Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Jorge Betancourt]

My vote goes to option c.

Best regards,
Jorge

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Myrle Krantz]

(Option C please)

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 12:38 AM Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> +1: creating more links between communities based on commonalities that
> the foundation might be able to leverage is a Great Thing (TM)
>
> Best,
> Myrle
>
> On 2019/06/07 13:43:29, Christofer Dutz 
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for
> intra-project communication.
> > As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at
> Apache I would like your votes on this.
> >
> > As we have the option to create a general purpose list (tech@) or a
> topic-dependent one (iot@) you don’t have the usual +1, 0 and -1, but a),
> b) and c)
> >
> > a) no new list
> > b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used
> with
> > [subject][line][tags] only
> > c) create an iot@a.o list
> >
> > The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Myrle Krantz]

+1: creating more links between communities based on commonalities that the 
foundation might be able to leverage is a Great Thing (TM)

Best,
Myrle

On 2019/06/07 13:43:29, Christofer Dutz  wrote: 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for intra-project 
> communication.
> As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at Apache I 
> would like your votes on this.
> 
> As we have the option to create a general purpose list (tech@) or a 
> topic-dependent one (iot@) you don’t have the usual +1, 0 and -1, but a), b) 
> and c)
> 
> a) no new list
> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
> c) create an iot@a.o list
> 
> The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
> 
> Chris
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Lars Francke]

+1 on c)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:51 PM Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for intra-project
> communication.
> As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at Apache
> I would like your votes on this.
>
> As we have the option to create a general purpose list (tech@) or a
> topic-dependent one (iot@) you don’t have the usual +1, 0 and -1, but a),
> b) and c)
>
> a) no new list
> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
> c) create an iot@a.o list
>
> The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
>
> Chris
>

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[sebb]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:29, Naomi S  wrote:
>
> my mistake, Christofer. I didn't spot that it had been re-started with a
> new discussion
>
> > b) create a tech@a.o<mailto:tech@a.o> list that's expected to be used
> with [subject][line][tags] only
>
> -1 without a moderation team including multiple ComDev PMC members
>
> > c) create an iot@a.o<mailto:iot@a.o> list
>
> -1 for now because we only have one volunteer to moderate this list
>
> additionally, if this is under ComDev's purview, I would like at least one
> moderator from the PMC
>
> naturally, I will change this to a +1 if we get volunteers :)
>

Note that moderators are normally only needed for posts from people
who have not yet subscribed.
If the moderator accepts and allows the post, then future posts from
the same email won't need moderation.

If the lists are subscriber post only (as suggested earlier), then
moderators are only needed to deal with bad posters.

However if you want total control over subject matter and body content
then the list can be set up like announce@, i.e. all posts have to be
moderated.
That would be a lot of work.

> On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:57, Andrew Garza  wrote:
>
> > C)
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 10:50 AM Christofer Dutz 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Then please just read the other lengthy thread on this list. We have had
> > > multiple iterations of discussions about this and there was a general
> > > consensus on establishing A list, this vote should settle the discussion
> > > about which option to take.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Naomi S 
> > > Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 4:45:14 PM
> > > To: ComDev
> > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication
> > >
> > > On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:41, Naomi S  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > consensus building should be used before any options are tabled for
> > > voting
> > > >
> > >
> > >  "tabled" in the British English sense! (i.e., put forward)
> > >
> > > (thanks Joan...)
> > >
> >

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Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:51 PM Christofer Dutz
 wrote:
...
> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only ...

+1 and I volunteer as a moderator.

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 4:50 PM Christofer Dutz
 wrote:
> A list, this vote should settle the discussion about which option to 
> take...

FWIW as I have said, whoever does the work decide - so if you and a
few others from the comdev PMC (I'd say 2-3 moderators are needed) are
willing to oversee a list I'm fine with it being created. With the
risk that the comdev PMC would shut it down if moderators stop being
active.

I do volunteer to moderate a list if it's based on option b)

I'm not competent for an iot list so cannot help with option c)

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Naomi S]

my mistake, Christofer. I didn't spot that it had been re-started with a
new discussion

> b) create a tech@a.o<mailto:tech@a.o> list that's expected to be used
with [subject][line][tags] only

-1 without a moderation team including multiple ComDev PMC members

> c) create an iot@a.o<mailto:iot@a.o> list

-1 for now because we only have one volunteer to moderate this list

additionally, if this is under ComDev's purview, I would like at least one
moderator from the PMC

naturally, I will change this to a +1 if we get volunteers :)


On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:57, Andrew Garza  wrote:

> C)
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 10:50 AM Christofer Dutz 
> wrote:
>
> > Then please just read the other lengthy thread on this list. We have had
> > multiple iterations of discussions about this and there was a general
> > consensus on establishing A list, this vote should settle the discussion
> > about which option to take.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
> >
> > ____________
> > From: Naomi S 
> > Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 4:45:14 PM
> > To: ComDev
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:41, Naomi S  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > consensus building should be used before any options are tabled for
> > voting
> > >
> >
> >  "tabled" in the British English sense! (i.e., put forward)
> >
> > (thanks Joan...)
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Andrew Garza]

C)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 10:50 AM Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Then please just read the other lengthy thread on this list. We have had
> multiple iterations of discussions about this and there was a general
> consensus on establishing A list, this vote should settle the discussion
> about which option to take.
>
> Chris
>
> Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
>
> 
> From: Naomi S 
> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 4:45:14 PM
> To: ComDev
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication
>
> On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:41, Naomi S  wrote:
>
> >
> > consensus building should be used before any options are tabled for
> voting
> >
>
>  "tabled" in the British English sense! (i.e., put forward)
>
> (thanks Joan...)
>

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Christofer Dutz]

Then please just read the other lengthy thread on this list. We have had 
multiple iterations of discussions about this and there was a general consensus 
on establishing A list, this vote should settle the discussion about which 
option to take.

Chris

Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen


From: Naomi S 
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 4:45:14 PM
To: ComDev
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:41, Naomi S  wrote:

>
> consensus building should be used before any options are tabled for voting
>

 "tabled" in the British English sense! (i.e., put forward)

(thanks Joan...)

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Naomi S]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 16:41, Naomi S  wrote:

>
> consensus building should be used before any options are tabled for voting
>

 "tabled" in the British English sense! (i.e., put forward)

(thanks Joan...)

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Naomi S]

On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 15:52, Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for intra-project
> communication.
>

I think we should be cautious about creating new foundation-wide lists.
unless there's an existing group or activity that the list serves, I expect
that it's hard to get critical mass to make the list useful

the recent creation of diversity@ made sense, for example, because a
specific group of people (rather miraculously) emerged who would use the
list. I think it would have not worked to create the diversity@ list first
and then invite people to join it. if that makes sense?

horse before the cart, etc, etc

for intra-project communication, is there a reason why copying multiple
project-specific lists is not a viable option?


> As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at Apache
> I would like your votes on this.
>

I absolutely do not want to contribute stop energy to your efforts here.
having said that, I lack the context behind this proposal. has there been a
discussion somewhere else about this? i.e., are multiple IoT related
projects requesting one?


> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
>

I can't weigh in on (a) or (c) without more information. but (b) seems to
be unrelated to this proposal. is there a feeling that enough people would
subscribe to a gene...@apache.org type list to make it useful?

honestly, my initial concern is community management. who is going to
moderate that list? (specifically, and at a minimum, making sure people
abide by our Code of Conduct). project communities, and their associated
lists, small as they are, can be exhausting to manage. how much more
challenging would that be for a foundation-wide list. and who would do it?


> The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
>

I think it was premature to start a vote. voting is the failure mode of
discussion :)

if you are sure that what you want to do is okay, you can just inform the
list and wait for lazy consensus (i.e., no objections). if a discussion is
started, then consensus building should be used before any options are
tabled for voting

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Christofer Dutz]

c)

Chris

Outlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen


From: Qhoriyah Yusri 
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 4:20:55 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

Pada Jum, 7 Jun 2019 9:51 PM Christofer Dutz 
menulis:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for intra-project
> communication.
> As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at Apache
> I would like your votes on this.
>
> As we have the option to create a general purpose list (tech@) or a
> topic-dependent one (iot@) you don’t have the usual +1, 0 and -1, but a),
> b) and c)
>
> a) no new list
> b) create a tech@a.o<mailto:tech@a.o> list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
> c) create an iot@a.o<mailto:iot@a.o> list
>
> The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
>
> Chris
>

Re: [VOTE] Create a mailinglist for intra-project communication

[Qhoriyah Yusri]

Pada Jum, 7 Jun 2019 9:51 PM Christofer Dutz 
menulis:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose to introduce a new mailing-list for intra-project
> communication.
> As it is my primary goal to help communication in the IoT field at Apache
> I would like your votes on this.
>
> As we have the option to create a general purpose list (tech@) or a
> topic-dependent one (iot@) you don’t have the usual +1, 0 and -1, but a),
> b) and c)
>
> a) no new list
> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
> c) create an iot@a.o list
>
> The vote will stay open for the normal 72 hours.
>
> Chris
>