date:20131217

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> > We have posted Installation Instructions for OpenOffice for some years.
> >
> > However, some users seem to still have issues with the file types that
> AOO
> > will assign to itself after installation despite the fact that users are
> > given the opportunity to change this. Please see:
> >
> > http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#fileassoc
> >
> > We could use some help with alternate wording or presentation of this
> > topic. We welcome your suggestions. Thanks.
> >
>
> Presumably the user who had the problem (and reported it to the private
> list):
>
> 1) Did not read the install instructions
>
> 2) Did not pay attention to the install wizard panel where associations
> were set
>
> 3) Perhaps is not familiar with what file associations are and that
> they can be changed by applications or by the user.
>
> Looking at Google Analytics it looks like the
> /download/common/instructions.html page is viewed around 700 times per
> day.  Since we have around 170K downloads per day, it is clear that
> very few people consult that page.
>
>
> I wonder this is a topic for a future post-install survey?  Questions like:
>
> Are you aware of the MD5 hashes and detached signatures?  Did you use them?
>
> Are you aware of the install instructions on the website?  Did you read
> them?
>
> Are you aware of the release notes?  Did you read them?
>
> Did you have any install-related questions while installing?
>
> Stuff like that.  Try to figure out what users actually do when
> installing AOO.  We like to think they read all the material we
> create.  But I bet most of them just "click and pray".
>

Yeah, I was  aware of the divide in downloads vs instruction views quite
some time ago. :/  Since I've only installed on Linux and know how to do
that successfully for my needs, it would be nice if we could improve and/or
clarify the experience for other platforms -- but I don't know what they
experience.

"click and pray" is probably very descriptive. Assuming some are not likely
to ever use the Install Instructions, is there anything we can do during
the install process to assist them in NOT getting unexpected results?
That's the crux of the matter.

For instance, can 2) above in your list be modified to make them more aware
of what this means and what will happen? (I don't see anything like this on
Linux install).




>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> -
> > MzK
> >
> > "Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
> >  for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
> >-- James Mason
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: Issues with file associations for some users...

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> We have posted Installation Instructions for OpenOffice for some years.
>
> However, some users seem to still have issues with the file types that AOO
> will assign to itself after installation despite the fact that users are
> given the opportunity to change this. Please see:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#fileassoc
>
> We could use some help with alternate wording or presentation of this
> topic. We welcome your suggestions. Thanks.
>

Presumably the user who had the problem (and reported it to the private list):

1) Did not read the install instructions

2) Did not pay attention to the install wizard panel where associations were set

3) Perhaps is not familiar with what file associations are and that
they can be changed by applications or by the user.

Looking at Google Analytics it looks like the
/download/common/instructions.html page is viewed around 700 times per
day.  Since we have around 170K downloads per day, it is clear that
very few people consult that page.

I wonder this is a topic for a future post-install survey?  Questions like:

Are you aware of the MD5 hashes and detached signatures?  Did you use them?

Are you aware of the install instructions on the website?  Did you read them?

Are you aware of the release notes?  Did you read them?

Did you have any install-related questions while installing?

Stuff like that.  Try to figure out what users actually do when
installing AOO.  We like to think they read all the material we
create.  But I bet most of them just "click and pray".

Regards,

-Rob

>
>
> --
> -
> MzK
>
> "Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
>  for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
>-- James Mason

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Re: Reminder and blog post about FOSDEM 2014 talk submissions

2013-12-17 Thread Andrea Pescetti


Drew Jensen wrote:

Read over the blog, did not see anything to change - would think quickly
making live would be right IMO


Thanks, published at

https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/join_apache_openoffice_at_fosdem

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Issues with file associations for some users...

We have posted Installation Instructions for OpenOffice for some years.

However, some users seem to still have issues with the file types that AOO
will assign to itself after installation despite the fact that users are
given the opportunity to change this. Please see:

http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/instructions.html#fileassoc

We could use some help with alternate wording or presentation of this
topic. We welcome your suggestions. Thanks.



-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: OpenOffice development with Eclipse

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> On 12/17/13 9:58 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> About a week or so ago I tried again to import the OpenOffice source
>> code into Eclipse.  The last time I tried that, a few years ago, this
>> did not work at all.  Our source code was just to big and too complex.
>> This time however, it worked out of the box.  If you do it right :-)
>> The developers of the CDT (the C/C++ Development Tooling) have made
>> great progress in the last years.
>>
>> As this allows newcomers a much easier way to become OpenOffice
>> developers and also can make the work of experienced developers more
>> productive I would like to share how to set up Eclipse for OpenOffice.
>> This process is still a bit rough around the edges. Any help is
>> appreciated.
>>
>> I have started a Wiki page [1] which explains the manual setup. It
>> should work on all platforms but at the moment only Windows is
>> described.  Maybe you can help to fill in missing values for other
>> platforms.  I am working on a few Eclipse plugins to automate this process:
>>
>> - A wizard for setting up an Eclipse workspace.  The prototype has just
>> to be pointed to the (compiled) source code.  It will then collect all
>> the necessary include paths and set the necessary compiler defines so
>> that the indexer can resolve even the platform dependent definitions.
>> This is important because even something as simple as sal_Int16 will not
>> be recognized without the indexer being told about platform specific
>> preprocessor defines.
>>
>> - The idea of CDT about how C/C++ files are built is different from how
>> OpenOffice does it.  Therefore I am developing a short term solution
>> that provides a couple of buttons/menu entries/whatever will be
>> appropriate to build the current module, directory or file and then
>> deploy the new libraries into an installed office.
>>
>>
>> Here are some highlight of what Eclipse and CDT allow us to do:
>>
>> - Easily switch between header and implementation file.
>>
>> - Follow header inclusion (just Ctrl-click on an #include statement and
>> the referenced header file is opened in the editor.
>>
>> - Get information about variables and classes by simply hovering over
>> their names.  A popup box shows you the variable definition or the class
>> implementation.  That is something you have to see to believe it.
>>
>> - Find out from where a function or method is called
>>
>> - Explore the type hierarchy of a class.
>>
>> - Macro expansion.  Hover over a macro use and see the expansion of it,
>> several iterations if necessary. Ever wanted to know how IMPL_LINK is
>> defined?  Just move your mouse pointer over it.
>>
>> - Code assist while typing.  Define a variable, eg.
>>   ::rtl::OUString sText
>>   Then type "sText.", wait a little (default is 500ms) and a box shows
>> you all the available methods of OUString.
>>
>> - An overview at the right side shows you all the functions, methods,
>> includes, macro defines etc, that are made in the currently edited
>> file.  Click on one and jump to the corresponding source code.
>>
>>
>> All of this may sound familiar to Java developers.  But for C++,
>> especially for OpenOffice, I think this is quite remarkable.
>

Yes. this is very impressive.   I thought the code base was too large
for Eclipse, but it sounds like it is fine.

> And to underline what Andre has described above, this is really cool and
> we are sure it will help us a lot.
>
> I watched a video from Bjoern Michaelsen from LO where he presented
> something similar for KDevelop and pointed out what's possible with
> their new complete gbuild system  I didn't understand the relation
> between the build system and the integration and talked with Andre about
> and others about it.
>
> Andre who is quite familiar with Eclipse (I am more a NetBeans guy)
> spend a first hour on experimenting with Eclipse. We didn't knew that
> and after an hour he presented us the first results which were impressive.
>

It will be interesting to see the full experience, with Subversion
integration and especially the refactoring support.  There is also a
Bugzilla plugin, yes?

> I did a similar test on my Mac with the same result and was able to
> compile and debug (old gcc env) in Eclipse. Well I had some problems
> with the new upcoming env (clang, lldb) because there is no lldb tool
> chain for Eclipse yet. But anyway the whole support and the advantage of
> the indexer and the related navigation in the source code is so huge
> that we will definitely continue and follow up on this.
>
> And as Andre pointed out this is and can be fun and even the results
> after a few hours were impressive.
>
> If there are volunteers who have experience in plugin development for
> Eclipse please join and help us to make this even more comfortable.
>

It is probably worth writing up a short blog post explaining the
progress, maybe a screen capture or two, and ask for volunteers there.

Re: OpenOffice development with Eclipse

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

> On 12/17/13 9:58 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > About a week or so ago I tried again to import the OpenOffice source
> > code into Eclipse.  The last time I tried that, a few years ago, this
> > did not work at all.  Our source code was just to big and too complex.
> > This time however, it worked out of the box.  If you do it right :-)
> > The developers of the CDT (the C/C++ Development Tooling) have made
> > great progress in the last years.
> >
> > As this allows newcomers a much easier way to become OpenOffice
> > developers and also can make the work of experienced developers more
> > productive I would like to share how to set up Eclipse for OpenOffice.
> > This process is still a bit rough around the edges. Any help is
> > appreciated.
> >
> > I have started a Wiki page [1] which explains the manual setup. It
> > should work on all platforms but at the moment only Windows is
> > described.  Maybe you can help to fill in missing values for other
> > platforms.  I am working on a few Eclipse plugins to automate this
> process:
> >
> > - A wizard for setting up an Eclipse workspace.  The prototype has just
> > to be pointed to the (compiled) source code.  It will then collect all
> > the necessary include paths and set the necessary compiler defines so
> > that the indexer can resolve even the platform dependent definitions.
> > This is important because even something as simple as sal_Int16 will not
> > be recognized without the indexer being told about platform specific
> > preprocessor defines.
> >
> > - The idea of CDT about how C/C++ files are built is different from how
> > OpenOffice does it.  Therefore I am developing a short term solution
> > that provides a couple of buttons/menu entries/whatever will be
> > appropriate to build the current module, directory or file and then
> > deploy the new libraries into an installed office.
> >
> >
> > Here are some highlight of what Eclipse and CDT allow us to do:
> >
> > - Easily switch between header and implementation file.
> >
> > - Follow header inclusion (just Ctrl-click on an #include statement and
> > the referenced header file is opened in the editor.
> >
> > - Get information about variables and classes by simply hovering over
> > their names.  A popup box shows you the variable definition or the class
> > implementation.  That is something you have to see to believe it.
> >
> > - Find out from where a function or method is called
> >
> > - Explore the type hierarchy of a class.
> >
> > - Macro expansion.  Hover over a macro use and see the expansion of it,
> > several iterations if necessary. Ever wanted to know how IMPL_LINK is
> > defined?  Just move your mouse pointer over it.
> >
> > - Code assist while typing.  Define a variable, eg.
> >   ::rtl::OUString sText
> >   Then type "sText.", wait a little (default is 500ms) and a box shows
> > you all the available methods of OUString.
> >
> > - An overview at the right side shows you all the functions, methods,
> > includes, macro defines etc, that are made in the currently edited
> > file.  Click on one and jump to the corresponding source code.
> >
> >
> > All of this may sound familiar to Java developers.  But for C++,
> > especially for OpenOffice, I think this is quite remarkable.
>

This work is good news for those who like Eclipse that's for sure.  So,
thanks.


>
> And to underline what Andre has described above, this is really cool and
> we are sure it will help us a lot.
>
> I watched a video from Bjoern Michaelsen from LO where he presented
> something similar for KDevelop and pointed out what's possible with
> their new complete gbuild system  I didn't understand the relation
> between the build system and the integration and talked with Andre about
> and others about it.
>
> Andre who is quite familiar with Eclipse (I am more a NetBeans guy)
> spend a first hour on experimenting with Eclipse. We didn't knew that
> and after an hour he presented us the first results which were impressive.
>
> I did a similar test on my Mac with the same result and was able to
> compile and debug (old gcc env) in Eclipse. Well I had some problems
> with the new upcoming env (clang, lldb) because there is no lldb tool
> chain for Eclipse yet. But anyway the whole support and the advantage of
> the indexer and the related navigation in the source code is so huge
> that we will definitely continue and follow up on this.
>
> And as Andre pointed out this is and can be fun and even the results
> after a few hours were impressive.
>
> If there are volunteers who have experience in plugin development for
> Eclipse please join and help us to make this even more comfortable.
>
> OpenOffice developers please try it out and I am sure you will be
> impressed and it will help you a lot to find your way in the OpenOffice
> code jungle. This will hopefully help to attract some new developers in
> the future. gdb debugging should work in Ecl

Re: I think good news from Germany

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:13 PM
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: I think good news from Germany
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Jörg Schmidt
> >  wrote:
> > >> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> > >
> > >> > Let us furthermore covert our claim "Productivity Suite".
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> It sounds like a good, positive article.  Would it be
> > possible to get
> > >> a few sentences, in English, that we could put on our home page?
> > >> Today we have a news article, "Italian region adopts
> > OpenOffice, saves
> > >> 2M Euro" on the right.  We could easily have one that
> > summarizes the
> > >> c't article.  Very brief, only a few sentences.
> > >
> > > At OpenOffice.org we had the slogan:
> > >
> > > Open. For Business.
> > >
> > > and I think that fits here as well.
> > >
> >
> > I got a copy of the article.  It looks like the summation of it, after
> > comparing AOO and LO is:
> >
> > "Thus, the advantages [of LibreOffice] are restricted to smaller
> > modifications.  Fundamental innovations such as the Sidebar have the
> > developers only copied, from OpenOffice.  Because of this it makes no
> > essential difference which of the two packages you use for everyday
> > tasks.  Ultimately the OpenOffice package wins, because its developers
> > seem to add new features only when they are running reliably -  as you
> > would expect from professional developers."
>
> Yes.
>
>
> I think there are two other aspects in the article and which are:
>
> (a)
> the unsatisfactory quality of LO
>
> (The article speaks literally of it that many features in the current
> version of the program, are so flawed that they can be used very little
> sense.)
>
> (b)
> to short release cycles of LO
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
All interesting comments and thanks for sharing. I couldn't get the full
article. :/

Go AOO!


-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

Re: Reopening the Vietnamese Forum

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Hagar Delest wrote:

> Le 16/12/2013 23:15, Kay Schenk a écrit :
>
>  Aside from captcha (I'm assuming this is used for registration?), do we
>> have any other spam tools in place for the Forums?
>>
>
> The only other counter measure is the first post moderation.
> And it is very effective. On the English board, there is absolutely no
> spam. The only remaining is the signature or the profile link but they are
> spotted very quickly and they don't appear until you look at the members
> list.
>
> So I don't think we need further tools.
> Except for moderators perhaps, something like a nuke button that bans the
> user and delete signature and profile web link automatically. But we live
> without. The rate (on the EN forum) is below 3.5 spam account per day.
>
> Hagar

OK, thanks. The reason why I asked is I saw that there ARE spam mods
available for phpBB and, not knowing our setup, I didn't know if we were
using any of them, or if they would help.

Like anything of that nature, they might help  if configured appropriately.

One even claims to "do" moderation. But, of course, some attention would
likely be necessary.

In this particular case, we might think about closing the "vi" forum and
deleting all accounts of a certain age if these seem to be the cause of
problems, then reopening again with only newer accounts available and see
what happens.

>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>
>

-- 
-
MzK

"Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time,
 for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect."
   -- James Mason

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

2013-12-17 Thread Steele, Raymond


Hebert,

Here is a listing of the files that we modified because the build did not 
accept a "const" qualifier when defining a parameter or a member variable. The 
solution was to simply remove the "const" at the time to make the build 
continue. Since the build did not complain, we left the changes in until the 
end.

/sideshow/source/inc/shapeimporter.(hxx/cxx) - member variables: mpGroupShape, 
mxShape, and mnCount
/svx/source/sidebar/tools/ColorControl.(hxx/cxx) - member function: 
SetCurrColorSelect
/svx/source/sidebar/tools/ColorPopup.(hxx/cxx) - member function: 
SetCurrentColor
/sc/source/ui/drawfunc/drawsw2.cxx - member function: Activate
/sw/source/core/uno/unocore/unoportenum.cxx - member typedef: PortionList_t

David Meffe

-Original Message-
From: Steele, Raymond 
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:36 PM
To: 'Herbert Duerr'; 'dev@openoffice.apache.org'
Cc: Meffe, David K
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Just wanted to add  that it appears that the formula and database application 
are launching, but not  Text Document, Spreadsheet,  Presentation, or Drawing.

-Original Message-
From: Steele, Raymond 
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:31 PM
To: 'Herbert Duerr'; dev@openoffice.apache.org
Cc: Meffe, David K
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Herbert,

At long last Raymond and I have successfully gotten through the entire build 
script without a fault. The executable seemed to create just fine and we were 
able to launch soffice. We got the splash screen, then the executable started 
and the options window appeared and everything looked to be in order, but when 
we selected one of the document types to open, the executable crashed with the 
memory error: 

./soffice[121]: wait: 6980: Memory fault

I don't think Raymond or I was expecting everything to work right on first 
launch and we were happy to see the splash screen, the executable start and the 
option menu appear. However, have you seen this type of memory error before or 
has it been seen by others? Do you have an idea what might cause this?

My fear is that we have made too many modifications to the code in order to get 
the system to build correctly. We have removed, in small select areas, "const" 
as a qualifier to certain parameters to member functions because the system 
would not compile with these parameters declared as a const. We can provide a 
list of these locations that we have edited, I believe it is about 3 or 4 files 
that might have been edited in this way. 

If you have any ideas, it would greatly help us out. Thanks.

David Meffe

-Original Message-
From: Herbert Duerr [mailto:h...@apache.org] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:46 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Cc: Meffe, David K; Steele, Raymond
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Hi David,

> Your idea worked. We were able to comment out those lines in the prex.h and 
> the system was able to successfully build the VCL module as well as several 
> others. We can almost taste the finish line.

Yay! I'm very glad to hear this 8-)

> However we have encountered another problem with the build that is a little 
> more difficult than just sorting out the included header files and paths, 
> this time in the slideshow module. The error is located in the c++  
> /usr/include/stdcxx4/deque.cc on line 569 and states that 
> ShapeImporter::XShapeEntry has a const member mpGroupShape and cannot be 
> reassigned. We can see in shapeimporter.cxx that line 181 is indeed a const 
> definition of mpGroupShape, but it doesn't seem to tie directly to line 569 
> in deque.cc. This may be because deque.cc may be used as a template, and the 
> assignment is forbidden because the value in XShapeEntry is a const, but is 
> there a way around this?

This seems to be caused by a strange interaction of boost's shared_ptr and that 
const members can only be set in constructor. Maybe rvalue references come into 
play here too if your compiler has them enabled. 
The exact error message could help...

> Do you have a thought as what we might try to continue with the build?

If the problem is in boost's shared_ptr then maybe updating to a later version 
could help. Please see my patch in issue 123817 if you want to update to the 
latest boost.

But maybe the shared_ptr problem is genuine when e.g. the reference counting 
requirements of such a shared_ptr require it to be non-const?

Anyway, the quickest workaround would be to remove the const from in line 119 
of shapeimporter.hxx and line 193 of shapeimporter.cxx.

Herbert


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RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

2013-12-17 Thread Steele, Raymond

Just wanted to add  that it appears that the formula and database application 
are launching, but not  Text Document, Spreadsheet,  Presentation, or Drawing.

-Original Message-
From: Steele, Raymond 
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:31 PM
To: 'Herbert Duerr'; dev@openoffice.apache.org
Cc: Meffe, David K
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Herbert,

At long last Raymond and I have successfully gotten through the entire build 
script without a fault. The executable seemed to create just fine and we were 
able to launch soffice. We got the splash screen, then the executable started 
and the options window appeared and everything looked to be in order, but when 
we selected one of the document types to open, the executable crashed with the 
memory error: 

./soffice[121]: wait: 6980: Memory fault

I don't think Raymond or I was expecting everything to work right on first 
launch and we were happy to see the splash screen, the executable start and the 
option menu appear. However, have you seen this type of memory error before or 
has it been seen by others? Do you have an idea what might cause this?

My fear is that we have made too many modifications to the code in order to get 
the system to build correctly. We have removed, in small select areas, "const" 
as a qualifier to certain parameters to member functions because the system 
would not compile with these parameters declared as a const. We can provide a 
list of these locations that we have edited, I believe it is about 3 or 4 files 
that might have been edited in this way. 

If you have any ideas, it would greatly help us out. Thanks.

David Meffe

-Original Message-
From: Herbert Duerr [mailto:h...@apache.org] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:46 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Cc: Meffe, David K; Steele, Raymond
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Hi David,

> Your idea worked. We were able to comment out those lines in the prex.h and 
> the system was able to successfully build the VCL module as well as several 
> others. We can almost taste the finish line.

Yay! I'm very glad to hear this 8-)

> However we have encountered another problem with the build that is a little 
> more difficult than just sorting out the included header files and paths, 
> this time in the slideshow module. The error is located in the c++  
> /usr/include/stdcxx4/deque.cc on line 569 and states that 
> ShapeImporter::XShapeEntry has a const member mpGroupShape and cannot be 
> reassigned. We can see in shapeimporter.cxx that line 181 is indeed a const 
> definition of mpGroupShape, but it doesn't seem to tie directly to line 569 
> in deque.cc. This may be because deque.cc may be used as a template, and the 
> assignment is forbidden because the value in XShapeEntry is a const, but is 
> there a way around this?

This seems to be caused by a strange interaction of boost's shared_ptr and that 
const members can only be set in constructor. Maybe rvalue references come into 
play here too if your compiler has them enabled. 
The exact error message could help...

> Do you have a thought as what we might try to continue with the build?

If the problem is in boost's shared_ptr then maybe updating to a later version 
could help. Please see my patch in issue 123817 if you want to update to the 
latest boost.

But maybe the shared_ptr problem is genuine when e.g. the reference counting 
requirements of such a shared_ptr require it to be non-const?

Anyway, the quickest workaround would be to remove the const from in line 119 
of shapeimporter.hxx and line 193 of shapeimporter.cxx.

Herbert

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RE: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

2013-12-17 Thread Steele, Raymond

Herbert,

At long last Raymond and I have successfully gotten through the entire build 
script without a fault. The executable seemed to create just fine and we were 
able to launch soffice. We got the splash screen, then the executable started 
and the options window appeared and everything looked to be in order, but when 
we selected one of the document types to open, the executable crashed with the 
memory error: 

./soffice[121]: wait: 6980: Memory fault

I don't think Raymond or I was expecting everything to work right on first 
launch and we were happy to see the splash screen, the executable start and the 
option menu appear. However, have you seen this type of memory error before or 
has it been seen by others? Do you have an idea what might cause this?

My fear is that we have made too many modifications to the code in order to get 
the system to build correctly. We have removed, in small select areas, "const" 
as a qualifier to certain parameters to member functions because the system 
would not compile with these parameters declared as a const. We can provide a 
list of these locations that we have edited, I believe it is about 3 or 4 files 
that might have been edited in this way. 

If you have any ideas, it would greatly help us out. Thanks.

David Meffe

-Original Message-
From: Herbert Duerr [mailto:h...@apache.org] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:46 AM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Cc: Meffe, David K; Steele, Raymond
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper

Hi David,

> Your idea worked. We were able to comment out those lines in the prex.h and 
> the system was able to successfully build the VCL module as well as several 
> others. We can almost taste the finish line.

Yay! I'm very glad to hear this 8-)

> However we have encountered another problem with the build that is a little 
> more difficult than just sorting out the included header files and paths, 
> this time in the slideshow module. The error is located in the c++  
> /usr/include/stdcxx4/deque.cc on line 569 and states that 
> ShapeImporter::XShapeEntry has a const member mpGroupShape and cannot be 
> reassigned. We can see in shapeimporter.cxx that line 181 is indeed a const 
> definition of mpGroupShape, but it doesn't seem to tie directly to line 569 
> in deque.cc. This may be because deque.cc may be used as a template, and the 
> assignment is forbidden because the value in XShapeEntry is a const, but is 
> there a way around this?

This seems to be caused by a strange interaction of boost's shared_ptr and that 
const members can only be set in constructor. Maybe rvalue references come into 
play here too if your compiler has them enabled. 
The exact error message could help...

> Do you have a thought as what we might try to continue with the build?

If the problem is in boost's shared_ptr then maybe updating to a later version 
could help. Please see my patch in issue 123817 if you want to update to the 
latest boost.

But maybe the shared_ptr problem is genuine when e.g. the reference counting 
requirements of such a shared_ptr require it to be non-const?

Anyway, the quickest workaround would be to remove the const from in line 119 
of shapeimporter.hxx and line 193 of shapeimporter.cxx.

Herbert


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Re: invalid Link

2013-12-17 Thread Dave Barton

e.bar wrote:
> Hallo,
> 
> on this page is a invalid link: 
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/writer/
> 
> It's on the right frame, below faq the CALC-FAQ , the mistake is the 
> word "writer/" in the url : 
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/writer/calc/index.html right  : 
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/calc/index.html
> 
> Greetings Erik

Thank you for bringing this to our attention Erik. There was more than
one link error on that page and they have all now been corrected.

Regards Dave


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Re: Reminder and blog post about FOSDEM 2014 talk submissions

2013-12-17 Thread Drew Jensen

Read over the blog, did not see anything to change - would think quickly
making live would be right IMO
On Dec 17, 2013 4:41 PM, "jan i"  wrote:

> On 17 December 2013 00:11, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>
> > Reminder: FOSDEM talk proposals must be submitted by Sunday 22 December.
> >
> > I also drafted a blog post quite similar to the official call, please
> have
> > a look so that we can publish it:
> >
> > https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=
> > join_apache_openoffice_at_fosdem
> >
> > It also contains all details about the submission process in case someone
> > missed them.
> >
> done, since I assume someone from AOO will choose I did not put too many
> details in.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Reopening the Vietnamese Forum

2013-12-17 Thread Hagar Delest


Le 16/12/2013 23:15, Kay Schenk a écrit :

Aside from captcha (I'm assuming this is used for registration?), do we
have any other spam tools in place for the Forums?


The only other counter measure is the first post moderation.
And it is very effective. On the English board, there is absolutely no spam. 
The only remaining is the signature or the profile link but they are spotted 
very quickly and they don't appear until you look at the members list.

So I don't think we need further tools.
Except for moderators perhaps, something like a nuke button that bans the user 
and delete signature and profile web link automatically. But we live without. 
The rate (on the EN forum) is below 3.5 spam account per day.

Hagar

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Re: Reminder and blog post about FOSDEM 2014 talk submissions

On 17 December 2013 00:11, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Reminder: FOSDEM talk proposals must be submitted by Sunday 22 December.
>
> I also drafted a blog post quite similar to the official call, please have
> a look so that we can publish it:
>
> https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=
> join_apache_openoffice_at_fosdem
>
> It also contains all details about the submission process in case someone
> missed them.
>
done, since I assume someone from AOO will choose I did not put too many
details in.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
> -
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>
>

Re: I think good news from Germany

2013-12-17 Thread Jörg Schmidt

 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:13 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: I think good news from Germany
> 
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Jörg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
> >> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> >
> >> > Let us furthermore covert our claim "Productivity Suite".
> >> >
> >>
> >> It sounds like a good, positive article.  Would it be 
> possible to get
> >> a few sentences, in English, that we could put on our home page?
> >> Today we have a news article, "Italian region adopts 
> OpenOffice, saves
> >> 2M Euro" on the right.  We could easily have one that 
> summarizes the
> >> c't article.  Very brief, only a few sentences.
> >
> > At OpenOffice.org we had the slogan:
> >
> > Open. For Business.
> >
> > and I think that fits here as well.
> >
> 
> I got a copy of the article.  It looks like the summation of it, after
> comparing AOO and LO is:
> 
> "Thus, the advantages [of LibreOffice] are restricted to smaller
> modifications.  Fundamental innovations such as the Sidebar have the
> developers only copied, from OpenOffice.  Because of this it makes no
> essential difference which of the two packages you use for everyday
> tasks.  Ultimately the OpenOffice package wins, because its developers
> seem to add new features only when they are running reliably -  as you
> would expect from professional developers."

Yes.


I think there are two other aspects in the article and which are:

(a)
the unsatisfactory quality of LO

(The article speaks literally of it that many features in the current version 
of the program, are so flawed that they can be used very little sense.)

(b)
to short release cycles of LO


Greetings,
Jörg


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Newbie documentation volunteer introduction

2013-12-17 Thread swh...@frontier.com

My name is Steven Hupp. I 
would like to help out with documentation. My aim is to get more 
experience with technical writing. I have subscribed to the dev, doc, 
user and announce mailing lists. I am making my way through the new 
volunteer orientation materials.

I live in Elkhart, Indiana. I am an Online Technology Assistant at the 
Elkhart County campus of Ivy Tech Community College. I help students and 
faculty with Blackboard learning management software and have tutored 
computer skills, writing and even a few beginning programming students. I have 
a Bachelor's in English, some training in programming and database 
administration, and a lot of informal poking around software to get it to work 
or to help someone else get it to work.

I am willing to learn and ready to help with whatever needs to be done, 
as far as documentation is concerned. Any help along the way is 
appreciated.
Steven Hupp

OpenOffice passwords: What are we telling users on the forums?

2013-12-17 Thread Απόστολος Συρόπουλος

I noticed this note, which I thought was odd:

http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg35699.html

I'm hoping this is just a confusion, but we do need to be careful to
avoid confusion in this area, since it can cause users to panic.

The facts, as I understand them:

There are two features in OpenOffice (and in LibreOffice and Microsoft
Office) that users refer to when they talk about passwords:

1) Password protected encrypted documents

2) Password protected sections, cells, read-only files, etc.

An encrypted document is as good as your password.  We use good, high
quality encryption in ODF documents by default.  And we use MS Office
compatible encryption, which is also good, with Office files.

But in practice most users have far weaker passwords than they should.
 The context of a password protected file is much more vulnerable than
a website password.  A typical website will allow you to attempt a log
in 3 or 5 times before locking you out for an hour or more.  But
someone who has your encrypted document can attempt to guess the
password without any such restriction.  They can run sophisticated
programs, standalone password crackers, with GPU hardware acceleration
to attempt billions of passwords.  So a casual password of 6
alphanumeric characters will be quickly broken. So given the context
users should be using longer, more complex passwords.  Of course, that
makes it more likely that they will forget the password and show up on
the forums when they forget.  However you look at it, document-based
passwords are a 1985 solution to a problem that is better solved today
in other ways.

As for the protected sections, we should all know that these are
"honor system" protection mechanisms, essentially child safety locks,
and offer no real cryptographic protection.  This is true in MS Office
is well.  The feature is there to help the user define sections that
they don't want accidentally deleted, but the password protection can
be trivially defeated in 30 seconds with a text editor and a copy of
unzip.  This is not a flaw in OpenOffice.  This is not a bug.  This is
how the feature was designed and has been used in Microsoft Office and
even 1-2-3 before then.

Hopefully we're telling users something that is consistent with what I
outlined above.  Of course, it is quite possible that many users will
not understand this and all they hear is "My password can be broken so
OpenOffice is bad".

Regards,

-Rob

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Re: Newbie documentation volunteer introduction

2013-12-17 Thread Keith N. McKenna

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

swh...@frontier.com wrote:
> My name is Steven Hupp. I would like to help out with
> documentation. My aim is to get more experience with technical
> writing. I have subscribed to the dev, doc, user and announce
> mailing lists. I am making my way through the new volunteer
> orientation materials.
> 
> I live in Elkhart, Indiana. I am an Online Technology Assistant at
> the Elkhart County campus of Ivy Tech Community College. I help
> students and faculty with Blackboard learning management software
> and have tutored computer skills, writing and even a few beginning
> programming students. I have a Bachelor's in English, some training
> in programming and database administration, and a lot of informal
> poking around software to get it to work or to help someone else
> get it to work.
> 
> I am willing to learn and ready to help with whatever needs to be
> done, as far as documentation is concerned. Any help along the way
> is appreciated. Steven Hupp
> 
Greetings Steven;

Welcome to Apache OpenOffice. Your help and skills will be very useful
in the documentation effort. The first thing to do if you have not is
to introduce yourself on the documentation list. That is where all
things concerning documentation are discussed.

I look forward to seeing and working with you on the documentation list

Regards
Keith

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createRegistryServiceFactory: "cannot get uno environments!"

Hello,

While building i18npool the process stops with the follwoing error message:

Entering /extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data

: && 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/lib${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+:${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}}
  ../../../unxsogi.pro/bin/saxparser en_AU en_AU.xml 
../../../unxsogi.pro/misc/localedata_en_AU.cxx \

file:///extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/i18npool/source/localedata/data/../../../unxsogi.pro/misc/saxparser.rdb
 /extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/bin/types.rdb \

-env:OOO_INBUILD_SHAREDLIB_DIR=file:///extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/lib
Exception on createRegistryServiceFactory: "cannot get uno environments!"
dmake:  Error code 1, while making 
'../../../unxsogi.pro/misc/localedata_en_AU.cxx'

The binary does not dump core (I have seen similar things in a google search 
but in these cases there was a core dump involved).
Any ideas what might be the problem?

A.S.

--
Apostols Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece

Re: Low vision

2013-12-17 Thread Vladislav Stevanovic

Yin,  IAccessible2 support - can you tell me more about that?

Regards,
Wlada


2013/12/17 Steve Yin 

> Hi Wlada,
>
> No new functionality for low vision users in the latest version. As for
> other respects of accessibility, AOO gets IAccessible2 support now. I hope
> this is helpful for you.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:00 AM, Vladislav Stevanovic <
> stevanovicvladis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I do not tracked discusion about that: does AOO get some new
> functionality
> > for those persons with low vision?
> > Wlada
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Yin
>

Re: I think good news from Germany

2013-12-17 Thread Απόστολος Συρόπουλος

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>
>> > Let us furthermore covert our claim "Productivity Suite".
>> >
>>
>> It sounds like a good, positive article.  Would it be possible to get
>> a few sentences, in English, that we could put on our home page?
>> Today we have a news article, "Italian region adopts OpenOffice, saves
>> 2M Euro" on the right.  We could easily have one that summarizes the
>> c't article.  Very brief, only a few sentences.
>
> At OpenOffice.org we had the slogan:
>
> Open. For Business.
>
> and I think that fits here as well.
>

I got a copy of the article.  It looks like the summation of it, after
comparing AOO and LO is:

"Thus, the advantages [of LibreOffice] are restricted to smaller
modifications.  Fundamental innovations such as the Sidebar have the
developers only copied, from OpenOffice.  Because of this it makes no
essential difference which of the two packages you use for everyday
tasks.  Ultimately the OpenOffice package wins, because its developers
seem to add new features only when they are running reliably -  as you
would expect from professional developers."

Regards,

-Rob

>
> Gretings,
> Jörg
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

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RE: comphelper/source/misc/locale.cxx error

Hello Herbert,

Thank you very much for the patch. Currently, I am trying to finish the build 
i18npool.
I have applied the patch but I am getting some "strange" errors:

[ build CXX ] comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper
In file included from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/mediadescriptor.hxx:30:0,
 from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:29:
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:73:54:
 σφάλμα: expected template-name before '<' token
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:73:54:
 σφάλμα: expected '{' before '<' token
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:73:54:
 σφάλμα: expected unqualified-id before '<' token
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:81:55:
 σφάλμα: invalid use of incomplete type 'struct 
comphelper::SequenceAsHashMapBase'
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:73:8:
 σφάλμα: forward declaration of 'struct comphelper::SequenceAsHashMapBase'
In file included from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/mediadescriptor.hxx:30:0,
 from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:29:
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:
 In member function 'TValueType 
comphelper::SequenceAsHashMap::getUnpackedValueOrDefault(const rtl::OUString&, 
const TValueType&) const':
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:278:13:
 σφάλμα: 'const_iterator' was not declared in this scope
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:278:28:
 σφάλμα: expected ';' before 'pIt'
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:279:17:
 σφάλμα: 'pIt' was not declared in this scope
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:279:28:
 σφάλμα: there are no arguments to 'end' that depend on a template parameter, 
so a declaration of 'end' must be available [-fpermissive]
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:279:28:
 σημείωση: (if you use '-fpermissive', G++ will accept your code, but allowing 
the use of an undeclared name is deprecated)
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:283:19:
 σφάλμα: 'pIt' was not declared in this scope
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:
 In member function 'sal_Bool 
comphelper::SequenceAsHashMap::createItemIfMissing(const rtl::OUString&, const 
TValueType&)':
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:314:26:
 σφάλμα: there are no arguments to 'find' that depend on a template parameter, 
so a declaration of 'find' must be available [-fpermissive]
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:314:35:
 σφάλμα: there are no arguments to 'end' that depend on a template parameter, 
so a declaration of 'end' must be available [-fpermissive]
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:316:29:
 σφάλμα: no match for 'operator[]' in '* this[sKey]'
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:
 In static member function 'static 
com::sun::star::uno::Sequence 
comphelper::DocPasswordHelper::requestAndVerifyDocPassword(comphelper::IDocPasswordVerifier&,
 comphelper::MediaDescriptor&, comphelper::DocPasswordRequestType, const 
std::vector*)':
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:455:16:
 σφάλμα: 'class comphelper::MediaDescriptor' has no member named 'erase'
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:456:16:
 σφάλμα: 'class comphelper::MediaDescriptor' has no member named 'erase'
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:460:60:
 σφάλμα: no match for 'operator[]' in 
'rMediaDesc[comphelper::MediaDescriptor::PROP_ENCRYPTIONDATA()]'
In file included from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/mediadescriptor.hxx:30:0,
 from 
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/comphelper/source/misc/docpasswordhelper.cxx:29:
/extra/sources/OpenOffice/aoo4/main/solver/410/unxsogi.pro/inc/comphelper/sequenceashashmap.hxx:
 In instantiation of 'TValueType 
comphelper::SequenceAsHashMap::getUnpackedValueOrDefault(const rtl::OUString&, 
const TValueType&) const [with TVa

Re: Windows patches (another update)

2013-12-17 Thread Andre Fischer


On 17.12.2013 14:46, jan i wrote:

On 17 December 2013 09:20, Andre Fischer  wrote:


I have committed all my remaining changes to SVN trunk.  I have documented
the patch creation process in the Wiki [1].  There are subsections that
- give an overview [2]
- explain how to create patches [3]
- and the know issues [4]

Most of this is probably only interesting for the release manager.

Two things remain to be done and where I ask you for help:
- testing
- figuring out how to integrate patches into our release, ie how to
distribute patches to our users.

A size of a patch for a regular en-US OpenOffice installation (not
language pack, sdk, dev etc.) from 4.0.1 to trunk (as of end of last week)
is roughly 18MB.  I am not sure how to give testers access to that.  Any
ideas are welcome.


just had look at your doc.

good work, this will make our updates quite a lot more flexible.


Thanks, yes I hope so.

By the way, I have uploaded the patch that applies to AOO 4.0.1 en-US to 
people.apache.org.  It is available as

http://people.apache.org/~af/openoffice.msp
Note, that it is not applicable to any 4.0.1.  It has to be one 
installed from the officially released installation set.


-Andre



rgds
jan I.



Best regards,
Andre


[1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_packages
[2] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
packages#Patches_on_Windows
[3] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
packages#How_To_Create_Patches
[4] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
packages#Known_Issues


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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

On 12/17/13 3:54 PM, FR web forum wrote:
>> no, as far as I know their are no UI changes. I plan an update of the
>> released languages and new languages based on the aoo40 to integrate fixes.
> I thought that new features like Accessibility Support could be documented in 
> help file.
> So, we have missing strings: 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123756
> 

yes in general it would be nice to have this info in the help files but
for now we don't have it as far as I know.

We should work on this asap and then we can update the stings. For post
4.1 versions I expect even more UI changes.

We can and should communicate this via the release notes and via other
channels and should update the help system asap.

Juergen

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Re: Proposed: Website Satisfaction Survey

2013-12-17 Thread Drew Jensen

Og well let's leave at the email on the user ML for now.
On Dec 17, 2013 10:13 AM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Drew Jensen
>  wrote:
> > Thanks for this Rob - so we do want point folks to this url , social
> media
> > posts and the like, yes.. starting now?
>
> No need to stress test the server, but yes, let's roll out the message
> over the next few hours.  But gently.  It is running on my server ;-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013 9:59 AM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >> > Google has a new service that makes it easy to add a website
> >> > satisfaction survey to a website.  The free version has 4 questions
> >> > that are asked of 500 random website visitors each month.  We would be
> >> > given results on a monthly basis.  (They also have a paid version of
> >> > this service where you can customize the questions, but I think the
> >> > free version is fine for our use).
> >> >
> >>
> >> After further discussion on the marketing mailing list we've decided
> >> to not use Google for the survey but to use our LimeSurvey instance to
> >> conduct our own website satisfaction survey.
> >>
> >> You are invited to respond to the survey here:
> >>
> >> http://survey.openoffice.org/index.php/522696/lang-en
> >>
> >> Consider this to be a small-scale "beta test" of the survey.   We may
> >> refine the questions based on this initial trial.  I hope a future
> >> iteration of the survey will be linked to from the www.openoffice.org
> >> website where we can use it to get ongoing feedback.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> > The questions are:
> >> >
> >> > I. Overall, how satisfied are you with this website?
> >> >
> >> > 1) Very satisfied
> >> > 2) Somewhat satisfied
> >> > 3) Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied
> >> > 4) Somewhat dissatisfied
> >> > 5) Very dissatisfied
> >> >
> >> > II. What, if anything, do you find frustrating or unappealing about
> >> > this website?
> >> >
> >> > III. What is your main reason for visiting this website today?
> >> >
> >> > IV. Did you successfully complete your main reason for visiting this
> >> > website today?
> >> >
> >> > 1) Yes, I was successful
> >> > 2) I'm still completing my reason for visiting
> >> > 3) No, I tried but wasn't successful
> >> >
> >> > You can see an example of what the survey looks like here:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.google.com/insights/consumersurveys/websat_example
> >> >
> >> > Adding it to the website is easy:  a single line added to the header.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > -Rob
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
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>
>

Re: Proposed: Website Satisfaction Survey

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Drew Jensen
 wrote:
> Thanks for this Rob - so we do want point folks to this url , social media
> posts and the like, yes.. starting now?

No need to stress test the server, but yes, let's roll out the message
over the next few hours.  But gently.  It is running on my server ;-)

Thanks,

-Rob


> On Dec 17, 2013 9:59 AM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
>> > Google has a new service that makes it easy to add a website
>> > satisfaction survey to a website.  The free version has 4 questions
>> > that are asked of 500 random website visitors each month.  We would be
>> > given results on a monthly basis.  (They also have a paid version of
>> > this service where you can customize the questions, but I think the
>> > free version is fine for our use).
>> >
>>
>> After further discussion on the marketing mailing list we've decided
>> to not use Google for the survey but to use our LimeSurvey instance to
>> conduct our own website satisfaction survey.
>>
>> You are invited to respond to the survey here:
>>
>> http://survey.openoffice.org/index.php/522696/lang-en
>>
>> Consider this to be a small-scale "beta test" of the survey.   We may
>> refine the questions based on this initial trial.  I hope a future
>> iteration of the survey will be linked to from the www.openoffice.org
>> website where we can use it to get ongoing feedback.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > The questions are:
>> >
>> > I. Overall, how satisfied are you with this website?
>> >
>> > 1) Very satisfied
>> > 2) Somewhat satisfied
>> > 3) Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied
>> > 4) Somewhat dissatisfied
>> > 5) Very dissatisfied
>> >
>> > II. What, if anything, do you find frustrating or unappealing about
>> > this website?
>> >
>> > III. What is your main reason for visiting this website today?
>> >
>> > IV. Did you successfully complete your main reason for visiting this
>> > website today?
>> >
>> > 1) Yes, I was successful
>> > 2) I'm still completing my reason for visiting
>> > 3) No, I tried but wasn't successful
>> >
>> > You can see an example of what the survey looks like here:
>> >
>> > http://www.google.com/insights/consumersurveys/websat_example
>> >
>> > Adding it to the website is easy:  a single line added to the header.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -Rob
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>

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Re: Proposed: Website Satisfaction Survey

2013-12-17 Thread Drew Jensen

Thanks for this Rob - so we do want point folks to this url , social media
posts and the like, yes.. starting now?
On Dec 17, 2013 9:59 AM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> > Google has a new service that makes it easy to add a website
> > satisfaction survey to a website.  The free version has 4 questions
> > that are asked of 500 random website visitors each month.  We would be
> > given results on a monthly basis.  (They also have a paid version of
> > this service where you can customize the questions, but I think the
> > free version is fine for our use).
> >
>
> After further discussion on the marketing mailing list we've decided
> to not use Google for the survey but to use our LimeSurvey instance to
> conduct our own website satisfaction survey.
>
> You are invited to respond to the survey here:
>
> http://survey.openoffice.org/index.php/522696/lang-en
>
> Consider this to be a small-scale "beta test" of the survey.   We may
> refine the questions based on this initial trial.  I hope a future
> iteration of the survey will be linked to from the www.openoffice.org
> website where we can use it to get ongoing feedback.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> > The questions are:
> >
> > I. Overall, how satisfied are you with this website?
> >
> > 1) Very satisfied
> > 2) Somewhat satisfied
> > 3) Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied
> > 4) Somewhat dissatisfied
> > 5) Very dissatisfied
> >
> > II. What, if anything, do you find frustrating or unappealing about
> > this website?
> >
> > III. What is your main reason for visiting this website today?
> >
> > IV. Did you successfully complete your main reason for visiting this
> > website today?
> >
> > 1) Yes, I was successful
> > 2) I'm still completing my reason for visiting
> > 3) No, I tried but wasn't successful
> >
> > You can see an example of what the survey looks like here:
> >
> > http://www.google.com/insights/consumersurveys/websat_example
> >
> > Adding it to the website is easy:  a single line added to the header.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Proposed: Website Satisfaction Survey

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> Google has a new service that makes it easy to add a website
> satisfaction survey to a website.  The free version has 4 questions
> that are asked of 500 random website visitors each month.  We would be
> given results on a monthly basis.  (They also have a paid version of
> this service where you can customize the questions, but I think the
> free version is fine for our use).
>

After further discussion on the marketing mailing list we've decided
to not use Google for the survey but to use our LimeSurvey instance to
conduct our own website satisfaction survey.

You are invited to respond to the survey here:

http://survey.openoffice.org/index.php/522696/lang-en

Consider this to be a small-scale "beta test" of the survey.   We may
refine the questions based on this initial trial.  I hope a future
iteration of the survey will be linked to from the www.openoffice.org
website where we can use it to get ongoing feedback.

Regards,

-Rob

> The questions are:
>
> I. Overall, how satisfied are you with this website?
>
> 1) Very satisfied
> 2) Somewhat satisfied
> 3) Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied
> 4) Somewhat dissatisfied
> 5) Very dissatisfied
>
> II. What, if anything, do you find frustrating or unappealing about
> this website?
>
> III. What is your main reason for visiting this website today?
>
> IV. Did you successfully complete your main reason for visiting this
> website today?
>
> 1) Yes, I was successful
> 2) I'm still completing my reason for visiting
> 3) No, I tried but wasn't successful
>
> You can see an example of what the survey looks like here:
>
> http://www.google.com/insights/consumersurveys/websat_example
>
> Adding it to the website is easy:  a single line added to the header.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob

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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

2013-12-17 Thread FR web forum

>no, as far as I know their are no UI changes. I plan an update of the
>released languages and new languages based on the aoo40 to integrate fixes.
I thought that new features like Accessibility Support could be documented in 
help file.
So, we have missing strings: 
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=123756

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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

On 12/17/13 3:18 PM, jan i wrote:
> On 17 December 2013 15:12, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/17/13 3:00 PM, FR web forum wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
 Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
>>> Did you set an aoo41 folder in Pootle?
>>
>> no, as far as I know their are no UI changes. I plan an update of the
>> released languages and new languages based on the aoo40 to integrate fixes.
>>
>> Ideally people who made improvements or fixed translations should create
>> a new issue for the integration.
>>
>> I know it is still a lot of manual work but I hope this will and can
>> change in the near future.
>>
> 
> @jsc: please DONT rename the project in pootle, there is a known problem
> with that, so lets keep it as it is.

I don't plan to rename anything ;-)

Juergen

> 
> rgds
> jan I.
> 
> 
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -
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>>
>>
> 


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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

On 17 December 2013 15:12, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 12/17/13 3:00 PM, FR web forum wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >> Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
> > Did you set an aoo41 folder in Pootle?
>
> no, as far as I know their are no UI changes. I plan an update of the
> released languages and new languages based on the aoo40 to integrate fixes.
>
> Ideally people who made improvements or fixed translations should create
> a new issue for the integration.
>
> I know it is still a lot of manual work but I hope this will and can
> change in the near future.
>

@jsc: please DONT rename the project in pootle, there is a known problem
with that, so lets keep it as it is.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Juergen
>
>
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
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>
>

Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

On 12/17/13 3:00 PM, FR web forum wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>> Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
> Did you set an aoo41 folder in Pootle?

no, as far as I know their are no UI changes. I plan an update of the
released languages and new languages based on the aoo40 to integrate fixes.

Ideally people who made improvements or fixed translations should create
a new issue for the integration.

I know it is still a lot of manual work but I hope this will and can
change in the near future.

Juergen

> 
> -
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> 

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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

On 17 December 2013 15:00, FR web forum  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> >Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
> Did you set an aoo41 folder in Pootle?
>
no need to make a new project, just use the existing one.

rgds
jan I.


>
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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

2013-12-17 Thread FR web forum

Hello,

>Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
Did you set an aoo41 folder in Pootle?

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invalid Link

2013-12-17 Thread e.bar

Hallo,

on this page is a invalid link: http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/writer/

It's on the right frame, below faq the CALC-FAQ , the mistake is the word
"writer/" in the url :
http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/writer/calc/index.html 
right  : http://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/faq/calc/index.html 

Greetings Erik

Re: [RELEASE]: new MacOS compiler used for the 64 bit tool chain requires a new baseline

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:03 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> On 12/17/13 10:39 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
>> On 2013-12-17, 3:07 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
>>> On 12/16/13 6:31 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
 On 2013-12-16, 5:47 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> I would like to propose that with AOO 4.1 we support 10.7 or higher
> MacOS systems only at the beginning. We can decide later on if it's
> worth to spend additional time in 10.6 systems but for now I would not
> spent any further time on it. We have to look forward and we should
> take
> into account that we have many other things to do that will be address
> the needs and requirements of many more users.
 -1
 There are a significant number of people who use 10.6 and won't upgrade
 for a variety of reasons.
>>> we need real numbers. And we should keep in mind that Apple has a
>>> different philosophy and cut older systems more rigorous. We have to
>>> take this into account and the update on new core APIs was overdue. The
>>> risk to run into real and bigger problems is very high.
>>
>> 10.6 was replaced in July 2011. That is 2 year and 5 months ago.
>> You need real numbers to justify your position. I see lots of comments
>> from people on various support groups that they are not upgrading.
>>
>>> If volunteers are interested to help here we can and will help but we
>>> will focus on the mainstream and with supporting the last 3 versions I
>>> believe we address most of the users.
>>
>> Provide some valid statistics to back that up. You said you need real
>> numbers, provide them.
>
> I will try to provide download numbers and from which OS version these
> downloads are triggered
>

I have some data from Google Analytics, looking at people in the last
month who downloaded AOO for Mac.

10.9 is 57%
10.8 is 15%
10.7 is 9%
10.6 is 15%
10.5 is 3%
10.4 is <1%

Compare that to the numbers from 6 months ago (June 2013):

10.9 is N/A
10.8 is 45%
10.7 is 18%
10.6 is 22%
10.5 is 11%
10.4 is 3%

And Compare to 1 year ago (December 2012):

10.9 is N/A
10.8 is 34%
10.7 is 23%
10.6 is 31%
10.5 is 9%
10.4 is 3%


So it looks like 10.8 and 10.7 users have rapidly moved to 10.9.  10.6
users are dropping as well, but more slowly, from 31% to 15% in the
last 12 months.

Keep in mind that MacOS in total is around 10% of our users, so this
means that Mac OS 10.6 represents 1% or 2% of our total users.   Of
course, if the effort needed to support 10.6 was only 1% or 2%
incremental effort, over the dev effort for AOO 4.1, then I'd
recommend not dropping it.  But if it requires substantial effort to
preserve older compatibility, while also moving forward with 64-bit
support, then it is harder to justify diverting effort away from
deeper support for the majority of our users, for a much smaller
number of users lingering on 10.6.

I think it is interesting that other older OS's are well supported by
third parties, including Solaris and OS/2.  Maybe someone would be
interested in doing the same with older MacOS versions?

Regards,

-Rob

>>
>>> Sorry if this sounds to harsh for you but we have to prioritize our work
>>> and nobody should expect that we do all the work.
>>
>> What is this we/they thing. Is there two projects here? Sounds like
>> developer superiority speech to me.
>
> no we are one project but the work have to be done. I simply described
> that we will focus on the new clang environment and the upgrade to new
> core APIs to be able to run on future OS versions. We don't plan to
> focus on older systems. But I offered help if people think they need an
> older system and if they are interested to help. Because it comes not
> automatically.
>
>>
>>> And believe me we don't drop an older version easy and we would prefer
>>> to support as many as possible but sometimes the given constraints are
>>> different.
>>
>> A two year and five month old version is not old. After all, you still
>> support Windows XP.
>
> I agree but Apple follows a different approach than MS. You can blame
> Apple if you want. I described the technical reason for my initial
> proposal. I would prefer to continue the support of 10.6 but I see it
> also realistic.
>
>>
>>> And whatever reasons are there that don't allow a free update to a newer
>>> system, these users should think if this platform is the right one for
>>> them.
>>
>> There is no free upgrade from  OS X ver. 10.6, only paid upgrades.
>> The only free upgrade is to 10.9 and you require at least 10.7 to get
>> it. Many Intel Macs won't run 10.9.
>
> really, I thought it is possible to upgrade from 10.6.
>
> But anyway it is a lot of work to make the new env working with 10.6 and
> I don't see a chance to achieve this in time or at all if nobody is
> interested to help.
>
> Juergen
>
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Re: Windows patches (another update)

On 17 December 2013 09:20, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> I have committed all my remaining changes to SVN trunk.  I have documented
> the patch creation process in the Wiki [1].  There are subsections that
> - give an overview [2]
> - explain how to create patches [3]
> - and the know issues [4]
>
> Most of this is probably only interesting for the release manager.
>
> Two things remain to be done and where I ask you for help:
> - testing
> - figuring out how to integrate patches into our release, ie how to
> distribute patches to our users.
>
> A size of a patch for a regular en-US OpenOffice installation (not
> language pack, sdk, dev etc.) from 4.0.1 to trunk (as of end of last week)
> is roughly 18MB.  I am not sure how to give testers access to that.  Any
> ideas are welcome.
>

just had look at your doc.

good work, this will make our updates quite a lot more flexible.

rgds
jan I.


>
> Best regards,
> Andre
>
>
> [1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_packages
> [2] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
> packages#Patches_on_Windows
> [3] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
> packages#How_To_Create_Patches
> [4] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_installation_
> packages#Known_Issues
>
>
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Re: I think good news from Germany

2013-12-17 Thread Jörg Schmidt

> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 

> > Let us furthermore covert our claim "Productivity Suite".
> >
> 
> It sounds like a good, positive article.  Would it be possible to get
> a few sentences, in English, that we could put on our home page?
> Today we have a news article, "Italian region adopts OpenOffice, saves
> 2M Euro" on the right.  We could easily have one that summarizes the
> c't article.  Very brief, only a few sentences.

At OpenOffice.org we had the slogan:

Open. For Business.

and I think that fits here as well.


Gretings,
Jörg


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Re: I think good news from Germany

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:23 AM, RA Stehmann
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I tried to write down some notions based on the article and some
> reactions (in german language)
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/users-de@openoffice.apache.org/msg01844.html
>
> (Feel free to tranlate it.)
>
> I've got accordance from germanophone community members.
>
> Very short abstract:
>
> Let us furthermore covert our claim "Productivity Suite".
>

It sounds like a good, positive article.  Would it be possible to get
a few sentences, in English, that we could put on our home page?
Today we have a news article, "Italian region adopts OpenOffice, saves
2M Euro" on the right.  We could easily have one that summarizes the
c't article.  Very brief, only a few sentences.

Regards,

-Rob

> Regards
> Michael
>

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Re: [RELEASE]: proposal for our next release AOO 4.1

Hi,

well it seems that I was a little bit to optimistic or do I need a
break? I don't know probably both but I talked with the developers in my
direct surrounding field and taking the Christmas break, vacation etc.
into account we believe that my proposal was a little bit to optimistic.

I don't know what others think but based on this new information I would
like to move my proposed schedule a little bit.

Jan 24, 2014 feature freeze
Jan 27, 2014 translation freeze
Feb ??, 2014 feature FVT finish (I know in China is public holiday as
well from Jan 31 - Feb 7)
Feb 14, 2014 4.1 beta candidate
Feb 21, 2014 4.1 beta release for pubic review
Feb 21 - ? full regression testing and bug fixing
Mar 21, 2014 RC1?
Apr 1, 2014  GA? (I like this date if possible)

It would nice to hear other opinions or general feedback.

Juergen

On 12/6/13 9:41 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> some time ago we have discussed a language only release on base of
> 4.0.1. And even a language release requires a lot of work. Until today I
> see 3 potential languages ready which is not enough from my perspective.
> But on the other side we have some nice stuff in place that should be
> released asap, for example the iAccessibility support which is a great
> step forward and will help a lot of people.
> 
> I would like to propose a new release AOO 4.1 early next year and as
> soon as possible. Taking into account that Christmas and the related
> holidays in many countries will slow down all the activities a little
> bit I can think of the following:
> 
> Jan 10, 2014features freeze
> Jan 13, 2014  translation freeze for beta 
> Jan 20, 2014  feature FVT finish  
> Jan 21, 2014  4.1 beta candidate, with major features and languages
> Jan 27, 2014  4.1 beta release for public review
> Jan 27 - ?full regression testing and bug fixing
> ? RC1 Feb 28, or later?
>   GA  ?
> 
> 
> I really would like to see the iAccessibility improvements publicly
> available as soon as possible because from my perspective it is a
> further huge milestone for AOO. And I would like to support the new
> languages as soon as possible and hopefully we can have a few more. Some
> are very close to be ready.
> 
> Opinions and feedback is welcome and I hope may of you can share my view.
> 
> Juergen
> 


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Font color list box show incorrect colors after scrolling

2013-12-17 Thread Vadim Yedzinovich

Hello,

Win 7, AOO410m1(Build:9750) - Rev.1550158

Impress menu items Format/Character...
Tab Font Effects.
Open Font color drop list.
Scroll this list with mouse Down and Up via slider  and see incorrect
colors (see attached screen shot).
Need to move mouse cursor over the list to see correct colors.
Could you please help me to determinate where is a problem and how it can
be fixed?

Due to my finding problem is in C:\...trunk\main\cui\wntmsci12.pro\bin>cui.dll
(perhaps in com.sun.star.cui.ColorPicker)

Thank you,
Vadim.

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Re: [RELEASE]: new MacOS compiler used for the 64 bit tool chain requires a new baseline

On 12/17/13 10:39 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> On 2013-12-17, 3:07 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
>> On 12/16/13 6:31 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-16, 5:47 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
 I would like to propose that with AOO 4.1 we support 10.7 or higher
 MacOS systems only at the beginning. We can decide later on if it's
 worth to spend additional time in 10.6 systems but for now I would not
 spent any further time on it. We have to look forward and we should
 take
 into account that we have many other things to do that will be address
 the needs and requirements of many more users.
>>> -1
>>> There are a significant number of people who use 10.6 and won't upgrade
>>> for a variety of reasons.
>> we need real numbers. And we should keep in mind that Apple has a
>> different philosophy and cut older systems more rigorous. We have to
>> take this into account and the update on new core APIs was overdue. The
>> risk to run into real and bigger problems is very high.
> 
> 10.6 was replaced in July 2011. That is 2 year and 5 months ago.
> You need real numbers to justify your position. I see lots of comments
> from people on various support groups that they are not upgrading.
> 
>> If volunteers are interested to help here we can and will help but we
>> will focus on the mainstream and with supporting the last 3 versions I
>> believe we address most of the users.
> 
> Provide some valid statistics to back that up. You said you need real
> numbers, provide them.

I will try to provide download numbers and from which OS version these
downloads are triggered

> 
>> Sorry if this sounds to harsh for you but we have to prioritize our work
>> and nobody should expect that we do all the work.
> 
> What is this we/they thing. Is there two projects here? Sounds like
> developer superiority speech to me.

no we are one project but the work have to be done. I simply described
that we will focus on the new clang environment and the upgrade to new
core APIs to be able to run on future OS versions. We don't plan to
focus on older systems. But I offered help if people think they need an
older system and if they are interested to help. Because it comes not
automatically.

> 
>> And believe me we don't drop an older version easy and we would prefer
>> to support as many as possible but sometimes the given constraints are
>> different.
> 
> A two year and five month old version is not old. After all, you still
> support Windows XP.

I agree but Apple follows a different approach than MS. You can blame
Apple if you want. I described the technical reason for my initial
proposal. I would prefer to continue the support of 10.6 but I see it
also realistic.

> 
>> And whatever reasons are there that don't allow a free update to a newer
>> system, these users should think if this platform is the right one for
>> them.
> 
> There is no free upgrade from  OS X ver. 10.6, only paid upgrades.
> The only free upgrade is to 10.9 and you require at least 10.7 to get
> it. Many Intel Macs won't run 10.9.

really, I thought it is possible to upgrade from 10.6.

But anyway it is a lot of work to make the new env working with 10.6 and
I don't see a chance to achieve this in time or at all if nobody is
interested to help.

Juergen

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Re: [RELEASE]: new MacOS compiler used for the 64 bit tool chain requires a new baseline

2013-12-17 Thread Larry Gusaas

On 2013-12-17, 3:07 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

On 12/16/13 6:31 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

On 2013-12-16, 5:47 AM Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

I would like to propose that with AOO 4.1 we support 10.7 or higher
MacOS systems only at the beginning. We can decide later on if it's
worth to spend additional time in 10.6 systems but for now I would not
spent any further time on it. We have to look forward and we should take
into account that we have many other things to do that will be address
the needs and requirements of many more users.

-1
There are a significant number of people who use 10.6 and won't upgrade
for a variety of reasons.

we need real numbers. And we should keep in mind that Apple has a
different philosophy and cut older systems more rigorous. We have to
take this into account and the update on new core APIs was overdue. The
risk to run into real and bigger problems is very high.

10.6 was replaced in July 2011. That is 2 year and 5 months ago.
You need real numbers to justify your position. I see lots of comments from people on various
support groups that they are not upgrading.

If volunteers are interested to help here we can and will help but we
will focus on the mainstream and with supporting the last 3 versions I
believe we address most of the users.

Provide some valid statistics to back that up. You said you need real numbers,
provide them.

Sorry if this sounds to harsh for you but we have to prioritize our work
and nobody should expect that we do all the work.

What is this we/they thing. Is there two projects here? Sounds like developer superiority
speech to me.

And believe me we don't drop an older version easy and we would prefer
to support as many as possible but sometimes the given constraints are
different.

A two year and five month old version is not old. After all, you still support
Windows XP.

And whatever reasons are there that don't allow a free update to a newer
system, these users should think if this platform is the right one for
them.

There is no free upgrade from OS X ver. 10.6, only paid upgrades.
The only free upgrade is to 10.9 and you require at least 10.7 to get it. Many Intel Macs won't
run 10.9.

Well this is just my personal opinion.

Juergen

--
_

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." -
Edgard Varese

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Re: OpenOffice development with Eclipse

On 12/17/13 9:58 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> About a week or so ago I tried again to import the OpenOffice source
> code into Eclipse.  The last time I tried that, a few years ago, this
> did not work at all.  Our source code was just to big and too complex. 
> This time however, it worked out of the box.  If you do it right :-) 
> The developers of the CDT (the C/C++ Development Tooling) have made
> great progress in the last years.
> 
> As this allows newcomers a much easier way to become OpenOffice
> developers and also can make the work of experienced developers more
> productive I would like to share how to set up Eclipse for OpenOffice. 
> This process is still a bit rough around the edges. Any help is
> appreciated.
> 
> I have started a Wiki page [1] which explains the manual setup. It
> should work on all platforms but at the moment only Windows is
> described.  Maybe you can help to fill in missing values for other
> platforms.  I am working on a few Eclipse plugins to automate this process:
> 
> - A wizard for setting up an Eclipse workspace.  The prototype has just
> to be pointed to the (compiled) source code.  It will then collect all
> the necessary include paths and set the necessary compiler defines so
> that the indexer can resolve even the platform dependent definitions. 
> This is important because even something as simple as sal_Int16 will not
> be recognized without the indexer being told about platform specific
> preprocessor defines.
> 
> - The idea of CDT about how C/C++ files are built is different from how
> OpenOffice does it.  Therefore I am developing a short term solution
> that provides a couple of buttons/menu entries/whatever will be
> appropriate to build the current module, directory or file and then
> deploy the new libraries into an installed office.
> 
> 
> Here are some highlight of what Eclipse and CDT allow us to do:
> 
> - Easily switch between header and implementation file.
> 
> - Follow header inclusion (just Ctrl-click on an #include statement and
> the referenced header file is opened in the editor.
> 
> - Get information about variables and classes by simply hovering over
> their names.  A popup box shows you the variable definition or the class
> implementation.  That is something you have to see to believe it.
> 
> - Find out from where a function or method is called
> 
> - Explore the type hierarchy of a class.
> 
> - Macro expansion.  Hover over a macro use and see the expansion of it,
> several iterations if necessary. Ever wanted to know how IMPL_LINK is
> defined?  Just move your mouse pointer over it.
> 
> - Code assist while typing.  Define a variable, eg.
>   ::rtl::OUString sText
>   Then type "sText.", wait a little (default is 500ms) and a box shows
> you all the available methods of OUString.
> 
> - An overview at the right side shows you all the functions, methods,
> includes, macro defines etc, that are made in the currently edited
> file.  Click on one and jump to the corresponding source code.
> 
> 
> All of this may sound familiar to Java developers.  But for C++,
> especially for OpenOffice, I think this is quite remarkable.

And to underline what Andre has described above, this is really cool and
we are sure it will help us a lot.

I watched a video from Bjoern Michaelsen from LO where he presented
something similar for KDevelop and pointed out what's possible with
their new complete gbuild system  I didn't understand the relation
between the build system and the integration and talked with Andre about
and others about it.

Andre who is quite familiar with Eclipse (I am more a NetBeans guy)
spend a first hour on experimenting with Eclipse. We didn't knew that
and after an hour he presented us the first results which were impressive.

I did a similar test on my Mac with the same result and was able to
compile and debug (old gcc env) in Eclipse. Well I had some problems
with the new upcoming env (clang, lldb) because there is no lldb tool
chain for Eclipse yet. But anyway the whole support and the advantage of
the indexer and the related navigation in the source code is so huge
that we will definitely continue and follow up on this.

And as Andre pointed out this is and can be fun and even the results
after a few hours were impressive.

If there are volunteers who have experience in plugin development for
Eclipse please join and help us to make this even more comfortable.

OpenOffice developers please try it out and I am sure you will be
impressed and it will help you a lot to find your way in the OpenOffice
code jungle. This will hopefully help to attract some new developers in
the future. gdb debugging should work in Eclipse, Xcode and of course MS
Dev Studio has great debugging features but the editing and navigating
in Eclipse is quite nice and really useful.

And keep in mind that we had the first results after 1 hr. Ok the
details and to make it more generic requires more time. Eclipse is for
sure not the only IDE where s

Re: [RELEASE]: new MacOS compiler used for the 64 bit tool chain requires a new baseline