[Operator] [ANNOUNCE] Apache Solr Operator v0.8.0 released

[Jason Gerlowski]

The Apache Solr PMC is pleased to announce the release of the Apache
Solr Operator v0.8.0.

The Apache Solr Operator is a safe and easy way of managing a Solr
ecosystem in Kubernetes.

This release contains numerous bug fixes, optimizations, and
improvements, some of which are highlighted below. The release is
available for immediate download at:

  

### Solr Operator v0.8.0 Release Highlights:

* The minimum supported version of Solr has been set to Solr 8.11
* The minimum Kubernetes version supported is now v1.22
* Managed scale up and scale down are now supported for SolrClouds.
* By default, when scaling down a SolrCloud, replicas will be
migrated off Pods before they are deleted.
* By default, when scaling up a SolrCloud, replicas will be
balanced across all Pods after the SolrCloud has been scaled up. (Only
supported for Solr 9.3+)
* SSL bugs with Solr 9 have been fixed, and v0.8.0 will successfully
support SSL for Solr 8.11 and 9.4+
* Solr 8.11 features are now supported by default, such as
maxBooleanClauses, metrics disabling, health endpoint for
readinessCheck
* Keystore/Truststore passwords can be explicitly set in the SolrCloud
CRD for mountedDir SSL. This enables the use of the CertManager CSI
Driver with Solr.
* Rolling Updates for SolrClouds using ephemeral storage are now safer
and replicas are balanced at the end of the operation to ensure
optimal resource utilization.
* Replica balancing is only supported when Solr 9.3+ is used.

A summary of important changes is published in the documentation at:

  

For the most exhaustive list, see the change log on ArtifactHub or
view the git history in the solr-operator repo.

  


  

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Re: Apache Projects and Discussion Forums

[David Mackey]

Thanks for resurrecting this topic David!

After our discussions at the June meetup I had intended to create an
account with Discourse for the Solr project using their free for open
source hosting . Unfortunately, I became ill
for an extended period and that endeavor went on the back-burner. I'm
fairly recovered now and still interested in helping, if desired.

Initially, I was going to set up the account using my email address and
then transfer it to an official Solr address once it had been set up. In
light of the universe's recent reminder of my mortality I would want to see
it start off using an official email address. If someone with an official
account wants to create the account and add me as an admin once it is set
up, I'm happy to assist. Or if there is a generic account I can be given
access to, I'm happy to perform the setup myself.

I liked your idea of running the two systems in parallel and syncing
between them. I spent some time today researching how this could be
accomplished and from what I've seen it appears theoretically possible but
practically quite difficult. Folks have expressed interest in doing it but
I found no successful implementations.

What is fairly straightforward is:

1. Importing

the existing mailing list archives
2. Setting up an ongoing, read-only sync

of new mailing list messages to Discourse.

This reduces some fragmentation - forum users would be aware of all
discussions - but mailing list users would miss out on forum messages.

Alternatively, we could make a hard cut over to Discourse, setting
us...@solr.apache.org to be ingested by Discourse. Along with an import of
all the existing messages this would ensure that all discussions were
occurring through a single channel. We'd have to use the mailing list mode
 to force
Discourse to send all the messages to all subscribers if we wanted to
imitate the mailing list behavior.

This could be done for a short period but I'd recommend against doing it
long-term as it recreates one of the main weaknesses of mailing lists - a
lack of scalability. Mailing lists work well with small groups but as the
size of the group increases the volume of messages increases until it
becomes impossible to manage. Users could still enable mailing list mode
for their personal accounts if they desired to receive all the messages
long-term.

Jan, regarding your suggestion that we not rule GitHub Discussions out -
I'm not strongly opposed to GHD. I agree that most Solr users are likely
developers but I also hope that this won't always be the case and that is
why I haven't been wholeheartedly in favor of GHD. I feel like GHD would
limit Solr long-term or would force another migration as Solr grew beyond
its developer-centric roots.




On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 2:57 AM Jan Høydahl  wrote:

>
> > GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely, exclude most,
> non-dev, users.
>
> Last time I checked, (direct) users of Solr were developers. Not
> necessarily solr or java devs but tech people integrating or operating solr.
>
> So I’d not exclude GH discussions. The barrier to joining the solr-user
> list discussions is higher than visiting our GH page and browsing
> discussions. How many already have a GH account vs a discourse account? But
> I agree we could have several channels.
>
> Jan Høydahl
>
> > 17. okt. 2023 kl. 07:27 skrev David Smiley :
> >
> > GitHub is developer-centric and as such would likely,
> > exclude most, non-dev, users.
>

Re: [solr] branch main updated: More test cases for Coordinator node role (#1782)

[Chris Hostetter]

: It's a shame to see that we seem to maybe need to use the underlying Apache
: HttpClient in tests thanks to the presence of SSL randomization.  Hossman,
: do you have ideas on how we could not have such a dependency?

Hmmm... that feels like a miss caracterization of the situation?

SSL randomization doesn't mean tests (that need a direct HTTP connection) 
"need" to use Apache HttpClient -- it just means tests (that need a direct 
HTTP connection) need to use *SOME* sort of HTTP client configured with 
the correct trust store, key store, clientAuth settings, etc...

The test framework -- and more to the point: HttpSolrClient -- make it 
trivial to get an Apache HttpClient that is already correctly configured 
acording to the test randomization.  So that's what devs use when writting 
tests.

If there was another way for devs to get some other other HTTP client impl 
that was correctly configured, and just as easy to use as an Apache 
HttpClient, then we could probably refactor Apache HttpClient out of all 
the tests.


-Hoss

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Re: [Operator] [VOTE] Release the Solr Operator v0.8.0 RC1

[Jason Gerlowski]

It's been >72h since the vote was initiated and the result is:

+1  5  (3 binding)
 0  0
-1  0

This vote has PASSED



Thanks to everyone for voting; I'll start working on next steps!

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 1:30 AM Arrieta, Alejandro
 wrote:
>
> Hello Team,
>
> +1 non-binding
>
> ...
> Local end-to-end cluster test successfully run!
>
>
>
> 
> Successfully smoke tested the Solr Operator v0.8.0!
>
> Kind Regards,
> Alejandro Arrieta
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 11:53 PM Mark Miller  wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Successfully smoke tested the Solr Operator v0.8.0!
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 2:37 PM Jason Gerlowski 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Please vote for release candidate 1 for the Solr Operator v0.8.0
> > >
> > > The artifacts can be downloaded from:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/solr/solr-operator/solr-operator-v0.8.0-RC1-revf2c27102a7e9056c6fe7d8cea6c97bac5a47fcc0
> > >
> > > You can run the full smoke tester, with instructions below.
> > > However, it is also encouraged to go and use the artifacts yourself in
> > > a test Kubernetes cluster.
> > > The smoke tester does not require you to download or install the RC
> > > artifacts before running.
> > > If you plan on just running the smoke tests, then ignore all other
> > > instructions.
> > >
> > > The artifacts are laid out in the following way:
> > >   * solr-operator-v0.8.0.tgz - Contains the source release
> > >   * crds/ - Contains the CRD files
> > >   * helm-charts/ - Contains the Helm release packages
> > >
> > > The RC Docker image can be found at:
> > >   apache/solr-operator:v0.8.0-rc1
> > >
> > > The RC Helm repo can be added with:
> > >   helm repo add apache-solr-rc
> > >
> > >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/solr/solr-operator/solr-operator-v0.8.0-RC1-revf2c27102a7e9056c6fe7d8cea6c97bac5a47fcc0/helm-charts
> > >
> > > You can install the RC Solr Operator and Solr CRDs and an example Solr
> > > Cloud with:
> > >   curl -sL0 "https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/solr/KEYS"; |
> > > gpg --import --quiet
> > >   # This will export your public keys into a format that helm can
> > > understand.
> > >   # Skip verification by removing "--verify" in the helm command below.
> > >   if ! (gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring=~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
> > > --list-keys "60392455"); then gpg --export >~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg; fi
> > >   kubectl create -f
> > >
> > >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/solr/solr-operator/solr-operator-v0.8.0-RC1-revf2c27102a7e9056c6fe7d8cea6c97bac5a47fcc0/crds/all-with-dependencies.yaml
> > > || \
> > > kubectl replace -f
> > >
> > >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/solr/solr-operator/solr-operator-v0.8.0-RC1-revf2c27102a7e9056c6fe7d8cea6c97bac5a47fcc0/crds/all-with-dependencies.yaml
> > >   helm install --verify solr-operator apache-solr-rc/solr-operator
> > > --set image.tag=v0.8.0-rc1
> > >   helm install --verify example apache-solr-rc/solr
> > >
> > > You can run the full smoke tester directly with this command: (First
> > > checkout the release-0.8 branch of the solr-operator)
> > >
> > > # First clear your go-mod cache to make sure old cache entries don't
> > > cause smoke test failures
> > > make mod-clean
> > > ./hack/release/smoke_test/smoke_test.sh -v "v0.8.0" -s "f2c2710" -i
> > > "apache/solr-operator:v0.8.0-rc1" -g "60392455" \
> > > -l '
> > >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/solr/solr-operator/solr-operator-v0.8.0-RC1-revf2c27102a7e9056c6fe7d8cea6c97bac5a47fcc0
> > > '
> > >
> > > If you want to run the smoke test with a specific version of
> > > kubernetes, use the -k option with a full version tag. (e.g. -k
> > > v1.19.3)
> > > If you want to run the smoke test with a custom version of solr, use
> > > the -t option with an official Solr image version. (e.g. -t 8.10.0)
> > >   However, for this smoke test, you must use a solr version that
> > > supports incremental backups. (i.e. 8.9+)
> > >
> > > Make sure you have the following installed before running the smoke test:
> > >   - Docker (Give it enough memory and CPU to run ~12 containers, 3 of
> > > which are Solr nodes)
> > > More information on required resources can be found here:
> > >
> > https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/docs/user/quick-start/#settings-for-docker-desktop
> > >   - Go 1.20
> > >   - Kubectl
> > >   - GnuPG
> > >   - Helm v3.4.0+
> > >   - Kustomize (v4.0.0+) This will be installed for you, but NOT
> > > upgraded if a lower version is already installed.
> > >   - yq
> > >   - jq
> > >   - coreutils (if using Mac OS)
> > >
> > > The vote will be open for at least 72 hours i.e. until 2023-10-19 20:00
> > > UTC.
> > >
> > > [ ] +1  approve
> > > [ ] +0  no opinion
> > > [ ] -1  disapprove (and reason why)
> > >
> > > Here is my +1
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@solr.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@solr.apache.org
> > >
> > 

Re: [DISCUSS] Community Virtual Meetup, October 2023

[Jason Gerlowski]

> should I put the conference link to the wiki before the day of the conference?

I would, yep.  For past meetings, I generally shared the link there as
soon as I had one, and we haven't had any issues.  But if you're
worried about it and want to wait until the 26th to share, that's also
fine.

Best,

Jason

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:41 AM Arrieta, Alejandro
 wrote:
>
> Hello Team,
>
> Updated the Solr Wiki.
> Joined/created a meetup account.
> Posted on Linkedin:
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alejandro-arrieta_solr-apachesolr-opensource-activity-7121032862354530304-tSiV
> Posted on Twitter/X: https://x.com/searchistheway/status/1715270164428530142
> Advertising the meetup with 6-7 days in advance.
>
> Question: should I put the conference link to the wiki before the day of
> the conference?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Alejandro Arrieta
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 10:57 AM Jason Gerlowski 
> wrote:
>
> > > Please the meetup group owner can create the meetup and zoom/meet link,
> > so we can start sharing about the meetup on social media?
> >
> > Created, see below!  (Don't forget to put these on the Confluence
> > "Meeting Notes" page when you get a chance)
> >
> > Meet link: https://meet.google.com/vov-zirs-mno
> >
> > Meetup.com event:
> >
> > https://www.meetup.com/apache-solr-virtual-community-meetups/events/296835049
> > (If you organize again in the future and you create a Meetup.com
> > account, we can give you the required permissions to create this
> > yourself next time.)
> >
> > Thanks again Alejandro!
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 9:25 AM Alessandro Benedetti
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll be travelling to the Middle East (it should be 19:00 where I'll be),
> > > I'll try to attend!
> > >
> > > The idea of a competition is a cool one, I'm not a fan of rushing stuff
> > and
> > > I'm not sure how much time we should allocate to such an activity, I
> > > suspect half an hour will not produce anything useful.
> > > But I'm definitely happy to see this as a separate new activity!
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> > >
> > > e-mail: a.benede...@sease.io
> > >
> > >
> > > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> > >
> > > Website: Sease.io 
> > > LinkedIn  | Twitter
> > >  | Youtube
> > >  | Github
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 14:22, Arrieta, Alejandro <
> > > aarri...@perrinsoftware.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Team,
> > > >
> > > > Option A:
> > > > Thursday, Oct  26th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > > had the most/all votes so we have date and time.
> > > >
> > > > Please the meetup group owner can create the meetup and zoom/meet
> > link, so
> > > > we can start sharing about the meetup on social media?
> > > >
> > > > Solr Wiki meetup link:
> > > >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=272927807
> > > >
> > > > Note: I created the newsletter as meeting notes and they appear on the
> > list
> > > > of meetups, I will fix this later today. First time using Solr Wiki.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Alejandro Arrieta
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:21 AM Jason Gerlowski  > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for volunteering Alejandro.  Option 1 works for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ping me here or on Slack if you run into any permission issues (in
> > > > > Confluence, Meetup.com, etc.) getting things setup for the meetup;
> > > > > happy to help!
> > > > >
> > > > > > eating your own dogfood kind of competitions
> > > > >
> > > > > I really like the idea!  Though I agree with David that it seems like
> > > > > something that maybe merits its own event.  Unless the actual
> > > > > challenge part is asynchronous/offline?  That'd maybe be a bit less
> > > > > social/interactive, but it would help us fit the idea into the
> > current
> > > > > monthly meetup, if that's the goal.  Anyway, definitely a fun idea
> > > > > worth pursuing!  Maybe spin off a separate thread to discuss, Ishan?
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jason
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 12:43 AM David Smiley <
> > david.w.smi...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I prefer the 26th (Thursday) as well.
> > > > > > ~ David
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 11:06 AM Arrieta, Alejandro <
> > > > > > aarri...@perrinsoftware.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Team,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) pick me
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) proposed dates/time
> > > > > > > Thursday, Oct  26th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > Friday, Oct  27th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > > > > > To have at least one week to p

Re: Rerank / rewritten queries never get cached in queryResultCache?

[Alessandro Benedetti]

Added a review and started the checks!
--
*Alessandro Benedetti*
Director @ Sease Ltd.
*Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
*Apache Solr PMC Member*

e-mail: a.benede...@sease.io


*Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
Consulting | Training | Open Source

Website: Sease.io 
LinkedIn  | Twitter
 | Youtube
 | Github



On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 14:55, Doug Turnbull
 wrote:

> Created a Jira, and sent in a PR to LTR
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-17037
> https://github.com/apache/solr/pull/2022
>
> 🙏
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 4:45 PM Doug Turnbull  >
> wrote:
>
> > My google-fu got better -- FWIW This looks like an issue fixed in the
> > normal rerank query code, but not in LTR, which is a different query
> parser
> > / query path?
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7689
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 4:03 PM Doug Turnbull <
> douglas.turnb...@reddit.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm noticing an issue where rerank queries never appear to enter the
> Solr
> >> queryResultCache
> >>
> >> You can notice this, as a user, by simply repeating requests to a node.
> >> You'll get an instantaneous response repeating most Solr queries.
> However,
> >> repeating anything with rq= added, each response takes about the same
> >> amount of time.
> >>
> >> I dug into this some in a debugger, and created a test (in LTR) to
> >> recreate this
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/solr/compare/main...softwaredoug:solr:no-rerank-caching?expand=1
> >>
> >> We do a lookup using a NON rewritten version of the query, here
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/solr/blob/main/solr/core/src/java/org/apache/solr/search/SolrIndexSearcher.java#L1561
> >>
> >> Later, prior to executing the query, Lucene's search method performs a
> >> rewrite:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/main/lucene/core/src/java/org/apache/lucene/search/IndexSearcher.java#L514
> >>
> >> This causes a rerank query (like LTR's) to rewrite its main query,
> saving
> >> it internally:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/solr/blob/main/solr/core/src/java/org/apache/solr/search/AbstractReRankQuery.java#L100
> >>
> >> Then this is what's put into the cache
> >>
> >> So later on, when the same query comes in, in its non-rewritten form,
> its
> >> never seen in the cache
> >>
> >> Am I missing something? It would appear that any query where its child
> >> queries get rewritten would never get cached by Solr?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Doug
> >>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Community Virtual Meetup, October 2023

[Arrieta, Alejandro]

Hello Team,

Updated the Solr Wiki.
Joined/created a meetup account.
Posted on Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alejandro-arrieta_solr-apachesolr-opensource-activity-7121032862354530304-tSiV
Posted on Twitter/X: https://x.com/searchistheway/status/1715270164428530142
Advertising the meetup with 6-7 days in advance.

Question: should I put the conference link to the wiki before the day of
the conference?

Kind Regards,
Alejandro Arrieta

On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 10:57 AM Jason Gerlowski 
wrote:

> > Please the meetup group owner can create the meetup and zoom/meet link,
> so we can start sharing about the meetup on social media?
>
> Created, see below!  (Don't forget to put these on the Confluence
> "Meeting Notes" page when you get a chance)
>
> Meet link: https://meet.google.com/vov-zirs-mno
>
> Meetup.com event:
>
> https://www.meetup.com/apache-solr-virtual-community-meetups/events/296835049
> (If you organize again in the future and you create a Meetup.com
> account, we can give you the required permissions to create this
> yourself next time.)
>
> Thanks again Alejandro!
>
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 9:25 AM Alessandro Benedetti
>  wrote:
> >
> > I'll be travelling to the Middle East (it should be 19:00 where I'll be),
> > I'll try to attend!
> >
> > The idea of a competition is a cool one, I'm not a fan of rushing stuff
> and
> > I'm not sure how much time we should allocate to such an activity, I
> > suspect half an hour will not produce anything useful.
> > But I'm definitely happy to see this as a separate new activity!
> >
> > --
> > *Alessandro Benedetti*
> > Director @ Sease Ltd.
> > *Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
> > *Apache Solr PMC Member*
> >
> > e-mail: a.benede...@sease.io
> >
> >
> > *Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
> > Consulting | Training | Open Source
> >
> > Website: Sease.io 
> > LinkedIn  | Twitter
> >  | Youtube
> >  | Github
> > 
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 at 14:22, Arrieta, Alejandro <
> > aarri...@perrinsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Team,
> > >
> > > Option A:
> > > Thursday, Oct  26th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > had the most/all votes so we have date and time.
> > >
> > > Please the meetup group owner can create the meetup and zoom/meet
> link, so
> > > we can start sharing about the meetup on social media?
> > >
> > > Solr Wiki meetup link:
> > >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=272927807
> > >
> > > Note: I created the newsletter as meeting notes and they appear on the
> list
> > > of meetups, I will fix this later today. First time using Solr Wiki.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Alejandro Arrieta
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:21 AM Jason Gerlowski  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for volunteering Alejandro.  Option 1 works for me.
> > > >
> > > > Ping me here or on Slack if you run into any permission issues (in
> > > > Confluence, Meetup.com, etc.) getting things setup for the meetup;
> > > > happy to help!
> > > >
> > > > > eating your own dogfood kind of competitions
> > > >
> > > > I really like the idea!  Though I agree with David that it seems like
> > > > something that maybe merits its own event.  Unless the actual
> > > > challenge part is asynchronous/offline?  That'd maybe be a bit less
> > > > social/interactive, but it would help us fit the idea into the
> current
> > > > monthly meetup, if that's the goal.  Anyway, definitely a fun idea
> > > > worth pursuing!  Maybe spin off a separate thread to discuss, Ishan?
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 12:43 AM David Smiley <
> david.w.smi...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I prefer the 26th (Thursday) as well.
> > > > > ~ David
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 11:06 AM Arrieta, Alejandro <
> > > > > aarri...@perrinsoftware.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Team,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) pick me
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) proposed dates/time
> > > > > > Thursday, Oct  26th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > Friday, Oct  27th, 9 AM Pacific/12PM US East
> > > > > > To have at least one week to promote the event.
> > > > > > The vote should end Wednesday, Oct 18th, 11:59 PM Pacific, to
> publish
> > > > the
> > > > > > meetup link on Thursday, Oct 19th.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > Alejandro Arrieta
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 9:40 AM Jason Gerlowski <
> > > gerlowsk...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's time once again to start thinking ahead to our Virtual
> Meetup
> > > > for
> > > > > > > October.  As always, there's two main questions to answer in
> terms
> > > of
> > > > > > > planning:
> > > > > > >
> > >