Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
Another note - we reuse the Kubernetes slack channel, and we would have no plans to remove that channel because we get a lot of joint overlap with kube development. Adding more channels to discuss means people just have to log into more places. > On Jul 12, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Colin Walters wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > >> Fedora didn't shut down its users@ list when it deployed >> discussions.fp.o. And adoption of Discourse in Fedora hasn't been very >> high outside of the Silverblue/CoreOS bubble. > > Eh, but the traditional Fedora community has a pretty high level of, hmm..how > to describe it...people likely to be "power email" users, the types of people > who know how to set up email filtering, may even run their own email servers > in 2019, etc. That said I think Discourse is "okay enough" for those > people, even though it's more "web page" than "email list" (where as mailman > 3 is more the other way around). > >> I'm not opposed to the idea of having an additional channel for user >> support with Discourse on okd.io, though. > > We already have too many channels, adding more isn't going to help. The > existing lists aren't high traffic, and my high level impression is the > people posting here are going to be fine with Discourse. > > The reason I mentioned commons Slack first is because it's the primary > entrypoint, and I think Discourse is a better *primary* entrypoint. > > (And not responding directly to Neil here) - Let's please keep proposals for > any changes to the *real time* stuff like Slack/IRC out of this discussion > because I'd like to focus on a clear and "direct" goal (Discourse replacing > mailman) - anything else scope creeps this a lot. > > > ___ > dev mailing list > dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com > http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > Fedora didn't shut down its users@ list when it deployed > discussions.fp.o. And adoption of Discourse in Fedora hasn't been very > high outside of the Silverblue/CoreOS bubble. Eh, but the traditional Fedora community has a pretty high level of, hmm..how to describe it...people likely to be "power email" users, the types of people who know how to set up email filtering, may even run their own email servers in 2019, etc. That said I think Discourse is "okay enough" for those people, even though it's more "web page" than "email list" (where as mailman 3 is more the other way around). > I'm not opposed to the idea of having an additional channel for user > support with Discourse on okd.io, though. We already have too many channels, adding more isn't going to help. The existing lists aren't high traffic, and my high level impression is the people posting here are going to be fine with Discourse. The reason I mentioned commons Slack first is because it's the primary entrypoint, and I think Discourse is a better *primary* entrypoint. (And not responding directly to Neil here) - Let's please keep proposals for any changes to the *real time* stuff like Slack/IRC out of this discussion because I'd like to focus on a clear and "direct" goal (Discourse replacing mailman) - anything else scope creeps this a lot. ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
On 12 Jul 2019, 15:52 +0100, Neal Gompa , wrote: > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:48 AM Michael Gugino wrote: > > > > I propose we keep the mailing list, and get back on Freenode for > > support instead of slack. In fact, I think we should move all > > openshift discussions that are not confidential to freenode. > > > > +1. It'd be nice if the IRC channel wasn't a dead zone. Pretty please? ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
Freenode+++ On 12 Jul 2019, 15:48 +0100, Michael Gugino , wrote: > I propose we keep the mailing list, and get back on Freenode for > support instead of slack. In fact, I think we should move all > openshift discussions that are not confidential to freenode. > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:12 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I think the Common's use of Slack is not a good match for "support". > > Requiring an invitation is also an impediment to quickly asking questions. > > Further Slack is proprietary, and also any discussion there won't be easily > > found by Google. > > > > On the other hand we have these mailing lists, which are fine but they're > > traditional mailing lists with all the tradeoffs there. > > > > I propose we shut down the user@ and dev@ lists and deploy a Discourse > > instance, which is what the cool kids ;) are doing: > > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ > > http://internals.rust-lang.org/ > > etc. > > > > Discourse is IMO really nice because for people who want a mailing list it > > can act like that, but for people who both want a modern web UI and most > > importantly just want to drop in occasionally and not be committed to > > receiving a stream of email, it works a lot better. Also importantly to me > > it's FOSS. > > > > I would also personally lean towards not using Slack too but I see that as > > a separate discussion - it's real time, and that's a distinct thing from > > discourse. If we get a lot of momentum in our Discourse though over Slack > > we can consider what to do later. > > > > ___ > > dev mailing list > > dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com > > http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev > > > > -- > Michael Gugino > Senior Software Engineer - OpenShift > mgug...@redhat.com > 540-846-0304 > > ___ > dev mailing list > dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com > http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:48 AM Michael Gugino wrote: > > I propose we keep the mailing list, and get back on Freenode for > support instead of slack. In fact, I think we should move all > openshift discussions that are not confidential to freenode. > +1. It'd be nice if the IRC channel wasn't a dead zone. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
I propose we keep the mailing list, and get back on Freenode for support instead of slack. In fact, I think we should move all openshift discussions that are not confidential to freenode. On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:12 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > Hi, > > I think the Common's use of Slack is not a good match for "support". > Requiring an invitation is also an impediment to quickly asking questions. > Further Slack is proprietary, and also any discussion there won't be easily > found by Google. > > On the other hand we have these mailing lists, which are fine but they're > traditional mailing lists with all the tradeoffs there. > > I propose we shut down the user@ and dev@ lists and deploy a Discourse > instance, which is what the cool kids ;) are doing: > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ > http://internals.rust-lang.org/ > etc. > > Discourse is IMO really nice because for people who want a mailing list it > can act like that, but for people who both want a modern web UI and most > importantly just want to drop in occasionally and not be committed to > receiving a stream of email, it works a lot better. Also importantly to me > it's FOSS. > > I would also personally lean towards not using Slack too but I see that as a > separate discussion - it's real time, and that's a distinct thing from > discourse. If we get a lot of momentum in our Discourse though over Slack we > can consider what to do later. > > ___ > dev mailing list > dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com > http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev -- Michael Gugino Senior Software Engineer - OpenShift mgug...@redhat.com 540-846-0304 ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
We’ve historically used StackOverflow for threaded human questions / response problems. Discourse feels like it would overlap a lot with that, especially since SO is still usually better for search engines > On Jul 12, 2019, at 10:18 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:11 AM Colin Walters wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I think the Common's use of Slack is not a good match for "support". >> Requiring an invitation is also an impediment to quickly asking questions. >> Further Slack is proprietary, and also any discussion there won't be easily >> found by Google. >> > > I agree here. I deeply dislike that we use Slack for that. And Slack > is terrible for a11y, too. > >> On the other hand we have these mailing lists, which are fine but they're >> traditional mailing lists with all the tradeoffs there. >> >> I propose we shut down the user@ and dev@ lists and deploy a Discourse >> instance, which is what the cool kids ;) are doing: >> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ >> http://internals.rust-lang.org/ >> etc. >> >> Discourse is IMO really nice because for people who want a mailing list it >> can act like that, but for people who both want a modern web UI and most >> importantly just want to drop in occasionally and not be committed to >> receiving a stream of email, it works a lot better. Also importantly to me >> it's FOSS. >> >> I would also personally lean towards not using Slack too but I see that as a >> separate discussion - it's real time, and that's a distinct thing from >> discourse. If we get a lot of momentum in our Discourse though over Slack >> we can consider what to do later. >> > > I would rather not see us move to Discourse for the mailing list > experience. I'd propose we upgrade to Mailman 3 with HyperKitty, as > other communities around us have done. The oVirt, Ceph, and Podman > communities already use it. > > Fedora didn't shut down its users@ list when it deployed > discussions.fp.o. And adoption of Discourse in Fedora hasn't been very > high outside of the Silverblue/CoreOS bubble. > > I'm not opposed to the idea of having an additional channel for user > support with Discourse on okd.io, though. > > > > -- > 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! > > ___ > dev mailing list > dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com > http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Re: Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:11 AM Colin Walters wrote: > > Hi, > > I think the Common's use of Slack is not a good match for "support". > Requiring an invitation is also an impediment to quickly asking questions. > Further Slack is proprietary, and also any discussion there won't be easily > found by Google. > I agree here. I deeply dislike that we use Slack for that. And Slack is terrible for a11y, too. > On the other hand we have these mailing lists, which are fine but they're > traditional mailing lists with all the tradeoffs there. > > I propose we shut down the user@ and dev@ lists and deploy a Discourse > instance, which is what the cool kids ;) are doing: > https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ > http://internals.rust-lang.org/ > etc. > > Discourse is IMO really nice because for people who want a mailing list it > can act like that, but for people who both want a modern web UI and most > importantly just want to drop in occasionally and not be committed to > receiving a stream of email, it works a lot better. Also importantly to me > it's FOSS. > > I would also personally lean towards not using Slack too but I see that as a > separate discussion - it's real time, and that's a distinct thing from > discourse. If we get a lot of momentum in our Discourse though over Slack we > can consider what to do later. > I would rather not see us move to Discourse for the mailing list experience. I'd propose we upgrade to Mailman 3 with HyperKitty, as other communities around us have done. The oVirt, Ceph, and Podman communities already use it. Fedora didn't shut down its users@ list when it deployed discussions.fp.o. And adoption of Discourse in Fedora hasn't been very high outside of the Silverblue/CoreOS bubble. I'm not opposed to the idea of having an additional channel for user support with Discourse on okd.io, though. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
Proposal: Deploy and switch to Discourse
Hi, I think the Common's use of Slack is not a good match for "support". Requiring an invitation is also an impediment to quickly asking questions. Further Slack is proprietary, and also any discussion there won't be easily found by Google. On the other hand we have these mailing lists, which are fine but they're traditional mailing lists with all the tradeoffs there. I propose we shut down the user@ and dev@ lists and deploy a Discourse instance, which is what the cool kids ;) are doing: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ http://internals.rust-lang.org/ etc. Discourse is IMO really nice because for people who want a mailing list it can act like that, but for people who both want a modern web UI and most importantly just want to drop in occasionally and not be committed to receiving a stream of email, it works a lot better. Also importantly to me it's FOSS. I would also personally lean towards not using Slack too but I see that as a separate discussion - it's real time, and that's a distinct thing from discourse. If we get a lot of momentum in our Discourse though over Slack we can consider what to do later. ___ dev mailing list dev@lists.openshift.redhat.com http://lists.openshift.redhat.com/openshiftmm/listinfo/dev
