Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-website] Development of new LibreOffice Extensions and Templates Website - Current Status

2016-01-24 Thread Andreas Mantke 
Hello Charles,

Am 23.01.2016 um 21:47 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz:
> Hello Andreas,
>
> Andreas Mantke  @ 2016-01-23 11:05 CET:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> ()
>> I'm afraid we could only start with further steps once we got enough
>> volunteers to test the current development status.
>>
>> There is self-registration opened since some weeks. It's also possible
>> to create and play with content on the test website, but nobody has
>> given the new site a try up to now.
> We cannot force people to test the platform :-) So we may want to go ahead
> with the tendering process and make sure tests are included in the migration
> tender. Does it make sense?

although we cannot force people to test, we need some tests from
possible contributors and not from migration professionals first. We
need to know, if there is nothing wrong in the work flow from a users
perspective and if there are no (minor) bugs.
It's important to have a qa of the current forms and work flow before we
go ahead. If there is no interest to work on such tests I have some
issues with the conclusion of a huge demand in website improvements.

Once we made the necessary tests we could tender the migration, because
we know the connection of the old and the new content objects (and their
fields) then. The tests shouldn't take too much time. If we have a few
volunteers we could manage this maybe in a week or so. It's not a huge
effort. It's not like testing an office application ;-)

Regards,
Andreas

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-website] Development of new LibreOffice Extensions and Templates Website - Current Status

2016-01-24 Thread Heiko Tietze 
On Sunday, 24 January 2016 11:42:44 CET Andreas Mantke wrote:
> although we cannot force people to test, we need some tests from
> possible contributors and not from migration professionals first. We
> need to know, if there is nothing wrong in the work flow from a users
> perspective and if there are no (minor) bugs.

What specifically do you want to know? I guess you have tested well that 
registration works, if stuff can get uploaded etc. I see some UX confusions 
but those are likely to be solved during the migration. In other words, as a 
non-contributor in this field I feel overwhelmed by the amount of functions.
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

2016-01-24 Thread Italo Vignoli 
I did not answer to your previous email, to avoid spending time on this
discussion, but as you have repeated your statement about my supposedly
"rude" reaction I think I have to explain what has happened in detail.

On 22/01/16 15:38, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote:

> As for the rudeness of the feedback of real world users. If they passed
> that feedback to you like why didn't you or Italo *simply filtered and
> presented that feedback in a polite manner*?

If you consider my words as rude, you have never seen a real "rude"
reaction from myself. When I realized that what I considered a bug of
the 5.1 beta was instead a supposed improvement, I asked a number of
Italian users their opinion and they all confirmed my POV.

So, I wrote a personal email to Kendy to raise the issue, and avoid a
public discussion. After a couple of days, I escalated to the mailing
list as I did not get any answer (and we were already at RC1), to get
some feedback.

>>> As for Italo complaints, I find them very unfair since he was really
>>> aggressive and even issued threats when he just complained in a really
>>> late stage of the development process for 5.1.

Sorry, but I do not see the threat in my words. If a software becomes
unusable for a large number of users (Impress is not the most used LO
module, but is replacing PowerPoint for companies migrating from MS
Office to LibreOffice, and as such must be usable), I am worried.

The situation will improve with RC3, but the fact that users can access
slide masters with a single click of the mouse represents an issue for
all large implementations were users are not allowed to edit slide
masters (because they are part of the visual identity).

Microsoft Office and Apple Keynote are forcing users to make a specific
choice to access slide masters.

LibreOffice Impress was based on the same concept. We were training
users not to access that submenu to avoid issues, and to ask their tech
support for changes to slide masters.

With the new menu, basic users can access slide views and slide masters
with one click. If they choose slide master instead of slide view, and
make a change, they can damage the entire presentation.

If this happens (based on my experience, I can tell you that this will
happen quite frequently), users will call tech support (because they do
not understand where the issue come from) and this will increase the
cost of LibreOffice support.

We must be extremely careful about the overall cost of ownership of
LibreOffice, because Microsoft is trying to convince organizations that
migrating to LibreOffice will increase their costs.

Creating a potential increase of calls to tech support is something that
we should avoid. Maybe, this is something that the author of the change
to the Impress UI has not foreseen, because he was not aware of Impress
usage patterns inside large organizations.

>> Yes it was a bit aggressive, but that's the feedback of real users in
>> real-world usage...

If changes are not communicated (and the fact that they are discussed
during design hangouts means that they are not communicated, at least to
people in touch with users, who are not involved in design but are
impacted by changes to the UI), you cannot expect a nice and sweet
reaction by people who see their work affected by the changes.

If you think that these people should participate in design hangouts,
then you should place these hangouts outside working hours, manage the
hangout in their native language as they are not fluent in English, and
publicize the hangouts in a better way.

This is my last email on the subject of the Impress Mode Toolbar for
LibreOffice 5.1. After the launch of LibreOffice 5.1 I will be happy to
provide my feedback on the UI changes, and - for sue - I will do it way
before they are implemented.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-website] Development of new LibreOffice Extensions and Templates Website - Current Status

2016-01-24 Thread Andreas Mantke 
Hello Heiko,

Am 24.01.2016 um 11:59 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> On Sunday, 24 January 2016 11:42:44 CET Andreas Mantke wrote:
>> although we cannot force people to test, we need some tests from
>> possible contributors and not from migration professionals first. We
>> need to know, if there is nothing wrong in the work flow from a users
>> perspective and if there are no (minor) bugs.
> What specifically do you want to know? I guess you have tested well that 
> registration works, if stuff can get uploaded etc. I see some UX confusions 
> but those are likely to be solved during the migration. In other words, as a 
> non-contributor in this field I feel overwhelmed by the amount of functions.

I tested the add-on myself, but that's not the same as a test with the
eyes and the work flow of a non-developer (of this add-on). Thus I think
fresh and independent eyes would be of great help.

About the UX issues: maybe you could draft a list and we could discuss
and could sort them out. I think that would be a necessary step before
the web-designer starts working.

Regards,
Andreas

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Cover art for LO v5.x user guides?

2016-01-24 Thread K-J LibreOffice 

Am 18.01.2016 um 06:53 schrieb Jean Weber:

Has anyone created cover art suitable for the LO v5.x user guides? If
so, please provide link to the SVG file. Thanks!


Here are my first proposals to discuss:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:K-j/Drafts/Design/Front-Guide#LibreOffice_5

If someone can do it better he/she should do it.

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k-j

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