Re: VP Conferences changes
Dear Rich, With reminiscing of helping out to organize ApacheCon Asia 2006 Asia ( Sri Lanka ), my first ever ApacheConf experience, let me write this you . Your dedication, guidance and tireless efforts have made a profound impact on Apache community . Apache conferences have flourished and have become not just events but vibrant gathering of like-minded individuals passionate about Apache software . Your commitment to fostering the an inclusive and environment has created an atmosphere where participants are formed and knowledge is shared . Thank you for outstanding services as the VP of conferences. Cheers, Kanchana On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 10:18 AM Dave Fisher wrote: > > > > On Nov 8, 2023, at 8:06 AM, Owen Rubel wrote: > > > > "So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of > institutionalisation > > or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- > lets > > just make sure together that these conferences are what we want." > > > > I kind of figured that was the point of speaking up; to let you know how > > vendor based conferences end up pushing out engineers. > > You are not “wrong”, but within the ASF ecosystem this large problem > already exists with some of our projects having vendor run “Summits”. It’s > a different problem than who is managing Community over Code production. > It’s a community health problem and an example of Foundation educational > and governance improvements. > > How can ComDev help ASF PMCs improve on that existing, very complex, and > thorny issue? > > Best, > Dave > > > > > Owen Rubel > > oru...@gmail.com > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 8:04 AM Dirk-Willem van Gulik < > di...@webweaving.org> > > wrote: > > > >> On 8 Nov 2023, at 13:03, Rich Bowen wrote: > >> > >>> Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The > >>> responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > >> communication > >>> around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as > it > >>> has for many years. > >> > >> Thanks for many years of undying service and making this event a > community > >> one ! > >>> > >>> It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > >> which, > >>> of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > >> > >> Amen to that. And as to those that worry about this marketing `takeover' > >> -- in the end of the day - the ASF, as a fully volunteer ran > organisation, > >> relies on us, as individuals, to strike that balance that makes these > >> conferences so attractive to us volunteers & our community. We, > volunteers > >> vote with our feet ! > >> > >> So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of > institutionalisation > >> or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- > lets > >> just make sure together that these conferences are what we want. > >> > >> :) > >> > >> Dw. > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >> > >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: [PR] speaker coaching (comdev-site)
rbowen commented on code in PR #136: URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/136#discussion_r1387170991 ## source/speakers/_index.md: ## @@ -50,3 +64,4 @@ at Apache), please email us and suggest we include your slides. [6]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ [7]: slides.html [8]: themes + [9]: https://lists.apache.org/list?commun...@apache.org Review Comment: Thanks. Fixed. -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [PR] correct URL for mailing list (comdev-site)
rbowen merged PR #140: URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/140 -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
[PR] correct URL for mailing list (comdev-site)
rbowen opened a new pull request, #140: URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/140 (no comment) -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [PR] speaker coaching (comdev-site)
swapnilmmane commented on code in PR #136: URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/136#discussion_r1387104942 ## source/speakers/_index.md: ## @@ -50,3 +64,4 @@ at Apache), please email us and suggest we include your slides. [6]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ [7]: slides.html [8]: themes + [9]: https://lists.apache.org/list?commun...@apache.org Review Comment: Thank you @rbowen for adding this section. A quick one, should we mention `https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@community.apache.org` list instead of `https://lists.apache.org/list?commun...@apache.org`. I am assuming it's a typo but just want to make sure. -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [PR] speaker coaching (comdev-site)
swapnilmmane commented on code in PR #136: URL: https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/136#discussion_r1387104942 ## source/speakers/_index.md: ## @@ -50,3 +64,4 @@ at Apache), please email us and suggest we include your slides. [6]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ [7]: slides.html [8]: themes + [9]: https://lists.apache.org/list?commun...@apache.org Review Comment: Thank you @rbowen for adding this section. A quick one, should we mention https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@community.apache.org list instead of https://lists.apache.org/list?commun...@apache.org. I am assuming it's a typo but just want to make sure. -- This is an automated message from the Apache Git Service. To respond to the message, please log on to GitHub and use the URL above to go to the specific comment. To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For queries about this service, please contact Infrastructure at: us...@infra.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: VP Conferences changes
> On Nov 8, 2023, at 8:06 AM, Owen Rubel wrote: > > "So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of institutionalisation > or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- lets > just make sure together that these conferences are what we want." > > I kind of figured that was the point of speaking up; to let you know how > vendor based conferences end up pushing out engineers. You are not “wrong”, but within the ASF ecosystem this large problem already exists with some of our projects having vendor run “Summits”. It’s a different problem than who is managing Community over Code production. It’s a community health problem and an example of Foundation educational and governance improvements. How can ComDev help ASF PMCs improve on that existing, very complex, and thorny issue? Best, Dave > > Owen Rubel > oru...@gmail.com > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 8:04 AM Dirk-Willem van Gulik > wrote: > >> On 8 Nov 2023, at 13:03, Rich Bowen wrote: >> >>> Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The >>> responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but >> communication >>> around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it >>> has for many years. >> >> Thanks for many years of undying service and making this event a community >> one ! >>> >>> It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, >> which, >>> of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. >> >> Amen to that. And as to those that worry about this marketing `takeover' >> -- in the end of the day - the ASF, as a fully volunteer ran organisation, >> relies on us, as individuals, to strike that balance that makes these >> conferences so attractive to us volunteers & our community. We, volunteers >> vote with our feet ! >> >> So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of institutionalisation >> or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- lets >> just make sure together that these conferences are what we want. >> >> :) >> >> Dw. >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: VP Conferences changes
"So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of institutionalisation or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- lets just make sure together that these conferences are what we want." I kind of figured that was the point of speaking up; to let you know how vendor based conferences end up pushing out engineers. Owen Rubel oru...@gmail.com On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 8:04 AM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > On 8 Nov 2023, at 13:03, Rich Bowen wrote: > > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The > > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > communication > > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it > > has for many years. > > Thanks for many years of undying service and making this event a community > one ! > > > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > which, > > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > Amen to that. And as to those that worry about this marketing `takeover' > -- in the end of the day - the ASF, as a fully volunteer ran organisation, > relies on us, as individuals, to strike that balance that makes these > conferences so attractive to us volunteers & our community. We, volunteers > vote with our feet ! > > So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of institutionalisation > or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- lets > just make sure together that these conferences are what we want. > > :) > > Dw. > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: VP Conferences changes
On 8 Nov 2023, at 13:03, Rich Bowen wrote: > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but communication > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it > has for many years. Thanks for many years of undying service and making this event a community one ! > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, which, > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. Amen to that. And as to those that worry about this marketing `takeover' -- in the end of the day - the ASF, as a fully volunteer ran organisation, relies on us, as individuals, to strike that balance that makes these conferences so attractive to us volunteers & our community. We, volunteers vote with our feet ! So rather than worry about these sort if artefacts of institutionalisation or what bad KPIs \& wrong incentives can drive in a corporate world -- lets just make sure together that these conferences are what we want. :) Dw. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: VP Conferences changes
Hi Rich, Thank you for your decade plus work as VP, Conferences. In my experience you’ve done tremendous work and yet I appreciate your choosing your focus to be here on Community. For those criticizing Rich’s personal decision as “bad” because “sales”. Please volunteer as a track chair. I was one and due to the way the selection process was run it was much harder to know who the speakers were. I’m not sure whether or not this helps with “vendors”. Regardless, volunteers are able to help if they are constructive. Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 8, 2023, at 4:04 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but communication > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it > has for many years. > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, which, > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > Rich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: VP Conferences changes
Well Ed, Feel free to take a look at any conference that has focused on sales/marketing. Vendors take over ALL TALKS. I used to speak at SpringOne, APIDays, APIWorld and others and the only way I get to speak these days is through 'pay-to-play'; they literally tell me that if I pay to be a vendor, they would gladly have me as a speaker. So feel free to call it conjecture but I will be more than happy to resend this email to the entire Apache community in 4 years time with your comments. Owen Rubel oru...@gmail.com On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 7:03 AM Ed Mangini wrote: > That's an assumption and conjecture. > > If it's a concern of yours, there are more productive ways to raise the > issue and socialize avenues to protect the interests you're advocating for. > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 10:00 Owen Rubel wrote: > > > Sales and marketing go hand in hand; marketing promotes sales and sales > > uses marketing materials to get sales. It is a mutually > > beneficial relationship. > > > > True events are about messaging BUT conferences are also about education. > > > > Too many conferences have gone down the route of merely pandering to > > vendors only and ignoring engineers. > > > > Once you hand off to sales/marketing, thats the final straw. There is no > > turning back. ApacheCon becomes purely about vendor sales/marketing, not > > engineering > > > > Owen Rubel > > oru...@gmail.com > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 6:45 AM wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 2023-11-08 at 06:33 -0800, Owen Rubel wrote: > > > > Weak sauce. Once marketing takes over, conference talks become merely > > > > part > > > > of SALES. > > > > > > > > ApacheCon has been about learning... not SALES and MARKETING. > > > > > > I'm honestly torn as to whether this troll-y message merits a response. > > > > > > I'd expect someone with your deep experience in tech (This > > > you? https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-rubel-531197228/) to understand > > > that sales and marketing are fundamentally different things. > > > > > > Events are fundamentally about *messaging* which is what marketing is > > > about. Marketing has been an equal partner in the production of this > > > event since the first one in 1998. > > > > > > We don't have products, and thus we have no sales. > > > > > > As always, you are more than welcome to come participate in the > > > planning activities if you wish to shape that messaging. > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:04 AM Rich Bowen > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. > > > > > The > > > > > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > > > > > communication > > > > > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, > > > > > as it > > > > > has for many years. > > > > > > > > > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > > > > > which, > > > > > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > > > > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > > > > > >
Re: VP Conferences changes
That's an assumption and conjecture. If it's a concern of yours, there are more productive ways to raise the issue and socialize avenues to protect the interests you're advocating for. On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 10:00 Owen Rubel wrote: > Sales and marketing go hand in hand; marketing promotes sales and sales > uses marketing materials to get sales. It is a mutually > beneficial relationship. > > True events are about messaging BUT conferences are also about education. > > Too many conferences have gone down the route of merely pandering to > vendors only and ignoring engineers. > > Once you hand off to sales/marketing, thats the final straw. There is no > turning back. ApacheCon becomes purely about vendor sales/marketing, not > engineering > > Owen Rubel > oru...@gmail.com > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 6:45 AM wrote: > > > On Wed, 2023-11-08 at 06:33 -0800, Owen Rubel wrote: > > > Weak sauce. Once marketing takes over, conference talks become merely > > > part > > > of SALES. > > > > > > ApacheCon has been about learning... not SALES and MARKETING. > > > > I'm honestly torn as to whether this troll-y message merits a response. > > > > I'd expect someone with your deep experience in tech (This > > you? https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-rubel-531197228/) to understand > > that sales and marketing are fundamentally different things. > > > > Events are fundamentally about *messaging* which is what marketing is > > about. Marketing has been an equal partner in the production of this > > event since the first one in 1998. > > > > We don't have products, and thus we have no sales. > > > > As always, you are more than welcome to come participate in the > > planning activities if you wish to shape that messaging. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:04 AM Rich Bowen wrote: > > > > > > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. > > > > The > > > > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > > > > communication > > > > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, > > > > as it > > > > has for many years. > > > > > > > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > > > > which, > > > > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > >
Re: VP Conferences changes
Sales and marketing go hand in hand; marketing promotes sales and sales uses marketing materials to get sales. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. True events are about messaging BUT conferences are also about education. Too many conferences have gone down the route of merely pandering to vendors only and ignoring engineers. Once you hand off to sales/marketing, thats the final straw. There is no turning back. ApacheCon becomes purely about vendor sales/marketing, not engineering Owen Rubel oru...@gmail.com On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 6:45 AM wrote: > On Wed, 2023-11-08 at 06:33 -0800, Owen Rubel wrote: > > Weak sauce. Once marketing takes over, conference talks become merely > > part > > of SALES. > > > > ApacheCon has been about learning... not SALES and MARKETING. > > I'm honestly torn as to whether this troll-y message merits a response. > > I'd expect someone with your deep experience in tech (This > you? https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-rubel-531197228/) to understand > that sales and marketing are fundamentally different things. > > Events are fundamentally about *messaging* which is what marketing is > about. Marketing has been an equal partner in the production of this > event since the first one in 1998. > > We don't have products, and thus we have no sales. > > As always, you are more than welcome to come participate in the > planning activities if you wish to shape that messaging. > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:04 AM Rich Bowen wrote: > > > > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. > > > The > > > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > > > communication > > > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, > > > as it > > > has for many years. > > > > > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > > > which, > > > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: VP Conferences changes
On Wed, 2023-11-08 at 06:33 -0800, Owen Rubel wrote: > Weak sauce. Once marketing takes over, conference talks become merely > part > of SALES. > > ApacheCon has been about learning... not SALES and MARKETING. I'm honestly torn as to whether this troll-y message merits a response. I'd expect someone with your deep experience in tech (This you? https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-rubel-531197228/) to understand that sales and marketing are fundamentally different things. Events are fundamentally about *messaging* which is what marketing is about. Marketing has been an equal partner in the production of this event since the first one in 1998. We don't have products, and thus we have no sales. As always, you are more than welcome to come participate in the planning activities if you wish to shape that messaging. > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:04 AM Rich Bowen wrote: > > > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. > > The > > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but > > communication > > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, > > as it > > has for many years. > > > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, > > which, > > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > > > Rich > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: VP Conferences changes
Weak sauce. Once marketing takes over, conference talks become merely part of SALES. ApacheCon has been about learning... not SALES and MARKETING. Owen Rubel oru...@gmail.com On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 4:04 AM Rich Bowen wrote: > Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The > responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but communication > around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it > has for many years. > > It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, which, > of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. > > Rich >
VP Conferences changes
Fyi, effective yesterday, I have stepped down as VP conferences. The responsibility for that role has passed to VP marketing, but communication around conferences will still happen on the planners mailing list, as it has for many years. It's my hope to get a little more engaged on the side of the house, which, of course, I've been trying to do for the last couple of years. Rich
