Re: [PROPOSAL] Managing branches for future releases

[esh1907]

We all wish for more frequent, more major releases. 4.1.x is just a
number...
No one will report you to the International Software Police if the next
release will be 4.1.5 and have ten times more bug fixes and a dozen new
features :)

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
wrote:

>
>
> We all wish 4.1.4 to be the last 4.1.x release.
>
>

Re: Bugzilla information

[esh1907]

The way to treat such people:
1. Change our software license so any code sharing between us and them
becomes impossible.
2. Arrange legally for the brand name they so desire to be forever
unavailable even if our project will be terminated in the future.
3. Ignore them.

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Matthias Seidel  wrote:

> I sometimes wonder if these people monitoring our mailing list don't
> have a real life...
>
> I know such zealots for almost 30 years now.
> They do not understand that people are free to do what they want and to
> use what they want.
>
> Matthias
>
>
> Am 21.05.2017 um 11:13 schrieb Marcus:
> > Am 20.05.2017 um 21:35 schrieb Meh:
> >> Hey I saw the bugzilla thread and thought I'd share some info;
> >
> > another attempt to tell a story that only specific people want to
> > know. How boring.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: Bugzilla

[esh1907]

Many companies were affected in the recent cyber attack.
It shouldn't be hard to find a company sick of Microsoft...
Why not Deutsche Bahn or Renault for example?

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Hagar Delest 
wrote:


> The only one I would see is Canonical. But i still don't understand why
> they chose LibO.
> What other company would invest money in a MS Office competitor???
>
> So I'm not very optimistic.
> Hopefully someone has brighter clues.
>
> Hagar
>
>
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>
>

Re: Bugzilla

[esh1907]

About the locate (from the wayback machine):
https://web.archive.org/web/20040610062016/http://projects.openoffice.org:80/accepted.html

About the convince:
IMHO a personal meeting with a German volunteer is best.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:


> If you can see a way to make this happen, it would be very helpful. Even
> having someone familiar with the source code available as a consultant
> would help.
>
>
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>
>

Re: Bugzilla

[esh1907]

Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?
Perhaps instead of votes users can offer monetary compensation for solving
bugs (many users offering a tiny sum each can result in a reasonable
incentive)?
What about merging in developers from other projects like Gnumeric or
AbiWord?
For sure we should strive to be unique. No point in having two LibO...

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 4:11 PM, Hagar Delest 
wrote:

> Le 20/05/2017 à 12:10, Peter Kovacs a écrit :
>
>> Our best recruitment base is our user base. The more we use them the
>> tighter the link between user and developer gets, the more probable it is
>> we get people.
>> Community feeling is a strong motivator for doing the right thing.
>>
> Well, remember that the user base of applications like AOO is not the same
> as for other more geek-oriented application in OpenSource field. We face
> mostly basic users who wants things done at no cost and with equivalent
> features to MS Office ones for example. They don't have any knowledge nor
> will to engage very far.
> According to what we see in the forum, it's rather difficult to even make
> them file a bug report.
>
> And people we have, we lack imho skill. And this we need to build. We need
>> to open ways into open office development. Set starting points with view
>> little knowledge and need to slowly guide the volunteers to the deeper end
>> of our projects.
>>
>> Currently we don't have roads like I described above, we only have a fast
>> and frightening jungle.
>>
> Personally, I've very little knowledge of Basic macros (I sometimes
> help/improve macros in the forum) and I'm a fan of AOO but doing code (I
> mean for development) is not in my intention at all, that's too huge a step.
> So, yes, quite a frightening jungle.
> Let's face it: LibO seems to be doing better to get devs (that's how I see
> it from the outside, I don't know how true it is in reality). So what is
> the AOO plan exactly? I guess that committers want to invest their time in
> a project that has a future so that their own work can last in that project.
> Should AOO be focused on stability and robustness (and less on new
> features)? Or should it try to keep up with LibO (at least by implementing
> features not that hard to code and are considered must have in LibO)?...
>
> Getting users to evaluate what is a bug and what is not would be in my
>> eyes a huge step forward.
>>
> This is something we do in the forum. We help them investigate and we urge
> them to file a report when we can confirm there is indeed a bug (some forum
> volunteers even file the bug themselves when the user is not willing).
>
> Of course the next step would be solving them. But for that we can vote,
>> measure or find other ways to promote them
>>
> As said in my other message, votes are cast in bugzilla. However, in the
> forum we did see a clear trend: in the past, users bothered to subscribe
> bugzilla to vote. They don't anymore.  They clearly switch to something
> else (be it LibO or MS Office).
>
> Maybe slicing them up in micro jobs would work for some.
>> Setting up a bazaar another.
>>
>> I would like to take one step after another.
>> And only do things we think that they work with people we have.
>> Because I do believe in that we need to do things in order that people
>> join.
>>
> For sure.
> What people do see is that there is quite few development and little bug
> solving. It does not help to restore trust in the project.
> But again, look at this list: https://forum.openoffice.org/e
> n/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6=17677#p81363
> I raised this issue several times on this list and still nothing. Think of
> how users talk about AOO after having lost files that way.
> I do know that it is not an easy one but it is the kind of bug that
> definitively damages AOO reputation. Finding the root cause and fixing it
> (or changing the save process to avoid it) would be enough to release a new
> major version. That would send a clear message that the community listen to
> the users.
> For the record, I don't have any skills to help devs. However, we spent
> some time with forum volunteers trying to find a hint, but nothing
> interesting so far.
>
> All the best
>> Peter
>>
> +1.
> Hagar
>
>
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>
>

Re: Bugzilla

[esh1907]

I can give it a try (please bear in mind I read here out of curiosity, I'm
not a developer).

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:


> @esh1907:
> Are you ready to actually help here?
>
> Marcus
>
>
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>
>

Re: Bugzilla

[esh1907]

IMHO good idea.
Our suite should have a "Report a Bug" in Help menu under "About
OpenOffice".
The average user shouldn't reach a cumbersome platform like Bugzilla to
report a bug.


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Maybe this has been discussed already.
> But how about setting up some volunteer process from support request to bug
> report.
>
> Instead of having people write wildly in our tech tracker we organize or
> search the forum for bugs.
> I think it might lead to more satisfaction for every one if we setup a
> "support" process.
> Maybe we can setup some tools to make the transition from a support thread
> into a bug really easy for a supporter who is a while with us
>
> I don't know I feel like we close 3 support requst for 1 issue. And I
> wonder if we can setup a better strategy.
>
> It is a general idea. Nothing that we can nor should do quickly and hasty.
>
> What's your thought on this?
>
> All the best
> Peter
> --
>
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>

Re: OpenOffice

[esh1907]

But for releases and interesting stuff, people are needed ("chicken or the
egg")...

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 7:51 PM, Peter Kovacs 
wrote:

> Nah. That will not attract people.
> Releases and interesting stuff going on will.
>
> Names are sound and smoke...
> Old truth in IT.
> Big Data Buzzword has been invented in 1990...
>
> All the Best
> Peter
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: OpenOffice

[esh1907]

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

>
> We are openly decleared dead.
> Peter
>
> Why not keep the Open Office rights (so the TDF can not use them), but
rename the project - perhaps a new name will resurrect the project?

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[esh1907]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Hagar Delest 
wrote:


> So basically, what is the user base? Who should AOO focus on? For a
> company I doubt the price of MS Office is really a problem (they negotiate
> fees for sure). Since documents are mostly shared in .docx/.xlsx formats,
> why bother with applications like AOO/LO that are not fully compatible? Is
> there any big player willing to invest in something to compete with MS
> Office to avoid buying it? Doesn't seem very likely


Why bother? because we don't want in the future .docy/.xlsy and then
.docz/.xlsz ...
How do you know there is no big player willing to invest?


> So AOO is left with households, perhaps very very small companies and
> education sector. I think that AOO should be the simple choice for schools.
> It should offer the peace of mind with no license issue, no need of a
> package full of features not really needed but sold efficiently by MS. No
> need of permanent internet access, just install it locally.
> It should say: here is a rock solid application that can prepare
> pupils/student to office software. It is not MS Office but there are enough
> similarities to make it a good tool to learn. Like your driving license:
> you learn on a car but you can buy something (very) different. You just
> have to adapt.
> If there is something to make clear, it is the effort needed to adapt from
> AOO to MS Office. I'm not saying it should be a clone but just make the
> transition as smooth as possible, user point of view.
>
>
If you think little of AOO - it will be little...


>
> Hagar
> PS: can't bear teachers asking my kids to provide homeworks in .docx/.xlsx.
>
>
Instead of complaining, why not change that?

>
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>
>

Re: Copyleft vs Permissive

[esh1907]

A model of 100% volunteer based software project is futile.
Only a combination of payed workers and volunteers is viable.


On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:

> On 11.01.2017 11:00, Dr. Michael Stehmann wrote:
>
>> Am 11.01.2017 um 09:44 schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>
>> For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
>>> writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
>>> have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
>>> not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
>>> anything that uses their licenses.
>>>
>> The difference between the Apache Licence and the licences, which are
>> promoted by the FSF, is the so called "Copyleft". The Apache licence has
>> no copyleft.
>>
>> But copyleft gives the programmer more and not less control, because
>> nobody can make a proprietary (non free) product of the code without the
>> permission of the copyright holder (programmer).
>>
> I do not think copyleft gives you more control. You omit your copy rights
> in favour of copy left.
> Multi Licens policies are only possible if your developer team agrees on
> this model right from the start.
> If you try to build one afterwards, I would expect at least difficulties,
> or even risks if your documentation on contributors is to sloppy.
>
>> That is why some supporters of copyleftless licence say, that these
>> licences are more free than licence containing a copyleft.
>>
>> That is a question, whether you are the user or the creator of the code.
>>
>> For an enduser of the code copyleft brings potentially more freedom.
>>
> Endusers do not care about license policy in general. See the closed
> source drivers in the Kernel. There was somewhat pressure to resolve it,
> but a lot of pressure not to sentence it.
> Also you can see in our Community that the Apache License is not a major
> topic to them. Functionality is the major point. I think it is even less
> important for users which license a software has then data security.
>
>> If you are a developer, using code under a copyleftless licence is much
>> easier. But if you are the programmer of the used code, you have more
>> control, what people do with your product.
>>
> I think the license model is much tied to your business modell. If you are
> able to build services around code, the protection of the copy left, makes
> you more secure on the market. Since no one can break out.
> If your model works directly with the Product, the flexibility of the
> Permissive license can be the stronger choice.
> I do not believe that a lot of people understand this. There is this Idea
> floating around copy left == communism, which I think is not true. It
> depends on the organisation of the community.
>
>> Kind regards
>> Michael
>>
> Thanks michael for your explanations. Was really interesting, even if I
> have another point of view :-D
>
> All the best
> Peter
>
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>
>

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[esh1907]

No chance as long as Microsoft is a platinum sponsor of Apache.
The best thing that can happen to wonderful OpenOffice is to ditch Apache
for an independent commercial company.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Raphael Bircher 
wrote:

> Hi at all
>
> If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in 2006,
> we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
> project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
> track down the work who is in our issue tracker.
>
> But surprisingly we have still a very height download number. If you read
> comments on social media you see, that many are really happy with the
> programm. The problem is, tat this user simply are looked out from the
> product development. The Enduser can only watch and pray.
>
> While most bigger Apache Projects has a well working business model
> behind, OpenOffice has nothing. In fact we never cared about it. I believe
> it's rely time to change this. There are maybe at the moment no big
> investors, but maybe more individuals who love the idea.
>
> I know, we have to stick within the Apache rules, but this should be
> possible. So let's collect ideas here.
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
> --
> Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch
>
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>

Re: future of OpenOffice

[esh1907]

-1 for ASF+TDF


On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 8:43 PM, suhail ansari 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My
> suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document
> foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software
> foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software
> foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one
> product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software
> products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF
> and the document foundation to work together.
>
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
>