Re: Dev model questions (Was Re: ASF Slack for community?)

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 7/17/2020 11:44 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:



On 7/17/20 2:37 PM, Armstrong Foundjem wrote:

Hello ASF community members:
I am a research student on FOSS, and currently, I am looking into the 
Apache ecosystem to understand the release mechanisms that ASF 
projects follow/use. However, it’s not trivial to understand without 
the help of expects like you in the community.


Please, can you help me out answer the following questions?

1. What is the release cycle of Apache projects (how many times a year 
does ASF releases a new version of it’s products)?


Each project makes its own decisions on this.


To expand a little on this, each project has a Project Management 
Committee. The decisions you are asking about are made for each project 
by its PMC.


The central organization is mainly concerned with providing some 
infrastructure, a non-profit framework, and ensuring each project has a 
healthy community with a functioning PMC to make its decisions.


If you want to understand ASF better, I suggest picking a few projects 
that interest you and, for each PROJECT_NAME, subscribing to 
dev@PROJECT_NAME.apache.org. There you will see the project in action.




2. What release model / release process do projects follow? Are these 
models/process very strict or are they flexible for different projects 
to do things they own way?


Each project makes its own decisions on this.

3. Are ASF projects inter-dependent to each other during development 
cycle of each project is completely unique in following it’s own road 
map?


Each project makes its own decisions on this. There are some projects 
that are interdependent, but it's not widespread.




Thank you for your time in answering these questions.

Best regards,
Armstrong Foundjem,
Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, Canada

On Jul 17, 2020, at 10:48, Austin Bennett 
 wrote:


Thanks, Julian,

Ultimately, my question comes down to: is it OK to point people 
interested

in events for specific (in this case Beam) events to the communication
platform used by the wider asf community.  I figure it is ideal to 
expand
the overall Apache tent/community.  Though there are certainly 
tradeoffs.


Unless needed, the question of which platform for the foundation to use
seems a separate discussion.

Cheers,
Austin




On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Julian Foad  
wrote:



On behalf of FOSS fans everywhere: please seriously consider using
[Matrix], the Open federated standard system.  It's perfect for this
sort of community, with bridges to Slack and IRC and many other 
systems.

  In the last two years Matrix has leapt ahead of other contenders like
XMPP and is becoming the Open system of choice adopted by organisations
from Mozilla to universities and governments.

It's a great platform for integrating the chat side, and even the
presentation side through Jitsi, of online events.  The matrix devs do
it and wrote a blog post describing how:
https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events

Before any of us risks pushing another FOSS community into the
proprietary silo trap, let's pause and consider how we all would in 
fact

be paying for it if it's "free as in beer".  I've been watching this
space since five years ago when the FOSS alternatives were weak, and 
now

I'm really excited to see that, with the overwhelming global need for
such a thing, Matrix has grown strong and is accelerating rapidly.

I would strongly encourage the ASF membership to deploy their own 
Matrix

server ASAP as it's the perfect fit for this sort of organization.  I
run a personal Matrix server and benefit from modern multi-device
single-app access to all my IRC messaging (via a public bridge), all my
WhatsApp messaging (via a private bridge), some private notes like
diaries, as well as federated native Matrix messaging.

I can give more detailed advice and put you in touch with specific
contacts.

- Julian


See:

* https://matrix.org -- for an introduction to Matrix

* https://matrix.org/docs/guides/running-online-events -- see above

* https://element.io/blog/welcome-to-element/ -- for an introduction to
the top company/brand of Matrix services and apps (a bit like how 
Redhat

is to Linux)

* https://sifted.eu/articles/element-germany-deal/ -- news about big
government deployments of Matrix

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Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:

Hello folks,

Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now
to get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second 
contribution period.


Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments
were valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.

Here is the meeting minutes:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey

 If you have any question or comments, please let us know.


The minutes say:


We decided on not having ethnic minority in the question, but instead
ask about the place of birth. As the place of birth might have bigger
implications on how contributors face barriers/ perception issues.


Where I live, in San Diego county, life is significantly different 
depending on ethnicity. For example, people who appear to be Latinx seem 
to be more likely to be questioned at Customs and Border Protection 
checkpoints.


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Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:

Hello folks,

Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now to
get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
contribution period.

Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments were
valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.

Here is the meeting minutes:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey

If you have any question or comments, please let us know.


I don't doubt the people involved were working very hard, but I find the 
process troubling, and maybe there could have been more workers 
available to share the load if things had been done in a different order.


I have received e-mails that appear to me to be final disposition of my 
comments on the survey, with no copy to the mailing list and before the 
meeting minutes were sent. The comments in question were not mentioned 
in the minutes. That means final decisions are being made with no 
opportunity for those who were not in the meeting to express their opinions.


After a subset of a PMC has been involved in face-to-face or phone 
discussions, usually the next thing to happen, before making final 
decisions and communicating them, is to bring the rest of the committee 
up to speed by posting the minutes on the mailing list and continuing 
the discussion there. Final decisions come after mailing list 
discussion. I realize D&I is not a PMC, but this is a situation in which 
I think it would have been better to follow a procedure that is designed 
to avoid excluding people based on what time of day they are available.



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Re: New board report wizard, feedback welcome!

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 8/1/2019 11:32 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 8/1/19 6:23 PM, Joan Touzet wrote:



I've seen wizards that would present all the info on a single page, but
collapse each section as it loses focus / scroll is done / "next" button
is pressed. Users could manually expand each section, or press a "Expand
all sections" button to keep everything visible at once?

Still at the early stages (mostly, I am missing feedback from directors 
on what the various sections could/should contain so I can provide 
snippets), but.. take a look at:
https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/unified.html (force a refresh to get 
the fresh JS/CSS please, things change!)


This is a unified editor with just one big textarea for the report, 
using some HTML hoodoo to figure out where in the report you are 
currently looking/editing and provide you with assistance in the right 
hand panel in turn. The end compiler/checker is also more helpful now 
and allows for custom sections (permitted they follow the "## Section:" 
syntax).


Hope this is more along the lines y'all were thinking of :)
Should work with both FF, Chrome and Safari, BUT there is a bug in 
current FireFox that ruins the undo/redo when you access size dimensions 
in a textarea...so, beware.


I like it!

Are the requirements for at least X characters in some sections a board 
requirement? I dislike those because they sometimes force writing of 
meaningless filler just to get to the required count.



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Re: New board report wizard, feedback welcome!

[Patricia Shanahan]

I've tried out the tool. I can see it being useful for some projects, 
and should be available as a choice.


However, I would not use it as it is, and hope the existing reporter 
gets upgraded, not replaced by the wizard. I much prefer to view the 
whole report as a unit, not just as a series of separate pieces.


If it is to become the main way of editing reports it really needs an 
option to view and edit a draft with one or two clicks, not clicking 
through all the windows.


It would be better to present the help text for each window in a 
separate text area, so that it can remain visible after there is actual 
content.


On 7/31/2019 9:06 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 8/1/19 2:54 AM, Christopher wrote:

Pretty neat.

Could add a send draft to list feature (private@ or dev@ for community 
review).

Does it support editing by multiple people? Can one person resume a
draft saved by another?


It's being worked on, though there are some considerations to consider 
first (so we don't end up with a too-many-chefs issue).



Would be nice to have questions from the previous board feedback
auto-populated to be answered in the current report.


Also in the works, we just have to figure out some permission issues 
here, as we'd be pulling the data from whimsy.




On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 3:34 PM Daniel Gruno  
wrote:


Hi folks,
I've been working on a new board report tool to help address some of the
most common issues with the current tool (mainly that it favors
auto-inserted metrics over the story and doesn't guide people very well)
and have thus far come up with this new wizard:

https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/

It's open to all committers to review, though easiest if you're on a PMC
of some sort. There are some ideas being brewed, and some features that
aren't complete (such as the draft/publish buttons and additional helper
text).

I'd like people to take a look, and provide some feedback. I am stringly
contemplating either replacing the existing reporter tool with this (but
keeping the getjson.py which powers both), or a link from the old to the
new.

Anyway, feedback is most welcome!
Things will probably change as we go along and feedback comes in.

With regards,
Daniel.

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Re: [Discuss] Attributing contributions to commercial vendors investing in projects

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 4/17/2019 11:27 AM, Griselda Cuevas wrote:


It brings clarity to project roadmap and dependencies.
Knowing what companies are investing in a given area, allows users &
contributors know who to contact to move their own contributions faster and
gives companies the ability to accept user suggestions.


Back when I was working in the computer industry, having to contact a 
competitor to expedite my ideas and to feed them suggestions would have 
been a very serious negative on contributing to a project.


Even now, I would prefer my ideas to get full consideration by a 
project, without having to work through a third party.


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 4/2/2019 8:12 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
...

It's just that the comdev PMC is responsible for oversight and
reporting on those new initiatives, and it keeps things simple for
now.


That is exactly what troubles me about making the new initiative part of 
ComDev.


There seems to me to be a risk of going back to the "Do we have a 
problem? Even if we have a problem do we really need to do anything 
about it?" stage every time the group tries to do anything, including 
reporting progress to the board, and requesting resources from the board.


At best, comdev PMC oversight and reporting would be mostly harmless. 
They would just pass through whatever the group would have sent directly 
to the board, only costing time. At worst, it could make the current 
initiative go the way of all previous diversity efforts, by discouraging 
and sapping the energy of the initiative's leadership.


The risk of anything other than direct access to the board seems too high.

[I have not attempted to join the initiative only because I do not have 
any expertise in the area of solutions. I have been a woman in 
computing, in various ways, for over 50 years. I want the current 
initiative to have the best possible chance of making a difference.]


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Re: on "meritocracy"

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/22/2019 6:56 AM, Shawn McKinney wrote:



On Mar 22, 2019, at 2:03 AM, Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:

It would be very important to come up with a replacement that is
as effective as what we're trying to replace. Frankly, I don't know
a single candidate.

Does anyone?


Here are some, can’t say they carry the same level of clarity or weight.

excellence, merit-based / merited, self-determination, deserving / 
deservingness, worthiness / being worthy of, getting one's due, be entitled / 
qualified to


I suspect, without research data to back it up, that anything that 
implies that those with decision making power got there primarily 
through their own merit/deserts/worth etc. would have the same harmful 
effects as a claim to be a meritocracy. I prefer the direction that 
presents meritocracy as something towards which we can strive, but that 
has not been achieved and may never be fully achieved. Luck and having 
the right parents will go on being important.


Patricia

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Re: Request for Participation in University of Cincinnati - Open Source Survey

[Patricia Shanahan]

It also excludes retired and unemployed people. I believe people like
me, retirees who do not want the stress of a senior technical leader job
but enjoy programming, will be an increasing source of open source
programming in the future.

The results will have to be interpreted very carefully due to those
limitations. For example, the survey cannot be used to estimate the
extent of open source dependence on employer support.

It seems unfortunate, because the survey could have been made much more
generally useful without the limitation to employed people. They could
still have asked about employment status, and used that to select
responses to process for some studies.

The introductory paragraph needs to be rewritten. I suggest:

"Please see below for a message from some researchers from the
University of Cincinnati who are running a survey on participation in
Open Source by employed people. The survey is open to those Apache
contributors and committers who are employed by a third party. The
researchers have said they make a donation to the ASF for completed
responses up to a maximum of $1000."

On 10/16/2018 11:42 AM, Steph van Schalkwyk wrote:

Interesting that self-employed people are excluded. So many committers are.
Steph
+1.314.452.2896 (Tel/SMS)


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:24 PM Sharan Foga  wrote:


Hi Everyone

Please see below for a message from some researchers from the University
of Cincinnati who are running a survey on participation in Open Source. The
survey is open to all Apache contributors and committers and the
researchers have said they make a donation to the ASF for completed
responses up to a maximum of $1000.

Please feel free to circulate this message within your projects.

Thanks
Sharan

==

October 16, 2018

Dear Apache Software Foundation Contributors and Committers,

We are researchers at the University of Cincinnati. We want to understand
how a firm's participation in open source software (OSS) development
affects you and your job. Since you are significant contributors to the OSS
community, we invite you to participate in our study by completing an
online survey.

The survey will take approximately 15 minutes to complete. In appreciation
of your time, $5 will be donated to Apache for each completed survey
response up to a total of $1,000. In addition, each survey participant will
be entered into a prize drawing. Two people will be randomly selected—each
person will receive a $250 Visa gift card.

Your individual responses will be kept confidential and anonymous. Your
participation is voluntary. You may start and then change your mind and
exit the survey at any time. You can complete the survey any time before
November 10th.  We will send one reminder on October 21st and one on
November 8th.

Your inputs are extremely valuable to improving our understanding of how
OSS development impacts developers’ career experiences.

Please click the following link to start the survey.
http://cincinnati.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3h3D0bMEHrQ47xr

Thank you again for your time!

Sincerely,
Dr. Sherae Daniel, Dr. Jaime Windeler, and Dr. Liwei Chen
University of Cincinnati
Carl H. Lindner College of Business
Department of Operations, Business Analytics & Info Systems (OBAIS)
Room 618 Carl H. Lindner Hall
2925 Campus Green Dr.
Cincinnati, OH 45221
***
Sherae Daniel, Ph.D.
sherae.dan...@uc.edu
New OSS Research
London School of Economics Blog Post

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2018/09/26/can-your-organisation-benefit-from-embracing-the-open-source-way/
Maruping, L., Daniel, S.L., Cataldo, M., Herbsleb, J. (2018) “Developer
Centrality and the Impact of Value Congruence and Incongruence on
Commitment and Code Contribution Activity in Open Source Software
Communities” Management Information Systems Quarterly (Accepted).
Daniel, S.L., Maruping, L., Cataldo, M. (2018) “The Impact of Ideology Fit
on Companies and OSS Communities” Management Information Systems Quarterly
(Accepted).
Daniel, S.L., Midha, V., Bhattacherhjee, Singh, S. (2018) "Sourcing
Knowledge in open source software projects: The impacts of internal and
external social capital on project success" The Journal of Strategic
Information Systems (In Press).
https://authors.elsevier.com/a/1XhMS3RA8iSVl3


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Re: Business Cards Getting Started Info

[Patricia Shanahan]

Thanks for putting this together.

Can I use the MOO design but get them printed locally? If so, what is 
the procedure?


On 1/5/2018 2:47 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi Everyone

I've put together some information on the wiki, about the business cards that I 
hope provides a basic guide for how to create and order them as well as 
responding to a few potential general queries. (see link below)

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Apache+Business+Cards

Please take a look and let me have any suggestions, feedback or comments.

Thanks
Sharan

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Re: New reporter UI

[Patricia Shanahan]

Not a response to this message in particular, but to the whole thread. I
have an uneasy feeling that "What format should the web page be?" is
going to be the 21st Century version of "What form should the bike shed
take?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

On 6/18/2017 1:52 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

A House Style is more about branding and overall UX than whether it is for
just static pages (the web site as you call it) or a dynamic web pages with
a tabbed interface (also applied in a web site).

It is also about colour schemas, imagery, etc. You can take a hint from:

1. https://incubator.apache.org/ngtest/
2. https://whimsy.apache.org

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:


On 06/18/2017 10:29 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

Hi Daniel,

Is there no intention to bring it in sync with the house style of the

ASF?

If you mean www.apache.org, they serve different purposes and the style
reflects that. I don't see how you would "style" it the same way.
I've tried to get it closer, color-wise, this time, but it's not gonna
be a 100% match.

One is a tabbed interface (for a reason), the other is a web site with a
menu (also for a reason). Using the same menu for the reporter tool
would arguably make browsing very sluggish.

With regards,
Daniel.



Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Daniel Gruno 

wrote:



Hi folks,
I've been working on a new UI for the reporter tool today, and I think
it's coming together nicely. The new UI can be seen at
https://reporter.apache.org/ng.html and should prove to be less
clunky/flashy compared to the old one.

Unless I hear otherwise, I'll change this to be the default UI for the
reporter tool in a few days. Comments, feedback etc is of course very
welcome!

With regards,
Daniel.

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Re: Proposed: (Bi?)monthly committer newsletter

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 3/31/2017 6:07 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:

As you probably know, I have been pondering a (bi?)monthly community
newsletter for some time. The goal is to increase the connection between
projects/committers and the larger Apache Software Foundation. As we
grow larger, it becomes harder and harder for projects and individuals
to connect with what's going on across the Foundation as a whole. To
Develop Community, you might say, since that's what we're supposed to be
doing here.

As a small way to address this, my desire is to send a newsletter to
committers every two months (perhaps more often, perhaps less often, as
we judge the reaction of our community) letting them know about upcoming
events, important community news, and committer resources that they may
be unaware of.

My draft for the April newsletter is here -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dob08BhWVXMs9mThx1A_kcR9h0vY3Hsr4Q07Fu5UU0s/edit
- and I encourage you to have a look, make comments, and if you're
interested, I'll invite you to edit it.

I am sure that some people will feel that this is spammy, and that many
will delete it unread. But based on conversations at the last several
ApacheCons, I am confident that most of our community will appreciate
the information, and will find it an opportunity to increase their
cross-Foundation participation.

I don't have a firm deadline on this, but I was thinking perhaps April
5th might be a good date. Wednesdays tend to be good newsletter days,
according to people that know about stuff like that.



The draft newsletter does not seem to have instructions for opting out. 
Do you plan to add that before going live?


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Re: Apache and Java

[Patricia Shanahan]

Java is a good language choice if you want object orientated programming 
support and are targeting multiple platforms. That is likely to be the 
case for many Apache projects.


Apache OpenOffice is mainly C++. It has an unpleasantly complicated 
configuration process and multiple sets of build instructions to deal 
with generating code for different platforms.



On 03/19/2017 01:27 AM, Spaghetti Roulette wrote:

Why do Apache projects use Java so extensively? It looks to me that a lot of 
projects, if not most of them, are written in Java, and I can't get my head 
around this fact. Is there any reason, perhaps technical, or is it just 
coincidence?

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Re: Profile photos and ASF values

[Patricia Shanahan]

I use an acm.org forwarding address as my main e-mail address, and I do 
write and send e-mail with it as the "From" address. I use my ISP's SMTP 
server, but specify the e-mail address for the account as "p...@acm.org".


The "p...@apache.org" address works the same way, except I use it less 
often.


On 1/31/2017 11:39 PM, ARIJIT DAS wrote:

that's right ...can anyone please tell me how to get @apache.org domain
email id? I also want to use apache email id for all activities related to
apache...I have @acm.org email id but it is only forwarding address can not
write and send mail from acm email.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Matthew Sacks 
wrote:


One day the swastika will be an ancient symbol as well.


Let's stick to software?

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:29 PM Ted Dunning 
wrote:


Arijit,



I agree that the symbol can have many meanings and that it is a modern

tragedy that symbols with good meanings have been used for evil.



I don't think it implies that any kind of heritage or culture has to be

lost here.



I would suggest that you consider people who see your emails without your

explanations. There is thus a significant likelihood of unfortunate

misunderstanding without your intent.



The situation would be the same if a greeting that includes a blessing in

one language is an insult in another, second, language. Is it

pragmatically


a good idea to continue to use the greeting if you are meeting with many

speakers of the second language? You could argue you mean no harm and you

can argue that the literal meaning of what you say in the language you

using is beneficent, but you cannot argue that many people will

misunderstand you and be offended. If that is not your intent, you have

failed to communicate well.



So it is with symbols that have different meanings in the culture (or

cultures) you are communicating with. People will misunderstand you. If

your intent is for them to understand you, then you will not succeed as

well as you might.











On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:13 PM, ARIJIT DAS 

wrote:




 Please note Swastika is an ancient symbol of Hindus in India...Hitler

used


it no way implies that the symbol is improper...If you go through our

Vedas


and other mythologies you will find it symbolizes the knowledge and



power...and still today danish air force also uses this symbol.India

has



one of the richest culture and heritage in the world.Many people has

used



manything of our culture and heritage in many ways for many purpose

some



are good some are bad.Why will we give up something which symbolizes



actually good in our culture? World leaders should learn the lesson

from



WW2 from Hiroshima Nagasaki from adverse effects of colonization from



exploitation of poor.Mere opposing a symbol will add any value to

mankind?






On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:30 AM, P. Taylor Goetz 



wrote:







+1 for Ted's approach.







I'm young in terms of ASF years, but I've found it to be very

apolitical.


Recently it's actually been a refreshing departure from what seems

like



an



avalanche. It seems most people here seem to check their personal

beliefs


at the door.







My guess is that it is a case of innocence, but a follow up with



information about cultural sensitivities seems prudent.







-Taylor







On Jan 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman 



wrote:







As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East



mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite



often,



on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight"

unless


it



comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The

Nazi


one



was also at an angle.







We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent,

and



should



not require any action.







And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something

needs

to


be



said" as far as I know.







But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political



organization, and expression of political views (such as showing



political



allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political



activity,



and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate

organization


like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may



agree



with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We

should


not



be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.







Cheers



Niclas







On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <

ap@outlook.com>



wrote:







I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more

private



room



for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then



something



needs to be said.















Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone











 Original message 



From: Ted Dunning 



Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)



To: dev@community.apache.org

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Patricia Shanahan]

That should be "example of undesirable behavior". One could obviously 
write a rule that prohibits using words with more than three syllables 
in e-mails.


On 11/15/2016 8:56 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

What I am looking for is an example of behavior that is permitted by the
current code of conduct but that could be prohibited by a practical,
enforceable set of rules.

On 11/15/2016 8:28 AM, Noah Slater wrote:

What are you looking for, exactly? I'm not sure what a "use-case" is in
this context.

We have a concrete example of what not to do in this very thread
already. I
was contacted off-list by Niclas making it clear he expected me to
provide
proof that would "convince" him that I wasn't trying to "breed" a "a
cry-baby and victimhood culture".

Is this really the sort of thing we want to tolerate when a member of
community mentions that they've had bad experiences before. Is this
sort of
thing the "inclusivity" and "welcoming-ness" we aim for?

As it happens, I wasn't bringing up my bad experiences to make any
concrete
point about what we should or should not do re policy, only to refute
Niclas's nonsense idea that "safety" is not a word we should be using.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 at 16:58 Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


On 11/15/2016 6:48 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
...

You want some sort of "record" to consume. Is a person, on a mailing

list,

saying "hey this place was so bad for me I had to take a break" not
evidence enough for you that something might be wrong?

As for the rest of it, this org keeps records of every email sent to
the
lists. It would not be hard for you to go looking for context if you

wanted

it.

Asking me to go over all that stuff again (which I find upsetting to
even
think about) days after returning here hoping things would be nicer for

me,

is, well, ... it's not particularly considerate.

...

I don't think asking you to go over something you found upsetting is
necessary. On the other hand, I have started looking at the mail
archives for your 2015 participation, and I don't think I have found the
right context, or if I have I am not recognizing it.

Could you perhaps save some time by giving a pointer in terms of e.g. a
mailing list and topic?

Or, if you prefer we not discuss your particular situation, could you
give a pointer to any use-case, in terms of mailing list and topic?

This very discussion is an illustration of why "feeling" based standards
are a problem. Some people are not comfortable setting policies without
solid use-cases they can discuss and analyze. Others may not be
comfortable with discussion and analysis of those use-cases. How does
one accommodate both sets of feelings?

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Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Patricia Shanahan]

What I am looking for is an example of behavior that is permitted by the 
current code of conduct but that could be prohibited by a practical, 
enforceable set of rules.


On 11/15/2016 8:28 AM, Noah Slater wrote:

What are you looking for, exactly? I'm not sure what a "use-case" is in
this context.

We have a concrete example of what not to do in this very thread already. I
was contacted off-list by Niclas making it clear he expected me to provide
proof that would "convince" him that I wasn't trying to "breed" a "a
cry-baby and victimhood culture".

Is this really the sort of thing we want to tolerate when a member of
community mentions that they've had bad experiences before. Is this sort of
thing the "inclusivity" and "welcoming-ness" we aim for?

As it happens, I wasn't bringing up my bad experiences to make any concrete
point about what we should or should not do re policy, only to refute
Niclas's nonsense idea that "safety" is not a word we should be using.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 at 16:58 Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


On 11/15/2016 6:48 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
...

You want some sort of "record" to consume. Is a person, on a mailing

list,

saying "hey this place was so bad for me I had to take a break" not
evidence enough for you that something might be wrong?

As for the rest of it, this org keeps records of every email sent to the
lists. It would not be hard for you to go looking for context if you

wanted

it.

Asking me to go over all that stuff again (which I find upsetting to even
think about) days after returning here hoping things would be nicer for

me,

is, well, ... it's not particularly considerate.

...

I don't think asking you to go over something you found upsetting is
necessary. On the other hand, I have started looking at the mail
archives for your 2015 participation, and I don't think I have found the
right context, or if I have I am not recognizing it.

Could you perhaps save some time by giving a pointer in terms of e.g. a
mailing list and topic?

Or, if you prefer we not discuss your particular situation, could you
give a pointer to any use-case, in terms of mailing list and topic?

This very discussion is an illustration of why "feeling" based standards
are a problem. Some people are not comfortable setting policies without
solid use-cases they can discuss and analyze. Others may not be
comfortable with discussion and analysis of those use-cases. How does
one accommodate both sets of feelings?

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Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 11/15/2016 6:48 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
...

You want some sort of "record" to consume. Is a person, on a mailing list,
saying "hey this place was so bad for me I had to take a break" not
evidence enough for you that something might be wrong?

As for the rest of it, this org keeps records of every email sent to the
lists. It would not be hard for you to go looking for context if you wanted
it.

Asking me to go over all that stuff again (which I find upsetting to even
think about) days after returning here hoping things would be nicer for me,
is, well, ... it's not particularly considerate.

...

I don't think asking you to go over something you found upsetting is 
necessary. On the other hand, I have started looking at the mail 
archives for your 2015 participation, and I don't think I have found the 
right context, or if I have I am not recognizing it.


Could you perhaps save some time by giving a pointer in terms of e.g. a 
mailing list and topic?


Or, if you prefer we not discuss your particular situation, could you 
give a pointer to any use-case, in terms of mailing list and topic?


This very discussion is an illustration of why "feeling" based standards 
are a problem. Some people are not comfortable setting policies without 
solid use-cases they can discuss and analyze. Others may not be 
comfortable with discussion and analysis of those use-cases. How does 
one accommodate both sets of feelings?


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Re: Hipchat Room for Apache Women?

[Patricia Shanahan]

It could be a meeting place for those interested in ASF women's issues, 
without excluding men who share that interest.


On 6/14/2016 5:39 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi Patricia

Personally I think that the mailing list is a better forum for detailed 
discussions. It has the threaded structure and it's easier to follow discussion 
points and respond to particular things that people have said. (We could use 
this list for those type of discussions as it's relevant to developing the ASF 
community.)

My understanding is that the chat room doesn't really give us that and that 
it's more about short fast dialogues, so I'm not sure how well it would work. 
(The main idea behind my original suggestion was to use it more like a meeting 
place, and not so much a discussion one.)

Thanks
Sharan

On 2016-06-14 13:26 (+0200), Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

How do you feel about a room for discussing ASF women's issues?

On 6/14/2016 1:25 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi

Thank you both for your feedback on this and it's showing that it's not the way 
people want to go.

Thanks
Sharan
On 2016-06-13 17:50 (+0200), Kay Schenk  wrote:



On 06/13/2016 06:17 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

On 6/13/2016 4:45 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi Everyone

I discovered Hipchat last week (well I knew Infra were using it!) but
found it to be quite a nice informal online environment.

I was wondering whether this could be a good way to bring together
our existing community of women so that they can get to know each
other and generally just hangout. The rooms can be public or private,
plus there is one to one chat.

What do people think?


I object to a chat room for Apache women just as strongly as I would
object to one for Apache men, and will not join it. I would be happy to
join a chat room for discussing Apache women's issues, provided both men
and women who are interested in the subject are made welcome.

My particular brand of feminism supports treating men and women equally,
and minimizing facilities and clubs that are only for men or only for
women.

Patricia


I'm share Patricia's views on this. I don't think a separate chat room
solely for woman is in keeping with the "Apache Way".


--

MzK

"Time spent with cats is never wasted."
-- Sigmund Freud

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Re: Hipchat Room for Apache Women?

[Patricia Shanahan]

How do you feel about a room for discussing ASF women's issues?

On 6/14/2016 1:25 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi

Thank you both for your feedback on this and it's showing that it's not the way 
people want to go.

Thanks
Sharan
On 2016-06-13 17:50 (+0200), Kay Schenk  wrote:



On 06/13/2016 06:17 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

On 6/13/2016 4:45 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi Everyone

I discovered Hipchat last week (well I knew Infra were using it!) but
found it to be quite a nice informal online environment.

I was wondering whether this could be a good way to bring together
our existing community of women so that they can get to know each
other and generally just hangout. The rooms can be public or private,
plus there is one to one chat.

What do people think?


I object to a chat room for Apache women just as strongly as I would
object to one for Apache men, and will not join it. I would be happy to
join a chat room for discussing Apache women's issues, provided both men
and women who are interested in the subject are made welcome.

My particular brand of feminism supports treating men and women equally,
and minimizing facilities and clubs that are only for men or only for
women.

Patricia


I'm share Patricia's views on this. I don't think a separate chat room
solely for woman is in keeping with the "Apache Way".


--

MzK

"Time spent with cats is never wasted."
-- Sigmund Freud

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Re: Hipchat Room for Apache Women?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 6/13/2016 4:45 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi Everyone

I discovered Hipchat last week (well I knew Infra were using it!) but
found it to be quite a nice informal online environment.

I was wondering whether this could be a good way to bring together
our existing community of women so that they can get to know each
other and generally just hangout. The rooms can be public or private,
plus there is one to one chat.

What do people think?


I object to a chat room for Apache women just as strongly as I would 
object to one for Apache men, and will not join it. I would be happy to 
join a chat room for discussing Apache women's issues, provided both 
men and women who are interested in the subject are made welcome.


My particular brand of feminism supports treating men and women equally, 
and minimizing facilities and clubs that are only for men or only for women.


Patricia

Re: Encouraging More Women to Participate on Apache Projects?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Systers, http://anitaborg.org/get-involved/systers/

More generally, the Wikipedia article on "Women in Computing", 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_computing, has some possible 
resources.


On 5/23/2016 3:45 AM, Sharan Foga wrote:

Hi All

Just a quick update. I've sent out an email to the following groups so far:

- Pyladies
- Phpladies
- Women Who Code
- Girls Who Code
- Black Girls Code

I'll post any feedback I get. Also if anyone thinks of any other groups
they'd like me to contact then please let me know.

Thanks
Sharan

On 20/05/16 14:26, Sharan Foga wrote:

Thanks very much to everyone for their feedback and support.

Rich - I will contact these groups to see what feedback and advice
they can give.

Thanks
Sharan

On 20/05/16 14:05, Rich Bowen wrote:

I would suggest that the most constructive thing we could do would be to
reach out to pyladies and phpwomen and other similar organizations
and ask
for recommendations and assistance in setting up a similar entity here.
On May 19, 2016 11:18, "Sharan Foga"  wrote:


Hi All

I'm interested in finding out how we could encourage more women to
participate on Apache projects. It's a discussion topic that came up
last
week while I was at Apachecon. My understanding is that we don't
have any
current strategies in place so I think it could be good to look at
gathering some ideas about how to tackle the problem and also hear
about
any lessons learned from any previous or similar strategies.

What do people think?

Thanks
Sharan

Re: Base for presentation

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 5/21/2016 10:31 PM, Alex Harui wrote:



On 5/21/16, 4:29 PM, "Patricia Shanahan"  wrote:

Good points. Unfortunately, the projects in which I'm currently active
are not very beginner-friendly.

Could people suggest a few projects that would benefit from, and be able
to use, relatively inexperienced programmers right now?


Apache Flex.  IMO, we want to be the choice for new programmers as well as
experienced programmers.  Full disclosure: Justin and Harbs and I are all
on the PMC.  Not sure what kind of impression we left on the Sharan
thread, but I honestly don't think I've seen any improper behavior toward
someone based on some demographic attribute.


Thanks. Given the statistics, I assume most projects have not seen any 
problems. That is part of the message I want to convey.

Re: Base for presentation

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 5/21/2016 2:50 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:



On 21 05 2016, at 11:19, Shane Curcuru 
wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote on 5/21/16 9:41 AM:

In connection with the "Encouraging More Women into Participate
in Apache Projects?" I am going to try to talk to some student
groups, especially a WIC chapter, about Apache.

Part of the presentation will be directly related to why women do
fine in ASF, including my personal experiences. That I can and
should write myself.

I also need a general introduction to ASF, and why a young
programmer should consider getting involved in it. I'm sure that
has already been written. Any suggestions for presentations I
could adopt and adapt?

Patricia


ComDev has a speaker resources page.  I urge everyone who has a
relevant slide deck or the like to add it there:

http://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html

Separately, if folks are also interested in how the internals of
the Foundation are governed, we've got that too:

http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/


These are good slides. Thanks for the reminder, Shane.

I'd also suggest that, as I've learned ("from personal experience":
anecdotal and specific but maybe useful), I was able to engage and
involve more people (regardless of subject position [translated:
however they define themselves or are defined as selves by others])
by being concrete and specific regarding projects. ASF as a general
idea is great, but it's about doing, and that means, at least for me
and for many others, doing in particular projects. In practice, this
means it might help (read: probably will, but not necessarily)
focusing on those projects you think cool and (or) know. Also helps
to bring out the stalwarts of those who can speak to the virtues and
excitements of their projects. And Apache has a lot of those and
that's to its credit.


Good points. Unfortunately, the projects in which I'm currently active 
are not very beginner-friendly.


Could people suggest a few projects that would benefit from, and be able 
to use, relatively inexperienced programmers right now?


Patricia

Base for presentation

[Patricia Shanahan]

In connection with the "Encouraging More Women into Participate in 
Apache Projects?" I am going to try to talk to some student groups, 
especially a WIC chapter, about Apache.


Part of the presentation will be directly related to why women do fine 
in ASF, including my personal experiences. That I can and should write 
myself.


I also need a general introduction to ASF, and why a young programmer 
should consider getting involved in it. I'm sure that has already been 
written. Any suggestions for presentations I could adopt and adapt?


Patricia

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

[Patricia Shanahan]

Maybe OpenOffice should ask for an expert on multi-platform large system 
build tools to consult on selecting one?



On 2/7/2016 2:34 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

+1, +1, etc.

Apache OpenOffice is overflowing with opportunities to make use of this.

I did not notice a way to indicate that a task has been "taken" or is 
completed/withdrawn.

(I could have missed it.)

I assume a potential GSoC mini-project could be identified in the title or 
short description, with a link to the JIRA place for further details?  The 
offer of mentoring could be there too.

Each project could have their own FAQ about general necessities of contribution 
how to prepare/start, by subproject area if needed, tied into wherever the 
project-level widget is displayed.

The breakdown into areas of contribution is very nice.

  - Dennis


-Original Message-
From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 08:23
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

On 02/07/2016 05:13 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

I like!


Yay! Glad to hear this :)



One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit of
text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder or
easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and "Expert"
compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence
explanation of each.


I picked 5 because 3 sounded like too few (too big a jump between
them?). There is an icon next to the difficulty level that shows which
'level' it is, from green (easy) to red (very hard). Maybe I need to
make that more visible?.

An explanation sounds like a great idea, and we can add that as a
tooltip in the widget overview and as a line of text in the actual task
details. I can get started on that right away, whereas changing to use 3
levels might take some getting used to for me (and a bit of work to
rework the existing system down to 3 levels instead of 5).

Or hm, what about a small (?) next to the level which shows you what we
expect this level to signify.?

With regards,
Daniel.

[ ... ]

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

[Patricia Shanahan]

I like!

One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit of 
text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder or 
easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and "Expert" 
compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence 
explanation of each.


Here is a quick suggestion for a three level system:

Beginner: Can do very simple tasks in the language.

Intermediate: Can write complete programs using the main features.

Expert: Knows most, if not all, features of the language and can apply 
them to solve difficult problems.


It does not really matter that much what the levels are, as long as 
everyone using Help Wanted has the same understanding.


On 2/7/2016 8:01 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)

As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with Rich
(Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to thinking
whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would solve one
specific issue we often come across when someone says "I know X, Y and Z
- What can I do to help Apache?".

Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but off-putting
to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or bug trackers to
advertise what we want done, and what tech/person skills would be
helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is our
opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a "skills
-> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform setup for
these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.

...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm great at
marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I can do?" and
then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some that you could
start on right away and some that require more intimate knowledge with
the project.

...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which tasks
at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that project,
while at the same time helping the project accomplish something new.

...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could place
on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation are
looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when people visit
our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a web dev guru - is
that you?" ?

Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much work-in-progress)
tool that you can use to browse the tasks that all the Apache projects
would like to get done, see the difficulty of it, language (whether
spoken/written or programming) skills needed, what it's about and
who/how to contact. You can also use the HW widget to plug your own
project's requests into your web site, or you can display all the
current tasks waiting in the system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get started
with Apache.

The code is "live" at: https://helpwanted.apache.org/
A test widget is here: https://helpwanted.apache.org/wtest.html
(the test widget shows what it could look like on the httpd site)

It's open for all committers to go set up new tasks (universal commit
bit, so to speak, just click on 'edit tasks'), and we hope it will be a
hub for putting people on the right path - whether that be a pointer to
JIRA, ML etc - to contributing to our projects. Or it'll crash and burn
and we'll never speak of it again :)

Contributions, feedback, quality control etc are MOST WELCOME, and we're
only getting started with the proof-of-concept right now (as found in
svn). Hopefully we'll have something stable and polished by the end of
February? :)

With regards,
Daniel.


PS: Yes, I know the admin area is a stylistic nightmare. That'll be
fixed...eventually! And the task guide needs a LOT of work. Saying
"contact the dev list" isn't enough, but I'll need a word smith for that :)

Re: Guiding volunteers

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 2/4/2016 10:35 AM, Greg Chase wrote:

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


An alternative approach would be a help-wanted page, organized according
to skills, maintained on the same sort of system as the board agenda. Each
PMC chair whose project is looking for volunteers would supply information
about their needs. The result would be a public web page potential
volunteers could search.

Ideally, it would be on a whimsey-like system, but a start could be made
by just defining a format and keeping the master page in a PMC chair
accessible SVN archive.



This is a wonderful idea.  I've been looking for a way to get the various
incubating communities I'm helping organize recruit new contributors.  This
would help solve this problem by making it easier for (p)PMC's to
articulate what they would like help with from new community members.

Obviously it would be an adhoc system, and up to projects to fill out and
keep their want ad's up to date.  Perhaps a rule of the system would be
that want ads are automatically deleted after a month if they aren't
visited and renewed by project members to verify they are still current.


I like the idea of automatic disappearance, but maybe make it three 
months and tie it to the board report cycle - every time a PMC files a 
board report, it should also check and update its help wanted.




So basically, I'm volunteering to help here :)


I would also like to help, but don't know how to get something like this 
started.


Patricia

Re: Guiding volunteers

[Patricia Shanahan]

An alternative approach would be a help-wanted page, organized according 
to skills, maintained on the same sort of system as the board agenda. 
Each PMC chair whose project is looking for volunteers would supply 
information about their needs. The result would be a public web page 
potential volunteers could search.


Ideally, it would be on a whimsey-like system, but a start could be made 
by just defining a format and keeping the master page in a PMC chair 
accessible SVN archive.


On 2/4/2016 3:17 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi Rich,

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Rich Bowen  wrote:

...I'd like to see a list (I don't care about the technology, and simple is
better) of ideas that people can work on


Given our distributed and dynamic nature I think such a list can only
work in terms of a query on our issue trackers, where specific tickets
are flagged as low-hanging fruit.

We use this for GSoC where http://s.apache.org/gsoc2015ideas returns a
list of such tickets.


... I have a list of ideas that I would like to do some day, and have
recently accepted that I will never have the time to do them


If those are foundation level ideas you might describe them in
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV and include them in a
suitable query.

So IMO what's needed is to define a standard label or set of labels
for those jira tickets, create a URL like
http://s.apache.org/gsoc2015ideas that lists those tickets and inform
our projects of that.

-Bertrand

Re: Want a Mentor

[Patricia Shanahan]

I'm sorry - I thought you had already selected Hadoop. I don't know any 
alternative to picking projects, browsing their developer lists, and 
seeing if anything interests you.


Maybe Apache needs a "Help wanted" web page where projects can list 
their needs?


On 1/14/2016 12:24 PM, Kapil Jain wrote:

Yes, at a high level - however its providing details about version
controlling. feedback/ bugs reporting etc.

I'm looking for a suitable project for me I can start understanding it and
then contributing to it.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


Have you read http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors?


On 1/14/2016 11:59 AM, Kapil Jain wrote:


Still struggling to find a project and take my first step. Looking for
mentor who can just help me in getting started.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Kapil Jain 
wrote:

Can someone please help me in finding out a suitable project where I can

contribute? I'm more interested in Hadoop and Java. But can work on
another
project and/ or language.




On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ross Gardler <
ross.gard...@microsoft.com


wrote:



Welcome.


Please see details of the process at
http://community.apache.org/mentoringprogramme.html

It should be noted that 95% of the work is on your side. Success in open
source is about self motivation and self management. The other 5% is
about
asking for help when you hit a barrier. The above link should provide
enough info to get you started.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Kapil Jain<mailto:kapil.jain...@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎1/‎11/‎2016 8:24 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
Subject: Want a Mentor

I would like to join apache mentorship programme and want to contribute
to
Apache Hadoop project.

I have Java skills required for the project.

I'm unable to figure out how to contribute. Please assist.

Thanks,
Kapil

Re: Want a Mentor

[Patricia Shanahan]

Have you read http://www.apache.org/dev/contributors?

On 1/14/2016 11:59 AM, Kapil Jain wrote:

Still struggling to find a project and take my first step. Looking for
mentor who can just help me in getting started.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Kapil Jain  wrote:


Can someone please help me in finding out a suitable project where I can
contribute? I'm more interested in Hadoop and Java. But can work on another
project and/ or language.




On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ross Gardler 
wrote:



Welcome.

Please see details of the process at
http://community.apache.org/mentoringprogramme.html

It should be noted that 95% of the work is on your side. Success in open
source is about self motivation and self management. The other 5% is about
asking for help when you hit a barrier. The above link should provide
enough info to get you started.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Kapil Jain
Sent: ‎1/‎11/‎2016 8:24 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Want a Mentor

I would like to join apache mentorship programme and want to contribute to
Apache Hadoop project.

I have Java skills required for the project.

I'm unable to figure out how to contribute. Please assist.

Thanks,
Kapil

Re: [ASSISTANCE NEEDED] for OSCON

[Patricia Shanahan]

I am retired, so no conflicting job responsibilities, but would need to 
travel from San Diego. There should be someone closer.


On 7/11/2015 3:42 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

Hi Melissa!

First of all -- I wish you best of luck with the surgery and quickest
possible recovery! We'll surely miss you!

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Melissa Warnkin
 wrote:

Good evening and Happy Friday!!
Due to medical reasons, I am unable to attend OSCON and "woman the booth"; 
therefore,
I am in need of someone that can replace me as the booth coordinator.
Crucial dates:
Exhibitor Move-in:  Monday, July 20th, from 8:00 - 5:00; Tuesday, the 21st, 
from 8:00 - Noon
Expo Hall Hours:  Tuesday, the 21st, from 5:00 - 6:00 for the opening 
reception; Wednesday,
the 22nd, from 10:00 am - 4:30 and the booth crawl is from 5:40 - 7:00.
Exhibitor Move-out:  Thursday, the 23rd, from 5:00 - 9:00pm; Friday, the 24th, 
from 8:00 - Noon
Job responsibility:


Shall we, perhaps, set up a wiki page tracking various volunteers? Especially
for booth duty times.


- Set up and tear down the booth (an hour (tops) of work, if that, on both 
ends)


I can definitely help with that.


What's in it for you, you might ask?!:
- The pleasure of replacing me! ;) LOL
- If you agree to be the coordinator and fulfill the roles as described 
above,
  The ASF will cover your travel and expenses, which also includes the hotel
  and expo hall registration, which allows you to attend all the evening 
events
  and lunches.
  Please get back to me with your interest ASAP so that I can make the 
necessary
  arrangements.  Local folks strongly preferred (naturally) due to the 
lateness of
  this notice, and this offer does not apply to International folks (sorry 
- you all
  know that I love you, but we can't justify that expense!).


Let me know if an uber person has been found yet. Pivotal has got a Portland
office (mostly for Geode folks) and I can ask around there.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: What might an open source class look like?

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 5/7/2015 12:15 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
...

In my experience students didn't care much about licenses and open
source vs. proprietary legal/business aspects, what made them tick was
realizing that they can be active actors in open source as opposed to
just being told what to do with some software. And discovering the
open source way of collaborating.

...

Although it may not be the most exciting of topics for students, 
licensing issues are important. However, I've sometimes seen too much 
emphasis put on it as an open source specific issue. "What are the 
license terms? Are they compatible with the planned use?" needs to be 
asked any time software is being selected, regardless of whether it is 
proprietary or open source.