
> > > >>> thin

Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"

[Andrew Pullins]

say what you want about what order of the buttons but the more important
thing is weather the user understands what the buttons mean.  Lukas Mathis
writes an exigent blog(ignorethecode.net) about UI and UX (even though he
does not call it UX) and what to and not to do when making your UI's.  He
wrote a blog post
http://ignorethecode.net/blognobody-reads/
about
how people do not read dialog boxes.  He says that most people just click ok
because it what they always click and nothing bad happens.  he says to use
verbs instead of using ok and cancel use save and discard.  Now I can see
that we do this as nick has given the examples of what the order each OS.  I
just thought that this was a grate blog and that I would tell people about
it.  there are many other useful tips on there that would help with making
LibreOffice.

ignore the code



On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Christopher Lee
wrote:

> We shouldn't forget that LibreOffice is a cross-platform program and that
> we may also want to consider that people will expect similar behavior from
> the program no matter where they're running it. On the other hand, the order
> of the buttons really doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement. Maybe
> obey system defaults and have an option to rearrange?
>
> --
> Christopher Lee
> Executive Director
> Champion Debate
>
>
> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, nick rundy wrote:
>
> >
> > LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in
> its Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux
> installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout
> that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For example,
> MS Windows displays "OK Cancel." Linux displays "Cancel OK."
> > I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing (
> http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with
> how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux
> applications display them?
> >
> > MS Windows: Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save
> > MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux: Reset Help Cancel OK
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to 
> > design+h...@global.libreoffice.org(mailto:
> design+h...@global.libreoffice.org)
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [proposal] Dark application background

[Christopher Lee]

If needed, I can translate the text and reupload the image.  My German's not
fantastic but there's nothing out of my range on this screenie.

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:

> >
> > maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
>
>
> wow this is grate, I don't know what it all says but thank you Google
> translate. so would you click the drop down bar that says Application
> Backg... and choose things like page color,  margin outline color ect. And
> the general would be things like, Tool Bars, Headers, Footers, and other
> things.  its better than what I was imagined when it was suggested.
>
> I think that the second option is good. It makes it so that you can select
> exactly what you would want.
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Christopher Lee
> wrote:
>
> > Ich finde dass ziemlich super!  Und deine Emglisch ist auch ganz gut. ;)
> >
> > Okay, now that we've established that my Grammatik is not up to snuff,
> your
> > mockup looks really good.  I'm not entirely sold on the second row
> (General
> > >> Application Background), but it's clear and useful.
> >
> > I am surprised that you didn't find it-- even in German, I found the
> option
> > relatively quickly. Then again, I had prior knowledge and some German to
> > help.  But the options dialogue as a whole could really use some love.
> >
> > Christopher Lee
> > Executive Director
> > Champion Debate
> >
> > On Jul 15, 2011, at 2:59 AM, Alex B  wrote:
> >
> > > Since i'm using OOo/libO for almost 2 years now, and never found the
> > option to change the application background color, this can mean two
> things:
> > >
> > > I. Something is wrong with me.
> > > II. Something is wrong with the options dialog.
> > >
> > >
> > > (in my defence, it's way harder to find in german, than in english)
> > >
> > > I took a deeper look at the options dialog and i must say, it's quite
> > confusing sometimes, but thats an other topic.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think, the whole apperance options would be easier to use if:
> > >
> > > - The apperance dialog is more prominent.
> > > - A view color schemes are included in the default installation.
> > > - There is a small live-preview.
> > >
> > > maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >> And while I agree that it's not an art program, it's also fair to make
> > this comparison considering how many colors are offered in the
> LibreOffice
> > options dialogue. We can deal with dropdown menus for changing font
> colors
> > since most people use a >limited selection anyway (of course, with a
> Shore
> > More . . . along the way), but there must be over a hundred offered in
> those
> > dropdown lists.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Christopher Lee
> > >> Executive Director
> > >> Champion Debate
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> > >
> > >> this is not a Art program. but I see what you mean, palates are grate.
> I
> > >> am working on a new UI right now, and will be uploading my ideas in a
> > few
> > >> days... or maybe tomorrow. hope to get some feed back from everyone.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Christopher Lee
> > >> mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
> > >>
> >  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read
> > this.
> >  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to
> understand.
> >  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
> > >>> thing.
> > >>> Definitely. I don't see dropdown lists as being an ideal means of
> > picking a
> > >>> color for a multitude of reasons. 1) There are a lot of colors, and
> > >>> scrolling through a long list is tedious. 2) You can only see a small
> > >>> selection at any given time, making it harder to compare two colors.
> 3)
> > It's
> > >>> difficult to guess where the colors are, as they're in no real
> logical
> > order
> > >>> for the end user. 4) Lack of customization. 5) It's just not the
> right
> > >>> interface. Art programs use palates for a reason.
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Christopher Lee
> > >>> Executive Director
> > >>> Champion Debate
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> > >>>
> >  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read
> > this.
> >  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to
> understand.
> >  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
> > >>> thing.
> > 
> >  For all the user cares, a simplified image just showing the page,
> the
> > > general toolbar area, and so on would probably be sufficient
> > 
> > 
> >  I think that this is a good idea we could make different pages for
> > what
> >  colors the user is choosing at that time. so when the user is
> choosing
> > >>> the
> >  page Header and page Footer it shows them what they will look like.
> > 
> >  On Fri, Jul 

Re: [libreoffice-design] [proposal] Dark application background

[Andrew Pullins]

>
> maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png


wow this is grate, I don't know what it all says but thank you Google
translate. so would you click the drop down bar that says Application
Backg... and choose things like page color,  margin outline color ect. And
the general would be things like, Tool Bars, Headers, Footers, and other
things.  its better than what I was imagined when it was suggested.

I think that the second option is good. It makes it so that you can select
exactly what you would want.

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Christopher Lee
wrote:

> Ich finde dass ziemlich super!  Und deine Emglisch ist auch ganz gut. ;)
>
> Okay, now that we've established that my Grammatik is not up to snuff, your
> mockup looks really good.  I'm not entirely sold on the second row (General
> >> Application Background), but it's clear and useful.
>
> I am surprised that you didn't find it-- even in German, I found the option
> relatively quickly. Then again, I had prior knowledge and some German to
> help.  But the options dialogue as a whole could really use some love.
>
> Christopher Lee
> Executive Director
> Champion Debate
>
> On Jul 15, 2011, at 2:59 AM, Alex B  wrote:
>
> > Since i'm using OOo/libO for almost 2 years now, and never found the
> option to change the application background color, this can mean two things:
> >
> > I. Something is wrong with me.
> > II. Something is wrong with the options dialog.
> >
> >
> > (in my defence, it's way harder to find in german, than in english)
> >
> > I took a deeper look at the options dialog and i must say, it's quite
> confusing sometimes, but thats an other topic.
> >
> >
> > I think, the whole apperance options would be easier to use if:
> >
> > - The apperance dialog is more prominent.
> > - A view color schemes are included in the default installation.
> > - There is a small live-preview.
> >
> > maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >> And while I agree that it's not an art program, it's also fair to make
> this comparison considering how many colors are offered in the LibreOffice
> options dialogue. We can deal with dropdown menus for changing font colors
> since most people use a >limited selection anyway (of course, with a Shore
> More . . . along the way), but there must be over a hundred offered in those
> dropdown lists.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Christopher Lee
> >> Executive Director
> >> Champion Debate
> >>
> >>
> >> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> >
> >> this is not a Art program. but I see what you mean, palates are grate. I
> >> am working on a new UI right now, and will be uploading my ideas in a
> few
> >> days... or maybe tomorrow. hope to get some feed back from everyone.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Christopher Lee
> >> mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
> >>
>  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read
> this.
>  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to understand.
>  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
> >>> thing.
> >>> Definitely. I don't see dropdown lists as being an ideal means of
> picking a
> >>> color for a multitude of reasons. 1) There are a lot of colors, and
> >>> scrolling through a long list is tedious. 2) You can only see a small
> >>> selection at any given time, making it harder to compare two colors. 3)
> It's
> >>> difficult to guess where the colors are, as they're in no real logical
> order
> >>> for the end user. 4) Lack of customization. 5) It's just not the right
> >>> interface. Art programs use palates for a reason.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Christopher Lee
> >>> Executive Director
> >>> Champion Debate
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> >>>
>  I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read
> this.
>  but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to understand.
>  probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
> >>> thing.
> 
>  For all the user cares, a simplified image just showing the page, the
> > general toolbar area, and so on would probably be sufficient
> 
> 
>  I think that this is a good idea we could make different pages for
> what
>  colors the user is choosing at that time. so when the user is choosing
> >>> the
>  page Header and page Footer it shows them what they will look like.
> 
>  On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Christopher Lee
>  mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
> 
> > I don't think it would be that hard to do a preview-- you wouldn't
> even
> > need to have it be completely representative. For all the user cares,
> a
> > simplified image just showing the page, the general toolbar area, and
> >>> so on
> > would probably be sufficient-- and it would be no harder to implement
> >>> than
> > an apply button from a pr

Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"

[Christopher Lee]

We shouldn't forget that LibreOffice is a cross-platform program and that we 
may also want to consider that people will expect similar behavior from the 
program no matter where they're running it. On the other hand, the order of the 
buttons really doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement. Maybe obey 
system defaults and have an option to rearrange?

-- 
Christopher Lee
Executive Director
Champion Debate


On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, nick rundy wrote:

> 
> LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in its 
> Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux 
> installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout 
> that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For example, MS 
> Windows displays "OK Cancel." Linux displays "Cancel OK."
> I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing 
> (http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with 
> how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux applications 
> display them?
> 
> MS Windows: Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save
> MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux: Reset Help Cancel OK 
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[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"

[nick rundy]

LibreOffice presently uses a  Microsoft Windows command button layout in its 
Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux installations 
of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout that is standard 
with virtually all other linux applications. For example, MS Windows displays 
"OK   Cancel."  Linux displays "Cancel   OK."
I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing 
(http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with how 
MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux applications 
display them?

MS Windows:Save   Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard   
  Save
MS Windows:   OK  Cancel   Help  ResetGNU-Linux:Reset   
Help   Cancel OK  
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Logo for the Extension and Template Repository Website

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Marc, *,

Am Donnerstag, 14. Juli 2011, 23:34:03 schrieb Marc Paré:

(...)
> 
> Looks great and works really well from a user point of view.
> 

thanks.

> 1. I was just wondering, when someone submits an extension or template,
> they will obviously need to supply an email address or URL. How are
> these managed? I don't see any public display of extension/template
> author's email or website on the site. Would it make any sense to have
> the website URL showing somewhere in the description (if there is one
> attached to the extension/template)? This would allow users a way of
> communicating with the extension/template author, should users have a
> need to speak to them. I do notice that the submitters do need to add
> their email address and URL on the submission form.
> 

The author of a extension / template had to provide a mail address. It is 
currently 
not shown. But there is a comment function available that gives the user a way 
for 
feedback.

> 2. I like the amount of information given to the user as well as the
> "Self-Certification" section.
> 

We had to decide, if we should change the categories for certification. We can 
delete 
the current ones (or some of them) and add new ones.

> 3. Another question is the "Likes and dislikes" section (top right)
> where it says to "log-in". Are your plans are to allow people to
> register to the Externsions site in order to place their "Like" or
> "Dislike". Is there any other advantage to have people register?
> Otherwise, people will wonder why we are collecting names for this.
> 

Yes. But if we find a way that there is no registration necessary we need 
something 
like captcha to get valuable results.

> Nice to have the site to finally start the "official" repository of
> extensions/templates. Great work!

Thanks again and good to have your above feedback here.

Regards,
Andreas

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [proposal] Dark application background

[Christopher Lee]

Ich finde dass ziemlich super!  Und deine Emglisch ist auch ganz gut. ;)

Okay, now that we've established that my Grammatik is not up to snuff, your 
mockup looks really good.  I'm not entirely sold on the second row (General >> 
Application Background), but it's clear and useful. 

I am surprised that you didn't find it-- even in German, I found the option 
relatively quickly. Then again, I had prior knowledge and some German to help.  
But the options dialogue as a whole could really use some love. 

Christopher Lee
Executive Director
Champion Debate

On Jul 15, 2011, at 2:59 AM, Alex B  wrote:

> Since i'm using OOo/libO for almost 2 years now, and never found the option 
> to change the application background color, this can mean two things:
> 
> I. Something is wrong with me.
> II. Something is wrong with the options dialog.
> 
> 
> (in my defence, it's way harder to find in german, than in english)
> 
> I took a deeper look at the options dialog and i must say, it's quite 
> confusing sometimes, but thats an other topic.
> 
> 
> I think, the whole apperance options would be easier to use if:
> 
> - The apperance dialog is more prominent.
> - A view color schemes are included in the default installation.
> - There is a small live-preview.
> 
> maybe like this? http://i.imgur.com/LHvxp.png
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> And while I agree that it's not an art program, it's also fair to make this 
>> comparison considering how many colors are offered in the LibreOffice 
>> options dialogue. We can deal with dropdown menus for changing font colors 
>> since most people use a >limited selection anyway (of course, with a Shore 
>> More . . . along the way), but there must be over a hundred offered in those 
>> dropdown lists.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Christopher Lee
>> Executive Director
>> Champion Debate
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> 
>> this is not a Art program. but I see what you mean, palates are grate. I
>> am working on a new UI right now, and will be uploading my ideas in a few
>> days... or maybe tomorrow. hope to get some feed back from everyone.
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Christopher Lee
>> mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
>> 
 I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read this.
 but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to understand.
 probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
>>> thing.
>>> Definitely. I don't see dropdown lists as being an ideal means of picking a
>>> color for a multitude of reasons. 1) There are a lot of colors, and
>>> scrolling through a long list is tedious. 2) You can only see a small
>>> selection at any given time, making it harder to compare two colors. 3) It's
>>> difficult to guess where the colors are, as they're in no real logical order
>>> for the end user. 4) Lack of customization. 5) It's just not the right
>>> interface. Art programs use palates for a reason.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Christopher Lee
>>> Executive Director
>>> Champion Debate
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
>>> 
 I was looking at the options that we are talking about after I read this.
 but I think that the color pickers could be made easier to understand.
 probably the hole options menu, but I have not read through the hole
>>> thing.
 
 For all the user cares, a simplified image just showing the page, the
> general toolbar area, and so on would probably be sufficient
 
 
 I think that this is a good idea we could make different pages for what
 colors the user is choosing at that time. so when the user is choosing
>>> the
 page Header and page Footer it shows them what they will look like.
 
 On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Christopher Lee
 mailto:gunboatdeba...@gmail.com)>wrote:
 
> I don't think it would be that hard to do a preview-- you wouldn't even
> need to have it be completely representative. For all the user cares, a
> simplified image just showing the page, the general toolbar area, and
>>> so on
> would probably be sufficient-- and it would be no harder to implement
>>> than
> an apply button from a programming perspective (probably simpler,
> actually!). I'm not saying Apply is bad, but the dialogue for options
>>> right
> now is kind of huge, especially for tight screens.
> 
> --
> Christopher Lee
> Executive Director
> Champion Debate
> 
> 
> On Thursday, July 14, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I like the idea that the colors and them be a "live preview" it
>>> will
> just
>> be some time before that is implemented it sounds complicated. but
>>> till
>> then I think that the Apply button will work nicely.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:45 PM, RGB ES > (mailto:rgb.m...@gmail.com) (mailto:
>>> rgb.m...@gmail.com (mailt