Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
Hello Onyeibo, thanks for your prompt response. I have enjoyed reading on the mail list about the design process for the official CD cover artwork while comparing and contrasting the design considerations and target audience of this project. Naturally, Official means priority. There is no need for a comparison. Both are essential and cover different scopes. I understand the DIY version should serve in the absence of the official version -- something cheap to keep the Fedora spirit flowing. Please forgive me however I fail to grasp how glue and scissors are inevitable. I was referring to our present solution. We can change that. If a complex assembly and other supplies were required this would greatly diminish the usefulness of this sleeve for end users. I hope that a simple and effective DIY sleeve can be printed anywhere and folded at a moment's notice. Standard paper is what most people have in their printers and that's the target for a DIY sleeve. Two examples are provided that require no glue and scissors and you have provided alternative folding instructions for one of them which I appreciate. As for background colors and large solid colored areas, these generally take up quite a bit of ink which is a legitimate concern for some people, especially users at home that resent the high cost of ink jet refill cartridges. I like the text you have provided which covers the support issues quite well, directing people to existing resources. Ok. I'll revisit the design and strip it of fills and gradients. I'd suggest a Grayscale (monochrome) version that can come off a Laserjet. That shouldn't raise dampening concerns and maintenance costs. Thank you for the set of alternative folding instructions. I'll try out this Fujimoto 5-part approximation trial and error method to see if it works better for me. I know from experience that using the CD itself as a guide is quite fast, easy and is exactly the right width. I encourage you to try both of these methods sometime. Both of the instructions we provided depend on a fold for the pocket that is not intuitive the first time through but is very easy with a little practice. I don't see the need to create new instructions when we have two perfectly good sets of instructions already though something customized would be nice if time allows. I meant embedding notes like crease here or fold dots within the design not as a page full of grammar illustrations. I think we're saying the same thing in different ways ... correct me if I'm wrong. I am not insisting on status-quo ... I buy the origami concept and will adapt the design to it using the instructions on the other website I provided (i.e. for dotted fold marks). I was suggesting that we leave the present folding concept as an alternative for those who might prefer that, especially on glossy cardboard. Its ok to use the CD as a guide ... but remember we're providing a design that should appear somewhere after all folds are done. We need to establish dimensions for consistency. I look forward to continuing to work on this. I appreciate the feedback so far and I think the result will be an excellent alternative for giving Fedora to others. One reason we all might make use of this sleeve would be to give out Fedora before manufactured CDs are available. That's what I thought. We have to agree on end user as graphic impressions have a way of selling the product. The origami site addressed personal concerns (those who want to carry their CDs with them). Ours appear to have a different target -- we're giving the product to a third party, on a temporary jacket (which should be compelling as well or we're communicating mediocrity without knowing it). I also considered the context of the Sleeve. It carries the Community Thing with it ... you know, this one comes to you from your local community. That informs the recipient that a group of Fedora Users came together to provide his/her copy. All these affect the psychology of the design. I appreciate the work you have done so far as they are an excellent basis for all derived designs. Regards, Grant Bowman https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors Regards too ...(hehehe), Onyeibo -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
Hello Onyeibo, thanks for your prompt response. I have enjoyed reading on the mail list about the design process for the official CD cover artwork while comparing and contrasting the design considerations and target audience of this project. Naturally, Official means priority. There is no need for a comparison. Both are essential and cover different scopes. I understand the DIY version should serve in the absence of the official version -- something cheap to keep the Fedora spirit flowing. Please forgive me however I fail to grasp how glue and scissors are inevitable. I was referring to our present solution. We can change that. If a complex assembly and other supplies were required this would greatly diminish the usefulness of this sleeve for end users. I hope that a simple and effective DIY sleeve can be printed anywhere and folded at a moment's notice. Standard paper is what most people have in their printers and that's the target for a DIY sleeve. Two examples are provided that require no glue and scissors and you have provided alternative folding instructions for one of them which I appreciate. As for background colors and large solid colored areas, these generally take up quite a bit of ink which is a legitimate concern for some people, especially users at home that resent the high cost of ink jet refill cartridges. I like the text you have provided which covers the support issues quite well, directing people to existing resources. Ok. I'll revisit the design and strip it of fills and gradients. I'd suggest a Grayscale (monochrome) version that can come off a Laserjet. That shouldn't raise dampening concerns and maintenance costs. Thank you for the set of alternative folding instructions. I'll try out this Fujimoto 5-part approximation trial and error method to see if it works better for me. I know from experience that using the CD itself as a guide is quite fast, easy and is exactly the right width. I encourage you to try both of these methods sometime. Both of the instructions we provided depend on a fold for the pocket that is not intuitive the first time through but is very easy with a little practice. I don't see the need to create new instructions when we have two perfectly good sets of instructions already though something customized would be nice if time allows. I meant embedding notes like crease here or fold dots within the design not as webpage full of grammar. I think we're saying the same thing in different ways ... correct me if I'm wrong. I am not insisting on status-quo ... I buy the origami concept and will adapt the design to it using the instructions on the other site I provided (i.e. for dotted fold marks). I was suggesting that we leave the present folding concept as an alternative for those who might prefer that, especially on glossy cardboard. Its ok to use the CD as a guide ... but remember we're providing a design that should appear somewhere after all folds are done. We need to establish dimensions for consistency. I look forward to continuing to work on this. I appreciate the feedback so far and I think the result will be an excellent alternative for giving Fedora to others. One reason we all might make use of this sleeve would be to give out Fedora before manufactured CDs are available. That's what I thought. We have to agree on end user as graphic impressions have a way of selling the product. The origami site addressed personal concerns (those who want to carry their CDs with them). Ours appear to have a different target -- we're giving the product to a third party, on a temporary jacket (which should be compelling as well or we're communicating mediocrity without knowing it). I also considered the context of the Sleeve. It carries the Community Thing with it ... you know, this one comes to you from your local community. That informs the recipient that a group of Fedora Users came together to provide his/her copy. All these affect the psychology of the design. I appreciate the work you have done so far as they are an excellent basis for all derived designs. Regards, Grant Bowman https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors Counter Regards ...(hehehe), Onyeibo -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
Dear Grant See comments interspersed with yours: I just emailed logo@ to get a proper SVG logo for using with Scribus. The 1.3.3 version I'm using has trouble with the non-standard SVG that I downloaded from http://fedoradesigns.twohotis.fastmail.fm/ - I think in part because the images are not embedded. The source files would be very helpful. Using Inkscape 0.47 I get the following errors: ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_083418.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_085318.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_085504.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_091443.png I'm sorry you had to go through that process -- my fault. Actually, I received approval and copies of the fedora logos shortly after uploading that version. I've also updated the design to include the approved logos. You will find them here: http://fedoradesigns.twohotis.fastmail.fm/. Let me know if this meets your needs. Onyeibo, have you tried to print out and use your version? I have successfully used many paper sleeves for myself and others. The designed should be easy to create without using any glue, staples, tape, scissors, etc. The folding design shown http://www.athensmusician.net/archive/2005-02-13_oragamicdholder.php is excellent. No, I've not attempted to print-out the design but everything was done with precision and life-size dimensions (trusting that the Inkscape rulers are accurate). Our design (so far) evolved from your initial job description which referenced an Ubuntu DIY sleeve. I only made the fold simpler. The present solution should go well on Cardboard, Photo paper and art paper. Glue and Scissors are inevitable. I followed your link and checked out the origami ... interesting concept. However, I suspect the use of a regular 60-80gms A4 paper there. Those don't always respond well, especially if we want designs that have gradients and fills ... and we're running prints with inkjet printers. I'll try the origami on Cardboard and assess the outcome. One note on this artwork is that the fold and how to open the sleeve is needed as end users can be baffled by the sheer cleverness of the folding design the first time they see it. When I am using the CD as a guide to fold and writing the cover by hand I usually put open here on the lip of the paper where the flap folds into. http://www.tgries.de/origami/CD-A4-Thomas-Hull.pdf provides a better description of the same fold. Sure, we could include some 'mini' fold notes. I will begin work on a new design including all the feedback so far. Having a design that can be used across different versions of Fedora will be helpful for volunteers so that new artwork will not be required for each release, though of course derivatives are possible with each release's artwork. I did not see a clear place to create a wiki page below https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork so I created this page which I hope will be moved to some place more official later. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Grantbow/DiySleeve Wow! I'm not sure that is the right way to go about this. It might be necessary to consult the old-timers on how they published project progress and reports. You might want to consider publishing 1-3 folding alternatives with our final designs ... and leave the choosing to the Users. I look forward to working with you, Grant Bowman https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors You're Welcome -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
Thanks Nicu, I have repeated the design using Inkscape. I tried opening it with Scribus and got undesirable results, so beware. I have uploaded the SVG SVGZ files for contributions. The low-res logos were for reference, they will not display in the uploaded versions (linked). I don't know how long it takes to get a vector version of the logos (in the queue). A sample of my version (jpg) is available for reference. Thanks for the lead on MgOpen, very cool. Open-source really delivers. NEW UPLOADS HERE: http://fedoradesigns.twohotis.fastmail.fm/ Hello Onyeibo Oku, thank you for your contribution! Many thanks for the other suggestions as well. This is a wonderful first project for me to contribute as I think there will be immediate value to end users. Unfortunately my first post http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2009-September/001041.html wasn't complete. I just emailed logo@ to get a proper SVG logo for using with Scribus. The 1.3.3 version I'm using has trouble with the non-standard SVG that I downloaded from http://fedoradesigns.twohotis.fastmail.fm/ - I think in part because the images are not embedded. The source files would be very helpful. Using Inkscape 0.47 I get the following errors: ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_083418.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_085318.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_085504.png ** (inkscape:10108): WARNING **: Unable to open linked file: /home/t2hot/Documents/inkscape_pasted_image_20090922_091443.png nicu wrote: Please also include the source files, so other people in the team can work with them, build on them, make derivatives. And please, have those sources in a format we can use (for example Scribus, not Corel, which seems to be your case). Onyeibo, have you tried to print out and use your version? I have successfully used many paper sleeves for myself and others. The designed should be easy to create without using any glue, staples, tape, scissors, etc. The folding design shown http://www.athensmusician.net/archive/2005-02-13_oragamicdholder.php is excellent. One note on this artwork is that the fold and how to open the sleeve is needed as end users can be baffled by the sheer cleverness of the folding design the first time they see it. When I am using the CD as a guide to fold and writing the cover by hand I usually put open here on the lip of the paper where the flap folds into. I will begin work on a new design including all the feedback so far. Having a design that can be used across different versions of Fedora will be helpful for volunteers so that new artwork will not be required for each release, though of course derivatives are possible with each release's artwork. I did not see a clear place to create a wiki page below https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork so I created this page which I hope will be moved to some place more official later. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Grantbow/DiySleeve I look forward to working with you, Grant Bowman https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
On 09/22/2009 05:54 PM, twoho...@fastmail.fm wrote: I have repeated the design using Inkscape. I tried opening it with Scribus and got undesirable results, so beware. I have uploaded the SVG Yeah, Scribus can be like this when the imported SVG is using some unsupported features like transparent gradients (which is not supported by the pdf standard IIRC) or filters (blur). Scribus is really useful when going for professional printing, as it can prepare print-optimised PDFs, but since we are speaking about do it yourself stuff, I guess we can stay with high-resolution PNGs exported from Inkscape and printed on a common deskjet. SVGZ files for contributions. The low-res logos were for reference, they will not display in the uploaded versions (linked). I don't know how long it takes to get a vector version of the logos (in the queue). A sample of my version (jpg) is available for reference. There is one more hint: I understand you used the logo bitmaps only a reference (BTW, the 4 freedoms is not protected, you can get the source from http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Fedora%20Collateral/Posters/Four%20Foundations%20Posters/Sources/) but when you insert a raster file into a SVG it is usually linked, not embedded. So if you distribute the SVG, when someone will open it with Inkscape he will get a red X and linked image not found. To overcome this use Extensions - Images - Embed images. The file size will grow a lot (embedded files are base64 encoded) but the images will be preserved. Thanks for the lead on MgOpen, very cool. Open-source really delivers. NEW UPLOADS HERE: http://fedoradesigns.twohotis.fastmail.fm/ -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
On 09/21/2009 09:25 AM, Kris Thomsen wrote: Could anybody make a version that is for Fedora 12-only? With Fedora 12 art? :-) The best way is, I think, to make a generic template and switch in the Fedora 12 artwork (or whatever other version) after we have the final artwork in place - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MediaArt -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
Yeah, you're right, Nicu :) // Kris 2009/9/21 Nicu Buculei nicu_fed...@nicubunu.ro On 09/21/2009 09:25 AM, Kris Thomsen wrote: Could anybody make a version that is for Fedora 12-only? With Fedora 12 art? :-) The best way is, I think, to make a generic template and switch in the Fedora 12 artwork (or whatever other version) after we have the final artwork in place - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MediaArt -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
On 09/17/2009 09:50 PM, twoho...@fastmail.fm wrote: I can handle this, Grant. However, providing the text/content will ease the task ... that way, I concentrate on design. I'll post one or two mock-up designs tomorrow for comments. Yikes! Where and how do I send the designs? Are attachments allowed? We have a size limit on attachments, a better idea is to upload them somewhere, for example on your fedorapeople.org account, and post a link. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/ ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Development of DIY Folding Media Sleeve
I can handle this, Grant. However, providing the text/content will ease the task ... that way, I concentrate on design. I'll post one or two mock-up designs tomorrow for comments. Yikes! Where and how do I send the designs? Are attachments allowed? -- Oku, Onyeibo https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Twohot https://twohotonline.ftml.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
