Re: libwnck: Offering helpG
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 08:34:27PM +0200, Marcus Carlson wrote: > I've been browsing around the bugs of libwnck, also submitted a few > patches [1], and what I can see it don't get a lot of attention. So I > would like to help out (but with mentoring). Vincent Untz (vu...@gnome.org) is supposed to look after libwnck. I'm sure he'll appreciate someone looking after this (as in: reviewing all bugs + committing). > A few questions; what are the future plans for libwnck except for [2] > (that don't seem to be updated in a while)? Could someone help with > mentoring (suggestion what bugs to fix, review patches etc)? -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: (Partial) GNOME 3 status update
Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 12:29, Felix Riemann wrote: Regarding the non-default / deprecated widgets I'll take it like Thomas Andersen in comment 9 in above bug: it makes no sense fixing them. * gst-mixer doesn't need any fixing and works with deprecated symbols disabled already. (Note, this seems to be used at least in Gentoo when building your system without PA) Why don't we remove gst-mixer, vu-meter, gnome-cd and cddb-slave2 completely from gnome media 2.27. People that want to keep on building them can use the 2.26 branch Solaris continues to use gst-mixer since Solaris does not yet provide PulseAudio. PulseAudio doesn't provide as much value on Solaris since OSSv4 provides mixing functionalities directly in the OSS layer. Providing an alternative GStreamer-based mixer program still has value, I think. Sun would appreciate if gst-mixer could stay in gnome-media. Since it doesn't need any fixing and works with deprecated symbols disabled already, I don't think there is any reason to remove it from that standpoint. I don't think there is an issue with removing the other programs, though. Brian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: (Partial) GNOME 3 status update
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Brian Cameron wrote: > Solaris continues to use gst-mixer since Solaris does not yet provide > PulseAudio. PulseAudio doesn't provide as much value on Solaris since > OSSv4 provides mixing functionalities directly in the OSS layer. Would introducing PA have any downsides? Having a common abstraction layer for sound would likely make it easier to develop portable apps. -- Patryk Zawadzki ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: (Partial) GNOME 3 status update
Patryk: On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Brian Cameron wrote: Solaris continues to use gst-mixer since Solaris does not yet provide PulseAudio. PulseAudio doesn't provide as much value on Solaris since OSSv4 provides mixing functionalities directly in the OSS layer. Would introducing PA have any downsides? Having a common abstraction layer for sound would likely make it easier to develop portable apps. There would be some advantages for using PulseAudio, yes. Positional sounds could be an interesting feature, for example. This was discussed before. Refer: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00208.html However, many of the additional benefits (e.g. GlitchFree) requires support in the drivers, which currently does not exist on Solaris. It would be a significant effort to add such features, and not currently in the plans. However, this could perhaps change sometime in the future and make PulseAudio more attractive on Solaris. Also, for PulseAudio to work properly, you need to redirect all audio applications to use it. On Solaris, this would be a non-trivial effort since we need to support several applications that aren't designed to use PulseAudio currently (such as Real Player, Flash, etc.). In short, it would be a fair bit of work to integrate PulseAudio, and the benefits do not seem worth the effort at the moment. Brian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
dependable libwnck
Hi folks, I'm developing an application which current has 'libwnck' as the only external dependency which is not part of the Gnome dependable dependencies as listed on: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies I use it to generate an audit trail of which window, windowname and workspace has been used. I use dbus to audit screensaver events. While I find libwnck perfect for my appliation I appreciate that adding Gnome dependencies is a task which is not embarked on lightly... so, can someone suggest an alternative to libwnck for my purposes? many thanks, Richard ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: dependable libwnck
Richard Henwood wrote: > I'm developing an application which current has 'libwnck' as the > only external dependency which is not part of the Gnome dependable > dependencies as listed on: > > http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies libwnck is part of the official GNOME modules, as such it is not an external dependency; there's no problem using it. see http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/Desktop Frederic ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: dependable libwnck
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 08:41:06AM +, Richard Henwood wrote: > I'm developing an application which current has 'libwnck' as the only > external dependency which is not part of the Gnome dependable > dependencies as listed on: > > http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies It is part of http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/Desktop Desktop set, Platform has certain guarantees. For external dependencies we have less influence. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
libwnck
Hi Folks, I'm writing an application which audits window, window name, workspace and screensaver usage. I use dbus for the screensaver and libwnck for the rest. This all works very well for me. According to: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies libwnck is not a dependable Gnome dependency. I appreciate that adding dependencies into Gnome is not taken lightly. From my perspective I should first look for an alternative which is already included: So, can anyone suggest an alternative to libwnck for my needs? best regards, Richard ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: (Partial) GNOME 3 status update
On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 20:02 +0200, Cosimo Cecchi wrote: > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 19:49 +0200, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: > > > Why don't we remove gst-mixer, vu-meter, gnome-cd and cddb-slave2 > > completely from gnome media 2.27. People that want to keep on building > > them can use the 2.26 branch > > Not sure if somebody still uses gst-mixer (at least Fedora is using > gnome-volume-control instead of it) but the README here [1] says at > least the other three applications are disabled from the default build > anyway, and I agree with you it's not worth the effort to patch them to > use up-to-date platform technologies. > I use it because of the simplest ever use case not yet covered by PA: - PCM volume at 100% -> jerky sound PA assumes that I have PCM at 100% and I only need to adjust Master, this is broken at least in my card (intel8x0) because if I were to put PCM at 100% I would get quite jerky sound (imagine a batteries fm radio). Right now PA only allows me to adjust Master, which is quite useless for me. So what I do is having Master at 100% and PCM around 70%, if laptop speaker volume (hw control) is not strong enough I go to gst-mixer and adjust PCM up a little bit, giving away quality for some loudness. Not having gst-mixer would mean either having PCM at 100% all the time and getting jerky sound or having to go console or use some ugly thing like gnome-alsamixer. If it's not hurting anyone, please keep gst-mixer in the package. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: dependable libwnck
On 07/15/2009 04:41 AM, Richard Henwood wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm developing an application which current has 'libwnck' as the only > external dependency which is not part of the Gnome dependable dependencies as > listed on: > > http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies As others have pointed out, it is part of the Desktop release set. You may be concerned/confused by the required #define WNCK_I_KNOW_THIS_IS_UNSTABLE Basically this means "we reserve the right to change the API between releases if it's necessary for some other GNOME component". From the point of view of someone trying to use libwnck as a dependency, that means that if you write your app against libwnck 2.26, you can't necessary assume it will still compile with libwnck 2.28, so basically you have to commit to putting out new releases of your program in sync with the GNOME release cycle. I haven't looked at libwnck in a while, but if you look through the git history and it turns out that people haven't needed to break the API very much in recent years, then you might be able to convince the maintainers to declare its API stable so that you can more easily depend on it from outside GNOME. -- Dan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: (Partial) GNOME 3 status update
Hi On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote: > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 20:02 +0200, Cosimo Cecchi wrote: >> On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 19:49 +0200, Jaap A. Haitsma wrote: >> >> > Why don't we remove gst-mixer, vu-meter, gnome-cd and cddb-slave2 >> > completely from gnome media 2.27. People that want to keep on building >> > them can use the 2.26 branch >> >> Not sure if somebody still uses gst-mixer (at least Fedora is using >> gnome-volume-control instead of it) but the README here [1] says at >> least the other three applications are disabled from the default build >> anyway, and I agree with you it's not worth the effort to patch them to >> use up-to-date platform technologies. >> > > I use it because of the simplest ever use case not yet covered by PA: > - PCM volume at 100% -> jerky sound > > PA assumes that I have PCM at 100% and I only need to adjust Master, > this is broken at least in my card (intel8x0) because if I were to put > PCM at 100% I would get quite jerky sound (imagine a batteries fm > radio). Right now PA only allows me to adjust Master, which is quite > useless for me. > Give 0.9.16-test2 a try, it deals with the different mixer Master/PCM simultaneously, and it's fantastic, seriously. > So what I do is having Master at 100% and PCM around 70%, if laptop > speaker volume (hw control) is not strong enough I go to gst-mixer and > adjust PCM up a little bit, giving away quality for some loudness. > > Not having gst-mixer would mean either having PCM at 100% all the time > and getting jerky sound or having to go console or use some ugly thing > like gnome-alsamixer. If it's not hurting anyone, please keep gst-mixer > in the package. > For GNOME 3, and even before, this should be solved. There will be no good reason, I hope, to keep gst-mixer. That's why it could be moved to a different project. Especially if the GStreamer GstMixer is deprecated. regards, -- Marc-André Lureau ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: libwnck: Offering help
Hi, Le mardi 14 juillet 2009, à 20:34 +0200, Marcus Carlson a écrit : > Hi maintainers of libwnck (and gnome-panel)! > > I've been browsing around the bugs of libwnck, also submitted a few > patches [1], and what I can see it don't get a lot of attention. So I > would like to help out (but with mentoring). > A few questions; what are the future plans for libwnck except for [2] > (that don't seem to be updated in a while)? Could someone help with > mentoring (suggestion what bugs to fix, review patches etc)? Thanks for the patch -- didn't have time to look at them since I was at GUADEC and I just came back. Help is certainly welcome, so feel free to just ping me if you need mentoring. All in all, though, libwnck is in a relatively good state. There are sure things that needs fixing or changes I'd like to see, but it's working quite well. FWIW, long-term plans are: + reworking the workspace-related API so that it transparently works with viewport and not just virtual desktops. (this will break the API/ABI) + hopefully add a good-enough vertical mode for the window list + review the API/ABI to make sure we're happy with it There are also various tiny features tracked in bugzilla that can be of interest. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: dependable libwnck
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Frederic Peters wrote: > Richard Henwood wrote: > >> I'm developing an application which current has 'libwnck' as the >> only external dependency which is not part of the Gnome dependable >> dependencies as listed on: >> >> http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies > > libwnck is part of the official GNOME modules, as such it is not an > external dependency; there's no problem using it. There is no problem using it as far as dependencies go, but of course, it is not meant as a general application-use library. Its use should be restricted to wms and 'wm appendages' such as pagers, etc. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: libwnck
В Срд, 15/07/2009 в 11:35 +, Richard Henwood пишет: > Hi Folks, > > I'm writing an application which audits window, window name, workspace and > screensaver usage. I use dbus for the screensaver and libwnck for the rest. > This all works very well for me. > > According to: > http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ExternalDependencies > libwnck is not a dependable Gnome dependency. > > I appreciate that adding dependencies into Gnome is not taken lightly. > From my perspective I should first look for an alternative which is > already included: > > So, can anyone suggest an alternative to libwnck for my needs? libwnck is a part of GNOME Desktop, it's not an external dependency :) -- Alexey "Ktirf" Rusakov GNOME Project ALT Linux Team signature.asc Description: Эта часть сообщения подписана цифровой подписью ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: dependable libwnck
Thanks all for the detailed responses. Apologies for the double positing (I'll be more patient in future!). I'll keep an eye on the libwnck API and continue to work on my application. r, ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Mutter with proprietary OpenGL/ES library ??
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > Matteo Settenvini wrote: > > Unless you are a lawyer, shouldn't you qualify that with "IANAL"? By who > is the exception "thought just to mean"? Sorry, didn't want to sound too harsh or imperative. > > The exception was initially added to allow GNU applications to run on > proprietary Unix systems, with proprietary libc and system libraries. > Since OpenGL-ES is typically included with the system in embedded > environments which support it as part of the standard system, it seems > to me like the exception applies. But IANAL. IANAL too, but I'm not sure it fits. It's questionable if it is a system component you can't live without, like glibc. However, that's just my opinion. I apologize, -- Matteo Settenvini FSF Associated Member Email : mat...@member.fsf.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Mutter with proprietary OpenGL/ES library ??
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Matteo Settenvini wrote: > IANAL too, but I'm not sure it fits. It's questionable if it is a > system component you can't live without, like glibc. > However, that's just my opinion. Well you can live without glibc, use dietlibc for example :) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Mutter with proprietary OpenGL/ES library ??
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:41:21 +0200 Pascal Terjan wrote: > On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Matteo Settenvini > wrote: > > IANAL too, but I'm not sure it fits. It's questionable if it is a > > system component you can't live without, like glibc. > > However, that's just my opinion. > > Well you can live without glibc, use dietlibc for example :) System component may not help you: the GPL purposefully says "**unless that component itself accompanies the executable.**" so if you are trying to ship a device for example containing all the bits it won't help you. More fundamentally GPL code is code that has been provided as part of a community to be shared and used to build other code that will be shared likewise. Trying to find ways around the licence is just plain unethical, and rude to those who contributed the stuff. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
