Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
> > I'd say this qualifies for a move to config.h. > > I might be back later with a patch for that. > > Umm, no. "If you want to use st with x, y, z programs, set this to > \r, if you want to use a, b, c programs, set \n" is a terrible idea. > > Best to figure out what is more correct, do that, and patch any > applications that do things the wrong way. This is the reason why st is writing '\r', because is the code that is generated when you press return.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
One of the main suckless devs Uriel did commit suicide not long ago. Perhaps people here could refrain from saying "kill yourself", out of respect to him. Or did he talk that way also? Did the same people spit the dummy, when dwm was ported to Windoze? There are already tolerable terminals for windows, such as rxvt (msys), and half of putty (which you could use with a local sshd / telnetd). DOS programs (e.g. edit.com) don't work with Unix terminals. You could write your own terminal or try to port st for 'fun'. You might like to write a portable terminal in standard C or C++, perhaps using SDL or a framebuffer, which would be useful on systems without X or Windoze. Someone did this already to some extent. Anyhow, it might be good to get some more experience with Plan 9 and suckless programs / systems / code style before posting too much here... so that people will not have cause to abuse you. Basic HTML is not bad in itself, but modern HTML + CSS + DOM + JS + multitude of incompatible browsers is ridiculously sucky. Basic HTTP is not bad, simplified with minor changes it could be like a plain-text 9p. I'd say X11 sucks almost as much as Windows; and in some ways, 9p sucks more than http. But UNIX is a lot better than DOS. Sam
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 05:00:00PM +0100, Nick wrote: > Best to figure out what is more correct, do that, and patch any > applications that do things the wrong way. I guess other terminals manage this okay, in spite of their faults, why not check to see what they are doing?
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
> People use windows because they don't know any better. If most people are using it, there start to be reasons other than ignorance. For instance, in legal discovery, we don't have the privilege of telling the judge: "Sorry, this evidence was generated by people using lousy software on a lousy OS, so we're not going to discover it. Tell the defendant to get a real OS and commit the offence again. Or, we could run catdoc on everything." > virus-infected, > self-destructive, noob-friendly piece of shit OS. Noob-friendly?! I can't think of a modern OS with a more counter-intuitive, hostile, byzantine interface than Windows XP / 7. (I know nothing of Windows 8.) Android is noob-friendly, a bit. Commodore-64s were noob-friendly. Windows? No.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:59:46AM -0400, Max DeLiso wrote: > A) That's stupid Misguided instead? Very few people who would appreciate a simple terminal are likely to be using Windows. (I'm one of them.) I doubt you'll get many competent coders to contribute. (I'm not one of them.) And it's such a punishing environment that I don't know how satisfying it will be to say: "Well, at least my terminal is adequate!" cygwin + bug.n + an xmouse simulator (or inferno or Acme SAC, if you're into that sort of thing) is about as sane as it gets now on Windows. They are adequate, if your job (like mine) requires this stinky OS. I'd rather see good programmers working on *nix or cross-platform programs than spending time on the endless time-suck that is trying to clean up MS's mess. BTW, st compiles and runs under Cygwin / X, both in the cygwin multiwindow X and with a real WM like dwm. > My aim is to create a minimalist terminal emulator for windows. I want a > project whose relationship to the cmd/conhost/csrss triad is analogous to > the relationship between st and xterm/x. ? This doesn't make much sense to me. wvt is to cmd as st is to xterm? (term to shell as term to term?) That all said, I'll give it a try. But... > https://github.com/maxdeliso/wvt How do you compile this? $ make -f makefile.win32 release make: *** No rule to make target `Release\wvt.obj' , needed by `wvt.exe'. Stop.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
I'm pretty sure angry people shouting at each other are always in the minority. Hey, look, webcomics agree! http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2939 -Nimi
Re: [dev] ii IPv6 support
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 09:25:25AM +0800, Patrick Haller wrote: > On 2013-04-11 21:17, Carlos Torres wrote: > > it was there just a little hidden > > http://git.suckless.org/sites/tree/tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-ipv6.diff > > i mean in the ii repo -> http://git.suckless.org/ii I agree...I think they should be put into separate branches. It would make rebasing to a newer version ridiculously easy for end users, and managing patches easy as well. I currently do something similar with dwm, I have a branch 'pristine' that tracks origin/master, and a multitude of other branches for different patches with one that I selectively merge to called 'patched' that I use for building. There's no reason to keep patches as patch files in git. Thanks, -- William Giokas | KaiSforza GnuPG Key: 0x73CD09CF Fingerprint: F73F 50EF BBE2 9846 8306 E6B8 6902 06D8 73CD 09CF pgpeO7led0H59.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [dev] ii IPv6 support
On 2013-04-11 21:17, Carlos Torres wrote: > it was there just a little hidden > http://git.suckless.org/sites/tree/tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-ipv6.diff i mean in the ii repo -> http://git.suckless.org/ii
Re: [dev] ii IPv6 support
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Patrick Haller <201009-suckl...@haller.ws> wrote: > On 2013-04-11 20:53, Nico Golde wrote: >> http://tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-ipv6.diff > > Aw fsck. Can we put the patches in the git repo? Either as plain files > in patches/, or create a branch based on the commit they diff'd at? > it was there just a little hidden http://git.suckless.org/sites/tree/tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-ipv6.diff
Re: [dev] ii IPv6 support
On 2013-04-11 20:53, Nico Golde wrote: > http://tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-ipv6.diff Aw fsck. Can we put the patches in the git repo? Either as plain files in patches/, or create a branch based on the commit they diff'd at?
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
> Please can we try not to be needlessly dramatic and unpleasant here? > > The tone of this list gets quite hard to handle sometimes, and seems > to have been going more in this direction lately. > I know the prevailing sentiment here is that people should be > treated with the respect their comments deserve, which is fair > enough, but comments like this are massive overkill and really turn > me away from the community. Which sucks, as I like what we're > working towards here. There's plenty of us here who follow the list and love the Suckless effort and Suckless software but don't like that style. Not my place to try to change it, but you're not alone. You're probably not in the minority. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:57 AM, Nick wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:45:48PM -0400, Jacob Todd wrote: > > Kill yourself. > > Please can we try not to be needlessly dramatic and unpleasant here? > > The tone of this list gets quite hard to handle sometimes, and seems > to have been going more in this direction lately. > > I know the prevailing sentiment here is that people should be > treated with the respect their comments deserve, which is fair > enough, but comments like this are massive overkill and really turn > me away from the community. Which sucks, as I like what we're > working towards here. > >
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
installing windows takes me less time than reading this wall of text. go back crying over how bad windows is everyone. and buy a mac.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
Oh, look, how nice, religious wars at dev@suckless, and my favourite "argument" about Windows being crappy operating system with absolutely no justification. Religious people never justify their views, I guess. About the "lock-in": drivers may be the case, but applications can not be "lock-in". If somebody goes and creates amazingly beautiful operating system called, for example, Plot C right now, incompatible with either Linux drivers (which KolibriOS for example is compatible with), Windows drivers, and every app out there in the world because it doesn't conform to outdated standards nor does it attempts to provide compatibility, and then he'll cry about how all users are locked in and nobody uses his beauty, I'll call him stupid. It's not "lock-in", it's he hasn't attempted to make his OS usable. Same thing applies, with two orders of magnitude lower, to Linux. Go open your package manager or open Github if you don't have one, and look what's there. Mostly some arcane shit, as fruitless as a proverbial fig tree, some clones of Windows apps, clones of clones of Windows apps, attempts to rewrite and revise libraries, magically make less buggy changing an API, and so on. We have so many music players, each better and slicker that others, but still unusable as hell. We have buggy applications written in GTK+ that crash depending on moon phase. We have I don't know how many libraries for data serialization and datetime handling and whatnot, and I'd bet fifty bucks that almost all of them started "this bloatware sucks, let's come with something simple and funny to write". All that unbearable crap actually helps greatly. If you do not give up trying to make all that shit actually kind of work, because their developers thought only about fun and elegance, not usability, you learn a lot of new things, and that's very cool. But it's not for normal people, no. It's either for masochists or elitists.
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
> Maybe pasting to st should be fixed too, so when newlines are pasted, > they are translated to ^M. But '\n' should be copied, otherwise pasting > to graphical programs is broken. That's how urxvt does it and this is what my patch originally done (sort of, translation was in ttywrite while in should've been in selection notify or whatever is it called), but __20h__ applied it that way. If someone would convince him, that would be great, because making files with xclip -o is also terrible now.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
2013/4/11 Strake > On 11/04/2013, Max DeLiso wrote: > > I completely agree that Windows is a legacy OS, but plenty of people are > > still forced to use it for many legitimate reasons. > > Forced? How? At knifepoint? > Because of my work. I'm using PL7Pro which only exists on Windows. Maybe, you're able to port it to Linux, then contact me. -- H.Mo.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Apr 11, 2013 5:04 PM, "Strake" wrote: > > On 11/04/2013, Max DeLiso wrote: > > I completely agree that Windows is a legacy OS, but plenty of people are > > still forced to use it for many legitimate reasons. > > Forced? How? At knifepoint? Lock-in. Be it device drivers, applications, management, support contracts, etc. It's no accident, as pancake asserted previously.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On 11/04/2013, Max DeLiso wrote: > I completely agree that Windows is a legacy OS, but plenty of people are > still forced to use it for many legitimate reasons. Forced? How? At knifepoint?
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
Max DeLiso dixit: >If windows was totally unusable would it have succeeded in the way that it Windows® does not have succeeded. Until and including version 7, it’s brought new people, who IMHO do not belong in front of a computer except with nōn-root rights and having hired, say, a student as their personal sysadmin, in. But no Real Programmers use it. With version 8, it’s just AOL all over again. (And interestingly enough, today someone in IRC said Geocities popped up too, but I couldn’t easily look as it required a Google login. And yes it’s below .google.com…) bye, //mirabilos -- Sorry, I’m annoyed today and you came by as an Arch user. These are the perfect victims for any crime against humanity, like systemd, feminism or social democracy. -- Christoph Lohmann on dev@suckless.org
Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users
Shouldnt be hard to make a void base-system-minit package. In fact it was using sysvinit before. There are also musl, static and crosscompilation profiles. Its just a matter of hands and time :P systemd was chosed at first because it was replacing about 15 packages and this made the pkg maintainance easier. But nothing bans you to madr a different base pkg like the base-chroot one On Apr 11, 2013, at 20:48, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > tinycore and crux come without systemd >
Re: [dev] ii IPv6 support
Hi, * Patrick <201009-suckl...@haller.ws> [2013-04-08 12:25]: > Attached is a patch to add IPv6 support to ii, based on where it was as > of 7a99152ce64d7006730006094b333edbecbe505a > > Enjoy, scream, whatever... hmm? http://tools.suckless.org/ii/patches/ii-1.7-ssl.diff Cheers Nico
Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users
tinycore and crux come without systemd
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013, at 10:59, Max DeLiso wrote: My aim is to create a minimalist terminal emulator for windows. I want a project whose relationship to the cmd/conhost/csrss triad is analogous to the relationship between st and xterm/x. I'm going to try and lift out of st all of the platform agnostic bits which I am able to, and generally use it as a reference for terminal emulation routines. If it doesn't work _with_ the "cmd/conhost/csrss triad", what programs are going to run in it? Cygwin, I suppose. The problem, in general, with unix-ish terminal emulators on windows is they don't work with applications designed to run in the console.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On 04/11/13 19:24, Joseph Xu wrote: On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Max DeLiso wrote: A) That's stupid B) Therefore OP must be stupid. I don't think you're stupid, because the few times I've had to use cmd.exe, I've thought about this myself. But I do think it's a waste of time. How much do you use the console in Windows? Very few native Windows programs are written for it, and the ones that exist certainly do not expect or take advantage of VT102 emulation for curses functionality. So the benefit of the port is minimal. I think you are just trying to shoehorn the paradigm of one OS into another. On the other hand, I think a nicer console program without terminal emulation and nicer GUI features, along the lines of 9term, would be much simpler to implement and may be worth the cost. in fact th way windows access the terminal is by API and not by ANSI, so if you want to handle ^C you have to hook a callback to a function and if you want to print colors on screen you have to call some functions to setup a new palete and so on. what cygwin does is the same as I did in r_cons (inside r2). parse every buffer that will be printed on screen and change every ANSI code by a buffer flush and a function call to change the color. also, the api doesnt permits the same features as ansi permits, and flushing so many times results in much slower rendering. i remember that there was an ansi.sys driver that was doing this.. but wonder what happened with that.. but well. its windows, and nobody cares. in fact, last time i had windows at home was around 1999... and well, i have tried to avoid jobs where i had to use w32... to try to keep my mind sane. Rejecting this kind of jobs is my way to try to make the world a better place. theorically the "new" shell in windows is "powershell" which is something like a object oriented shell (similar to ruby), with nice features that nobody care because they only work on windows. also i think that the best way to use windows was installing openssh from cygwin and then using putty in fullscreen to connect to localhost. but anyway.. after 14 years without using it, i can only say that i would love to see how microsoft dies and stops releasing crappy hardware and software (surface and winphone are the ultimate abomination), and they didnt stopped their monopolistic practices imposing their by pushing money software to governments and hardware manufacturers... tell me how many laptops can you buy on a phisical store that didnt come with windows preinstalled. (for example) fuck that shit --pancake
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Joseph Xu wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Max DeLiso wrote: >> A) That's stupid >> B) Therefore OP must be stupid. > > I don't think you're stupid, because the few times I've had to use > cmd.exe, I've thought about this myself. But I do think it's a waste of > time. How much do you use the console in Windows? Very few native Windows > programs are written for it, and the ones that exist certainly do not > expect or take advantage of VT102 emulation for curses functionality. So > the benefit of the port is minimal. I think you are just trying > to shoehorn the paradigm of one OS into another. You make a great point. Almost all programs which depend on curses already would need to be ported to NT anyways, and there are already (as mentioned before), methods for doing this which already work. > > On the other hand, I think a nicer console program without terminal > emulation and nicer GUI features, along the lines of 9term, would be > much simpler to implement and may be worth the cost. > The cost is minimal, I enjoy doing writing this code because I inevitably end up learning more about system design. In fact last time I was working on this project, I ended up finding CVE-2013-0076 :). I will reconsider inclusion of terminal emulation. Thanks for the input!
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On 04/11/2013 09:41, Max DeLiso wrote: If windows was totally unusable would it have succeeded in the way that it has? Windows is certainly not ideal in any sense but you can't deny its ongoing success commercially. Windows (and before it, DOS) was never an example of well-designed software. Its success had nothing to do with its technical merits. Rob Landley has given some talks recently, in which he points out how the bandwagon or snowball effect has elevated and locked in the leaders in various technological niches. DOS/Windows succeeded simply because people wanted to use what everyone else was using. In the late 80's/early 90's: CP/M had reached a dead end. The Unix world was fragmented and still seen as aimed at "big iron" or high-end workstations. It often required expensive license fees. Linux and PC-BSD were either not invented yet or still too rough around the edges to appeal to the mass market. By the time they were ready enough, Microsoft had already built an insurmountable lead. Apple and Amiga had products for personal use, but unlike the PC, they weren't aimed at the office or business user. DOS/Windows won the business market for personal computing almost by default, and Microsoft used that advantage to build their empire. People forget how much enthusiasm there was for DOS/Windows back in the early days. It was the Revolution, the People's Computer, striking a blow against big iron and the IT priesthood. There was a thriving shareware community...
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Max DeLiso wrote: > A) That's stupid > B) Therefore OP must be stupid. I don't think you're stupid, because the few times I've had to use cmd.exe, I've thought about this myself. But I do think it's a waste of time. How much do you use the console in Windows? Very few native Windows programs are written for it, and the ones that exist certainly do not expect or take advantage of VT102 emulation for curses functionality. So the benefit of the port is minimal. I think you are just trying to shoehorn the paradigm of one OS into another. On the other hand, I think a nicer console program without terminal emulation and nicer GUI features, along the lines of 9term, would be much simpler to implement and may be worth the cost.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
Greetings. On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:22:22 +0200 Nick wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:45:48PM -0400, Jacob Todd wrote: > > The tone of this list gets quite hard to handle sometimes, and seems > to have been going more in this direction lately. No, that’s due to the people entering this list. The loud ones seem to be the generation of blinded Windows and Gnome developers. The reaction to such people will always be the same, when they have no profound rea‐ son for their opinion and only speak for their uninformed minds. > I know the prevailing sentiment here is that people should be > treated with the respect their comments deserve, which is fair > enough, but comments like this are massive overkill and really turn > me away from the community. Which sucks, as I like what we're > working towards here. There is no reason to start sentiment for the people this project worked against all the time. This will only kill our principles. Do you really want st to have a Go backend SDK for web development, just because it’s hip and the node.js backend looks better when I’m drunk? Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 05:00:00PM +0100, Nick wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 05:25:46PM +0200, Martti Kühne wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Carlos Torres wrote: > > > this is a funny patch. it must have been about 1 to 2 months ago that > > > there was another discussion about pasting to other apps and thats > > > when that carrige return appeared. and now there is a patch to revert > > > that back...lol this is great, i look forward to another patch that > > > takes it back to \r :) > > > > I'd say this qualifies for a move to config.h. > > I might be back later with a patch for that. > > Umm, no. "If you want to use st with x, y, z programs, set this to > \r, if you want to use a, b, c programs, set \n" is a terrible idea. > > Best to figure out what is more correct, do that, and patch any > applications that do things the wrong way. > Maybe pasting to st should be fixed too, so when newlines are pasted, they are translated to ^M. But '\n' should be copied, otherwise pasting to graphical programs is broken.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
> Really depends how you define Kill yourself. -sl
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Nick wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:45:48PM -0400, Jacob Todd wrote: >> Kill yourself. > > Please can we try not to be needlessly dramatic and unpleasant here? > seconding this! It's juvenile and counterproductive.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:46 PM, wrote:
>> The web is the future of computing, that much is evident.
>
> The web is not even the present of computing. Most humans
> access the Internet using custom clients ("apps") on mobile
> devices.
Really depends how you define web doesn't it? If by web you're
referring specifically to HTTP, which the majority of those custom
clients are using to transmit data, then yes, the web is the present
of computing.
Even if you define it more generally as programming with some kind of
network interaction involved, it's still the present of computing.
In fact the only definitions of web that it fails this test is the
very narrow definition which refers only to HTML being loaded into a
browser. (And though facebook has shown that this approach on mobile
is still not really viable yet, it is still being worked on). Look at
firefoxOS. No consensus has really emerged yet on this, though it
seems to be the direction many are headed.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:45:48PM -0400, Jacob Todd wrote: > Kill yourself. Please can we try not to be needlessly dramatic and unpleasant here? The tone of this list gets quite hard to handle sometimes, and seems to have been going more in this direction lately. I know the prevailing sentiment here is that people should be treated with the respect their comments deserve, which is fair enough, but comments like this are massive overkill and really turn me away from the community. Which sucks, as I like what we're working towards here.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
> The web is the future of computing, that much is evident.
The web is not even the present of computing. Most humans
access the Internet using custom clients ("apps") on mobile
devices.
-sl
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
Kill yourself. On Apr 11, 2013 12:42 PM, "Max DeLiso" wrote: > On Apr 11, 2013 11:54 AM, "Christoph Lohmann" <2...@r-36.net> wrote: > > > > Greetings. > > > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:48:11 +0200 Max DeLiso > wrote: > > > I know what you're probably thinking. > > > > > > A) That's stupid > > > > Windows is the reason why we lack behind in software development by more > > than 20 years. Software is unusable, proprietary and programmers are > > taught that things should be that way and only because Redmond created > > this environment. > > If windows was totally unusable would it have succeeded in the way that it > has? Windows is certainly not ideal in any sense but you can't deny its > ongoing success commercially. > > > > > Apple and Google are creating the next backstep by binding developer re‐ > > sources in complete separate environments. > > What does this even mean? I could try to tease some sense out of it but > I'll leave that burden to you... > > > > > All people spreading Windows should be laughed at and sent back to > > school for learning some real job. The same applies for people spreading > > Google or Apple. People spreading the web should be shot, because they > > are the reason for the next 10 years of technological standstill. > > The web is the future of computing, that much is evident. You can hole > yourself up in your little imaginary world where users don't matter, nobody > actually gets paid, and the sole criteria for judging software systems lies > in their strict adherence to a bunch vaguely articulated idealist > principles. I'll be out here in the real world, with the rest of the sane > people. >
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Apr 11, 2013 11:54 AM, "Christoph Lohmann" <2...@r-36.net> wrote: > > Greetings. > > On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:48:11 +0200 Max DeLiso wrote: > > I know what you're probably thinking. > > > > A) That's stupid > > Windows is the reason why we lack behind in software development by more > than 20 years. Software is unusable, proprietary and programmers are > taught that things should be that way and only because Redmond created > this environment. If windows was totally unusable would it have succeeded in the way that it has? Windows is certainly not ideal in any sense but you can't deny its ongoing success commercially. > > Apple and Google are creating the next backstep by binding developer re‐ > sources in complete separate environments. What does this even mean? I could try to tease some sense out of it but I'll leave that burden to you... > > All people spreading Windows should be laughed at and sent back to > school for learning some real job. The same applies for people spreading > Google or Apple. People spreading the web should be shot, because they > are the reason for the next 10 years of technological standstill. The web is the future of computing, that much is evident. You can hole yourself up in your little imaginary world where users don't matter, nobody actually gets paid, and the sole criteria for judging software systems lies in their strict adherence to a bunch vaguely articulated idealist principles. I'll be out here in the real world, with the rest of the sane people.
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 05:25:46PM +0200, Martti Kühne wrote: > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Carlos Torres wrote: > > this is a funny patch. it must have been about 1 to 2 months ago that > > there was another discussion about pasting to other apps and thats > > when that carrige return appeared. and now there is a patch to revert > > that back...lol this is great, i look forward to another patch that > > takes it back to \r :) > > I'd say this qualifies for a move to config.h. > I might be back later with a patch for that. Umm, no. "If you want to use st with x, y, z programs, set this to \r, if you want to use a, b, c programs, set \n" is a terrible idea. Best to figure out what is more correct, do that, and patch any applications that do things the wrong way.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
Greetings. On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:48:11 +0200 Max DeLiso wrote: > I know what you're probably thinking. > > A) That's stupid Windows is the reason why we lack behind in software development by more than 20 years. Software is unusable, proprietary and programmers are taught that things should be that way and only because Redmond created this environment. Apple and Google are creating the next backstep by binding developer re‐ sources in complete separate environments. All people spreading Windows should be laughed at and sent back to school for learning some real job. The same applies for people spreading Google or Apple. People spreading the web should be shot, because they are the reason for the next 10 years of technological standstill. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann
Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users
> Anyway, pancake's contributing to voidlinux so I'll try void. Any other > good rolling release distros? >From the voidlinux page: Speed, reliability, and flexibility. That's the battle-cry of today's disgruntled computer geeks. This is what people want with a Linux distribution, and this is what Void Linux provides. Sounds good so far... With lightning-fast and useful tools such as the XBPS package manager, Never heard of it, but ok... and systemd So much for that.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Apr 11, 2013 11:23 AM, "Martti Kühne" wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Max DeLiso wrote: > > > > Well it does add an extra layer of abstraction which could be a source of > > bugs. Also that would make contributing significantly more difficult for the > > Windows people. > > > People use windows because they don't know any better. They don't even > want to know any better. Let's write suckless code and then hide it > under three layers of dysfunctional GUI and press F1 for help... I > think not even F1 will help you with your virus-infected, > self-destructive, noob-friendly piece of shit OS. > > That said, I remember good times with windows. Back when I downloaded > and installed $actual_os. I completely agree that Windows is a legacy OS, but plenty of people are still forced to use it for many legitimate reasons. > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, pancake wrote: > > definitevly debugging cygwin programs is almost impossible (try it by > > yourself), but anyway.. what's the point of using C++? and well.. i guess > > you know that st depends on X and pty. and windows have none of those > > things? and well. who cares about windows nowadays? > > > > Never did that. Thanks for the heads-up, although I was already under > the impression that on windows nothing at all can be debugged, > because, well, where's the fucking source to anything? > You can actually get symbols for large parts of the internals. The documentation is generally quite good too. And for the undocumented parts you can always reverse. > cheers! > mar77i >
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On 04/11/13 17:23, Martti Kühne wrote: Never did that. Thanks for the heads-up, although I was already under the impression that on windows nothing at all can be debugged, because, well, where's the fucking source to anything? who needs the source to debug anything?
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
You might me interested in ConEmu http://code.google.com/p/conemu-maximus5/
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Carlos Torres wrote: > this is a funny patch. it must have been about 1 to 2 months ago that > there was another discussion about pasting to other apps and thats > when that carrige return appeared. and now there is a patch to revert > that back...lol this is great, i look forward to another patch that > takes it back to \r :) > > I'd say this qualifies for a move to config.h. I might be back later with a patch for that. cheers! mar77i
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Max DeLiso wrote: > > Well it does add an extra layer of abstraction which could be a source of > bugs. Also that would make contributing significantly more difficult for the > Windows people. People use windows because they don't know any better. They don't even want to know any better. Let's write suckless code and then hide it under three layers of dysfunctional GUI and press F1 for help... I think not even F1 will help you with your virus-infected, self-destructive, noob-friendly piece of shit OS. That said, I remember good times with windows. Back when I downloaded and installed $actual_os. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM, pancake wrote: > definitevly debugging cygwin programs is almost impossible (try it by > yourself), but anyway.. what's the point of using C++? and well.. i guess > you know that st depends on X and pty. and windows have none of those > things? and well. who cares about windows nowadays? > Never did that. Thanks for the heads-up, although I was already under the impression that on windows nothing at all can be debugged, because, well, where's the fucking source to anything? cheers! mar77i
Re: [dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
this is a funny patch. it must have been about 1 to 2 months ago that there was another discussion about pasting to other apps and thats when that carrige return appeared. and now there is a patch to revert that back...lol this is great, i look forward to another patch that takes it back to \r :) On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, wrote: > This patch makes behaviour consistent with xterm and comments.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On 04/11/13 17:13, Max DeLiso wrote: On Apr 11, 2013 11:05 AM, "Martti Kühne" mailto:mysat...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > What are you writing C++ code if you could use Xming or even cygwin to > just compile the actual st on windows? Well it does add an extra layer of abstraction which could be a source of bugs. Also that would make contributing significantly more difficult for the Windows people. definitevly debugging cygwin programs is almost impossible (try it by yourself), but anyway.. what's the point of using C++? and well.. i guess you know that st depends on X and pty. and windows have none of those things? and well. who cares about windows nowadays?
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
On Apr 11, 2013 11:05 AM, "Martti Kühne" wrote: > > What are you writing C++ code if you could use Xming or even cygwin to > just compile the actual st on windows? Well it does add an extra layer of abstraction which could be a source of bugs. Also that would make contributing significantly more difficult for the Windows people.
Re: [dev] [st] windows port?
What are you writing C++ code if you could use Xming or even cygwin to just compile the actual st on windows?
[dev] [st] windows port?
I know what you're probably thinking. A) That's stupid B) Therefore OP must be stupid. But wait for just one second! The state of the command prompt on windows is a mess. There are several massive, tangled, bug-ridden, and crufty subsystems which must interact in multiple ways in order to make it run. (conhost.exe, cmd.exe, and csrss.exe except that last is increasingly less involved as the years pass). Of course there is very little customization available and a general dearth of features. Console2 has oft been touted as a worthy replacement - and it is, but I believe that its reliance on windows-isms on a source level makes it inaccessible to many prospective developers. Also, it depends on boost, which is an amazing library, but which I think is overkill for this kind of endeavor. Finally, it's not being maintained any longer as far as I can see. I have been studying Console2 though to try and glean some windows best practices which msdn doesn't go into detail on, and it's been useful in this regard. Powershell is nice, but it adds many extremely powerful but ultimately difficult to apply features and has very little compatibility with anything. (And is not open source). My aim is to create a minimalist terminal emulator for windows. I want a project whose relationship to the cmd/conhost/csrss triad is analogous to the relationship between st and xterm/x. I'm going to try and lift out of st all of the platform agnostic bits which I am able to, and generally use it as a reference for terminal emulation routines. I was wondering if you fine folks could give me some guidance, or perhaps review my code (it's c++ though). Here's the repo: https://github.com/maxdeliso/wvt. Thoughts/opinions/personal attacks welcome! Thanks, --max
[dev] [st] pasting to gvim sucks
This patch makes behaviour consistent with xterm and comments.
diff --git a/st.c b/st.c
index 93058b9..90c102e 100644
--- a/st.c
+++ b/st.c
@@ -790,7 +790,7 @@ selcopy(void) {
}
/* \n at the end of every selected line except for the
last one */
if(is_selected && y < sel.e.y)
- *ptr++ = '\r';
+ *ptr++ = '\n';
}
*ptr = 0;
}
Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users
2013/4/11 Patrick Haller <201009-suckl...@haller.ws> > Anyway, pancake's contributing to voidlinux so I'll try void. Any other > good rolling release distros? > Didn't know it. I'll give it a try. Thank you. -- H.Moretto
Re: [dev] Call for pkgsrc users
* Patrick Haller <201009-suckl...@haller.ws> [2013-04-11 04:30]: On 2013-04-10 13:13, William Giokas wrote: There are extremely strong technical arguments for using systemd as a simple, easy to use and easy to configure initialization system. systemd trades simplicity for boot-speed and stack integration. There are always trade-offs. Over 13 SLOCs of C code is not a trade-off, it's the canonical definition of software bloat. If you want better boot speed, there are less bloated options. minit for example only consists of 1651 SLOCs. Andreas
