Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
On Mon, November 21, 2005 14:14, Steven Shelton wrote: > Chad Smith wrote: > >>This is a good thing, though, right? I mean, people have been saying that >> if >>MS would only support ODF, everything would be just fine. So if MS comes >> up >>with an XML-based truly Open Standard (approved by ISO), then OOo could >> use >>it, MSO could use it, KOffice could use it, AbiWord could use it, >>WordPerfect could use it, etc. etc. etc. - and all would open 100% right, >> as >>long as the people making the software read and followed the ISO-approved >>Open Standard. Is that a correct statement? So why would it matter if ODF >> or >>MSO-OpenXML, (or whatever it will be called) gets approved by ISO? If >> it's >>open, it's open, right? >> >>What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying >> to >>get at. >> > > MS does not do truly open standards. Most likely, what MS is planning to > do is submit their existing XML as an "open standard" and then, in their > applications, utilize the "open standard" and then add proprietary > information to it when the application saves. That way, MS Office can > open everyone else's files reliably but nobody else can open MS Office > files reliably, even though they are "based on the open standard." It's > the same game they played with HTML standards. Nothing new. > That would be precisely my concern. Don -- DC Parris http://matheteuo.org/ http://chaddb.sourceforge.net/ "Hey man, whatever pickles your file!" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Chad Smith wrote: > On 11/21/05, John McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Just heard a rumour from a journalist reading an embargoed press release > > that Microsoft will announce an XML file format for Office which they > > will submit to ISO as an open-standard. The journalist claimed it would > > be announced at midnight CET. > > > > The monopolist is on the defensive. > > > > John > > > > This is a good thing, though, right? I mean, people have been saying that if > MS would only support ODF, everything would be just fine. So if MS comes up > with an XML-based truly Open Standard (approved by ISO), then OOo could use > it, MSO could use it, KOffice could use it, AbiWord could use it, > WordPerfect could use it, etc. etc. etc. - and all would open 100% right, as > long as the people making the software read and followed the ISO-approved > Open Standard. Is that a correct statement? So why would it matter if ODF or > MSO-OpenXML, (or whatever it will be called) gets approved by ISO? If it's > open, it's open, right? > > What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying to > get at. They could keep the proprietary, secret "binary key" as part of their specification. Whether ISO would approve it with that key still intact is another question, but that would definitely put it in the category of "bad thing" for me. YMMV. > > - Chad Smith > http://www.gimpshop.net/ > Because everyone loves free software! > -- J. David Eisenberg http://catcode.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 10:00 -0500, Chad Smith wrote: SNIP! > Seriously, what other improvement have their been between 1.1.5 and 2.0? > Other than ODF, of course. Hi Chad, There is a list of new features in OOo 2.0 in the knowledgebase, but some of the features of most interest for me include: * Digital Signatures * Scripting Framework - allows other languages for scripting * XForms support * New database features and capabilities Just to name a few. Regards Jonathon -- OOo Tips: http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au/tips.rss OOo Knowledgebase: http://mindmeld.cybersite.com.au Training4Linux: http://www.training4linux.com Cybersite Consulting: http://www.cybersite.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
The FT has broken the embargo: http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e9f5c0f8-5ab7-11da-8628-779e2340.html John On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 18:47 +, John McCreesh wrote: > Just heard a rumour from a journalist reading an embargoed press release > that Microsoft will announce an XML file format for Office which they > will submit to ISO as an open-standard. The journalist claimed it would > be announced at midnight CET. > > The monopolist is on the defensive. > John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
Steven Shelton wrote: MS does not do truly open standards. Most likely, what MS is planning to do is submit their existing XML as an "open standard" and then, in their applications, utilize the "open standard" and then add proprietary information to it when the application saves. That way, MS Office can open everyone else's files reliably but nobody else can open MS Office files reliably, even though they are "based on the open standard." It's the same game they played with HTML standards. Nothing new. Okay, that's something I didn't think of. But I'd like to point out that MS will have a harder time doing that because: 1. They wouldn't be complying with their own standard. 2. People are wiser and will be watching for dirty tricks. Cheers, Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ No trees were harmed in the creation of this email. \/_/ However, a significant number of electrons were / were severely inconvenienced. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 14:03 -0500, Chad Smith wrote: > On 11/21/05, John McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Just heard a rumour from a journalist reading an embargoed press release > > that Microsoft will announce an XML file format for Office which they > > will submit to ISO as an open-standard. The journalist claimed it would > > be announced at midnight CET. > > > > The monopolist is on the defensive. > > > > John > > > > This is a good thing, though, right? I mean, people have been saying that if > MS would only support ODF, everything would be just fine. So if MS comes up > with an XML-based truly Open Standard (approved by ISO), then OOo could use > it, MSO could use it, KOffice could use it, AbiWord could use it, > WordPerfect could use it, etc. etc. etc. - and all would open 100% right, as > long as the people making the software read and followed the ISO-approved > Open Standard. Is that a correct statement? So why would it matter if ODF or > MSO-OpenXML, (or whatever it will be called) gets approved by ISO? If it's > open, it's open, right? Yes and no. The format needs to be owned and maintained by a vendor-neutral standards body, it needs to be able to be implemented freely by any software package, and anyone who might have any IPR claims to the format needs to have openly relinquished any patent etc encumbrances in perpetuity. (I think that's everything - anyone for any more?) This is exactly the process that OpenDocument has gone through. The world doesn't really need another standard. However, a truly open-standard office format meeting the above criteria and endorsed by MS is clearly a better proposition that one which meets the criteria but isn't endorsed by MS. > What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying to > get at. Only *partially* meet the above criteria. In particular, failing to hand over ownership and maintenance to a body they don't control. John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
Chad Smith wrote: This is a good thing, though, right? I mean, people have been saying that if MS would only support ODF, everything would be just fine. So if MS comes up with an XML-based truly Open Standard (approved by ISO), then OOo could use it, MSO could use it, KOffice could use it, AbiWord could use it, WordPerfect could use it, etc. etc. etc. - and all would open 100% right, as long as the people making the software read and followed the ISO-approved Open Standard. Is that a correct statement? So why would it matter if ODF or MSO-OpenXML, (or whatever it will be called) gets approved by ISO? If it's open, it's open, right? What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying to get at. MS does not do truly open standards. Most likely, what MS is planning to do is submit their existing XML as an "open standard" and then, in their applications, utilize the "open standard" and then add proprietary information to it when the application saves. That way, MS Office can open everyone else's files reliably but nobody else can open MS Office files reliably, even though they are "based on the open standard." It's the same game they played with HTML standards. Nothing new. -- Steven Shelton Twilight Media & Design www.TwilightMD.com www.GLOAMING.us -=-=- Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery. -=-=- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
Chad Smith wrote: What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying to get at. Even MS couldn't make this a bad thing (I don't think). It would be interesting to watch. Maybe they are feeling a little competition from OpenDocument after all... Cheers, Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ No trees were harmed in the creation of this email. \/_/ However, a significant number of electrons were / were severely inconvenienced. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
On 11/21/05, John McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just heard a rumour from a journalist reading an embargoed press release > that Microsoft will announce an XML file format for Office which they > will submit to ISO as an open-standard. The journalist claimed it would > be announced at midnight CET. > > The monopolist is on the defensive. > > John This is a good thing, though, right? I mean, people have been saying that if MS would only support ODF, everything would be just fine. So if MS comes up with an XML-based truly Open Standard (approved by ISO), then OOo could use it, MSO could use it, KOffice could use it, AbiWord could use it, WordPerfect could use it, etc. etc. etc. - and all would open 100% right, as long as the people making the software read and followed the ISO-approved Open Standard. Is that a correct statement? So why would it matter if ODF or MSO-OpenXML, (or whatever it will be called) gets approved by ISO? If it's open, it's open, right? What could MS do that would make this a bad thing? That's what I'm trying to get at. - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ Because everyone loves free software!
[Marketing] Microsoft to announce open-standard XML file format support at midnight CET
Just heard a rumour from a journalist reading an embargoed press release that Microsoft will announce an XML file format for Office which they will submit to ISO as an open-standard. The journalist claimed it would be announced at midnight CET. The monopolist is on the defensive. John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
On 11/21/05, Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 16:59 +0800, Jacqueline McNally wrote: > > That is, what other redeeming features does > > OpenOffice.org have, other than OpenDocument? In the longer term ODF means there are likely to be a wider range of > competing products and each will have its niche markets. If you want a > lightweight WP on line, Writer is not going to be as good a choice as > Writely, however, if you want excellent .doc filters Writer would be a > better choice. It might well be that people will use combinations. > Writer for complex documents where .doc import is essential and Writely > for general letters etc. I think this is one of the exciting things > about ODF, it injects competition and enables a variety of technologies > better fitted to specific tasks than one sledge hammer to crack every > nut. The view that OOo will take over from MSO with 90%+ of the market > might not happen, OOo might settle at say 50% of the market with the > other 50% taken by a variety of web based, compact pda editors and > alternative interface apps, maybe some proprietary apps. No reason not > to have this type of development if there is confidence that files can > be transferred between the apps reliably. > Even answering the question "what does OOo have other than ODF, you still spent more than half your email talking about the wonders of ODF. And about a 1/3 of it complaining about OOo. This is a marketing list for OOo, not for ODF, and not to tear down OOo. Are you a MS shill? Are you a troll? Why don't you go play with your friends on the other side, Ian? See, you have your agenda - which is ODF, obviously - it's your baby, it's your thing. It's not in competition with the goals of OOo, so that's good. You bring out what you see as a potential problem with OOo, and you try to get it fixed. It's not fair for me to attack you because of that is it? I mean, OOo supports ODF, in fact, it's the default format, so they are not mutually exclusive goals. I'm the same as you, Ian. I like Windows - it's my main OS at home. It's not in competition with the goals of OOo, so that's good. I bring out things I see as potential problems with OOo, and I try to get them fixed. It's not fair for me to be attacked because of that is it? In fact, more people use OOo on Windows than any other OS, so they are not mutually exclusive goals. - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ Because everyone loves free software!
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 16:59 +0800, Jacqueline McNally wrote: > "The Web Word Processor, today released support for OpenDocument Format > (ODF), the open standard document format backed by Sun Microsystems, IBM > and Adobe. Starting today, Writely users can upload documents into > Writely from Microsoft Word and Sun Microsystems' OpenOffice.org, as > well as save the documents back into either of those formats. Sun and > Google announced last month their intention to explore jointly enhancing > and promoting OpenOffice.org." > > From: > http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-21-2005/0004220104&EDATE= > > With the increasing number of products that are supporting OpenDocument, > I would like us to discuss how to collate and categorise these and other > competing products. That is, what other redeeming features does > OpenOffice.org have, other than OpenDocument? Cross platform, best Microsoft filters, comprehensive set of apps. User Interface is more familiar to MS users than say KOffice. OOo has a bigger installed base than any other XML based office suite and so is the market leader of this grouping. Only MSO 12 has any chance of changing that in the next 2 or 3 years and that is by no means a certainty. Installed base is important as we have seen with products in the past. In the longer term ODF means there are likely to be a wider range of competing products and each will have its niche markets. If you want a lightweight WP on line, Writer is not going to be as good a choice as Writely, however, if you want excellent .doc filters Writer would be a better choice. It might well be that people will use combinations. Writer for complex documents where .doc import is essential and Writely for general letters etc. I think this is one of the exciting things about ODF, it injects competition and enables a variety of technologies better fitted to specific tasks than one sledge hammer to crack every nut. The view that OOo will take over from MSO with 90%+ of the market might not happen, OOo might settle at say 50% of the market with the other 50% taken by a variety of web based, compact pda editors and alternative interface apps, maybe some proprietary apps. No reason not to have this type of development if there is confidence that files can be transferred between the apps reliably. The biggest problem for OOo is its monolithic design. If it was many smaller interconnecting programs it would be possible to build almost any style app to suit the users needs. If the roadmap does not go along that path, then its going to be increasingly difficult to compete with collective tools that will provide much more user flexibility. The good news is that this won't happen overnight so there is some time, but the longer its left, the more likely that the boat will be missed. This is where design does affect marketing. Regards -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
Alexandro Colorado wrote: Seriously, what other improvement have their been between 1.1.5 and 2.0? Other than ODF, of course. Base module, more rows support on Calc, Wizards to do mailmerge, better support for plug-ins (extensions), more user friendly too. It's also faster on Linux, and it looks more like a native app. Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ No trees were harmed in the creation of this email. \/_/ However, a significant number of electrons were / were severely inconvenienced. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:00:38 -, Chad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Seriously, what other improvement have their been between 1.1.5 and 2.0? Other than ODF, of course. Base module, more rows support on Calc, Wizards to do mailmerge, better support for plug-ins (extensions), more user friendly too. Line numbering improvements, FontArt, AutoForms, improved style manager. -- Alexandro Colorado CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES http://es.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
On 11/21/05, Jacqueline McNally <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "The Web Word Processor, today released support for OpenDocument Format > (ODF), the open standard document format backed by Sun Microsystems, IBM > and Adobe. Starting today, Writely users can upload documents into > Writely from Microsoft Word and Sun Microsystems' OpenOffice.org, as > well as save the documents back into either of those formats. Sun and > Google announced last month their intention to explore jointly enhancing > and promoting OpenOffice.org." That's cool. I like Writely. I don't know if Writely is going to be huge, but it is at least one of the firsts in a line of stuff that's gonna be huge - that is, web apps thjat replace dekstop apps. From: > > http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-21-2005/0004220104&EDATE= > > With the increasing number of products that are supporting OpenDocument, > I would like us to discuss how to collate and categorise these and other > competing products. That is, what other redeeming features does > OpenOffice.org have, other than OpenDocument? > I tried asking the same question, and didn't get much of a response. From what I can tell, OOo 2.0 has all the same features that 1.1.5 had, like export to PDF, export to Flash, support for the major file formats, (MSO, WP, etc.), many languages, cross-platform, free, Free, open source, can be installed on a USB drive or CD-Rom for portability. It has the benefit of multiple modes, it's not just a a word processor, (like Writely), it's also a spreadsheet, presentation program, vector graphics editor, database, HTML editor, equation editor, in an intragrated suite that works great together. And, of course, the list goes on, but, like I said, I saw all this (with the exceptions of WP support in the orginial download and an included database backend) in 1.1.5, actually in 1.1.0. One thing that has improved, and I'm very grateful for this, as it was the very first question I had about OpenOffice.org, they included a Word Count, right where it's supposed to be! Seriously, what other improvement have their been between 1.1.5 and 2.0? Other than ODF, of course. -- - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ Because everyone loves free software!
Re: [Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
Jacqueline McNally wrote: "The Web Word Processor, today released support for OpenDocument Format (ODF), Whoo hoo!! This is so cool. I just tried Writely, and indeed, it works! I wrote a sample document and saved as an OpenDocument file. Very nice. It's web-based, so that makes it cross-platform, it has a simple and slick interface, and of course, it's faster than OOo. I like it. This is an excellent alternative because now you can start sending OpenDocument files to all your friends without asking them to download a 70MB file to view and edit it. That download size is a big impediment to the spread of OpenDocument and Writely offers a way around it. Yay! With the increasing number of products that are supporting OpenDocument, I would like us to discuss how to collate and categorise these and other competing products. That is, what other redeeming features does OpenOffice.org have, other than OpenDocument? If it helps, the OpenDocument Fellowship maintains a page with products along with their support for OpenDocument: http://opendocumentfellowship.org/Applications/HomePage I hope it's useful. Cheers, Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ No trees were harmed in the creation of this email. \/_/ However, a significant number of electrons were / were severely inconvenienced. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Writely supports OpenDocument
"The Web Word Processor, today released support for OpenDocument Format (ODF), the open standard document format backed by Sun Microsystems, IBM and Adobe. Starting today, Writely users can upload documents into Writely from Microsoft Word and Sun Microsystems' OpenOffice.org, as well as save the documents back into either of those formats. Sun and Google announced last month their intention to explore jointly enhancing and promoting OpenOffice.org." From: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-21-2005/0004220104&EDATE= With the increasing number of products that are supporting OpenDocument, I would like us to discuss how to collate and categorise these and other competing products. That is, what other redeeming features does OpenOffice.org have, other than OpenDocument? Regards Jacqueline McNally Lead, OpenOffice.org Marketing Project Are you a computer angel? (www.computerangels.org.au) Linux.conf.au 2006 (www.linux.conf.au) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
