Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Matthias J. Sax]

Thanks for updating the KIP. Just re-read it. Overall LGTM.

A few nits:


single-key lookup with timestamp (upper) bound
Not sure if "(upper) bound" is the right phrasing? Personally, I find it 
a little bit confusing, because the term "bound" kinda indicates a 
range, but we still do a point lookup at the specified timestamp. Maybe 
just remove "(upper) bound"? (I understand what you mean, and maybe it's 
technically correct but IMHO it's a little hard to understand.)




In this KIP we propose a new Optional field in VersionedKeyQuery to store the 
asOfTimestamp value


and

Moreover, the method asOf is added to the class in order to create key queries having asOfTimestamp value as well.  


This KIP introduces `VersionedKeyQuery` but does not just add a new 
option to an existing class. Guess, it was just not update correctly 
from a previous version when we added a new option to existing `KeyQuery`.



I agree with Walker that we you can start a VOTE.



-Matthias


On 9/11/23 11:07 AM, Walker Carlson wrote:

Thanks for the KIP Alieh!

I don't have anything to add to the 960 discussion right now as it seems
rather straightforward. I think after you address Bruno's comments we can
bring it to a vote. I'll review the two spawned KIPs separately.

Keep it up,
Walker

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 5:11 AM Bruno Cadonna  wrote:


Hi Alieh,

I am sorry if I might repeat things that have been already said since I
am not sure I got all e-mails of this discussion thread.

The KIP looks good!

I just have two minor comments that I think are easily resolved.

1.
Why is defining latest() not needed? Is it because if I do not use
asOf() I get the latest value?

For example,

final VersionedKeyQuery query =
VersionedKeyQuery.withKey(1);

will return the latest version, right?

If so, that should be explicitly stated in the KIP and in the javadocs.

I assume, you wanted to say exactly that with

"Defining the latest() method is not needed since returning the latest
value has been always the default assumption."

I would propose to write something like:

"If a query is created without calling asOf() the query returns the
latest value of the key"

Adding one example in the example section for this case would also help.


2.
The KIP misses the test plan section.


Best,
Bruno

On 8/25/23 1:02 PM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:

Thank you, Matthias and Victoria.

Regarding the problem of using methods of single-key-single-ts queries

for

KeyQuery (such as asOf) and vice versa (such as skipCache()), after a
discussion, we decided to define a separate class for

single-key-single-ts

queries named VersionedKeyQuery. Subsequently, the
single-key-multi-timestamp queries (KIP-968) and range queries (KIP-969)
will be covered by the MultiVersionedKeyQuery and

MultiVersionedRangeQuery

classes, respectively.
I think the VersionedKeyQuery is type-safe since if an instance of the
VersionedKeyQuery is posed to a normal (non-versioned) state store, we

will

have the defined Kafka Streams UNKNOWN_QUERY_TYPE failure.

P.S.: The example should be correct now.

Cheers,
Alieh

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 9:34 PM Victoria Xia



wrote:


   Hi Alieh,

Thanks for the updates!
Some questions on the new limited-scope KIP:
1. The example in the "Examples" section shows the query type as
`KeyQuery>` and the result type as
`StateQueryResult>`. Should those have
`VersionedRecord` instead of `ValueAndTimestamp`? Also, the request

type is

currently `StateQueryRequest>>`.
Should the `ValueIterator` no longer be present, now that we are only
returning a single record?
2. Related to Matthias's question about what happens if `asOf()` is set
for a KeyQuery to a non-versioned store, what happens if `skipCache()`

is

set for a versioned store? And what will `isSkipCache()` return?

Versioned

stores do not support caching (at least today). I think for consistency

we

have to let `isSkipCache()` still default to false if `isSkipCache()` is
not set. I think that's fine, as long as it's clear to users (e.g., from
docs) that `isSkipCache()` is not relevant for queries to versioned

stores.

And some responses to your comments from earlier:

I changed the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as

well.

The question is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in
VersionedRecord as NOT NULL?
We can discuss more on your other KIPs (KIP-968 and KIP-969) since this
change should only be relevant for those KIPs and not this one, but the
short answer is that today there's no situation in which VersionedRecord
would need to return a null value because if a get(key) or get(key,
asOfTimestamp) call to a versioned store were to find a null record

(i.e.,

tombstone), then a null object is returned, rather than a non-null
VersionedRecord with null value. In other words, versioned stores do not
distinguish between a tombstone having been inserted versus no record

ever

having been inserted.

About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: 

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Walker Carlson]

Thanks for the KIP Alieh!

I don't have anything to add to the 960 discussion right now as it seems
rather straightforward. I think after you address Bruno's comments we can
bring it to a vote. I'll review the two spawned KIPs separately.

Keep it up,
Walker

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 5:11 AM Bruno Cadonna  wrote:

> Hi Alieh,
>
> I am sorry if I might repeat things that have been already said since I
> am not sure I got all e-mails of this discussion thread.
>
> The KIP looks good!
>
> I just have two minor comments that I think are easily resolved.
>
> 1.
> Why is defining latest() not needed? Is it because if I do not use
> asOf() I get the latest value?
>
> For example,
>
> final VersionedKeyQuery query =
> VersionedKeyQuery.withKey(1);
>
> will return the latest version, right?
>
> If so, that should be explicitly stated in the KIP and in the javadocs.
>
> I assume, you wanted to say exactly that with
>
> "Defining the latest() method is not needed since returning the latest
> value has been always the default assumption."
>
> I would propose to write something like:
>
> "If a query is created without calling asOf() the query returns the
> latest value of the key"
>
> Adding one example in the example section for this case would also help.
>
>
> 2.
> The KIP misses the test plan section.
>
>
> Best,
> Bruno
>
> On 8/25/23 1:02 PM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:
> > Thank you, Matthias and Victoria.
> >
> > Regarding the problem of using methods of single-key-single-ts queries
> for
> > KeyQuery (such as asOf) and vice versa (such as skipCache()), after a
> > discussion, we decided to define a separate class for
> single-key-single-ts
> > queries named VersionedKeyQuery. Subsequently, the
> > single-key-multi-timestamp queries (KIP-968) and range queries (KIP-969)
> > will be covered by the MultiVersionedKeyQuery and
> MultiVersionedRangeQuery
> > classes, respectively.
> > I think the VersionedKeyQuery is type-safe since if an instance of the
> > VersionedKeyQuery is posed to a normal (non-versioned) state store, we
> will
> > have the defined Kafka Streams UNKNOWN_QUERY_TYPE failure.
> >
> > P.S.: The example should be correct now.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alieh
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 9:34 PM Victoria Xia
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>   Hi Alieh,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the updates!
> >> Some questions on the new limited-scope KIP:
> >> 1. The example in the "Examples" section shows the query type as
> >> `KeyQuery>` and the result type as
> >> `StateQueryResult>`. Should those have
> >> `VersionedRecord` instead of `ValueAndTimestamp`? Also, the request
> type is
> >> currently `StateQueryRequest>>`.
> >> Should the `ValueIterator` no longer be present, now that we are only
> >> returning a single record?
> >> 2. Related to Matthias's question about what happens if `asOf()` is set
> >> for a KeyQuery to a non-versioned store, what happens if `skipCache()`
> is
> >> set for a versioned store? And what will `isSkipCache()` return?
> Versioned
> >> stores do not support caching (at least today). I think for consistency
> we
> >> have to let `isSkipCache()` still default to false if `isSkipCache()` is
> >> not set. I think that's fine, as long as it's clear to users (e.g., from
> >> docs) that `isSkipCache()` is not relevant for queries to versioned
> stores.
> >> And some responses to your comments from earlier:
> >>> I changed the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as
> well.
> >> The question is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in
> >> VersionedRecord as NOT NULL?
> >> We can discuss more on your other KIPs (KIP-968 and KIP-969) since this
> >> change should only be relevant for those KIPs and not this one, but the
> >> short answer is that today there's no situation in which VersionedRecord
> >> would need to return a null value because if a get(key) or get(key,
> >> asOfTimestamp) call to a versioned store were to find a null record
> (i.e.,
> >> tombstone), then a null object is returned, rather than a non-null
> >> VersionedRecord with null value. In other words, versioned stores do not
> >> distinguish between a tombstone having been inserted versus no record
> ever
> >> having been inserted.
> >>> About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I
> >> actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore
> >> class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them
> for
> >> all the classes that have implemented the interface.
> >> Again a discussion for your other KIPs, but I think you'll want to
> define
> >> the new method(s) in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface directly
> (rather
> >> than only in individual implementations such as RocksDBVersionedStore),
> >> otherwise your new interactive query types will throw NPEs for custom
> store
> >> implementations which do not support the new methods.
> >> Best,VictoriaOn Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 07:25:22 AM EDT, Alieh
> >> Saeedi  wrote:
> >>
> >>   Hey Matthias,
> >>

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Bruno Cadonna]

Hi Alieh,

I am sorry if I might repeat things that have been already said since I 
am not sure I got all e-mails of this discussion thread.


The KIP looks good!

I just have two minor comments that I think are easily resolved.

1.
Why is defining latest() not needed? Is it because if I do not use 
asOf() I get the latest value?


For example,

final VersionedKeyQuery query = 
VersionedKeyQuery.withKey(1);


will return the latest version, right?

If so, that should be explicitly stated in the KIP and in the javadocs.

I assume, you wanted to say exactly that with

"Defining the latest() method is not needed since returning the latest 
value has been always the default assumption."


I would propose to write something like:

"If a query is created without calling asOf() the query returns the 
latest value of the key"


Adding one example in the example section for this case would also help.


2.
The KIP misses the test plan section.


Best,
Bruno

On 8/25/23 1:02 PM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:

Thank you, Matthias and Victoria.

Regarding the problem of using methods of single-key-single-ts queries for
KeyQuery (such as asOf) and vice versa (such as skipCache()), after a
discussion, we decided to define a separate class for single-key-single-ts
queries named VersionedKeyQuery. Subsequently, the
single-key-multi-timestamp queries (KIP-968) and range queries (KIP-969)
will be covered by the MultiVersionedKeyQuery and MultiVersionedRangeQuery
classes, respectively.
I think the VersionedKeyQuery is type-safe since if an instance of the
VersionedKeyQuery is posed to a normal (non-versioned) state store, we will
have the defined Kafka Streams UNKNOWN_QUERY_TYPE failure.

P.S.: The example should be correct now.

Cheers,
Alieh

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 9:34 PM Victoria Xia 
wrote:


  Hi Alieh,

Thanks for the updates!
Some questions on the new limited-scope KIP:
1. The example in the "Examples" section shows the query type as
`KeyQuery>` and the result type as
`StateQueryResult>`. Should those have
`VersionedRecord` instead of `ValueAndTimestamp`? Also, the request type is
currently `StateQueryRequest>>`.
Should the `ValueIterator` no longer be present, now that we are only
returning a single record?
2. Related to Matthias's question about what happens if `asOf()` is set
for a KeyQuery to a non-versioned store, what happens if `skipCache()` is
set for a versioned store? And what will `isSkipCache()` return? Versioned
stores do not support caching (at least today). I think for consistency we
have to let `isSkipCache()` still default to false if `isSkipCache()` is
not set. I think that's fine, as long as it's clear to users (e.g., from
docs) that `isSkipCache()` is not relevant for queries to versioned stores.
And some responses to your comments from earlier:

I changed the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well.

The question is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in
VersionedRecord as NOT NULL?
We can discuss more on your other KIPs (KIP-968 and KIP-969) since this
change should only be relevant for those KIPs and not this one, but the
short answer is that today there's no situation in which VersionedRecord
would need to return a null value because if a get(key) or get(key,
asOfTimestamp) call to a versioned store were to find a null record (i.e.,
tombstone), then a null object is returned, rather than a non-null
VersionedRecord with null value. In other words, versioned stores do not
distinguish between a tombstone having been inserted versus no record ever
having been inserted.

About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I

actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore
class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them for
all the classes that have implemented the interface.
Again a discussion for your other KIPs, but I think you'll want to define
the new method(s) in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface directly (rather
than only in individual implementations such as RocksDBVersionedStore),
otherwise your new interactive query types will throw NPEs for custom store
implementations which do not support the new methods.
Best,VictoriaOn Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 07:25:22 AM EDT, Alieh
Saeedi  wrote:

  Hey Matthias,
thanks for the feedback

I think if one materializes a versioned store, then the query is posed to
the versioned state store. So the type of materialized store determines the
type of store and consequently all the classes for running the query (for
example, MeteredVersionedKeyValueStore instead of MeteredKeyValueStore and
so on). I added the piece of code for defining the versioned state store to
the example part of the KIP-960.

About the generics, using VersionedRecord instead of V worked. Right
now, I am composing the integration tests. Let me complete the code and
confirm it for 100%.

About the KeyQuery class, I thought the KIP must contain just the newly
added stuff. OK, I will paste the

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Thank you, Matthias and Victoria.

Regarding the problem of using methods of single-key-single-ts queries for
KeyQuery (such as asOf) and vice versa (such as skipCache()), after a
discussion, we decided to define a separate class for single-key-single-ts
queries named VersionedKeyQuery. Subsequently, the
single-key-multi-timestamp queries (KIP-968) and range queries (KIP-969)
will be covered by the MultiVersionedKeyQuery and MultiVersionedRangeQuery
classes, respectively.
I think the VersionedKeyQuery is type-safe since if an instance of the
VersionedKeyQuery is posed to a normal (non-versioned) state store, we will
have the defined Kafka Streams UNKNOWN_QUERY_TYPE failure.

P.S.: The example should be correct now.

Cheers,
Alieh

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 9:34 PM Victoria Xia 
wrote:

>  Hi Alieh,
>
> Thanks for the updates!
> Some questions on the new limited-scope KIP:
> 1. The example in the "Examples" section shows the query type as
> `KeyQuery>` and the result type as
> `StateQueryResult>`. Should those have
> `VersionedRecord` instead of `ValueAndTimestamp`? Also, the request type is
> currently `StateQueryRequest>>`.
> Should the `ValueIterator` no longer be present, now that we are only
> returning a single record?
> 2. Related to Matthias's question about what happens if `asOf()` is set
> for a KeyQuery to a non-versioned store, what happens if `skipCache()` is
> set for a versioned store? And what will `isSkipCache()` return? Versioned
> stores do not support caching (at least today). I think for consistency we
> have to let `isSkipCache()` still default to false if `isSkipCache()` is
> not set. I think that's fine, as long as it's clear to users (e.g., from
> docs) that `isSkipCache()` is not relevant for queries to versioned stores.
> And some responses to your comments from earlier:
> > I changed the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well.
> The question is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in
> VersionedRecord as NOT NULL?
> We can discuss more on your other KIPs (KIP-968 and KIP-969) since this
> change should only be relevant for those KIPs and not this one, but the
> short answer is that today there's no situation in which VersionedRecord
> would need to return a null value because if a get(key) or get(key,
> asOfTimestamp) call to a versioned store were to find a null record (i.e.,
> tombstone), then a null object is returned, rather than a non-null
> VersionedRecord with null value. In other words, versioned stores do not
> distinguish between a tombstone having been inserted versus no record ever
> having been inserted.
> > About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I
> actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore
> class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them for
> all the classes that have implemented the interface.
> Again a discussion for your other KIPs, but I think you'll want to define
> the new method(s) in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface directly (rather
> than only in individual implementations such as RocksDBVersionedStore),
> otherwise your new interactive query types will throw NPEs for custom store
> implementations which do not support the new methods.
> Best,VictoriaOn Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 07:25:22 AM EDT, Alieh
> Saeedi  wrote:
>
>  Hey Matthias,
> thanks for the feedback
>
> I think if one materializes a versioned store, then the query is posed to
> the versioned state store. So the type of materialized store determines the
> type of store and consequently all the classes for running the query (for
> example, MeteredVersionedKeyValueStore instead of MeteredKeyValueStore and
> so on). I added the piece of code for defining the versioned state store to
> the example part of the KIP-960.
>
> About the generics, using VersionedRecord instead of V worked. Right
> now, I am composing the integration tests. Let me complete the code and
> confirm it for 100%.
>
> About the KeyQuery class, I thought the KIP must contain just the newly
> added stuff. OK, I will paste the whole class in KIP-960.
>
> Thanks,
> Alieh
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 3:54 AM Matthias J. Sax  wrote:
>
> > Thanks for updating the KIP and splitting into multiple ones. I am just
> > going to reply for the single-key-single-timestamp case below.
> >
> > It seems the `KeyQuery.java` code snipped is "incomplete" -- the class
> > definition is missing.
> >
> > At the same time, the example uses `VersionedKeyQuery` so I am not sure
> > right now if you propose to re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class or
> > introduce a new `VersionedKeyQuery` class?
> >
> > While it was suggested that we re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class, I
> > am wondering what would happen if one uses the new `asOf` method, and
> > passes the query into a non-versioned store?
> >
> > In the end, a non-versioned store does not know that there is an as-of
> > timestamp set and thus might just do a plain look

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Victoria Xia]

 Hi Alieh,

Thanks for the updates! 
Some questions on the new limited-scope KIP:
1. The example in the "Examples" section shows the query type as 
`KeyQuery>` and the result type as 
`StateQueryResult>`. Should those have 
`VersionedRecord` instead of `ValueAndTimestamp`? Also, the request type is 
currently `StateQueryRequest>>`. Should 
the `ValueIterator` no longer be present, now that we are only returning a 
single record?
2. Related to Matthias's question about what happens if `asOf()` is set for a 
KeyQuery to a non-versioned store, what happens if `skipCache()` is set for a 
versioned store? And what will `isSkipCache()` return? Versioned stores do not 
support caching (at least today). I think for consistency we have to let 
`isSkipCache()` still default to false if `isSkipCache()` is not set. I think 
that's fine, as long as it's clear to users (e.g., from docs) that 
`isSkipCache()` is not relevant for queries to versioned stores.
And some responses to your comments from earlier:
> I changed the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well. The 
> question is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in 
> VersionedRecord as NOT NULL?
We can discuss more on your other KIPs (KIP-968 and KIP-969) since this change 
should only be relevant for those KIPs and not this one, but the short answer 
is that today there's no situation in which VersionedRecord would need to 
return a null value because if a get(key) or get(key, asOfTimestamp) call to a 
versioned store were to find a null record (i.e., tombstone), then a null 
object is returned, rather than a non-null VersionedRecord with null value. In 
other words, versioned stores do not distinguish between a tombstone having 
been inserted versus no record ever having been inserted.
> About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I 
> actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore 
> class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them for 
> all the classes that have implemented the interface.
Again a discussion for your other KIPs, but I think you'll want to define the 
new method(s) in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface directly (rather than 
only in individual implementations such as RocksDBVersionedStore), otherwise 
your new interactive query types will throw NPEs for custom store 
implementations which do not support the new methods.
Best,VictoriaOn Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 07:25:22 AM EDT, Alieh Saeedi 
 wrote:  
 
 Hey Matthias,
thanks for the feedback

I think if one materializes a versioned store, then the query is posed to
the versioned state store. So the type of materialized store determines the
type of store and consequently all the classes for running the query (for
example, MeteredVersionedKeyValueStore instead of MeteredKeyValueStore and
so on). I added the piece of code for defining the versioned state store to
the example part of the KIP-960.

About the generics, using VersionedRecord instead of V worked. Right
now, I am composing the integration tests. Let me complete the code and
confirm it for 100%.

About the KeyQuery class, I thought the KIP must contain just the newly
added stuff. OK, I will paste the whole class in KIP-960.

Thanks,
Alieh




On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 3:54 AM Matthias J. Sax  wrote:

> Thanks for updating the KIP and splitting into multiple ones. I am just
> going to reply for the single-key-single-timestamp case below.
>
> It seems the `KeyQuery.java` code snipped is "incomplete" -- the class
> definition is missing.
>
> At the same time, the example uses `VersionedKeyQuery` so I am not sure
> right now if you propose to re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class or
> introduce a new `VersionedKeyQuery` class?
>
> While it was suggested that we re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class, I
> am wondering what would happen if one uses the new `asOf` method, and
> passes the query into a non-versioned store?
>
> In the end, a non-versioned store does not know that there is an as-of
> timestamp set and thus might just do a plain lookup (it also only has a
> single value per key) and return whatever value it has stored?
>
> I am wondering if this would be semantically questionable and/or
> confusing for users (especially for timestamped stores)? -- Because the
> non-versioned store does not know anything about the timestamp, it can
> also not even check if it's set and raise an error.
>
>
> Did you try to prototype any of both approaches? Asking because I am
> wondering about generics and return types? Existing `KeyQuery` is defined
> as
>
> `KeyQuery extends Query` so `V` is the result type.
>
> However for the versioned-store we want the result type to be
> `VersionedRecord` and thus we would need to set `V =
> VersionedRecord` -- would this work or would the compiler tip over it
> (or would it work but still be confusing/complex for users to specify
> the right types)?
>
> For `VersionedKeyQuery` we could do:
>
> `Versione

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Hey Matthias,
thanks for the feedback

I think if one materializes a versioned store, then the query is posed to
the versioned state store. So the type of materialized store determines the
type of store and consequently all the classes for running the query (for
example, MeteredVersionedKeyValueStore instead of MeteredKeyValueStore and
so on). I added the piece of code for defining the versioned state store to
the example part of the KIP-960.

About the generics, using VersionedRecord instead of V worked. Right
now, I am composing the integration tests. Let me complete the code and
confirm it for 100%.

About the KeyQuery class, I thought the KIP must contain just the newly
added stuff. OK, I will paste the whole class in KIP-960.

Thanks,
Alieh




On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 3:54 AM Matthias J. Sax  wrote:

> Thanks for updating the KIP and splitting into multiple ones. I am just
> going to reply for the single-key-single-timestamp case below.
>
> It seems the `KeyQuery.java` code snipped is "incomplete" -- the class
> definition is missing.
>
> At the same time, the example uses `VersionedKeyQuery` so I am not sure
> right now if you propose to re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class or
> introduce a new `VersionedKeyQuery` class?
>
> While it was suggested that we re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class, I
> am wondering what would happen if one uses the new `asOf` method, and
> passes the query into a non-versioned store?
>
> In the end, a non-versioned store does not know that there is an as-of
> timestamp set and thus might just do a plain lookup (it also only has a
> single value per key) and return whatever value it has stored?
>
> I am wondering if this would be semantically questionable and/or
> confusing for users (especially for timestamped stores)? -- Because the
> non-versioned store does not know anything about the timestamp, it can
> also not even check if it's set and raise an error.
>
>
> Did you try to prototype any of both approaches? Asking because I am
> wondering about generics and return types? Existing `KeyQuery` is defined
> as
>
> `KeyQuery extends Query` so `V` is the result type.
>
> However for the versioned-store we want the result type to be
> `VersionedRecord` and thus we would need to set `V =
> VersionedRecord` -- would this work or would the compiler tip over it
> (or would it work but still be confusing/complex for users to specify
> the right types)?
>
> For `VersionedKeyQuery` we could do:
>
> `VersionedKeyQuery extends Query>`
>
> what seems cleaner?
>
> Without writing code I always have a hard time to reason about generics,
> so maybe trying out both approaches might shed some light?
>
>
>
>
> -Matthias
>
>
> On 8/15/23 9:03 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > thanks to all for the great points you mentioned.
> >
> > Addressed reviews are listed as follows:
> > 1. The methods are defined as composable, as Lucas suggested. Now we have
> > even more types of single-key_multi-timestamp queries. As Matthias
> > suggested in his first review, now with composable methods, queries with
> a
> > lower time bound are also possible. The meaningless combinations are
> > prevented by throwing exceptions.
> > 2. I corrected and replaced asOf everywhere instead of until. I hope the
> > javadocs and the explanations in the KIPs are clear enough about the time
> > range. Matthias, Lucas, and Victoria asked about the exact time
> boundaries.
> > I assumed that if the time range is specified as [t1, t2], all the
> records
> > that have been inserted within this time range must be returned by the
> > query. But I think the point that all of you referred to and that
> Victoria
> > clarified very well is valid. Maybe the query must return "all the
> > records that are valid within the time range". Therefore, records that
> have
> > been inserted before t1 are also retuned. Now, this makes more sense to
> me
> > as a user. By the way, it seems more like a product question.
> > 3. About the order of retuned records, I added some boolean fields to the
> > classes to specify them. I still do not have any clue how hard the
> > implementation of this will be. The question is, is the order considered
> > for normal range queries as well?
> > 4. As Victoria pointed out the issue about listing tombstones, I changed
> > the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well. The
> question
> > is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in
> VersionedRecord
> > as NOT NULL? I am worried about breaking other parts of the code.
> > 5. About the motivation for defining the VersionedKeyQuery and
> > VersionedRangeQuery classes: I think my initial intention was to
> > distinguish between queries that return a single record and queries that
> > return a set of records. On the other hand, I put both
> > single-key_single-timestamp queries and single-key_multi-timestamp
> queries
> > in the same class, VersionedKeyQuery. Matthias complained about it as
> well.
> > Therefore, in my new chang

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Matthias J. Sax]

Thanks for updating the KIP and splitting into multiple ones. I am just 
going to reply for the single-key-single-timestamp case below.


It seems the `KeyQuery.java` code snipped is "incomplete" -- the class 
definition is missing.


At the same time, the example uses `VersionedKeyQuery` so I am not sure 
right now if you propose to re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class or 
introduce a new `VersionedKeyQuery` class?


While it was suggested that we re-use the existing `KeyQuery` class, I 
am wondering what would happen if one uses the new `asOf` method, and 
passes the query into a non-versioned store?


In the end, a non-versioned store does not know that there is an as-of 
timestamp set and thus might just do a plain lookup (it also only has a 
single value per key) and return whatever value it has stored?


I am wondering if this would be semantically questionable and/or 
confusing for users (especially for timestamped stores)? -- Because the 
non-versioned store does not know anything about the timestamp, it can 
also not even check if it's set and raise an error.



Did you try to prototype any of both approaches? Asking because I am 
wondering about generics and return types? Existing `KeyQuery` is defined as


`KeyQuery extends Query` so `V` is the result type.

However for the versioned-store we want the result type to be 
`VersionedRecord` and thus we would need to set `V = 
VersionedRecord` -- would this work or would the compiler tip over it 
(or would it work but still be confusing/complex for users to specify 
the right types)?


For `VersionedKeyQuery` we could do:

`VersionedKeyQuery extends Query>`

what seems cleaner?

Without writing code I always have a hard time to reason about generics, 
so maybe trying out both approaches might shed some light?





-Matthias


On 8/15/23 9:03 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:

Hi all,
thanks to all for the great points you mentioned.

Addressed reviews are listed as follows:
1. The methods are defined as composable, as Lucas suggested. Now we have
even more types of single-key_multi-timestamp queries. As Matthias
suggested in his first review, now with composable methods, queries with a
lower time bound are also possible. The meaningless combinations are
prevented by throwing exceptions.
2. I corrected and replaced asOf everywhere instead of until. I hope the
javadocs and the explanations in the KIPs are clear enough about the time
range. Matthias, Lucas, and Victoria asked about the exact time boundaries.
I assumed that if the time range is specified as [t1, t2], all the records
that have been inserted within this time range must be returned by the
query. But I think the point that all of you referred to and that Victoria
clarified very well is valid. Maybe the query must return "all the
records that are valid within the time range". Therefore, records that have
been inserted before t1 are also retuned. Now, this makes more sense to me
as a user. By the way, it seems more like a product question.
3. About the order of retuned records, I added some boolean fields to the
classes to specify them. I still do not have any clue how hard the
implementation of this will be. The question is, is the order considered
for normal range queries as well?
4. As Victoria pointed out the issue about listing tombstones, I changed
the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well. The question
is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in VersionedRecord
as NOT NULL? I am worried about breaking other parts of the code.
5. About the motivation for defining the VersionedKeyQuery and
VersionedRangeQuery classes: I think my initial intention was to
distinguish between queries that return a single record and queries that
return a set of records. On the other hand, I put both
single-key_single-timestamp queries and single-key_multi-timestamp queries
in the same class, VersionedKeyQuery. Matthias complained about it as well.
Therefore, in my new changes, I put single-key_single-timestamp queries in
the KeyQuery class and single-key_multi-timestamp queries in the
VersionedKeyQuery class. I still have kept the VersionedRangeQuery class.
If there are good arguments for kicking both VersionedKeyQuery and
VersionedRangeQuery classes out, I can change the KIPs.
6. About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I
actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore
class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them for
all the classes that have implemented the interface.
7. I replaced Long with Instant type for timestamp.

As Matthias (explicitly) and Victoria (implicitly) suggested, I broke
KIP-960 into three different KIPs.
KIP-960: Support single-key_single-timestamp Interactive Queries (IQv2) for
Versioned State Stores

KIP-968: Support single-key_multi-timestamp Interactive Que

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Hi all,
thanks to all for the great points you mentioned.

Addressed reviews are listed as follows:
1. The methods are defined as composable, as Lucas suggested. Now we have
even more types of single-key_multi-timestamp queries. As Matthias
suggested in his first review, now with composable methods, queries with a
lower time bound are also possible. The meaningless combinations are
prevented by throwing exceptions.
2. I corrected and replaced asOf everywhere instead of until. I hope the
javadocs and the explanations in the KIPs are clear enough about the time
range. Matthias, Lucas, and Victoria asked about the exact time boundaries.
I assumed that if the time range is specified as [t1, t2], all the records
that have been inserted within this time range must be returned by the
query. But I think the point that all of you referred to and that Victoria
clarified very well is valid. Maybe the query must return "all the
records that are valid within the time range". Therefore, records that have
been inserted before t1 are also retuned. Now, this makes more sense to me
as a user. By the way, it seems more like a product question.
3. About the order of retuned records, I added some boolean fields to the
classes to specify them. I still do not have any clue how hard the
implementation of this will be. The question is, is the order considered
for normal range queries as well?
4. As Victoria pointed out the issue about listing tombstones, I changed
the VersionedRecord such that it can have NULL values as well. The question
is, what was the initial intention of setting the value in VersionedRecord
as NOT NULL? I am worried about breaking other parts of the code.
5. About the motivation for defining the VersionedKeyQuery and
VersionedRangeQuery classes: I think my initial intention was to
distinguish between queries that return a single record and queries that
return a set of records. On the other hand, I put both
single-key_single-timestamp queries and single-key_multi-timestamp queries
in the same class, VersionedKeyQuery. Matthias complained about it as well.
Therefore, in my new changes, I put single-key_single-timestamp queries in
the KeyQuery class and single-key_multi-timestamp queries in the
VersionedKeyQuery class. I still have kept the VersionedRangeQuery class.
If there are good arguments for kicking both VersionedKeyQuery and
VersionedRangeQuery classes out, I can change the KIPs.
6. About defining new methods in the VersionedKeyValueStore interface: I
actually have defined the required methods in the RocksDBVersionedStore
class. Since defining them for the interface requires implementing them for
all the classes that have implemented the interface.
7. I replaced Long with Instant type for timestamp.

As Matthias (explicitly) and Victoria (implicitly) suggested, I broke
KIP-960 into three different KIPs.
KIP-960: Support single-key_single-timestamp Interactive Queries (IQv2) for
Versioned State Stores

KIP-968: Support single-key_multi-timestamp Interactive Queries (IQv2) for
Versioned State Stores

KIP-969: Support range Interactive Queries (IQv2) for Versioned State
Stores


Cheers,
Alieh

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 2:38 AM Matthias J. Sax  wrote:

> Seems there was a lot of additional feedback. Looking forward to an
> updated version of the KIP.
>
> I also agree to make the queries more composable. I was considering to
> raise this originally, but hold off because `RangeQuery` is also not
> designed very composable. But for versioned store, we have many more
> combinations, so making it composable does make sense to me.
>
> About iterator order: I would also propose to be pragmatic, and only add
> what is simple to implement for now. We can always extend it later. We
> just need to clearly document the order (or say: order is not defined --
> also a valid option). Of course, if we limit what we add now, we should
> keep in mind how to extend the API in the future without the need to
> deprecate a lot of stuff (ideally, we would not need to deprecate
> anything but only extend what we have).
>
> Btw: I am also happy to de-scope this KIP to only implement the two
> queries Victoria mentioned being easy to implement, and do follow up
> KIPs for range queries. There is no need to do everything with a single
> KIP.
>
> About the original v-store KIP and `long` vs `Instance` -- I don't think
> we forget it. If the store is use inside a `Processor` using `long` is
> preferred because performance is important and we are on the hot code
> path. For IQ on the other hand, it's not the hot code path, and
> s

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Matthias J. Sax]

Seems there was a lot of additional feedback. Looking forward to an 
updated version of the KIP.


I also agree to make the queries more composable. I was considering to 
raise this originally, but hold off because `RangeQuery` is also not 
designed very composable. But for versioned store, we have many more 
combinations, so making it composable does make sense to me.


About iterator order: I would also propose to be pragmatic, and only add 
what is simple to implement for now. We can always extend it later. We 
just need to clearly document the order (or say: order is not defined -- 
also a valid option). Of course, if we limit what we add now, we should 
keep in mind how to extend the API in the future without the need to 
deprecate a lot of stuff (ideally, we would not need to deprecate 
anything but only extend what we have).


Btw: I am also happy to de-scope this KIP to only implement the two 
queries Victoria mentioned being easy to implement, and do follow up 
KIPs for range queries. There is no need to do everything with a single KIP.


About the original v-store KIP and `long` vs `Instance` -- I don't think 
we forget it. If the store is use inside a `Processor` using `long` is 
preferred because performance is important and we are on the hot code 
path. For IQ on the other hand, it's not the hot code path, and 
semantics exposed to the user are more important. -- At least, this is 
how we did it in the past.



One more thoughts.

The new `VersionedKeyQuery` seems to have two different query types 
merged into a single class. Queries which return a single result, and 
queries that return multiple results. This does not seem ideal. For 
`withKeyLatestValue` and `withKeyWithTimestampBound` (should we rename 
this to `withKeyAsOfTimestamp`?) I would expect to get a single 
`VersionedRecord` back, not an interator. Hence, we might need to 
split `VersionedKeyQuery` into two query types?



-Matthias




On 8/9/23 6:46 AM, Victoria Xia wrote:

Hey Alieh,

Thanks for the KIP!

It looks like the KIP proposes three different types of interactive queries for 
versioned stores, though they are grouped together into two classes: 
VersionedKeyQuery adds supports for single-key, single-timestamp lookups, and 
also for single-key, multi-timestamp lookups, while VersionedRangeQuery 
additionally adds support for key-range queries.

The first type of query (single-key, single-timestamp lookups) are already 
supported by versioned stores (per the VersionedKeyValueStore interface) today, 
so exposing these via interactive queries require low additional implementation 
effort, and are a quick win to users. The other two types of queries will 
require more effort to add, and also come with more design decisions. I've 
sorted my thoughts accordingly.

Regarding single-key, multi-timestamp lookups:

1. If we add these, we should add a new method to the VersionedKeyValueStore 
interface to support this type of lookup. Otherwise, there is no easy/efficient 
way to compose methods from the existing interface in order to implement this 
type of lookup, and therefore the new interactive query type cannot be used on 
generic VersionedKeyValueStores.

2. I agree with Matthias's and Lucas's comments about being very explicit about what the timestamp range means. For consistency 
with single-key, single-timestamp lookups, I think the "upper timestamp bound" should really be an "as of 
timestamp bound" instead, so that it is inclusive. For the "lower timestamp bound"/start timestamp, we have a 
choice regarding whether to interpret it as the user saying "I want valid records for all timestamps in the range" in 
which case the query should return a record with timestamp earlier than the start timestamp, or to interpret it as the user 
saying "I want all records with timestamps in the range" in which case the query should not return any records with 
timestamp earlier than the start timestamp. My current preference is for the former, but it'd be good to hear other opinions.

3. The existing VersionedRecord interface contains only a value and validFrom 
timestamp, and does not allow null values. This presents a problem for introducing 
single-key, multi-timestamp lookups because if there is a tombstone contained within 
the timestamp range of the query, then there is no way to represent this as part of a 
ValueIterator return type. You'll either have to allow null 
values or add a validTo timestamp to the returned records.

4. Also +1 to Matthias's question about standardizing the order in which 
records are returned. Will they always be returned in forwards-timestamp order? 
Reverse-timestamp order? Will users get a choice? It'd be good to make this 
explicit in the KIP.

Regarding key-range queries (either single-timestamp or multi-timestamp):

5. Same comment about adding new methods for this type of lookup to the 
VersionedKeyValueStore interface.

6. Again +1 to Matthias's question about the order in which records are 
ret

RE: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Victoria Xia]

Hey Alieh,

Thanks for the KIP! 

It looks like the KIP proposes three different types of interactive queries for 
versioned stores, though they are grouped together into two classes: 
VersionedKeyQuery adds supports for single-key, single-timestamp lookups, and 
also for single-key, multi-timestamp lookups, while VersionedRangeQuery 
additionally adds support for key-range queries.

The first type of query (single-key, single-timestamp lookups) are already 
supported by versioned stores (per the VersionedKeyValueStore interface) today, 
so exposing these via interactive queries require low additional implementation 
effort, and are a quick win to users. The other two types of queries will 
require more effort to add, and also come with more design decisions. I've 
sorted my thoughts accordingly.

Regarding single-key, multi-timestamp lookups:

1. If we add these, we should add a new method to the VersionedKeyValueStore 
interface to support this type of lookup. Otherwise, there is no easy/efficient 
way to compose methods from the existing interface in order to implement this 
type of lookup, and therefore the new interactive query type cannot be used on 
generic VersionedKeyValueStores.

2. I agree with Matthias's and Lucas's comments about being very explicit about 
what the timestamp range means. For consistency with single-key, 
single-timestamp lookups, I think the "upper timestamp bound" should really be 
an "as of timestamp bound" instead, so that it is inclusive. For the "lower 
timestamp bound"/start timestamp, we have a choice regarding whether to 
interpret it as the user saying "I want valid records for all timestamps in the 
range" in which case the query should return a record with timestamp earlier 
than the start timestamp, or to interpret it as the user saying "I want all 
records with timestamps in the range" in which case the query should not return 
any records with timestamp earlier than the start timestamp. My current 
preference is for the former, but it'd be good to hear other opinions.

3. The existing VersionedRecord interface contains only a value and validFrom 
timestamp, and does not allow null values. This presents a problem for 
introducing single-key, multi-timestamp lookups because if there is a tombstone 
contained within the timestamp range of the query, then there is no way to 
represent this as part of a ValueIterator return type. You'll 
either have to allow null values or add a validTo timestamp to the returned 
records.

4. Also +1 to Matthias's question about standardizing the order in which 
records are returned. Will they always be returned in forwards-timestamp order? 
Reverse-timestamp order? Will users get a choice? It'd be good to make this 
explicit in the KIP.

Regarding key-range queries (either single-timestamp or multi-timestamp):

5. Same comment about adding new methods for this type of lookup to the 
VersionedKeyValueStore interface.

6. Again +1 to Matthias's question about the order in which records are 
returned, for multi-key, multi-timestamp queries. Organizing first by key and 
then by timestamp makes the most sense to me, based on the layout of the 
existing store implementation. (Trying to sort by timestamp would require 
reading potentially all keys into memory first, which is not feasible.)

I think the complexity of introducing single-key, multi-timestamp lookups and 
especially multi-key, multi-timestamp lookups is significantly higher than for 
single-key, single-timestamp lookups, so it'd be good to think about/guage what 
the use cases for these types of queries are before committing to the 
implementation, and also to stage the implementation to get single-key, 
single-timestamp lookups as a quick win first without blocking on the others. 
(Guessing you were already planning to do that, though :))

Also a separate question: 

7. What's the motivation for introducing new VersionedKeyQuery and 
VersionedRangeQuery types rather than re-using the existing KeyQuery and 
RangeQuery types, to add optional asOfTimestamp bounds? I can see pros and cons 
of each, just curious to hear your thoughts.

If you do choose to keep VersionedKeyQuery and VersionedRangeQuery separate 
from KeyQuery and RangeQuery, then you can remove the KeyQuery and RangeQuery 
placeholders in the versioned store implementation as part of implementing your 
KIP: 
https://github.com/apache/kafka/blob/f23394336a7741bf4eb23fcde951af0a23a69bd0/streams/src/main/java/org/apache/kafka/streams/state/internals/MeteredVersionedKeyValueStore.java#L142-L158

Best,
Victoria

On 2023/08/09 10:16:44 Bruno Cadonna wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I will use the initials of the authors to distinguish the points.
> 
> LB 2.
> I like the idea of composable construction of queries. It would make the 
> API more readable. I think this is better than the VersionsQualifier, I 
> proposed in BC 3..
> 
> LB 4. and LB 5.
> Being explicit on the time bounds and key ranges is really important.
> 
> LB 6.
> I thin

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Bruno Cadonna]

Hi,

I will use the initials of the authors to distinguish the points.

LB 2.
I like the idea of composable construction of queries. It would make the 
API more readable. I think this is better than the VersionsQualifier, I 
proposed in BC 3..


LB 4. and LB 5.
Being explicit on the time bounds and key ranges is really important.

LB 6.
I think peekNextValue() comes from peekNextKey() in KeyValueIterator. I 
agree with Lucas that in ValueIterator peek() is clear enough.


BC 5.
I missed to answer your question. I am sorry! I do not think we need 
system tests. However, you should add a test plan listing the test you 
plan to write. I guess this list will comprise unit and integration tests.


BC 6. (new)
Could you please use asOf or asOfTime or asOfTimestamp instead of 
untilTimestamp. I do not want to query a key until a timestamp, but I 
want to query a key at a specific point in time. Maybe atTime might also 
work, but I think asOf is more popular.


BC 7. (new)
You should change long to Instant for timestamps. Just because we missed 
to use Instant in other places, we should not keep long.



Best,
Bruno


On 8/8/23 10:26 PM, Lucas Brutschy wrote:

Hi Alieh,

thanks a lot for the KIP. IQ with time semantics is going to be
another great improvement towards having crystal clear streaming
semantics!

1. I agree with Bruno and Matthias, to remove the 'bound' term for the
timestamps. It's confusing that we have bounds for both timestamps and
keys. In particular, `withNoBoundWithTimestampBound` seems to
contradict itself.

2. I would personally prefer having composable construction of the
query, instead of defining a separate method for each combination. So
for example:
- `keyRangeLatestValue(l,u)` ->  `withBounds(l, u).latest()`
- `withNoBoundsWithTimestampRange(t1,t2)` ->
`withNoBounds().fromTime(t1).untilTime(t2)`
- etc.pp.
This would have the advantage, that the interface would be very
similar to `RangeQuery` and we'd need a lot fewer methods, so it will
make the API reference a much quicker read. We already use this style
to define `skipCache` in `KeyQuery`. I guess that diverges quite a bit
from the current proposal, but I'll leave it here anyways for you to
consider it (even if you decide to stick with the current model).

4. Please make sure to specify in every range-based method whether the
bounds are inclusive or exclusive. I see it being mentioned for some
methods, but for others, this is omitted. As I understand, 'until' is
usually used to mean exclusive, and 'from' is usually used to mean
inclusive, but it's better to specify this in the javadoc.

5. Similarly, as Matthias says, specify what happens if the "validity
range" of a value overlaps with the query range. So, to clarify his
remark, what happens if the value v1 is inserted at time 1 and value
v2 is inserted at time 3, and I query for the range `[2,4]` - will the
result include v1 or not? It's the valid value at time 2. For
inspiration, in `WindowRangeQuery`, this important semantic detail is
even clear from the method name `withWindowStartRange`.

6. For iterators, it is convention to call the method `peek` and this
convention followed by e.g. `AbstractIterator` in Kafka, but also
Guava, Apache Commons etc. So I would also call it `peek`, not
`peekNextValue` here. It's clear what we are peeking at.

Cheers,
Lucas

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:07 PM Alieh Saeedi
 wrote:


Thanks, Bruno, for the feedback.


- I agree with both points 2 and 3. About 3: Having "VersionsQualifier"
reduces the number of methods and makes everything less confusing. At the
end, that will be easier to use for the developers.
- About point 4: I renamed all the properties and parameters from
"asOfTimestamp" to "fromTimestamp". That was my misunderstanding. So Now we
have these two timestamp bounds: "fromTimestamp" and "untilTimestamp".
- About point 5: Do we need system tests here? I assumed just
integration tests were enough.
- Regarding long vs timestamp instance: I think yes, that 's why I used
Long as timestamp.

Bests,
Alieh






On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:28 PM Bruno Cadonna  wrote:


Hi Alieh,

Thanks for the KIP!


Here my feedback.

1.
You can remove the private fields and constructors from the KIP. Those
are implementation details.


2.
Some proposals for renamings

in VersionedKeyQuery

withKeyWithTimestampBound()
-> withKeyAndAsOf()

withKeyWithTimestampRange()
-> withKeyAndTimeRange()

in VersionedRangeQuery

KeyRangeWithTimestampBound()
-> withKeyRangeAndAsOf()

withLowerBoundWithTimestampBound()
-> withLowerBoundAndAsOf()

withUpperBoundWithTimestampBound()
-> withUpperBoundAndAsOf()

withNoBoundWithTimestampBound()
-> withNoBoundsAndAsOf

keyRangeWithTimestampRange()
-> withKeyRangeAndTimeRange()

withLowerBoundWithTimestampRange()
-> withLowerBoundAndTimeRange()

withUpperBoundWithTimestampRange()
-> withUpperBounfAndTimeRange()

withNoBoundWithTimestampRange()
-> withNoB

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Lucas Brutschy]

Hi Alieh,

thanks a lot for the KIP. IQ with time semantics is going to be
another great improvement towards having crystal clear streaming
semantics!

1. I agree with Bruno and Matthias, to remove the 'bound' term for the
timestamps. It's confusing that we have bounds for both timestamps and
keys. In particular, `withNoBoundWithTimestampBound` seems to
contradict itself.

2. I would personally prefer having composable construction of the
query, instead of defining a separate method for each combination. So
for example:
- `keyRangeLatestValue(l,u)` ->  `withBounds(l, u).latest()`
- `withNoBoundsWithTimestampRange(t1,t2)` ->
`withNoBounds().fromTime(t1).untilTime(t2)`
- etc.pp.
This would have the advantage, that the interface would be very
similar to `RangeQuery` and we'd need a lot fewer methods, so it will
make the API reference a much quicker read. We already use this style
to define `skipCache` in `KeyQuery`. I guess that diverges quite a bit
from the current proposal, but I'll leave it here anyways for you to
consider it (even if you decide to stick with the current model).

4. Please make sure to specify in every range-based method whether the
bounds are inclusive or exclusive. I see it being mentioned for some
methods, but for others, this is omitted. As I understand, 'until' is
usually used to mean exclusive, and 'from' is usually used to mean
inclusive, but it's better to specify this in the javadoc.

5. Similarly, as Matthias says, specify what happens if the "validity
range" of a value overlaps with the query range. So, to clarify his
remark, what happens if the value v1 is inserted at time 1 and value
v2 is inserted at time 3, and I query for the range `[2,4]` - will the
result include v1 or not? It's the valid value at time 2. For
inspiration, in `WindowRangeQuery`, this important semantic detail is
even clear from the method name `withWindowStartRange`.

6. For iterators, it is convention to call the method `peek` and this
convention followed by e.g. `AbstractIterator` in Kafka, but also
Guava, Apache Commons etc. So I would also call it `peek`, not
`peekNextValue` here. It's clear what we are peeking at.

Cheers,
Lucas

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:07 PM Alieh Saeedi
 wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bruno, for the feedback.
>
>
>- I agree with both points 2 and 3. About 3: Having "VersionsQualifier"
>reduces the number of methods and makes everything less confusing. At the
>end, that will be easier to use for the developers.
>- About point 4: I renamed all the properties and parameters from
>"asOfTimestamp" to "fromTimestamp". That was my misunderstanding. So Now we
>have these two timestamp bounds: "fromTimestamp" and "untilTimestamp".
>- About point 5: Do we need system tests here? I assumed just
>integration tests were enough.
>- Regarding long vs timestamp instance: I think yes, that 's why I used
>Long as timestamp.
>
> Bests,
> Alieh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:28 PM Bruno Cadonna  wrote:
>
> > Hi Alieh,
> >
> > Thanks for the KIP!
> >
> >
> > Here my feedback.
> >
> > 1.
> > You can remove the private fields and constructors from the KIP. Those
> > are implementation details.
> >
> >
> > 2.
> > Some proposals for renamings
> >
> > in VersionedKeyQuery
> >
> > withKeyWithTimestampBound()
> >-> withKeyAndAsOf()
> >
> > withKeyWithTimestampRange()
> >-> withKeyAndTimeRange()
> >
> > in VersionedRangeQuery
> >
> > KeyRangeWithTimestampBound()
> >-> withKeyRangeAndAsOf()
> >
> > withLowerBoundWithTimestampBound()
> >-> withLowerBoundAndAsOf()
> >
> > withUpperBoundWithTimestampBound()
> >-> withUpperBoundAndAsOf()
> >
> > withNoBoundWithTimestampBound()
> >-> withNoBoundsAndAsOf
> >
> > keyRangeWithTimestampRange()
> >-> withKeyRangeAndTimeRange()
> >
> > withLowerBoundWithTimestampRange()
> >-> withLowerBoundAndTimeRange()
> >
> > withUpperBoundWithTimestampRange()
> >-> withUpperBounfAndTimeRange()
> >
> > withNoBoundWithTimestampRange()
> >-> withNoBoundsAndTimeRange()
> >
> >
> > 3.
> > Would it make sense to merge
> > withKeyLatestValue(final K key)
> > and
> > withKeyAllVersions(final K key)
> > into
> > withKey(final K key, final VersionsQualifier versionsQualifier)
> > where VersionsQualifier is an enum with values (ALL, LATEST). We could
> > also add EARLIEST if we feel it might be useful.
> > Same applies to all methods that end in LatestValue or AllVersions
> >
> >
> > 4.
> > I think getAsOfTimestamp() should not return the lower bound. If I query
> > a version as of a timestamp then the query should return the latest
> > version less than the timestamp.
> > I propose to rename the getters to getTimeFrom() and getTimeTo() as in
> > WindowRangeQuery.
> >
> >
> > 5.
> > Please add the Test Plan section.
> >
> >
> > Regarding long vs Instant: Did we miss to use Instant instead of long
> > for all interfaces of the versioned state stores?
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/2

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Thanks, Bruno, for the feedback.


   - I agree with both points 2 and 3. About 3: Having "VersionsQualifier"
   reduces the number of methods and makes everything less confusing. At the
   end, that will be easier to use for the developers.
   - About point 4: I renamed all the properties and parameters from
   "asOfTimestamp" to "fromTimestamp". That was my misunderstanding. So Now we
   have these two timestamp bounds: "fromTimestamp" and "untilTimestamp".
   - About point 5: Do we need system tests here? I assumed just
   integration tests were enough.
   - Regarding long vs timestamp instance: I think yes, that 's why I used
   Long as timestamp.

Bests,
Alieh






On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:28 PM Bruno Cadonna  wrote:

> Hi Alieh,
>
> Thanks for the KIP!
>
>
> Here my feedback.
>
> 1.
> You can remove the private fields and constructors from the KIP. Those
> are implementation details.
>
>
> 2.
> Some proposals for renamings
>
> in VersionedKeyQuery
>
> withKeyWithTimestampBound()
>-> withKeyAndAsOf()
>
> withKeyWithTimestampRange()
>-> withKeyAndTimeRange()
>
> in VersionedRangeQuery
>
> KeyRangeWithTimestampBound()
>-> withKeyRangeAndAsOf()
>
> withLowerBoundWithTimestampBound()
>-> withLowerBoundAndAsOf()
>
> withUpperBoundWithTimestampBound()
>-> withUpperBoundAndAsOf()
>
> withNoBoundWithTimestampBound()
>-> withNoBoundsAndAsOf
>
> keyRangeWithTimestampRange()
>-> withKeyRangeAndTimeRange()
>
> withLowerBoundWithTimestampRange()
>-> withLowerBoundAndTimeRange()
>
> withUpperBoundWithTimestampRange()
>-> withUpperBounfAndTimeRange()
>
> withNoBoundWithTimestampRange()
>-> withNoBoundsAndTimeRange()
>
>
> 3.
> Would it make sense to merge
> withKeyLatestValue(final K key)
> and
> withKeyAllVersions(final K key)
> into
> withKey(final K key, final VersionsQualifier versionsQualifier)
> where VersionsQualifier is an enum with values (ALL, LATEST). We could
> also add EARLIEST if we feel it might be useful.
> Same applies to all methods that end in LatestValue or AllVersions
>
>
> 4.
> I think getAsOfTimestamp() should not return the lower bound. If I query
> a version as of a timestamp then the query should return the latest
> version less than the timestamp.
> I propose to rename the getters to getTimeFrom() and getTimeTo() as in
> WindowRangeQuery.
>
>
> 5.
> Please add the Test Plan section.
>
>
> Regarding long vs Instant: Did we miss to use Instant instead of long
> for all interfaces of the versioned state stores?
>
>
> Best,
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/26/23 11:40 PM, Matthias J. Sax wrote:
> > Thanks for the KIP Alieh. Glad to see that we can add IQ to the new
> > versioned stores!
> >
> >
> >
> > Couple of questions:
> >
> >> single-key lookup with timestamp (upper) bound
> >
> > Not sure if "bound" is the right term? In the end, it's a point lookup
> > for a key plus timestamps, so it's an as-of timestamp (not a bound)? Of
> > course, the returned record would most likely have a different (smaller)
> > timestamp, but that's expected but does not make the passed in timestamp
> > a "bound" IMHO?
> >
> >> single-key query with timestamp range
> >> single-key all versions query
> >
> > Should we also add `withLowerTimeBound` and `withUpperTimeBound`
> > (similar to what `RangeQuery` has)?
> >
> > Btw: I think we should not pass `long` for timestamps, but `Instance`
> > types.
> >
> > For time-range queries, do we iterate over the values in timestamp
> > ascending order? If yes, the interface should specify it? Also, would it
> > make sense to add reverse order (also ok to exclude and only do if there
> > is demand in a follow up KIP; if not, please add to "Rejected
> > alternatives" section).
> >
> > Also, for time-range query, what are the exact bound for stuff we
> > include? In the end, a value was a "valid range" (conceptually), so do
> > we include a record if it's valid range overlaps the search time-range,
> > or must it be fully included? Or would we only say, that the `validFrom`
> > timestamp that is stored must be in the search range (what implies that
> > the lower end would be a non-overlapping but "fully included" bound,
> > while the upper end would be a overlapping bound).
> >
> > For key-range / time-range queries: do we return the result in ``
> > order or `` order? Also, what about reverse iterators?
> >
> > About ` ValueIterator` -- think the JavaDocs have c&p error in it for
> > `peekNextRecord` (also, should it be called `peekNextValue`? (Also some
> > other JavaDocs seem to be incomplete and not describe all parameters?)
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Matthias
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/26/23 7:24 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I would like to propose a KIP to support IQv2 for versioned state
> stores.
> >>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-960%3A+Support+interactive+queries+%28IQv2%29+for+versioned+state+stores
> >>
> >> Looking forward to your feedback!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Alieh
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Thanks, Matthias, for the feedback!

> Not sure if "bound" is the right term?
My understanding from your comment is that just the name "*bound*" is not
the right one, while having this query type makes sense.  Right? If *bound*
is a confusing word, we can simply change it to a better one. I do not have
a better idea at the moment. We can change it to "*whatever query type*
with untilTimestamp"? and change the corresponding method name from "
withWhateverWithTimestampBound" to "withWhateverWithUntilTimestamp"?

> Should we also add `withLowerTimeBound` and `withUpperTimeBound` (similar
to what `RangeQuery` has)?
In none of the range queries, we have a lower bound for time. If you look
at them, they have either both time bounds, no bounds (all-versions), or
just upper bound (UntilTimestamp as an input parameter). Do you think we
should add those types of queries as well? We can add them for both key and
range queries. I agree with you.

> Btw: I think we should not pass `long` for timestamps, but `Instance`
types.
Good point. Making the user convert the timestamp to a long does not make
sense.

> For time-range queries, do we iterate over the values in timestamp
ascending order?
That was my assumption, at least.
> If yes, the interface should specify it?
Mmmm. You mean having that in the method input parameters?
> Also, would it make sense to add reverse order
I think yes.

> Also, for time-range query, what are the exact bound for stuff we include?
I 'm not sure if I get what you mean. Your point is that we have the
following options and should choose one?!

   1. *(*asOfTimestamp, untilTimestamp*)*
   2. *(*asOfTimestamp, untilTimestamp*]*
   3. *[*asOfTimestamp, untilTimestamp*)*
   4. *[*asOfTimestamp, untilTimestamp*]*



> For key-range / time-range queries: do we return the result in ``
order or `` order? Also, what about reverse iterators?
I suggest having both. The user can specify that. About reverse iterators,
again, my idea is that it makes sense to have them.

> About ` ValueIterator` .
Thanks. I got that and corrected the KIP.



On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 11:40 PM Matthias J. Sax  wrote:

> Thanks for the KIP Alieh. Glad to see that we can add IQ to the new
> versioned stores!
>
>
>
> Couple of questions:
>
> > single-key lookup with timestamp (upper) bound
>
> Not sure if "bound" is the right term? In the end, it's a point lookup
> for a key plus timestamps, so it's an as-of timestamp (not a bound)? Of
> course, the returned record would most likely have a different (smaller)
> timestamp, but that's expected but does not make the passed in timestamp
> a "bound" IMHO?
>
> > single-key query with timestamp range
> > single-key all versions query
>
> Should we also add `withLowerTimeBound` and `withUpperTimeBound`
> (similar to what `RangeQuery` has)?
>
> Btw: I think we should not pass `long` for timestamps, but `Instance`
> types.
>
> For time-range queries, do we iterate over the values in timestamp
> ascending order? If yes, the interface should specify it? Also, would it
> make sense to add reverse order (also ok to exclude and only do if there
> is demand in a follow up KIP; if not, please add to "Rejected
> alternatives" section).
>
> Also, for time-range query, what are the exact bound for stuff we
> include? In the end, a value was a "valid range" (conceptually), so do
> we include a record if it's valid range overlaps the search time-range,
> or must it be fully included? Or would we only say, that the `validFrom`
> timestamp that is stored must be in the search range (what implies that
> the lower end would be a non-overlapping but "fully included" bound,
> while the upper end would be a overlapping bound).
>
> For key-range / time-range queries: do we return the result in ``
> order or `` order? Also, what about reverse iterators?
>
> About ` ValueIterator` -- think the JavaDocs have c&p error in it for
> `peekNextRecord` (also, should it be called `peekNextValue`? (Also some
> other JavaDocs seem to be incomplete and not describe all parameters?)
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Matthias
>
>
>
> On 7/26/23 7:24 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to propose a KIP to support IQv2 for versioned state stores.
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-960%3A+Support+interactive+queries+%28IQv2%29+for+versioned+state+stores
> >
> > Looking forward to your feedback!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alieh
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Bruno Cadonna]

Hi Alieh,

Thanks for the KIP!


Here my feedback.

1.
You can remove the private fields and constructors from the KIP. Those 
are implementation details.



2.
Some proposals for renamings

in VersionedKeyQuery

withKeyWithTimestampBound()
  -> withKeyAndAsOf()

withKeyWithTimestampRange()
  -> withKeyAndTimeRange()

in VersionedRangeQuery

KeyRangeWithTimestampBound()
  -> withKeyRangeAndAsOf()

withLowerBoundWithTimestampBound()
  -> withLowerBoundAndAsOf()

withUpperBoundWithTimestampBound()
  -> withUpperBoundAndAsOf()

withNoBoundWithTimestampBound()
  -> withNoBoundsAndAsOf

keyRangeWithTimestampRange()
  -> withKeyRangeAndTimeRange()

withLowerBoundWithTimestampRange()
  -> withLowerBoundAndTimeRange()

withUpperBoundWithTimestampRange()
  -> withUpperBounfAndTimeRange()

withNoBoundWithTimestampRange()
  -> withNoBoundsAndTimeRange()


3.
Would it make sense to merge
withKeyLatestValue(final K key)
and
withKeyAllVersions(final K key)
into
withKey(final K key, final VersionsQualifier versionsQualifier)
where VersionsQualifier is an enum with values (ALL, LATEST). We could 
also add EARLIEST if we feel it might be useful.

Same applies to all methods that end in LatestValue or AllVersions


4.
I think getAsOfTimestamp() should not return the lower bound. If I query 
a version as of a timestamp then the query should return the latest 
version less than the timestamp.
I propose to rename the getters to getTimeFrom() and getTimeTo() as in 
WindowRangeQuery.



5.
Please add the Test Plan section.


Regarding long vs Instant: Did we miss to use Instant instead of long 
for all interfaces of the versioned state stores?



Best,
Bruno








On 7/26/23 11:40 PM, Matthias J. Sax wrote:
Thanks for the KIP Alieh. Glad to see that we can add IQ to the new 
versioned stores!




Couple of questions:


single-key lookup with timestamp (upper) bound


Not sure if "bound" is the right term? In the end, it's a point lookup 
for a key plus timestamps, so it's an as-of timestamp (not a bound)? Of 
course, the returned record would most likely have a different (smaller) 
timestamp, but that's expected but does not make the passed in timestamp 
a "bound" IMHO?



single-key query with timestamp range
single-key all versions query


Should we also add `withLowerTimeBound` and `withUpperTimeBound` 
(similar to what `RangeQuery` has)?


Btw: I think we should not pass `long` for timestamps, but `Instance` 
types.


For time-range queries, do we iterate over the values in timestamp 
ascending order? If yes, the interface should specify it? Also, would it 
make sense to add reverse order (also ok to exclude and only do if there 
is demand in a follow up KIP; if not, please add to "Rejected 
alternatives" section).


Also, for time-range query, what are the exact bound for stuff we 
include? In the end, a value was a "valid range" (conceptually), so do 
we include a record if it's valid range overlaps the search time-range, 
or must it be fully included? Or would we only say, that the `validFrom` 
timestamp that is stored must be in the search range (what implies that 
the lower end would be a non-overlapping but "fully included" bound, 
while the upper end would be a overlapping bound).


For key-range / time-range queries: do we return the result in `` 
order or `` order? Also, what about reverse iterators?


About ` ValueIterator` -- think the JavaDocs have c&p error in it for 
`peekNextRecord` (also, should it be called `peekNextValue`? (Also some 
other JavaDocs seem to be incomplete and not describe all parameters?)



Thanks.



-Matthias



On 7/26/23 7:24 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:

Hi all,

I would like to propose a KIP to support IQv2 for versioned state stores.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-960%3A+Support+interactive+queries+%28IQv2%29+for+versioned+state+stores

Looking forward to your feedback!

Cheers,
Alieh

Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Matthias J. Sax]

Thanks for the KIP Alieh. Glad to see that we can add IQ to the new 
versioned stores!




Couple of questions:


single-key lookup with timestamp (upper) bound


Not sure if "bound" is the right term? In the end, it's a point lookup 
for a key plus timestamps, so it's an as-of timestamp (not a bound)? Of 
course, the returned record would most likely have a different (smaller) 
timestamp, but that's expected but does not make the passed in timestamp 
a "bound" IMHO?



single-key query with timestamp range
single-key all versions query


Should we also add `withLowerTimeBound` and `withUpperTimeBound` 
(similar to what `RangeQuery` has)?


Btw: I think we should not pass `long` for timestamps, but `Instance` types.

For time-range queries, do we iterate over the values in timestamp 
ascending order? If yes, the interface should specify it? Also, would it 
make sense to add reverse order (also ok to exclude and only do if there 
is demand in a follow up KIP; if not, please add to "Rejected 
alternatives" section).


Also, for time-range query, what are the exact bound for stuff we 
include? In the end, a value was a "valid range" (conceptually), so do 
we include a record if it's valid range overlaps the search time-range, 
or must it be fully included? Or would we only say, that the `validFrom` 
timestamp that is stored must be in the search range (what implies that 
the lower end would be a non-overlapping but "fully included" bound, 
while the upper end would be a overlapping bound).


For key-range / time-range queries: do we return the result in `` 
order or `` order? Also, what about reverse iterators?


About ` ValueIterator` -- think the JavaDocs have c&p error in it for 
`peekNextRecord` (also, should it be called `peekNextValue`? (Also some 
other JavaDocs seem to be incomplete and not describe all parameters?)



Thanks.



-Matthias



On 7/26/23 7:24 AM, Alieh Saeedi wrote:

Hi all,

I would like to propose a KIP to support IQv2 for versioned state stores.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-960%3A+Support+interactive+queries+%28IQv2%29+for+versioned+state+stores

Looking forward to your feedback!

Cheers,
Alieh

[DISCUSS] KIP-960: Support interactive queries (IQv2) for versioned state stores

[Alieh Saeedi]

Hi all,

I would like to propose a KIP to support IQv2 for versioned state stores.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-960%3A+Support+interactive+queries+%28IQv2%29+for+versioned+state+stores

Looking forward to your feedback!

Cheers,
Alieh