Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
Hi Mirek, long email Am 27.07.2014 um 14:40 schrieb Mirek M.: Hi KJ, You keep arguing for Redmine, but is there something that it provides that the combination of Bugzilla/wiki/mailing list doesn't? We can do our work in this combination, we did it for the last years. And so nearly no other thing will provide something which the combination hasn't. The only thing is, that we can do most of the work in one existing tool. So the question is not what we can do with a new instrument which the combination didn't do, but is it possible to use tools which make the workflow easier, better, fluenter. And: Are these tools easily available for usw ith (nearly) no administration? Example: Sheduling, assigning, watching is possible in the old combination. But you can easier do it in Redmine than in the wiki. If not, I'm afraid that, since we won't be getting rid of any of the three, it will become yet another place to sign up at and track activity. I'd prefer to keep the number of places to track to a minimum. It's the same argument as against any forum or a voting on google+. But you are right. To have too many accounts won't be good for a workflow. *) I think that for the most people who will do design work, there will be in future no need for a wiki account because the whole workflow will be in Redmine. Only a few (the design admins) have to work on the main descriptions for our work. And these will get smaller when we use Redmine (and Redmine has a Wiki, too, if we need one). For me, as I don't do UX but only marketing material, Bugzilla isn't necessary for my design work. And I think, if the design process will work in Redmine the punchs for Buzilla will get smaller. AFAIK our infrastructure team works completely in Redmine. When is a Bugzilla account necessary in design workflow? Only when I have to discuss with the developer. So only for UX as a (big) part of our design team. VI works almost without Bugzilla. As long as we do our design work process, there is no need for a Bugzilla account. So how many Designers, who will get new in here, need a Bugzilla account? And so a new member of the Design team first needs a ml-account and a Redmine-account. As I said above: Every argument against Redmine is an argument against a forum and Google+ etc. So if you think Redmine isn't our workflow program because you need a new account, the others aren't too. And we have to stay with what we have. But I see many advantages to give the TDF-Redmine a try for design workflow. *) As Dennis mentioned the infrastructure team provides to make an own Open-ID or something similar to have only one account for all things for the TDF. -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
Hi KJ, You keep arguing for Redmine, but is there something that it provides that the combination of Bugzilla/wiki/mailing list doesn't? If not, I'm afraid that, since we won't be getting rid of any of the three, it will become yet another place to sign up at and track activity. I'd prefer to keep the number of places to track to a minimum. 2014-07-09 13:43 GMT+02:00 K-J LibreOffice k...@libreoffice.org: Hi Mirek, Am 09.07.2014 00:42, schrieb Mirek M.: 2014-07-08 8:21 GMT+02:00 K-J LibreOffice k...@libreoffice.org: Am 08.07.2014 01:25, schrieb Mirek M.: I hate Bugzilla and I'd love to move to Redmine, but we can't separate design bugs from other bugs -- users need to be able to report and search for both UX bugs and other bugs from the same place. Ok, I missed the point that you talk about design bugs, I thought you talk about the whole design process (as for me design bugs are only a part of our work). I think there is a possibility to do our work in Redmine: The bug itself is in Bugzilla and it should stay there. The key points are defined there. But the process to work on is in Redmine. We can link one to the other. Sometimes we need to describe the current process in Bugzilla but I don't think that it would be so often when the system works. And I think the devs are able to handle Redmine too, except they don't want to do. A question for the next UX-Meeting. For now we do something similar: bug in Bugzilla, Whiteboard in wiki, discussion on ml. We should try it. Maybe it doesn't work but maybe we get the right way to work on. Or is it possible to synchronize Bugzilla bugs and the comments within with Redmine? I don't know but I don't think so. But we are able to link from one to the other. Or am I completely missing the point? I only look at an other side of the bottle. -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
Hi Mirek, Am 09.07.2014 00:42, schrieb Mirek M.: 2014-07-08 8:21 GMT+02:00 K-J LibreOffice k...@libreoffice.org: Am 08.07.2014 01:25, schrieb Mirek M.: I hate Bugzilla and I'd love to move to Redmine, but we can't separate design bugs from other bugs -- users need to be able to report and search for both UX bugs and other bugs from the same place. Ok, I missed the point that you talk about design bugs, I thought you talk about the whole design process (as for me design bugs are only a part of our work). I think there is a possibility to do our work in Redmine: The bug itself is in Bugzilla and it should stay there. The key points are defined there. But the process to work on is in Redmine. We can link one to the other. Sometimes we need to describe the current process in Bugzilla but I don't think that it would be so often when the system works. And I think the devs are able to handle Redmine too, except they don't want to do. A question for the next UX-Meeting. For now we do something similar: bug in Bugzilla, Whiteboard in wiki, discussion on ml. We should try it. Maybe it doesn't work but maybe we get the right way to work on. Or is it possible to synchronize Bugzilla bugs and the comments within with Redmine? I don't know but I don't think so. But we are able to link from one to the other. Or am I completely missing the point? I only look at an other side of the bottle. -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
Hi Mirek, Am 08.07.2014 01:25, schrieb Mirek M.: Hi guys, One of the things we badly need is a good decision-making workflow. We've discussed this on the last IRC chat [1] and that lead to my rough draft: 1) A problem is presented, either on the ux-advise mailing list or on the design list. Feedback and possible solutions are collected on the relevant Bugzilla page or, if a Bugzilla page doesn't make sense for the problem, on the design mailing list. The TDF has a big tool which we can use for our design project workflow: Redmine [1]. The infrastructure team uses it for their work. There we have the possibility to shedule, ticketing, give prioritiy, and it has a better structure for the workers than bugzilla: Everybody can see the process. To find something in bugzilla is very difficult for someone outside. If you think it could be the right tool I will ask Florian, to give the Design project a try. https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/projects -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
2014-07-08 8:21 GMT+02:00 K-J LibreOffice k...@libreoffice.org: Hi Mirek, Am 08.07.2014 01:25, schrieb Mirek M.: Hi guys, One of the things we badly need is a good decision-making workflow. We've discussed this on the last IRC chat [1] and that lead to my rough draft: 1) A problem is presented, either on the ux-advise mailing list or on the design list. Feedback and possible solutions are collected on the relevant Bugzilla page or, if a Bugzilla page doesn't make sense for the problem, on the design mailing list. The TDF has a big tool which we can use for our design project workflow: Redmine [1]. The infrastructure team uses it for their work. There we have the possibility to shedule, ticketing, give prioritiy, and it has a better structure for the workers than bugzilla: Everybody can see the process. To find something in bugzilla is very difficult for someone outside. If you think it could be the right tool I will ask Florian, to give the Design project a try. https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/projects I hate Bugzilla and I'd love to move to Redmine, but we can't separate design bugs from other bugs -- users need to be able to report and search for both UX bugs and other bugs from the same place. Or is it possible to synchronize Bugzilla bugs and the comments within with Redmine? Or am I completely missing the point? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Our decision-making workflow
Hi guys, One of the things we badly need is a good decision-making workflow. We've discussed this on the last IRC chat [1] and that lead to my rough draft: 1) A problem is presented, either on the ux-advise mailing list or on the design list. Feedback and possible solutions are collected on the relevant Bugzilla page or, if a Bugzilla page doesn't make sense for the problem, on the design mailing list. 2) The topic is discussed at the following IRC chat [4]. Proposals that don't adhere to our guidelines and principles or are infeasible are discarded. 3) If all attendees as well as all the design team experts (contacted separately if not present) unanimously agree on a certain proposal, it is chosen as the solution. 4) If they don't, the user testing expert conducts a test of the possible solutions. 5) If a test is inconclusive, proves inaccurate, or can't be held, the proposed solutions are voted on. None of the proposed solutions are satisfactory is always an option. The vote is announced at least on the design mailing list. 6) The whole process is repeated until a satisfactory solution is found. Let's test this workflow by applying it here. Please give feedback and/or propose a different workflow in this thread. [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2014-06-29 [2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
