Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

As it works fine, I plan to upgrade to Pax Logging 2.2.2 for Karaf 4.4.4.

No need to wait for 4.5.x.

Regards
JB

On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 7:59 AM Grzegorz Grzybek  wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> For 2.2.x, Pax Logging 2.2.1 was the version where SLF4J 2.0 packages are
> exported (see: #504
> [1]).
>
> Mind that the API for SLF4J didn't really change and the "big" thing is
> different discovery of logging implementation (that's why outside of OSGi,
> SLF4J 2.0 has to be combined with Logback 1.3+ or dedicated
> log4j-slf4j2-impl). It doesn't really impact Pax Logging users.
>
> regards
> Grzegorz Grzybek
> ===
> [1]: https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.logging/issues/504
>
> pt., 21 lip 2023 o 06:35 Jean-Baptiste Onofré  napisał(a):
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm working on Karaf releases and plan to create 4.5.x after 4.4.4,
> > I'm a bit late in the preparation but the releases votes are planned
> > for next week.
> >
> > However, regarding slf4j 2, Pax Logging already exports the packages
> > so I have to check the Pax Logging versions used in Karaf.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 7:54 PM Łukasz Dywicki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am reactivating this thread because I just ran into issue with
> > > dependency which pulls slf4j 2.0.x API.
> > > Given it is already 6 months since last message in this topic, is it
> > > right time to start 4.5.x branch?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Łukasz
> > >
> > > On 13.01.2023 07:23, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> > > > Hi Robert,
> > > >
> > > > It makes sense. I will prepare 4.5.x on Jira and I will create the
> > > > 4.4.x branch and move main on the 4.5.x version.
> > > >
> > > > Let me first complete the 4.3.9 release and other Decanter/Cellar
> > > > releases first.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks !
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:45 PM Robert Varga  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> > > >>> On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm
> > curious.
> > > >>> I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
> > > >>
> > > >> Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch
> > > >> to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that
> > > >> points to Java 11+".
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Robert
> >

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Grzegorz Grzybek]

Hello

For 2.2.x, Pax Logging 2.2.1 was the version where SLF4J 2.0 packages are
exported (see: #504
[1]).

Mind that the API for SLF4J didn't really change and the "big" thing is
different discovery of logging implementation (that's why outside of OSGi,
SLF4J 2.0 has to be combined with Logback 1.3+ or dedicated
log4j-slf4j2-impl). It doesn't really impact Pax Logging users.

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek
===
[1]: https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.logging/issues/504

pt., 21 lip 2023 o 06:35 Jean-Baptiste Onofré  napisał(a):

> Hi
>
> I'm working on Karaf releases and plan to create 4.5.x after 4.4.4,
> I'm a bit late in the preparation but the releases votes are planned
> for next week.
>
> However, regarding slf4j 2, Pax Logging already exports the packages
> so I have to check the Pax Logging versions used in Karaf.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 7:54 PM Łukasz Dywicki 
> wrote:
> >
> > I am reactivating this thread because I just ran into issue with
> > dependency which pulls slf4j 2.0.x API.
> > Given it is already 6 months since last message in this topic, is it
> > right time to start 4.5.x branch?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Łukasz
> >
> > On 13.01.2023 07:23, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> > > Hi Robert,
> > >
> > > It makes sense. I will prepare 4.5.x on Jira and I will create the
> > > 4.4.x branch and move main on the 4.5.x version.
> > >
> > > Let me first complete the 4.3.9 release and other Decanter/Cellar
> > > releases first.
> > >
> > > Thanks !
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:45 PM Robert Varga  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> > >>> On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
> > >>>
> > >>> Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm
> curious.
> > >>> I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
> > >>
> > >> Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch
> > >> to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that
> > >> points to Java 11+".
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Robert
>

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi

I'm working on Karaf releases and plan to create 4.5.x after 4.4.4,
I'm a bit late in the preparation but the releases votes are planned
for next week.

However, regarding slf4j 2, Pax Logging already exports the packages
so I have to check the Pax Logging versions used in Karaf.

Regards
JB

On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 7:54 PM Łukasz Dywicki  wrote:
>
> I am reactivating this thread because I just ran into issue with
> dependency which pulls slf4j 2.0.x API.
> Given it is already 6 months since last message in this topic, is it
> right time to start 4.5.x branch?
>
> Cheers,
> Łukasz
>
> On 13.01.2023 07:23, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > It makes sense. I will prepare 4.5.x on Jira and I will create the
> > 4.4.x branch and move main on the 4.5.x version.
> >
> > Let me first complete the 4.3.9 release and other Decanter/Cellar
> > releases first.
> >
> > Thanks !
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:45 PM Robert Varga  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> >>> On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> >>>
>  Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
> >>>
> >>> Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.
> >>> I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
> >>
> >> Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch
> >> to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that
> >> points to Java 11+".
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Robert

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Łukasz Dywicki]

I am reactivating this thread because I just ran into issue with 
dependency which pulls slf4j 2.0.x API.
Given it is already 6 months since last message in this topic, is it 
right time to start 4.5.x branch?


Cheers,
Łukasz

On 13.01.2023 07:23, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi Robert,

It makes sense. I will prepare 4.5.x on Jira and I will create the
4.4.x branch and move main on the 4.5.x version.

Let me first complete the 4.3.9 release and other Decanter/Cellar
releases first.

Thanks !
Regards
JB

On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:45 PM Robert Varga  wrote:


On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:

On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:


Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.


Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.
I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.


Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch
to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that
points to Java 11+".

Regards,
Robert

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Robert,

It makes sense. I will prepare 4.5.x on Jira and I will create the
4.4.x branch and move main on the 4.5.x version.

Let me first complete the 4.3.9 release and other Decanter/Cellar
releases first.

Thanks !
Regards
JB

On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 9:45 PM Robert Varga  wrote:
>
> On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> > On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> >
> >> Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
> >
> > Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.
> > I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
>
> Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch
> to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that
> points to Java 11+".
>
> Regards,
> Robert

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Robert Varga]

On 08/01/2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:

On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:


Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.


Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious. 
I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.


Right, the karaf-4.4 contract is "YMMV". My proposal here is to switch 
to "./bin/karaf will refuse to run unless you have a JAVA_HOME that 
points to Java 11+".


Regards,
Robert

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Grzegorz Grzybek]

Sounds reasonable

+1 for making Karaf 4.5.x JDK 11 only with Pax Web 9 (Jetty 10).

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

pon., 9 sty 2023 o 09:14 Jean-Baptiste Onofré  napisał(a):

> We are still targeting code for JDK8, with JDK11 built anyway.
>
> We plan to switch to JDK 11+ only:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-7499
>
> Probably, we can plan this for 4.5.x (I planned to do it on 4.4.x, but
> maybe it makes more sense for 4.5.x).
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2023 at 8:33 AM Mark Derricutt  wrote:
> >
> > On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
> >
> > > Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
> >
> > Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.
> > I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > "The ease with which a change can be implemented has no relevance at all
> > to whether it is the right change for the (Java) Platform for all time."
> > — Mark Reinhold.
> >
> > Mark Derricutt
> > http://www.chaliceofblood.net
> > http://www.theoryinpractice.net
> > http://twitter.com/talios
> > http://facebook.com/mderricutt
> > https://mastodon.nz/@talios
>

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

We are still targeting code for JDK8, with JDK11 built anyway.

We plan to switch to JDK 11+ only:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-7499

Probably, we can plan this for 4.5.x (I planned to do it on 4.4.x, but
maybe it makes more sense for 4.5.x).

Regards
JB

On Sun, Jan 8, 2023 at 8:33 AM Mark Derricutt  wrote:
>
> On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>
> > Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.
>
> Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.
> I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.
>
>
>
> ---
> "The ease with which a change can be implemented has no relevance at all
> to whether it is the right change for the (Java) Platform for all time."
> — Mark Reinhold.
>
> Mark Derricutt
> http://www.chaliceofblood.net
> http://www.theoryinpractice.net
> http://twitter.com/talios
> http://facebook.com/mderricutt
> https://mastodon.nz/@talios

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Łukasz Dywicki]

It might depend on compiler behavior. AFAIR Java constants can be 
written down in class files as a literals which makes it still 
compatible with Java 8 since bytecode version is set to that version.

You can cross check that with decompiler output if you are curious. :-)

Cheers,
Łukasz

On 8.01.2023 08:33, Mark Derricutt wrote:

On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:


Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.


Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious. 
I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.




---
"The ease with which a change can be implemented has no relevance at all 
to whether it is the right change for the (Java) Platform for all time." 
— Mark Reinhold.


Mark Derricutt
http://www.chaliceofblood.net
http://www.theoryinpractice.net
http://twitter.com/talios
http://facebook.com/mderricutt
https://mastodon.nz/@talios

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Mark Derricutt]

On 8 Jan 2023, at 20:14, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:


Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.


Altho it seems we can run Karaf 4.4.x under JDK 8 - so now I'm curious.  
I assume nothings being targeting JDK 9+ byte code then.




---
"The ease with which a change can be implemented has no relevance at all 
to whether it is the right change for the (Java) Platform for all time." 
— Mark Reinhold.


Mark Derricutt
http://www.chaliceofblood.net
http://www.theoryinpractice.net
http://twitter.com/talios
http://facebook.com/mderricutt
https://mastodon.nz/@talios

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Robert,

Java 11 is not a point as it's already used on Karaf 4.4.x.

About slf4j 2.x/logback 1.4, it's already planned with Pax Logging
2.2.x. We plan to upgrade on Karaf 4.4.x (not sure it requires a 4.5.x
release).

On your point about Jetty 11 and jakarta namespace, there are a lot of
impacts, including on OSGi CM. So definitely, it makes sense to have
Karaf 4.5.x for that as the impact is important.

Let me list all dependencies/impacts from Jakarta namespace move.

Regards
JB

On Sun, Jan 8, 2023 at 12:16 AM Robert Varga  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> are there any plans for a karaf-4.5.x release?
>
> I think there is a number of breaking changes out there to warrant a
> rather major step:
>
> - Java 11+
> - slf4j-2.0.x
> - logback-1.4.x (Java 11, slf4j-2)
> - pax-web-9.0.x (Java 11, jetty-10.x)
>
> Also, I think it is time to plan for jetty-11, i.e. jakarta.ee
> namespace, as it is invariably coming down the pike, but that is a thing
> of its own.
>
> Key drivers here for me are slf4j-2 (finally out) and jetty-10 (9.4 is
> EOSL). Most of my projects are already on Java 17, all are on Java 11,
> so yeah, I am biased :)
>
> Thanks,
> Robert

Re: karaf-4.5.x?

[Grzegorz Grzybek]

Hello

Of course JBO has to answer, but I can give you some good news too ;)
(sorry for top-posting).

First - Karaf 4.4.x is already JDK11 only (kind of) - because it _can't_ be
compiled using JDK8 - see https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-7312
and
https://github.com/apache/karaf/blob/karaf-4.4.2/management/server/src/main/java/org/apache/karaf/management/internal/Activator.java#L115
- this constant is JDK9+ only.

About Jetty 11 - it's kept in line with 10.x and the only difference is
Servlet API used (4 with `javax.servlet` packages vs. 5 with
`jakarta.servlet` package). Usage in OSGi however is far from ready,
because OSGi CMPN 8.1 is just being released, however:

   - there's no HttpService chapter *at all* - there's only Whiteboard left
   and Web Apps (WABs) chapter is not updated to `jakarta`. See
   https://github.com/osgi/osgi/issues/499
   - Pax Web 10 (yes, 10) is work in progress, because there are lot of
   changes enforced by javax → jakarta migration. See
   https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.web/issues/1802

About Pax Web 9 - actually, it should be a matter of replacing version 8
with 9 without _any problems_ - the release is compatible and because Pax
Web 9 is JDK 11 only, it could switch (with minor changes related to
websocket handling from Jetty 9 to Jetty 10. I think some Karaf 4.4.x soon
could use Pax Web 9 and Jetty 10 - and that's where @Jean-Baptiste Onofré
 comment is needed ;)

About SLF4J2 - I just can't help but share an insight into how I work ;)
See:

   - I was working on Pax Web 10 and decided to run OSGi TCKs over it, so
   - I started checking https://github.com/osgi/osgi/ where the TCKs are
   stored, but I saw it's a `bnd` workspace, so
   - I started learning `bnd` and `bndtools`, because I'm pure Maven
   engineer, so
   - I got back to osgi/osgi project to check how they use `bnd` and saw
   that they run TCKs using Github Actions, so
   - I started learning Github Actions, because I never learned them
   because I always have this subconscious angst about exceed free plan, so
   - I decided to take simpler project and add Github Actions support there
   - I chose... Pax Logging, so
   - I got back to Pax Logging and recalled that it's about time to finish
   (created by me) https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.logging/issues/504
   - upgrade to SLF4J 2 with Logback 1.3

Whew - summarizing, SLF4J2 is already supported in `main` branch (2.2.x) of
Pax Logging and all the tests pass - the only issue I found was
https://jira.qos.ch/browse/LOGBACK-1716

So soon (maybe even today) I'm going to release Pax Logging 2.2.1 with:

   - Log4j2 2.19.0 (
   https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.logging/issues/505)
   - Reload4J 1.2.24 (
   https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.logging/issues/509) - just an
   update, no CVEs, no breaking changes
   - SLF4J2 2.0.6 - and I committed a heresy, but pax-logging-api will
   export two major versions (and more minor versions) of `org.slf4j` package:
   1.4.3, 1.5.11, 1.6.6, 1.7.36 and 2.0.6 - the first 4 versions were exported
   for long time, but I've never exported two different major versions before
   - fortunately OSGi can do it ;)
   - Logback 1.3.5 (upgrade from 1.2.11 for SLF4J 1.7.x), because Logback
   1.4.5 is to be used with `jakarta` packages and we don't do it (OSGi CMPN)
   yet.

I hope this long explanation answer is helpful ;)

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

niedz., 8 sty 2023 o 00:17 Robert Varga  napisał(a):

> Hello everyone,
>
> are there any plans for a karaf-4.5.x release?
>
> I think there is a number of breaking changes out there to warrant a
> rather major step:
>
> - Java 11+
> - slf4j-2.0.x
> - logback-1.4.x (Java 11, slf4j-2)
> - pax-web-9.0.x (Java 11, jetty-10.x)
>
> Also, I think it is time to plan for jetty-11, i.e. jakarta.ee
> namespace, as it is invariably coming down the pike, but that is a thing
> of its own.
>
> Key drivers here for me are slf4j-2 (finally out) and jetty-10 (9.4 is
> EOSL). Most of my projects are already on Java 17, all are on Java 11,
> so yeah, I am biased :)
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>