Re: New Flex to JS project
Alex, Wow! Awesome email, if nothing else then only by weight of the bytes ;-) I'm not sure you entirely get what I'm trying to do, but keeping an open mind I'm looking for ways to combine the two approaches. You seem to be suggesting that VF2JS can exist as an option in FlexJS. We need to explore that idea to see if we might be able to make it work. 1) Currently, FlexJS has it's own AS framework, without any of the Spark/MX components. VF2JS needs those; remember, VF2JS let's users develop their SWF apps in the classic SDK, like they are used to. Do you suggest we merge FlexJS into the current SDK? 2) The FlexJS JS implementation uses data arrays to represent MXML. This means that class member names are stored as strings. The GCC can't rename strings. In order to match the strings to the actual properties, the properties cannot be renamed either - you can't match 'myComponent.width' to 'a.b' ;-) This is why all public properties have the @expose annotation. But here is the kicker: using @expose prevents the GCC from doing a significant amount of optimisations. In VF2JS I'm planning on doing away with the data arrays so we get to use the full force of GCC optimisation and minification, and can do away with the client side dynamic object creation from the array. 3) I'm liking the idea of having FalconJX detect the namespaces it is fed and use that information to decide the compile path. That way if it reads Spark/MX, it would use the VF2JS JS framework, if it reads Basic/Core, if would go the FlexJS route. 4) The organisation of the JS frameworks would need some rethinking. FlexJS also uses the 'flash.display' and 'mx.core'/'mx.states' namespaces. We don't want collisions there. 5) The reason I'm hiding the AS SWC because I don't want to bother the user with having to use different xmlns. It would be sweet though to have Falcon do the switching on the fly, so we get compiler feedback about portability during development, e.g. using a compiler argument indicating you want to also be able to cross compile your code to JS. That way the shim SWCs could still be that, shims, but I like the idea of adding metadata to indicate JS (un)availability. 6) We need to rethink the naming convention. I like FlexJS, it should stay for the name of the AS to JS project. But the various frameworks need different names. On the AS side, after we 'merge', I guess there are 4: Flex (the regular SDK, used by the VF2JS approach), FlexJSUI, FlexJS and MXMLCClasses. On the JS side, there would be lots and lots, some of them (possibly) colliding: see point 4). What is your view on the organisation of these various aspects, especially given that (see point 1) we might merge FlexJS into the regular SDK? That should be enough food for thought ;-) Let's see if we can make this work! EdB -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: New Flex to JS project
On 09/07/14 06:56, Alex Harui wrote: At one point I was told that battery life was going to limit device cpu performance growth rates. Medium. We're already seeing signs of people getting of the upgrade treadmill, and moving to SIM-only deals because their current device is 'good enough'. Manufacturers are noticing, and adding stuff like waterproofing. I'm hopeful they'll give up on 'who's thinner' and instead become a bit thicker and be all battery :-) Tom
Re: IOS 7 and Android 4.3 Skinning
Hi Om, on vacation this week, will see what I can work on when I get back on Monday. Don't want to get a head of the game, but have you looked at Android L yet? We have some time since the official release is not scheduled till fall, they did reskin some of the components. Aaron -- View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/Re-IOS-7-and-Android-4-3-Skinning-tp37835p38964.html Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: New Flex to JS project
On 7/9/14 2:04 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: Alex, Wow! Awesome email, if nothing else then only by weight of the bytes ;-) I'll try to make this one shorter. I'm not sure you entirely get what I'm trying to do, but keeping an open mind I'm looking for ways to combine the two approaches. You seem to be suggesting that VF2JS can exist as an option in FlexJS. We need to explore that idea to see if we might be able to make it work. 1) Currently, FlexJS has it's own AS framework, without any of the Spark/MX components. VF2JS needs those; remember, VF2JS let's users develop their SWF apps in the classic SDK, like they are used to. Do you suggest we merge FlexJS into the current SDK? Again, FlexJS hopes to support multiple AS frameworks. Eventually we'll carve the Jquery, Cordova, and CreateJS stuff out of the current basic SWC and JS folders into their own SWCs and JS folders. There will be separate SWCs and JS folders for Angular and whatever JS frameworks folks want to wrap. The compiler/namespace stuff should support this already, just like folks can use non-Flex SWCs in AS-only projects. I don't think we need to merge these SWC/folder sets into the main SDK as they don't have any reliance on the SDK code and will simplify development and releasing by maintaining separation. But VJS can be packaged in whatever way makes sense. FlexJS installs already pull in MXMLC jars from the current SDK, the VJS SWCs can certainly rely on current Flex SDK SWCs. All of the FlexJS SWCs rely on playerglobal.swc. All that should matter is what SWCs are listed in the config at compile time. 2) The FlexJS JS implementation uses data arrays to represent MXML. This means that class member names are stored as strings. The GCC can't rename strings. In order to match the strings to the actual properties, the properties cannot be renamed either - you can't match 'myComponent.width' to 'a.b' ;-) This is why all public properties have the @expose annotation. But here is the kicker: using @expose prevents the GCC from doing a significant amount of optimisations. In VF2JS I'm planning on doing away with the data arrays so we get to use the full force of GCC optimisation and minification, and can do away with the client side dynamic object creation from the array. The data array output is just a flag in Falcon (compiler.mxml.children-as-data). If you want it to be off for VJS compiles that's fine. There's probably some tweaks needed when you turn that off. One of the reasons I set up MXML as data is that several folks have asked to be able to modify the MXML output and the data array was the only way I could think of to do that without sacrificing performance. I'm open to other options. Folks may ask that of VJS MXML compilation as well. 3) I'm liking the idea of having FalconJX detect the namespaces it is fed and use that information to decide the compile path. That way if it reads Spark/MX, it would use the VF2JS JS framework, if it reads Basic/Core, if would go the FlexJS route. I was thinking it might be not too hard to add -namespace-override=oldURI$newURI. I still want to do it in Falcon so you find out early instead of at cross-compile time. I think we probably need a package/import override too for AS code. 4) The organisation of the JS frameworks would need some rethinking. FlexJS also uses the 'flash.display' and 'mx.core'/'mx.states' namespaces. We don't want collisions there. Oh yes. A good name scrub and folder re-org is definitely needed. I'm not good at it and hope someone who is will step up. 5) The reason I'm hiding the AS SWC because I don't want to bother the user with having to use different xmlns. It would be sweet though to have Falcon do the switching on the fly, so we get compiler feedback about portability during development, e.g. using a compiler argument indicating you want to also be able to cross compile your code to JS. That way the shim SWCs could still be that, shims, but I like the idea of adding metadata to indicate JS (un)availability. Yeah, either metadata and/or some other data file to inform the compiler. We probably can't modify playerglobal.swc so we might need an external file for that. Or we could shim playerglobal... 6) We need to rethink the naming convention. I like FlexJS, it should stay for the name of the AS to JS project. But the various frameworks need different names. On the AS side, after we 'merge', I guess there are 4: Flex (the regular SDK, used by the VF2JS approach), FlexJSUI, FlexJS and MXMLCClasses. On the JS side, there would be lots and lots, some of them (possibly) colliding: see point 4). What is your view on the organisation of these various aspects, especially given that (see point 1) we might merge FlexJS into the regular SDK? Definitely open to ideas on renaming and reorganizing. IMO, the SWCs and JS folders that don't have a reliance on the current SDK should probably not be merged into the current SDK. I hope to attract
Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex June 2014 Report
What do I do once I sign this? There are a few projects I'd like to donate besides signing off on TLF work. On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:55 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: Just to be sure (and get the legal stuff completely out of the way): http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Thanks for your contributions up till now and in the future! EdB On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:33 AM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote: Harbs owns the code I commit on this project but if it will speed things along then by all means send me the ICLA. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: IMO, there is no real need to do this in the open. It was just a hope of mine that it would be done in the open... The way we've (I've) been doing it is to commit and if either of us see anything to discuss it and revert if need be. I wouldn't say all the commits are production quality since some of it's experimental but those cases are mentioned in the commits messages. It would be great to have more eyes on it. The whiteboard thing might be good as a sort of sandbox during development. Can others follow white board commits? Aside: Maybe there could be an intermediate position to being a commiter? Or you grant white board privileges. This would let developers who want to work on the SDK or parts of it but may not have all the expertise get started. The experienced developers could help by working with them and bringing them up as Flex padiwan learners. This would allow more people to work on the SDK and learn as they go? When they're ready they can graduate to a full committer role. -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: New Flex to JS project
I wouldn’t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I’m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don’t understand how the two could work together. On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
Re: New Flex to JS project
On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both better connectors and a schematic diagram (MXML). -Alex On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
Re: New Flex to JS project
Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both better connectors and a schematic diagram (MXML). -Alex On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex June 2014 Report
Send it to 'secret...@apache.org'. Once the form is processed, the PMC will get notice and your donations can start. EdB On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 5:37 PM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote: What do I do once I sign this? There are a few projects I'd like to donate besides signing off on TLF work. On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:55 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: Just to be sure (and get the legal stuff completely out of the way): http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Thanks for your contributions up till now and in the future! EdB On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:33 AM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote: Harbs owns the code I commit on this project but if it will speed things along then by all means send me the ICLA. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: IMO, there is no real need to do this in the open. It was just a hope of mine that it would be done in the open... The way we've (I've) been doing it is to commit and if either of us see anything to discuss it and revert if need be. I wouldn't say all the commits are production quality since some of it's experimental but those cases are mentioned in the commits messages. It would be great to have more eyes on it. The whiteboard thing might be good as a sort of sandbox during development. Can others follow white board commits? Aside: Maybe there could be an intermediate position to being a commiter? Or you grant white board privileges. This would let developers who want to work on the SDK or parts of it but may not have all the expertise get started. The experienced developers could help by working with them and bringing them up as Flex padiwan learners. This would allow more people to work on the SDK and learn as they go? When they're ready they can graduate to a full committer role. -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: New Flex to JS project
FWIW, here’s some Angular-compatible components: http://angular-ui.github.io/ http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/ http://angular-ui.github.io/ng-grid/ and a whole site dedicated to cataloging Angular modules (some of it UI, and some of it business logic): http://ngmodules.org/ As you can see, except for the basic HTML elements, any UI that is used with Angular is going to be external modules from either existing UI frameworks (i.e. Bootstrap), or ones built specifically for Angular. None of these are part of the core Angular framework. I do think that for FlexJS to be successful, we would need some kind of public catalog of external modules (components) similar to the ngmodules site. On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both better connectors and a schematic diagram (MXML). -Alex On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
Re: New Flex to JS project
OK, I'll try to find time to read up on Angular. It does appear that TypeScript works with Angular. My rudimentary understanding of this stuff says that if you can use TS you should be able to use AS as well, but I could certainly be wrong. -Alex On 7/9/14 10:43 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, here’s some Angular-compatible components: http://angular-ui.github.io/ http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/ http://angular-ui.github.io/ng-grid/ and a whole site dedicated to cataloging Angular modules (some of it UI, and some of it business logic): http://ngmodules.org/ As you can see, except for the basic HTML elements, any UI that is used with Angular is going to be external modules from either existing UI frameworks (i.e. Bootstrap), or ones built specifically for Angular. None of these are part of the core Angular framework. I do think that for FlexJS to be successful, we would need some kind of public catalog of external modules (components) similar to the ngmodules site. On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both better connectors and a schematic diagram (MXML). -Alex On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex June 2014 Report
FWIW, donations of existing code bases may require a separate form and ip clearance process. I'll help you through it if needed. On 7/9/14 10:13 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: Send it to 'secret...@apache.org'. Once the form is processed, the PMC will get notice and your donations can start. EdB On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 5:37 PM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote: What do I do once I sign this? There are a few projects I'd like to donate besides signing off on TLF work. On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:55 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote: Just to be sure (and get the legal stuff completely out of the way): http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Thanks for your contributions up till now and in the future! EdB On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:33 AM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote: Harbs owns the code I commit on this project but if it will speed things along then by all means send me the ICLA. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: IMO, there is no real need to do this in the open. It was just a hope of mine that it would be done in the open... The way we've (I've) been doing it is to commit and if either of us see anything to discuss it and revert if need be. I wouldn't say all the commits are production quality since some of it's experimental but those cases are mentioned in the commits messages. It would be great to have more eyes on it. The whiteboard thing might be good as a sort of sandbox during development. Can others follow white board commits? Aside: Maybe there could be an intermediate position to being a commiter? Or you grant white board privileges. This would let developers who want to work on the SDK or parts of it but may not have all the expertise get started. The experienced developers could help by working with them and bringing them up as Flex padiwan learners. This would allow more people to work on the SDK and learn as they go? When they're ready they can graduate to a full committer role. -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: New Flex to JS project
Hmm. I might have been misunderstanding you. I thought you were discussing getting FlexJS with mxml markup, data binding and everything else to work with Angular. That’s what I don’t see as a fit. If you mean to simply write Angular applications in AS instead of JS and cross-compile using FalconJX, then yes, that should (probably) work. Besides TypeScript, you can also use CoffeeScript as well as Angular Dart. I can see an argument to write Angular in AS, but that is just utilizing the compiler, rather than the FlexJS framework as a whole. I also don’t think that it makes sense to create an ActionScript compile target for Angular apps. Harbs On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: OK, I'll try to find time to read up on Angular. It does appear that TypeScript works with Angular. My rudimentary understanding of this stuff says that if you can use TS you should be able to use AS as well, but I could certainly be wrong. -Alex On 7/9/14 10:43 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, here’s some Angular-compatible components: http://angular-ui.github.io/ http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/ http://angular-ui.github.io/ng-grid/ and a whole site dedicated to cataloging Angular modules (some of it UI, and some of it business logic): http://ngmodules.org/ As you can see, except for the basic HTML elements, any UI that is used with Angular is going to be external modules from either existing UI frameworks (i.e. Bootstrap), or ones built specifically for Angular. None of these are part of the core Angular framework. I do think that for FlexJS to be successful, we would need some kind of public catalog of external modules (components) similar to the ngmodules site. On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both better connectors and a schematic diagram (MXML). -Alex On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: I hope to attract Jquery, Angular, CreateJS experts and fans to build out these frameworks and making them wade through the current SDK would probably be an inhibitor to them.
[ANNOUNCE] Radiate IDE 0.0.1 is now an open source project
Starting today Radiate IDE is an open source project. Radiate is to you and I a hybrid of Flash Builder design view, Flash Catalyst, Dreamweaver with some elements of PS and AI and code generation. Here's the fancy formal marketing description: *Product* *Radiate is a multiplatform web and application design and development program that changes the way software is made. With Radiate anyone can create professional website, web application or mobile app within a visual design environment in a fraction of the time without loss of functionality. Since you can generate and then view the code from a visual design it can be used as a learning tool. It can also run in the browser giving you the ability to work or comment on a project without installing software. Since it supports multiple programming languages you can use it with the language of your choice. It also integrates with Wordpress to allow you to visual design and edit themes. * *It is not only a developer tool. Just as much attention is given to the designer. A designer can import a Photoshop design and continue to work on it with the features they know and love. But now they can add interactivity to it and turn it into a website or application.* *If you have ever done any of of these you will know the tremendous amount of work that is involved. With this software what used to take weeks or months will now take days. * *Technology * *When creating any type of software you use multiple pieces of technology. Photoshop and Illustrator are used to design the prototype, mockup tools are used to test the UI, code tools are used to write the software and rarely are they compatible with each other. * *In application and website development half of the project is converting the design into workable code. You must export the designs piece by piece and then write code that reproduces the design. If the client changes the design weeks of work may have to be converted again. This conversion is done on the fly with this software. * *This work is built in such a way that it can be used as a foundation to build additional products such as Text Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations and so on to create a Google Drive, Microsoft Office, etc. where multiple types of documents are available and compatible with each other (partially through MXML input and output) to be updated and exported to other formats and languages. * *Notes* This is in an progress project. While what is there took a lot of work this isn't a complete design studio type of project; it's more like a getting started type of thing. It's direction is based on the community. I'd like it to be a foundation we can improve on and use to build great software. You can read more on goals and setup here https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Setting+up+the+Radiate+Development+Environment. It's made the way it is because I want a tool that will do all or part of my job for me. For example, right now it's just at the early point where I can create a design and layout it will generate the HTML markup and CSS or MXML and I can copy and paste that into my project. That's what I'm using it for now but I hope it will be able to augment my work much more in time. It's not there yet. I'd like to be able to get a psd or image and import that into the program and then create the layout over the top of the background image. Then have that markup to use where I need it. I can also import basic MXML and it will generate HTML markup. That's useful to me. I'd also like to get more people into Flex. We can put this up online and let people create a layout visually and see the MXML and how easy it is to export that to an app or website. But what you need it to do may be different. We need to think about where want it to be a year from now. Let me know your thoughts.
Re: New Flex to JS project
Well, like I said, I'm not an expert on this stuff. My brief look at Angular gave me the impression that it was about declarative markup for an extensible component model. I think that's what we have too. The key point that I'm not sure is sticking with folks is that FlexJS may have a default framework, but I really want it to be framework-agnostic. A framework developer can implement, mimic or mock the JS components from some JS framework in an AS SWC to enable the application developer to glue their favorite JS components together with AS. Then the final cross-compiled output has a much better chance of working correctly, and the net should be better developer productivity. -Alex On 7/9/14 11:13 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I might have been misunderstanding you. I thought you were discussing getting FlexJS with mxml markup, data binding and everything else to work with Angular. That’s what I don’t see as a fit. If you mean to simply write Angular applications in AS instead of JS and cross-compile using FalconJX, then yes, that should (probably) work. Besides TypeScript, you can also use CoffeeScript as well as Angular Dart. I can see an argument to write Angular in AS, but that is just utilizing the compiler, rather than the FlexJS framework as a whole. I also don’t think that it makes sense to create an ActionScript compile target for Angular apps. Harbs On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: OK, I'll try to find time to read up on Angular. It does appear that TypeScript works with Angular. My rudimentary understanding of this stuff says that if you can use TS you should be able to use AS as well, but I could certainly be wrong. -Alex On 7/9/14 10:43 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, here’s some Angular-compatible components: http://angular-ui.github.io/ http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/ http://angular-ui.github.io/ng-grid/ and a whole site dedicated to cataloging Angular modules (some of it UI, and some of it business logic): http://ngmodules.org/ As you can see, except for the basic HTML elements, any UI that is used with Angular is going to be external modules from either existing UI frameworks (i.e. Bootstrap), or ones built specifically for Angular. None of these are part of the core Angular framework. I do think that for FlexJS to be successful, we would need some kind of public catalog of external modules (components) similar to the ngmodules site. On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think there is a lot of pain in writing and debugging the JS code that glues the components together (the rest of the pain is probably in browser-specific issues). TypeScript seems to have reached the same conclusion and offers a new language to do the gluing. I'd say Dart and GWT also have the same thoughts. FlexJS has the potential to be on-par or better as a way to do the gluing. We have IDEs, we have runtime verification, and we have declarative markup in MXML. Think of it this way. If IKEA or other assemble-it-yourself furniture makers shipped you a box of pieces cut to size and then just nails and screws and pre-drilled holes, you'd make a lot of mistakes building the furniture. Instead, these manufacturers use special connectors making it much more clear what goes where and making it impossible to make certain kinds of errors. IMO, classes are those special connectors. JS is just nails and screws. In JS, you can attach anything to anything and won't find out until much later. In FlexJS, we can offer both
Re: New Flex to JS project
It seems to me there’s a question of perception as to what “Flex” is. Historically, Flex has been an application framework centered around components. The equivalent in the JS world would probably be something like Sencha’s UI frameworks. (i.e. ext js) or JQuery UI. So, when people hear “Flex” they think “application lego”. Flex also has the functionality of the class of frameworks (in the js world) like Ember or Angular which deal mostly with data consumption and data binding. Very little lego there. It’s more the glue that holds stuff together. We also have the Falcon compiler which enables cross-compiling ActionScript irrespective of the application components (ala ext js) or the application “glue” ala Angular. It seems to me that to call all of these things “FlexJS” seems too broad to prevent confusion. It seems to me that there needs to be a distinction between these different areas of capabilities. Thoughts? On Jul 10, 2014, at 12:43 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: Well, like I said, I'm not an expert on this stuff. My brief look at Angular gave me the impression that it was about declarative markup for an extensible component model. I think that's what we have too. The key point that I'm not sure is sticking with folks is that FlexJS may have a default framework, but I really want it to be framework-agnostic. A framework developer can implement, mimic or mock the JS components from some JS framework in an AS SWC to enable the application developer to glue their favorite JS components together with AS. Then the final cross-compiled output has a much better chance of working correctly, and the net should be better developer productivity. -Alex On 7/9/14 11:13 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I might have been misunderstanding you. I thought you were discussing getting FlexJS with mxml markup, data binding and everything else to work with Angular. That’s what I don’t see as a fit. If you mean to simply write Angular applications in AS instead of JS and cross-compile using FalconJX, then yes, that should (probably) work. Besides TypeScript, you can also use CoffeeScript as well as Angular Dart. I can see an argument to write Angular in AS, but that is just utilizing the compiler, rather than the FlexJS framework as a whole. I also don’t think that it makes sense to create an ActionScript compile target for Angular apps. Harbs On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: OK, I'll try to find time to read up on Angular. It does appear that TypeScript works with Angular. My rudimentary understanding of this stuff says that if you can use TS you should be able to use AS as well, but I could certainly be wrong. -Alex On 7/9/14 10:43 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, here’s some Angular-compatible components: http://angular-ui.github.io/ http://angular-ui.github.io/bootstrap/ http://angular-ui.github.io/ng-grid/ and a whole site dedicated to cataloging Angular modules (some of it UI, and some of it business logic): http://ngmodules.org/ As you can see, except for the basic HTML elements, any UI that is used with Angular is going to be external modules from either existing UI frameworks (i.e. Bootstrap), or ones built specifically for Angular. None of these are part of the core Angular framework. I do think that for FlexJS to be successful, we would need some kind of public catalog of external modules (components) similar to the ngmodules site. On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:11 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: Angular is not really components. It’s more the glue that holds the components together. Basically, the selling point of Angular is how it binds javascript to HTML. Building custom Angular components is the hardest part of using the framework (and for the most part is not part of the framework itself). They call them “directives” and they have very unintuitive json markup that goes with the js code. Angular pretty strongly prescribes how the app is put together and it’s comprised of HTML template and directive files which comprise the view, and controller/factory/service files which comprise the model and controller. On Jul 9, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote: On 7/9/14 9:16 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn¹t call myself an expert on the subject, but I have had the opportunity to familiarize myself with both Angular and Create.js the past half year. Create.js makes sense to integrate into FlexJS. I¹m not sure I understand how Angular would/could be integrated. It seems to me that Angular is a competing framework and I don¹t understand how the two could work together. IMO, most JS frameworks offer a set of components that you glue together with JS. I'm not an expert on these frameworks, but I think Angular is one of them. Assuming the JS framework is not buggy, I think
Re: Hi, about my experimental/VF2JS branch
José, I'm confused. What was I doing wrong that made this necessary? EdB On Thursday, July 10, 2014, Jose Barragan josebarra...@apache.org wrote: Hi Erik, While I was preparing to reactivate the maven branch of falcon's project, I have taken the opportunity to rebase your new branch VF2JS, onto the latest develop commit, with the intention that you get the new branch and could continue your develop on it, using “git rebase” to maintain your branch updated until the merge time. If you don’t feel happy with this proposal, feel free to completely remove it, but if you feel confortable with new branch and git practice, we can completely remove the old current branch version VS2JS. I was only tried to help, with our git usage on apache flex repositories. Thanks, __ *Jose Barragan* *Senior Software Engineer* *josebarra...@apache.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','josebarra...@apache.org');* -- Ix Multimedia Software Jan Luykenstraat 27 3521 VB Utrecht T. 06-51952295 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: New Flex to JS project
On 7/9/14 3:32 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me there¹s a question of perception as to what ³Flex² is. Historically, Flex has been an application framework centered around components. The equivalent in the JS world would probably be something like Sencha¹s UI frameworks. (i.e. ext js) or JQuery UI. So, when people hear ³Flex² they think ³application lego². Flex also has the functionality of the class of frameworks (in the js world) like Ember or Angular which deal mostly with data consumption and data binding. Very little lego there. It¹s more the glue that holds stuff together. We also have the Falcon compiler which enables cross-compiling ActionScript irrespective of the application components (ala ext js) or the application ³glue² ala Angular. It seems to me that to call all of these things ³FlexJS² seems too broad to prevent confusion. It seems to me that there needs to be a distinction between these different areas of capabilities. Thoughts? Awesome. I liked your breakdown of the pieces. I'm definitely open to ideas around naming. Hopefully others will offer ideas as well. I'm still trying to understand why you don't think there is lego in Angular. I'm not saying you're wrong because all I've really done is read some of the web-site stuff. The web-site at [1] looks like it is introducing custom HTML UI tags. I thought that was also part of the reason for its name (the angle brackets in HTML). [1] https://angularjs.org -Alex
