Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Denis Magda]

Igniters,

Please check this wiki page created based on the inputs from this
conversation:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/How+to+Collaborate

Feel
free to propose or make changes.

-
Denis


On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 3:13 AM Anton Vinogradov  wrote:

> Folks,
>
> ASF Slack is just a private messenger.
> For me, it's a way to have a conversation with any contributor joined
> #ignite channel.
> Of-course, conversation results should be published at Jira/devlist.
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Alexey Zinoviev 
> wrote:
>
> > Cool idea about sending summary/meeting records to dev list for each
> > meaningful communication
> > Support you, Pavel!
> >
> > пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 12:55, Pavel Tupitsyn :
> >
> > > Andrey is right, dev list is our primary form of communication, and for
> > > many good reasons.
> > >
> > > Other forms of communications are fine, but all discussions/decisions
> > > should be reflected on the dev list in one form or another.
> > > - Had a chat in slack and agreed on something? Write a summary to the
> dev
> > > list
> > > - Had a meeting? Recording is great, but please post meeting minutes in
> > > text form to the dev list
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pavel
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:23 PM Denis Magda 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Andrey,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to
> > Slack
> > > > messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to
> > > respond.
> > > > My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite
> dev
> > > > communications (no user support).
> > > >
> > > > I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no
> commitments
> > > to
> > > > respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes
> > Slack
> > > > comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk
> to
> > > > Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related
> > tasks
> > > > discussed initially on the dev.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Denis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat
> > is
> > > > > "bla-bla-bla".
> > > > >
> > > > > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
> > > > > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of
> some
> > > > > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk
> > me
> > > > > about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
> > > > > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will
> have
> > > > > as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
> > > > > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will
> have
> > > > > for discussion of one topic by many members.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
> > > > > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
> > > > > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
> > > > > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
> > > > > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
> > > > > nothing more.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
> > > > > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.
> > > > >
> > > > > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's
> impossible
> > > > > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
> > > > > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
> > > > > about mailing lists, not chats.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван <
> vololo...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > + Meeting minutes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev <
> > zaleslaw@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely
> > announced
> > > > > Hangout
> > > > > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe,
> the
> > > > > recorded
> > > > > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to
> > > share
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the community members.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Denis,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and
> collaboration.
> > > Are
> > > > > > >> there
> > > > > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the
> > > project
> > > > > where
> > > > > > >> they can contribute 

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Anton Vinogradov]

Folks,

ASF Slack is just a private messenger.
For me, it's a way to have a conversation with any contributor joined
#ignite channel.
Of-course, conversation results should be published at Jira/devlist.

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 1:11 PM Alexey Zinoviev 
wrote:

> Cool idea about sending summary/meeting records to dev list for each
> meaningful communication
> Support you, Pavel!
>
> пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 12:55, Pavel Tupitsyn :
>
> > Andrey is right, dev list is our primary form of communication, and for
> > many good reasons.
> >
> > Other forms of communications are fine, but all discussions/decisions
> > should be reflected on the dev list in one form or another.
> > - Had a chat in slack and agreed on something? Write a summary to the dev
> > list
> > - Had a meeting? Recording is great, but please post meeting minutes in
> > text form to the dev list
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:23 PM Denis Magda  wrote:
> >
> > > Andrey,
> > >
> > > I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to
> Slack
> > > messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to
> > respond.
> > > My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev
> > > communications (no user support).
> > >
> > > I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments
> > to
> > > respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes
> Slack
> > > comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to
> > > Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related
> tasks
> > > discussed initially on the dev.
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Denis
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat
> is
> > > > "bla-bla-bla".
> > > >
> > > > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
> > > > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some
> > > > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk
> me
> > > > about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
> > > > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have
> > > > as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
> > > > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have
> > > > for discussion of one topic by many members.
> > > >
> > > > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
> > > > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
> > > > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
> > > > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
> > > > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
> > > > nothing more.
> > > >
> > > > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
> > > > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.
> > > >
> > > > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible
> > > > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.
> > > >
> > > > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
> > > > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
> > > > about mailing lists, not chats.
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > + Meeting minutes
> > > > >
> > > > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev <
> zaleslaw@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely
> announced
> > > > Hangout
> > > > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the
> > > > recorded
> > > > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to
> > share
> > > > with
> > > > > > the community members.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hi Denis,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration.
> > Are
> > > > > >> there
> > > > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the
> > project
> > > > where
> > > > > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be
> intimidating
> > to
> > > > > >> start
> > > > > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning
> a
> > > > mentor
> > > > > >> or
> > > > > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people
> > can
> > > > ping
> > > > > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie
> > > ticket
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base
> maybe
> > > its
> > > > > >> good
> > > > > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >> Amit

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Alexey Zinoviev]

Cool idea about sending summary/meeting records to dev list for each
meaningful communication
Support you, Pavel!

пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 12:55, Pavel Tupitsyn :

> Andrey is right, dev list is our primary form of communication, and for
> many good reasons.
>
> Other forms of communications are fine, but all discussions/decisions
> should be reflected on the dev list in one form or another.
> - Had a chat in slack and agreed on something? Write a summary to the dev
> list
> - Had a meeting? Recording is great, but please post meeting minutes in
> text form to the dev list
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:23 PM Denis Magda  wrote:
>
> > Andrey,
> >
> > I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to Slack
> > messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to
> respond.
> > My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev
> > communications (no user support).
> >
> > I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments
> to
> > respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes Slack
> > comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to
> > Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related tasks
> > discussed initially on the dev.
> >
> >
> > -
> > Denis
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura  wrote:
> >
> > > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is
> > > "bla-bla-bla".
> > >
> > > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
> > > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some
> > > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me
> > > about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
> > > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have
> > > as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
> > > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have
> > > for discussion of one topic by many members.
> > >
> > > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
> > > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
> > > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
> > > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
> > > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
> > > nothing more.
> > >
> > > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
> > > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.
> > >
> > > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible
> > > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.
> > >
> > > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
> > > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
> > > about mailing lists, not chats.
> > >
> > > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > + Meeting minutes
> > > >
> > > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev  >:
> > > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced
> > > Hangout
> > > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to
> > the
> > > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the
> > > recorded
> > > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to
> share
> > > with
> > > > > the community members.
> > > > >
> > > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Denis,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration.
> Are
> > > > >> there
> > > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the
> project
> > > where
> > > > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating
> to
> > > > >> start
> > > > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a
> > > mentor
> > > > >> or
> > > > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people
> can
> > > ping
> > > > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie
> > ticket
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe
> > its
> > > > >> good
> > > > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Amit
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the
> > > conversation
> > > > >> > about Ignite Slack:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite
> > has
> > > met
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open.
> Anton

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Pavel Tupitsyn]

Andrey is right, dev list is our primary form of communication, and for
many good reasons.

Other forms of communications are fine, but all discussions/decisions
should be reflected on the dev list in one form or another.
- Had a chat in slack and agreed on something? Write a summary to the dev
list
- Had a meeting? Recording is great, but please post meeting minutes in
text form to the dev list

Thanks,
Pavel

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:23 PM Denis Magda  wrote:

> Andrey,
>
> I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to Slack
> messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to respond.
> My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev
> communications (no user support).
>
> I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments to
> respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes Slack
> comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to
> Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related tasks
> discussed initially on the dev.
>
>
> -
> Denis
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura  wrote:
>
> > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is
> > "bla-bla-bla".
> >
> > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
> > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some
> > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me
> > about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
> > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have
> > as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
> > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have
> > for discussion of one topic by many members.
> >
> > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
> > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
> > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
> > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
> > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
> > nothing more.
> >
> > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
> > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.
> >
> > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible
> > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.
> >
> > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
> > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
> > about mailing lists, not chats.
> >
> > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > + Meeting minutes
> > >
> > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev :
> > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced
> > Hangout
> > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to
> the
> > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the
> > recorded
> > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share
> > with
> > > > the community members.
> > > >
> > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Denis,
> > > >>
> > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are
> > > >> there
> > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project
> > where
> > > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to
> > > >> start
> > > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a
> > mentor
> > > >> or
> > > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can
> > ping
> > > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie
> ticket
> > > >> from
> > > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe
> its
> > > >> good
> > > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Amit
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda 
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the
> > conversation
> > > >> > about Ignite Slack:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite
> has
> > met
> > > >> to
> > > >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton
> > and
> > > >> > I
> > > >> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards
> to
> > > >> > transparency and openness are as follows:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and
> it's
> > > >> unclear
> > > >> >whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on
> > in
> > > >> > the
> > > >> >background with a task/bug/improvement. In many 

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Denis Magda]

Andrey,

I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to Slack
messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to respond.
My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev
communications (no user support).

I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments to
respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes Slack
comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to
Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related tasks
discussed initially on the dev.


-
Denis


On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura  wrote:

> Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is
> "bla-bla-bla".
>
> IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
> Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some
> phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me
> about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
> chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have
> as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
> tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have
> for discussion of one topic by many members.
>
> Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
> asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
> community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
> are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
> follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
> nothing more.
>
> Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
> aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.
>
> I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible
> for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.
>
> I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
> openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
> about mailing lists, not chats.
>
> [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван 
> wrote:
> >
> > + Meeting minutes
> >
> > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev :
> > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced
> Hangout
> > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to the
> > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the
> recorded
> > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share
> with
> > > the community members.
> > >
> > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> > >
> > >> Hi Denis,
> > >>
> > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are
> > >> there
> > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project
> where
> > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to
> > >> start
> > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a
> mentor
> > >> or
> > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can
> ping
> > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket
> > >> from
> > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its
> > >> good
> > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Amit
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the
> conversation
> > >> > about Ignite Slack:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
> > >> >
> > >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has
> met
> > >> to
> > >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton
> and
> > >> > I
> > >> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
> > >> > transparency and openness are as follows:
> > >> >
> > >> >- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's
> > >> unclear
> > >> >whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on
> in
> > >> > the
> > >> >background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to
> > >> > fall
> > >> > back
> > >> >to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or
> > >> > face-to-face
> > >> >meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community.
> Emails
> > >> (dev
> > >> >list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the
> > >> stages.
> > >> >- Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it
> takes
> > >> many
> > >> >rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review.
> In
> > >> many
> > >> >cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with
> regular
> > >> > tasks
> > >> >imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some
> public
> > >> >

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Andrey Gura]

Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is
"bla-bla-bla".

IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite
Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some
phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me
about threads in Slack, they are useless).  So  transparency isn't
chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have
as result something like salad "Asynchronous":
tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have
for discussion of one topic by many members.

Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It
asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to
community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list
are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will
follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and
nothing more.

Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels
aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess.

I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible
for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above.

I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But
openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all
about mailing lists, not chats.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван  wrote:
>
> + Meeting minutes
>
> 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev :
> > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced Hangout
> > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to the
> > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the recorded
> > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share with
> > the community members.
> >
> > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
> >
> >> Hi Denis,
> >>
> >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are
> >> there
> >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project where
> >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to
> >> start
> >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a mentor
> >> or
> >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can ping
> >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket
> >> from
> >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its
> >> good
> >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Amit
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the conversation
> >> > about Ignite Slack:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
> >> >
> >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has met
> >> to
> >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton and
> >> > I
> >> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
> >> > transparency and openness are as follows:
> >> >
> >> >- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's
> >> unclear
> >> >whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on in
> >> > the
> >> >background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to
> >> > fall
> >> > back
> >> >to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or
> >> > face-to-face
> >> >meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. Emails
> >> (dev
> >> >list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the
> >> stages.
> >> >- Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it takes
> >> many
> >> >rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. In
> >> many
> >> >cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with regular
> >> > tasks
> >> >imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some public
> >> >tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will be
> >> > able to
> >> >review certain changes and make them to Ignite.
> >> >
> >> > To address the problems we want to propose the following:
> >> >
> >> >- Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be
> >> > done
> >> >here.
> >> >- Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the
> >> community
> >> >members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite
> >> > PMC
> >> > will
> >> >be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email (dev
> >> > list)
> >> >conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no need to
> >> >complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source project
> >> >together.
> >> >- Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and
> >> > schedule
> >> a
> >> >

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Павлухин Иван]

+ Meeting minutes

2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev :
> I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced Hangout
> meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to the
> dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the recorded
> video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share with
> the community members.
>
> пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :
>
>> Hi Denis,
>>
>> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are
>> there
>> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project where
>> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to
>> start
>> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a mentor
>> or
>> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can ping
>> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket
>> from
>> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its
>> good
>> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Amit
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda  wrote:
>>
>> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the conversation
>> > about Ignite Slack:
>> >
>> >
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
>> >
>> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has met
>> to
>> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton and
>> > I
>> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
>> > transparency and openness are as follows:
>> >
>> >- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's
>> unclear
>> >whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on in
>> > the
>> >background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to
>> > fall
>> > back
>> >to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or
>> > face-to-face
>> >meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. Emails
>> (dev
>> >list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the
>> stages.
>> >- Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it takes
>> many
>> >rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. In
>> many
>> >cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with regular
>> > tasks
>> >imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some public
>> >tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will be
>> > able to
>> >review certain changes and make them to Ignite.
>> >
>> > To address the problems we want to propose the following:
>> >
>> >- Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be
>> > done
>> >here.
>> >- Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the
>> community
>> >members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite
>> > PMC
>> > will
>> >be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email (dev
>> > list)
>> >conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no need to
>> >complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source project
>> >together.
>> >- Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and
>> > schedule
>> a
>> >meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to the
>> dev
>> >list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. Want
>> > to
>> > talk
>> >in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a
>> > conversation
>> >will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open.
>> >- Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes and,
>> > thus,
>> >ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are ready
>> > to
>> >propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to cooperate
>> > between
>> >GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it fully
>> > open
>> > and
>> >adjust for community needs if required.
>> >
>> > Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting to
>> finish
>> > the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with your
>> > questions first.
>> >
>> > -
>> > Denis
>> >
>>
>


-- 
Best regards,
Ivan Pavlukhin

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Alexey Zinoviev]

I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced Hangout
meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to the
dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the recorded
video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share with
the community members.

пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan :

> Hi Denis,
>
> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are there
> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project where
> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to start
> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a mentor or
> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can ping
> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket from
> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its good
> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Amit
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda  wrote:
>
> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the conversation
> > about Ignite Slack:
> >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
> >
> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has met
> to
> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton and I
> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
> > transparency and openness are as follows:
> >
> >- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's
> unclear
> >whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on in the
> >background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to fall
> > back
> >to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or
> > face-to-face
> >meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. Emails
> (dev
> >list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the
> stages.
> >- Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it takes
> many
> >rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. In
> many
> >cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with regular
> > tasks
> >imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some public
> >tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will be
> > able to
> >review certain changes and make them to Ignite.
> >
> > To address the problems we want to propose the following:
> >
> >- Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be done
> >here.
> >- Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the
> community
> >members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite PMC
> > will
> >be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email (dev
> > list)
> >conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no need to
> >complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source project
> >together.
> >- Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and schedule
> a
> >meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to the
> dev
> >list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. Want to
> > talk
> >in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a
> > conversation
> >will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open.
> >- Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes and, thus,
> >ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are ready to
> >propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to cooperate
> > between
> >GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it fully open
> > and
> >adjust for community needs if required.
> >
> > Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting to
> finish
> > the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with your
> > questions first.
> >
> > -
> > Denis
> >
>

Re: Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Amit Chavan]

Hi Denis,

I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are there
any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project where
they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to start
on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a mentor or
an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can ping
on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket from
the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its good
to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc.

Thanks,
Amit

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda  wrote:

> Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the conversation
> about Ignite Slack:
>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html
>
> Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has met to
> discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton and I
> took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
> transparency and openness are as follows:
>
>- A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's unclear
>whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on in the
>background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to fall
> back
>to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or
> face-to-face
>meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. Emails (dev
>list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the stages.
>- Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it takes many
>rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. In many
>cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with regular
> tasks
>imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some public
>tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will be
> able to
>review certain changes and make them to Ignite.
>
> To address the problems we want to propose the following:
>
>- Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be done
>here.
>- Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the community
>members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite PMC
> will
>be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email (dev
> list)
>conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no need to
>complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source project
>together.
>- Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and schedule a
>meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to the dev
>list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. Want to
> talk
>in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a
> conversation
>will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open.
>- Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes and, thus,
>ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are ready to
>propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to cooperate
> between
>GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it fully open
> and
>adjust for community needs if required.
>
> Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting to finish
> the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with your
> questions first.
>
> -
> Denis
>

Making Ignite Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent

[Denis Magda]

Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the conversation
about Ignite Slack:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html

Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has met to
discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton and I
took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to
transparency and openness are as follows:

   - A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's unclear
   whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on in the
   background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to fall back
   to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or face-to-face
   meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. Emails (dev
   list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the stages.
   - Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it takes many
   rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. In many
   cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with regular tasks
   imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some public
   tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will be able to
   review certain changes and make them to Ignite.

To address the problems we want to propose the following:

   - Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be done
   here.
   - Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the community
   members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite PMC will
   be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email (dev list)
   conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no need to
   complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source project
   together.
   - Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and schedule a
   meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to the dev
   list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. Want to talk
   in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a conversation
   will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open.
   - Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes and, thus,
   ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are ready to
   propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to cooperate between
   GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it fully open and
   adjust for community needs if required.

Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting to finish
the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with your
questions first.

-
Denis