Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Unsubscribe pls Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 10.10.2023 um 01:46 schrieb Tharsan Thavarajah > : > > No subscribe pls this i want this no more > Von meinem iPhone gesendet > >> Am 02.10.2023 um 09:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz : >> >> Ok … changes have been merged … now let’s see ;-) >> >> Chris >> >> Von: Christofer Dutz >> Datum: Samstag, 30. September 2023 um 08:39 >> An: dev@community.apache.org >> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >> Well it wouldn't be you, who's getting the beer... You would need ask sebb >> to share that beer with you ;-) >> >> Chris >> >> Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> >> ____________________ >> From: Christopher >> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 1:57:02 AM >> To: ComDev >> Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >> >> Loophole question: can we start a campaign to complain just to get free >> beer? >> >>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 15:25 Craig Russell wrote: >>> >>> I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. >>> Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. >>> >>> Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own >>> project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent >>> that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split >>> the bar tab with you >>> >>> Craig >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: >>>> >>>> We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed >>> as many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. >>>> These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people >>> who expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person >>> actively objecting. >>>> >>>> We are trying to improve things. >>>> We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to >>> stay the way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they >>> can keep things the way they were. >>>> >>>> Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about >>> the change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, >>> I’ll invite you to a beer? >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Von: sebb >>>> Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 >>>> An: dev@community.apache.org >>>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>>> NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide >>>> docs on how to do so >>>> Don't force projects to change if they don't want to >>>> >>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, >>>>> >>>>> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) >>>>> >>>>> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured >>> your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Von: Richard Zowalla >>>>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 >>>>> An: dev@community.apache.org >>>>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk >>> : >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Christofer, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, >>> I'm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects d
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
No subscribe pls this i want this no more Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 02.10.2023 um 09:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz : > > Ok … changes have been merged … now let’s see ;-) > > Chris > > Von: Christofer Dutz > Datum: Samstag, 30. September 2023 um 08:39 > An: dev@community.apache.org > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > Well it wouldn't be you, who's getting the beer... You would need ask sebb to > share that beer with you ;-) > > Chris > > Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> > > From: Christopher > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 1:57:02 AM > To: ComDev > Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > Loophole question: can we start a campaign to complain just to get free > beer? > >> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 15:25 Craig Russell wrote: >> >> I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. >> Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. >> >> Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own >> project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent >> that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split >> the bar tab with you >> >> Craig >> >>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >>> >>> As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: >>> >>> We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed >> as many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. >>> These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people >> who expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person >> actively objecting. >>> >>> We are trying to improve things. >>> We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to >> stay the way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they >> can keep things the way they were. >>> >>> Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about >> the change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, >> I’ll invite you to a beer? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> Von: sebb >>> Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 >>> An: dev@community.apache.org >>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>> NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide >>> docs on how to do so >>> Don't force projects to change if they don't want to >>> >>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, >>>> >>>> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) >>>> >>>> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured >> your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> Von: Richard Zowalla >>>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 >>>> An: dev@community.apache.org >>>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk >> : >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Christofer, >>>>>> >>>>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, >> I'm >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like >> being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they >> had before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Craig >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t >> quite form anything actionable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Being subscrib
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Well it wouldn't be you, who's getting the beer... You would need ask sebb to share that beer with you ;-) Chris Gesendet von Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Christopher Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 1:57:02 AM To: ComDev Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs? Loophole question: can we start a campaign to complain just to get free beer? On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 15:25 Craig Russell wrote: > I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. > Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. > > Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own > project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent > that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split > the bar tab with you > > Craig > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > > > As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: > > > > We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed > as many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. > > These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people > who expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person > actively objecting. > > > > We are trying to improve things. > > We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to > stay the way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they > can keep things the way they were. > > > > Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about > the change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, > I’ll invite you to a beer? > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Von: sebb > > Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 > > An: dev@community.apache.org > > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide > > docs on how to do so > > Don't force projects to change if they don't want to > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >> > >> Well, > >> > >> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > >> > >> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured > your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> Von: Richard Zowalla > >> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 > >> An: dev@community.apache.org > >> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > >> +1 > >> > >> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk >: > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Christofer, > >>>> > >>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, > I'm > >>>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like > being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they > had before. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Craig > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t > quite form anything actionable. > >>>>> > >>>>> Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently > looking into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have > seen many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > >>>>> > >>>>> Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a > large percentage of the emails are: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes > it impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > >>>>> * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of > the header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > >>>>> * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists > (notifications@, commits@), having left over o
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Loophole question: can we start a campaign to complain just to get free beer? On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 15:25 Craig Russell wrote: > I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. > Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. > > Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own > project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent > that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split > the bar tab with you > > Craig > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > > > As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: > > > > We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed > as many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. > > These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people > who expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person > actively objecting. > > > > We are trying to improve things. > > We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to > stay the way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they > can keep things the way they were. > > > > Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about > the change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, > I’ll invite you to a beer? > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Von: sebb > > Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 > > An: dev@community.apache.org > > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide > > docs on how to do so > > Don't force projects to change if they don't want to > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >> > >> Well, > >> > >> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > >> > >> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured > your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> Von: Richard Zowalla > >> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 > >> An: dev@community.apache.org > >> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > >> +1 > >> > >> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk >: > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Christofer, > >>>> > >>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, > I'm > >>>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like > being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they > had before. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Craig > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t > quite form anything actionable. > >>>>> > >>>>> Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently > looking into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have > seen many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > >>>>> > >>>>> Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a > large percentage of the emails are: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes > it impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > >>>>> * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of > the header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > >>>>> * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists > (notifications@, commits@), having left over only skeletons in which > every now and then a vote is being handled. > >>>>> > >>>>> My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated > GitHub emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more > condensed version. > >>>>> > >>>>> With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually > configur
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split the bar tab with you Craig > On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: > > We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed as > many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. > These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people who > expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person actively > objecting. > > We are trying to improve things. > We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to stay the > way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they can keep > things the way they were. > > Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about the > change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, I’ll > invite you to a beer? > > Chris > > > > Von: sebb > Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 > An: dev@community.apache.org > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide > docs on how to do so > Don't force projects to change if they don't want to > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz > wrote: >> >> Well, >> >> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) >> >> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your >> .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. >> >> Chris >> >> >> Von: Richard Zowalla >> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 >> An: dev@community.apache.org >> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >> +1 >> >> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk : >>> +1 >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Christofer, >>>> >>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being >>>> able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had >>>> before. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Craig >>>> >>>>> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite >>>>> form anything actionable. >>>>> >>>>> Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking >>>>> into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen >>>>> many of our lists literally being rendered useless. >>>>> >>>>> Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large >>>>> percentage of the emails are: >>>>> >>>>> * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it >>>>> impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. >>>>> * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the >>>>> header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile >>>>> phones. >>>>> * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, >>>>> commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a >>>>> vote is being handled. >>>>> >>>>> My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub >>>>> emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more >>>>> condensed version. >>>>> >>>>> With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured >>>>> the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. >>>>> >>>>> Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these >>>>> changes, but I would on the other hand bet t
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
On 2023-08-04 16:02, rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: But the current setting is objectively awful, and so far I have not heard even one person saying that it's better. I'm perplexed as to why we'd want to even suggest, much less encourage, remaining with the current setting. The current defaults were fine when they were created, which was in...2015/2016 or so, back when hardly any project used github issues/prs and those that did had maybe four issues per month. What they are obviously not good at is scaling to the use we have in 2023. As for keeping defaults, I think the number one reason would be to not mess up the 525600 filters that people have for the existing subject syntax. Giving projects the exact layout of the defaults we have right now will allow them to keep status quo and then, at their own pace, decide if they want to switch or not. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
On Fri, 2023-08-04 at 06:46 -0700, Craig Russell wrote: > I agree with Mark. > > > On Aug 4, 2023, at 02:36, Mark Thomas wrote: > > > > I suggest the following: > > > > - announce to projects that the default is changing in X days / > > weeks > > (or even months) time > > - provide instructions for what projects need to do before then to > > keep > > the existing format > > Include in the message the actual current defaults that can be > copy/pasted into the projects' asf.yaml for project who prefer the > current state. > The longer the email is, the less chance that the target audience will read it. Please see my updated draft, which links to the "keep your terrible defaults" page. I'm also working on updating the phrasing of that page to make it, too, less about "here's what's broken" and more about "Here's how you can tweak the defaults", at least until the change is made. At that point, we'll have a "classic configuration" snippet there for people who really, actually, for some inscrutable reason, want the current setting. But the current setting is objectively awful, and so far I have not heard even one person saying that it's better. I'm perplexed as to why we'd want to even suggest, much less encourage, remaining with the current setting. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
I agree with Mark. > On Aug 4, 2023, at 02:36, Mark Thomas wrote: > > I suggest the following: > > - announce to projects that the default is changing in X days / weeks > (or even months) time > - provide instructions for what projects need to do before then to keep > the existing format Include in the message the actual current defaults that can be copy/pasted into the projects' asf.yaml for project who prefer the current state. Craig > - change the default > > Mark > > > >> On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 15:56, Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> as there seems to be general consent on this, I have taken the liberty to >>> prepare the PRs for this: >>> https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-event-notifier/pull/12 >>> https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-discussions-notifier/pull/2 >>> However, have I marked them as DRAFT so they aren’t executed today. >>> >>> I think it would make sense to send out an email first, notifying projects >>> about the coming changes and to define a date to which the changes will be >>> applied. >>> >>> I’d be happy to prepare the email and send it out (once the 72h for this >>> POLL are over). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Von: Christofer Dutz >>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:47 >>> An: Volkan Yazıcı >>> Betreff: AW: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>> Still giving this a bit more time (72 hours in total) as we usually do >>> things. >>> But yeah … I guess as soon as that time is over, I’ll create an infra >>> ticket. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Von: Volkan Yazıcı >>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:39 >>> An: Christofer Dutz >>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>> Check. Is there (or will there be) an INFRA ticket that I can follow the >>> implementation progress? >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:28 AM Christofer Dutz >>> mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: >>> Hi Volkan, >>> >>> well I won’t be doing anything … also is this not really a vote (as we >>> didn’t know if this is something we actually are allowed or able to vote >>> on). >>> So my plan is to show this thread to Infra to show that there’s general >>> support for the proposal. >>> >>> I really hope they won’t let me jump another hoop, asking me to bring this >>> to a vote on Members@. >>> >>> But sure I think this is worth sending out to committers@ or similar list, >>> which will make a wide range of people be informed. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Von: Volkan Yazıcı mailto:vol...@yazi.ci>> >>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:22 >>> An: Christofer Dutz >>> mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> >>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>> [PM'ing to avoid derailing the vote thread.] >>> >>> Christofer, in the email where you will announce the result, would you mind >>> also sharing when the change will take place, please? This will help users >>> to know when they shall expect the changes. >>> >>> Kind regards. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:46 AM Christofer Dutz >>> mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: >>> Well, >>> >>> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) >>> >>> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your >>> .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> Von: Richard Zowalla mailto:rich...@zowalla.com>> >>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 >>> An: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> >>> mailto:dev@community.apache.org>> >>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to >>> generate GitHub integration email subjecs? >>> +1 >>> >>> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk >>> mailto:ja...@potiuk.com>>: >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 202
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Hi Sebb. Le ven. 4 août 2023 à 11:29, sebb a écrit : > > This was not a fair poll Sure. [But suggestions to organize a fair (thus official?) poll are usually ignored.] > - it was not open long enough. > Also it is not representative; participation on this list is not > required of projects. > And people participating in the discussion are likely to be in favour. > > I don't think Comdev should be making decisions on behalf of other projects. I don't know about that. INFRA makes decisions too (without asking projects)... > > Note: I am not against alllowing projects to change, but it should not > be forced upon them. I agree with that, but arguably the earlier changes (that ended up in flooding the MLs) were also forced on the projects. In "Commons" at least, there was no poll at all (neither fair, nor otherwise)... Regards, Gilles >>> [...] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
I personally think if it is super easy to change back, I see no problem with making the change. "Ask for forgiveness not for permission". It already happened in the past that someone in the past "forced" the projects to use previous defaults by the fact of defining it. What was the process when it was decided then and how the projects were participating in this decision then? Sure, change is painful, but if in our process we do not allow for a change we are stuck with sometimes bad decisions made in the past. And the only way to change those decisions is well, to change them. There were recent precedents where changes were forced on the projects. Example was the need to "approve" every Github workflow of every external contributor - so it's not that we've never done that. And (contrary to that change) it was not as easy to go back. It requires finding a somewhat hidden policy, opening a JIRA and waiting for approval of INFRA. In this case it's as easy as making a single commit with an update to .asf.yml. J. On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 11:29 AM sebb wrote: > > This was not a fair poll - it was not open long enough. > Also it is not representative; participation on this list is not > required of projects. > And people participating in the discussion are likely to be in favour. > > I don't think Comdev should be making decisions on behalf of other projects. > > Note: I am not against alllowing projects to change, but it should not > be forced upon them. > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 15:56, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > as there seems to be general consent on this, I have taken the liberty to > > prepare the PRs for this: > > https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-event-notifier/pull/12 > > https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-discussions-notifier/pull/2 > > However, have I marked them as DRAFT so they aren’t executed today. > > > > I think it would make sense to send out an email first, notifying projects > > about the coming changes and to define a date to which the changes will be > > applied. > > > > I’d be happy to prepare the email and send it out (once the 72h for this > > POLL are over). > > > > Chris > > > > Von: Christofer Dutz > > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:47 > > An: Volkan Yazıcı > > Betreff: AW: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > Still giving this a bit more time (72 hours in total) as we usually do > > things. > > But yeah … I guess as soon as that time is over, I’ll create an infra > > ticket. > > > > Chris > > > > > > Von: Volkan Yazıcı > > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:39 > > An: Christofer Dutz > > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > Check. Is there (or will there be) an INFRA ticket that I can follow the > > implementation progress? > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:28 AM Christofer Dutz > > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: > > Hi Volkan, > > > > well I won’t be doing anything … also is this not really a vote (as we > > didn’t know if this is something we actually are allowed or able to vote > > on). > > So my plan is to show this thread to Infra to show that there’s general > > support for the proposal. > > > > I really hope they won’t let me jump another hoop, asking me to bring this > > to a vote on Members@. > > > > But sure I think this is worth sending out to committers@ or similar list, > > which will make a wide range of people be informed. > > > > Chris > > > > > > Von: Volkan Yazıcı mailto:vol...@yazi.ci>> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:22 > > An: Christofer Dutz > > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> > > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > [PM'ing to avoid derailing the vote thread.] > > > > Christofer, in the email where you will announce the result, would you mind > > also sharing when the change will take place, please? This will help users > > to know when they shall expect the changes. > > > > Kind regards. > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:46 AM Christofer Dutz > > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: > > Well, > > > > stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > > > > And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your >
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
On 04/08/2023 10:28, sebb wrote: This was not a fair poll - it was not open long enough. Also it is not representative; participation on this list is not required of projects. And people participating in the discussion are likely to be in favour. I don't think Comdev should be making decisions on behalf of other projects. Note: I am not against alllowing projects to change, but it should not be forced upon them. I disagree. Projects may not even realize that improvement is an option. We are trying to make are communities more welcoming / understandable / easier to follow so projects should have to explicitly opt out rather than explicitly opt in. I suggest the following: - announce to projects that the default is changing in X days / weeks (or even months) time - provide instructions for what projects need to do before then to keep the existing format - change the default Mark On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 15:56, Christofer Dutz wrote: Hi all, as there seems to be general consent on this, I have taken the liberty to prepare the PRs for this: https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-event-notifier/pull/12 https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-discussions-notifier/pull/2 However, have I marked them as DRAFT so they aren’t executed today. I think it would make sense to send out an email first, notifying projects about the coming changes and to define a date to which the changes will be applied. I’d be happy to prepare the email and send it out (once the 72h for this POLL are over). Chris Von: Christofer Dutz Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:47 An: Volkan Yazıcı Betreff: AW: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs? Still giving this a bit more time (72 hours in total) as we usually do things. But yeah … I guess as soon as that time is over, I’ll create an infra ticket. Chris Von: Volkan Yazıcı Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:39 An: Christofer Dutz Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs? Check. Is there (or will there be) an INFRA ticket that I can follow the implementation progress? On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:28 AM Christofer Dutz mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: Hi Volkan, well I won’t be doing anything … also is this not really a vote (as we didn’t know if this is something we actually are allowed or able to vote on). So my plan is to show this thread to Infra to show that there’s general support for the proposal. I really hope they won’t let me jump another hoop, asking me to bring this to a vote on Members@. But sure I think this is worth sending out to committers@ or similar list, which will make a wide range of people be informed. Chris Von: Volkan Yazıcı mailto:vol...@yazi.ci>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:22 An: Christofer Dutz mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs? [PM'ing to avoid derailing the vote thread.] Christofer, in the email where you will announce the result, would you mind also sharing when the change will take place, please? This will help users to know when they shall expect the changes. Kind regards. On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:46 AM Christofer Dutz mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: Well, stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. Chris Von: Richard Zowalla mailto:rich...@zowalla.com>> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 An: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> mailto:dev@community.apache.org>> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs? +1 Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk mailto:ja...@potiuk.com>>: +1 On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell mailto:apache@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Christofer, As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm +1 to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had before. Thanks, Craig On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite form anything actionable. Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen many of our lists literally being rendered useless. Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large percentage of the emails are: * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it impossible for ema
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
This was not a fair poll - it was not open long enough. Also it is not representative; participation on this list is not required of projects. And people participating in the discussion are likely to be in favour. I don't think Comdev should be making decisions on behalf of other projects. Note: I am not against alllowing projects to change, but it should not be forced upon them. On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 15:56, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > as there seems to be general consent on this, I have taken the liberty to > prepare the PRs for this: > https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-event-notifier/pull/12 > https://github.com/apache/infrastructure-github-discussions-notifier/pull/2 > However, have I marked them as DRAFT so they aren’t executed today. > > I think it would make sense to send out an email first, notifying projects > about the coming changes and to define a date to which the changes will be > applied. > > I’d be happy to prepare the email and send it out (once the 72h for this POLL > are over). > > Chris > > Von: Christofer Dutz > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:47 > An: Volkan Yazıcı > Betreff: AW: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > Still giving this a bit more time (72 hours in total) as we usually do things. > But yeah … I guess as soon as that time is over, I’ll create an infra ticket. > > Chris > > > Von: Volkan Yazıcı > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:39 > An: Christofer Dutz > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > Check. Is there (or will there be) an INFRA ticket that I can follow the > implementation progress? > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 9:28 AM Christofer Dutz > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: > Hi Volkan, > > well I won’t be doing anything … also is this not really a vote (as we didn’t > know if this is something we actually are allowed or able to vote on). > So my plan is to show this thread to Infra to show that there’s general > support for the proposal. > > I really hope they won’t let me jump another hoop, asking me to bring this to > a vote on Members@. > > But sure I think this is worth sending out to committers@ or similar list, > which will make a wide range of people be informed. > > Chris > > > Von: Volkan Yazıcı mailto:vol...@yazi.ci>> > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 09:22 > An: Christofer Dutz > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > [PM'ing to avoid derailing the vote thread.] > > Christofer, in the email where you will announce the result, would you mind > also sharing when the change will take place, please? This will help users to > know when they shall expect the changes. > > Kind regards. > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 8:46 AM Christofer Dutz > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: > Well, > > stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > > And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your > .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. > > Chris > > > Von: Richard Zowalla mailto:rich...@zowalla.com>> > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 > An: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org> > mailto:dev@community.apache.org>> > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > +1 > > Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk > mailto:ja...@potiuk.com>>: > >+1 > > > >On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell > >mailto:apache@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Christofer, > >> > >> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm > >> > >> +1 > >> > >> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being > >> able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had > >> before. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Craig > >> > >> > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz > >> > mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> wrote: > >> > > >> > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite > >> > form anything actionable. > >> > > >> > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking > >> > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide docs on how to do so Don't force projects to change if they don't want to On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Well, > > stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > > And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured your > .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. > > Chris > > > Von: Richard Zowalla > Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 > An: dev@community.apache.org > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > +1 > > Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk : > >+1 > > > >On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell wrote: > >> > >> Hi Christofer, > >> > >> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm > >> > >> +1 > >> > >> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being > >> able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had > >> before. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Craig > >> > >> > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite > >> > form anything actionable. > >> > > >> > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking > >> > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen > >> > many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > >> > > >> > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a > >> > large percentage of the emails are: > >> > > >> > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > >> > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > >> > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > >> > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > >> > phones. > >> > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists > >> > (notifications@, commits@), having left over only skeletons in which > >> > every now and then a vote is being handled. > >> > > >> > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > >> > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more > >> > condensed version. > >> > > >> > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured > >> > the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > >> > > >> > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > >> > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be > >> > in favor of such a change than not. > >> > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > >> > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default > >> > .asf.yaml snippet. > >> > > >> > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as > >> > “[ISSUE]”, “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add > >> > much information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the > >> > shorter version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email > >> > clients. > >> > > >> > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > >> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > >> > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > >> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > >> > > >> > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > >> > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > >> > > >> > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > >> > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > >> > > >> > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our > >> > core principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the > >> > list, it didn’t happen”). > >> > > >> > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by > >> > you folks here. > >> > > >> > > >> > Chris > >> > > >> > > >> > >> Craig L Russell > >> c...@apache.org > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >> > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1 Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk : >+1 > >On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell wrote: >> >> Hi Christofer, >> >> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm >> >> +1 >> >> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being >> able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had >> before. >> >> Thanks, >> Craig >> >> > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz >> > wrote: >> > >> > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite >> > form anything actionable. >> > >> > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking >> > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen >> > many of our lists literally being rendered useless. >> > >> > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large >> > percentage of the emails are: >> > >> > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it >> > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. >> > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the >> > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile >> > phones. >> > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, >> > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a >> > vote is being handled. >> > >> > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub >> > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more >> > condensed version. >> > >> > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured >> > the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. >> > >> > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these >> > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in >> > favor of such a change than not. >> > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by >> > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default >> > .asf.yaml snippet. >> > >> > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, >> > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much >> > information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the >> > shorter version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email >> > clients. >> > >> > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: >> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 >> > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: >> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 >> > >> > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something >> > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc >> > >> > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if >> > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. >> > >> > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core >> > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it >> > didn’t happen”). >> > >> > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you >> > folks here. >> > >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > >> >> Craig L Russell >> c...@apache.org >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >> > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1 On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell wrote: > > Hi Christofer, > > As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm > > +1 > > to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being > able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had > before. > > Thanks, > Craig > > > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > > > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite > > form anything actionable. > > > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking > > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen > > many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > > > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large > > percentage of the emails are: > > > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > > phones. > > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, > > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a > > vote is being handled. > > > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more condensed > > version. > > > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured > > the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > > > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in > > favor of such a change than not. > > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default > > .asf.yaml snippet. > > > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, > > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much > > information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter > > version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > > > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > > > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core > > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it > > didn’t happen”). > > > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you > > folks here. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > Craig L Russell > c...@apache.org > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Hi Christofer, As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, I'm +1 to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they had before. Thanks, Craig > On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite form > anything actionable. > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking into > every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen many of > our lists literally being rendered useless. > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large > percentage of the emails are: > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a vote > is being handled. > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more condensed > version. > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured the > format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in > favor of such a change than not. > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default .asf.yaml > snippet. > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much information > to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter version > allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it > didn’t happen”). > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you > folks here. > > > Chris > > Craig L Russell c...@apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1, Looks Good!!! -Ayush On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 at 19:08, Johan Corveleyn wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 3:29 PM Volkan Yazıcı wrote: > > @Gary, see the date range in the URLs. > > You might need to manually perform an empty search in those ranges. > > It seems those date ranges in the query string are only taken into > account after a refresh. > Perhaps on first request, if you have no session on lists.a.o, a > session is created and a cookie is set, and the query string is > somehow ignored. > > -- > Johan > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 3:29 PM Volkan Yazıcı wrote: > @Gary, see the date range in the URLs. > You might need to manually perform an empty search in those ranges. It seems those date ranges in the query string are only taken into account after a refresh. Perhaps on first request, if you have no session on lists.a.o, a session is created and a cookie is set, and the query string is somehow ignored. -- Johan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1 @Christofer, thanks for taking care of this. The improvement is undeniable. @Gary, see the date range in the URLs. You might need to manually perform an empty search in those ranges. On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 2:16 PM Christofer Dutz wrote: > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite > form anything actionable. > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen > many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large > percentage of the emails are: > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a > vote is being handled. > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more condensed > version. > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured > the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in > favor of such a change than not. > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default > .asf.yaml snippet. > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much > information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter > version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it > didn’t happen”). > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you > folks here. > > > Chris > > >
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1 for making this change, it will make the mailinglists a lot more readable for humans. @Gary: For example you have multiple mails around a single PR that are not consolidated into a single thread because the username of who commented is in the subject. Cheers, Hans On 1 Aug 2023 at 15:06 +0200, dev@community.apache.org, wrote: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
Hi. Le mar. 1 août 2023 à 14:17, Christofer Dutz a écrit : > > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite form > anything actionable. > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking into > every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen many of > our lists literally being rendered useless. > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large > percentage of the emails are: > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a vote > is being handled. > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more condensed > version. > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured the > format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in > favor of such a change than not. > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default .asf.yaml > snippet. > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much information > to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter version > allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it > didn’t happen”). > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you > folks here. +1 But it's only part of the issue that MLs (made for human-consumption) are more and more colonized with auto-generated content that is next to useless (if just because there is so much of it). Such "content" keeps piling up. In my case, after having reached the point where I needed to delete-click on at least 10 times more such bot-generated messages than "legitimate" ones, it led to establishing a filter where they would go directly to the trash (with the risk of missing the one important message among the hundreds that should not, IMHO, end up there in the first place). Best regards, Gilles - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
I can't tell the difference between https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 and https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 They both use "[PR]". What am I missing? Gary On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 8:17 AM Christofer Dutz wrote: > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t quite > form anything actionable. > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently looking > into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have seen > many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a large > percentage of the emails are: > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes it > impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of the > header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists (notifications@, > commits@), having left over only skeletons in which every now and then a > vote is being handled. > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated GitHub > emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more condensed > version. > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually configured > the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would be in > favor of such a change than not. > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, by > specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default > .asf.yaml snippet. > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as “[ISSUE]”, > “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much > information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter > version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display something > happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely via email: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even if > since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our core > principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, it > didn’t happen”). > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval by you > folks here. > > > Chris > > >
Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to generate GitHub integration email subjecs?
+1 to making this change. It would immediately make our mailing lists more consumable and welcoming to actual humans. Coupled with a page explaining how this works (Oh! Look! There's already one at https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html ) this would be a great service to our communities. On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 12:16 +, Christofer Dutz wrote: > Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t > quite form anything actionable. > > Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently > looking into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I > have seen many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > > Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a > large percentage of the emails are: > > * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes > it impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of > the header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on > mobile phones. > * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists > (notifications@, commits@), having left over only skeletons in which > every now and then a vote is being handled. > > My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated > GitHub emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much > more condensed version. > > With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually > configured the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists > again. > > Some would argue that there might be projects that could object these > changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would > be in favor of such a change than not. > Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, > by specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a > default .asf.yaml snippet. > > Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as > “[ISSUE]”, “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not > add much information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t > and the shorter version allows displaying more of the subject on > mobile email clients. > > Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > > Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display > something happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow > nicely via email: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > > I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, even > if since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that > too. > > I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our > core principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the > list, it didn’t happen”). > > You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval > by you folks here. > > > Chris > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
