Re: Jars for Report Builder: where to get them ?

[Pedro Giffuni]

Nevermind .. I found them.

On 01/14/17 11:05, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

Hi;

Anyone has the jars required by the report builder [1]?

I think we should upload them to a folder in ooo-extras.

Regards,

Pedro.

[1]
http://openoffice.2283327.n4.nabble.com/About-reportbuilder-source-code-td4672788.html



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Jars for Report Builder: where to get them ?

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

Anyone has the jars required by the report builder [1]?

I think we should upload them to a folder in ooo-extras.

Regards,

Pedro.

[1]
http://openoffice.2283327.n4.nabble.com/About-reportbuilder-source-code-td4672788.html

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Re: future of OpenOffice

[Pedro Giffuni]

Quoted from the posting from Simon Phipps dated 12 Jan 2017:
...


The Document Foundation takes much of the Apache OpenOffice AL2 licensed
software and rebases LO on it. This allows integration of OpenSymphony
code. Completely permissible under the AL2. They re-did the license of all
the source as MPL2 changing the headers. Some think that this is shady
although permitted. In effect this prevents LO updates from being
contributed back to AOO.


Ignoring the tricky wording, I should clarify that TDF has no power to 
"redo" any licensing. The attempt to re-license was evidently done by a 
non-lawyer and checking the git history you don't have to be a legal

genius to notice it.

I will go on and claim, without this being legal advice b/c IANAL, that 
the license situation of LO is unclear, rather risky and even very

likely to be unenforceable. So no, it is simply impossible for an
Apache project to take any significant code under such conditions.

Even within the ASF, where we have clear methodologies to manage the IP
consistently, the licensing was not completely clean until recently.

This said, end users don't really care much about licensing as
long as the code does what they need. The code in OpenOffice is not very 
nice to work with and, while I don't follow closely, I think they have 
been doing a tremendous effort to clean it up, they have passed their 
code through sanitizers and other practices that are really

important before doing more mature work. I suspect I will need an Office
suite for arm64 in the future so I may end up using it although not
developing it.

Just my $0.02, I don't care much about this thread.

Pedro.

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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: mabdul [mailto:mab...@eclipso.de] 

> > You are basically right, but let me give the following information.
> > 
> > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were 
> mainly experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> > 
> > See:
> > 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffi
> ce.org/de/the-team-de.html
> > 
> > But Apache made a front against this project and so it was 
> no chance. The only short-term result was "White Label 
> Office", see for example:
> > http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html
> > 
> > I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
> > http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html
> > 
> > But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of 
> Apache to recognize opportunities and bundle forces.
> > 
> > This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem 
> for OpenOffice. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > btw:
> > A project such as "Team OpenOffice" did not necessarily 
> need a commercial orientation (eg in Germany a gGmbH 
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinn%C3%BCtzige_GmbH one 
> possibility), but such a project needs the recognition of Apache.
> A bit more "neutral" information lived in the English Wikipedia (by an
> article of mine) before it was converted to a redirect:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White_Label_Office;
> oldid=549769989

Thank you very much for this important addition.


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[mabdul]

Hi,

On 14.01.2017 11:00, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> Hello, 
> 
>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com] 
> 
>> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
>>
>> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money 
>> for something
>> they need.
>> If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
>> Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a 
>> bug/enhancement,
>> if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.
> 
> 
>  
>> This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business 
>> within the ASF or
>> if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
>> If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as 
>> a legal form.
>> https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperative
>> s/european-cooperative-society_de
> 
> You are basically right, but let me give the following information.
> 
> Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly experienced 
> OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> 
> See:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffice.org/de/the-team-de.html
> 
> But Apache made a front against this project and so it was no chance. The 
> only short-term result was "White Label Office", see for example:
> http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html
> 
> I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
> http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html
> 
> But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of Apache to 
> recognize opportunities and bundle forces.
> 
> This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem for OpenOffice. 
> 
> 
> 
> btw:
> A project such as "Team OpenOffice" did not necessarily need a commercial 
> orientation (eg in Germany a gGmbH 
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinn%C3%BCtzige_GmbH one possibility), but 
> such a project needs the recognition of Apache.
A bit more "neutral" information lived in the English Wikipedia (by an
article of mine) before it was converted to a redirect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White_Label_Office=549769989


> Greetings,
> Jörg

Regards,

mabdul



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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[mabdul]

Hi esh,

On 14.01.2017 11:53, esh1907 wrote:
> No chance as long as Microsoft is a platinum sponsor of Apache.
> The best thing that can happen to wonderful OpenOffice is to ditch Apache
> for an independent commercial company.

Believe me: MS doesn't follow Apache OpenOffice any longer as they know
that in the next ~10 years OpenOffice cannot hurt MS. Moreover they have
switched to a subscription based model (Office365) latetly to secure
their userbase and even increase the earned money by monthly/yearly
subscription fees. ("mobile first, cloud first" is their main model now!)


mabdul





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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Patricia Shanahan]

We also need to split tasks out into those that primarily need 
OpenOffice user skills, and those that require digging deeply into the 
implementation code.


In the long term, I think I may be on the leading edge of a major future 
source of open software developers - retirees.




On 1/14/2017 12:24 AM, Peter Kovacs wrote:

We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.

Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money for something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a bug/enhancement,
if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.

This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business within the ASF or
if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as a legal form.
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperatives/european-cooperative-society_de

All the best
Peter

Raphael Bircher  schrieb am Sa., 14. Jan. 2017,
06:32:


Hi at all

If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in 2006,
we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
track down the work who is in our issue tracker.

But surprisingly we have still a very height download number. If you read
comments on social media you see, that many are really happy with the
programm. The problem is, tat this user simply are looked out from the
product development. The Enduser can only watch and pray.

While most bigger Apache Projects has a well working business model
behind, OpenOffice has nothing. In fact we never cared about it. I believe
it's rely time to change this. There are maybe at the moment no big
investors, but maybe more individuals who love the idea.

I know, we have to stick within the Apache rules, but this should be
possible. So let's collect ideas here.

Regards, Raphael

--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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Re: Copyleft vs Permissive

[esh1907]

A model of 100% volunteer based software project is futile.
Only a combination of payed workers and volunteers is viable.


On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

> On 11.01.2017 11:00, Dr. Michael Stehmann wrote:
>
>> Am 11.01.2017 um 09:44 schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>
>> For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
>>> writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
>>> have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
>>> not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
>>> anything that uses their licenses.
>>>
>> The difference between the Apache Licence and the licences, which are
>> promoted by the FSF, is the so called "Copyleft". The Apache licence has
>> no copyleft.
>>
>> But copyleft gives the programmer more and not less control, because
>> nobody can make a proprietary (non free) product of the code without the
>> permission of the copyright holder (programmer).
>>
> I do not think copyleft gives you more control. You omit your copy rights
> in favour of copy left.
> Multi Licens policies are only possible if your developer team agrees on
> this model right from the start.
> If you try to build one afterwards, I would expect at least difficulties,
> or even risks if your documentation on contributors is to sloppy.
>
>> That is why some supporters of copyleftless licence say, that these
>> licences are more free than licence containing a copyleft.
>>
>> That is a question, whether you are the user or the creator of the code.
>>
>> For an enduser of the code copyleft brings potentially more freedom.
>>
> Endusers do not care about license policy in general. See the closed
> source drivers in the Kernel. There was somewhat pressure to resolve it,
> but a lot of pressure not to sentence it.
> Also you can see in our Community that the Apache License is not a major
> topic to them. Functionality is the major point. I think it is even less
> important for users which license a software has then data security.
>
>> If you are a developer, using code under a copyleftless licence is much
>> easier. But if you are the programmer of the used code, you have more
>> control, what people do with your product.
>>
> I think the license model is much tied to your business modell. If you are
> able to build services around code, the protection of the copy left, makes
> you more secure on the market. Since no one can break out.
> If your model works directly with the Product, the flexibility of the
> Permissive license can be the stronger choice.
> I do not believe that a lot of people understand this. There is this Idea
> floating around copy left == communism, which I think is not true. It
> depends on the organisation of the community.
>
>> Kind regards
>> Michael
>>
> Thanks michael for your explanations. Was really interesting, even if I
> have another point of view :-D
>
> All the best
> Peter
>
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>

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[esh1907]

No chance as long as Microsoft is a platinum sponsor of Apache.
The best thing that can happen to wonderful OpenOffice is to ditch Apache
for an independent commercial company.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Raphael Bircher 
wrote:

> Hi at all
>
> If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in 2006,
> we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
> project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
> track down the work who is in our issue tracker.
>
> But surprisingly we have still a very height download number. If you read
> comments on social media you see, that many are really happy with the
> programm. The problem is, tat this user simply are looked out from the
> product development. The Enduser can only watch and pray.
>
> While most bigger Apache Projects has a well working business model
> behind, OpenOffice has nothing. In fact we never cared about it. I believe
> it's rely time to change this. There are maybe at the moment no big
> investors, but maybe more individuals who love the idea.
>
> I know, we have to stick within the Apache rules, but this should be
> possible. So let's collect ideas here.
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
> --
> Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch
>
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>
>

Re: future of OpenOffice

[esh1907]

-1 for ASF+TDF


On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 8:43 PM, suhail ansari 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My
> suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document
> foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software
> foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software
> foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one
> product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software
> products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF
> and the document foundation to work together.
>
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
>

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com] 

> > This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business 
> within the ASF  
> > or
> > if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
> 
> It definitely need a external instance.

In this case, it is inappropriate to discuss the subject here.

I personally think the topic belongs here and an external instance does not help
us because we have to push "OpenOffice" and not a product that is only based on
OpenOffice. The rights to "OpenOffice", however, holds Apache.


Greetings
Jörg


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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello, 

> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com] 

> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
> 
> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money 
> for something
> they need.
> If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
> Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a 
> bug/enhancement,
> if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.


 
> This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business 
> within the ASF or
> if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
> If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as 
> a legal form.
> https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperative
> s/european-cooperative-society_de

You are basically right, but let me give the following information.

Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly experienced 
OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.

See:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffice.org/de/the-team-de.html

But Apache made a front against this project and so it was no chance. The only 
short-term result was "White Label Office", see for example:
http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html

I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html

But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of Apache to recognize 
opportunities and bundle forces.

This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem for OpenOffice. 



btw:
A project such as "Team OpenOffice" did not necessarily need a commercial 
orientation (eg in Germany a gGmbH 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinn%C3%BCtzige_GmbH one possibility), but 
such a project needs the recognition of Apache.



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Raphael Bircher]

Am .01.2017, 09:24 Uhr, schrieb Peter Kovacs :


We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.

Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money for  
something

they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a  
bug/enhancement,

if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.


I will ask, on community, how other Apache projects deal with this  
problem. I have some similar things in mind.




This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business within the ASF  
or

if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.


It definitely need a external instance.

If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as a legal  
form.

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperatives/european-cooperative-society_de

All the best
Peter

Raphael Bircher  schrieb am Sa., 14. Jan. 2017,
06:32:


Hi at all

If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in  
2006,

we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
track down the work who is in our issue tracker.

But surprisingly we have still a very height download number. If you  
read

comments on social media you see, that many are really happy with the
programm. The problem is, tat this user simply are looked out from the
product development. The Enduser can only watch and pray.

While most bigger Apache Projects has a well working business model
behind, OpenOffice has nothing. In fact we never cared about it. I  
believe

it's rely time to change this. There are maybe at the moment no big
investors, but maybe more individuals who love the idea.

I know, we have to stick within the Apache rules, but this should be
possible. So let's collect ideas here.

Regards, Raphael

--
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Re: Copyleft vs Permissive

[Peter Kovacs]

Maybe market based is the wrong expression. How about market oriented...?

# We are more innovative!
# Have more features!
# We have faster release cycles!
# We are no 1 open Source Office suite.

They are not community focused arguments, not open source focused arguments.

All the Best
Peter

Dr. Michael Stehmann  schrieb am Sa., 14.
Jan. 2017, 08:52:

> Am 14.01.2017 um 00:55 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> >
>
> > You see that on the LO vs. OO discussion. Most of the LO argument are
> > market based one. If you think outside the market its all not an issue.
> > What Reamains is the strength of Open source as such.
> > In my eyes we are in a super strong position, as long as we have a
> > commiter base that work for the greater good. And I am very convinced on
> > the Open Office future.
>
> The question is, what "market based" mean.
>
> If it means, that we take care of the users needs and wishes, it is a
> good attitude. Observing the user experience and their work flows is
> very usefull for example.
>
> In the Free Software community some developers make good code, which is
> useable only by geeks. And it is also not really usefull to create the
> 1th editor or the 1000th Linux distribution.
>
> If "market based" means to look how to earn the best profit, it might be
> userunfriendly.
>
> Kind regards
> Michael
>
>
>
> --

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Re: Copyleft vs Permissive

[Peter Kovacs]

Dave Fisher  schrieb am Sa., 14. Jan. 2017, 04:56:

> Hi -
>
> If Oracle or IBM thought they had any additional advantage with Apache
> OpenOffice development then the history of this project would differ.
>
Obviously however you do not know what their reasons for the decision is.
They could have calculated that buying ms office is cheaper or more viable.
Incompatibility is still a major issue.

But that's not my point. You can exchange the companies with whatever you
like. The situation in general remains the same.
-- 

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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Peter Kovacs]

We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.

Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money for something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a bug/enhancement,
if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.

This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business within the ASF or
if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as a legal form.
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperatives/european-cooperative-society_de

All the best
Peter

Raphael Bircher  schrieb am Sa., 14. Jan. 2017,
06:32:

> Hi at all
>
> If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in 2006,
> we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
> project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
> track down the work who is in our issue tracker.
>
> But surprisingly we have still a very height download number. If you read
> comments on social media you see, that many are really happy with the
> programm. The problem is, tat this user simply are looked out from the
> product development. The Enduser can only watch and pray.
>
> While most bigger Apache Projects has a well working business model
> behind, OpenOffice has nothing. In fact we never cared about it. I believe
> it's rely time to change this. There are maybe at the moment no big
> investors, but maybe more individuals who love the idea.
>
> I know, we have to stick within the Apache rules, but this should be
> possible. So let's collect ideas here.
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
> --
> Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> --

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werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
verhandeln.