Re: New skin for web site
David Crossley wrote: hepabolu wrote: BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) The main trouble that i see, is that it puts each note out-of-context with the main page, i.e. not sure what the warning refers to. Thanks David, I meant to say that, but it got lost in the last few days work. I also feel the context of the note/waring/fixme has been lost, i.e. it is no longer attached to the paragraph that it followed. Otherwise great. Thanks for your excellent work. +1 Ross
Re: New skin for web site
Ross Gardler wrote: David Crossley wrote: hepabolu wrote: BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) The main trouble that i see, is that it puts each note out-of-context with the main page, i.e. not sure what the warning refers to. Thanks David, I meant to say that, but it got lost in the last few days work. I also feel the context of the note/waring/fixme has been lost, i.e. it is no longer attached to the paragraph that it followed. I know, I realised that too, but OTOH usually people will skim pages for information. Notes/warnings/fixme-s will stand out and will probably read out of context anyway. So I'd rather go for clear information in such a box than depending on the context of the box. Much like the rule that in a paragraph you should not refer to the title but include it in the sentence. On subsequent reads these boxes are only in the way of the natural flow of the information and can cause irritation. Otherwise great. Thanks for your excellent work. +1 Thanks. It was great fun to do. Bye, Helma
Re: New skin for web site
hepabolu wrote: BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) The main trouble that i see, is that it puts each note out-of-context with the main page, i.e. not sure what the warning refers to. Otherwise great. Thanks for your excellent work. -David
Re: New skin for web site
hepabolu wrote: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hepabolu/cocoondocsskin/index.html and http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hepabolu/cocoondocsskin/samples/sample.html I'll send Ross the set of files offlist so he can figure out what to change to integrate it in Forrest. Great stuff Helma. I've attached your zip to an Issue in the Forrest Jira. I don't have the time to integrate it right now, but someone (or I) will soon. http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-817 Ross
Re: New skin for web site
* hepabolu: BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) I'm sure these admonitions could be improved. I would recommend using icons, like these: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=docbook Also available here: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gimp-help-2/images/ -- Jean-Baptiste Quenot http://caraldi.com/jbq/
Re: New skin for web site
Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote: * hepabolu: BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) I'm sure these admonitions could be improved. I would recommend using icons, like these: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=docbook Also available here: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gimp-help-2/images/ Under wich License are being distributed this icons? Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo.
Re: New skin for web site
Hi guys, I've finally been able to work on this some more. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hepabolu/cocoondocsskin/index.html and /samples/samples.html show some changes I've made after your feedback. Reinhard Poetz wrote: hmmm, the search box looks better at the bottom, but it might disappear at longer menus. Second thing is that defacto standard for search boxes is the top right area. I've chosen to keep it at the top to keep it visible. Top right might be defacto, but the Cocoon logo is there already, so a search box would clutter things. - I like the new design, it's lightweight and focuses on the content Thanks. - I would only change the bullet points in the menu (black circles) by replacing them with light blue squares (same blue as the background of the search box). That would be too light, so I've chosen the color of the headers. - IMO we shouldn't change the Cocoon logo but keep the current one. Makes sense, so I've done that, but I don't like the blue color. I've tried changing the color, but I don't have the proper software so it came out ugly. Changing the colors of the rest of the page didn't come out right either, so basically I think we need to change the blue color in the Cocoon logo. - I would leave more space above a headline than below. A headline should be connected with the text that belongs to it. Done that, looks better so I've kept it. ;-) Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote: Looks nice! Much more elegant than the current site, more simple, especially the menu. Much easier to read, the font on your new skin is bigger and better. Thanks. Difficult to tell what is the best option. I prefer search at the top, and it would be worth to insert the Google logo to indicate that it is a Google search. It's a good idea to indicate it's a Google search, so I've added a little line which is a link to Google. better. And maybe replacing « Apache Software Foundation » with « Apache Cocoon » would clearly indicate what the site is talking about. In short, cocoon-project-logo.png is more appropriate than group-logo.gif. Right. I wasn't able to recreate the image with the Cocoon title and link, so I decided to mimick it with standard HTML and CSS. I like it so far, but could put in some more work to make it better, although IE is the limiting factor here. Ross Gardler wrote: - I added some extra HTML to make the accessibility easier and the unstyled version clearer. Hmmm... depends on exactly what you have done. We have a great deal of control over the structural elements of the page (div... etc.) and over the decorations of the page (navigation for example) but very little control over the HTML used in the content since that is managed by Daisy. True, but if you disable CSS you can see what I've done. I've basically added a skip navigation link at the top and an anchor and hr/ at the end of the navigation, just before the actual content. I think you add the navigation anyway, since it's not part of the Daisy page. - XHTML 1.0 Strict doesn't allow '+' in the anchor names, at least according to Tidy. I've changed them to underscores. Depends on what these anchor names are, if they are manually entered into the src docs then it is editor error on the part of the sample files used to generate this sample site. If they are auto generated by Forrest we can, of course change this. I'll have to check with the Forrest devs on why we use a '+' I'm sorry I haven't kept a log of what I've done and to simplify the work I've done a pretty print on all HTML files and my diff tools are too limited to work around this. BTW. The abstract div ended up as div class=abstract/ when it's empty. This gives strange results (all subsequent text is assumed to be part of the div), so I've had to add the end tag. I think this is a Cocoon bug (or at least one of the components), because I have this problem too in my site. So I'd be very happy if you could solve this once and for all and let me know. ;-) Currently there is one strange issue left: when you look at the nav section of the samples page (I've added extra index items for clarity) the list bullet should be left of the SUBDIR heading. This is true for Safari and Firefox but in IE6 it's vertically centered next to the list. I'll go on a hunt to fix this, in the meantime the pages are up for review and feedback. BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) Bye, Helma
Re: New skin for web site
[Coming in late on this discussion... please ignore if white noise] One of my peeves is lack of a printable page - if you are still working on this site, please add a coat-print.css, where areas such the left-hand menu will be disabled for printing (and maybe make the main text serif... but that's a more debatable choice!) Thanks! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2006/02/10 01:09:37 AM Hi guys, I've finally been able to work on this some more. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hepabolu/cocoondocsskin/index.html and /samples/samples.html show some changes I've made after your feedback. Reinhard Poetz wrote: hmmm, the search box looks better at the bottom, but it might disappear at longer menus. Second thing is that defacto standard for search boxes is the top right area. I've chosen to keep it at the top to keep it visible. Top right might be defacto, but the Cocoon logo is there already, so a search box would clutter things. - I like the new design, it's lightweight and focuses on the content Thanks. - I would only change the bullet points in the menu (black circles) by replacing them with light blue squares (same blue as the background of the search box). That would be too light, so I've chosen the color of the headers. - IMO we shouldn't change the Cocoon logo but keep the current one. Makes sense, so I've done that, but I don't like the blue color. I've tried changing the color, but I don't have the proper software so it came out ugly. Changing the colors of the rest of the page didn't come out right either, so basically I think we need to change the blue color in the Cocoon logo. - I would leave more space above a headline than below. A headline should be connected with the text that belongs to it. Done that, looks better so I've kept it. ;-) Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote: Looks nice! Much more elegant than the current site, more simple, especially the menu. Much easier to read, the font on your new skin is bigger and better. Thanks. Difficult to tell what is the best option. I prefer search at the top, and it would be worth to insert the Google logo to indicate that it is a Google search. It's a good idea to indicate it's a Google search, so I've added a little line which is a link to Google. better. And maybe replacing « Apache Software Foundation » with « Apache Cocoon » would clearly indicate what the site is talking about. In short, cocoon-project-logo.png is more appropriate than group-logo.gif. Right. I wasn't able to recreate the image with the Cocoon title and link, so I decided to mimick it with standard HTML and CSS. I like it so far, but could put in some more work to make it better, although IE is the limiting factor here. Ross Gardler wrote: - I added some extra HTML to make the accessibility easier and the unstyled version clearer. Hmmm... depends on exactly what you have done. We have a great deal of control over the structural elements of the page (div... etc.) and over the decorations of the page (navigation for example) but very little control over the HTML used in the content since that is managed by Daisy. True, but if you disable CSS you can see what I've done. I've basically added a skip navigation link at the top and an anchor and hr/ at the end of the navigation, just before the actual content. I think you add the navigation anyway, since it's not part of the Daisy page. - XHTML 1.0 Strict doesn't allow '+' in the anchor names, at least according to Tidy. I've changed them to underscores. Depends on what these anchor names are, if they are manually entered into the src docs then it is editor error on the part of the sample files used to generate this sample site. If they are auto generated by Forrest we can, of course change this. I'll have to check with the Forrest devs on why we use a '+' I'm sorry I haven't kept a log of what I've done and to simplify the work I've done a pretty print on all HTML files and my diff tools are too limited to work around this. BTW. The abstract div ended up as div class=abstract/ when it's empty. This gives strange results (all subsequent text is assumed to be part of the div), so I've had to add the end tag. I think this is a Cocoon bug (or at least one of the components), because I have this problem too in my site. So I'd be very happy if you could solve this once and for all and let me know. ;-) Currently there is one strange issue left: when you look at the nav section of the samples page (I've added extra index items for clarity) the list bullet should be left of the SUBDIR heading. This is true for Safari and Firefox but in IE6 it's vertically centered next to the list. I'll go on a hunt to fix this, in the meantime the pages are up for review and feedback. BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See samples page) Bye, Helma -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and conditions and e-mail legal notice.
Re: New skin for web site
* hepabolu: I've worked out something Looks nice! Much more elegant than the current site, more simple, especially the menu. Much easier to read, the font on your new skin is bigger and better. - I can't make up my mind whether the search box should be at the top of the nav menu (directly visible and at hand) or at the end (gives a nice closure to the menu), so both versions of the samples have it at different locations. Difficult to tell what is the best option. I prefer search at the top, and it would be worth to insert the Google logo to indicate that it is a Google search. However the Cocoon logo on the upper-right corner has a different color than the headings. Maybe choosing the same color would be better. And maybe replacing « Apache Software Foundation » with « Apache Cocoon » would clearly indicate what the site is talking about. In short, cocoon-project-logo.png is more appropriate than group-logo.gif. Thanks, -- Jean-Baptiste Quenot http://caraldi.com/jbq/
Re: New skin for web site
hepabolu wrote: Ross Gardler wrote: hepabolu wrote: Ross Gardler wrote: 2) are there any web designers here willing to work on the skin (you don't need to learn how to get it into Forrest at first, just provide CSS patches and I'll integrate with Forrest for you - you'll quickly see how it is done) ... If you could provide me the end result (i.e. some HTML pages and the resources like images and CSS), I'll give it a go. I've worked out something. It is visible here: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/hepabolu/cocoondocsskin/index.html This looks really nice. When you have received feedback and are ready send me the updated files and I'll put it into a theme for Forrest so that we can generate the Cocoon docs on the staging server using them and try and get wider comment from the list. Some remarks: - I can't make up my mind whether the search box should be at the top of the nav menu (directly visible and at hand) or at the end (gives a nice closure to the menu), so both versions of the samples have it at different locations. At the end looks better, but with a long menu will disappear of the screen. - I added some extra HTML to make the accessibility easier and the unstyled version clearer. Hmmm... depends on exactly what you have done. We have a great deal of control over the structural elements of the page (div... etc.) and over the decorations of the page (navigation for example) but very little control over the HTML used in the content since that is managed by Daisy. - I removed all nested a href tags. This seems like a bug: almost all links were added twice, one nested in the other. Interesting, we (Forrest) recently had a report of a strange bug that related to duplicate anchors. I'll have to look into this, I agree it is a bug. - XHTML 1.0 Strict doesn't allow '+' in the anchor names, at least according to Tidy. I've changed them to underscores. Depends on what these anchor names are, if they are manually entered into the src docs then it is editor error on the part of the sample files used to generate this sample site. If they are auto generated by Forrest we can, of course change this. I'll have to check with the Forrest devs on why we use a '+' - I've split the CSS files in layout, nav and the rest. This way it is easier to focus on layout only and nav only. They are imported in the coat.css file, so there is still only one CSS file to include. I see no problem with Forrest respecting this. Ross
New skin for web site
When we were doing the work to generate the Docs from Daisy some people showed an interest in developing a new skin for the Cocoon site. Those people may be interested to know that I recently developed a skin to mimic the look and feel at http://www.apache.org This is a much simpler skin, much cleaner and much easier to modify. It is *not* complete. I am not a CSS expert and I have not done any checks in different browsers. But it's a good start I created two versions of this skin, one for the old Forrest skins system and one for the upcoming themes system. The theme is more complete and, is without a doubt, easier to customise. But it is also using code that is less mature (it is unlikely to be in the next Forrest release). This prompts two questions: 1) Should I create an instance in the Forrest Zone that builds the 2.2 docs using this new ASF theme so that it can be used as a base for a new Cocoon theme. 2) are there any web designers here willing to work on the skin (you don't need to learn how to get it into Forrest at first, just provide CSS patches and I'll integrate with Forrest for you - you'll quickly see how it is done) NOTE: since this uses in development code it is likely that the build will break on occasion. I doubt this is a problem for 2.2 docs, but if it is a concern we can use the existing skinning system rather than the dispatcher. Personally I would prefer to use the dispatcher as it is easier to customise and will provide useful feedback for the Forrest devs. It is likely the dispatcher will be ready for release at around the same time as Cocoon 2.2 (I'm not sure how can I possibly know that in Open Source projects though) Ross
Re: New skin for web site
Ross Gardler wrote: 2) are there any web designers here willing to work on the skin (you don't need to learn how to get it into Forrest at first, just provide CSS patches and I'll integrate with Forrest for you - you'll quickly see how it is done) I'm not a graphics designer (i.e. my Photoshop skills are very limited), but I have a good knowledge of CSS and many of the various browser peculiarities. I'd love to get my hands on this. If you could provide me the end result (i.e. some HTML pages and the resources like images and CSS), I'll give it a go. Bye, Helma
