Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 19:56 -0400, Don Parris wrote: [snip] > In my book, "Penguin in the Pew" (a.k.a., PitP), I have a table > demonstrating that the amount of productivity lost (on average), due > to > adjusting to the differences between Msft Office and OpenOffice.org, > is > really not all that great, and is frequently less than perceived. > The > point was that, even given the adjustment period of a couple of > weeks, > not all productivity is lost. Many scenarios that suggest it is more > costly to retrain for the new office suite seem to assume a 100% loss > in > productivity. This is absolutely not true. > [snip] I am in the middle of a series of roadshows in my day job. The exhibitors all prepared rolling presentations in Powerpoint / NT. The laptops hired for the events all ran XP. Guess what? all the presentations had differences in how they ran. Every enforced upgrade from Microsoft has compatibility issues and is an opportunity for us. John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
swhiser wrote: Ian Lynch wrote: Any responses to arguments set forth by Microsoft, et. al., should avoid the emotional dialogue, and focus on the technical merits of Mass' decision. Thank you Don and Ian for your comments... Technical or economic merits. While MS might say it will cost MA to retrain staff, this is a one off short term investment for a long term gain. As we know, the commitment to training is not nearly as great as others make it (which explains the slowness at many of our OOo training business [Ian needs not confirm]). MA is already competent with OOo and has full view of the scope of the training and adjustment process, and if you asked them off the record they would grin and be silent. The case study about their migration will be a Tipping Point. In my book, "Penguin in the Pew" (a.k.a., PitP), I have a table demonstrating that the amount of productivity lost (on average), due to adjusting to the differences between Msft Office and OpenOffice.org, is really not all that great, and is frequently less than perceived. The point was that, even given the adjustment period of a couple of weeks, not all productivity is lost. Many scenarios that suggest it is more costly to retrain for the new office suite seem to assume a 100% loss in productivity. This is absolutely not true. Companies and governments often spend money up front to invest in the future so this is not different or unusual. MS have also said that they will respond to customer demand so here is the opportunity to show they mean it. They spend a lot on market research so asking large corporate and government customers if they would prefer MS to standardise on ODF would be pretty easy to do. They're done. Over. The FUD will be loud and it (we) will embarass them, because people get this now. I agree here. A short-term investment with an eye towards a long-term gain is definitely a smart move. Don - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
Ian Lynch wrote: On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 11:22 -0400, swhiser wrote: The FUD will be loud and it (we) will embarass them, because people get this now. Question: Would it be feasible to set up a petition of MS customers who would like them to adopt ODF as the default in the next version of office? IMHO it would be better just to let OOo gain share and then let MS adopt it as they read the tea-leaves of the market. -Sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 11:47 -0400, Steven Shelton wrote: > >Question: Would it be feasible to set up a petition of MS customers who > >would like them to adopt ODF as the default in the next version of > >office? > > > > > > > Heck, I don't think it even needs to be the default, although that would > be nice. The biggest objection I come across is "I have to send my files > to other people." If Office opened OD files--even as a filter and not a > default--it would address a big chunk of the resistance to using OOo. We could easily get people to register their company name on a web site to say they were in favour. If a lot of people did this it woould put a lot of pressure on MS to do what their customers are asking them to do. Like the press release. Maybe needs to be cut down a bit. Usually shorter is better. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMSL - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
Ian Lynch wrote: On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 11:22 -0400, swhiser wrote: The FUD will be loud and it (we) will embarass them, because people get this now. Question: Would it be feasible to set up a petition of MS customers who would like them to adopt ODF as the default in the next version of office? Heck, I don't think it even needs to be the default, although that would be nice. The biggest objection I come across is "I have to send my files to other people." If Office opened OD files--even as a filter and not a default--it would address a big chunk of the resistance to using OOo. -- Steven Shelton Twilight Media & Design www.TwilightMD.com www.GLOAMING.us -=-=-=-=-=- Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. -=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
Ian Lynch wrote: Any responses to arguments set forth by Microsoft, et. al., should avoid the emotional dialogue, and focus on the technical merits of Mass' decision. Technical or economic merits. While MS might say it will cost MA to retrain staff, this is a one off short term investment for a long term gain. Companies and governments often spend money up front to invest in the future so this is not different or unusual. MS have also said that they will respond to customer demand so here is the opportunity to show they mean it. They spend a lot on market research so asking large corporate and government customers if they would prefer MS to standardise on ODF would be pretty easy to do. Here's the lead I would use for this story as a press release: *** MASS. TAXPAYERS MAY SAVE MONEY WITH NEW OPEN STANDARDS A decision by the state to adopt an open standard format for state workers who use office software could save the state millions of dollars in software costs according to an expert on the issue. In a statement this week, the state announced that it was adopting the "OpenDocument" format as the standard to be used by the state's word processing documents, spreadsheet, drawing, and presentation application. All agencies are expected to migrate by January 1, 2007. "OpenDocument is an open format designed so that any software developer can support it," said EDDIE EXPERT [need to find someone willing to put their name to it]. "This means that a person in one company can save the document using an office suite, and they can send it to someone at a different company using a compeltely different piece of software, and it will open looking exactly the same. This is especially important because a lot of organizations are currently stuck using one set of tools simply because they need to maintain compatibility with their customers or vendors when a more desirable or less expensive set might actually be a better fit for them." The decision is likely to lower costs for the state, EXPERT said, because of increased competition. "The state will no longer have to use Microsoft products exclusively to access its files, and those who interact with state agencies--vendors, attorneys, and even other governments--will be able to choose from a whole range of applications," he said. "They will be able to use products from other companies, or even freely downloadable open source products like OpenOffice.org, instead. This means that the state and everyone who interacts with it will suddenly have many more options, and I would expect this increased competition to dramatically reduce costs to the state. It could amount to several millions of dollars in savings per year." The decision does not necessarily mean that the state will no longer purchase Microsoft products, and EXPERT cautioned that the decision should not be seen as an anti-Microsoft move. "This is about greater flexibility, and not about an attempt to shut out a specific vendor," EXPERT said. "Microsoft could very easily be a player by simply choosing to support the OpenDocument format in future editions of Office. Of course, if the company chooses not to do so, it will send a strong message that it no longer wishes to do business with the state, which I think would be a big mistake for the company." *** This is something that mainstream people (not just us "geek" types) can appreciate. The state is really saving a lot of money here. Joe Taxpayer likes that a lot. People could (*gulp*) start to care! -- Steven Shelton Twilight Media & Design www.TwilightMD.com www.GLOAMING.us -=-=-=-=-=- Money is the root of all evil. Send $20 for more information. -=-=-=-=-=- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 11:22 -0400, swhiser wrote: > The FUD will be loud and it (we) will embarass them, because people get > this now. Question: Would it be feasible to set up a petition of MS customers who would like them to adopt ODF as the default in the next version of office? -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMSL - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
Ian Lynch wrote: Any responses to arguments set forth by Microsoft, et. al., should avoid the emotional dialogue, and focus on the technical merits of Mass' decision. Thank you Don and Ian for your comments... Technical or economic merits. While MS might say it will cost MA to retrain staff, this is a one off short term investment for a long term gain. As we know, the commitment to training is not nearly as great as others make it (which explains the slowness at many of our OOo training business [Ian needs not confirm]). MA is already competent with OOo and has full view of the scope of the training and adjustment process, and if you asked them off the record they would grin and be silent. The case study about their migration will be a Tipping Point. Companies and governments often spend money up front to invest in the future so this is not different or unusual. MS have also said that they will respond to customer demand so here is the opportunity to show they mean it. They spend a lot on market research so asking large corporate and government customers if they would prefer MS to standardise on ODF would be pretty easy to do. They're done. Over. The FUD will be loud and it (we) will embarass them, because people get this now. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
> Any responses to arguments set forth by > Microsoft, et. al., should avoid the emotional dialogue, and focus on > the technical merits of Mass' decision. Technical or economic merits. While MS might say it will cost MA to retrain staff, this is a one off short term investment for a long term gain. Companies and governments often spend money up front to invest in the future so this is not different or unusual. MS have also said that they will respond to customer demand so here is the opportunity to show they mean it. They spend a lot on market research so asking large corporate and government customers if they would prefer MS to standardise on ODF would be pretty easy to do. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMSL - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: what do you think of Massachusetts' proposal to adopt OpenDocument format
swhiser wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Microsoft is steaming Paula Rooney The press is playing it only through the Microsoft frame...this misses the point almost entirely. There seems to be no escaping that people see Technology through their understanding of a) Microsoft as the company behind the desktop system they have used; and b) one of the most financially successful businesses in modern times. Reality is that they are no longer terribly important because the nature of IT systems has changed for good. Here's the MassGove document; it is only 20 pages; I DO suggest, implore, that you read it as this story will be important for a long time and that would be good for you: http://www.mass.gov/Aitd/docs/policies_standards/etrm3dot5/ETRM_v3dot5draft_information.pdf What is impressive about the MassGov document declaring a policy for migrating to OpenDocument is two things: 1) they are not firing Microsoft but stating their standard specification for the file formats of documents they wish to produce and accept within the context of the business of the Commonwealth; this means that Microsoft can keep this account if its Office suite starts to use OpenDocument as its default file format. Whether they will do so is another question, but the key point to keep in the frame for readers is that if Microsoft loses the Commonwealth of Massachusetts as a paying customer of its Office software then it would be **by Microsoft's own choice.** 2) the declaration for the OpenDocument file format falls within a short document which is like an executive summary laying out the State CIO's vision for a Services Oriented Architecture of the future based around the center-piece of the XML and its related markup standards. Office documents are only a small part of the aspect of a State government infrastructure that's impacted by this elegant, sweeping vision. What the State CIO is doing is he's leading the conversation down to the appropriate fundamental level about data granularity, reuse, interoperability, manageability, modularity, flexibility, et cetera-bility. Microsoft (the story of the impact on its business) is not that important in the wider context of the opportunity to embrace XML throughout a large organization's IT infrastructure; however that company must either go away or embrace OpenDocument (an open XML specification) for the State to successfully implement its vision for data. Paula- This is the moment for which I have been building since the day I joined OpenOffice.org in October, 2001. Our next job is to help the 50 other State CIO's understand the intelligence behind the Massachusetts vision and help them each implement the vision. It could take 5 years. -Sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not nearly so elegant as you, but I have long stated that Microsoft is in danger of locking itself out of the marketplace while trying to lock in their customers. In my observations over the last two years, I have drawn the conclusion that any company that does not adapt to the new (software) economy - libre licenses, open standards, etc. - will become extinct, or at least nearly so. I continue to believe that to be the case. I have also realized, since I discovered the OASIS process for OpenDocument (through this list), that once approved, governments would begin moving to adopt it. As they do, companies will need to move to adopt the new standard. Any responses to arguments set forth by Microsoft, et. al., should avoid the emotional dialogue, and focus on the technical merits of Mass' decision. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
