Re: [dev] Plain text editor that sucks less - an alternative to VIM?

2014-07-02 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net wrote:
 On Wed 02 Jul 2014 at 04:49:23 PDT FRIGN wrote:


 Yes, highlighting comments makes sense, as even the article suggests,
 but this is not a central issue if you know how to encapsulate your
 comments:

 /*
 (...)
 (...)
 (...)
 */

 is more error-prone and hard to read than

 /*
 * (...)
 * (...)
 * (...)
 */

 once the comments get longer.


 Agreed.  But I'm often reading someone else's code and they're not
 always so considerate.



 Why would the former be more error-prone? Or even harder to read?...In
 my opinion they both have equal readability.

 The only issue I have with syntax highlighting is that many people
 rely on it to know if what they're typing is correct syntax (which
 means people have no idea what they're doing- in a sense training
 wheels), and to visually scan source (why scroll through the entire
 source looking for function f() when you can just run ctags or a
 similar tool?). As people have pointed out too, compilers will usually
 tell where you've made a mistake in syntax.


Quick, tell me whether /^http:(\/\/(?:[^/]+\/)+[/]final)$/ parses in Ruby.
How about in JavaScript?

The answer is obvious if you know your language and are able to do a
quick scan through the literal, but syntax highlighting removes the
effort entirely.



Re: [dev] Plain text editor that sucks less - an alternative to VIM?

2014-07-02 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Chris Down ch...@chrisdown.name wrote:
 Ryan O’Hara writes:
 Quick, tell me whether /^http:(\/\/(?:[^/]+\/)+[/]final)$/ parses in
 Ruby.

 If you're writing regexes like that, you really should be using a
 method that has a real understanding of URIs instead.

It was the best I could come up with on the spot; sorry.



Re: [dev] Plain text editor that sucks less - an alternative to VIM?

2014-06-30 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote:
 This may not be an alternative to VIM, but it is inspired by its
 ancestor vi, and other editors like ed, sam, and acme. It is a
 graphical text editor. The main reason why I choose graphical is
 because TUIs are just a hack of GUIs. Seriously, look at the
 screenshots posted at the beginning- why would anyone use that? There
 is a framebuffer driver on most modern OSs that work to have some sort
 of graphical capability. It has two modes, regular text input mode
 that supports UNIX bindings (ctrl+e/a/u/h), and a command-line mode,
 that brings up a command-line. You can select text and pipe it to any
 command you type in there (as long as it can accept input from STDIN).
 This alone makes the editor really powerful, because it opens up your
 entire system for use. It has no support for syntax highlighting
 (personally I find it annoying and I find I understand code better
 than having to rely on the highlighting to tell me what is and what is
 not correct); auto-complete is not supported, but is extremely
 practical when working with Java/C#/C++/etc- I never code in those
 languages without their respective IDEs (Eclipse, Visual Studio,
 SomeMassiveIDEThatSupportsEverything), because it's almost impossible
 unless you've worked with them for a long time; does not support
 window management which means no tabbing, windows in windows and other
 non-sense, all window management is done by the window manager.

A Tk textbox with four extra Emacs bindings and something to run shell commands?
At least vi is portable…



Re: [dev] Why do you use tmux/screen?

2014-06-30 Thread Ryan O’Hara
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 Hello,

 After a year or so in the list, I think each and every one is using tmux or 
 screen (I think more tmux, but do not start a war please, that's not the 
 subject).
 Why is that? For the tabs?
 Why not use tabbed? or DWM's mono-view (how is it called when you see only 1 
 window?)?

 Apart from that, if it is really useful, how does it work? I searched a bit 
 the web and I only found some keybindings, but not how the thing works.
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tmux can detach, which is useful when you want to:

 - hide things you aren’t working on currently but may need to refer back to,
   without cluttering up your windows

 - persist sessions across restarts of your terminal emulator or window manager

It also provides scrollback, and can even tell you the time!
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Re: [dev] suckless distro

2014-06-25 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:40 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND sylw...@legeek.net wrote:
 My arguments are perfectly sensible from the perspective of making
 SDKs suckless: the avoidance of technically expensive components
 in small SDKs.


To look at things another way: simple projects don’t require particularly
complicated Makefiles. You can write one simple enough that running the second
line is equivalent to running make. If it needs to be extended in the future,
that’s easy enough; it’s portable; everyone can read it; everyone knows how
to override its configuration.



Re: [dev] suckless distro

2014-06-24 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 8:19 AM, FRIGN d...@frign.de wrote:
 On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:09:11 -0400
 Andrew Gwozdziewycz w...@apgwoz.com wrote:
 …
 Don't want pulseaudio? Fine, don't install it. Don't want GNOME? Don't
 install it. The number of *available* packages has no impact on that,
 but it sure is convenient when installation is a 'pacman -S' away.

 It does have an impact when certain packages become a standard.
 For instance, Microsoft dropped ALSA-support in Skype in favor of
 pulseaudio as a part of their EEE tactic.

How do you usually get around Skype being Skype?

 Other examples are the incorporation of udev in systemd (thank god
 there's eudev and mdev), the assumption everyone uses non-tiling-wm's,
 PAM, consolekit and many more.

Where does that assumption come into play in Arch?
I’m using a tiling WM with no problems.



Re: [dev] suckless distro

2014-06-24 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 8:35 AM, FRIGN d...@frign.de wrote:
 On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:28:42 -0700
 Ryan O’Hara rni...@gmail.com wrote:

 How do you usually get around Skype being Skype?

 It was an example. People seriously using Skype now are forced to have
 PA installed. And many people have to use Skype because their work
 requires it.

Those who care that much, like in many things that are not Arch, will
choose not to upgrade it.

 Where does that assumption come into play in Arch?
 I’m using a tiling WM with no problems.

 Read this[0]. There are plenty of programs not working well with
 tiling-wm's. It's choice not to use them, but I felt like including
 them in my list.

This doesn’t appear to have anything at all to do with distro choice.
(And hey, Arch doesn’t have packages for beep-media-player, gqview, or aterm!)



Re: [dev] suckless distro

2014-06-24 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Dimitris Papastamos s...@2f30.org wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 08:28:42AM -0700, Ryan O’Hara wrote:
 How do you usually get around Skype being Skype?

 Have a separate /emul namespace for crapware.  Use ns-tools[0] to manage
 it.

 This also helps with multilib crap.

 [0] http://git.r-36.net/ns-tools/


That’s what I do (since Skype is the only multilib package I use), but
it seems more straightforward to do with pacman than any other default
package manager…



Re: [dev] [st] [PATCH] Fix typo in config.def.h

2014-06-18 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Eric Pruitt eric.pru...@gmail.com wrote:
 When I submitted my patch with the bounding-box scaling / kerning
 implementation, I made a typo in config.def.h. Unfortunately I didn't
 notice until after it was applied, and it's been haunting me ever since.
 Attached is a one-line change to fix the typo.

 Eric

While you’re at it, line 140:

- * Be careful with the order of the definitons because st searchs in
+ * Be careful with the order of the definitions because st searches in



Re: [dev] C coded cross-platform youtube video viewer

2014-05-19 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 5:34 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND sylw...@legeek.net wrote:
 You missed the points.

 I don't want standard distro integration to be a massive work.
 Now it's near unreasonable to integrate a proper desktop distro
 alone, and it's quite worse from a SDK point of view. It's good
 for the business of distro integration: coze a small team, or a
 sole coder cannot compet reasonnably. I'm being ironic, but I
 don't think I'm far from the truth.

 High level script languages are *many*. And forcibly used in many
 base components. Perl5 in autotools, apt/dpkg (have to re-check),
 ruby for grub2, python for portage, javascript for desktops
 (gnome) and I don't count all the code generators SDKs do have.
 Last time I tried to get rid of the autotools from the glib (not
 glibc), I ran into perl5 and python2 (and not 3!!) code
 generators. For libsnd, I discovered a crazy code generator
 written in GNU guile. Of course, each high level scripting
 language has to manage its module dependencies and so on, and
 it's of course of massive kludge... yes nearly *each* of them.

 People choosing to code using C with some libs, did choose it
 perfectly knowing that they will sacrifice some comfort compared
 to *insert your favorite high level scripting language* with
 *insert the chosen framework specific to that high level
 scripting language*... (the funniest is PHP with its tons of
 different www frameworks which do not work together but aim at
 the same thing).

 That works with crazy complex statically compiled languages like
 c++/java (which is probably the worst)/etc.

 Then, yes, I dont want all those things as system dependencies,
 coze I don't want to have to maintain integration on those very
 expensive pieces of software. The hard part, they will have to
 do it: to bundle in their SDK those thingies. It would
 solve only one part of the pb, coze I'm sure they would use build
 systems like cmake or the GNU autotools, then making the removal
 of those for some basic sh scripts or basic makefiles, a real
 nightmare (and I already put forward the issue of code
 generators).

You could:

- not use GNOME
- accept that people will build things with scripting languages and
that you will need them

 ruby for grub2

Haha, what?



Re: [dev] C coded cross-platform youtube video viewer

2014-05-15 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Sylvain BERTRAND sylw...@legeek.net wrote:
 Hi,

 Unfortunately, libquvi on gentoo expects a system
 installed lua (with additional modules).

 I don't want this high level script language as a system
 dependency. I would prefer lua being packaged internally into
 libquvi. [Rant elided]

 Anybody here does know if this is possible?

Yes; you could go change it to embed Lua.



Re: [dev] C coded cross-platform youtube video viewer

2014-05-15 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Markus Wichmann nullp...@gmx.net wrote:
 Why would you do this? It's bloody idiotic, if you think about it. It
 would be like having all C programs ship their own libc. Have you seen
 how big perl is? Do you really want to have two perl installations just
 because two different programs use it?

Unless I’m mistaken, suckless in general advocates for
statically-linked standard C libraries of reasonable size.
http://suckless.org/rocks

 That, in my opinion was always the major benefit of Linux over Windows:
 On Linux you have system wide package managers. That means each software
 package can be as small as possible and only pull external dependencies.
 On Windows, no such thing exists. If a program needs a lib, it has to
 ship that lib. If you have 50 programs using that lib, on Linux you have
 that lib once, on Windows you have it 50 times. Which way is better?

It *is* one way to solve a real problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLL_Hell

 scripting languages are not fundamentally different!

Thank you!



Re: [dev] C coded cross-platform youtube video viewer

2014-05-07 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 10:29 AM, patrick295767 patrick295767
patrick295...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I was watching a movie on youtube, and finally I realized that we
 still haven't coded an application, such as we were doing 10-20 years
 ago.

 Why we still so heavily use the browser, when so much is possible with
 coding in C.

 Well you might you youtube python app, but it is so much marvellous to
 code in C (or alternatively in C++).

 Maybe one day we can rise more hacking programs (actually, you have
 your own responsability to use it, over a gnu licencing.).

 Well, the era of console apps is still there actively developed, but
 we still have to strive more to bring more apps.

 http://cli-apps.org/

 Cheers Guys, and Be C with you you always, even in your Pocket (on iphone ;))!


Does this qualify as spam?

Anyways, you won’t be hard-pressed to find a video player written in C.



Re: [dev] [st] Understading st behaviour

2014-04-15 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Amadeus Folego amadeusfol...@gmail.com wrote:
 It looks like I am spawning st with tmux (e.g. st -e tmux), and the issue is
 that tmux is reparenting the process id to tmux's daemon. Example:

 tmux
 |
  \_newsbeuter
 |
  \_vim st.c

 It is not an issue with xmonad after all, and I can confirm that the
 issue happens on urxvt as well (e.g. urxvt -e tmux).

That’s this issue?:

 1. If you open a program like mutt, ssh, or newsbeuter and kill the
window with the wm (like xmonad) the process will not be killed.

I am pretty sure that’s wholly by design as far as tmux goes.
Just don’t try to exit your tmux session through the WM.



Re: [dev] Shell vs C where is the border?

2014-03-10 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Szymon Olewniczak
szymon.olewnic...@rid.pl wrote:
 So what solution would be better in your opinion? When
 we should use shell scripts and when write new C programs to achieve our
 goals?

When it makes sense.



Re: [dev] XML vs HTML (was: Article about suckless on root.cz)

2014-02-21 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Hadrian Węgrzynowski
hadr...@hawski.com wrote:
 It's utter nonsense to not restrict paragraph
 length (at 80 characters or something). It's utter nonsense to assume
 that everyone is using maximised browser window at 1080p.


80-character paragraphs don’t sound particularly semantic.



Re: [dev] wswsh: a mksh web framework

2013-12-12 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Nicholas Hall ngh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:57 AM, YpN y...@autistici.org wrote:
 I wrote a shell script using mksh, which generates websites.

 This looks pretty cool.  I'm sick of all the shitty hip offline
 website generators, and the direction web development is headed in
 general -- layer upon layer upon layer.  Seriously, these guys wrap
 one shitty language on top of another shitty language.  They should
 leave these tools up to their editors if they feel the need to use
 them, not standardize another abstraction layer.


I don’t understand how each of your sentences matches up with the rest.
What are you talking about?



Re: [dev] wswsh: a mksh web framework

2013-12-12 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Nicholas Hall ngh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ryan O’Hara rni...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Nicholas Hall ngh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:57 AM, YpN y...@autistici.org wrote:
 I wrote a shell script using mksh, which generates websites.

 This looks pretty cool.  I'm sick of all the shitty hip offline
 website generators, and the direction web development is headed in
 general -- layer upon layer upon layer.  Seriously, these guys wrap
 one shitty language on top of another shitty language.  They should
 leave these tools up to their editors if they feel the need to use
 them, not standardize another abstraction layer.


 I don’t understand how each of your sentences matches up with the rest.
 What are you talking about?

 I'm talking about Jekyll, SASS, Coffeescript, LESS, Compass, Jade.  I
 could go on.


Jekyll seems pretty decent to me. What is there to object to? Markdown and Ruby?

The rest of the things you mention don’t have much to do with offline
website generation. They’re just languages that compile to other
languages. Jade, especially, is the absolute opposite of a “static
content” language.



Re: [dev] wswsh: a mksh web framework

2013-12-12 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Kai Hendry hen...@webconverger.com wrote:
 You generate .html URLs. bit 90s and fugly. urls should be clean 
 /2013/blogpost/

Not the job of the static website generator.



Re: [dev] Re: [st] System freeze when killing X after using st-git

2013-11-30 Thread Ryan O’Hara
Christoph Lohmann 2...@r-36.net, 2013-11-30T08:08:43Z
 I  won’t add a »I‐am‐so‐stupid‐to‐buy‐Apple‐
 hardware« or »I‐am‐a‐retard‐
 using‐Arch‐Linux‐after‐the‐systemd‐disaster« flag.

 The bug is outside of st.

Shall we change it to dwm then? It works fine with literally any other
combination.

Ryan O’Hara



Re: [dev] [st] System freeze when killing X after using st-git

2013-11-26 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 07:14:27PM +0100, Andreas Marschall wrote:
 I wonder why no other Arch users are reporting on this?

It has been reported before. It’s specifically the combination of dwm
and st, by the way.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=168041,
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=167086

Ryan O’Hara

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Alexander Huemer
alexander.hue...@xx.vu wrote:
 On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 07:14:27PM +0100, Andreas Marschall wrote:
 I'd like to report a serious bug that I have for quite some time now
 with st-git. When I install the git version with sudo make clean
 install on my Arch Linux box it installs fine and I can use it. But as
 soon as I kill X to go back to tty the screen goes blank (or sometimes I
 see the frozen info from my graphics card that comes up when I do startx) 
 and the
 system won't response anymore. All I can do then is hit the reset
 button. Typing systemctl poweroff in st-git does a similar thing and the 
 computer
 won't shut down. This only happens with st-git. With st-0.4.1 everything 
 works fine and I
 can kill X and startx respectively.

 Use git bisect to isolate the commit that introduced the bug.

 Kind regards,
 -Alex




Re: [dev] [st] System freeze when killing X after using st-git

2013-11-26 Thread Ryan O’Hara
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Szilágyi Szilveszter
szilvesz...@gmx.co.uk wrote:
 Hello,

 I use the same environment for 6 months
 and there were no problem at all.

 Szilveszter


Okay, dwm-git, st-git, Arch Linux, MacBook Pro 2012 seems to be what
most people reproduce it on.



Re: [dev] Desktop warping for DWM?

2013-11-14 Thread Ryan O’Hara
For a primarily tiling window manager that encourages the use of a
keyboard over a mouse and uses the concept of tags rather than
multiple desktops… “desktop warping” seems awful.



Re: [dev] Mailing list behavior - was: Question about arg.h

2013-11-07 Thread Ryan O’Hara
 You can type below, it's just a PiTA

Not possible on the JavaScriptless web client.



[dev] [st] Changing system clock backwards disables st

2013-10-26 Thread Ryan O’Hara
When setting the system clock backwards in time (in my particular case,
it was using ntpd -qg), st appears to stop painting for the difference.

(Is it worth dealing with? The last one was 97 seconds, but it’s no
problem at all to just open another terminal.)

Ryan O’Hara