Re: What is your answer to solve the top inhibitor for the Linux desktop adoption? (was Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email)
Dan Kegel wrote: Finally, and this is something not discussed at the meeting, I'm walking through lists of successful small windows ISVs (e.g. http://www.microisv.com/archives/category/microisv-profile), testing their apps under Wine, reporting the wine bugs I find, and working to get the bugs resolved. ... Sorry if this sounds like yet another promotion but this is a perfect sample where the use of wxWidgets/wyoGuide would be most profitable for _all_ of us. These small Windows ISVs might not have the money or are willing to pay for QT, so wxWidgets is a cheap alternative. But if they use wxWidgets instead of MFC they can develop as if nothing has changed and produce Windows applications as before. It's not that difficult to switch from MFC to wxWidgets, they are quite similar, something which usually is considered a drawback from the Linux side. Anyway if these ISV use wxWidgets and also keep an eye on wyoGuide, which should not cost more that 1% of their overall work, they get a Linux port, a Mac port, etc for free. Wine is one possible solution for these ISVs but it's a tedious work with mixed success. Most of them think, bring me first some Linux customers and I'll see what I can do. I'm quite sure if any of these little ISVs could be persuaded to switch to wxWidgets/wyoGuide, it would be 10 times more effective for the Linux community. This is in no way advertisement for wxWidgets or wyoGuide, it's the simple truth: For these Windows ISVs this is the best solution to get cross-platform development. O. Wyss -- Application guidelines: http://wyoguide.sf.net/ ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
It isn't the client side. It is the server side. 1) Good sync with handheld devices. Phone, Blackbeary (sp?) and Plam or pocket PC This is client side. Let's give some love to OpenSync. The idea is fundamentally good. Shall we integrate PDA-like device syncronization into the desktop architecture ? I think so. Apple's idea with iSync is far from being stupid. And the current situation, even on Windows is far from ideal. Hub ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
RE: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
The server part of the Microsoft solution really is what is creating the lock-in. Providing a cross-platform choice that works with the existing infrastructure is an easier battle to fight than getting an enterprise to switch to a new server. ...and as long as Exchange remains the enterprise server of choice, Outlook will remain the client of choice. The trick then becomes to create demand for that server-end app by creating a client that supports compelling additional features without crippling the user for not having the server end of the solution. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy D. Witham Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:58 PM To: Mike Shaver Cc: desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org Subject: Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 16:31 -0500, Mike Shaver wrote: On 21-Dec-05, at 4:19 PM, Otto Wyss wrote: From the Linux desktop survey the most wanted application is an Emailer. So let’s get this problem solved, a cross-platform Emailer which is good enough to replace Outlook as the default Emailer for the masses. Yeah, let's get that problem solved! Why didn't anyone think of that before? =) I don't know from wyoGuide, or why it's a requirement (or why POP3 needs to be in a separate library (or, TBH, why there are implementation requirements at all, at this point)) but your description is not very far from either Thunderbird or post-Windows- port Evolution, as I read it. (Maybe Kmail, I dunno anything about it.) The Linux desktop survey didn't make it clear to me what specifically was wrong with the current offerings in terms of email, though I'll confess that I saw it was about enterprise deployment and started skimming. Clearly (?) there is some critical failing in the current Evo/Tbird/Kmail offerings, but I don't think it's anything on your current list, because that stuff is pretty much covered. Anyone know more? It isn't the client side. It is the server side. 1) Good sync with handheld devices. Phone, Blackbeary (sp?) and Plam or pocket PC 2) Group calendaring including meeting scheduling. i..e. I want to check if Tom, Bill, Linus and Buddy the wonder dog are available at 10:00 PM. This includes a laptop resyncing when it gets back to a connected state and the last know schedule being available on a server. 3) Proxies for executives. i.e. Setup an admin to be able to respond to the executive's mail so that it appears to be coming from the executive so the lower folks don't know that the executive doesn't read most of their own mail. P.S. Open source because they don't want to be locked in like what happened with their last supplier of group mail/calendaring. This seems to be the problem as folks keep doing new clients when the issues is the server side stuff. Tim Mike ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects -- Timothy D. Witham - Chief Technology Officer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Open Source Development Lab Inc - A non-profit corporation 12725 SW Millikan Way - Suite 400 - Beaverton OR, 97005 (503)-906-1911 (office)(503)-702-2871 (cell) (503)-626-2436 (fax) ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
On 21-Dec-05, at 5:55 PM, Miller, Marc wrote: The trick then becomes to create demand for that server-end app by creating a client that supports compelling additional features without crippling the user for not having the server end of the solution. Do we need to do that for the Linux desktop to succeed? Mike ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
I'd like to declare shenanigans on this topic. IMHO email applications are somewhat beyond the scope of this list... On 12/21/05, Mike Shaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 21-Dec-05, at 5:55 PM, Miller, Marc wrote: The trick then becomes to create demand for that server-end app by creating a client that supports compelling additional features without crippling the user for not having the server end of the solution. Do we need to do that for the Linux desktop to succeed? Mike ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects -- Wine for Windows ISVs: http://kegel.com/wine/isv ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 22:58, Timothy D. Witham wrote: 2) Group calendaring including meeting scheduling. i..e. I want to check if Tom, Bill, Linus and Buddy the wonder dog are available at 10:00 PM. This includes a laptop resyncing when it gets back to a connected state and the last know schedule being available on a server. 3) Proxies for executives. i.e. Setup an admin to be able to respond to the executive's mail so that it appears to be coming from the executive so the lower folks don't know that the executive doesn't read most of their own mail. P.S. Open source because they don't want to be locked in like what happened with their last supplier of group mail/calendaring. This seems to be the problem as folks keep doing new clients when the issues is the server side stuff. Open source solutions like Kolab, OpenGroupware, Open-Xchange, eGroupware, etc. do solve all or at least most of these issues today (depending on what server you look at and the exact use case you have). Maybe this fact is just not known enough. -- Cornelius Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
Re: [Desktop_architects] Most wanted Application: Email
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 17:35 -0500, Mike Shaver wrote: On 21-Dec-05, at 4:58 PM, Timothy D. Witham wrote: 1) Good sync with handheld devices. Phone, Blackbeary (sp?) and Plam or pocket PC Evo does that in many cases, I thought, but yeah, I can totally see that being a barrier. Seems like something that is mostly client-side. But not reliably - I've setup my Pilot about 5 times and still it all goes away every once in awhile. I've talked to other folks who have the same sort of issues. 2) Group calendaring including meeting scheduling. i..e. I want to check if Tom, Bill, Linus and Buddy the wonder dog are available at 10:00 PM. This includes a laptop resyncing when it gets back to a connected state and the last know schedule being available on a server. That's not email, but OK, I definitely believe that it's a barrier to adoption. Evo has that capability with Exchange now, though -- what are the cases in which that breaks down? It is to the corporate people. It is important to remember who is the customer. They might not always be right in their definitions but they are always the customer. (I have a harder time believing that OpenOffice was is a more important browser application or plug-in to support than QuickTime, Windows Media, or _Java_and_ActiveX_. Is there a way to see what the results look like if we limit to the set of respondents whose jobs would indicate that they are specify/approve/purchase?) 3) Proxies for executives. i.e. Setup an admin to be able to respond to the executive's mail so that it appears to be coming from the executive so the lower folks don't know that the executive doesn't read most of their own mail. I must not be understanding this requirement, because that sounds like the sort of thing that is done by setting up the admin's mail client to point at the same IMAP account as the executives. If that's really the #3 issue, though, it sounds like we're in good shape. It is sort of close but not the same. The issue is the admin setups the meeting and then responds as the admin. What they want is the admin to respond as the executive. This seems to be the problem as folks keep doing new clients when the issues is the server side stuff. I don't understand -- Linux desktop deployment is gated by there not being open source servers on Linux for mail and calendaring? Why are those related? The Linux desktop could deploy against Exchange/ GroupWise/Notes/etc., no? It is one of those things. Well if I'm going to keep all of this other stuff around I'm going to keep the desktop I know also. In short they don't see the whole move so it gives them the easy way out of moving at all. Strange but true. Thanks for the list, though -- what's the source of those pain points? From the comments in the survey? From places like the LUAC and talking to large end user CIO's. (I was at a conference two weeks ago with a big group of these folks. I haven't seen 90+ suits in a room in about a decade.) But this is a big issue to them. Tim Mike -- Timothy D. Witham - Chief Technology Officer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Open Source Development Lab Inc - A non-profit corporation 12725 SW Millikan Way - Suite 400 - Beaverton OR, 97005 (503)-906-1911 (office)(503)-702-2871 (cell) (503)-626-2436 (fax) ___ Desktop_architects mailing list Desktop_architects@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop_architects
