Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Quoth Mate Nagy: Incidentally, the last version of the Web that was any good, and the purpose and function of web pages that are still usable to some degree in this day and age, is still the same - Gopher-like information presentation and gathering. The bastardization that began with HTTP 1.1, HTML 4.0 and CSS ruined the web, and the resulting mess will be unfixable until our civilization is wiped from the face of the earth. The only hope for a bright future in IT is swift death. Amen, Mate. The web is a bad place to inhabit. Although I would say that lynx is now more usable than it was ten years ago (with the exception that many forms don't work without javascript). Granted, this is because people now largely create web pages with Google's robots in mind other than sharing knowledge. So I'd say on an optimistic day I'd say that today's web is slightly more readable, but with significantly less worth reading. Nick P.S. I still have plans for a Gopher hole of my own some day. pgpOGlGbIodP4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Hey, On 17 June 2011 19:02, Mate Nagy mn...@port70.net wrote: PS. gopher owns On 22 June 2011 21:15, Nick suckless-...@njw.me.uk wrote: P.S. I still have plans for a Gopher hole of my own some day. Gopher is an extremely broken protocol, for very different reasons than HTTP. I have plans for a new Gopher-like protocol of my own. (You may say no one would use it, but that's true for Gopher, too.) cls
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
xml is of course even dumber, but not as harmful as html5. I think you only see the bright sides. I learned to live with xml, in the web it seldom bothered me.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Also your rhetoric sucks, I feel no joy hearing these stories about nails and furniture. And you think you can bury it alive? On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 13:40, Uriel ur...@berlinblue.org wrote: HTML5 is great, it is the final nail in the coffin of XML, and that can only be a good thing, of course it will take decades to bury the god damned thing, but it is the beginning of the end.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Maybe he's dracula or something... On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:38, Andrew Hills hills...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:35 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: Also your rhetoric sucks, I feel no joy hearing these stories about nails and furniture. Maybe I'm being insensitive to your culture, but are you sure coffins are furniture? --Andrew Hills
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
I'm not dracula!
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:11 PM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not dracula! Count Orlok then. Way more badass.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
John Carmack: I agree with Microsoft’s assessment that WebGL is a severe security risk. The gfx driver culture is not the culture of security. http://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack/status/81732190949486592 HTML5 is great, it is the final nail in the coffin of XML, and that can only be a good thing, of course it will take decades to bury the god damned thing, but it is the beginning of the end. The web can't be saved, lets at least try to save the future by killing XML as soon as possible. And may ken bless JSON, which has been like a miracle, ironically born of some of the worst web technologies around. uriel On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:00 PM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx They learned their lesson and I want a button for disabling HTML5 in my browser.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
If they only left the web alone I'd be ok with HTML+js applications. The good thing about applications is you don't have to use them. On 19.06.2011, Bjartur Thorlacius svartma...@gmail.com wrote: HTML and JavaScript to be used for applications targeting Windows 8.Discuss.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On 6/19/11, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: The good thing about applications is you don't have to use them. But some of us might have to write them. I do like the idea of Windows applications adhering to an open standard, but I doubt that's what they mean by based on. On a second thought, running applications in a JavaScript VM might nullify the tech-support benefits of making users run *nix systems with powerful, and more importantly familiar CLIs accessible over SSH. WebApps take all the power away from site administrators and give it to distributors.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Bjartur Thorlacius svartma...@gmail.com wrote: WebApps take all the power away from site administrators and give it to distributors. Bingo. --Andrew Hills
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On 6/17/11, Mate Nagy mn...@port70.net wrote: The bastardization that began with HTTP 1.1, HTML 4.0 and CSS ruined the web, and the resulting mess will be unfixable until our civilization is wiped from the face of the earth. The only hope for a bright future in IT is swift death. You're wrong; the bastardization didn't begin with standards. It begun for the same same reason as the the Internet boom: Mosaic, Netscape and their targeting of graphical designers. I want software made for programmers back!
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
HTML and JavaScript to be used for applications targeting Windows 8.Discuss.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
it called afraid, microsoft haz a lot why would the platform with more vulnerabilities talking about that they want to keep with their html5 render engine, witch cost them a lot On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:00 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx They learned their lesson and I want a button for disabling HTML5 in my browser. -- Guilherme Lino
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 2:00 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx From the article: In its current form, WebGL is not a technology Microsoft can endorse from a security perspective. It doesn't sound any worse from a security perspective than any of their other products, which they have no problem endorsing. --Andrew Hills
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:00 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx They learned their lesson and I want a button for disabling HTML5 in my browser. html5 and webgl are not the same thing only one of them is *completely* stupid -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:00:25PM +0200, hiro wrote: http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2011/06/16/webgl-considered-harmful.aspx They learned their lesson and I want a button for disabling HTML5 in my browser. They haven't learned anything. http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Honestly, I think they have a point. Sure, they don't have a leg to stand on in this area, but look at Flash. All that allows is interaction with the mouse and keyboard + video and sound playback, but not a week goes by without yet another exploit being uncovered in it. That could just be because the guys who code flash subcontract out to a few thousand monkeys with typewriters, though. It's a shame they didn't go into more detail, at the moment it could just be FUD spreading.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 04:40:21PM +0100, Rob wrote: It's a shame they didn't go into more detail, at the moment it could just be FUD spreading. https://lwn.net/Articles/444672/?format=printable The comments are also worth reading
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Rob robpill...@gmail.com wrote: Honestly, I think they have a point. Sure, they don't have a leg to stand on in this area, but look at Flash. All that allows is interaction with the mouse and keyboard + video and sound playback, but not a week goes by without yet another exploit being uncovered in it. It also allows access to your hard drive and webcam/mic. Any time you allow web programmers to access any sort of OS component, all hell breaks loose. -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On 06-17 16:40, Rob wrote: Sure, they don't have a leg to stand on in this area Not to defend Microsoft, but we're not in the Ninetees any more. Since Vista, they have invested millions into security and flew in almost every internationally known security researcher to break their stuff. Their software is far from secure (see the monthly patch day), but they might have more critical exposure then some of our free environments, see the Debian SSL debacle.. -- ilf Über 80 Millionen Deutsche benutzen keine Konsole. Klick dich nicht weg! -- Eine Initiative des Bundesamtes für Tastaturbenutzung signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On 17.06.2011, Kurt H Maier karmaf...@gmail.com wrote: html5 and webgl are not the same thing only one of them is *completely* stupid html5 is everything bad we ever had in the web together in one enormous steaming pile of shit. If there is anything not at least 99% stupid in there it must be a very lucky coincidence, just some of thousand random bugs.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:46 PM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: html5 is everything bad we ever had in the web together in one enormous steaming pile of shit. If there is anything not at least 99% stupid in there it must be a very lucky coincidence, just some of thousand random bugs. Not true! html5 frees us from xml bullshit, and most doctype idiocy. -- # Kurt H Maier
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
If I understand it correctly webgl just implements all these stupid html5 features. They never managed 2d in any timely, consistent manner and now they complicate it further with 3d? I want html developers to leave me the fuck alone and get a life.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
Not true! html5 frees us from xml bullshit, and most doctype idiocy. Nope, all xml bullshit is included to be compatible. Just like the fucking Microsoft bugfixes.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
AS a web developer, I'll +1 Kurt on this one. The doctype bullshit is gone, and we now FINALLY have a one version to bind them. XHTML vs HTML is stupid as hell. We finally get a modern, all in one solution that doesn't require the XML bullshit that XHTML 1.0 needs. Granted - there's some shit in there I don't want in there - but I'll just stay away when I'm developing. Let's face it - the web is no longer focused on Gopher-like information presentation and gathering any longer. Live with it.
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 01:55:37PM -0400, Bryan Bennett wrote: Let's face it - the web is no longer focused on Gopher-like information presentation and gathering any longer. Live with it. The Chrome browser source code is 155MB without libraries. Its you and similar people who made the web to be like this. And you seem to like it. With no irony. Incidentally, the last version of the Web that was any good, and the purpose and function of web pages that are still usable to some degree in this day and age, is still the same - Gopher-like information presentation and gathering. The bastardization that began with HTTP 1.1, HTML 4.0 and CSS ruined the web, and the resulting mess will be unfixable until our civilization is wiped from the face of the earth. The only hope for a bright future in IT is swift death. In short, GTFO. With friendship, Mate PS. gopher owns
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
The base problem is simple: The Web is a hammer. It's a nice pretty hammer, but there's a lot of things that aren't nails. Somebody claiming to be Mate Nagy wrote: On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 01:55:37PM -0400, Bryan Bennett wrote: Let's face it - the web is no longer focused on Gopher-like information presentation and gathering any longer. Live with it. The Chrome browser source code is 155MB without libraries. Its you and similar people who made the web to be like this. And you seem to like it. With no irony. Incidentally, the last version of the Web that was any good, and the purpose and function of web pages that are still usable to some degree in this day and age, is still the same - Gopher-like information presentation and gathering. The bastardization that began with HTTP 1.1, HTML 4.0 and CSS ruined the web, and the resulting mess will be unfixable until our civilization is wiped from the face of the earth. The only hope for a bright future in IT is swift death. In short, GTFO. With friendship, Mate PS. gopher owns
Re: [dev] Microsoft considers harmful...
On the other hand with html5 we will finally have a good reason to ditch the web altogether since it won't be good enough any more. I will look into gopher again... As I don't need in-browser video/audio (never understood the html5 webm craze) I use a few scripts for direct playback on on tv and soundcard. There are dedicated downloaders like pyload if I need access to a sharehoster. Also reading mail with dillo in gmail's basic html works great although there haven't been any bugfixes from google for a long time. We'll soon be enough people so we don't loose.
