[libreoffice-design] Plone site & grief (was: Topic for design team to investigate: Content hosting consolidation on ask.libreoffice.org)

2018-11-05 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi Andi,

first off, I'm very sorry these things seem to have taken a turn for
the worse.

I'm trying to move this part of the discussion now off the design
list, and onto board-discuss, as it seems to primarily deal with
interaction style, within & from the board. So Fup2 board-discuss
please.

Beyond some details below, where I'd love to get to is getting over
personal gripes eventually (on all sides - happy to call you any time,
to hear what you'd expect here!); perhaps with a way to keep you
engaged with the community you've helped building, but at least with a
way for the project to keep the Plone sites running properly for the
while.

Andreas Mantke wrote:
> There were no real internal discussions with the board about issues.
>
Not to put too fine a point on it - but we discussed the issues around
the queue of pending submissions e.g. in January & February this year,
on the infra/hostmaster list.

Also in 2016, a discussion not too different from the one here took
place inside the board, when looking for options to go beyond the
first version of the template & extension site.

> But afterwards I was kicked out by this thread. I'm not used to be
> pilloried for my work during my spare time. And maybe others too.
>
Please don't take this as pillorying you. If it came across like that
- apologies. In fact, without the original Plone sites, LibreOffice
wouldn't have had a templates & extension repo for a long time, and no
one disputes the relevance of that.

What we're trying to do here, is to move beyond the sole-developer /
sole-admin situation that is manifest since quite a few years (and I
can well believe how much of a personal burden that must have been).

I therefore hope we can all agree that the current setup is not
very sustainable, and work constructively from there.

All the very best,

-- Thorsten
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Topic for design team to investigate: Content hosting consolidation on ask.libreoffice.org

2018-10-11 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi Bjoern, *,

Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
> This is despite volunteer efforts trying to move this forward, but
> stalling due to limited resources, which led to TDF even attempting
> to get commercial support for Plone[2] to augment the the limited
> volunteer ressources available.
>
Just to spell the above out a bit - despite heroic efforts from Andi,
indeed it appeared the plone site never attracted enough other
contributors.

So tons of kudos go to Andi here; still I agree with Bjoern that it
would be good to also look for alternative solutions now.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten
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[libreoffice-design] Re: [] Unit #127283524 (de)

2017-04-24 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Sophie Gautier wrote:
> Le 22/04/2017 à 13:39, Thomas Hackert a écrit :
> > ... shows "counter-clockwise" as a mathematical expression. Would
> > someone be so kind to explain, in which context it is meant here,
> > please?
> 
> The context seems to be the rotation menu in Impress or Draw, rotation
> to be applied to an object. I transfer your mail to the design list,
> because I don't know if the English writing is ok or not.
>
To be precise, it's part of the object animation effect dialogs -
offering which way to rotate a shape (and the amount, full, half-way
etc) during slideshow animations.

I find the hyphenated version slightly more accessible (it being
juxtaposed with clockwise one line down), also FWICT leo.org prefers
that spelling even for AmE.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: ODF spec for hiding a shape or group

2016-08-08 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Jos van den Oever wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 August 2016 16:31:18 Regina wrote:
> > Jos, Thorsten, should we adapt the specification to the way LibreOffice
> > and Calligra do it? It would implicate, that the z-index need not be
> > unique over the whole document, but only locally on the level.
> 
> Yes we should propose it. This is how it works in CSS and XSL-FO and ODF 
> should be the same and at least LO and Calligra implementations work like how 
> CSS and XSL-FO describe it.
> 
Hi guys,

sorry for being a bit late on this (2 weeks off) - yes, I'd support
that idea. Was there any action on the TC side yet?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal to improve layer handling and object selection

2016-07-11 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Regina Henschel wrote:
> Heiko Tietze schrieb:
> > What you discuss about the z-order is exactly how Inkscape work: the
> > first layer in the list is the topmost. And it should be the same for
> > Draw.  Access to any object, layer, group or object is done similarly
> > via the
> navigator in order to simplify the workflow and clean the UI. It mixes tab
> and z-order intentionally.
> > Changing the access to these features would also fix the issues, hopefully.
> 
> It seems, I was not clear enough. In ODF the z-order is _completely
> different_ from the layer.
> 

Right. So the feature is mainly useful for quickly showing and hiding
subsets of the Drawing - and it's orthogonal to everything else,
including z-order & navigation order.

Compare it to grouping or tagging, but it's without the hard-link when
e.g. moving grouped shapes around.

As such it's helpful. And the before is no statement about the
usefulness of layers in the meaning of Inkscape, Gimp or the like.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal to improve layer handling and object selection

2016-07-11 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Heiko Tietze wrote:
> The idea to hide objects from layer a and b but keep others makes
> not much sense.
>
Sure it does - see e.g. the print layer.

> And a group over layer boundaries sounds also like a nightmare when
> you open the drawing after some time.
>
I guess any sort of advanced feature can be confusing to the
unsuspecting user. ;)

Anyway - I'm under the impression the largest issue is in the
naming. 'Layer' seem to be well-established as a concept elsewhere,
the Draw one does not match it. Rename to 'tagging' & move on?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Updates / design ideas for hackfest & mini-conf flyers?

2016-02-08 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi guys,

there's some preps & planning under way to have a hackfest combined
probably with a Spanish mini-conference in April:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Events/LibreOffice_Espania_Summit

, and it would be cool to have some flyers to distribute at the local
university.

The wiki has a gallery of existing flyers
(https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Flyers), should we simply
reuse one there -- e.g. the one from the Hamburg hackfest -- or would
someone be able to create a new design, using the refreshed logos etc?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Why are not all dialog boxes are resizable?

2015-10-21 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Heiko Tietze wrote:
> Confirmation dialogs are never resizable on Windows (although I
> don''t find a guideline for this statement right now [1]).
>
Good point, indeed.

> And why should a user want to resize the "Export to PDF" dialog?
>
See later answers - it now has input fields in the signing tab page,
so conceivably it makes sense now?

> It adds a lot of complexity to the dialog since min/max width/height
> have to be considered carefully, a grid layout needs to be added,
> the properties have to be stored (per user/workstation/company?)
> etc.
>
Shouldn't most/all of that come for free now with the ui-layoutet
dialogs?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: Icon theme licenses

2015-10-19 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Yousuf 'Jay' Philips wrote:
> I'm bringing up this issue as the designer of the Kalahari icon theme for
> LibreOffice, Mariano Gaudix, would like to upstream his work, as he has been
> actively working on it and had previously asked about including it in the
> past. The Kalahari icon theme comes in colored and monochrome versions and
> it includes work from GPL-licensed Human and Faenza.
> 
Hi guys,

how about discussing this on the ESC this week, if you can make it?
Personally, I'm not super-eager to deviate from this project's
established license practice (CC-BY/LGPL/MPL) - curiously, the
gnome-look page you link to even states Kalahari is MPL?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX

2015-07-19 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Heiko Tietze wrote:
> What's your schedule, Katarina? Do we have as much time as the prior
> art took?
> 
Let's put it that way - the current attention of that topic could be
used for some quick iterative improvements. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress Remote Icon

2013-03-06 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi Mirek, Adolfo, all -

kudos to you and the rest of the design team, great stuff you're
doing here!

Just passing by to mention that, and to tell you that your artwork is
making the headlines, e.g.:

 
http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LibreOffice-4-0-1-delivers-Android-remote-for-all-1817680.html

:)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New Branding

2013-03-04 Thread Thorsten Behrens
klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote:
> Not happened by now.
> 
Stuck all I had into:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Product_Graphics

HTH,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Flat Icons Guidelines

2013-02-27 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi Issa,

you wrote:
> Here is a rough list of guidelines for designing the flat icons
> which I compiled from jimmac on irc and stereotype on her blog
> (GNOME symbolic icons designers):
> 
>   1.  Use a 16x16 primary canvas.
>
[snip]

Let me add a 

13. Group, layer, and name the icon area placeholder according to
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/User_Experience/Tools 
section SVG Icon / Graphics Workflow, so that we can extract and
convert them by script.

I'd need to re-find the svgs that have this labelling for examples,
but the extraction script generally expects a _ labelling,
and exports to .png - of course that can be adjusted. Just
be consistent. :)

(I can do that for a handful of icons manually, as done for the
android icons - but it becomes intractable for large icon sets. Of
course, cannot harm to equip also the android icons with said labels)

Beyond that, great initiative - thanks a lot! And, once the workflow
is decided, prolly worth sticking to the wiki prominently?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Remote Icon

2013-02-27 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Issa Alkurtass wrote:
> Shouldn't we add the store banner to the visual elements as well?
>
Yes please - didn't find an svg yet for it.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New Branding

2013-02-26 Thread Thorsten Behrens
klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote:
> As it is now in the new version: can we get the svg in the wiki in order
> to make some marketing material or so?
> 
Did that happen yet? If not, where would be the place to stick it
into?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress Remote Icon

2013-02-26 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Issa Alkurtass wrote:
> Issa Alkurtass wrote on February 24, 2013 9:37 PM: >I didn't know
> today was the deadline. I made a new one but it still needs a little
> tweaking >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:I_remote.png
> >(SVG https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:I_remote.svg)
> 
Hacked that into shape, it is committed to master and the -4-0 branch,
due for the next sdremote update. Thanks a lot, nice work!

I also took Maxim's splash screen and adapted it for the android about
box.

I wonder, should we somehow stick that (including svg) into a page
like
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Impress_Remote_branding?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Libre Graphics Meeting?

2013-02-20 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Italo Vignoli wrote:
> I do not see any problem in paying such an expense through SPI.
> 
Yep - Mirek, could you please request this amount (better add a bit of
headroom for price increases) on board-discuss? If LGM pays for it, we
simple let the budget lapse, but I think it is instrumental for the
two projects to collaborate.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Libre Graphics Meeting?

2013-02-19 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Italo Vignoli wrote:
> I think it is an excellent idea. Do not forget to ask for travel
> funds on board discuss, in order to allow the BoD to approve the
> amount.
> 
What Italo says. If you want to go, please hurry up, research your
travel options, and tell the board (hint: we have board meeting
tomorrow). :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress Remote Icon

2013-02-19 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> Thanks for the SVG by the way, I was about to create a store promo
> banner for the app.
> 
Oh lovely - once this is final, can you point me to it please?

Would it be possible to get some final icon until next Sunday, so we
can ship that with the update to LibO 4.0.1 (which will have vastly
more users being able to actually use the remote)?

Thanks,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice 2012 conference template needed - any takers?

2012-09-21 Thread Thorsten Behrens
klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote:
> Second proposal: "Paris Template", only changing the logo, location
> and time stamp
> 
I like

 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Proposal_LibOConf2012_Inverted_Template.odp

, especially the title page. Maybe the actual content pages could be
made with a slightly more pastel / gradient background, such that
they are not that dominant any more?

Otherwise, if you guys have no violent objections, let's take what's
there until Monday?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice 2012 conference template needed - any takers?

2012-09-18 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi design team,

I just realize that

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Events/Berlin2012_Conference

has a bit of a white spot wrt. conference Impress template - 

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/ConferenceTemplates

should have something to start off of, I wonder if one of you had
the free cycles to draft something here quickly?

Many thanks, and sorry for not noticing earlier,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] libreoffice.org/download page - review/feedback request

2012-06-29 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi there,

since I was hacking at $subject in the past few days, and got a
number of questions / suggestions - if there's an easy UX blunder or
two that you've discovered, would love to hear suggestions.

Note that I'm probably not be able to do _big_ changes.

One of the questions that came up btw was the "Handy resources"
column - is that relevant, can we e.g. stress items there more than
others (Documentation comes to mind)?

>From my POV, this is the list of stuff, in decreasing order of
importance, that people would want to download:

 * the main installer
 * help
 * documentation

and with some distance:
 * iso images, release notes, feature list

Or?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Next year: opportunity for professional silk-screen LibreOffice swag production

2012-05-29 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi there,

while at LinuxTag last weekend, I chatted with the girl, running the
resident swag shop there, nicely located at the main entrance / exit
aisle.

Her deal is to produce real silk-screened cotton prints (on
http://www.basic-wear-gmbh.de/ basics currently), sell them at the
venue rather affordably, and afterwards hand over the remaining
stock to the projects for her base price (which is low, due to the
volume she buys).

Something to ponder at least I think. She asks for some 6 weeks
advance notice, I'll stick that to my calendar just in case.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [RFC] tweaked b/w TDF logo for letterheads, stamps etc.

2012-04-23 Thread Thorsten Behrens
klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote:
> Am 21.04.2012 13:24, schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron):
> >Hello Thorsten,
> >
> >mostly, I thought it looked good. I've edited it a tiny bit, to make
> >the logo as large as the text and also trying to enforce the 1/2 width
> >of a document symbol distance everywhere.
> >I've added a variant (the bottom one) that should work without the
> >Vegur font being installed (i.e. letters as paths)... that's it.
> >Accidentally, I also replaced your file in the wiki... sorry.
> 
> I took Astron's (and Thorsten's) proposal and align it to get a
> rectangle (like a stamp is). Then I made a half space between 10 and
> 117 to make it in typography.
> 
Thanks guys, looks great - I'd go with k-j's version then, but w/o
the half space I guess.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [RFC] tweaked b/w TDF logo for letterheads, stamps etc.

2012-04-20 Thread Thorsten Behrens
>  http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Stamp_draft_2012-04-11.svg
> 
Hi there,

anyone wanting to pick this up? I'd otherwise go ahead with the
draft. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [RFC] tweaked b/w TDF logo for letterheads, stamps etc.

2012-04-11 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Andrew Pullins wrote:
> where can we find this picture?
> 
Gnah, not used to mailing lists stripping attachments anymore - 
sorry for the hassle, file is here now:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Stamp_draft_2012-04-11.svg

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] [RFC] tweaked b/w TDF logo for letterheads, stamps etc.

2012-04-11 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi design list,

I've messed a bit with our logo, to fit in an address line & some
other helpful information - design feedback / improvements much
appreciated! ;)

(I'd like to keep this black/white indeed)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Opinions on new icons for the Start Center?

2011-12-15 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Cool, would you be so kind to guide Alexander through what he has to do
> to submit the icons?
> 
Reach consensus here, shoot me a mail to the svg / ideally to
generated pngs already. See
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/5/5c/2011-11-20_LibreOffice_External_Artwork.svg
and http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Work_Items in general
for how other artwork had been prepared.

HTH,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Opinions on new icons for the Start Center?

2011-12-15 Thread Thorsten Behrens
alexander.wilms wrote:
> I made some new icons for the Start Center so that we can replace the 
> 'legacy' ones:
> 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Alexander_Wilms#Stuff
> 
> What do you think? @Steffan: I think placing the jigsaw piece inside the 
> document logo makes the icon look to busy.
> 
Hi Alex, all,

just to raise this flag - though we'd slipped a bit with beta1,
please assume that Monday, Dec. 19th is hard UI freeze. :)

 (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/3.5)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-website] TDF shops (Fw: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Someone wants to setup demo shop with CafePress?)

2011-11-30 Thread Thorsten Behrens
> would someone volunteer setting up a http://shop.libreoffice.org
> landing page, that would then link to
>  
>  http://libreoffice.spreadshirt.dk 
> 
> and others as they become available? FWIW, trying to fight cafepress
> currently to have a prototype shop there as well...
> 
FWIW, less-prototype now -

 http://www.cafepress.com/thedocumentfoundationstore

At some point in time, of course the design team might have input
here as well ... :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] I'm going to leave the community - thanks to all of you!

2011-10-29 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> From now on I will try to spend more time with the most important
> people in my real life: my children and my friends.
> Even if I like being here very much, real life is more important -
> and if you understand that you have to spend your time wisely, your
> decision is clear...
> 
Hi Bernhard,

it's of course with sadness that I read your words, but at the same
time I can only assure you that you made the right decision - never
compromise on the ones closest to you, and even more so for kids.

Thanks for all the great work you did - and be proud that some very
visible parts of LibreOffice were made by you.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Windows Icons

2011-09-30 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> @ Thorsten: Do you know the reason? And, how to correct that - what's
> required from our side?
> 
Meh, the original png icons in git *do* have alpha - would need to
check where in the process that got lost.

Ivan, would be good to know what those files in windows-icons.7z are
- did you copy those from inside the installed office directory? If
they are all based on those .ico files - that might be a problem in
my toolchain here.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreGraphics Meeting

2011-06-12 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> a friend of Florian and mine pointed us to a quite unique event in the FLOSS
> world, the LibreGraphics Meeting (http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org) .
> The 2011 edition just ended but since we do have a graphics application
> (Draw), it could be interesting to join that event. Any volunteers? We can
> connect you with the event organizers.
> 
I usually attent the LGM, when it's in Europe, and there were folks
even using Writer for artistic work. Beyond the "libre" theme, there
are many potential areas for technical cooperation, including clip
arts, swatch books, color selection and calibration, and much more.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] [ANN] List for collaboration around user experience topics created

2011-06-01 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi folks,

with the design team (and the UX people, as part of that), and the
hackers mostly working on separate lists, we thought it would be
helpful to provide a low-traffic, easy-to-post-to third list, where
interested parties of either side can meet - the list 

 * is unmoderated, i.e. you can post without subscribing
 * does not change Reply-To, so you're free to use that according to
   your needs
 * draft list topic: "Meeting ground for hackers and UX experts -
   get advise here for user experience questions"

It would be great if people working on UI-relevant hacks could give
a quick shout there - and conversely, it would be cool if a few UX
experts could monitor that list, funnel the question to the design
list & get back with some actionable results.

The list address is: libreoffice-ux-adv...@lists.freedesktop.org

(see also
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Obsoleted Mac installer icon

2011-05-25 Thread Thorsten Behrens
> This is fixed for 3.4.x, awaiting triple review currently for 3.4.0.
> 
Fixed for 3.4.0 - currently Mac builds are landing in the
pre-releases repo.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback & reminder - and of course also
for the neat Tango/Galaxy icon updates! :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Obsoleted Mac installer icon

2011-05-23 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> > From this bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36906
> >The Mac installer icon is currently an OOo icon located at
> >http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/components/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
> >So, which file should we replace this? Do we have to draw new icon, or
> >just copy from another file? (and where is that file?)
> 
> All the new icons have been integrated in the package by Thorsten
> Behrens following the related bug:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229
> 
> The installer icon is already used for the main LibreOffice download
> and even in the German language pack I didn't see the wrong icon
> (but I might be wrong).
> 
This is fixed for 3.4.x, awaiting triple review currently for 3.4.0.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Usability comes from stability

2011-05-10 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Jim Fuqua wrote:
> Change should be optional unless the benefit is profound and the
> learning curve small.
>
Hi Jim,

surely the perception of benefit is highly subjective. And at the
end of the day, it's *you* who decides - if you're happy with what
you have in 3.3, stick to it - we intend to provide a few updates,
should there be critical bugs, to that code line.

> NOTICE: This message (including attachments) is covered [,,,] 
>
That's a joke, on a publicly-archived mailing list?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: Design Team Kick-Off Step 4: What We Need - Review, Please

2011-04-29 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> @ Björn, Thorsten: I've CCed you, since you have been active in some
> discussions here - could you please scan the table and provide some
> feedback, please? My hope is that you may have a look at the sections: 
>   * Deliverables and Work Results 
>   * Cooperation and Communication With Other Teams 
>   * LibreOffice Technical Basis 
>
Hi Chris,

looks lovely to me, really nothing missing FWICT - just of course
wanting to stress the points of having technical means in place to
make UX enhancements easier (aka layout dialogs), and that having
a set of 'EasyHacks' also for the design tasks is critical. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Git Artwork guide

2011-04-22 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> Since, we already have a "Tools" page I've started at OOo, so ...
>   * linked to the GitArtworkGuide from there and also added a link
> to the artwork repository (cgit)
>   * moved Thorsten's description (icon workflow) to this page
>   * linked to the new items from the "LibreOffice Initial Icons"
> page
> 
Perfect, thank you - the former place was not ideal, I just wanted
to have it put down *somewhere*. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] "SmartArt" into libreoffice? - sorry this time without html

2011-03-17 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Andreas Mantke wrote:
> I know that there was already a old childworkspace in the CVS of OOo. It was 
> a 
> Chinese developer that started the work with a smartart implementation for 
> OOo. He 
> presented his work in Orvieto. I can search for the data of this 
> childworkspace and 
> the explanation in the OOo-Wiki, if that helps.
> 
Hi Andy, *,

there's actually also a second implementation, by yours truly - 
although mine is mostly focused on importing smartart correctly, but
the code is also suitable to serve as the basis for editing:

http://blog.thebehrens.net/2009/03/11/smartart-import-and-more/

I had a talk about that in Orvieto as well (sorry, the conference
site is a mess & I'm not able to find anything there) - slides are
here:

http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/talks/quick-diagramming-2009.odp

The Chinese CWS seems dormant, and my implementation also needs some
love. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout

2011-03-10 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
> > For a developer interested in working on a certain topic it would be 
> > easier to get a final voting like
> > "The Design Team asks you to add a 8 px wide blurred shadow in grey 
> > transparency to all borders of the document. If the zoom factor
> > reduces the space between two sheets to less than 16px, the
> > overlapping areas of the shadow should be cut off. This should apply
> > to every area of LibreOffice, where document borders are visible,
> > namely Writer, Impress, Draw, XML forms [others not yet searched
> > for]."
> 
> I am afraid you are very wrong there. It is not at all easier -- it
> is a lot harder -- and a lot less fun (the stuff that motivates
> volunteers).
>
Speaking for myself here - I'd consider it *helpful* to get
direction on those details. For me, it's not telling me how to code,
but what to put into all those magic constant values needed for UI -
I'd otherwise would need to trial-and-error those out, which is
non-fun (for me).

Besides, at least those bike-shed-color issues, are usually
trivially fixable after-the-fact ... ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: More general stuff (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout)

2011-03-10 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> To be honest, I'm currently relying on released versions. I heard that
> it is planned to establish nightly builds, but I fear this work isn't
> finished. I also know that there is some tinderbox, but - again, as far
> as I know - it just continuously checks for compiler issues. At OOo, we
> could use buildbots to create "installsets" on demand for certain Child
> Workspaces.
> 
Hi Chris, all,

this is indeed being worked on - we have nighly builds for one
platform (Mac) already, stay tuned for the other:

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/MacOS/master/

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons

2011-02-09 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> But, here comes the question to a new toto item - Thorsten: Kendy
> mentioned yesterday that some icons might be missing. Is it right that
> we lack toolbar icons for (e.g.) the File-New-Dropdown? If yes, what
> size is required here?
> 
Nope, we have those.

> According to the Galaxy icon set page, it should be 26x26 - can you
> confirm?
> 
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html
> 
Heh, no friggin' idea - but yeah, that page says: small size (16 x
16 pixel), large size (26 x 26 pixel), high contrast version of all
icons. ;)

More importantly, as prompted by Kendy, the Tango icon set has the
following style guide (excerpt from
http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines - that has
many more info for keeping a homogeneous design):

Large:   48×48
Medium:  32x32
Small:   22×22 pixels - blow up to 24×24 by adding a 1 pixel
 empty space on all sides
Extra Small: 16×16 pixels

(A RC1 preview download for Mac, with the new icons, is available
here:
http://download.go-oo.org/thb/libreoffice/mac/LibO_3.3.1rc1_MacOS_x86_install_en-US.dmg)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons

2011-02-08 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> I'd prefer him to upload it and add the licenses instead of someone
> else doing it with reference to the mail.
> 
Updated on the wiki now -
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg

(should have done that right away, sorry)

Cheers,

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

2011-02-04 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> In the file I got from your link, the placeholders have no filling,
> so modification to the opacity doesn't work.
> 
> I can't see any color on any object I add to this layer (even with
> 100% opacity). Can you tell me, where to change this opacity for the
> entire layer?
> 
Hi Bernhard,

there's a slider in the "Layer" tab in inkscape, that controls
overall layer opacity. I had that turned to 0 already, prior to
running my script on it.

> As you already did the naming for all the placeholders, we can just
> work on the icons and improve them - as long as we leave the
> placeholders (and the positions of the icons) unchanged, the script
> will be able to extract the icons.
> 
Yes. This was just to explain the process - and of course it has to
be kept in mind, should someone want to add new icons/new sizes.
Note that the script is stupid, and exports everything with a
properly-formatted label set - so I e.g. did not set labels for the
missing 256 pixel icons. ;)

> PS: Would you mind licensing your modifications to the source under
> the triple license in the wiki: CC-by-sa/LGPL/MPL ?
> This would allow us to use your file as the basis for the next iterations...
> 
Oh not at all, consider that implied for future submissions!

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] [REVIEW] New mimetype icons - need patch review for -3-3

2011-02-03 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi,

please find a set of patches to bring the new mimetype icons into
LibO-3-3 here:

http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/0001-New-mimetype-icons-for-LibreOffice-artwork.patch
http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/0002-New-mimetype-icons-for-LibreOffice-components.patch
http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/0003-New-mimetype-icons-for-LibreOffice-libs-core.patch
http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/0004-New-mimetype-icons-for-LibreOffice-artwork.patch

the source svg for those is here:

http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons.svg

the scripts to convert, and distribute, are here:

http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/icon-update.tgz

I'd need a patch review before committing that to -3-3. Linux & Mac
builds work fine & look great, did not yet try win32.

Oh, and it's tracked in this bug:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

2011-02-03 Thread Thorsten Behrens
> > Do you want us to work on single source files for each icon?
> > 
> Yes, that's the proposal. Makes an automated workflow much easier,
> one can give the svgs telling names, etc etc.
> 
Slight change in plan - since the mimetype icons are so similar (in
terms of gradients, borders, colors etc), thought it may actually be
a good idea to keep it in one source file - assigned proper area
placeholder labels therefore, and uploaded the tweaked svg here:

http://users.freedesktop.org/~thorsten/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons.svg

There's a tiny Python script that scrapes the label names from the
svg, and calls inkscape to export individual pngs from it.

It works like this: you make the "Size Placeholder Document Symbols"
layer editable, and (for ease of handling) crank its opacity to
100%. For each column (like Writer), you select one of the
placeholders, and set its Object Properties -> Label. For existing
icons, you notice the naming scheme, e.g. "main_128_hc" or
"main_128". Before running the script, of course you need to set
that placeholder layer opacity back to 0, to not have it visible.

I strongly suggest similar setups, should we even touch other icons.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

2011-02-02 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> > It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this 
> > way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it 
> > tomorrow) and other tasks !
> 
> Thorsten, might that work? I didn't follow the discussion that closely
> concerning how to export / do the icons. Do you need some help, then
> please ask on the mailing list.
> 
Will work, will keep you posted. :)

Cheers,

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!

2011-02-02 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> >(so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue
> >working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a
> >lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork)
> 
> Do you want us to work on single source files for each icon?
> 
Yes, that's the proposal. Makes an automated workflow much easier,
one can give the svgs telling names, etc etc.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...

2011-02-01 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Bernhard Dippold wrote:
> I don't know if any of the other icons need some more work, but we
> should be able to finish this task until next week.
> 
[snip]

> Take your time! Your family and friends are more important than LibO
> (perhaps you can tell them about this community and the product ;-)
> ).
> 
> Come back later - there will still be enough to be done...
> 
Hi Bernhard, *

according to
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#3.3.1_release the RC
for 3.3.1 will be tagged next Monday, and I'll be at FOSDEM all
weekend - so for any artwork to make it into that release, I'd need
it by tomorrow 18:00 UTC. Is that possible/acceptable?

I'd then volunteer to extract the stuff into pngs (assuming proper
selection areas are still in place), and split stuff up into
individual files, according to this workflow:

pixelpushercast.blip.tv/file/1075329/

(with a nice script to convert those files into bitmaps here:
http://ladish.org/browser/art/render-bitmaps.rb)

(so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue
working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a
lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...

2011-01-25 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Jaron Kuppers wrote:
> Perhaps the code people might even take this opportunity to change
> the code a little to consolidate references to icons in the code.
>
We did, although not for the 3.3.x code line. So for the while,
we'll have to bear the pain. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] branding colors - missmatch

2011-01-20 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> > There is still another problem. You desided to use a "Vegur"-font as a
> > standard font. Unfortunatly this font does not have all nessessary
> > characters (f.e. no "ä", "ü", "ö", "ß") - so it is not possible to use
> > this font for text.
> > This was not a very good idea 
> 
> Let's say, given the time and opportunity, it was okay to go with this
> font (in my opinion). Thus, we knew that problems in advance, but since
> it is rather "neutral", substitutes for remaining text should work well.
> 
Unless someone beats me to it - at least äüö and other diacritical
marks should be trivially addable with fontforge or somesuch, no?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] A few more OOo-style icons

2010-12-10 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi,

just so you're aware, there are a few additional OOo-branded icons
in the product, see

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31608

for details.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] Updated artwork for RC

2010-11-29 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Hi Chris,

you wrote:
> Just to be sure - did you also update the position of the progress bars?
>
Yep.

> And, looking at the files list below, it seems that the original
> filenames (picked from the OOo UI project) changed a bit. Would it be
> helpful to rename the icons within the artwork package? If yes, then I'd
> add this to my todo stack or maybe asking for help on the design list.
>
I *kinda* hoped you would ask - yes, that would make things easier,
going forward. ;)

Additionally, there's currently quite a bit of duplication, e.g. we
do not have any _hc images whatsoever, also the _rtl_ ones are just
copied.

Also the default_images..framework and ..brand images are currently
duplicated, Michael, can we consolidate that?

At finally, there's a big icon cleanup in progress currently, I hope
I did not interfere too much with that.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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[libreoffice-design] Re: Work Topic "Finalize and Publish Product Artwork" etc.

2010-11-25 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> several times, I've mentioned the update of the artwork for the final
> LibreOffice release. I finally managed to invest some time to export the
> graphics and to upload the data to the wiki. It is currently
> (temporarily) located in the work items list ...
> 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Work_Items#Work_Items
> 
Hi Chris,

wow, quite timely - today we pondered rc dates in the engineering
call, and aim for going directly to rc1 (i.e. no extra betas
anymore). Gimme a shout when this is ~final (small adjustments are
of course always possible).

What was the timeline again for the mimetype icons?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: Product Artwork (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Roadmap - More structure, please!)

2010-11-24 Thread Thorsten Behrens
Christoph Noack wrote:
> > I wouldn't like to start anything without getting a clear signal from
> > the devs/QA as to just how much time we have to do this - if there's
> > not much time, then I'd prefer to avoid rushing.
> 
> Thorsten, the question to you - is implementing a set of preliminary
> icons possible. Will there be another beta to make sure that everything
> works fine? Or should we forget about the idea of different icons (to be
> honest, if we could come up with own icons, this would make the LibO
> release perfect).
> 
Hi Chris, all,

hm, slightly disconnected from the whole icon topic - what's the
scope, surely not a complete icon set? If this is only about some
10-20 icons, and you folks are quick, that could be doable - I've
heard other people asking for another beta, too.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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