Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
2014-12-23 13:12 GMT-06:00 Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net: OMG! Did you *actually* have a look a MS templates? They CAN'T (sorry for shouting) be used as they are in any other context than an american one. I love your sarcasm. Can’t we stop seeing issues where there aren’t any? At least have a look at the submissions first, instead of spreading FUD about this initiative. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Jean-François, Le 23/12/2014 20:03, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie all, Le 22/12/2014 15:13, Sophie a écrit : so are you volunteering to write that manual and document the templates or are you only ranting on those who are currently trying and are doing something? of course not: it's up to the template maker to document his/her work. Great, so if you don't intend to do anything, we don't need your rants too. What I want to emphasize is the *need* for documentation and that asking for a *no text* template is in many occurences plain wrong. IOW, providing a template without documenting it is stupid. ah, we were not aware of those necessities and you are here to avoid us doing stupid things by doing nothing. But unfortunately, it's not how it works in an open source community. We don't kill initiatives, we encourage them and enhance the process all along to come to something satisfying to most of our users. If you're not happy with that, either you collaborate to the process or you don't use what we propose. There is no place for discrediting or discouraging others work here. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Sophie all, Le 22/12/2014 15:13, Sophie a écrit : so are you volunteering to write that manual and document the templates or are you only ranting on those who are currently trying and are doing something? of course not: it's up to the template maker to document his/her work. What I want to emphasize is the *need* for documentation and that asking for a *no text* template is in many occurences plain wrong. IOW, providing a template without documenting it is stupid. HTH, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Charles, I guess you took my words way too personnally. Or I couldn't explain myself clearly enough. So let me rephrase it. Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Yes, but as you know in French, criticism is easy, action is more difficult. So I would have guessed you would have come up with an actual proposal. Or maybe it was just a warning that you think that it might lead to problems ? What I wanted to emphasize it that the cultural difference is very important from a country to another. IOW, what is OK for a Swissman won't do for an Italian and so on. Just /translating/ won't do the trick because the visual aspect of the template is culturally defined and *can't* be translated: it has to be thoroughly rethought which is a whole job by itself. Any other word is pure verbiage. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Milan, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? OMG! Did you *actually* have a look a MS templates? They CAN'T (sorry for shouting) be used as they are in any other context than an american one. Just ask any graphical spacialist. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Ah, OK. This may need some careful work by localization teams. not only. There are aesthetical and cultural points that you seem to ignore. *I* for one, wouldn't use *any* foreign template for a French use. Not because they are not translated, but because they don't fit the French culture. Translation is a side job for this matter. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Le mardi 23 décembre 2014 à 20:12 +0100, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Milan, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? OMG! Did you *actually* have a look a MS templates? They CAN'T (sorry for shouting) be used as they are in any other context than an american one. Just ask any graphical spacialist. I'm not very familiar with them except with PowerPoint templates, but I find them much better than what LibreOffice currently offers -- which is nothing for Writer. Anyway people are not forced to use them, they can also choose the one that is closest to their national culture, and some visual diversity can be retained for default templates. (I really doubt preferences in that domain are so strongly rooted in national contexts.) The alternative is to provide nothing, with amounts to 1) leaving people create their own half-polished documents on their own, or 2) download random and often unsatisfying templates from the Web. But you don't seem to be very open to debate this issue, so let's not argue further. Regards -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
On 22/12/14 14:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. Depends upon what the template is to be used for. The United States uses its own system of weights and measurements, even though it was one of the first countries to pass legislation legalizing, and encouraging its usage. Colour schemes tend to be country specific: * Orange, White, and Blue used to be the dominant background colours in South Africa. * Green Red were the dominant background colours in Libya; * Red, Blue, and White are the dominant background colours in the United States; Usages can be country specific. By way of example: * Accounting Templates that meet all legal requirements for Germany, fail to meet all of the legal requirements for the United States, and has things that are unnecessary for US Legal compliance. They may, but probably don't meet the legal requirements of France, or the United Kingdom; * Fuel usage. Depending upon where one lives, this is measured in: # Miles per gallon; # Kilometres per litre; # Litres per 100 kilometres; # Something else; * Human Resource Management: Things that are legal to ask in one country, are illegal to ask in other countries, and mandatory questions in still other countries; * Font style: I always get this mixed up. I _think_ it is Sans Serif for the United States, and Serif for Europe. But it might be the other way around. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? Nationally-rooted implies that the designer consciously includes these country-specific factors. As a general rule, designers are not aware of these country-specific things, unless they have extensive experience with designing things for different cultures. Regardless, for some things, country / national root can be avoided, but for other things, they are pretty much mandated, by either legal, or cultural requirements. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Marc, Le 20/12/2014 14:59, Marc Paré a écrit : [...] Phew ... coming in really late on this discussion and having read the other recent comments elsewhere, I also agree with KJ that there is no need to hurry. IMO, better to give people enough lead time and time to develop nice templates is better than to push for a fast submission. At least making the contest result for the roll-out of 4.4.1 will allow the serious template designers some time to submit quality work rather than hurried work. I can't imagine a serious template developer hurrying with a template submission and compromising quality ... we risk getting submitted templates that are more alpha-early-beta than getting polished templates ready for user/commercial use. Yes, that was a late request but let's go for it. The issue is that the Start Center has a new button for templates and the folder will be empty under several components. That will solve this for the en_US version which is the most downloaded. The localized versions will have an empty folder and the contest will work for them later. We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. IMO, I would even be in favour of pushing this to 4.4.2 or later to leave ample time for user voting ... templates usage are always driven by user usage, and users are quick to recognize the utility of a good template, they would need some time to experiment with any submitted templates before voting. IMO, the template contest is being put on in too much of a short time-frame, will have no community-building value to it -- the users will not even have a say as to which template(s) they find useful. That could be done later with the localization too, which is quite a huge work. Why not just call the contest, and, as newly submitted templates come in, have the designer team do a quick test to QA their addition to the 4.4.x series, and then have users vote on the most useful template sometime around 4.4.2 or 4.4.4 ... this will give users enough time to try out the templates and we will gain more in community involvement. It would not stop the designers from voting on their choice of template, which could still be run in conjunction with the user choice. yes, this is how I see it too. I also worry that we are giving our user base the impression that contests such as these are put on quickly without proper lead time ... I am not sure it helps our brand that is highly recognized and respected. Sometimes, taking a little extra time will help show our user base that we value quality and that our contests are taken seriously. There will be a follow-up for the next versions, so I guess we should consider this contest as a kick-off for the others that will be organized. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, Le 22/12/2014 10:40, Sophie a écrit : We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm *very* reluctant to such a community project: templates very often show their cultural origin. This means that an american template won't fit a French user at all, and vice versa. There are some such templates on the extensions website already. I had written about that problem to the authors, hoping to find a way to make better tools, to no avail yet. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Could the Design team devise a template template that international users could use as a starting point? My 2 cents, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, On 22 décembre 2014 14:15:37 CET, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Le 22/12/2014 10:40, Sophie a écrit : We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm *very* reluctant to such a community project: templates very often show their cultural origin. This means that an american template won't fit a French user at all, and vice versa. There are some such templates True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) on the extensions website already. I had written about that problem to the authors, hoping to find a way to make better tools, to no avail yet. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Could the Design team devise a template template that international users could use as a starting point? What would be the standard for such a template? We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! Best, Charles. My 2 cents, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, Le 22/12/2014 14:31, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : Hi, On 22 décembre 2014 14:15:37 CET, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Le 22/12/2014 10:40, Sophie a écrit : We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm *very* reluctant to such a community project: templates very often show their cultural origin. This means that an american template won't fit a French user at all, and vice versa. There are some such templates True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. on the extensions website already. I had written about that problem to the authors, hoping to find a way to make better tools, to no avail yet. well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Could the Design team devise a template template that international users could use as a starting point? What would be the standard for such a template? We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! +1 Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Charles all, Le 22/12/2014 14:31, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) uh ? What would be the standard for such a template? Of course I haven't got the answer 'cause I think that contest thing to be a false good idea. Besides, I'm not part of the people proposing the contest, am I? We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Launching the contest *is* creating difficulties. Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! Leading where? (asking is answering) Anyway, I'll stop ranting as this is not appreciated 'round here ;-) All the best, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. This is a very tough question, yes. Second, templates *need* to be documented either with included text or a secondary user manual (I think this should be request, opposite to the current contest asking for *no text*) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Kevin, Le 22/12/2014 14:46, Kevin Suo a écrit : I think you may be interested in this feature request then: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86483 \o/ -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:08, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. That would be their choice. well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. This is a very tough question, yes. Second, templates *need* to be documented either with included text or a secondary user manual (I think this should be request, opposite to the current contest asking for *no text*) so are you volunteering to write that manual and document the templates or are you only ranting on those who are currently trying and are doing something? Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Le 22.12.2014 15:02, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Charles all, Le 22/12/2014 14:31, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit : True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) uh ? What would be the standard for such a template? Of course I haven't got the answer 'cause I think that contest thing to be a false good idea. Besides, I'm not part of the people proposing the contest, am I? Yes, but as you know in French, criticism is easy, action is more difficult. So I would have guessed you would have come up with an actual proposal. Or maybe it was just a warning that you think that it might lead to problems ? We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Launching the contest *is* creating difficulties. Not doing anything is better? Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! Leading where? (asking is answering) You choose: - To an awful and dark place where templates do not match the various national standards of letters. To a bleak future, where entire information systems will explode when dozens of millions of people will open LibreOffice daily and will shout in horror at the mere sight of non-standardized templates. Outside, in the scarlet light of our dying sun, tumbleweeds of shrubs, dust, and paper sheets roll around deserted streets. Doom has come upon humanity - To an opportunity to attract designers and people who may have never found a way to contribute to LibreOffice; besides the t-shirt, all of these would have their own creations distributed inside a software distributed worldwide. In the mean time, we, the LibreOffice project, take advantage of this much needed and new material to improve our software and the user experience. National and local customizations are welcome if there's a compliance issue within document templated. More seriously: Asking is not always answering. We are a community; and as a community in a Free Software project we can change or customize the outcome of our productions (code, templates, content). If you are so concerned about this i18n probem, then perhaps you could propose and even organize a contest for the fr project? Anyway, I'll stop ranting as this is not appreciated 'round here ;-) What is not appreciated is lack of enthusiasm and constant downing that is usually found on the fr mailing list; what is appreciated and respected are opinions, whatever they might be, and contributions. Best, Charles. All the best, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:13 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:08, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. That would be their choice. I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? Of course text must be translated (if present), but this can be done like GUI labels. If the contest is only for en_US, then most locales won't get any templates at all, which is worse than getting an English template. So better start with the idea that templates will have to be translated. Regards well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. This is a very tough question, yes. Second, templates *need* to be documented either with included text or a secondary user manual (I think this should be request, opposite to the current contest asking for *no text*) so are you volunteering to write that manual and document the templates or are you only ranting on those who are currently trying and are doing something? Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:13 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:08, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. That would be their choice. I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? It depends on the category of templates. For Writer for example, a simple letter presents a lot of differences depending on the country (it's even not language specific). The page format will be different, the date, margins, location of the addresses, ect... Of course text must be translated (if present), but this can be done like GUI labels. If the contest is only for en_US, then most locales won't get any templates at all, which is worse than getting an English template. So better start with the idea that templates will have to be translated. Yes. The time frame for 4.4.0 is too short but we don't want to kill the enthusiasm of the Design team, so let's have the first contest for en_US and the localization team will then work on their internationalization. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:36 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:13 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:08, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. That would be their choice. I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? It depends on the category of templates. For Writer for example, a simple letter presents a lot of differences depending on the country (it's even not language specific). The page format will be different, the date, margins, location of the addresses, ect... Ah, OK. This may need some careful work by localization teams. But for more informal documents, offering a few good-looking templates is not a problem. Of course text must be translated (if present), but this can be done like GUI labels. If the contest is only for en_US, then most locales won't get any templates at all, which is worse than getting an English template. So better start with the idea that templates will have to be translated. Yes. The time frame for 4.4.0 is too short but we don't want to kill the enthusiasm of the Design team, so let's have the first contest for en_US and the localization team will then work on their internationalization. Right. But to motivate people outside of the US, better say loudly that templates will eventually be translated. Regards Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Le 22/12/2014 15:40, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:36 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:27, Milan Bouchet-Valat a écrit : Le lundi 22 décembre 2014 à 15:13 +0100, Sophie a écrit : Hi, Le 22/12/2014 15:08, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Hello Sophie, Le 22/12/2014 14:37, Sophie a écrit : Yes and if you read the announcement or the discussions on the lists, you have noticed that it's a contest for en_US templates only. The risk being that those templates come to non-en_US users. That would be their choice. I don't understand what's so country-specific in a template. AFAIK MS Office does not ship different templates in the US and in Europe. Cannot templates be made mostly country-neutral if contributors are asked to avoid adding too nationally-rooted details? It depends on the category of templates. For Writer for example, a simple letter presents a lot of differences depending on the country (it's even not language specific). The page format will be different, the date, margins, location of the addresses, ect... Ah, OK. This may need some careful work by localization teams. But for more informal documents, offering a few good-looking templates is not a problem. yes, so don't hesitate to submit your template on the dedicated mailing list :) Of course text must be translated (if present), but this can be done like GUI labels. If the contest is only for en_US, then most locales won't get any templates at all, which is worse than getting an English template. So better start with the idea that templates will have to be translated. Yes. The time frame for 4.4.0 is too short but we don't want to kill the enthusiasm of the Design team, so let's have the first contest for en_US and the localization team will then work on their internationalization. Right. But to motivate people outside of the US, better say loudly that templates will eventually be translated. I'm sure that will be said on the next iterations of the contest. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Robinson, Le 22/12/2014 17:03, Robinson Tryon a écrit : On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: True and it is dangerous since it could show some spontaneity and community involvement. We surely do not want that ;-) +1 for community involvement I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Speaking more generally than just this contest, having the Design Team give feedback or help to improve templates would be a great idea! it's currently under their control and yes, it's really great :) ... We all come from different origins so we will all face the same issues and these can be adapted by users or by native lang projects to match their own standard. Let us not create difficulties. Let this be a joyful moment for community participation! Making it easier for community members to adapt templates (and extensions) to their own native lang sounds like a positive contribution. What's the current workflow for localization? Currently template are on the Templates site. There is no workflow about their internationalisation. But after this contest, to populate the file in LibreOffice we will need to set one, this was discussed on other lists. Sophie writes: well they are under a open source license, so anybody is invited to do the work or enhance what already exists. Perhaps we can do more to make sure that work gets re-integrated back into the original version, or is made available as a derivative. Keeping a copy of each template in version control could reduce the barriers to participation. It would make it easier for contributors to fix typos, track down bugs, or make even bigger changes. What we need is a kind of official set that we can work in all languages with en_US as the basis to make sure that changes go in l10n as well. But I think that this is what Kendy has in mind. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
I think you may be interested in this feature request then: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86483 于 2014年12月22日 GMT+08:00PM9:15:37, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net 写到: Hi, Le 22/12/2014 10:40, Sophie a écrit : We often worry about lack of community involvement, but, when there is a wonderful occasion where community involvement with such a contest where there is a low-entry level of understanding of LibreOffice and where template usage is directed towards our users, we do not even provide users the chance to vote on a template contest ... surely a users idea of what a good and purposeful template would be different from a designer's perspective. I'm *very* reluctant to such a community project: templates very often show their cultural origin. This means that an american template won't fit a French user at all, and vice versa. There are some such templates on the extensions website already. I had written about that problem to the authors, hoping to find a way to make better tools, to no avail yet. I'm not sure users are aware of all the needed things to have a reliable template and one that could be localized too, so the best way would be that the design team does a pre selection and let the users vote only on the templates that complies. Could the Design team devise a template template that international users could use as a starting point? My 2 cents, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker - Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Charles, Charles-H. Schulz píše v Ne 14. 12. 2014 v 13:23 +0100: 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). I had thought we would make it really inclusive (i.e. inviting everyone to vote); is it not desirable? It is way to easy to bikeshed over this or that :-) - so I want only the people active (ie. really doing) in the Design team to make the decision; it is the Design team who will be maintaining them in the long term in the end anyway. Having said that - if anybody from the Design team cannot do it to the meeting (like K-J, for example), it is perfectly all right to express his/her opinions in the list [veto on some of the template(s)], and it will be definitely taken into consideration at the hangout. There will be time for that - deadline will be on Monday, the hangouts take place on Wednesdays. The others can of course express their opinion too, I am open to discussions; but the decision should be on the Design team from the above mentioned reasons (bikeshed potential, long-term support). Besides my comment above, all agreed from my side. Thanks for your support! - hope the above is acceptable for you. All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi K-J, K-J LibreOffice píše v Ne 14. 12. 2014 v 18:57 +0100: 2) what categories do we define Authors of the templates propose the category, we'll then define the final categories according to the templates that arrive :-) Should we define some rules? E.g. branding or so? Specified rules should be adhered to. So every template which brokes the rules should not be voted on. Nope - we want to unleash the creativity :-) - and let's see what do we get... 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). I had thought we would make it really inclusive (i.e. inviting everyone to vote); is it not desirable? I don't think that it is a good and community friendly choice to vote at one of the weekly hangouts. I'm e.g. not able to attend. Please see my other mail (to Charles) for explanation. This is not to exclude anybody, but to be able to decide in the short time we have. The last big vote (4.0 branding) was (on my opinion) a real desaster: A hurry-up voting and discussing at Google+, stopped by BoD, after that voted at google docs (). The winning object broke the defined and branding rules (which is up to now not solved in a good way). I believe an overall branding is something completely different than this - for the default branding, a larger consensus is necessary, and needs the marketing people involved, indeed. But there will be more templates (we are not talking about the default template you get when you start Writer) that you can choose from, so the only criteria is that they are not offensive, and they are not utterly ugly (and we can increasingly improve them too). 4) deadline and scheduling. Needs to happen in time for RC2 (beginning of January), so that there is still chance to do changes for RC3. Of course, if any good templates arrive later, they'll be still appreciated, and can be included in later versions (4.4.x). I don't think that we have to hurry so. We shouldn't do it. So far the problem that we have no templates included was completely hidden by the terrible user experience to start document with a template; so there were little complaining about the lack of the templates. This is not the case any more with the new 4.4 feature that was a result of GSoC - now we have the [Templates] button right in the start center, and showing an empty list is much worse than showing 2-3 templates there; and yes, I do hope that we'll get at least 2-3 good templates even on the short notice :-) Definitely we can (and should!) do more for 4.4.1 - but we should at least attempt to get as much as possible already for 4.4.0. Hope this makes some sense - and as explained in the other mail, don't worry, your voice will be heard :-) Also I hope that you'll find some time to design a template or two too, would be awesome to have something from you. All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Will this involve new templates for Impress? Because Impress is severely lacking in the template department... Maybe we could send the call in e-mails to certain design groups involved with Linux to come with new templates (Numix, Mokka, Elementary, VDG...). On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com wrote: Hi K-J, K-J LibreOffice píše v Ne 14. 12. 2014 v 18:57 +0100: 2) what categories do we define Authors of the templates propose the category, we'll then define the final categories according to the templates that arrive :-) Should we define some rules? E.g. branding or so? Specified rules should be adhered to. So every template which brokes the rules should not be voted on. Nope - we want to unleash the creativity :-) - and let's see what do we get... 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). I had thought we would make it really inclusive (i.e. inviting everyone to vote); is it not desirable? I don't think that it is a good and community friendly choice to vote at one of the weekly hangouts. I'm e.g. not able to attend. Please see my other mail (to Charles) for explanation. This is not to exclude anybody, but to be able to decide in the short time we have. The last big vote (4.0 branding) was (on my opinion) a real desaster: A hurry-up voting and discussing at Google+, stopped by BoD, after that voted at google docs (). The winning object broke the defined and branding rules (which is up to now not solved in a good way). I believe an overall branding is something completely different than this - for the default branding, a larger consensus is necessary, and needs the marketing people involved, indeed. But there will be more templates (we are not talking about the default template you get when you start Writer) that you can choose from, so the only criteria is that they are not offensive, and they are not utterly ugly (and we can increasingly improve them too). 4) deadline and scheduling. Needs to happen in time for RC2 (beginning of January), so that there is still chance to do changes for RC3. Of course, if any good templates arrive later, they'll be still appreciated, and can be included in later versions (4.4.x). I don't think that we have to hurry so. We shouldn't do it. So far the problem that we have no templates included was completely hidden by the terrible user experience to start document with a template; so there were little complaining about the lack of the templates. This is not the case any more with the new 4.4 feature that was a result of GSoC - now we have the [Templates] button right in the start center, and showing an empty list is much worse than showing 2-3 templates there; and yes, I do hope that we'll get at least 2-3 good templates even on the short notice :-) Definitely we can (and should!) do more for 4.4.1 - but we should at least attempt to get as much as possible already for 4.4.0. Hope this makes some sense - and as explained in the other mail, don't worry, your voice will be heard :-) Also I hope that you'll find some time to design a template or two too, would be awesome to have something from you. All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Pedro, Pedro Rosmaninho píše v Po 15. 12. 2014 v 11:47 +: Will this involve new templates for Impress? Because Impress is severely lacking in the template department... At the moment, I am most concerned about the Writer templates - because we have none :-) But of course, if we get some Calc or Impress templates too, that will be awesome. Maybe we could send the call in e-mails to certain design groups involved with Linux to come with new templates (Numix, Mokka, Elementary, VDG...). Sure, great idea! Please do you have contacts to these groups? I guess better to talk to some people there first before we 'spam' them? All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Heiko Tietze is also active in the VDG group so I guess he can contact them. And in the VDG community there are people involved with Nitrux. As for getting into contact with them directly I would just contact them by G+ or something, I don't have direct contact with any of them personally. Maybe we could make the contest with categories for each module and not only Writer? On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com wrote: Hi Pedro, Pedro Rosmaninho píše v Po 15. 12. 2014 v 11:47 +: Will this involve new templates for Impress? Because Impress is severely lacking in the template department... At the moment, I am most concerned about the Writer templates - because we have none :-) But of course, if we get some Calc or Impress templates too, that will be awesome. Maybe we could send the call in e-mails to certain design groups involved with Linux to come with new templates (Numix, Mokka, Elementary, VDG...). Sure, great idea! Please do you have contacts to these groups? I guess better to talk to some people there first before we 'spam' them? All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Jan, Le Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:40:51 +0100, Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com a écrit : Hi Charles, all, Charles-H. Schulz píše v Čt 11. 12. 2014 v 10:50 +0100: What we must decide is the process itself. Very good questions. Because the time is extremely short for 4.4, we have straightened this up so that we can publish the PR ASAP: 1) how do people register and upload their templates The submission will be trivial - just a mail to this list, we'll collect the templates on a wiki page as they arrive. 2) what categories do we define Authors of the templates propose the category, we'll then define the final categories according to the templates that arrive :-) 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). I had thought we would make it really inclusive (i.e. inviting everyone to vote); is it not desirable? 4) deadline and scheduling. Needs to happen in time for RC2 (beginning of January), so that there is still chance to do changes for RC3. Of course, if any good templates arrive later, they'll be still appreciated, and can be included in later versions (4.4.x). Besides my comment above, all agreed from my side. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-founder, The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Kendy, Charles, Am 14.12.2014 um 13:23 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Hello Jan, Le Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:40:51 +0100, Jan Holesovsky ke...@collabora.com a écrit : Hi Charles, all, Charles-H. Schulz píše v Čt 11. 12. 2014 v 10:50 +0100: What we must decide is the process itself. Very good questions. Because the time is extremely short for 4.4, we have straightened this up so that we can publish the PR ASAP: 1) how do people register and upload their templates The submission will be trivial - just a mail to this list, we'll collect the templates on a wiki page as they arrive. Maybe as a starting point a Whiteboard: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Default_Template 2) what categories do we define Authors of the templates propose the category, we'll then define the final categories according to the templates that arrive :-) Should we define some rules? E.g. branding or so? Specified rules should be adhered to. So every template which brokes the rules should not be voted on. 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). I had thought we would make it really inclusive (i.e. inviting everyone to vote); is it not desirable? I don't think that it is a good and community friendly choice to vote at one of the weekly hangouts. I'm e.g. not able to attend. We should vote on ml as we did many times before. I think a little group of Design and Marketing people should have a veto against a template. This can happen on PM with the rule Jan mentioned: for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion).. If we get too many proposals the Design and Marketing team can make a selection to vote on. The last big vote (4.0 branding) was (on my opinion) a real desaster: A hurry-up voting and discussing at Google+, stopped by BoD, after that voted at google docs (). The winning object broke the defined and branding rules (which is up to now not solved in a good way). 4) deadline and scheduling. Needs to happen in time for RC2 (beginning of January), so that there is still chance to do changes for RC3. Of course, if any good templates arrive later, they'll be still appreciated, and can be included in later versions (4.4.x). I don't think that we have to hurry so. We shouldn't do it. If you start the contest mid/end week 51 (if you have discussed and fixed the rules in that time), promotion should happen in week 51/52 between all the christmas mails and songs and so on. The RC2 is in week 2, the RC3 is two weeks later. For voting you need about one week. There would be no time for discussions, improvements, especially it's holiday time and some people are on vacation starting December 20th. So: Start the contest before christmas with 4 weeks open to get proposals. Promote it before christmas and after holiday (January 5th) again. Deadline: January 18th One week for discussion and opportunities to improve the proposals. Maybe two days for the defined group to veto. Vote (on ml) for one week. So we have a result earliest January 27th and we get in 4.4.1. Just my 2cts. -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hi Charles, all, Charles-H. Schulz píše v Čt 11. 12. 2014 v 10:50 +0100: What we must decide is the process itself. Very good questions. Because the time is extremely short for 4.4, we have straightened this up so that we can publish the PR ASAP: 1) how do people register and upload their templates The submission will be trivial - just a mail to this list, we'll collect the templates on a wiki page as they arrive. 2) what categories do we define Authors of the templates propose the category, we'll then define the final categories according to the templates that arrive :-) 3) who decides/votes The Design team at one of the weekly hangouts. The decision process will be simple - for each template that arrives, either a general consensus on the given template, or it is not included for 4.4.0 (and can be re-evaluated for later inclusion). 4) deadline and scheduling. Needs to happen in time for RC2 (beginning of January), so that there is still chance to do changes for RC3. Of course, if any good templates arrive later, they'll be still appreciated, and can be included in later versions (4.4.x). All the best, Kendy -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest
Hello Jay, Adolfo, all, Indeed, I need to clarify a bit what I wrote yesterday: when I wrote that embedding templates inside LibreOffice or uploading them on the templates site did not make a difference, I meant that to me the workload or a strong opinion about what path is the best is not important *to me*. From a marketing/PR perspective, once you know what path you take for this you just communicate accordingly. There's no real good or bad option. However from the perspective of the design team it does change things a lot. I've read Jay's document, and I suggest we put up a real PR + spread the word on social networks, alongside a dedicated page on our website. You do not need to worry about all this :-) What we must decide is the process itself. 1) how do people register and upload their templates 2) what categories do we define 3) who decides/votes 4) deadline and scheduling. my suggestions: 1) we need to check with the infra team for the registrations. We could have them upload their templates through our Owncloud server or using our wiki(is it a bad idea?) then list the list of submission on the wiki or on our LimeSurvey instance. 2) writer: document templates, forms Calc: calendars, ... Impress: presentation templates anything else 3) I suggest to keep this very simple and informal: anyone can vote but there's an IP check on this. Which means that anyone can vote, you can't vote twice in theory, but the polls are really public and open. 4) we should have this ready for FOSDEM (end of January) What do you think? best, Charles. Le 10.12.2014 18:57, Jay Philips a écrit : Hi Charles and All, Yes we had discussed this same issue at last week's design meeting and decided to go with having the contest and bundling the chosen templates in 4.4 as unfortunately the template website won't fill the newly added template section in the start center. I have begun a write up of what the TDF announcement of the contest would be at the following link, so please do provide comments as well as suggest template categories users should focus on. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WLh_SdpyGVb4n-lzsPJ4XTNNDa0SGwUwo3Onm1HjoK8/edit?usp=sharing Jay On 12/10/2014 03:10 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hello, This is a topic that did come and go, but now that we are lucky to have a revamped design/ux team we should probably put that back on track :-) LibreOffice needs both new and fresh document templates . Whether they are directly embedded and are shipped with LibreOffice or are available on our templates website is not really a topic, but interestingly enough the work done on the Templates website prompts us to get new document templates. Jay suggested a month ago that we launch a contest and we certainly can do that over our social networks. But we need to be sure materials can be uploaded and work on the selection process (I would go for a popular vote). What do others think? Best, Charles. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
