Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Tamás Cservenák]

+1 to Jorge.

As I understand it, this is the "minimal version supported" (prerequisite)
we talk about here. But imo 3.x plugins should compile against lastest 3.x
Maven.

T

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 00:35 Jorge Solórzano  wrote:

> I know that a build tool is different from a framework, but we are again
> missing the point here, is not about framework vs build tools, the point is
> that newer projects already require new Java versions, and if legacy
> projects require using an old Java version, then those projects will still
> be using Maven 3.x anyway and that is perfectly fine. What should be the
> threshold to move to a newer Java version? (I'm talking about using Java 11
> on Maven 4.0, not on 3.x).
>
> Sorry I didn't want to hijack this thread for the Java version discussion,
> yet I wish to know what is the benefit of "supporting" plugins on older
> versions of Maven, I'm asking as a user since I'm not a Maven core
> developer, PMC,r committer, just an occasional contributor, and again, I
> might be missing something, but what is the benefit of updating plugins on
> a project and using an older version of Maven? As a user is weird to me
> that Maven versions prior 3.8.x are EOL, yet plugins provide Maven API
> compatibility down to 3.2.5.
>
> It seems that is indeed a new challenge to require Maven 3.6.3 as minimal
> for core plugins ;)
>
> Regards and Happy New Year!
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 6:30 PM Michael Osipov 
> wrote:
>
> > Am 2023-12-30 um 16:43 schrieb Jorge Solórzano:
> > > I'm a bit confused here, why would anyone update Maven plugins in a
> > project
> > > and NOT update Maven Core? Older versions of Maven are EOL, is expected
> > > that Maven Core is backward-compatible on minor releases so updating
> > Maven
> > > Core should be straightforward. I might be missing something but I
> don't
> > > see a scenario where someone updates plugins but does not update Maven
> > > itself, I would expect the opposite, it should be more common to update
> > > Maven core than plugins (although that is just my perception).
> > >
> > > The question remains: Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.3 as a
> > minimum
> > > in plugins? don't get me wrong, I don't mind if we use 3.5.4 instead of
> > > 3.6.3 if the maintenance/support is the same, but knowing that CI uses
> > > Maven 3.6.3 and newer, and without knowing why plugins should be
> > supported
> > > on 3.5.4, my vote will go to use 3.6.3.
> > >
> > > This discussion reminds me of the minimum required Java version, there
> > was
> > > even an informal poll
> > >  with more
> > than
> > > 80% asking for newer Java releases, and I would love to see Maven 4.0
> > > require at least Java 11, but here we are, one year later and still on
> > Java
> > > 8 because some prefer to be working with Java 7 or even Java 6. The
> > > ecosystem is moving forward, SpringBoot, Quarkus, Jakarta EE, and some
> > > dependencies are slowly moving to at least Java 11, if a project
> requires
> > > Java 8 (for whatever reason), then it will remain on Maven 3.x, moving
> to
> > > Java 11 is conservative enough for Maven 4.0.
> >
> > You are confusing a low-level tool which should be accessible to
> > everyone compared to a specific framework. Regarding Spring Boot: I
> > consider that a total dick move dropping javax namespace support for a
> > huge user base. Regardless of the Java version.
> >
> > M
> >
> >
>

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Jorge Solórzano]

I know that a build tool is different from a framework, but we are again
missing the point here, is not about framework vs build tools, the point is
that newer projects already require new Java versions, and if legacy
projects require using an old Java version, then those projects will still
be using Maven 3.x anyway and that is perfectly fine. What should be the
threshold to move to a newer Java version? (I'm talking about using Java 11
on Maven 4.0, not on 3.x).

Sorry I didn't want to hijack this thread for the Java version discussion,
yet I wish to know what is the benefit of "supporting" plugins on older
versions of Maven, I'm asking as a user since I'm not a Maven core
developer, PMC,r committer, just an occasional contributor, and again, I
might be missing something, but what is the benefit of updating plugins on
a project and using an older version of Maven? As a user is weird to me
that Maven versions prior 3.8.x are EOL, yet plugins provide Maven API
compatibility down to 3.2.5.

It seems that is indeed a new challenge to require Maven 3.6.3 as minimal
for core plugins ;)

Regards and Happy New Year!


On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 6:30 PM Michael Osipov  wrote:

> Am 2023-12-30 um 16:43 schrieb Jorge Solórzano:
> > I'm a bit confused here, why would anyone update Maven plugins in a
> project
> > and NOT update Maven Core? Older versions of Maven are EOL, is expected
> > that Maven Core is backward-compatible on minor releases so updating
> Maven
> > Core should be straightforward. I might be missing something but I don't
> > see a scenario where someone updates plugins but does not update Maven
> > itself, I would expect the opposite, it should be more common to update
> > Maven core than plugins (although that is just my perception).
> >
> > The question remains: Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.3 as a
> minimum
> > in plugins? don't get me wrong, I don't mind if we use 3.5.4 instead of
> > 3.6.3 if the maintenance/support is the same, but knowing that CI uses
> > Maven 3.6.3 and newer, and without knowing why plugins should be
> supported
> > on 3.5.4, my vote will go to use 3.6.3.
> >
> > This discussion reminds me of the minimum required Java version, there
> was
> > even an informal poll
> >  with more
> than
> > 80% asking for newer Java releases, and I would love to see Maven 4.0
> > require at least Java 11, but here we are, one year later and still on
> Java
> > 8 because some prefer to be working with Java 7 or even Java 6. The
> > ecosystem is moving forward, SpringBoot, Quarkus, Jakarta EE, and some
> > dependencies are slowly moving to at least Java 11, if a project requires
> > Java 8 (for whatever reason), then it will remain on Maven 3.x, moving to
> > Java 11 is conservative enough for Maven 4.0.
>
> You are confusing a low-level tool which should be accessible to
> everyone compared to a specific framework. Regarding Spring Boot: I
> consider that a total dick move dropping javax namespace support for a
> huge user base. Regardless of the Java version.
>
> M
>
>

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Michael Osipov]

Am 2023-12-30 um 16:43 schrieb Jorge Solórzano:

I'm a bit confused here, why would anyone update Maven plugins in a project
and NOT update Maven Core? Older versions of Maven are EOL, is expected
that Maven Core is backward-compatible on minor releases so updating Maven
Core should be straightforward. I might be missing something but I don't
see a scenario where someone updates plugins but does not update Maven
itself, I would expect the opposite, it should be more common to update
Maven core than plugins (although that is just my perception).

The question remains: Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.3 as a minimum
in plugins? don't get me wrong, I don't mind if we use 3.5.4 instead of
3.6.3 if the maintenance/support is the same, but knowing that CI uses
Maven 3.6.3 and newer, and without knowing why plugins should be supported
on 3.5.4, my vote will go to use 3.6.3.

This discussion reminds me of the minimum required Java version, there was
even an informal poll
 with more than
80% asking for newer Java releases, and I would love to see Maven 4.0
require at least Java 11, but here we are, one year later and still on Java
8 because some prefer to be working with Java 7 or even Java 6. The
ecosystem is moving forward, SpringBoot, Quarkus, Jakarta EE, and some
dependencies are slowly moving to at least Java 11, if a project requires
Java 8 (for whatever reason), then it will remain on Maven 3.x, moving to
Java 11 is conservative enough for Maven 4.0.


You are confusing a low-level tool which should be accessible to 
everyone compared to a specific framework. Regarding Spring Boot: I 
consider that a total dick move dropping javax namespace support for a 
huge user base. Regardless of the Java version.


M

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Gary Gregory]

FWIW, at work, we just went from Java 8 to 17, and we are a pretty
conservative organization.

Gary

On Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 10:44 AM Jorge Solórzano  wrote:

> I'm a bit confused here, why would anyone update Maven plugins in a project
> and NOT update Maven Core? Older versions of Maven are EOL, is expected
> that Maven Core is backward-compatible on minor releases so updating Maven
> Core should be straightforward. I might be missing something but I don't
> see a scenario where someone updates plugins but does not update Maven
> itself, I would expect the opposite, it should be more common to update
> Maven core than plugins (although that is just my perception).
>
> The question remains: Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.3 as a minimum
> in plugins? don't get me wrong, I don't mind if we use 3.5.4 instead of
> 3.6.3 if the maintenance/support is the same, but knowing that CI uses
> Maven 3.6.3 and newer, and without knowing why plugins should be supported
> on 3.5.4, my vote will go to use 3.6.3.
>
> This discussion reminds me of the minimum required Java version, there was
> even an informal poll
>  with more than
> 80% asking for newer Java releases, and I would love to see Maven 4.0
> require at least Java 11, but here we are, one year later and still on Java
> 8 because some prefer to be working with Java 7 or even Java 6. The
> ecosystem is moving forward, SpringBoot, Quarkus, Jakarta EE, and some
> dependencies are slowly moving to at least Java 11, if a project requires
> Java 8 (for whatever reason), then it will remain on Maven 3.x, moving to
> Java 11 is conservative enough for Maven 4.0.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:54 PM Michael Osipov 
> wrote:
>
> > Am 2023-12-30 um 11:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > > sob., 30 gru 2023 o 10:43 Michael Osipov 
> > napisał(a):
> > >
> > >> Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > >>> pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov 
> > >> napisał(a):
> > >>>
> >  Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> > >
> > > But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven
> > Plugins
> > >> as
> > > 3.2.5
> > >
> > > I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> > >
> > > Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> > > - for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> > > - many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> > > - we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin,
> > like
> > > in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can
> > cleanup
> > > such code
> > > - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven
> > >> version
> >  in
> > > plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> > > - and we should go forward
> > >
> > > [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > > [2]
> > >
> > 
> > >>
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> > >
> > 
> >  I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
> >  should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
> >  org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't
> confuse
> >  API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
> >  believe that we have made this clear more than once.
> > 
> >  Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider
> crucial
> >  which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
> > 
> > 
> > >>> I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5
> > >>>
> > >>> I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4,
> > >> but I
> > >>> see in mentioned code
> > >>>
> > >>>// clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
> > >>>mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();
> > >>
> > >> This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real
> > >> improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1:
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327
> > >>
> > >>> So my question is:
> > >>>
> > >>> Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?
> > >>
> > >> If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I
> > >> will happily accept it.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > There is https://github.com/apache/maven-help-plugin/pull/45
> >
> > I am aware of this one, but m-help-p isn't a core plugin, nor bound to a
> > lifecycle phase. For me, this is out of the ordinary.
> >
> > Let's make a compromise: I'd expect that you provide a list of all
> > plugins you consider core ones and this will be announced on dev@ that
> > in X weeks we will switch. Before 

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Jorge Solórzano]

I'm a bit confused here, why would anyone update Maven plugins in a project
and NOT update Maven Core? Older versions of Maven are EOL, is expected
that Maven Core is backward-compatible on minor releases so updating Maven
Core should be straightforward. I might be missing something but I don't
see a scenario where someone updates plugins but does not update Maven
itself, I would expect the opposite, it should be more common to update
Maven core than plugins (although that is just my perception).

The question remains: Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.3 as a minimum
in plugins? don't get me wrong, I don't mind if we use 3.5.4 instead of
3.6.3 if the maintenance/support is the same, but knowing that CI uses
Maven 3.6.3 and newer, and without knowing why plugins should be supported
on 3.5.4, my vote will go to use 3.6.3.

This discussion reminds me of the minimum required Java version, there was
even an informal poll
 with more than
80% asking for newer Java releases, and I would love to see Maven 4.0
require at least Java 11, but here we are, one year later and still on Java
8 because some prefer to be working with Java 7 or even Java 6. The
ecosystem is moving forward, SpringBoot, Quarkus, Jakarta EE, and some
dependencies are slowly moving to at least Java 11, if a project requires
Java 8 (for whatever reason), then it will remain on Maven 3.x, moving to
Java 11 is conservative enough for Maven 4.0.

Regards.


On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:54 PM Michael Osipov  wrote:

> Am 2023-12-30 um 11:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > sob., 30 gru 2023 o 10:43 Michael Osipov 
> napisał(a):
> >
> >> Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> >>> pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov 
> >> napisał(a):
> >>>
>  Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> >
> > But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven
> Plugins
> >> as
> > 3.2.5
> >
> > I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> >
> > Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> > - for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> > - many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> > - we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin,
> like
> > in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can
> cleanup
> > such code
> > - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven
> >> version
>  in
> > plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> > - and we should go forward
> >
> > [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > [2]
> >
> 
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> >
> 
>  I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
>  should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
>  org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
>  API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
>  believe that we have made this clear more than once.
> 
>  Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
>  which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
> 
> 
> >>> I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5
> >>>
> >>> I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4,
> >> but I
> >>> see in mentioned code
> >>>
> >>>// clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
> >>>mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();
> >>
> >> This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real
> >> improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1:
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327
> >>
> >>> So my question is:
> >>>
> >>> Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?
> >>
> >> If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I
> >> will happily accept it.
> >>
> >>
> > There is https://github.com/apache/maven-help-plugin/pull/45
>
> I am aware of this one, but m-help-p isn't a core plugin, nor bound to a
> lifecycle phase. For me, this is out of the ordinary.
>
> Let's make a compromise: I'd expect that you provide a list of all
> plugins you consider core ones and this will be announced on dev@ that
> in X weeks we will switch. Before the switch if there are open releases
> they should be released and the switch will be done with a minor version
> bump.
> With that people can raise voice/prepare for the change.
>
> M
>

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Michael Osipov]

Am 2023-12-30 um 11:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:

sob., 30 gru 2023 o 10:43 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):


Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:

pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov 

napisał(a):



Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:

Hi,

Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]

But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven Plugins

as

3.2.5

I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3

Reasonable reasons: (for me)
- for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
- many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
- we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin, like
in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can cleanup
such code
- I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven

version

in

plugins - so we should be a honest for users
- and we should go forward

[1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
[2]




https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java




I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
believe that we have made this clear more than once.

Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?



I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5

I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4,

but I

see in mentioned code

   // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
   mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();


This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real
improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1:

https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327


So my question is:

Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?


If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I
will happily accept it.



There is https://github.com/apache/maven-help-plugin/pull/45


I am aware of this one, but m-help-p isn't a core plugin, nor bound to a 
lifecycle phase. For me, this is out of the ordinary.


Let's make a compromise: I'd expect that you provide a list of all 
plugins you consider core ones and this will be announced on dev@ that 
in X weeks we will switch. Before the switch if there are open releases 
they should be released and the switch will be done with a minor version 
bump.

With that people can raise voice/prepare for the change.

M

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Sylwester Lachiewicz]

+1
Sylwester

sob., 30 gru 2023 o 11:43 Slawomir Jaranowski 
napisał(a):

> sob., 30 gru 2023 o 10:43 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):
>
> > Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > > pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov 
> > napisał(a):
> > >
> > >> Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> > >>>
> > >>> But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven
> Plugins
> > as
> > >>> 3.2.5
> > >>>
> > >>> I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> > >>>
> > >>> Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> > >>>- for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> > >>>- many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> > >>>- we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin,
> like
> > >>> in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can
> cleanup
> > >>> such code
> > >>> - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven
> > version
> > >> in
> > >>> plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> > >>> - and we should go forward
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > >>> [2]
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
> > >> should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
> > >> org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
> > >> API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
> > >> believe that we have made this clear more than once.
> > >>
> > >> Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
> > >> which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
> > >>
> > >>
> > > I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5
> > >
> > > I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4,
> > but I
> > > see in mentioned code
> > >
> > >   // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
> > >   mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();
> >
> > This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real
> > improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327
> >
> > > So my question is:
> > >
> > > Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?
> >
> > If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I
> > will happily accept it.
> >
> >
> There is https://github.com/apache/maven-help-plugin/pull/45
>
>
> > Michael
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Sławomir Jaranowski
>

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Slawomir Jaranowski]

sob., 30 gru 2023 o 10:43 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):

> Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov 
> napisał(a):
> >
> >> Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> >>>
> >>> But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven Plugins
> as
> >>> 3.2.5
> >>>
> >>> I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> >>>
> >>> Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> >>>- for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> >>>- many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> >>>- we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin, like
> >>> in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can cleanup
> >>> such code
> >>> - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven
> version
> >> in
> >>> plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> >>> - and we should go forward
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> >>> [2]
> >>>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> >>>
> >>
> >> I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
> >> should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
> >> org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
> >> API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
> >> believe that we have made this clear more than once.
> >>
> >> Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
> >> which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
> >>
> >>
> > I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5
> >
> > I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4,
> but I
> > see in mentioned code
> >
> >   // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
> >   mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();
>
> This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real
> improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1:
>
> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327
>
> > So my question is:
> >
> > Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?
>
> If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I
> will happily accept it.
>
>
There is https://github.com/apache/maven-help-plugin/pull/45


> Michael
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>


-- 
Sławomir Jaranowski

Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Michael Osipov]

Am 2023-12-30 um 09:24 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:

pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):


Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:

Hi,

Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]

But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven Plugins as
3.2.5

I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3

Reasonable reasons: (for me)
   - for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
   - many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
   - we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin, like
in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can cleanup
such code
- I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven version

in

plugins - so we should be a honest for users
- and we should go forward

[1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
[2]


https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java




I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
believe that we have made this clear more than once.

Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?



I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5

I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4, but I
see in mentioned code

  // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
  mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();


This one is moot and incorrect. I will change the comment. The real 
improvement has been done by Tamás in 4.0.0-alpha-1: 
https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/cc51006f2973356a1046ae0757325d5e9be75327



So my question is:

Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?


If you can provide some real examples where 3.6.x is better/easier I 
will happily accept it.


Michael

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Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Olivier Lamy]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 18:24, Slawomir Jaranowski
 wrote:
>
> pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):
>
> > Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> > >
> > > But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven Plugins as
> > > 3.2.5
> > >
> > > I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> > >
> > > Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> > >   - for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> > >   - many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> > >   - we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin, like
> > > in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can cleanup
> > > such code
> > > - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven version
> > in
> > > plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> > > - and we should go forward
> > >
> > > [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > > [2]
> > >
> > https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> > >
> >
> > I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
> > should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
> > org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
> > API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
> > believe that we have made this clear more than once.
> >
> > Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
> > which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
> >
> >
> I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5
>
> I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4, but I
> see in mentioned code
>
>  // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
>  mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();
>
> So my question is:
>
> Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?
>

Especially as we do not maintain anymore core 3.5.4 neither 3.6,4 see
https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
we could simply align with core versions we still marked as
maintained, and that would make our lives easier.
this doesn't mean we have to migrate everything, but at least this
could  be a rule




>
> M
> >
> > [1]
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Maven+Ecosystem+Cleanup
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> Sławomir Jaranowski

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Re: New year - new challenge - required Maven 3.6.3 as minimal for core Maven Plugins

[Slawomir Jaranowski]

pt., 29 gru 2023 o 18:40 Michael Osipov  napisał(a):

> Am 2023-12-29 um 14:42 schrieb Slawomir Jaranowski:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Last year we mark all Maven versions 3.6.x and older as EOL [1]
> >
> > But we still try to support minimal API version for Core Maven Plugins as
> > 3.2.5
> >
> > I would like to  propose to sich it for at least to 3.6.3
> >
> > Reasonable reasons: (for me)
> >   - for standard CI build we use Maven 3.6.3 and newer
> >   - many of external plugins, like MojoHaus are switched to 3.6.3
> >   - we have a hacks in code to try support old version in plugin, like
> > in: EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder in plugin-tools [2], we can cleanup
> > such code
> > - I don't believe to someone want to do more fixes for EOL Maven version
> in
> > plugins - so we should be a honest for users
> > - and we should go forward
> >
> > [1] https://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html
> > [2]
> >
> https://github.com/apache/maven-plugin-tools/blob/master/maven-plugin-report-plugin/src/main/java/org/apache/maven/plugins/plugin/descriptor/EnhancedPluginDescriptorBuilder.java
> >
>
> I remember that we had a discussion that the next base/API version
> should be 3.5.4 because it is the first version using
> org.apache.maven.resolver:maven-resolver-api [1]. Please don't confuse
> API compat with maintenance/support for a specific Maven version. I
> believe that we have made this clear more than once.
>
> Is thre anything specific fixed in 3.6.3 behavior you consider crucial
> which makes maintenance easier than with 3.5.4?
>
>
I remember the discussion ... and next year we are still on 3.2.5

I can not a list what was exactly improved in 3.6.3 against to 3.5.4, but I
see in mentioned code

 // clear() is required for maven < 3.6.2
 mojoDescriptor.getParameters().clear();

So my question is:

Why should we use 3.5.4 instead of 3.6.4 as minimum in plugins?


M
>
> [1]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Maven+Ecosystem+Cleanup
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Sławomir Jaranowski