Re: A little experiment: GNOME on wayland-only?
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 14:53, Javier Jardón wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 03:18, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > > On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:23 pm, Carlos Garnacho > > wrote: > > > If you still want to preserve X11 support, these modules do need to > > > keep linking to X11 components: > > > > So our regular build has to continue to depend on X11 indefinitely, > > because we want to build flatpaks that work under X11. And distros > > certainly do as well, because they need to support X applications > > indefinitely. But I don't think our VM images necessarily need to > > support X applications. I suppose Javier's experiment is to see if we > > can get VM images working nicely without any X stuff at all. In this > > scenario, preserving X11 support is not needed. > > That was, indeed, my intention; a GNOME VM only with wayland (or as > little as X as possible) > > > > Beyond that, AFAICT if other regular GNOME session services/apps > > > indirectly rely on X11 at build/runtime, it's an oversight. > Thanks everyone for the help reviewing patches; still quite a lot of work to > do! Hi, Some months have passed, and we have some progress on this. Several patches have been merged and now several modules doesn't hard depend on X11 anymore (like gedit or gnome-screenshot) The current TODO list is as follows: - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/-/issues/78 - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gcr/issues/11 - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/issues/306 - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-color-manager/-/issues/11 - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/issues/131 - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/issues/56 See [1] for more up-to-date info and in case you want to help with the effort Cheers, Javier [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/issues/226 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: A little experiment: GNOME on wayland-only?
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 03:18, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:23 pm, Carlos Garnacho > wrote: > > If you still want to preserve X11 support, these modules do need to > > keep linking to X11 components: > > So our regular build has to continue to depend on X11 indefinitely, > because we want to build flatpaks that work under X11. And distros > certainly do as well, because they need to support X applications > indefinitely. But I don't think our VM images necessarily need to > support X applications. I suppose Javier's experiment is to see if we > can get VM images working nicely without any X stuff at all. In this > scenario, preserving X11 support is not needed. That was, indeed, my intention; a GNOME VM only with wayland (or as little as X as possible) > > Beyond that, AFAICT if other regular GNOME session services/apps > > indirectly rely on X11 at build/runtime, it's an oversight. Well, as you can see at [1] there is a lot of oversights :) (if you see the branch as well I have to disable some apps, like gedit, that hard depend on X11 at the moment) > Well there is libgnomekbd. That seems like the main issue currently, as > it's required for core desktop functionality but still doesn't work > under Wayland. (It only works currently because it sets > GDK_BACKEND=x11.) I think more important is gcr, as a lot stuff depend on it Thanks everyone for the help reviewing patches; still quite a lot of work to do! Cheers, Javier [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/issues/226 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: A little experiment: GNOME on wayland-only?
On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 7:19 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:23 pm, Carlos Garnacho > wrote: > > Beyond that, AFAICT if other regular GNOME session services/apps > > indirectly rely on X11 at build/runtime, it's an oversight. > > Well there is libgnomekbd. That seems like the main issue currently, as > it's required for core desktop functionality It depends. If the goal is to not use X11 at runtime, then the tool provided by libgnomekbd is indeed one of the outstanding issues. But if the goal is a session with no X11 support at all, then two non-functional menu items in gnome-control-center/shell look tame compared to mutter's build dependencies IMHO :-) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: A little experiment: GNOME on wayland-only?
On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:23 pm, Carlos Garnacho wrote: If you still want to preserve X11 support, these modules do need to keep linking to X11 components: So our regular build has to continue to depend on X11 indefinitely, because we want to build flatpaks that work under X11. And distros certainly do as well, because they need to support X applications indefinitely. But I don't think our VM images necessarily need to support X applications. I suppose Javier's experiment is to see if we can get VM images working nicely without any X stuff at all. In this scenario, preserving X11 support is not needed. Beyond that, AFAICT if other regular GNOME session services/apps indirectly rely on X11 at build/runtime, it's an oversight. Well there is libgnomekbd. That seems like the main issue currently, as it's required for core desktop functionality but still doesn't work under Wayland. (It only works currently because it sets GDK_BACKEND=x11.) Michael ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: A little experiment: GNOME on wayland-only?
Hi!, On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 2:14 PM Javier Jardón wrote: > Hi, > > This weekend I was curios about how difficult would be to have GNOME > in a wayland-only system > > Thanks to building GNOME in a sandbox (thanks to buildstream and > bwrap) and also thanks on using freedesktop-sdk as a base we can > easily control the whole stack, so I started to experiment [1] > > Not sure how far we can go, but at least I'm discovering bugs and > submitting some patches on the way (some of them are already > accepted!) > If you still want to preserve X11 support, these modules do need to keep linking to X11 components: - mutter, so it can spawn Xwayland and serve as a X11 WM - gnome-settings-daemon, as gsd-xsettings implements the Xsettings manager, still necessary for X11 clients. - gtk, as the X11 backend is used by both mutter and gsd-xsettings within a wayland session And if you look into misc. components: - IBus, as it has a XIM implementation relevant to X11 clients - Pulseaudio, to make ssh -X clients' sound work seamlessly I do know that from the gnome-shell perspective, everything is paved so that gdm may use --no-x11, but there's other aspects to it (eg. XDMCP) I'm not sure can be simply thrown away, or integrated with Xwayland-on-demand. Beyond that, AFAICT if other regular GNOME session services/apps indirectly rely on X11 at build/runtime, it's an oversight. There's been some work lately to have those misc components autostarted transparently in a better manner for X11 clients, see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/945 and the other related MRs. After that there's IMHO little reason to have xwayland-on-demand turned off by default :). > At some point I would like to generate a parallel pipeline in > gnome-build-meta so at least we do not regress on wayland-only support > (and ideally we can create a parallel GNOME VM without X at all, who > knowns!) > If you want to go that far, there's no support in g-s-d/mutter to build without X11, should be reasonably easy for g-s-d, but it's still likely to cause to some #ifdef proliferation in mutter. Cheers, Carlos > > I'm keeping the progress here: [1] if someone wants to keep track > > Cheers, > Javier > > [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/issues/226 > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
