Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
David Crossley wrote: DC I think that it confuses people. Forrest can have multiple DC source input formats, so this description conflicts with that. I changed that back an forth a couple of times and finally took 'formats' out. Not just because the repetition sounds bad, but mostly because to me 'input formats' suggests file of different formats (whereas I wanted to broaden the meaning to all input including databases, streams etc.) DC I had never heard of the term, so i had to Google. DC The results did not help to allay my concern. Yes, this may be an important issue since we also address a lot of programmers looking for documentation. How about spending an extra word on 'Apache Forrest is a standards-based framework for documentation and Single Source Publishing' DC This term unified output has lost the intention DC of what Ross suggested earlier in this thread. DC So if we are not using the original meaning then DC i think that we should dump it. I wouldn't drop it because I consider the unifying function is one of the most important features for both documentation and SSP. I figured I could cut it short because this won't be self-explanatory for people anyway. Looking up the original text RG Thus Forrest can present a unified document structure and design at the RG output stage regardless of the chosen input formats. Not sure the meaning gets lost, but we can always write something like 'Apache Forrest is a standards-based framework for documentation and Single Source Publishing, transforming different input to a unified document structure and design at the output stage' DC Do we really need to mention a limited list of output formats? I definitely would because these are the foundation for most publishing tasks. So here extensibility is nice, but the fact that we do HTML and PDF out of the box will be more important for perhaps 90% of the users. Or am I missing something? -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
Ferdinand Soethe wrote: David Crossley wrote: DC I think that it confuses people. Forrest can have multiple DC source input formats, so this description conflicts with that. I changed that back an forth a couple of times and finally took 'formats' out. Not just because the repetition sounds bad, but mostly because to me 'input formats' suggests file of different formats (whereas I wanted to broaden the meaning to all input including databases, streams etc.) DC I had never heard of the term, so i had to Google. DC The results did not help to allay my concern. Yes, this may be an important issue since we also address a lot of programmers looking for documentation. How about spending an extra word on 'Apache Forrest is a standards-based framework for documentation and Single Source Publishing' Let me try to say it another way: I am very unhappy with this term Single Source Publishing. Forrest does not restrict people to a single source. I can devise a sitemap that gets various input from many different sources and aggregates it. That is not single source. DC This term unified output has lost the intention DC of what Ross suggested earlier in this thread. DC So if we are not using the original meaning then DC i think that we should dump it. I wouldn't drop it because I consider the unifying function is one of the most important features for both documentation and SSP. I figured I could cut it short because this won't be self-explanatory for people anyway. Looking up the original text RG Thus Forrest can present a unified document structure and design at the RG output stage regardless of the chosen input formats. Not sure the meaning gets lost, but we can always write something like 'Apache Forrest is a standards-based framework for documentation and Single Source Publishing, transforming different input to a unified document structure and design at the output stage' That is getting back to the original idea, except for the single source bit. DC Do we really need to mention a limited list of output formats? I definitely would because these are the foundation for most publishing tasks. So here extensibility is nice, but the fact that we do HTML and PDF out of the box will be more important for perhaps 90% of the users. Or am I missing something? The limited nature of the list. Many products can output HTML and PDF. It seems to limit the idea of multiple outputs. Also, tacking the words HTML and PDF onto the end of unified output doesn't seem to work. HTML is a mess, not unified. Anyway, i am not going to fight that one if people want to mention specific outputs. My main gripe is the SSP. --David
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
David Crossley wrote: Ferdinand Soethe wrote: David Crossley wrote: DC I think that it confuses people. Forrest can have multiple DC source input formats, so this description conflicts with that. I changed that back an forth a couple of times and finally took 'formats' out. Not just because the repetition sounds bad, but mostly because to me 'input formats' suggests file of different formats (whereas I wanted to broaden the meaning to all input including databases, streams etc.) DC I had never heard of the term, so i had to Google. DC The results did not help to allay my concern. Yes, this may be an important issue since we also address a lot of programmers looking for documentation. How about spending an extra word on 'Apache Forrest is a standards-based framework for documentation and Single Source Publishing' Let me try to say it another way: I am very unhappy with this term Single Source Publishing. Forrest does not restrict people to a single source. I can devise a sitemap that gets various input from many different sources and aggregates it. That is not single source. The definition of single source publishing is that you can create many output formats from a single input format (the number on hit on google right now is http://www.lodestar2.com/people/dyork/talks/2002/ols/docbook-tutorial/ this demonstrates outputting many files from a single source document). However, I see your point, it could be interpreted as meaning that Forrest only supports a single input format. There are not enough words to clarify this in this short description so we need to remove this ambiguity and it was not there in the previous version. DC Do we really need to mention a limited list of output formats? I definitely would because these are the foundation for most publishing tasks. So here extensibility is nice, but the fact that we do HTML and PDF out of the box will be more important for perhaps 90% of the users. Or am I missing something? The limited nature of the list. Many products can output HTML and PDF. It seems to limit the idea of multiple outputs. Also, tacking the words HTML and PDF onto the end of unified output doesn't seem to work. HTML is a mess, not unified. Anyway, i am not going to fight that one if people want to mention specific outputs. My main gripe is the SSP. I'm with David on this one. Just as SSP could give the impression of limiting inputs the mention of HTML and PDF could give the impression of limiting outputs. I'd say stick with what we had (and I'm away from the office for most of the next two days so I'll leave it to you folk to sort out). Ross
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
Ross Gardler wrote: RG I'd say stick with what we had I agree. No point in having a lengthy discussion. To a large extent it depends on the perspective you have and the background you come from. So if you feel happier with it, just ignore my proposal and stick with the previous text. -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
Ross Gardler wrote: In that case I may have liked it because of the work Ferdinand and I are doing on the ApacheCon presentation. I'm used to his words etc. Stick to the original if this new one is confusing. We can enhance the original. Ferdinand, i don't mean to dismiss any of your contribution. --David
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
David Crossley wrote: DC We can enhance the original. Ferdinand, i don't mean DC to dismiss any of your contribution. OK, that's fine by me. Just go ahead and change what bugged you about it. On the other hand: A lot of people put their mind on improving the previous text, so may be it was not such a great idea for me to come up with something totally different. It might help to hear some more voices on this? -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 10:25 +0200, Ferdinand Soethe wrote: David Crossley wrote: DC We can enhance the original. Ferdinand, i don't mean DC to dismiss any of your contribution. OK, that's fine by me. Just go ahead and change what bugged you about it. On the other hand: A lot of people put their mind on improving the previous text, so may be it was not such a great idea for me to come up with something totally different. It might help to hear some more voices on this? To be honest I can understand your SSP approach and I can see why it seems to be limiting, but I would prefer when we have a vote with the different proposals and then see which one wins. ...I could not find a translation for: Worte sind nur Schall und Rauch ;-) salu2 -- thorsten Together we stand, divided we fall! Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 11:25 +0200, Johannes Schaefer wrote: Thorsten Scherler wrote: On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 10:25 +0200, Ferdinand Soethe wrote: David Crossley wrote: DC We can enhance the original. Ferdinand, i don't mean DC to dismiss any of your contribution. OK, that's fine by me. Just go ahead and change what bugged you about it. On the other hand: A lot of people put their mind on improving the previous text, so may be it was not such a great idea for me to come up with something totally different. It might help to hear some more voices on this? Would like to comment, but I'm not sure if I'll find the time to read the thread :-( To be honest I can understand your SSP approach and I can see why it seems to be limiting, but I would prefer when we have a vote with the different proposals and then see which one wins. ...I could not find a translation for: Worte sind nur Schall und Rauch ;-) How about (pretty free translation, though) - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) Thanks Nicola! :) Doh. lol. Nice one josch, (...and congrats to your first commit). ;-) salu2 Here are some other close hits http://makeashorterlink.com/?D23A228FA Johannes salu2 -- thorsten Together we stand, divided we fall! Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 21:51 +1000, David Crossley wrote: The Apache voting system is not used to settle competing views. It is intended to ensure that people are happy with the proposed course. If a vote fails then we go back to the proposal stage and come up with something different. You mean we cannot decide between two proposals? That is new because I have seen it a lot on other list. I was thing about: - alternative A - alternative B ...but if you say that is not possible,... salu2 -- thorsten Together we stand, divided we fall! Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
Ferdinand Soethe wrote: Ross Gardler wrote: RG I'd say stick with what we had I agree. No point in having a lengthy discussion. To a large extent it depends on the perspective you have and the background you come from. So if you feel happier with it, just ignore my proposal and stick with the previous text. Here is the new version trying to take some of Ferdinand's words into account. If no-one has anything more to add or change, then i will go ahead and use this. Apache Forrest is a standards-based documentation framework using a plugin architecture to transform and aggregate various input sources into various output formats. It is modular and extensible, based on Apache Cocoon, to emphasise the strict separation of presentation and content. This creates a unified document collection that can be used as a dynamic application, or generated at the command-line, or generated and deployed with an automated publishing application. --David
Re: describe Forrest in 50 words
David Crossley wrote: ... The Apache voting system is not used to settle competing views. It is intended to ensure that people are happy with the proposed course. How true! +1 :-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) -
Re: [Plugin] PDA or Sidebar output plugin ?
Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote: Does anyone work on a plugin to generate a simple version of the site (for Mozilla/firefox sidebar or for PDA ?) I do not know if someone is working on it, but it would be nice at least to do some research and put the result on a bug. This way someone could start working. WDYT? Cheers, Cheche
Re: svn commit: r165014 - /forrest/trunk/Forrest Program
Thorsten Scherler wrote: TS Are you sure about your two commits? No, I seem to have a problem with the Eclipse SVN plugin. But why two? So far SVN web has only shown one (165014). Since I don't want to touch the eclipse plugin until I know what is going wrong and why, I'd appreciate if you'd revert the changes I made. -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: svn commit: r165014 - /forrest/trunk/Forrest Program
Ferdinand Soethe wrote: FS I'd appreciate if you'd revert the changes I made. OK, I found a way to revoke that commit. So what is the second one? -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: svn commit: r165014 - /forrest/trunk/Forrest Program
Ferdinand Soethe wrote: FS So what is the second one? OK, now I see it. Revoked 165015 as well. Sorry for the mess folks. I hope I've cleaned it up properly. -- Ferdinand Soethe
Re: svn commit: r165014 - /forrest/trunk/Forrest Program
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 20:18 +0200, Ferdinand Soethe wrote: Ferdinand Soethe wrote: FS So what is the second one? OK, now I see it. Revoked 165015 as well. Sorry for the mess folks. I hope I've cleaned it up properly. No worries, no harm done. ...and yes you did. :) Sorry I could not answer earlier. welcome to the committer world of forrest. :) ...and keep on committing, we all started by doing mistakes (in my first commit in lenya I deleted a couple of libs ;-)) but you will get more experience everyday - Übung macht den Meister ;-). salu2 -- thorsten Together we stand, divided we fall! Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Plugin] PDA or Sidebar output plugin ?
On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 18:07 +0200, Juan Jose Pablos wrote: Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote: Does anyone work on a plugin to generate a simple version of the site (for Mozilla/firefox sidebar or for PDA ?) I do not know if someone is working on it, but it would be nice at least to do some research and put the result on a bug. This way someone could start working. WDYT? I guess cheche invited you start this plugin. ;-) If you do and run into problems just write to this list and we will try to help you. salu2 -- thorsten Together we stand, divided we fall! Hey you (Pink Floyd)
new PMC member: Johannes Schaefer
The Project Management Committee (PMC) for Apache Forrest has asked Johannes Schaefer to become a committer and a member of the PMC and he has accepted. Johannes has obviously been using Forrest in a demanding environment and is uncovering a number of important bugs, documenting them in the issue tracker and where possible, doing initial evaluation of the problem. He has contributed new plugins and various code fixes. He has also assisted other users and contributed to the development discussion. He has generally demonstrated commitment to the project. Being a committer enables him to more easily make changes and so not need to go via the patch submission process. This should enable better productivity. Being a PMC member enables him to assist with the management and to guide the direction of the project. Welcome to Johannes. --David
Re: [Documentation] Mistake
Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote: http://forrest.apache.org/0.7/docs/plugins/index.html description of org.apache.forrest.plugin.input.dtdx Plugin : ... generate automa*g*ically some ... The original author perhaps intended it as a joke. http://forrest.apache.org/0.7/docs/dtd-docs.html Don't think there is something magic in it ? ;-) Are you sure? :-) Lots of Forrest/Cocoon is so clever and sometimes arcane, that it seems like magic. I removed the obscure joke in SVN. --David
[JIRA] Commented: (FOR-487) generate announcement text from the status.xml
The following comment has been added to this issue: Author: David Crossley Created: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:25 PM Body: Moving Ross' suggestion over from task FOR-454 ... I would like to make a suggestion for this issue which will save us time on future releases. If we add an attribute to the action element in skinconfig called announce with a value of true or false (default to false) we can auto generate the announcement of new features.. Furthermore, if we add an element upgrade which contains a textual description of how to upgrade from the previous version we can generate the upgrade document too. These documents, being auto generated would build during the developmentof the project making it easier for someone to return to the project after a while away. I would therefore suggest that in fixing this issue for the 0.7 release we focus on adding this information to status.xml and writing the necessary stylesheets. Remember we only need to produce XDoc as Forrest will give us a neat text version of the document. - View this comment: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-487?page=comments#action_12278 - View the issue: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-487 Here is an overview of the issue: - Key: FOR-487 Summary: generate announcement text from the status.xml Type: New Feature Status: Unassigned Priority: Minor Project: Forrest Components: Plugins (general issues) Fix Fors: 0.8 Versions: 0.7-dev Assignee: Reporter: David Crossley Created: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:23 PM Updated: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:25 PM Description: By adding some attributes to the actions in status.xml we would be able to use certain entries for the announcement text. - JIRA INFORMATION: This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://issues.cocoondev.org//secure/Administrators.jspa If you want more information on JIRA, or have a bug to report see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[JIRA] Updated: (FOR-454) add content about major changes for this release
The following issue has been updated: Updater: David Crossley (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:28 PM Changes: Comment was deleted. - For a full history of the issue, see: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-454?page=history - View the issue: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-454 Here is an overview of the issue: - Key: FOR-454 Summary: add content about major changes for this release Type: Task Status: Unassigned Priority: Blocker Project: Forrest Components: Documentation and website Fix Fors: 0.7-dev Versions: 0.7-dev Assignee: Reporter: David Crossley Created: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 5:15 PM Updated: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:28 PM Description: We need notes about the major changes for this release: upgrading_07.xml announcement-0.7.txt RELEASE-NOTES-0.7.txt - JIRA INFORMATION: This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://issues.cocoondev.org//secure/Administrators.jspa If you want more information on JIRA, or have a bug to report see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[JIRA] Updated: (FOR-454) add content about major changes for this release
The following issue has been updated: Updater: David Crossley (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:37 PM Comment: There are some notes now added, so reducing issue priority. Changes: priority changed from Blocker to Major - For a full history of the issue, see: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-454?page=history - View the issue: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-454 Here is an overview of the issue: - Key: FOR-454 Summary: add content about major changes for this release Type: Task Status: Unassigned Priority: Major Project: Forrest Components: Documentation and website Fix Fors: 0.7-dev Versions: 0.7-dev Assignee: Reporter: David Crossley Created: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 5:15 PM Updated: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:37 PM Description: We need notes about the major changes for this release: upgrading_07.xml announcement-0.7.txt RELEASE-NOTES-0.7.txt - JIRA INFORMATION: This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://issues.cocoondev.org//secure/Administrators.jspa If you want more information on JIRA, or have a bug to report see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[JIRA] Closed: (FOR-429) Missing navigation links on Forrest site
Message: The following issue has been closed. Resolver: David Crossley Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:39 PM Closing this issue. The reorganisation of docs at FOR-391 is addressing these concerns. - View the issue: http://issues.cocoondev.org//browse/FOR-429 Here is an overview of the issue: - Key: FOR-429 Summary: Missing navigation links on Forrest site Type: Bug Status: Closed Priority: Critical Resolution: FIXED Project: Forrest Components: Documentation and website Fix Fors: 0.7-dev Versions: 0.6 Assignee: Reporter: Ross Gardler Created: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 5:36 AM Updated: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:39 PM Description: Take a look at our published website home page - http://forrest.apache.org In particular not the About menu items on the left: About Index License Download Who we are Flyer Example sites Now look at the about navigation menu on the FAQ page: About Index License Download Who we are FAQs Changes Todo Example sites Note that the items below do not appear on the home page. FAQs Changes Todo - JIRA INFORMATION: This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://issues.cocoondev.org//secure/Administrators.jspa If you want more information on JIRA, or have a bug to report see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
