Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
On Saturday 13 October 2007 17:10, NoOp wrote: On 10/12/2007 12:46 AM, Graham Lauder wrote: On Friday 12 October 2007 01:37, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi there, as promised, we still have the option of doing merchandising with the Sun funds. I've started a discussion on the wiki at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:MarketingCampaign_Q3-2007 Cheers GL Why thank you for your positive contribution to the discussion. You marketing folks are just... t-shirts on poor kids, CD's on Kellogs cereal boxes; what a concept! Maybe you could even contact Post Cereal and do a Honey Bunches of OOo for poor people commercial. Unfortunately we are hamstrung by the requirements of the donor. In this particular case, it was to be spent on Merchandise, but then you would have known that if you'd taken the time to do a bit of research My recommendation is that you take the t-shirt money and silly OOo on a cereal box ideas and fund the library education projects. If you want to give t-shirts do it in public libraries and/or schools (where you give *both* CD's *and* learning seminars on how to use OOo in those environments). And how many people would this influence and how many OOo users would this require to give up their time to go to libraries and schools and so forth. Blissfully ignoring the logistics involved in such a plan just shows off your ignorance and makes you look foolish. So for this Plan of yours How do we find the thousands of people to go into the libraries and schools all around the world and do these seminars... for no cost because with this budget we could only pay them a few cents each How do we distribute the Merchandise to these places... all round the world... at no cost. You don't even know how much money we're talking about I dare say I'm back to the users list... you guys are just too bizarre. Bear in mind that these comments are from a very faithful OOo user, I'm pretty shocked and dismayed by the ideas suggested here. These are all acceptable marketing strategies, some a little outside the box but not what I would call outrageous, if you don't like them then suggest alternatives. (also keep in mind that your posts/ideas are open for anyone on the internet to see - so I'm sure that the competition is enjoying the ideas as well). sarcasmI'm sure we never knew that, an open source project caught out being open./sarcasm It should be pointed out that the competition as you call them, spends on marketing, what we are talking about here, approximately every two minutes, 24/7/365 Good luck with your marketing campaign. Thank you but your trolling is appreciated no more here than it is on the Users List, and yes I do subscribe. -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Moderator New Zealand www.theingots.org.nz GET DRESSED : GET OOOGEAR Gear for the well dressed OOo Advocate www.ooogear.co.nz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
On 10/12/2007 11:04 PM, Graham Lauder wrote: Thank you but your trolling is appreciated no more here than it is on the Users List, and yes I do subscribe. I've been trolling the users list...? Right. You've posted on the users list exactly how many times? Reviewing the archives back to 2001 I find one post by you; a response to one of my posts with you advising about Ctrl+alt+esc in KDE and Gnome. Thanks for your contribution to the users list. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] OT: Calling for Patent Reform
Hi all, I realise my post is a bit OT, but... For what it's worth, I think we're way overdue for patent reform here in the USA: http://blue-gnu.biz/content/when_bullies_rule_call_patent_reform_america Arr! Don -- D.C. Parris Minister, Journalist, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
Hej Alejandro and all others, Good to see that there is a solid discussion going on - to get different perspectives and to do some open, liberal and creative brainstorming what could be done. If it was up to me to fund a campaing to market OOo to poor people, I would have drop it in a beat. I preffer OOo to win in the enterprise than in the rural regions on a very isolated area. Once we got the enterprise, then I will think to go to the more general population, and after that i will think on rural areas in first world countries and after that I will think of targeting third world countries and after that I will think on poor people. at the outset, i dont think anyone here advocates handing out t-shirts to poor kids who have never seen a computer. now about the poor people/enterprise focus, of course it would be more valuable to win the enterprise market (as opposed to people in rural areas in third world countries) and have them use openoffice and the strategy you outline makes a lot of sense. but this enterprise market is also highly competitive and millions/billions of dollars are spent there with Google and Microsoft being active. With this very small, particular marketing campaign we are talking about here, i believe, its effect and value to openoffice and its impact would be higher in poorer, second world countries (where there is an infrastructure in place, of course) because the market there is less competitive and the effect of each dollar spend is - imho - higher (the returns are perhaps lower too; though not necessarily because i believe making a university becoming a dedicated open office user is of higher value than a small company). to me, spending money/merchandise in conjunction with education in developing countries has the advantage that it increases brand awareness there with the potential to get some positive PR out of it as well (especially the latter is not possible when focussing on enterprises). also, education and universities in particular have the other advantage that user (student) fluctuation is higher as compared to companies and more people get to know openoffice. It doesn't sound smart to waste limited resources on a 'feel good idea' but not really a targeted goal in mind. totally agreed. but focussing on education in (second world) countries is a targeted goal and one that makes some sense (to me). -- Coreteam VN - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
Hi all, In the spirit of this free exchange of ideas and opinions mentioned just now by CTVN, I just wanted to mention that NoOp is not alone in seeing this potential campaign in a unfavorable light. When I first read what you all were planning, I'm sorry to say, I grimaced. Using less-privileged children to market the product and community just seemed to have exploitation written all over it. CTVN explains the situation well and clearly communicates how such a campaign would benefit the cause. But I can see NoOp's point of view too, and it's the one I share. My concern is that OOo will come off looking less idealistic and more Media-hungry than it is, that people will see-right-through this as an attempt to attract attention and not actually help the kids. It's just a point of view, but one that deserves to be voiced, especially here in this discussion at this point in time. I'd hate for others to think that NoOp is the only one who sees this attempt this way (where there could be thousands more who see it from this point of view if the campaign succeeds). -Nik (I don't mean to halt progress, just speaking honestly) - Original Message From: CTVN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org Sent: Saturday, 13 October, 2007 6:06:19 PM Subject: Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds Hej Alejandro and all others, Good to see that there is a solid discussion going on - to get different perspectives and to do some open, liberal and creative brainstorming what could be done. If it was up to me to fund a campaing to market OOo to poor people, I would have drop it in a beat. I preffer OOo to win in the enterprise than in the rural regions on a very isolated area. Once we got the enterprise, then I will think to go to the more general population, and after that i will think on rural areas in first world countries and after that I will think of targeting third world countries and after that I will think on poor people. at the outset, i dont think anyone here advocates handing out t-shirts to poor kids who have never seen a computer. now about the poor people/enterprise focus, of course it would be more valuable to win the enterprise market (as opposed to people in rural areas in third world countries) and have them use openoffice and the strategy you outline makes a lot of sense. but this enterprise market is also highly competitive and millions/billions of dollars are spent there with Google and Microsoft being active. With this very small, particular marketing campaign we are talking about here, i believe, its effect and value to openoffice and its impact would be higher in poorer, second world countries (where there is an infrastructure in place, of course) because the market there is less competitive and the effect of each dollar spend is - imho - higher (the returns are perhaps lower too; though not necessarily because i believe making a university becoming a dedicated open office user is of higher value than a small company). to me, spending money/merchandise in conjunction with education in developing countries has the advantage that it increases brand awareness there with the potential to get some positive PR out of it as well (especially the latter is not possible when focussing on enterprises). also, education and universities in particular have the other advantage that user (student) fluctuation is higher as compared to companies and more people get to know openoffice. It doesn't sound smart to waste limited resources on a 'feel good idea' but not really a targeted goal in mind. totally agreed. but focussing on education in (second world) countries is a targeted goal and one that makes some sense (to me). -- Coreteam VN - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html
Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
On Saturday 13 October 2007 21:06, CTVN wrote: Hej Alejandro and all others, Good to see that there is a solid discussion going on - to get different perspectives and to do some open, liberal and creative brainstorming what could be done. If it was up to me to fund a campaing to market OOo to poor people, I would have drop it in a beat. I preffer OOo to win in the enterprise than in the rural regions on a very isolated area. Once we got the enterprise, then I will think to go to the more general population, and after that i will think on rural areas in first world countries and after that I will think of targeting third world countries and after that I will think on poor people. at the outset, i dont think anyone here advocates handing out t-shirts to poor kids who have never seen a computer. now about the poor people/enterprise focus, of course it would be more valuable to win the enterprise market (as opposed to people in rural areas in third world countries) and have them use openoffice and the strategy you outline makes a lot of sense. but this enterprise market is also highly competitive and millions/billions of dollars are spent there with Google and Microsoft being active. With this very small, particular marketing campaign we are talking about here, i believe, its effect and value to openoffice and its impact would be higher in poorer, second world countries (where there is an infrastructure in place, of course) because the market there is less competitive and the effect of each dollar spend is - imho - higher (the returns are perhaps lower too; though not necessarily because i believe making a university becoming a dedicated open office user is of higher value than a small company). to me, spending money/merchandise in conjunction with education in developing countries has the advantage that it increases brand awareness there with the potential to get some positive PR out of it as well (especially the latter is not possible when focussing on enterprises). also, education and universities in particular have the other advantage that user (student) fluctuation is higher as compared to companies and more people get to know openoffice. Agree with everything you say. I think in the enterprise market, brand awareness is not really an issue. I think most IT professionals would know we exist. It's true that they are often woefully misinformed past that point but that's for a different campaign. Education institutions have a number of advantages: The target audience gather in a small geographical area. This means the logistics of distributing Marketing Merchandise of any description are simplified considerably. The audience is relatively sophisticated and being a young consumer demographic they react positively to this sort of initiative. Vocational tertiary institutions in a developing country, good target and done right would generate press reaction. It doesn't sound smart to waste limited resources on a 'feel good idea' but not really a targeted goal in mind. totally agreed. but focussing on education in (second world) countries is a targeted goal and one that makes some sense (to me). I agree wholeheartedly. Is there anyone in the project that has an institution or institutions in their area that fits that description. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Moderator New Zealand www.theingots.org.nz GET DRESSED : GET OOOGEAR Gear for the well dressed OOo Advocate www.ooogear.co.nz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
Hi Nik, My concern is that OOo will come off looking less idealistic and more Media-hungry than it is, that people will see-right-through this as an attempt to attract attention and not actually help the kids. about selfish media hungriness and actually helping the kids (students), as mentioned in the other posting, thats why we advocate the merchandise funds to be used in conjunction with OO courses where the kids/students learn something useful too - something that is useful for them (and not only OO). and with a serious committment regarding this focus on usefulness for the student, i believe media hungriness can be excused too. -- Coreteam VN - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: Merchandising from Sun funds
Is there anyone in the project that has an institution or institutions in their area that fits that description. Cheers GL Alan mentioned South Africa: http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=devmsgNo=25654 -- Coreteam VN - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds
Hello there, and sorry for my late response. I have about 100 unread messages as of now, so I'm trying to work through my mailbox. :-) Thanks for this discussion! I'm really glad that we have so many creative minds in here with so many great ideas. You really came up with great ideas we should think and decide about. I ask everyone of you, please add your idea to the Wiki so we have it available for further reference! As written to Graham Lauder on [EMAIL PROTECTED]: However, I think we could discuss over this issue for months, and in the end, we don't have anything, so I'd definitely vote for producing those t-shirts and maybe mugs/mouse pads/bags as soon as possible, so we have used the money and have some merchandising articles for sale or free give away. I bet there are further quarters where we get money again, hopefully with prior notification, and then we can work on more. But of now, as I've been working on this issue since August, I don't think it makes sense so work on it some months more. We should come up with a result. And I think, having 1.000 or 2.000 t-shirts are at least a start. I agree, a better marketing concept and some idea on when we have what money available, would be a good idea. I try to work on this as soon as possible - but as of now, let's just start with something. This doesn't mean you can't do your ideas on your own, should you want to do so - of course, everyone here is free to make local marketing activies and bring them to he list. Regarding the international marketing project: I want to get this merchandising stuff done as soon as possible. We definitely could use some merchandising items as free give aways to create brand awareness. Of course, that is not the best marketing idea we've ever had, but it is a start. :-) Looking at all your ideas, I'm convinced that it is time to put up a newer marketing plan. This involves talking to Sun, when we can have what money so we can plan; discussing on the list what to do with it to put up some campaigns; defining target audiences; distributing tasks, etc. But the most important part as of now: Who can help in designing thos merchandise we're about to order? Thanks again Florian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:38:22 +0200, Florian Effenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please add your idea to the Wiki so we have it available for further reference! done. -- Coreteam VN - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds
On Saturday 13 October 2007 22:38, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello there, and sorry for my late response. I have about 100 unread messages as of now, so I'm trying to work through my mailbox. :-) Thanks for this discussion! I'm really glad that we have so many creative minds in here with so many great ideas. You really came up with great ideas we should think and decide about. I ask everyone of you, please add your idea to the Wiki so we have it available for further reference! As written to Graham Lauder on [EMAIL PROTECTED]: However, I think we could discuss over this issue for months, and in the end, we don't have anything, so I'd definitely vote for producing those t-shirts and maybe mugs/mouse pads/bags as soon as possible, so we have used the money and have some merchandising articles for sale or free give away. I bet there are further quarters where we get money again, hopefully with prior notification, and then we can work on more. But of now, as I've been working on this issue since August, I don't think it makes sense so work on it some months more. We should come up with a result. And I think, having 1.000 or 2.000 t-shirts are at least a start. I agree, a better marketing concept and some idea on when we have what money available, would be a good idea. I try to work on this as soon as possible - but as of now, let's just start with something. This doesn't mean you can't do your ideas on your own, should you want to do so - of course, everyone here is free to make local marketing activies and bring them to he list. Regarding the international marketing project: I want to get this merchandising stuff done as soon as possible. We definitely could use some merchandising items as free give aways to create brand awareness. Of course, that is not the best marketing idea we've ever had, but it is a start. :-) Looking at all your ideas, I'm convinced that it is time to put up a newer marketing plan. This involves talking to Sun, when we can have what money so we can plan; discussing on the list what to do with it to put up some campaigns; defining target audiences; distributing tasks, etc. But the most important part as of now: Who can help in designing thos merchandise we're about to order? I'm sorry Florian, but I repeat what I said on the NLC list. FIRST we decide our Demographic. I'm talking about the target market at which we're pitching the campaign. We cannot do designs or decide what sort of merchandise until we have sorted that out. For example: Merchandise aimed at an English speaking University Student market is going to be of entirely different design from merchandise created for Mandarin Speaking Senior Citizens. Lets give ourselves as short a possible time to decide this. What are the targets: People and location Once we know this, we can then design the merchandise to suit Please please please let's get the sequence right Cheers GL Thanks again Florian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Moderator New Zealand www.theingots.org.nz GET DRESSED : GET OOOGEAR Gear for the well dressed OOo Advocate www.ooogear.co.nz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: Marketshare Memes (was Interesting study about price sensitivity of students)
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 18:50 -0700, NoOp wrote: That said, the largest stumbling block to OOo's lack of market share isn't price, file compatibility, or other issues raised in the article. Instead it's the continued lack of a proper support staff and ease of upgrades/updates. Yes, if the components could be downloaded separately in 20 meg each with automatic updates to new versions a lot more people would use it. Key people are aware of it. Unfortunately its a very big job to change things. 0) They don't know it exists or if they do they don't really know how powerful it is and anyway their friend gives them a pirate copy of MS Office. 1) They've used it all of their school lives and it's generally installed already on their computer, 2) the school only supports MS doesn't want to deal with OOo because MS is what their techs know, Which is why you need a strategy based on education professional knowledge, not selling head to head against MS. Make it part of the curriculum and give educational reasons to use the software that rumps the mechanistic use of one application. http://theingots.org/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?inpopup=trueid=136 http://theingots.org/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?inpopup=trueid=33 3) when they do use OOo there is no formal tech support (even with StarOffice this is a problem) and the website is mind-boggling in trying to find help even for experienced users. Hence they may resort to the users mail list who's responses are from other users a few steady user volunteers like myself, Quite a few of us have spent time supporting the users list. Its a valuable job but there are also many other ways of deploying time and best matching it to expertise. 4) they simply don't have time, nor wish to deal with alternatives. They may try it once or twice, but the bottom line is if an 18-21 year old in college is working on something, they simply don't want to deal with an alternative, be it free or otherwise. They want something that is the norm, that their school professors require, that they don't have to send an email to a users mail list to get help if the install craps out, and just works. After all, many of them were sent off to college with a new laptop in the last minute 'send the kid to school' rush, and in most cases that laptop included MS Office. If not they can get the student version for about $59 USD from MS. So why bother? *So why bother?* Perhaps OOo should revive the education library projects that seem to have been dropped by the wayside. Anyone here visited the Libraries and Public Administrations Project lately? I used to lead the education project. To revive it you need people with the expertise and contacts in those worlds willing to put time and effort into it. They are hardly likely to do that when instead of helping them, obstacles and discouragement are the reward. http://marketing.openoffice.org/pa/ or how about: http://marketing.openoffice.org/education/schools/ or http://marketing.openoffice.org/education/schools/univs/index.html how about: http://education.openoffice.org/ Can anyone make sense of any of those web pages (other than they are basically stale and serve no purpose any longer?)? Ever thought about why? Hint: Read your post that implies those that made some effort to try and get better effect from the resources being made available are a bunch of nutters. Here, try this: http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=libraries If OOo want to fix the Marketshare issue mentioned in the article, then OOo marketing need to forgo the silly 'give a OOo t-shirt to a poor kid' thought and go back into mainstream library and education markets. If kids grow up with OOo in the classroom they *will* use it into their college years. So what do *you* suggest should be done? I have spent 4 years setting up a UK government accredited awarding body with open systems qualifications and a strategy to get them into schools around the world which appears to be working. Its not a quick fix, its a 10 year strategy. The company is now sustainable from its income with projects in South Africa funded by Shuttleworth and others with partners across Europe. We will produce an ever-increasing range of free learning resources from this income and extend the valued qualifications backed by the British Government (and other governments in due course) to sustain development. All this despite rather than because of people like you telling me I'm some sort of nutter or worse. Ironically, Sun with StarOffice has made *no* dent in the education/library markets despite the fact that SO is basically *free* to students and educational institutions. Mainly because Sun are just as clueless about marketing to schools as most others who haven't been in that culture professionally. Its specialist stuff, just as writing code for OOo is specialist stuff. I probably no more about writing code
Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds
Hi Graham, I currently face similar discussions on our Germanophone mailing lists. ;-) I'm sorry Florian, but I repeat what I said on the NLC list. FIRST we decide our Demographic. Well, as said in my last message: Basically, you are right. For mid and long term we definitely should prepare things better, no doubt. As we grow, we need more and more preparation for bigger campaigns. But we've been struggling with this merchandising issue since August, and I just would like to get things done and produce some nice merchandising materials. No big campaign, just some merchandise, and I doubt we need demographical statistics for that, not now. Of course, for further actions, you are right - but this is just about a few t-shirts... Florin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds
On Sunday 14 October 2007 01:59, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Graham, I currently face similar discussions on our Germanophone mailing lists. ;-) I'm sorry Florian, but I repeat what I said on the NLC list. FIRST we decide our Demographic. Well, as said in my last message: Basically, you are right. For mid and long term we definitely should prepare things better, no doubt. As we grow, we need more and more preparation for bigger campaigns. But we've been struggling with this merchandising issue since August, and I just would like to get things done and produce some nice merchandising materials. No big campaign, just some merchandise, and I doubt we need demographical statistics for that, not now. Of course, for further actions, you are right - but this is just about a few t-shirts... Florin I'm mainly concerned about logistics. Once we've got this merchandise, what are we going to with it. Who's going to pay for shipping to wherever it goes. Where's it going to get stored in the meantime. How is the decision to distribute and to whom, going to be made. These are all critical elements that need deciding. It's not just some merchandise If that was the case and we were not going for a specific campaign, then I would be going for a number of sets of really good display rigs for trade shows and the like. Booth banners, Table covers, CD display racks all packed in well designed roadcases so they could be shipped all over. Small time stuff people can do local, good professional looking Show display rigs are difficult. It would be a much more sensible way to use the money rather than just spend it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Moderator New Zealand www.theingots.org.nz GET DRESSED : GET OOOGEAR Gear for the well dressed OOo Advocate www.ooogear.co.nz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
