Re: Where are my spare ribs ?

[Luca Morandini]

Arje Cahn wrote:


Spareribs location [1]:
Restaurant "Moeders Mooiste" ('mum's prettiest')
Heinekenplein 5


Sorry to bother you again, but... at which time are we supposed to meet ?

Regards,


   Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it

Re: Where are my spare ribs ?

[Luca Morandini]

Arje Cahn wrote:


Whoops Let me correct that! I'll put it on the site.
Thanks for pointing out...


...and maybe a reminder on both lists.

Thanks,


   Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it

RE: Where are my spare ribs ?

[Arje Cahn]

Spareribs location [1]:
Restaurant "Moeders Mooiste" ('mum's prettiest')
Heinekenplein 5

The Heinekenplein is in the PIPE district, and the restaurant is near the 
(tram) LINE :-)
Get it? I guess it must've been Heineken who really invented the first pipeline 
- at this very place! :-%

Oh, here's the sitemap:
[1] http://www.cocoongt.org/binaries/1_map2.png

-- Arje (who is really looking forward to the GT)


> -Original Message-
> From: Arje Cahn 
> Posted At: woensdag 5 oktober 2005 8:08
> Posted To: Cocoon Dev List
> Conversation: Where are my spare ribs ?
> Subject: RE: Where are my spare ribs ?
> 
> 
> Whoops Let me correct that! I'll put it on the site.
> Thanks for pointing out...
> 
> 
> Arjé
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Luca Morandini
> > Posted At: dinsdag 4 oktober 2005 18:36
> > Posted To: Cocoon Dev List
> > Conversation: Where are my spare ribs ?
> > Subject: Where are my spare ribs ?
> > 
> > 
> > Folks,
> > 
> > it's probably only me missing the announcement... but I fail 
> > to see the 
> > 6th of Oct. meeting-point for the dinner on the GT website: could 
> > someone point it tp me ?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Luca Morandini
> > www.lucamorandini.it
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

RE: Where are my spare ribs ?

[Arje Cahn]

Whoops Let me correct that! I'll put it on the site.
Thanks for pointing out...


Arjé

> -Original Message-
> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Luca Morandini
> Posted At: dinsdag 4 oktober 2005 18:36
> Posted To: Cocoon Dev List
> Conversation: Where are my spare ribs ?
> Subject: Where are my spare ribs ?
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> it's probably only me missing the announcement... but I fail 
> to see the 
> 6th of Oct. meeting-point for the dinner on the GT website: could 
> someone point it tp me ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Luca Morandini
> www.lucamorandini.it
> 
> 
> 

Re: Offerta di lavoro

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Tuesday 04 October 2005 21:53, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Wow! A Cocoon job offer for italians only

Nah, that would be discrimination nowadays. A job where understanding italian 
is a pre-requisite, must be the term. Maybe it should have been listed under 
"languages" :o)

Cheers
Niclas

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Carsten Ziegeler]

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>>Stefano,
>>
>>We are a large number of people who got inspired of your visions and 
>>have spent years on develop and implement them. Some have even built 
>>companies around Cocoon. Now everyone who want to start using Cocoon in 
>>a project, sell products based on it or services have to fight:
>>
>>"The founder of Cocoon find it obsolete."
> 
> 
> Read http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/94/ before 
> putting words in my mouth.
> 
The problem is imho that people tend to think in headlines - like the
one above. So whatever you tell in the following three hundred pages or
whatever is irrelevant to 99%. And this means the message most people
get is exactly how Daniel has put it.
Everywhere I go I'm faced with scared users asking me "What should we
use know as Cocoon is dead?" (I replaced obsolete with dead here to make
it more dramatically - also people are asking exactly this question).
And what should I answer them? "Oh, it wasn't meant this way, it's just
a wake up call." Now, you can imagine which questions are asked next.

So I agree with Daniel here that the whole "wake up call" (if it was
any) was not the best thing that could happen for Cocoon.

And we as a community should not start running around like headless
chickens crying out "I saw the light, we were so wrong. We must do
something! But what?". We all know what we should do next, we already
knew it before this mail and all we have to do is just continuing the
work - so in the end less discussions about what we should do and how
great everything could be and more doing.

Talking without doing is absolutely useless imho.

Carsten
-- 
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/

Re: multiple xpaths

[David]

Thank you for your response. I will surely look into STC more but am 
really hoping for complete xpath support.


The paper you referenced me too... any idea if its actually been done? 
Sounds like it is just ideas and hasn't been implemented.


Thanks,
David

Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:

David wrote:


Upayavira wrote:


David wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


David wrote:

I am writing a cocoon transformer and need to know when any of 
multiple xpaths match. I'm sure there must be a be a more 
efficient way then converting it to a DOM document and then 
running each xpath to get the nodelist of each.


What is the best way to do this?



Take a look at this 
http://www.idealliance.org/papers/dx_xmle04/papers/03-07-02/03-07-02.html, 
stream based matching against several XPaths. IIRC there are more 
research and maybe even implementations of similar ideas, but I don't 
remember any references.


The problem with XPath is that it's intrinsically tied to the DOM 
hierarchical model. So you need to have a DOM ready to query the 
document with XPath.


You may want to have a look at STX [1], which uses a subset of 
XPath that is suited to streamed processing.


Sylvain

[1] http://stx.sourceforge.net/

I was looking at STX too but couldn't find a way to use it from 
Java. Anyone know how you use it without making an stx file?


I understand the issue with xpaths and needing DOM. I know xalan has 
its Document Table Model (DTM) that improves on performance. Anyone 
know if we can tap into that without writting a XSL file?



For an example of using STX in java, see the STX block, that allows 
you to use STX as a normal Cocoon transformer.


Regards, Upayavira


I looked in there already :-)
There are no Java examples. Only xmap and stx files. Maybe in some 
branch of cocoon?



Take a look at http://joost.sourceforge.net/ the implementation that we 
use, there are some Java examples there, IIRC. Joost implements the Trax 
API, so there where never any need for writting any Java code for the 
STX transformer, I just used the TraxTransformer with another 
configuration.


/Daniel

Re: Offerta di lavoro

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 4 Oct 2005, at 14:53, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

Alessandro Vincelli wrote:


W4b - Web for business s.r.l., web agency con sede in Firenze, sta

cercando un programmatore con esperienza su Cocoon per lo sviluppo  
di importanti software gestionali.


Le conoscenze richieste sono:
- Ottime conoscenze dei linguaggi XML, XSLT, XPATH, Java, Sql e  
javascript.

- Ottime conoscenze del framework Cocoon.

Sede di lavoro: Firenze
Tipo di contratto: full time a tempo indeterminato
La ricerca è rivolta ad entrambi i sessi.

Tutti i candidati interessati sono pregati di inviare un  
dettagliato CV indicando, oltre al consenso al trattamento dei  
dati personali ai sensi del D.lgs 196/03, il codice di riferimento  
*Rif. JO/mlc* all’indirizzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] oppure via posta  
all’indirizzo: W4b - Web for business s.r.l Via Pellicceria, 10,  
50123 Firenze oppure via fax al numero 055.281985


Wow! A Cocoon job offer for italians only :-)


In Italy you'll probably die of starvation if you don't know  
Italian! :-)


Pier



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

DO NOT REPLY [Bug 35566] - ZipArchiveSerializer can produce corrupt ZIP files

[bugzilla]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG·
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND·
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=35566


[EMAIL PROTECTED] changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED
 Resolution||FIXED




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2005-10-04 19:43 ---
Ok issue resolved. The problem was being caused by Apache 2.0.54 (buggy version)
which I use as a front hook to Jboss 4/cocoon. Upgrading Apache to 2.1.8
resolved the issue.

-- 
Configure bugmail: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Christoph Hermann]

Thomas Lutz schrieb:

Hello list,

> Although I am not sure wether I know how this framework works yet :-), I
> am quite sure the drop in traffic has a lot to do with it. So +1 for me.
> Where are the new users that start with cocoon ? I think, whoever starts
> with cocoon has enough "webexperience" to first search the
> mailarchives... and most answers are there now..

There are 'some' users questions on IRC freenode/#cocoon and some
xml-channels too and there are also some bulletin boards out there where
one talks about cocoon.
Imho the problem with cocoon is the high learning curve at the beginning
(i faced this problem too), but it gets more and more fun when you know
more ;).

I would not join the two lists together because users would get all the
bugzilla-posts, "offtopic", etc. discussions which would confuse
beginners (like me when i started).

It would be better to copy the users-posts to the dev-list if its too
complicated for the dev's to subscribe to the users-list ;-)

And hey, you get really good support on IRC when you have enough time to
wait :)

Just my 2cents
Christoph

Where are my spare ribs ?

[Luca Morandini]

Folks,

it's probably only me missing the announcement... but I fail to see the 
6th of Oct. meeting-point for the dinner on the GT website: could 
someone point it tp me ?


Regards,


   Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Thomas Lutz]

Mark Lundquist wrote:



On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:51 AM, JD Daniels wrote:

I figured out how to use it, I am off making my own POJO's to plug 
into the basic cocoon install I have settled on. I have a suspicion 
that the drop in traffic is attributable to this - users simply 
evolve. The questions I have to ask now (As opposed to when I started 
with cocoon) simply can't be answered by the other new people on users@



Absolutely true in my case as well.
—ml—


Although I am not sure wether I know how this framework works yet :-), I 
am quite sure the drop in traffic has a lot to do with it. So +1 for me.
Where are the new users that start with cocoon ? I think, whoever starts 
with cocoon has enough "webexperience" to first search the 
mailarchives... and most answers are there now..


tom

JXTemplate Generator exception when upgrading to 2.1.8-dev...

[Thomas Lutz]

Hi list !

I just tried my 2.1.7 based app with BRANCH_2_1_X head, and got a very 
mysterious exception (full stacktrace below):


Undefined function: 
org.apache.cocoon.forms.generation.JXMacrosHelper.createHelper


This is the line breaking it:

 value="#{org.apache.cocoon.forms.generation.JXMacrosHelper.createHelper($cocoon/consumer,$cocoon/request)}"/>


This has happened before, searching the mail-archives I found

   http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@cocoon.apache.org/msg34384.html
   http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@cocoon.apache.org/msg30986.html

I tried both suggestions, added a  in 
my root sitemap (can't do it in my production sitemaps, as I use 
javaflow), and prefixed Packages in jx-macros.xml.


  value="#{Packages.org.apache.cocoon.forms.generation.JXMacrosHelper.createHelper($cocoon/consumer,$cocoon/request)}"/>


The try with the map:flow tag made no difference, when I add the 
Packages. in jx-macros.xml I get a class not found exception (stacktrace 
below again).


Well, I am rather clueless :-(... all I know is that it worked with 2.1.7.

Please :-) help !


thanks,
tom


org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException: Sitemap: error calling function 
'genericForm' at  - 
file:/opt/jboss-4.0.3RC1/server/default/./deploy/_cocore.war/main/sitemap.xmap:153:40 
at  - 
file:/opt/jboss-4.0.3RC1/server/default/./deploy/_cocore.war/sitemap.xmap:692:66 



cause: org.apache.commons.jxpath.JXPathException: Undefined function: 
org.apache.cocoon.forms.generation.JXMacrosHelper.createHelper


full exception chain stacktrace[hide]

org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException: Sitemap: error calling function 
'genericForm'
at  - 
file:/opt/jboss-4.0.3RC1/server/default/./deploy/_cocore.war/main/sitemap.xmap:153:40
at  - 
file:/opt/jboss-4.0.3RC1/server/default/./deploy/_cocore.war/sitemap.xmap:692:66
at 
org.apache.cocoon.ProcessingException.throwLocated(ProcessingException.java:112)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.CallFunctionNode.invoke(CallFunctionNode.java:140)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:46)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PreparableMatchNode.invoke(PreparableMatchNode.java:130)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:46)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.ActTypeNode.invoke(ActTypeNode.java:138)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:68)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PipelineNode.invoke(PipelineNode.java:142)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:68)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PipelinesNode.invoke(PipelinesNode.java:92)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.ConcreteTreeProcessor.process(ConcreteTreeProcessor.java:234)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.ConcreteTreeProcessor.process(ConcreteTreeProcessor.java:176)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.TreeProcessor.process(TreeProcessor.java:248)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.MountNode.invoke(MountNode.java:117)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:46)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PreparableMatchNode.invoke(PreparableMatchNode.java:130)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:68)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PipelineNode.invoke(PipelineNode.java:142)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.AbstractParentProcessingNode.invokeNodes(AbstractParentProcessingNode.java:68)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.sitemap.PipelinesNode.invoke(PipelinesNode.java:92)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.ConcreteTreeProcessor.process(ConcreteTreeProcessor.java:234)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.ConcreteTreeProcessor.process(ConcreteTreeProcessor.java:176)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.components.treeprocessor.TreeProcessor.process(TreeProcessor.java:248)
at org.apache.cocoon.Cocoon.process(Cocoon.java:679)
at 
org.apache.cocoon.servlet.CocoonServlet.service(CocoonServlet.java:1154)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:810)
at 
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:252)
at 
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:173)
at 
com.aimfinsysag.web.session.Aim

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Mark Lundquist]

On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:51 AM, JD Daniels wrote:

I figured out how to use it, I am off making my own POJO's to plug 
into the basic cocoon install I have settled on. I have a suspicion 
that the drop in traffic is attributable to this - users simply 
evolve. The questions I have to ask now (As opposed to when I started 
with cocoon) simply can't be answered by the other new people on 
users@


Absolutely true in my case as well.
—ml—

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Sylvain Wallez]

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:


Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:


Steven Noels wrote:
...

The same kind of wonder I had when this thread started - as in "oh 
no, this is sooo easy and self-centered!".



Yes self-centered and irresponsible.



LOL

Steven and Daniel, I'm sorry, but your comments prove my point. 
Sylvain was the only one understanding what this was all about [1]: a 
wake up call.



Hey, this gives me one more reason for not wanting the merge of the user 
and dev lists!


Along with the disruptive technical proposal that happen on the dev 
list, we also have to consider the "firebrand in the anthill" posts 
meant to awaken the community. We are able to understand this, as we 
know each other and we know our history. Users do not and will simply 
run back to the quieter Struts lists if they read that on the list where 
they hope to find help and support.


Sylvain

--
Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies
http://people.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Stefano Mazzocchi]

Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:

Steven Noels wrote:
...

The same kind of wonder I had when this thread started - as in "oh no, 
this is sooo easy and self-centered!".



Yes self-centered and irresponsible.


LOL

Steven and Daniel, I'm sorry, but your comments prove my point. Sylvain 
was the only one understanding what this was all about [1]: a wake up call.


[1] http://www.anyware-tech.com/blogs/sylvain/archives/000217.html


 --- o0o ---

Stefano,

We are a large number of people who got inspired of your visions and 
have spent years on develop and implement them. Some have even built 
companies around Cocoon. Now everyone who want to start using Cocoon in 
a project, sell products based on it or services have to fight:


"The founder of Cocoon find it obsolete."


Read http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/94/ before 
putting words in my mouth.



You really don't help us.


Nobody is more blind than who doesn't want to see.

--
Stefano.

Re: [CForms] Cardinality check for repeater

[Jeroen Reijn]

Thomas,

i've not tried it yet, but thanks for the effort!

Jeroen

Thomas Lutz wrote:

Thomas Lutz wrote:


Ok, so lets sum up what we've got so far:

-its not sure that we get valid data from the binding
-so we need validation _and_ enabling/disabling of the action buttons
-enabling and disabling could be done in the ActionRepeater* classes

So the last problem is the right place for the validation message.

As the repeater-actions are not a musthave in a repeater, there's not 
much left:

-Attach the validation message to the repeater-size ? Not very nice ?
-Introduce a new ft:repeater-validation-message tag ?



I think this is done now:

-see bug 36781
-i created a new ft:repeater-validation-message tag
-enabling and disabling the buttons can be achieved with jorgs jx template

Sorry if I got something wrong, was not the easiest start to dive into 
cForms .-).


regards,
Tom

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

Geert Josten wrote:
...
Too bad you cannot cross-post between the two lists, that alone could 
have made things easier.


The developer list should receive mails also from the user list with 
[Users] prepended. In this way developers get user mails, but users 
don't need to read all the longwinding discussions about internals 
(which tend to frighten some).


--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[JD Daniels]

I'd like to chime in here.

Your points make perfect sense, But as a user ( I say user because 
cocoon internals are beyond my capability/time constraints to figure 
out) I get stuck with a "WTF" moment, struggle, struggle, struggle, 
Email users@, wait maybe 3-4 days, rewrite the mail because maybe I'm 
not being clear on my problem, ask again, wait a few more days, then 
mail the dev list. Answer usually shows up in 6-8 hours ( I think 
because I am in western Canada, and you all are asleep when I mail :) )


I have all these messages in the same mail folder, and I am just as bad 
about  reading the user list and answering the questions I am able to.


The first 2 years were, basically, hell. But once I figured out the 
basics, I find my self not reading the list so much, and just emptying 
the folder when I hit about 2000 messages (Pausing on the usually very 
interesting [RT]'s ) because everything works now - I figured out how to 
use it, I am off making my own POJO's to plug into the basic cocoon 
install I have settled on. I have a suspicion that the drop in traffic 
is attributable to this - users simply evolve. The questions I have to 
ask now (As opposed to when I started with cocoon) simply can't be 
answered by the other new people on users@


I think consolidating the two lists would be very helpful because it 
will be a single resource we all would use.


Maybe I am talking out my *** , but there's my thoughts.

JD

Sylvain Wallez wrote:

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

In these days of wild thoughts, here's another one: how about closing 
the users@ list and having just one list for cocoon-related discussions?


I think I have a few good reasons for this:

One: The line between cocoon users and developers is fairly thin, it 
is not as in Open Office for example, where most users do not even 
know what the C language is. Our users are more and more competent 
software developers who would often have interesting things to say if 
they were around, and might like this place more if they felt more 
involved. Cocoon has been finding its niche as a tool for serious 
application developers, as opposed to a press-button publishing tool, 
which it has never been and will never be.


Two: my guess is that many dev@ subscribers could answer some users@ 
questions very quickly, but sometimes we don't bother looking at the 
list, and some of us are probably not even subscribed there. It's a 
waste of energy, and has probably caused otherwise competent people to 
go away after not getting good enough answers.


Three: dev@ subscribers tend to use good messages subjects and [TOPIC 
MARKERS] in subject lines to make the lists easy to filter, visually 
or automatically. So I'm not worried about the increased traffic, 
we'll find a way to make it sortable by teaching our community about 
good subject lines or defining a few more [markers].  Okay, this is 
not really a *reason*, but it's needed for my argumentation ;-D


Four: for many subjects one does not know on which list to post, again 
a waste of energy as threads regulary bounce between the lists. We 
developers tend to discuss between ourselves things that are of 
general interest, without bothering to move to users@ as it's not "our 
home".


Five: having two lists, one for Highly Qualified Meritocratic Core 
Developers and another for Mere Users does not sound like the openness 
and flat structure that we're advocating (I'm being a bit provocative 
here, on purpose ;-)


Six; the closing down of the docs@ list has only been positive, by 
defragmenting the community w.r.t docs and allowing all developers to 
be informed of what's happening with the [docs] (hint: note the good 
use of the [marker]).


Seven: Having a single point of discussion will help us know our users 
better, this alone is worth its weight in bytes.


So, WDYT?




I don't have that many reasons, but I don't think this is a good idea:

One: Marketing wise, this will be a very bad sign, and would give to the 
outside world the impression that the Cocoon acceptance has shrunk so 
much than two lists are too much. And although traffic has dropped, 
we're far from that.


Two: Cocoon-dev is scary for newbies, or even intermediate users. 
Disruptive random thoughts, design discussions about the very deep guts 
of the engine, etc. Some of my colleague, which I consider advanced 
users sometimes tell me they don't understand what the heck I'm talking 
about in some of my posts. If we want more people to come to Cocoon, 
exposing them to the dev's foolish discussions will just make them turn 
away.


Now you're right that some developers neglect users@ (yeah, I'm in this 
category). This used to be because of the huge traffic. In my 
Thunderbird, users@ is deep down in the lists I read through 
news.gmane.org. That's a bad thing and I will now use a regular mail 
subscription so that it sits just beside the dev@ folder that I monitor 
every 5 minutes. And I strongly invite other devs in the s

Re: cocoon.getComponent returns a proxy

[Carsten Ziegeler]

Upayavira wrote:
> Jörg Heinicke wrote:
> 
>>>How do I stop the component manager offering me a proxy and force it to 
>>>give me the object itself?
>>
>>
>>Maybe this one: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11153970592&r=1&w=4 ??
> 
> 
> Strange, but it works. Implementing Component made it work. Presumably 
> that doesn't matter in Cocoon 2.2?
> 
This is due to compatibility between using ComponentManager (returning a
Component) and ServiceManager (returning just Object). The ECM always
creates a proxy if a component does not implement the Component
interface. So you'll get your component/proxy even if you're using
ComponentManager.

We removed ComponentManager and friends in 2.2 completly, so 2.2 does
not create proxies anymore.

Carsten
-- 
Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.s-und-n.de
http://www.osoco.org/weblogs/rael/

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[JD Daniels]

For a very long time now, I have been subscribed to both lists, and have 
my rule put them all in the same mail folder. :)


This is a good idea IMHO

JD

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
In these days of wild thoughts, here's another one: how about closing 
the users@ list and having just one list for cocoon-related discussions?


I think I have a few good reasons for this:

One: The line between cocoon users and developers is fairly thin, it is 
not as in Open Office for example, where most users do not even know 
what the C language is. Our users are more and more competent software 
developers who would often have interesting things to say if they were 
around, and might like this place more if they felt more involved. 
Cocoon has been finding its niche as a tool for serious application 
developers, as opposed to a press-button publishing tool, which it has 
never been and will never be.


Two: my guess is that many dev@ subscribers could answer some users@ 
questions very quickly, but sometimes we don't bother looking at the 
list, and some of us are probably not even subscribed there. It's a 
waste of energy, and has probably caused otherwise competent people to 
go away after not getting good enough answers.


Three: dev@ subscribers tend to use good messages subjects and [TOPIC 
MARKERS] in subject lines to make the lists easy to filter, visually or 
automatically. So I'm not worried about the increased traffic, we'll 
find a way to make it sortable by teaching our community about good 
subject lines or defining a few more [markers].  Okay, this is not 
really a *reason*, but it's needed for my argumentation ;-D


Four: for many subjects one does not know on which list to post, again a 
waste of energy as threads regulary bounce between the lists. We 
developers tend to discuss between ourselves things that are of general 
interest, without bothering to move to users@ as it's not "our home".


Five: having two lists, one for Highly Qualified Meritocratic Core 
Developers and another for Mere Users does not sound like the openness 
and flat structure that we're advocating (I'm being a bit provocative 
here, on purpose ;-)


Six; the closing down of the docs@ list has only been positive, by 
defragmenting the community w.r.t docs and allowing all developers to be 
informed of what's happening with the [docs] (hint: note the good use of 
the [marker]).


Seven: Having a single point of discussion will help us know our users 
better, this alone is worth its weight in bytes.


So, WDYT?

-Bertrand

Re: multiple xpaths

[Daniel Fagerstrom]

David wrote:


Upayavira wrote:


David wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


David wrote:

I am writing a cocoon transformer and need to know when any of 
multiple xpaths match. I'm sure there must be a be a more 
efficient way then converting it to a DOM document and then 
running each xpath to get the nodelist of each.


What is the best way to do this?


Take a look at this 
http://www.idealliance.org/papers/dx_xmle04/papers/03-07-02/03-07-02.html, 
stream based matching against several XPaths. IIRC there are more 
research and maybe even implementations of similar ideas, but I don't 
remember any references.


The problem with XPath is that it's intrinsically tied to the DOM 
hierarchical model. So you need to have a DOM ready to query the 
document with XPath.


You may want to have a look at STX [1], which uses a subset of 
XPath that is suited to streamed processing.


Sylvain

[1] http://stx.sourceforge.net/

I was looking at STX too but couldn't find a way to use it from 
Java. Anyone know how you use it without making an stx file?


I understand the issue with xpaths and needing DOM. I know xalan has 
its Document Table Model (DTM) that improves on performance. Anyone 
know if we can tap into that without writting a XSL file?


For an example of using STX in java, see the STX block, that allows 
you to use STX as a normal Cocoon transformer.


Regards, Upayavira


I looked in there already :-)
There are no Java examples. Only xmap and stx files. Maybe in some 
branch of cocoon?


Take a look at http://joost.sourceforge.net/ the implementation that we 
use, there are some Java examples there, IIRC. Joost implements the Trax 
API, so there where never any need for writting any Java code for the 
STX transformer, I just used the TraxTransformer with another configuration.


/Daniel

Re: Offerta di lavoro

[Sylvain Wallez]

Alessandro Vincelli wrote:


W4b - Web for business s.r.l., web agency con sede in Firenze, sta

cercando un programmatore con esperienza su Cocoon per lo sviluppo di 
importanti software gestionali.


Le conoscenze richieste sono:
- Ottime conoscenze dei linguaggi XML, XSLT, XPATH, Java, Sql e 
javascript.

- Ottime conoscenze del framework Cocoon.

Sede di lavoro: Firenze
Tipo di contratto: full time a tempo indeterminato
La ricerca è rivolta ad entrambi i sessi.

Tutti i candidati interessati sono pregati di inviare un dettagliato 
CV indicando, oltre al consenso al trattamento dei dati personali ai 
sensi del D.lgs 196/03, il codice di riferimento *Rif. JO/mlc* 
all’indirizzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] oppure via posta all’indirizzo: W4b - Web 
for business s.r.l Via Pellicceria, 10, 50123 Firenze oppure via fax 
al numero 055.281985



Wow! A Cocoon job offer for italians only :-)

Sylvain

--
Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies
http://people.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director

Re: multiple xpaths

[David]

Upayavira wrote:

David wrote:


Sylvain Wallez wrote:


David wrote:

I am writing a cocoon transformer and need to know when any of 
multiple xpaths match. I'm sure there must be a be a more efficient 
way then converting it to a DOM document and then running each xpath 
to get the nodelist of each.


What is the best way to do this?






The problem with XPath is that it's intrinsically tied to the DOM 
hierarchical model. So you need to have a DOM ready to query the 
document with XPath.


You may want to have a look at STX [1], which uses a subset of XPath 
that is suited to streamed processing.


Sylvain

[1] http://stx.sourceforge.net/



I was looking at STX too but couldn't find a way to use it from Java. 
Anyone know how you use it without making an stx file?


I understand the issue with xpaths and needing DOM. I know xalan has 
its Document Table Model (DTM) that improves on performance. Anyone 
know if we can tap into that without writting a XSL file?



For an example of using STX in java, see the STX block, that allows you 
to use STX as a normal Cocoon transformer.


Regards, Upayavira



I looked in there already :-)
There are no Java examples. Only xmap and stx files. Maybe in some 
branch of cocoon?


David

Offerta di lavoro

[Alessandro Vincelli]

W4b - Web for business s.r.l., web agency con sede in Firenze, sta

cercando un programmatore con esperienza su Cocoon per lo sviluppo di 
importanti software gestionali.


Le conoscenze richieste sono:
- Ottime conoscenze dei linguaggi XML, XSLT, XPATH, Java, Sql e javascript.
- Ottime conoscenze del framework Cocoon.

Sede di lavoro: Firenze
Tipo di contratto: full time a tempo indeterminato
La ricerca è rivolta ad entrambi i sessi.

Tutti i candidati interessati sono pregati di inviare un dettagliato CV 
indicando, oltre al consenso al trattamento dei dati personali ai sensi 
del D.lgs 196/03, il codice di riferimento *Rif. JO/mlc* all’indirizzo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] oppure via posta all’indirizzo: W4b - Web for business 
s.r.l Via Pellicceria, 10, 50123 Firenze oppure via fax al numero 
055.281985



--
---
Alessandro Vincelli
W4B - web for business s.r.l.
Firenze
via Pellicceria 10 - 50123
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel: 055-2654270

Re: [Docs] Request for test-export from Daisy to Forrest

[Ross Gardler]

Steven Noels wrote:

On 04 Oct 2005, at 15:00, Ross Gardler wrote:


Steven hoped to find the time to do it last week.



No, I didn't. How about during the HT? Upgrading shouldn't take more 
than an hour.


I currently don't have access to the zone (I'm not a committer here at 
Cocoon), however, it was mentioned that I should get access to work with 
Daisy.


If you can find the time - that would be brilliant. If not I will do it 
as soon as I am able.


Thanks.

Ross

Re: [Docs] Request for test-export from Daisy to Forrest

[Reinhard Poetz]

Steven Noels wrote:

On 04 Oct 2005, at 15:00, Ross Gardler wrote:


Steven hoped to find the time to do it last week.



No, I didn't. How about during the HT? Upgrading shouldn't take more 
than an hour.


+1

--
Reinhard Pötz   Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 


{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}

   web(log): http://www.poetz.cc



___ 
Was denken Sie über E-Mail? Wir hören auf Ihre Meinung: http://surveylink.yahoo.com/wix/p0379378.aspx

Re: [Docs] Request for test-export from Daisy to Forrest

[Steven Noels]

On 04 Oct 2005, at 15:00, Ross Gardler wrote:


Steven hoped to find the time to do it last week.


No, I didn't. How about during the HT? Upgrading shouldn't take more 
than an hour.



--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought  Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org

Re: [Docs] Request for test-export from Daisy to Forrest

[Ross Gardler]

Helma van der Linden wrote:

Ross,

There is a considerable amount of documentation in the legacydocs in 
Daisy at cocoon.zones and although it is not finished yet, the 
navigation doc reflects about 80% of the current documentation.


So it would be nice if you could try your Daisy2Forrest app to see if 
things work out or if extra work (apart from the missing pages) needs to 
be done.


Has the Daisy instance been updated? This is a requriement for it to 
work I'm afraid.


I may have missed the mail saying it was done.

Steven hoped to find the time to do it last week. If Steven has been 
unable to do it so far perhaps I can be given access to do it?


Incidentally there is some new funcitonality in the 1.4M1 release that 
Cocoon would find usefl - making books out of content. But we can come 
to that when the time is right.


Ross

Re: including Zip Source within Cocoon

[Vadim Gritsenko]

Michael Wechner wrote:

I would suggest to add them to the core,


I'm on it

Vadim

RE: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Arje Cahn]

> >> I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.

I'll be here too ;-) - but I'm afraid I'll be busy finishing things and unable 
to join ce soir..

Arjé

RE: [GT2005] Buglisting?

[Arje Cahn]

Hi Bertrand,

> I am, won't have time to do it before I leave, but if there's 
> a printer 
> there we'll find a way.

Great, thanks. I'm not really sure we'll have a printer available 
But we'll think of something. We can always print in our offices which is not 
too far away.

Arje

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Daniel Fagerstrom]

Andrew Savory wrote:


Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.


Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and  
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to  
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)


I'll arrive at Schiphol 21.20, I join you if I not get to Amsterdam to late.

/Daniel

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Sylvain Wallez]

Andrew Savory wrote:


Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.



Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and  
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to  
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)



I _should_ have arrived this evening, but the public sector has decided 
to go on strike today in France, and I had to move the flight tomorrow 
morning. Wake up at 4:30, arrival at Schiphol at 8:50 :-(


Sylvain

--
Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies
http://people.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Joerg Heinicke]

Torsten Curdt  apache.org> writes:

> >> I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.
> >>
> >
> > Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon,  
> > and would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not  
> > to mention throwing some flack at Steven 
> 
> Marcus and me arrive around 7 tonight.

Same here, I guess with the same train.

Jörg

Re: jdk 1.3: thanks

[hepabolu]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Le 3 oct. 05, à 21:30, Antonio Gallardo a écrit :

...I WASTED not only my last weekend, but a lot of time keeping the 
f*** java 1.3 compatibility...



I agree about the *** but anyway, THANKS Antonio for this work.

Keeping 1.3 compatibility for the 2.1.x branch has been a community 
decision IIRC, and it's thanks to regular contributions like yours that 
this decision is a reality.


Now, of course, 1.3 is not that important today and we can certainly 
drop this soon - but dropping it in between minor releases wouldn't be a 
good idea, so big thanks!


Big +1 here!

I wasn't around when this decision was made and I was surprised to read 
that you don't need it yourself either, so that proves all the more the 
effort and commitment from you Antonio.


I'd suggest we all need to explicitly let you know how much we 
appreciate your work and dedication, rather than have you deduct 
implicit compliments from a discussion that's going off-topic by the 
time you felt compelled to react.


So once again: BIG THANKS.

Bye, Helma

[GT2005] update reminder

[Torsten Curdt]

Guys, don't forget...

Help us to save some bandwidth and do
a "svn up" before you head off.

See you soon
--
Torsten


PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

[GT2005] PGP reminder

[Torsten Curdt]

...don't forget to print your PGP fingerprints :)

cheers
--
Torsten


PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Torsten Curdt]

On 04.10.2005, at 12:14, Andrew Savory wrote:


Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:



I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.



Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon,  
and would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not  
to mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)


Marcus and me arrive around 7 tonight.

cheers
--
Torsten



PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Steven Noels]

On 04 Oct 2005, at 12:14, Andrew Savory wrote:


Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.


Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and 
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to 
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)


We're just discussing here when we'll start driving. I guess we'll be 
in Amsterdam around 20-21PM - in or near the Rho-hotel perhaps?


, donning his asbesto underwear and leather toys - rah!
--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought  Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Le 4 oct. 05, à 12:14, Andrew Savory a écrit :


...Anyone else arriving tonight?...


I'll be there sometime tomorrow morning only, please send some flak 
towards Steven on my behalf ;-)

-Bertrand

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Upayavira]

Andrew Savory wrote:

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.



Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and  
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to  
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)


I'll be there this PM.

Upayavira

[GT2005] Beers ce soir?

[Andrew Savory]

Hi,

On 3 Oct 2005, at 16:19, Steven Noels wrote:


I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack.


Anyone else arriving tonight? I'll be there from late afternoon, and  
would welcome the chance to grab a few beers with people - not to  
mention throwing some flack at Steven ;-)



Andrew.

--
Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Daniel Fagerstrom]

Pier Fumagalli wrote:


On 4 Oct 2005, at 10:16, Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:


[...]

You really don't help us.


Are you sure about this? Especially when you say:


[...]

We are a strong community with a great product that is going to be  
even greater, we can make it.


The first resource of open-source is ego.

Since Stefano said "Cocoon is Obsolete", all I noticed were a lot of  
egoes all saying together "We'll prove you wrong". Can you do it? :-P


Pier (who loves watching this)


Ego is a factor, especially during the "new and cool" phase, but for a 
mature community and product like ours, there are much more to it.


And I have to disapoint you, proving Stefano wrong is not much of a 
motvation for me. It might be fun during a mail discussion, but it is 
certainly not enough motivation for spending a lot of time coding and 
polishing designs.


The discussion might do some good for our current community, but from a 
marketing POV I find Stefano's statement, bad news.


/Daniel

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Jeroen Reijn]

Jorg Heymans wrote:


Splitting up mailinglists works for other OS projects because either
1) they have a self sustaining user list with a lot of advanced users
willing to help out eg Spring forums
2) the developers *actively* help out on every post eg maven-users


As an active Cocoon user I agree with Jorg on this one.
I personally think that we should maintain the two lists, but get more active 
committers on the user list. I guess that if cocoon had up to date documentation 
it would be less necessary, but that's not the case right now. It would also be 
nice to be able to add comments to pieces of documentation, so users can add 
usefull information to certain subjects.


Sometimes I'm reading posts on the dev-list that make completely no sense to me.
I've been working with cocoon for 2 years now so I can imagine that for somebody 
who is new to cocoon those subjects are pretty scary and maybe create the idea 
that cocoon is very hard to understand.


Well the good side to Stefano's email is that it's getting everybody focussed 
(especially everybody on the dev-list). I think this will give us enough to talk 
about the next couple of days. For those comming to the hackathon or GT. See you 
tomorrow, thursday or friday!


Jeroen

Re: [CForms] Cardinality check for repeater

[Thomas Lutz]

Thomas Lutz wrote:


Ok, so lets sum up what we've got so far:

-its not sure that we get valid data from the binding
-so we need validation _and_ enabling/disabling of the action buttons
-enabling and disabling could be done in the ActionRepeater* classes

So the last problem is the right place for the validation message.

As the repeater-actions are not a musthave in a repeater, there's not 
much left:

-Attach the validation message to the repeater-size ? Not very nice ?
-Introduce a new ft:repeater-validation-message tag ?


I think this is done now:

-see bug 36781
-i created a new ft:repeater-validation-message tag
-enabling and disabling the buttons can be achieved with jorgs jx template

Sorry if I got something wrong, was not the easiest start to dive into 
cForms .-).


regards,
Tom

DO NOT REPLY [Bug 36781] - [PATCH] repeater min and maxsize attributes

[bugzilla]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG·
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND·
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=36781


[EMAIL PROTECTED] changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #16496|0   |1
is obsolete||




--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2005-10-04 11:48 ---
Created an attachment (id=16584)
 --> (http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=16584&action=view)
Adds validation-message element to repeater

This patch enhances jorg's patch for min max attributes with validation.

A new ft:repeater-validation-message is introduces, in the repeater validation
is performed against the min and the max attribute.

-- 
Configure bugmail: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

jdk 1.3: thanks (was: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?)

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Le 3 oct. 05, à 21:30, Antonio Gallardo a écrit :

...I WASTED not only my last weekend, but a lot of time keeping the 
f*** java 1.3 compatibility...


I agree about the *** but anyway, THANKS Antonio for this work.

Keeping 1.3 compatibility for the 2.1.x branch has been a community 
decision IIRC, and it's thanks to regular contributions like yours that 
this decision is a reality.


Now, of course, 1.3 is not that important today and we can certainly 
drop this soon - but dropping it in between minor releases wouldn't be 
a good idea, so big thanks!


-Bertrand


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

DO NOT REPLY [Bug 36907] - Missing dependency on commons-beanutils

[bugzilla]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG·
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND·
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=36907





--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2005-10-04 11:34 ---
Created an attachment (id=16583)
 --> (http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=16583&action=view)
Suggested patch: *not* tested


-- 
Configure bugmail: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

DO NOT REPLY [Bug 36907] - Missing dependency on commons-beanutils

[bugzilla]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG·
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND·
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=36907





--- Additional Comments From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  2005-10-04 11:33 ---
Created an attachment (id=16582)
 --> (http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=16582&action=view)
Selected blocks


-- 
Configure bugmail: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

DO NOT REPLY [Bug 36907] New: - Missing dependency on commons-beanutils

[bugzilla]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, BUT PLEASE POST YOUR BUG·
RELATED COMMENTS THROUGH THE WEB INTERFACE AVAILABLE AT
.
ANY REPLY MADE TO THIS MESSAGE WILL NOT BE COLLECTED AND·
INSERTED IN THE BUG DATABASE.

http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=36907

   Summary: Missing dependency on commons-beanutils
   Product: Cocoon 2
   Version: Current SVN 2.1
  Platform: Other
OS/Version: other
Status: NEW
  Severity: normal
  Priority: P2
 Component: CocoonForms
AssignedTo: dev@cocoon.apache.org
ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


With the attached blocks.properties, CForms samples do not work.  CForms's
JXTemplate macros indirectly need commons-beanutils.

-- 
Configure bugmail: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Pier Fumagalli]

On 4 Oct 2005, at 10:16, Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:


[...]

You really don't help us.


Are you sure about this? Especially when you say:


[...]

We are a strong community with a great product that is going to be  
even greater, we can make it.


The first resource of open-source is ego.

Since Stefano said "Cocoon is Obsolete", all I noticed were a lot of  
egoes all saying together "We'll prove you wrong". Can you do it? :-P


Pier (who loves watching this)


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Daniel Fagerstrom]

Steven Noels wrote:
...

The same kind of wonder I had when this thread started - as in "oh no, 
this is sooo easy and self-centered!".


Yes self-centered and irresponsible.

 --- o0o ---

Stefano,

We are a large number of people who got inspired of your visions and 
have spent years on develop and implement them. Some have even built 
companies around Cocoon. Now everyone who want to start using Cocoon in 
a project, sell products based on it or services have to fight:


"The founder of Cocoon find it obsolete."

You really don't help us.

 --- o0o ---

And, we are reinventing our selves. It takes much more time and effort 
than I would wish, but what cool stuff don't.


And we have stopped waisting time and energy in the "my way or no way" 
ego battles that stopped so much development initiatives before. Now we 
are geting things done and are heading towards our goals in an 
incremental and evolutionary way.


Certainly there are lot of thing we must improve: focus, release habits, 
documentation, modularity. But that is not going to happen by defatism 
of by self pity. It is going to happen by dedication and work.


We are a strong community with a great product that is going to be even 
greater, we can make it.


/Daniel

Re: [GT2005] Buglisting?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Le 4 oct. 05, à 10:35, Arje Cahn a écrit :

...Should we do the bugtable again at the hackaton? And is someone 
willing to printout the bugreports or should I arrange that?

(Bertrand...? I know you're busy..)


I am, won't have time to do it before I leave, but if there's a printer 
there we'll find a way.


-Bertrand




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users cocoon.apache.org

[Joerg Heinicke]

Niclas Hedhman  hedhman.org> writes:

> I am also against "user" list. It has a degenerating tone to it, and the
> fact that many developers are not subscribed to user   seems to promote
> that notion further.

Nah! I don't think that's true. This has nothing to do with a bad tone. It's 
just Apache style to start as user. Cocoon should not start to break ranks.

>   1. Rename the list "support  " or some similarly positive term.

This does not lead to anything. I even have a more negative touch from this 
word than with "users". It completely decouples from the community aspect and 
leads to a more commercial tendency: Asking for support. This will lead fast 
to questions like "My I ask this or that on this list?" as the user community 
aspect is not matched by the name.

Jörg

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Jorg Heymans]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> 
> I think I have a few good reasons for this:
> 
> One: The line between cocoon users and developers is fairly thin, it is
> not as in Open Office for example, where most users do not even know
> what the C language is. Our users are more and more competent software
> developers who would often have interesting things to say if they were
> around, and might like this place more if they felt more involved.
> Cocoon has been finding its niche as a tool for serious application
> developers, as opposed to a press-button publishing tool, which it has
> never been and will never be.
> 
> Two: my guess is that many dev@ subscribers could answer some users@
> questions very quickly, but sometimes we don't bother looking at the
> list, and some of us are probably not even subscribed there. It's a
> waste of energy, and has probably caused otherwise competent people to
> go away after not getting good enough answers.
> 
> Three: dev@ subscribers tend to use good messages subjects and [TOPIC
> MARKERS] in subject lines to make the lists easy to filter, visually or
> automatically. So I'm not worried about the increased traffic, we'll
> find a way to make it sortable by teaching our community about good
> subject lines or defining a few more [markers].  Okay, this is not
> really a *reason*, but it's needed for my argumentation ;-D
> 
> Four: for many subjects one does not know on which list to post, again a
> waste of energy as threads regulary bounce between the lists. We
> developers tend to discuss between ourselves things that are of general
> interest, without bothering to move to users@ as it's not "our home".
> 
> Five: having two lists, one for Highly Qualified Meritocratic Core
> Developers and another for Mere Users does not sound like the openness
> and flat structure that we're advocating (I'm being a bit provocative
> here, on purpose ;-)
> 
> Six; the closing down of the docs@ list has only been positive, by
> defragmenting the community w.r.t docs and allowing all developers to be
> informed of what's happening with the [docs] (hint: note the good use of
> the [marker]).
> 
> Seven: Having a single point of discussion will help us know our users
> better, this alone is worth its weight in bytes.
> 

You are trying to remedy the fact that many developers (not all of them)
don't look at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I say those developers need to change their
view/attitude towards user@ and realize that replying to a "HELP: No
pipeline matched blabla !!!" post benefits cocoon as much as (for
example) fleshing out the next gen container architecture.

Splitting up mailinglists works for other OS projects because either
1) they have a self sustaining user list with a lot of advanced users
willing to help out eg Spring forums
2) the developers *actively* help out on every post eg maven-users

A rough count shows that of the 200 threads in september, about 35 were
1-post threads ie remained unanswered.


Let's discuss this further at the Hackathon, I need to catch my train :-)


Jorg

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users cocoon.apache.org

[Joerg Heinicke]

Sylvain Wallez  apache.org> writes:

> > how about closing 
> > the users  list and having just one list for cocoon-related
> > discussions?
> >
> > So, WDYT?
> 
> Two: Cocoon-dev is scary for newbies, or even intermediate users. 
> Disruptive random thoughts, design discussions about the very deep guts 
> of the engine, etc. Some of my colleague, which I consider advanced 
> users sometimes tell me they don't understand what the heck I'm talking 
> about in some of my posts. If we want more people to come to Cocoon, 
> exposing them to the dev's foolish discussions will just make them turn 
> away.

That are exactly my thoughts. We even talked about splitting Cocoon 
GetTogether into two tracks for beginners and advanced users, but on the list 
we shall merge them together? Furthermore if you talk about prefixing the 
threads appropriately to get the threads separated again on the client also 
enables the possibility to ignore user threads and just read dev threads 
(though it is easier to switch to user threads coincidentally).

> Now you're right that some developers neglect users   (yeah, I'm in this 
> category). This used to be because of the huge traffic. In my 
> Thunderbird, users   is deep down in the lists I read through 
> news.gmane.org. That's a bad thing and I will now use a regular mail 
> subscription so that it sits just beside the dev   folder that I monitor 
> every 5 minutes. And I strongly invite other devs in the same situation 
> as me to do so.

And here we have the real problem you try to solve with your proposal, but IMO 
it can not work this way: the bad attitude towards the users list. But such a 
thing you can not enforce. It is a community thing.

Though I am one of those persons reading both lists regularly I don't like the 
idea of merging the lists.

Jörg

[Docs] Request for test-export from Daisy to Forrest

[Helma van der Linden]

Ross,

There is a considerable amount of documentation in the legacydocs in 
Daisy at cocoon.zones and although it is not finished yet, the 
navigation doc reflects about 80% of the current documentation.


So it would be nice if you could try your Daisy2Forrest app to see if 
things work out or if extra work (apart from the missing pages) needs to 
be done.


Thanks.

Bye, Helma

[GT2005] Buglisting?

[Arje Cahn]

Hi all,

Should we do the bugtable again at the hackaton? And is someone willing to 
printout the bugreports or should I arrange that?
(Bertrand...? I know you're busy..)




Kind regards,

Arjé Cahn

Hippo  

Oosteinde 11
1017WT Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Tel  +31 (0)20 5224466
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / www.hippo.nl
--

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Geert Josten]

Mark Leicester wrote:


Hi all,

When we discussed the issue of declining posts to the users list earlier 
this year (http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1755 - the trend was visible 
back then too), I suggested interviewing subscribers about "what they 
want, what they don't like, their level of expertise, etc.". At that 
point (in May) people were fairly cool on the idea (e.g. "no, thanks. I 
really don't see any problem in cocoon's social health."). Is this still 
the case? Or, might it be time to put a questionnaire together - perhaps 
like http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1774?


Cheers,
Mark


IMHO, it won't do any harm to do some interviewing/polling from time to time. Postpone conclusions 
and further action till afterwards. As long as you think it is worth the effort...


Cheers,
Geert

Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?

[Steven Noels]

On 03 Oct 2005, at 21:30, Antonio Gallardo wrote:

Great comment, Steven. I feel my self direct addressed with this 
statement.


I wonder why you should, really. Quite the opposite, actually.


Now, I know what this work means for other community members.


I think you're doing an ace job keeping up somebody else's promises. 
However, I really doubt whether it's "fair" that you do it.


The same kind of wonder I had when this thread started - as in "oh no, 
this is sooo easy and self-centered!".



--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought  Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Tuesday 04 October 2005 15:51, Geert Josten wrote:
> >   1. Rename the list "support@" or some similarly positive term.
> >
> >   2. Route all support@ mails to dev@ with a [SUPPORT] subject marker.
> > That keeps users who want to be protected from the RTs, wild dev
> > discussions and so on.
>
> +1 to this idea. Though, where should answers go?

The Reply-To goes to the support@/user@ list, and since it is forwarded to 
dev@ a local copy for the developers also is forwarded. Effectively, a 
crossposting of always from support@ to dev@, but not the other direction.

Just a thought, not sure if infrastructure@ would be too happy about it 
either.

Cheers
Niclas

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Mark Leicester]

Hi all,

When we discussed the issue of declining posts to the users list 
earlier this year (http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1755 - the trend 
was visible back then too), I suggested interviewing subscribers about 
"what they want, what they don't like, their level of expertise, etc.". 
At that point (in May) people were fairly cool on the idea (e.g. "no, 
thanks. I really don't see any problem in cocoon's social health."). Is 
this still the case? Or, might it be time to put a questionnaire 
together - perhaps like http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1774?


Cheers,
Mark

On 3 Oct 2005, at 20:20, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

In these days of wild thoughts, here's another one: how about closing 
the users@ list and having just one list for cocoon-related 
discussions?


I think I have a few good reasons for this:

One: The line between cocoon users and developers is fairly thin, it 
is not as in Open Office for example, where most users do not even 
know what the C language is. Our users are more and more competent 
software developers who would often have interesting things to say if 
they were around, and might like this place more if they felt more 
involved. Cocoon has been finding its niche as a tool for serious 
application developers, as opposed to a press-button publishing tool, 
which it has never been and will never be.


Two: my guess is that many dev@ subscribers could answer some users@ 
questions very quickly, but sometimes we don't bother looking at the 
list, and some of us are probably not even subscribed there. It's a 
waste of energy, and has probably caused otherwise competent people to 
go away after not getting good enough answers.


Three: dev@ subscribers tend to use good messages subjects and [TOPIC 
MARKERS] in subject lines to make the lists easy to filter, visually 
or automatically. So I'm not worried about the increased traffic, 
we'll find a way to make it sortable by teaching our community about 
good subject lines or defining a few more [markers].  Okay, this is 
not really a *reason*, but it's needed for my argumentation ;-D


Four: for many subjects one does not know on which list to post, again 
a waste of energy as threads regulary bounce between the lists. We 
developers tend to discuss between ourselves things that are of 
general interest, without bothering to move to users@ as it's not "our 
home".


Five: having two lists, one for Highly Qualified Meritocratic Core 
Developers and another for Mere Users does not sound like the openness 
and flat structure that we're advocating (I'm being a bit provocative 
here, on purpose ;-)


Six; the closing down of the docs@ list has only been positive, by 
defragmenting the community w.r.t docs and allowing all developers to 
be informed of what's happening with the [docs] (hint: note the good 
use of the [marker]).


Seven: Having a single point of discussion will help us know our users 
better, this alone is worth its weight in bytes.


So, WDYT?

-Bertrand

Re: cocoon.getComponent returns a proxy

[Upayavira]

Jörg Heinicke wrote:
How do I stop the component manager offering me a proxy and force it to 
give me the object itself?



Maybe this one: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11153970592&r=1&w=4 ??


Strange, but it works. Implementing Component made it work. Presumably 
that doesn't matter in Cocoon 2.2?


Regards, Upayavira

Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org

[Geert Josten]

Hi,

I'm mainly active on the users list, but being a full-time developer I am also monitoring the dev 
mailing list, just to keep my eyes open for new interesting features..


I do think that the feedback on the users list is rather low. Traffic on that list is usually much 
lower on the users list than on the dev list. So I would like to encourage either more dev people to 
monitor the users list, or to do some merging of some kind.


Just as we speak, a message called "multiple xpaths" has been reposted on the dev list by someone 
who was not satisfied with the response on the users list. And more important, I am very sure that 
other members on the users list are interested in answers from dev people as well.


Too bad you cannot cross-post between the two lists, that alone could have made 
things easier.

I am also against "user" list. It has a degenerating tone to it, and the fact 
that many developers are not subscribed to user@ seems to promote that notion 
further.


My suggestion;

  1. Rename the list "support@" or some similarly positive term.

  2. Route all support@ mails to dev@ with a [SUPPORT] subject marker. That 
 keeps users who want to be protected from the RTs, wild dev discussions

 and so on.


+1 to this idea. Though, where should answers go?

Cheers,
Geert

Re: including Zip Source within Cocoon

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Le 4 oct. 05, à 09:21, Michael Wechner a écrit :

...one could also imagine
an OpenDocument block where the ZipSource would be part of it.
If people like it and other usecases would show up, then we could
move it to the core at some later stage.

Makes sense?..


IMHO, yes if the block includes samples to demonstrate the ZipSource.

-Bertrand


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: including Zip Source within Cocoon

[Michael Wechner]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:


Le 30 sept. 05, à 15:30, Michael Wechner a écrit :

...I would like to suggest that we put these two classes (ZipSource 
and ZipSourceFactory) back into Cocoon (2.1.X branch)...



Are you thinking of adding them to the core?
I think they could go there, it's not much code and certainly useful.

If you add them to the core (assuming there's no objection from others),



I would suggest to add them to the core, but one could also imagine
an OpenDocument block where the ZipSource would be part of it.
If people like it and other usecases would show up, then we could
move it to the core at some later stage.

Makes sense?

Michi

please do the same in the trunk, or at least mention them in 
trunk/TO-SYNC-FROM-BRANCH.txt


-Bertran
d




--
Michael Wechner
Wyona  -   Open Source Content Management   -Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com  http://lenya.apache.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: cocoon.getComponent returns a proxy

[Jörg Heinicke]

> How do I stop the component manager offering me a proxy and force it to 
> give me the object itself?

Maybe this one: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11153970592&r=1&w=4 ??

Jörg

-- 
5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++